Ologies with Alie Ward - Herpetology (SNAKES, FROGS, ETC.) with David Steen

Episode Date: January 23, 2018

Sea turtles, frog storms, Indiana Jones trivia, the triumph of will that was Snakes on a Plane, plus dissembling your anti-sneck feelings with Dr. David Steen. Learn more about what makes a herp a herp, the unfortunate etymology behind the ology, and why you'll be a rebel by loving snakes. A great episode for those who want to conquer their fears with science and logic, and also who grew up romping around and turning over logs.Visit davidasteen.com and alongsidewildlifefoundation.orgFollow Dr. Steen on TwitterMore episode sources and linksSupport Ologies on Patreon for as little as a buck a monthOlogiesMerch.com has hats, shirts, pins, totes!Follow @Ologies on Twitter and InstagramFollow @AlieWard on Twitter and InstagramTheme song by Nick Thorburn

Hey, oligites. Hi, Allie Ward in your space. Hi, it's me. So, Herps. Let's talk about it. Herpetology. What is it? Okay, it's the study of amphibians, like nutes and salamanders and all froggies and toads and reptiles, like tortoises and turtles and crocodiles. Also snakes, what? Huh? Don't worry about them. Don't worry about it. Okay, listen, if you're afraid of the s-word, we will address that. We will soothe your fears, for real. But herpetology, generally, it's a lot of different animals. And technically, it's the study of poichelothermic

ectothermic tetrapods. What are those words? Are they words? Yes, okay. I had to look it up, but I'm gonna break it down. Poichelothermic, no idea how that's pronounced, means an animal whose internal temperature varies considerably. Ectothermic is when the regulation of your hot bod depends on external sources, like sunlight or a heated rock surface. Now, a tetrapod means four-legged, although I think of a toad and tell me, tell me those front two-armed arms. Like, toads have hands, right? Am I on drugs? Okay, so herpetology. Okay, what's the etymology here? It's far more brutal than you can even imagine. So, you think herpes and herpetology?

Maybe this was about scales, like scaling it? I had no idea. I was like, skin rashes? Okay, it's more poetic. So, the viral skin conditions, which for fun, we're gonna call Jenny Herpes, cold sores, chicken pox, those come from the herpes virus, which comes from a Greek word, hair, hairpene, which means to creep, like a rash. That's where it comes from. Now, herpetology comes from the Greek hairpane. Same word, to creep. Not really helping this image issue is the fact that when you think of adults who keep lizards in a tank in their garage, like, the word creep may or may not come into play. But once you understand the splendor of green and scaly critters, you'll be like, aw man, I too want a reptile condo in my home.

Now, every time you hear the word creep in this episode, a bell will sound and you can feel free to take a big sip of whatever beverage you're having, or you can do a small inconspicuous dance. Speaking of, let's take a quick break to step into a segment. I like to call creep in your reviews. So, when you rate and subscribe and leave a review on iTunes, it helps get oligies up in the science charts and helps other people find the podcast. Also, I record all my asides in a closet and it really makes my day. So, I read every single one of them and I'm gonna read you a fun one every week. Okay.

BlueDblah said, the format is great, Allie's interjections are awesome, and it makes the podcast unique. Almost like those 90s TV shows where the character is aware of the camera. Okay, another way to support oligies is just tell friends, tweet or Instagram about it. You can make some memes. And on Instagram this week, oligies is giving back. We're doing a giveaway of a full enamel pin set. We've never done a giveaway before. I don't really know how it works. So, we'll see how it goes. So, check out at oligies on Instagram for the details. You can also become a patron. My heart is cheap and I set the Patreon to have the lowest threshold,

I think possible. So, you can support the show for as little as 25 cents an episode. It is statistically feasible that at least one person on earth has 25 cents in loose change, lingering in their butt crack right now. Patrons get their questions first to the oligists. There's also other perks like increased self-esteem. You get my undying non-sexual love. Okay, on to the oligist. So, I was a fan of this doctor on the website Twitter.com for a while, where as alongside Wilde, he enjoys a healthy

22,000 followers. He follows exactly 666 back. I always respected his really swift, kind of somewhat gruff identifications of snakes from these like blurry, probably mid-running away photos that people would send him. People would be like, snake, take a picture and then at him on Twitter. And I thought one day, I want to hang out with this person. I want to ask about his love of snacks and herpes and as fate would have it, I was in Alabama for less than 24 hours shooting Innovation Nation. That's the science show I'm on on CBS every Saturday morning in case you want some

Allie Ward science content that does not involve casual use of the term motherfucker. Anyway, Alabama. So as an associate research professor at Auburn University, he was a local and he agreed to meet me. Where else, folks? But I hampered it in at 8pm after I flew in. Here's the problem. I had been in four states and four time zones so far that day. And a very kind Alabama front desk lady set us up in a conference room. And as I went to record, I realized I didn't have an SD card in my zoom recorder. So I left thisologist alone in the Hampton Inn while I borrowed my producer's rental car.

I sped to a Best Buy. I purchased a 64 gig SD card. I should be covered. Then I came back to Hampton Inn only to realize that zooms inexplicably only take up to 32 gig cards. I don't know why. So at this point, I left this herpetologist again. Now 9pm in this Hampton Inn conference room in Kitchenette to recklessly drive to the Best Buy. Again, at this point, I requested that he set a timer to see if I could make it back in under 15 minutes. I thought, let's make a game of this. At this point, he can only assume I'm clinically insane or a truly ineffectual murderer. So hustling round two, I made it in 13 minutes. So by the time we actually recorded this episode, we had the rapport of two people who had been stranded on the island

in a slapstick movie from the 1930s. It's one of my favorite interviews ever. I love it. We address turtles, snake IDs, the fear of snakes, tools for herping. Why Bjork is a lot like a cave salamander, nudists, frog storms. A lot of behind the scenes Indiana Jones trivia, the ethics of hunting and conservation biology. It's great. So get ready to let herps into your heart with polyologist and herpetologist Dr. David Steen. Please record. Okay, dude, it looks like this is recording. This is a really big victory. Okay, I'm in it. Get your levels. You are a soft, spoken person.

I can turn it up a little bit if I need to. I would get uncomfortably close to the microphone. These are like stand up comedian microphones. So they expect you to be up in their business. Right. So I think my internet's up and running. I mean, I feel like I should just burn sage around myself. What kind ofologist do you identify with? Like an ecologist, a wildlife biologist, a herpetologist? What do you call yourself?

Well, I've certainly been called worse than any of those things. It depends on who I'm talking to. In general, I like to think of myself as a wildlife ecologist and conservation biologist. So I study how wildlife interact with other species and their surroundings. But most of the work that I do relates to amphibians and reptiles. And that's where the herpetology comes in. So are you a herpetologist? Yeah, we can go with that.

