Ologies with Alie Ward - Melittology (BEES) with Amanda Shaw

Episode Date: March 20, 2018

BEES! Hives, honey, and how to keep them as outdoor pets. Meet melittologist and President of the Urban Beekeepers Association, Amanda Shaw. She and Alie cozy up in a weird hotel in Portland to chat about honeybees vs. native ones, how to become a beekeeper, social savagery that rivals Game of Thrones, if you should eat honey to deal with seasonal allergies, what happens in the drone zone (hint: boning) and how we can SAVE THESE FRIGGIN BEES. Also: what happens when 15,000 bees go through a carwash.For more on Amanda Shaw, see WaggleWorksPDX.comPortland Urban BeekeepersMore episode sources and linksSupport Ologies on Patreon for as little as a buck a monthOlogiesMerch.com has hats, shirts, pins, totes!Follow @Ologies on Twitter and InstagramFollow @AlieWard on Twitter and InstagramSound editing by Steven Ray MorrisMusic by Nick Thorburn

Hey, it's your ol' pal, Ally Ward, with another straight-shootin' episode of all the cheese. Bees. Bees, man. You're worried about him, aren't you? Bid me a minute. You've cradled a cup of warm tea, you've gazed out a window vacantly and thought, What the fuck are we gonna do about these fucking bees? Well, first thing, let's get to know them a little better. So, now I've wanted to do this episode for literally 12 years.

When I first came across a list of ol' g's back in the day, this one was honestly the one I was most horny for. I love insects, I've harbored a fantasy for decades that I will retire and become a very wrinkly old lady who wears cotton smocks and lovingly tends to like 30,000 bee pets in her desert garden, trying to name each one of them a human name. Speaking of loving admiration, I'd like to take time to stare at you like a grateful creep

and look into your eyes and say, Thank you, ol' gites, for rating and reviewing and also for leaving reviews on iTunes. It helps so much. It lets the podcast get seen by other people and also I'm very needy for feedback sometimes and I read every single one of your reviews. Subspecialty says,

Thank you, Ali, this podcast fills in need. I didn't even know I had before I found it. Your edits are like the most relatable internal commentary and my Twitter feed has become so much less bleak and more full of squids. Get those squids in your timelines, guys. Get them right in your eyeballs. Okay, back to bees.

So, is it melatology, apiology? There is controversy, which is it? Okay, I didn't know what to title this because I didn't know what to call it. So, apis malifera or apis malifera, whatever, is the genus and species of the European honeybee, the ones you think of commonly when someone says honeybee. But there are so many species of bees.

There are 20,000 species of bees. That's like if every seat in Madison Square Garden were filled with one species of bee, just one little bee representing. Just take it in the show. So, is it apiology or melatology? I look this up and I got nauseated with enthusiasm. I'm not lying about that.

To learn that apiology from Latin, apis for bee, is the study of just honeybees and beekeeping. But melatology, Greek, melata, meaning bee, is the study of all the bees. So, this episode is melatology because we talk about a bunch of species and I like my insect talk to be inclusive as hell. So, this melatologist is the president

of the Portland Urban Beekeepers Association and I knew I was down to clown with her immediately. When she returned my email with the question, how soon are you wanting to be connected? She went for it. So, a few days later we met in my hotel lobby and at first I walked right past her because I thought she was 12.

She is tiny, be spectacled with a strawberry blonde bob, but is actually a full-grown badass bee president with years of beekeeping obsession under her belts but not literally because ow. So, we went up to my room and I realized that she had a backpack with a bee patch stitched on. She was wearing a shirt with a bee on it and she has a bee tattoo.

So, she started talking and I immediately got my mic set up because everything she says is golden. So, bee prepared to learn about weird places for nests, what color not to wear, what happens when you vacuum up bees, how you can become a beekeeper literally like today, why you should communicate all of your needs

by shaking your rump, how wasps can get bent and why these damn bees are dying and what to do to save them and also the future of humanity. So, please get so pumped for melatologist Amanda Shaw. I've always been interested in weird things. Wait, I have to ask you this one right now. Here, I'm going to give you this one.