OK. Yeah, I study amphibians and reptiles. So yeah, I think it would be accurate to call me a herpetologist. I became aware of you on Twitter because you're like fire when it comes to snake IDs. Like someone will send you the Sasquatch equivalent of like it looks like a rope from half of football field away and you're like, oh, that's a copperheaded. Like, how do you know? How did you get so good at that? Well, I like to think that it's kind of like how you recognize friends and family.

You're not necessarily. It's true, though. You're not necessarily looking at the length of someone's mustache or the color of their eyebrows. You're just you just recognize them. And I think that is how I see the snakes. So you don't necessarily have to. Well, I don't necessarily have to look at for those really specific features.

It's just an overall feel. So it's like if someone's like, who's this? And you're like, that's Angie on it. Like it's just boom. That's exactly right. And that's why it makes it hard to answer the questions when people say, well, how can you tell it's this and not this? And because it isn't, you know, so it's and I don't want to make people think

that that's how I identify snakes, because there's always exceptions. How many books about snakes did have you read and when did you start reading them? I've read 46 books about snakes, but the night is young. So you started them this morning. That's right. I don't know. I do have a lot of reference books growing up. I like to learn about the creatures around me.

And so between 50 and 100 books, something like that. Did you start young? Did you start getting amphibian and reptile books when you were a kid for like every occasion? Yeah, I have always been interested in creepy crawly things and like to spend times in streams and looking under rocks and things like that. So my family was very supportive and I was inundated with all the reptile and amphibian toys and books that I could imagine.

I started with dinosaurs, but it evolved. Where exactly were you raised from New York? And I spent most of my life there. What part of New York? Well, it's when I say New York, people often imagine the city and I actually lived in Orange County, New York, which is about 45 minutes away from the city. It's surprisingly rural. It's near Bear Mountain State Park and Surling Forest.

We had bears, Timberattle snakes, you name it. So it was a fun place to be. When you were growing up, did your parents just let you loose? Were you like a free range child? Like go out, don't get caught in some barbed wire, go look at stuff. Or were you like an indoor kid reading books? I think that's a little bit of both. It was definitely a different era.

And I remember people talk about watching stranger things and how the kids can just wander off and have fun and catch frogs. And so there was definitely a lot of that. Side note, a few years ago, some research came out that kids are not any less safe than they were a few decades ago. In fact, crime in America peaked in the early 1990s and has been going steadily down since. There was an article in the Washington Post called

there's never been a safer time to be a kid in America and it has stats and graphs on the following crime rates. So why is helicopter parenting on the rise? Well, one 2016 study claimed that Americans fear of crime is statistically related to the level of violence portrayed on prime time TV. And another study tracked that the less satisfied we are with the government, the more likely we are to misjudge and inflate danger. So I don't have kids.

If I had a dog, I would probably put it in a papoose and it would never be more than a meter away from me. But the website, free range kids dot com seems to make a case for just chilling out and letting your children romp off leash. I don't know, up to you. And they could also just read a book. But I was also kind of a bookworm. So a little bit of both.

Just sitting by a stream, reading a book about snakes, looking for snakes. Sounds pretty nice, right? This is my life. Now, how long have you been in Alabama? Because we're in a Hampton in conference room in Opelika, Opelika. Opelika. Pardon me, Alabama. So how how how long has a New York guy been in Alabama? I've been in the South since 2004, but they say it doesn't matter how long.

I'm down here. I'll always be a Yankee. I'm OK with that. Are the snakes better in New York or Alabama? See, I don't really want to offend anybody or piss anybody off. And that's really kind of a controversial statement. But New York doesn't have as many snakes, but they've got some cool ones like Timber Rattle snakes and they're rare up there. We've got Timber Rattle snakes down here, too.

But they're kind of a diamond dozen. They show up right in town, actually, much to everybody's dismay. As a born and bred West Coaster, I know nothing about Timber Rattlers. Nothing. But I found out they're potentially one of the most dangerous snakes in North America because they're big. They have a lot of venom. They are also relatively chill as hell. And they warn you a bunch before they strike.

They're like, come on, man, come on, rattle, rattle. So they give you fair warning. They're also kind of famous as a symbol of American anger and resolve. So in the 1700s, all these European doctors came to the US and they were like, my heavens, these slinky beasts are no match for my shitty cures. So they were so badass, we started to envision ourselves as Timber snakes. Benjamin Franklin, who is noted in the ornithology episode for throwing shade at garbage eating bald eagles, was pro-herb.

Listen to this in 1775, he wrote about Timber snakes. She has no eyelids. She may therefore be esteemed an emblem of vigilance. OK, well, she just doesn't have eyelids. She never wounds till she is generously given notice even to her enemy. Was I wrong, sir, in thinking this a strong picture of the temper and conduct of America, your hero, a Timber rattlesnake? You know, don't tread on me flag that you've been seeing the last decade or so.

That has a name. It's called the Gadsden flag and the Tea Party adopted it in 2009 as kind of a GOP symbol. So it has these indignant Republican connotations now. But the poor Timber snake, because on these posters and flags, there's usually just horrendously rendered coiling. And this snake always looks like a shit emoji to me, which is like, don't tread on me indeed.

Now, more on why you should not be afraid of snakes later in the episode. Trust me. Do you get more frantic texts and tweets at different times of the year? Like, do you know, like, OK, it's rattlesnake season, like I'm getting a lot of what is it? Yeah. Yeah. And it is pretty interesting to look for those kinds of trends in the spring. All the snakes, many of the snakes are going to be coming out of hibernation,

so they're going to be basking and looking for food. That's when a lot of people see them in the fall. It's when the vipers are looking for mates, so they're going to be moving around more. People are going to see them then late summer. That's when the babies hatch or are born. And so you get tons of requests to identify babies. So dead of winter is kind of like a quiet snake time. Yeah, that's this is my downtime.

That's why I can talk and I'm not identifying lots of snakes right now. Again, how I was able to sequester him for hours in a Hampton Inn. Well, why are people so freaked out by snakes, reptiles, amphibians? I personally, I'm down with them. I'm totally fine with them, but I have a certain brother-in-law. I'm not going to mention him by name. OK, I talked to my sister Celeste and I can tell you a little more. So my brother-in-law is a professional heavy metal guitarist.

Like he travels all over the world. That is his job. He has hair down to his waist. He wears all black. He plays a flying V guitar. And I have seen him flip off amphitheaters much to the crowds. Glee, you do not mess with dudes like this. You just don't. But when it comes to snakes, the dude just cannot even.

He is like a wonderful brother-in-law. He's a great person. And I find this to be his most endearing characteristic. He hates them. And I asked about this. My sister texted me. I believe he once walked off a photo shoot solely at the idea a snake could be there. He is a very tough looking person, but he can't even see one on TV.

Why are some people freaked out by them? Like, have you found? Yeah, we don't have the answer for that, but it's definitely the case. Believe it or not, you're not the first person to tell me that you know somebody that's scared of snakes. Yeah, shocking. Yeah, it is really common and there are some folks that point to research that say babies have this innate ability to recognize snakes.

And that suggests that we have this. We're born with this fear. And I'm not entirely convinced of those arguments. I think that we may have this innate ability to recognize snakes and react to them. But society helps push that. Initial reaction into fear, ask anybody that does educational shows with snakes and you could see the kids running up. They want to touch it.

They want to feel it. They want to ask questions about it. And in the back of the room, their parents are really scared. And then eventually the kids see the parents and they get scared too. So. So I think it's largely society that influences something biological in us. Maybe it's maybe it's biblical lore. Maybe it's just like, oh, yeah, I've heard of these guys. They're troublemakers, man.

For you know what, I'm going to have to put on underpants. It's just going to be a downward spiral. So if you have children and you're afraid of snakes, you should bury your emotions and appear as though you're not bothered. Yeah, I think it's I think it's well, parenting is not my expertise. But I think that it's important to let kids explore their curiosity and not get caught up in what you might be scared of. Have you had any reptiles or amphibians or other wild life type of things as pets?

Yeah, growing up, I would catch everything that I could and then hide it in tanks in the basement. And, you know, beg my parents to buy me whatever was crawling around at the pet store too. So I did have a lot of lizards and snakes and fish and salamanders and things like that. I was allowed to catch things from the wild, but I had to let them go in two weeks. That was the compromise. You had a fortnight clause. Exactly. It was like, after one fortnight, the beast shall be returned to the forest or you turn into one.

Do you have a do you have a favorite animal? I'm sorry, that's such a dumb question. I don't care. Well, I get asked it a lot, so you think I have an answer ready. I kind of like. I like them overall. I like how they're interacting with each other. I like that each species that we know today has these unique look and these unique strategies and just fit into the biodiversity puzzle in a different way.

Um, there's something about Eastern Diamondback rattlesnakes, which are just really impressive. They're just they're the largest rattlesnake in the world. They're only found in the Southeast and the United States, and they just have this quiet power and dignity about them. So it's so dignity. Is it are there any just snakes or just clowns, like just like the just idiots? So I guess I would think of the Hognose snake and it has all these strategies for not getting eaten, basically.

It's going to play dead. It's going to pick up its last meal. It's going to. What's the language on this? Oh, you can say whatever it should all over itself and you if you try to catch it. So I guess I, you know, these are all great strategies for not getting eaten, but they do kind of make them seem a little silly. So Hognose snake down a clown.

Good to know. That's right. So did you always want to do this? Or at what point did you decide I'm going to be a scientist who studies wildlife? Or did it kind of evolve where all of a sudden you were like, oh, whoa, I looked up and here I am. I guess I'm doing this. I've always been interested in creatures.

And if you had asked me in second grade what I wanted to be when I grew up, I'd say a naturalist didn't really know what that meant. But I liked nature. And so naturalists sounded good. Quick aside, a naturalist is not to be confused with naturest, which is a person who subscribes to the notion that we should be nude more around each other and sometimes in public. I don't know.

For more information, Wikipedia, natureism, where you can read up on the nuances of the philosophy, you can also scroll through a gallery of nude people at festivals in pools, enjoying a barbecue in nothing but sneakers. So back to naturalists who like wildlife, which is also usually nude and sometimes just as hairy over time that evolved into zoology and wildlife management. And that's what I went to school for.

Stupid question. I don't care. I love them. OK. Do you have any favorite movies or television shows or least favorite ones about about reptiles and amphibians where you're like, they got it wrong or you're like, you know what, you nailed it. Well, there's there's only some. OK, so everybody wants to know about Snakes on a Plane, right? Right. I'm here to tell you I've never seen it.

You've never seen that movie too close to home. I think I've gotten the gist of it. Right. Snakes on a plane. Right. Scary. Snakes on a plane, by the way, was written by a first time Hollywood screenwriter. Shocking. And it was originally titled Venom. It was turned down by more than 30 studios before it was finally made. And it now enjoys a fresh rating of 69 percent on Rotten Tomatoes, which seems like the perfect amount.

But but it's fun. Anaconda is another movie. I have seen that one. And, you know, I can just kind of turn off the biologist side of my brain if I'm watching something that's clearly entertainment. On the other hand, sometimes people get their information about biology and snakes from movies. And I don't think anybody's looking to Snakes on a plane

to get their biology facts. So I'm OK with how outlandish it is. But, you know, something like the Jungle Book or Jurassic Park and things like that. People take that kind of information and then that becomes what they know about biology. So I'm a little harder on those kinds of movies and TV shows. You did you like the documentary Jumanji? The original or the remake?

I've never seen Jumanji. I think there's animals in it. What about what about the scene where it rains frogs in Magnolia? Were you like that would never happen? So it has happened. Oh, it did happen. That has happened before. What? Yeah. So tell me everything.

Also, I'm so sorry if I just spoiled the ending of Magnolia. Oh, yeah, I don't know if I've seen it. OK, what happens in that one? It rains frogs. OK, it's fine. That's the big reveal at the end. There's an emotional journey on the way there that's that's worth having. So many frogs are breeding in these shallow, temporary wetlands. And if a big storm comes through, it could suck up that moisture

and frogs in the process. What? Sure. I mean, you can imagine a tornado doing it. So maybe it'll be a step down from that. So it's like a sharknado, but a rainstorm of frogs. It's exactly like a frognado. So how many frogs are we talking? Like, how long does it like, oh, 10 frogs fell out of the sky?

Or are we talking like, I got to look into this. First off, I'm sorry I gave away that scene from Magnolia, but you have had 19 years to see it. So my apology is really just a formality and quite hollow. Also, frog storms are indeed a thing as are fish storms, spider storms, toad storms and worm storms. They think maybe a tornado like water spout sucks them up and carries them and then rains them back down.

Now, according to the Wikipedia page entry entitled Rain of Animals, quote, several witnesses of raining frogs describe the animals as startled, but healthy and exhibiting relatively normal behavior shortly after the event. That's the good news. The bad news is there are examples where the product of the rain is not intact animals, but shredded body parts, which is a real bummer. I found this very stoke account on YouTube by a user called The Second Fleet from 2007. It shows a paved path dotted with sadly smashed frogs.

So whatever kind of day you're having, if toad arms and they are arms didn't land on your umbrella, it's a good day for all of us. These are kind of the things of legend, but there are reliable accounts of them. I'm going to ask you some rapid fire questions because we have so many questions. These are from listeners. I'm going to start with the Patreons because they are paying to support the podcast. So if you're not a patron, love them. Essentially, you can get your question bumped to the top.

So it's very worth it, right? But before we take questions from you, our beloved listeners, we're going to take a quick break for sponsors of the show. Sponsors, why sponsors? You know what they do? They help us give money to different charities every week. So if you want to know where Allergies gives our money, you can go to alleyword.com and look for the tab, Allergies Gives Back.

There's like 150 different charities that we've given to already with more every single week. So if you need a place to go donate a little bit of money, but you're not sure where to go, those are all picked by Allergists who work in those fields. And this ad break allows us to give a ton of money to them. So thanks for listening and thanks sponsors. OK, your questions. Now let me clarify, you're going to be yelling these questions very quickly. Am I also supposed to be answering them immediately?