Okay. And you're the president of a beekeeping organization. Yes. I was actually just elected in January. What does that entail? Are you drunk with power most of the time? No. No.

No. No. No. No. No. No. No. I was drunk with power most of the time.

I tried to use my powers for good. So, it's urban beekeeping because we're in Portland. It's a pretty big city. Yes. And there is, there's an enormous backyard beekeeping community in Portland. Do you think that Portland lends itself to backyard beekeeping because it's like kind of cool? Yes.

Okay. Yeah. And the climate is mild and I think that people in Oregon are gardeners, they are more adept to organic, natural, locally farmed situations. Yes. They're like, I'm going to make my own. Make my own or go to the farmer's market. Tell me about your love affair with bees.

When did it begin? So, I started keeping native bees about five years ago. Mason bees, I call it the gateway bee now because I quickly became enchanted with keeping bees and planting my pollinator garden and you just, I became more in tune with what's going on throughout the season. And I was always looking out for other bees that were visiting my garden that I had never seen before. What's a mason bee?

Mason bees are solitary bees. They're known as the gentle pollinator. They're native. They're also called blue orchard mason bees and they nest in these little tubes. They're super easy. It's like beekeeping for anybody. Anybody could keep mason bees and they're just, they're fuzzy and they're shiny and blue and cute and you know, when they're coming back to their nest, you can see little packs

of pollen on their bellies and they're bringing it back and they're just, they're really cute. So a non-yellow, non-striped bee, yes, they exist. There are a lot of them. So mason bees are this really beautiful kind of gunmetal blue color. And in a lot of the one million photos I just scrolled through while turning into a living, breathing, heart-eyed emoji, mason bees appear to be covered in pollen a lot, like little dusty dummies. So I guess sloppy gatherers make really good pollinators, just like confetti pollen everywhere.

And so do you put like tubes out where they can kind of burrow into? Yeah. So you can actually buy these little cardboard tubes on Amazon or at a local garden store and you can just put out a little house to put them in and you can buy the cocoons. They come in little cocoons and they hatch each spring and they pollinate for six weeks and then they lay eggs for the next generation that will hatch out of their cocoons the following springtime. Oh, that's adorable.

Yeah. So it's a short term. You can only get six weeks of mason bee watching and that wasn't enough for me. So I started studying really, really hard and got my first beehives a few years ago and it has just spiraled out of control. That's a good pro. This is a good addiction to have though, right? It is.

Side note, an addiction to bees would technically be called, ready for this, melisaphilia. And I only know this because I researched addicted to bees and I found that this was a common self-professed ailment of beekeepers. And then I looked up the fear of bees and found out it was melisaphobia. So we now know that one, bee addiction is common and two, all of your friends named melisa are named after bees. Melissa in Greek means bee. So extra shout out to any Melissa out there keeping bees, double duty on the bees.

One of the most surprising things about getting into beekeeping was getting connected to this great community of hobbyists, professionals, scientists. I am surrounded by really, really wonderful beekeepers and there's been a lot of support there. And did you like bees or insects as a kid or did you, when did you develop an interest? I, oh, I've always been kind of into nature and plants and, you know, all that stuff. But it wasn't until I saw this documentary called More Than Honey that I really felt the need to start learning about bees.

What is it? It's, well, it speaks to the challenges that our pollinators are facing and like there's real trouble and people need to get on board and help. So I started, that's when I got into mason beekeeping because that was something I could do immediately without a lot of pre-study and, you know, planting my copolynator garden, you know, stuff you can kind of do on your own without a big investment or, you know, this is partly, I imagine, the concern came out of colony collapse, colony collapse disorder, right?

And just in general, we got a problem with the bees, right, like bees need our help right now. If bees could have a telethon, they'd be like, you guys dial in, call now, help the bees. Yes. So what is happening? Like it's, it's pesticides. So I know that one rumor was like cell phones are killing bees, but like, so what's happening? So if we, the bees are dying and then without the bees, we don't have things pollinated,

which is important for agriculture and just in general botany, but like, what's going on with these bees? So what we're seeing is bees are being put into nest boxes that aren't ideal. And if you look at the industrial beekeeping complex, bees are being forced to pollinate and work outside of their normal cycle. And so they're being pushed to these limits and it's weakening their immune systems. And when there's monoculture and pesticide use involved, it, it causes them to collapse. There's varroa mites, there's diseases that come with that because that also weakens their

immune system. Okay. Aside on these varroa mites, their genus and species name is varroa destructor. And they are like bed bugs to bees. They are these tiny, flat, kind of button shaped, rusty, brown little nasties. And when they feed on bees, they drain them of fats and lymph and they leave these open wounds that make the bees more susceptible to fungi and viruses, like one that deforms their wings.

So these kind of mites, varroa mites were introduced into the US in the 80s, and I don't mean to talk shit, but everybody hates them. And so I think that it's a complicated issue. It's not just the pesticides. It's not just the monoculture, not just the, the, you know, flimsy boxes that we're keeping them in. It's all of that together and trucking them around the country. That's not, that's not normal.

That's not what they're designed to do. What is their normal like life cycle? They only work in certain months and we're like, yo, we got stuff to pollinate. Right. It's February. Got almond trees to pollinate. Get up. Let's go.

So Portland is relatively temperate and Amanda says that the bees do survive over winter and then they're up and at them in late March, early April. And then by November, they start shutting down for winter again, living off the honey and they have smaller colony numbers. But the summer bees are the most extra they're out there. The summer bees only last about six weeks because they literally work themselves to death. Oh, yeah.

And most of them are women anyway, right? Yes. Like they need to take a break, right? It is like, cause most of the workers, the workers are all women. The workers are all women. Yeah. Yeah. And so they work themselves to death.

To death. Yes. Good God. Yeah. I had no idea. Yeah. Someone needs to step in and be like, girl. Just take a day off once in a while.

Don't worry about these flowers for today. And so now what can a person do? This is one question that I got so many times that I can't even attribute it to a single listener, but like, what can we do for the bees? You started becoming interested in apoculture because of their plight and, but you went like, fall hog and now you're the president of a beekeeping association, like in the scale of like zero to 10, like what can the average person do? I always tell people, you don't have to be a beekeeper to help the cause.

The biggest thing that bees need right now, honeybees and native bees is food that's safe, you know, providing, you know, plant seeds that haven't been pre-treated with pesticides and check the labels because a lot of them are pre-treated. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. And, and planting plants that haven't been pre-treated with systemic pesticides. That's one of the big issues. I didn't know what a systemic pesticide was because I live in L.A. and my garden is a

parking lot, but they're the kind of pesticides that live in the tissues of the plant instead of just being misted over the leaves. Man, agriculture is a war field. There are poisonings, sudden vanishing of tens of thousands of family members. There's billions of dollars at stake. It's like a candy land of micro dramas. Another thing that native pollinators are struggling with is habitat. So if you can have a corner of your yard where, you know, you can have that compost pile on

the ground for bumblebees to nest in or there, you know, there's lots of other ground nesting bees. So like having that awareness, you can make your yard its own little nature site and the bees will come. They will come. You don't have to worry about like setting out a party and you're like, nobody even came to the garden. You're going to have to send invitations, just plant the safe flowers, put out some habitat,

they'll be fine. And now you keep saying native bees and I feel like we need to educate some people that honeybees, non-native species. Correct. Not native. And we brought them over from Europe for their, for to use them as honey producers. But can you tell me a little bit about the difference between honeybees and native bees and should honeybees, should we be, should we be using honeybees in this environment?

With native bees, they're actually more effective pollinators than honeybees are, but honeybees sort of get all of the attention and they can be used in the agricultural industry. They can be used as livestock to pollinate large crops, but native bees are more effective pollinators. They have over 4,000 species of native bees in America. What? So there's a lot of them out there, but they sort of don't get the attention that they need because the honeybees are the star of the show.