If you can. Briefly. Right. OK. I'll be screaming at you through a bullhorn. And you have four seconds to answer each one. That's not true. OK, but we do.

We have a lot of questions. So OK, you ready? Alex Introni wants to know, are snakes just getting a bad rap, i.e. the Garden of Eden, or are they really a bunch of sneaky dicks? So snakes are really hard to find. They're always hiding, but I don't really think of them as sneaky. I think of them as scared. I mean, they do not want to be found.

So that's how I'd probably put a spin on that. Oh, so they're just defensive. They're just exactly me alone. Yeah, they don't want to sneak up on you. They do not want to be seen by you. OK, snakes, not sneaky. Cool. You heard it here first.

Late Night Pie wants to know, what allows amphibians to live in a hybrid environment of water slash land? Do they breathe air or water? And also, if you had to kiss a frog, what kind would you pick? Yeah, that covers a lot of territory there. It really does. So amphibians are a really diverse group, but the classic example is the frog that lives on land.

It goes in water, lays its eggs, then it's a tadpole, then it turns into a frog. And that's that's the classic amphibian life cycle. But there's a lot of exceptions. There's a lot of salamanders that never leave the water. Some frogs lay their eggs on leaves and they drop into the water. So lots of different strategies. Many have gills and that helps them breathe in the water. They also have semi permeable skin, which helps them do some respiration

through that and others have lungs and some have both over the course of their life. So it varies. Yes. Axolotls have cool ass gills, though. They just hang on to them. They look like they look like Vegas showgirl fans a little bit. Yeah. Now that you mention that, that's true. So an axolotl is a kind of salamander. It lives exclusively in a few lakes in Mexico and it retains these baby characteristics, like these external gills, which look so much like one of

Cher's fantastic feather fan headdresses from the 80s. I would also like to apologize to Slovenian cave alms, which are different than axolotls, but they still have baby gills and they look like their long lost siblings. So they're one of the unique examples that they never really grow up. The technical term is paid a morph and they retain their juvenile characteristics, in this case, an aquatic life style on gills for their whole life. Is that also called neoteny? Is that something else? Is that only in breeding?

Yeah, let's see. The the pain of morph, I think, is retaining the juvenile characteristics. Neoteny, I don't remember what the difference is. Maybe that's with breeding. So neoteny, that retaining of those juvenile traits happens both in nature and in like the selective breeding that domesticated wolves into dogs, which are a lot like puppy wolves. Also, humans are an example of neoteny.

I did not know that and the retention of juvenile traits in us may have helped us develop better communication with each other. They're not sure. Also, it makes us look cute like a baby. I always feel like one human being who has retained juvenile characteristics is Bjork. I always feel like she's just like a wonder. What about if you had to kiss a frog, what kind would you pick? Is this going to be some poisonous frog that's going to get you lit?

I don't know how to get consent from a frog. I'm just going to let it go on its way. Good answer. Nicholas Smith wants to know, what was the last snake to have legs? Yeah, that's a pretty cool question because the general idea is that they all used to be lizards and then a group of animals kind of branched off, lost their legs and became snakes. So when does one of these animals stop being lizard and start being a snake?

That's kind of hard to say, but we do have fossils to look at. Some snakes today still have these little remnants of legs, like the boas and the pythons. Yeah, they have these little vestigial limbs on the back. They got nubbins. They got nubbin legs. Yep. What? Can you go there to go there little nubbins?

You could, yeah, as a matter of fact. And it's, you know, there's lizards that don't have legs and there's those snakes that have the little nubbin. So, you know, nature is really messy. I did not know that. Um, that's pretty exciting. I'm excited. Right. That's pretty dope. I had no idea.

Um, Russell Kelly wants to know what's the biggest thing an anaconda can eat? So lots of people are being, lots of people are scared of being eaten by an anaconda. There's no real reliable records of that happening. However, they can take large things like deer and pigs and maybe a small taper or Cayman, which is the alligator relative that lives down in South America. And humans? You know, I wouldn't say it's impossible,

but it's not something that I spend too much time worrying about. Right. I feel like there's always disgusting photos on the internet. You can find a few were to look for them. Yeah, that's mostly pythons from Southeast Asia. We're talking about people being eaten by snakes. It doesn't happen often, but when it does happen, it tends to be in Southeast Asia. Why is that?

The snakes are big and the people are small. OK. So it's a, all right, so it's a ratio. All right, Priscilla Raymond wants to know living in Australia, we have many deadly snakes. I know when you see one, you need to stand still. However, I hear that the tiger snake is aggressive. Should I stand still or poo my pants and run?

And if I come across one of these bad boys, what should I do? You know, if someone asks you, should I poo my pants? Who's going to say no? The answer is always yes. Yes, do that. You know, a little respect because it goes a long way when it comes to dealing with snakes, even the potentially dangerous ones, you know,

give them your space, their space and don't try and catch them. And that will cut down your risk significantly. People think of snakes as aggressive. I think of them more as defensive. They're kind of responding to a threat. And so if you don't threaten them, you're probably going to be OK. Right, like they're not out there hunting for humans.

No, what is it a little snake have to gain by going after and starting a fight with somebody that's a hundred times larger. Right. So they're just like, stay out of my space. Yeah, you know, and if you threaten some species and some scenarios, it's going to, you know, bluff or come towards you a little bit. And that can be perceived as aggressive. But again, it's because it was scared. Not not a listener question.

But have you ever been bitten by a snake with like with fangs? Oh, a fang to snake. What is a fang anyway? I mean a viper, a pit viper. So pit vipers are called that because they have these heat sensing pit organs on either side of their head near the nostrils. So they have a sixth sense that use infrared detectors to seek heat. How baller is that?

And now here's some quick stats to banish your snake fears for good. You ready? Just here's some get real facts. These are taken from Dr. David Steen's website in the United States. Seven to eight thousand recorded venomous snake bites a year happen. On average, only about five result in death. He says this includes all the drunk knuckleheads that are showing off with a snake they caught. It includes all the people at rattlesnake roundups, holding rattlesnakes

and letting them strike at their boots. It includes all the religious snake handlers proving their faith. It includes the people who keep venomous snakes as pets. It includes all the wildlife researchers who handle live rattlesnakes as part of their job. It includes the pest control workers that remove venomous snakes from their hiding places. It includes all the Steve Irwin wannabes that harass venomous snakes. For no particular reason.

It includes the people who work with rattlesnakes to extract their venom every day. And it includes all the people who use shovels and other hand tools to kill snakes in their yard, all of that five people a year die. He says you can dramatically decrease your chances of being bitten by a venomous snake by promising not to be any of those people. So I know sometimes we feel afraid of snakes. Some studies have shown that children and babies aren't innately that afraid of snakes. It's really watching the parents' reactions to snakes that ingrains that fear in us.

So don't waste your energy on being afraid of snakes. It's more likely that a falling TV will kill you as it does to about 100 Americans a year. Snakes are terrified of you. They just want to eat rats in peace. So you have better things to worry about and better ways to stay alive. Honestly, by putting your phone down and not having a TV topple on you. Now, has David, who is a professional herper and snake identifier, has he ever been bitten by a pit viper?

No, I haven't. I've been bitten by many nonvenomous snakes, many, many, many. But I'm really careful around venomous snakes. And to the point when people come and see me work, they're pretty bored because they grew up, I mean, they grew up watching the TV and you're dancing around, you're flicking these snakes around. That's not how I do it. And I've got all my fingers still, fortunately, because of that.

What is that hook called that looks like the thing that you turn the sprinklers on but you're handling deadly snakes with it? What do I call? Sure, you can have a snake hook, which has a little bit more of a curve at the end of it. And there's also what's called a stump ripper, which is a little. We got to come up with these fancy names for these things, right? A stump ripper. It's better than just a stick. Yeah, I mean, they're basically all just golf clubs, but that's not fun to say.

And the stump rippers are a little sturdier and you can use that for flipping over logs and things like that, which is where many snakes like to hang out. Oh, so that's sort of just like a that's like an all access pass to the under the log. Exactly. Got it. And there's a lot of variations. You can buy snake hooks of different size. You can buy them that retract so you can travel with them.

There's a there's a company out in Denver, Colorado. They put all kinds of emblems and stuff on them. So this is kind of gear for herpetologists. I looked and I found this one place live trap.com that had an absolute glut of raccoon traps and stump rippers and snake hooks. Man, and they have a registry, which I imagine either causes a lot of friction among newly engaged couples or snakey people find their soulmates.

And that warms my heart. How many snake hooks do you have? I've one snake hook. OK, is it your favorite? Are you like this is OK? I could upgrade. Look, when you're a pro like me, you don't need all the accessories and all the gimmicks.

You just give me my standard snake hook. This was this was your big opportunity to get a shout out or a sponsorship from like like those platinum, those gold crystal studded snake hooks. Never crack. Yeah, like a fine Italian snake hook. OK, Mike Melchior wants to know, have you ever been to Snake Island? I don't know if that is a euphemism. Snake Island, he's referring or she is referring to a snake

an island that's off of Brazil. There's a ton of these venomous snakes that there's these papers. They're really high densities. Every once in a while, there's a show about some expedition looking for treasure or snakes there. I've never been there. OK, there are a few good documentaries on Snake Island. One's on National Geographic.

It features this very god-voiced narrator detailing the tension between a snake and a bird. And then there's another full length documentary put out by Vice, wherein this affable white guy who looks like your friend's boyfriend, who's on an improv team, goes to Brazil and says things like, I'm going fucking crazy because we're sleeping on an island full of snakes. Pretty sure I'm going to die.

And then he interviews masked bio pirates who catch and smuggle the snakes. Tonally, both of the programs have an underlying whoa, that's a lot of snakes, man, vibe. Would you want to go there? That would be pretty cool. OK. So like, if you want a trip to Snake Island, you'd be like, oh, heck, yes. Wait, is that do I? I don't know.

I wish that I could give that as a parting gift, like, and, you know, a like single one way trip to Snake Island. You're banished. That would be like literal hell on earth for some people, and it would be like your heaven. Yeah, I mean, I could I could be a little bit more creative if I'm going to describe heaven, but I'd have fun. OK, there's also snow cone machines there, and it never gets too hot.

Hey, you know what? I had 13 minutes to explore this room on the storage in there. There's a freezer in there. It's full of ice cream. Is it really? And hot pockets. I am. Are you kidding me? Oh, dang, I left for 13 minutes.

I might take a hot pocket on the way to charge into the room. I'm a baller. OK, John Worcester wants to know, what is the coldest climate that a snake is able to live in? Yeah, snakes are pretty adaptable, and you can find them pretty far north. There's Adders, it's a kind of viper in Europe. They're in Scandinavia. What? Yep, northern Russia.

And over here in North America, you can have garter snakes all the way up through Canada, not through Canada, but through much of it. And it's all about strategies. You know, the viper in Europe. It's going to be underground for most of the year, and then it warms up for a couple of months, and then it gets really busy, you know, figuratively and literally in just that brief window. Garter snakes, they also have a relatively small window,

but they need to find these really unique areas to spend the winter. That's why you're going to see them congregating in some areas, like the snake pits and Narcisse. These are limestone caves, basically, that go below the freezing level. And in the fall, they're all congregating in the spring. They're all emerging tens of thousands of snakes. Pretty cool. Was there a scene in Indiana Jones where he falls into a pit of snakes? Yes, that was kind of a less natural situation.

But yeah, I think you can hear things rattling and hissing, and they're all harmless snakes. When you see a snake pit, is it a video of a snake pit? Have you ever seen one in real life? I did go to the Narcisse snake pits, and that was pretty cool. Well, did it just look like like Bonnaroo for snakes? Like it was just like so many snakes, you couldn't even see who was. Yeah. More like, what's those hedonism resorts?

It was kind of like that for snakes. Like like a burning man, like snake, like snake burning man. If you say so, I've never been. Everyone just nude and just who's doing wow. I didn't I didn't know, you know. OK, because again, my family's from Montana and one of them posted some video of a bunch of rattlesnakes all in a den. And it was so fascinating to watch.

Like, do you spend time looking at videos online of a weird stuff? Too much time. Really? What's your favorite hashtag? What's what's the one that you use the most? Not a copperhead. Right. Not a cottonmouth. Yeah, I started doing that because people are finding snakes and, you know, I'll just, you know, 90 percent of the snakes people see, they think it's venomous

and often it's a copperhead. And so I just wanted to highlight how often people make that mistake. And so, yeah, check that one out. Would you say that the best way to check really quick on whether or not a snake is is venomous is just to look for the triangle shaped head. So it gets back to what we were talking about earlier in that I don't emphasize tips or tricks or specific features because there's always exceptions. And many harmless snakes, actually, when they're feeling defensive,

they will make their head look like a triangle. So a lot of snakes have made a really critical error in making themselves look venomous. So it's just kind of an overall feel. And once you start getting comfortable with the snakes, you'll you'll be able to identify them quickly. So you just got to read more books on snakes. Yeah, I mean, it's not satisfying like, hey, how do I learn snakes?

Well, read books. Jenna Erickson wants to know, is there such a thing as a snuggly snake? Have you encountered one? Yeah, so I was doing an outreach event just on Friday, as a matter of fact. And I had this huge black pine snake and it was cold out. And the snake, you know, we used to call them cold blooded, but ectothermic is the technical term. It was cold.

It wanted to warm up. And so it wrapped itself around my neck and that's where it hung out. So that was kind of a cuddly snake. Just getting up in there. Exactly. It was a little snake scarf. It was a big one, but yeah. How many pounds did it weigh? Oh, well. Or how many feet?