And they're the ones getting, you know, the cry for help is for the honeybees, but really it's the native bees that need the habitat, they need variety in their diet. So when you have like these giant fields of almonds, or cotton, or corn, or soybeans, that's not good for the native bee population because they need variety. Oh, so the agriculture kind of cuts them off from the flora that would be out there now. Yes. Got it. Yeah.

And so planting things in your backyard on your property that are good plants for them helps them out. Yes. And having variety and making sure that you have plants blooming as long as possible during the growing season. And now, what do you keep? I plant a lot of oregano, mint, lavender and stuff that's really easy to grow, that's kind of blooms long season, borage is a really great bee food and it's super easy to take

care of. And you can eat the flowers. Yes. And they're deer resistant. Oh. So you have deer coming through your property. Now what kind of bees do you keep? I keep mason bees and I keep honey bees.

Okay. Yeah. So the jump to honey bees where you're like, I'm going in, like I'm becoming a beekeeper, like hardcore beekeeper, how did you approach that? I started studying honey bees very shortly after starting my venture with mason bees. But the thing that really kicked it into high gear was early spring, a couple of years ago, I was in my backyard and I hear a bunch of people calling my name, mandy, mandy, mandy, come quick, come quick.

So I run out of the fry yard and there's a swarm of bees, there's a honey bee swarm collecting in the maple tree in my fry yard. It was just, I'd never seen a swarm before and it just felt like a sign. That is thrilling. That's like finding a puppy. Yes. That's so exciting. I have never felt that kind of exhilaration in my life.

It was really special and so I called the swarm hotline, there's a hotline that you could call and they'll let beekeepers know there's a swarm and the sky came and he was like the Sam Elliott of beekeepers. So tough and he had the mustache and everything and the swarm was up high in this tree and he gets out this ladder and it's rickety, it's this tripod ladder thing and he just goes up there and he's got this special vacuum for vacuuming up the bees and he just gathers them up and puts them in his car and drives off. Were you like, can I keep them?

Oh, invited. I wasn't quite ready yet because I didn't have a hive to put them in and I didn't have anything. And so, but that was what really made me realize this is it. I'm doing this. So I spent the rest of that year getting my equipment, taking beekeeping classes, reading more, joining the organization and just, you know, getting myself ready. Before you go Amazon priming a whole bee setup, which you can totally do for like $200, you

may want to check with a local beekeepers association first because they can sometimes rent or lend out equipment, which is very handy, or they can tell you which stuff is bunk and not to buy. One thing that Amanda always has on under her bee suit is her bee tattoo and it covers the entirety of her right bicep. It's this gorgeous floral mural featuring, of course, her favorite tiny friends. At what point did you get your bee tattoo? I got my bee tattoo in 2016.

Oh, so this is after you started keeping honeybees? Yeah, shortly after. And it's funny because I had it done in four sessions and I was doing it in the spring time and after two of the sessions, I caught swarms that day on two occasions. No way. Yes. It's kind of freaky. It's totally freaky.

So do you go help catch swarms too? Yes. So you become the Sam Elliott of beekeeping also? Yes. The lady Sam Elliott. So you use, what kind of vacuum do you use? Is it like a modified black and decker? Well, I don't have a bee vac.

I use other methods, but you can make a bee vac. You just have to make sure the suction is not very strong and collects them in a bucket. But I use other methods and the thing about going out to catch a swarm, you don't know what you're going to find when you get there. They might be really high up in a tree. They might be wrapped around a tree trunk and a shrub. I caught one that was on the ground, just in a pile on the ground and it was really, really early spring.

It was kind of cold and so they were just kind of laying there cold. They couldn't move and so I very, very carefully used sheets of cardstock to kind of scoop them up and put them into the box because I didn't know what else to do and it worked. But that's the exciting thing about swarm catching. You don't know what you're going to find. Sometimes are they agitated? Sometimes. Yeah.