How do you how do you quantify a snake? When you say I saw a big snake, do you say it was like this big, this long, weighed this much? Yeah, they always weigh less than people expect. So I generally generally go with length because that's more impressive. It was five or six feet. What's a big snake? Yeah, it was. That's quite a scarf.

It's quite a statement. Thank you. Bonnie Dutch, who is amazing. She designs a lot of the merch that we have on on the site. I need to get some. I know. I'll hook you up. Bonnie wants to know, can all different snake breeds be friends? She said, we used to play in a sunny hill covered in snakes as kids. What?

And there would be all colors and sizes. All chilling together in the sun. She said it was like the sun was their God and the hill was church. So she asked, was there no fighting in church? Are they just cool all the time? I would have loved to see this scene. It sounds really cool. So snakes are a really diverse group.

Some will eat each other. Some will spend the winter together because they're limited by those unique places where they can escape the cold. So, yeah, some are friends, some are food. I'm using friends, not literally. Right. But they they can spend time with each other for sure. I didn't know that.

I figured that they'd be like, I'm the snake on the scene. Please remove yourself from my orbit. So that would be something we associate with a territorial animal. And there's really limited evidence that snakes are territorial. Oh, so they're nicer than we've given them credit for. That's what I keep trying to tell everybody. Um, let's see. Coralina Ludden wants to know, what is the appeal of having a snake as a pet?

What do you do with them? She said, I'm not into them, but I want to understand. Well, thank you for, you know, wanting to put yourself in other people's shoes. That's that's admirable, right? I don't have any snakes as pets, but they're beautiful. They're low maintenance. They don't smell. They're not going to be barking.

So kind of the perfect pet and they eat like once every couple of weeks, right? Yeah, really easy. Yeah, it's fine. Emily, Georgia wants to know, where does the scary noodles, body and and the tail begin, or is it just a tail with eyes? I mean, it's actually just a neck with eyes. So the tail. Technically, it's going to start. At the cloaca, and I know that listeners already know what the cloaca is from

your interview a couple of weeks ago. So if you're not familiar with cloacas, go back, take a listen to the ornithology episode where you will learn everything you need to know about all purpose orifices that are reptile and bird buttholes. Yeah, it's it's not the tail is not a big portion of the body. It's like the last eighth. So it's sub cloaca. Exactly. Oh, that's good to know.

Posterior to the cloaca. Posterior cloaca. That sounds like a really awesome neighborhood in Brooklyn. I live in posterior cloaca. We've like really good brunch spots. OK. Oh, Sam Gottfriedsen says, what are the mechanisms that cause a snake to bite even after it's dead? Nerves. OK.

Yeah, if an animal gets hit by a car or is killed suddenly, it still might have some nerves firing and that could cause the mouth to close. Jocelyn Furness has a very important question. Can snakes fart? Who asked this question? Jocelyn Furness, but Jenna Erickson also wanted to know the answer. OK, do you know about this book called Does It Fart? No, I don't.

I feel like this person knows about it because it was last year or so. Somebody asked me if snakes fart and people ask that to me, not infrequently. So I said, Si, yes, they do. And that started a hashtag, Does It Fart and Nick Caruso and Danny Rabilodi, I'm sorry if I mispronounce your name, compiled all the answers and wrote a book, Does It Fart? What? Yeah. And they should give me a cut after I just plugged their book.

So were you partly one of the things that precipitated this to exist? I really can't take credit for it. I did answer a question on the topic and they they ran with it. Oh, my God, this is history. This is like when you find out like who was at the signing of the Declaration of Independence and the background, like this is so exciting. This is bigger than that. This is bigger than that.

Kate Gilmore, who is our primatologist on episode two, wants to know, why do some lay eggs and some give birth to live young? It's such an interesting phenomenon and it's kind of a quirk of evolution. And so because this is a rapid fire segment, I can't really get into, you know, the details of it. But the general idea is that egg laying was probably the ancestral condition. That's what the animal in the beginning had. And then live birth evolved from that.

But it hasn't been directly. There's they've been going back and forth. There's different kinds of egg laying and live birth. So evolution. OK. Yeah. What are the advantages of live birth? So you can let's see. The eggs are really good because you've got this really climate controlled little spot, but the live birth, you know, they're ready to go.

They're not as vulnerable to predation. So that would probably be a big benefit. They can outrun whatever. Yeah, they can start biting stuff. They're ready to go. They hit the ground, biting. Good for them. Yeah. And in stable climates, it might be an advantage

because you don't necessarily need that enclosed space in the neck. I always think, again, Indiana Jones at live. You know what I mean? Well, all of my snake, all of my reptile knowledge, apparently, is for Harris and Ford movies. Well, I'm going to blow your mind because many of the animals in that scene were actually legless lizards. What? Yeah.

Whoa, whoa, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, OK, wait. What? All right. OK, I took a dive into the snake pit of info and oh, man. He was right. OK, for the most part. Now, there's a scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark where Indy and Marion have to escape the Well of Souls, which is a snake-filled underground bunker. Take this.

Wave it at anything that slithers. Oh, my God, this whole place is slithering. Turns out most of the snakes in the Well of Souls weren't actually snakes at all, but legless lizards, which have visible ear holes, which snakes don't have. OK, why? Why did they put legless lizards in there? Well, 3,000 snakes were ordered months in advance, but the production crew laid out all the snakes

and they discovered that 3,000 was nowhere near enough to blanket the set in their snake-covered dystopia. So another 7,000 snakes were procured for a total of 10,000 snakes. But a bunch of those, they had to get a bunch of legless lizards in a pinch. So Indy and Marion in it are swinging torches around and apparently filming with a nightmare because these ectotherms weren't afraid of fire and they actually tried to get closer to the flames to warm themselves.

They just could not take direction. I'm sorry. Why did they do that? OK, we got this a little mixed up. I thought David was talking about another a phideophobic, that's fear of snakes, seen at a dinner in Temple of Doom where a snake is slit and a bunch of alive snakes tumble out.

So it turns out that dish is called Coiled Wrigleys, aka Snake Surprise. And according to this Indiana Jones fan page, it was live baby eels stuffed inside a moist boa constrictor. So the eels were also not snakes. And don't worry, this dish does not appear to be real. It is a fictitious menu item anyway. But Indiana Jones eels in one movie, legless lizards in another.

Maybe they were I got a good deal. You can tell the difference if you look at them. Well, you could tell the difference. I mean, I could I tell the difference? Shape of the head. Yeah. OK. Yeah. Oh, I'm going to look into this. So here's the way you tell the difference between a snake and a legless lizard.

You have a staring contest with it. And sometimes you'll beat the lizard because they have eyelids and the snakes do not. Oh, my God. Daniel Laveneris. I'm sorry, Daniel. I'm probably pronouncing that wrong, who is awesome. He asks from flattened out ribs to glide to tail scales that look like a spider

to lure birds and worm like appearances to feed on ant larva larvae. Snakes are awesome. But which is the most awesome adaptation you've seen? The most awesome adaptation is just the fact. Look, imagine you had to survive in the woods with no arms and no legs. How how long would you last? Oh, yeah, no, I'd be toast. Yeah, this is.

But all these different kinds of snakes have figured out a way to make it work. And so I think that's that's my answer. Just the fact that they are. Yeah. Yeah. And it worked for them. You know, they lost their limbs probably because it's easier to move underground. But somehow they've figured out all these amazing ways to get by, whether it's constricting their prey or this modified saliva that's basically venom or things like indigo snakes,

which are just grabbing other snakes and chewing their head. I mean, you do you do what you got to do. If a snake gets bitten by another snake, is it like a nice try, dude? Or is it like, oh, you got me with my own tactic? Never saw it coming. I mean, are they immune to their own venom? No, they're not immune. And, you know, so when snakes are storing their venom,

they're in these specialized glands. But if another snake were to bite a snake and it gets into their bloodstream, they they would see effects from that. Wow, they'd be like, why are you going to do me like this? I thought we were friends. I thought we covered that. Man. Aaron Talbert, hi, Aaron wants to know, is it true that rattlesnakes are starting to evolve and become much more sneaky

because they're using their rattles less? This is one of the things that I hear a lot and it makes sense, but there isn't really evidence for it. So I put this in the urban legend category. OK, it might be flim flam. Yeah. OK. Yeah. That's good. That's one step closer to debunking flim flam. Yeah. NPR had a story about this.

OK. And so that gave it a lot of play. And there's different variations. One is that people are killing the snakes that make a lot of noise. Another one is that pigs are eating the snakes that are making a lot of noise. Again, it makes sense, but we don't really have evidence that it's actually happening. How can pigs eat snakes? They're tough. Really? They are really tough.

And they probably feel it when they're when they're bitten by a venomous snake. But it doesn't necessarily ruin their day, but it doesn't kill them. Wow, they just keep going. They're their machines. They are an incredible destructive force throughout this country. They're there. Yeah. Feral feral pigs. I had no idea.

So today's invasive feral wild pigs are descended from wild boar that was introduced, plus escaped domestic pigs and some hybrids of the two. And I found out wild pigs are super destructive. They cause the US like one point five billion dollars each year in damages. They look like a barnyard pig who went on a low carb diet and grew its hair out into like a lazy shag. They eat crops. They they edge out native species.

They spread disease. They're considered vermin in some states. They were also considered really fucking adorable by me. I'm sorry. So they're like, whatever, dude. Yeah, that's tough. I had no I had no idea. Go pigs. Ginger Larson wants to know, do you have any tips or advice for herpen? Also, can you define herpen?

Yeah, herpen is one of the terms are going out and catching herpes is something that you don't want to necessarily use in mixed company without explaining that herping is the act of going out looking for amphibians and reptiles. Remember those animals make up herpetology, which is creepy, crawly things. And herpes is shorthand for amphibians and reptiles as well. So the number one trick is to learn the natural history of these animals. Walk around natural areas and just look.

They're not going to be advertising their presence. So just walk slowly, pay attention to your surroundings. And I'm sure you'll come across something. Be a little patient. Yeah, you know, sometimes those nature shows spoil us and they do a lot of editing and cutting. And so it seems like you're seeing an animal every 10 seconds. Often it takes a lot of walking around before you find something

because they don't want to be found. OK, so just give it a minute. Give it a minute. And if you want to talk, you know, specifics in the spring at dusk, drive around natural areas, often these snakes and frogs will be crossing the road after rains, you might find amphibians walking to wellens. So it depends on what kind of species and where you're living. What is the best kind of boot for this activity?

Do you know what you got? Oh, these are not these are not these are like a mall boots. They're not going to do it. That would probably fend off most reptile attacks. OK. Yeah. I wear closed toed shoes. If I know I'm going to be in an area where there's venomous snakes. That's really all the precaution I take.

And I just watch where I put my feet. You don't wear like a like iron anklets because don't they like to go over the ankles a little bit? Uh, I've never worn iron anklets before. There are things like snake boots, which are these really rugged looking heavy duty things. And the only times I've worn those is when I was specifically radio tracking rattlesnakes.

So, you know, you're going right towards it. You're saying, I think the signal is here and you're walking around. Pretty much everybody I know that studied rattlesnakes has accidentally stepped on one, but they haven't been really. Yeah. Later, I was like, wait, how do you put a radio tracker on a fricking rattlesnake, dude? How does that happen? And boy, how did I find out?

I scrubbed through a twenty two minute video with banjo music and I learned that snakes are captured. They're put under general anesthetics. They don't feel anything. And then a flexible radio antenna is surgically implanted in their skin. Then they're medicated. They recuperate. They're released into the wild.

I know this is going to sound a little kooky, all right. But I was like, yeah, maybe alien abductions are real. Like we do it to snakes and stuff. So like maybe that happens to humans as possible. Anyway, back to rattlesnakes. Let's say that you were bitten because I live in Los Angeles. I hike on occasion. Once I saw a little guy right right next to the trail, a narrow trail.

Let's say I had gotten bitten on my ankle. Should I try to suck the venom out with my mouth and spit it out? Your priority should be getting professional medical care. OK, and I don't tend to give medical advice because that gets me in a little trouble, but I'd say that most doctors would probably say not to try sucking out the venom. Yeah, no turnic yet. No sucking out the venom, no ice.

They say that the most important thing you can do is have a pair of car keys or cell phone to call somebody. OK, I checked. And if you suck on a snake bite, you'd only get about one one thousandth of the venom out. Yikes. So there's no DIY, there's no life hack for this. I do not recommend any life hack for venomous snake bite. I will tell you, let's say that you have a phone and you drop it in water.

And let's say that you're worried about how much water is in the phone. And let's say you were to put your mouth on some part of the phone and suck some of the water out sometimes that helps. That that can't be true. I've done that before. So there's water inside the. I need to look at. I've dropped my phone in water and tried to suck the water out of the ports.

Look, it's a scary, stressful situation. I should have just called an ambulance at that point. So I know when we recorded this a month ago, Dr. Steen told me he was leaving Auburn University soon to work. Are you ready for this on an island with sea turtles? He is now a researcher, college at the Georgia Sea Turtle Center on an island that's called Jekyll Island. He tells me Turtle Island is the bomb, his words.

I looked it up and it's so idyllic and perfect. My stomach started hurting because of beauty. It's yeah, it's you know, where people go to vacation. So you're going to live on a vacation island full of sea turtles. I'm going to live adjacent to a sea turtle island, which is much better than Snake Island. And I was going to say the appeal slightly higher. So does that mean you get to count baby sea turtles?

There it's a loggerhead nesting beach and there's a lot of there's a lot of sea turtle action going on there, including babies. Oh, my God, what a dream. It's kind of exciting. Do you dream about herpatology? I can't recall any specific dreams I've had about reptiles and amphibians, but surely surely it's happened. I'm sure. Side note, at this point,

the nice lady from the Hampton Infront Desk came into the conference room to show some other lady around. She just forgot we were in there. It had been that long. Oh, hi. She just wants to look at this. I'm so sorry. That's fine. Oh, that's OK.