I feel like, no, no, it's too cold here for them. They're central, northern California as high as they go. Okay. Yeah. I feel like we heard a lot about those in the 90s. They're like killer bees. Yeah. Yeah.

We don't have them here. And so when you're catching a swarm, have you been stung before? Yeah. Yeah. Which hurts more the tattoo or the bee sting? The bee sting is kind of an anxiety inducing adrenaline rush. Okay. Is that because of the venom?

Yeah. So it's your body reacting to it and keeping you from having a bad reaction. But the tattoo is a more long lasting pain for sure. It's more like a burn. Right. Okay. So it's like a, I guess one is a quick poke and the other is a more systemic situation. So what's in an angry bee butt that's not in a tattoo gun?

This is a good question. Let's break it down. So bee venom contains a compound called melaton, which makes red blood cells burst, which hurts. And there are other proteins that destroy cell membranes, cause pain, destroy nerve tissue. There's also histamine in bee venom, which makes your capillaries leak and causes itchy welts. When bees sting, they release a pheromone that says, Hey bitches, I'm in trubs, causing

other worker ladies to come and kick your ass. It's a last ditch defense. Bees don't want to sting you. They don't want to die. They would really, really rather very much not. Yeah. How many times have you been stung by bees? I've only been stung four times.

Really? And last season I didn't get stung at all, which is kind of crazy. I've tried to be really super careful. And thinking about the times that I had been stung, it was totally my fault. Really? Cause I wasn't being careful. Um, there were a couple of times where I grabbed a piece of equipment without checking underneath.

You know, if I was doing an inspection and I pick it up and squash a bee and you know, get stung. Uh, I've had them climb up my pant leg before I got stung on the head one time. So you prevent getting stung by just being really, really kind of cautious about where they are at all times. Like just kind of watching your back. Yes. Okay.

Yes. And now when they're swarming, tell me what is happening. So a swarm is like a birth of a new colony. And it happens in the springtime when bees are, you know, coming out of winter, the queen starts laying eggs, the colony starts brooding up. They start ramping up their, um, their population production. And so they'll make new queens to prepare for the swarm. And so when the new queens emerge, the old queen leaves the hive with about half of the

bees and they go off to find a new place to live. Oh, that's actually, that's fascinating. Cause I always thought that it was a new queen that was like a bye, but really it's the old one. It's the old one. Yeah. Fine. We're out of here.

I never knew that. And so they go off, she takes about half the hive, how do they, how do they decide who goes with her and who stays? I don't know. It's amazing to me that they can even coordinate the move and find a new place to live and have the timing be just so. Right. Um, I'm not sure how they decide who gets to go with mom and who gets to stay with

the new mom. I had to find out how these allegiances and betrayals were made and I read a whole article about it. And in the very end, it just summarized it with quote, it's rather random. Yeah. It's almost like, I wonder if it's like a step mom situation. Right. She's younger.

She's like, fuck you mom. Um, and so they swarm, they all leave and they just, they, they're in this like cloud and then they kind of will like gather at a pit stop on a tree and be like, okay, where are we going? Yeah. Exactly. Where's the weirdest place that you've seen a hive? Um, I haven't seen hives myself in very crazy places, but I follow some professional

bee removal beekeepers on Instagram and they've shown pictures of one beekeeper who showed bees living in an elephant statue, like statue is hollowed out and the bees were living in it. It's like a Trojan horse. Right. The weirdest Trojan horse. Um, compost bins, um, water meter boxes in the sidewalk. Yeah.

We once had a swarm inhabit a wall of arts when I was a kid and it was the weirdest day. It was a Friday the 13th. It was, um, good Friday. Our dog died that day. There was an earthquake and there was a bee swarm in the wall. It was the weirdest day. It was, I just remember our whole field was like, this is very, very all at once. It was like, it felt very biblical, but they can also, they can also find an inn and hang

out in your walls. Right. Yes. Yeah. It's common for them to like, if they find a little hole in the siding, hey, this is a nice sized space. It's warm. It's high off the ground.