I forgot you were in here. No worries. That's OK. Hi. Maybe they have questions. Yeah, but it's it's. No, it's a stopping and starting thing. Thank you. Check out what you needed to. Yeah. It's got a refrigerator in here, too. Yeah, if you need to go look.

Ice cream. Hot pockets. You're going to leave that in, right? Yeah, the whole thing. They were so sweet. OK, from Twitter, glistening hamsters wants to know midwife toads. I love how they go beep. That's not a question. Thanks for your comment, glistening.

Yeah, I think you're referring to narrow mouth toads, which do have kind of a nasal sound when they're breeding. Oh, they go me. That's I think that's what glistening hamsters is referring to. OK, so midwife toads are dope. They're named because the male carries around

a clutch of fertilized eggs on his back to protect them before letting them hatch and swim away in the water. They chirp and they sound like a heart monitor. They're like, beep, beep, beep. Now, narrow mouth toads have a call that sounds a lot like a lamb bleeding. They're like, meh, meh, meh.

OK, you guys, I love toads. OK, birds. One wants to know, do turtles recognize people they know? So this is probably a really controversial question because people perceive things from their pet turtles that I as a researcher can't necessarily appreciate. So I'm not going to take away from them the fact that maybe turtles do recognize people,

but I'm not sure if it's been the subject of rigorous study yet. OK, you know, crows do. Jury is still out on turtles, I think. Do you think in working with turtles, you'll find out if certain ones are like, hey, bro, what's up? I do not think I will find that out. OK, you let me know, though. So one thing that we do know is that some turtles are what we call trap happy. And if you set trap in a wetland, it'll it'll be there every day.

Yeah, what's that about? Are they are they like martyrs or are they just very dumb? Maybe maybe they're hungry and dumb. Bad memory, who knows? What recidivism, though, they're just like, they're like, I'm back, man. Yeah. OK. Hi. They need better parole officers. Last question.

What is the thing about your job or your life as a herper that sucks? What are you like? I hate this. You know, reptiles and amphibians are really amazing animals. Highly endangered in general. There were losing species were paving over their habitats. And so conservation biology is kind of this crisis discipline where you're struggling to learn as much as you can to stave off these extinctions.

And sometimes it's not possible. So that kind of sucks. So that's the grand bummer. Yeah, I hope this is not the end of the podcast because we don't want to end on a bummer. No, no, we never end with a stage five bummer. What is the best thing about your job? What just like gives you butterflies, keeps you going?

You're like, I'm so lucky. I can't believe they pay me for this. I'm really lucky to work with a great group of people that are really passionate about these animals, passionate about increasing our knowledge of them and making the planet a better place for them and us. And that's that's a great place to be. So your colleagues?

My colleagues. Really? So other people are the best thing about your job. That's that's surprising. You don't normally hear people say that. Yeah, well, it's true. It's true. It's it it really makes things better when you're surrounded by people that are all working towards a common goal

and are bright and motivated. And and that's why they're there. Now, if someone wanted to be a herpetologist or a wildlife ecologist, what would you tell them to do? What would you what do you wish you could be like? Hey, yo, little me. Get experience anyway you can. Figure out if it's for you. Surround yourself with people

that share those kinds of goals and figure out if it's for you and a path will emerge. Is there anything I should eat before I leave Alabama? The barbecue is big here. OK. I'm not big on barbecue, but barbecue is big here. Oh, and boiled peanuts. Oh, I'll try boiled peanuts. OK, great. I've never why do they even do that?

They're easier to show, I guess. OK, well, like, when have you ever been shelling a peanut and been like, oh, I got to stop a dig a nap like they're peanuts. Look, if you do a few hundred of them, you get cramps. OK, boiled peanuts on the list. Thank you so much for being on. Thank you for coming to a Hampton Inconference Room in the middle of Opalica.

Opalica. I got it. I got it. Yes. Nice job. I'm honored to be here. I was really excited when I got the invitation. Sorry about the SD cards. That's fine. I hope this worked. Can you imagine if it didn't? So what did we learn? Unless you wrestle the venomous ones

with your hands for sport, don't worry about snakes. Don't worry about snakes. Chances are if you're afraid of them, it's because your parents were. So rebel against your parents and love a snake. Also, shake a toad's hand and tell it I love them. Now, to find out more about Dr. David Steen, go to DavidAsteen.com.

He has so many links to great science articles he was quoted in, such as the November 2017 issue of gone froggen called him Herper of the Week. And here are two more titles of articles he's been quoted in. This $10 sex toy is helping scientists study turtles. Here are the worst smells in the world, according to scientists.

He's he's these are marks of good science communication. They're interesting. You can also follow him on Twitter or Instagram at alongside wild. He's living alongside wildlife on Facebook. He also runs a nonprofit, which you can learn about at alongside wildlife foundation.org. I'll put all these links up in the show notes

and at alleyward.com slash allergies. So if you don't have a pen, don't worry about it. You can find me at alleyward or at allergies on Twitter and Instagram and head to Instagram. For this week's allergies enamel pin set giveaway. I'm so excited. You can become a patron at patreon.com slash allergies. I absolutely love making this podcast.

I love it so much. And you may have noticed I don't run any ads. It's entirely funded by listeners through Patreon and merch sales that helps pay my merch ladies. It helps pay Stephen Ray Morris to sound edit all this for me. He totally undercharges me, and I would love to pay him what he deserves. Thank you so much, Stephen.

We will hopefully get to that point. Join the allergies podcast Facebook group, which is full of some of the best, kind, curious, hilarious people ever. So thank you, Hannah and Erin, for running that. Shannon Feltis, who also goes by Urban Farm Foods and Bonnie Dutch, who's on Etsy, run allergiesmerch.com. Shannon is also a chef in Portland,

and she's having a dinner with fanatologist from episode six, Cole and Perry. She's gonna come out to Portland. So I'm gonna try and get up there for that too. So you can go to eatfeastly.com for more info on that. Also, if you listened to the end of the episode, you know that I usually tell some dumb secret at the very, very end as a thank you for sticking it out.

I feel like most people don't listen to the very end of a podcast, so I decided to confess weird stuff. This week, I will tell you, I got insanely busy with a bunch of writing deadlines, and I wore the same shirt from Wednesday nights until Friday afternoon. I mean, I work from home and use a great shirt,

and I just time got away from me, okay? Another secret? This is a good secret. This is a less embarrassing secret. I start shooting a new Netflix science show this week. I'm so excited, and I will give you more info on that when I know I legally can, I guess. So until then, ask smart people dumb questions,

and ask snake people frog questions. Also, toads have arms. Okay, bye-bye. Hack-a-dermatology, homiology, cryptozoology, litology, and technology. Meteorology, nephrology, nephrology, seriology, and technology.