Let's do it. Um, they'll move into chimneys, which is like, gosh, how do you, how do you take them out of a chimney? Yeah. How do you take them out of a chimney? I have a beekeeper friend that has done this several times and he says it's like a slow strangle. He said, does sort of lure them out in a way that they can't get back in, but often you

have to give them a new queen because the old queen doesn't know to come out. And so it's, it's complicated and it takes a long time. Once you have a bucket of bees, do you then distribute those to people who are looking to populate hives? I keep them when I catch them. And so it's always a race for resources. Like, oh my gosh, I just cut a swarm. I need to make sure I have equipment ready for them.

And in my first season, that was the biggest surprise was like a constant race to keep up with the demand for equipment. And it's not cheap beekeeping is not a cheap hobby. I imagine it costs a lot to get started, but once you do get started, then, you know, it's not so bad. And do you ever have people who are like, yeah, I thought beekeeping would be for me, but turns out no here. Do you want my stuff?

I've never had that. All right. So there's not a big like attrition rate. Okay. Right. And so how many hives do you have? How many bees do you have? I have three traditional hives, traditional Langstroth hives, you know, like you would

see in the beekeeping operations. What is a Langstroth hive? Okay. Those are the square beekeeping boxes, usually white that you see near orchards and in backyard beekeeping with the leaves that you can remove. So they were named in the 1950s for their inventor LL Langstroth. And when I first saw the Wikipedia photo, I thought, oh, cool, a lady. But it turns out he was just an older dude with luxurious tresses.

He was also a clergyman and he passed away at the age of 85 by dropping dead at the pulpit as he was beginning a sermon. Anyway, that's one kind of hive. And then I also have a tree hive. What? So the tree is the bee's ultimate nest site. That's what they're really designed to live in is a hollow of a tree. It's insulated, it's alive, it has its own microbiome that is happening inside.

So this tree was in somebody's yard and they had to have it removed. And I have a friend here in Portland, his name is Brian Lacy. This is area of expertise. So he works with Arborus to preserve that section of the tree and keep it intact so that he can find a new home for it with the bees still inside. It's wild. And so I have this bee tree and it's really, I think, a humbling experience as a beekeeper because you have to trust them.

You can't get in there and meddle with their affairs. You can only watch and trust that they know what they're doing. And out of all of the colonies I've ever had, the bee tree is the most robust. Really? Yeah. And do you go in there and harvest any honey at all or do you just let them do their thing? It's a totally hands off. I just sit and admire them.

Like an ant farm kind of? Right. Now with your other hives, do you do any honey harvesting as well? I don't. And the reason is they work so hard for it. And I have not seen them have a surplus enough where I felt like I could take from them. How sweet is that? No pun intended for reals.

What exactly is the role of honey? Or walk me through a little bit how it goes from essentially like flourages to honey. It goes from like flourages to barf to honey. What's happening in nature? Okay, so the bee goes out and gathers some nectar and they use their tongue, their proboscis. It's like a straw and they suck that up and the honey goes in or the nectar goes into their honey stomach. So it's a secondary stomach that they have.

And they carry it in that and when they bring it back to the hive, they do this thing called trophallaxis. And they're regurgitating the nectar into another bee's mouth. What? What? What? What? What?

What? What? What? Oh! And they pass it back and forth and each time they do this, they're adding enzymes to it. It reduces the moisture content of the nectar a little bit because the nectar is very high in moisture.

And so before it can become true honey, they have to bring that moisture content down quite a bit. So after they pass it back and forth, they'll put it into a little honeycomb cell and they fill that up and then they use their wings to sort of flap and get the air moving and reduce the moisture content. Ideally for harvested honey, 17% is the most moisture that you'd want to have for it. And then they cover it with wax. And so it stays fresh forever, really.

Now, what are they using the honey for? How are they using that honey to feed a brood? They feed their brood pollen. Okay. So when they're collecting pollen, they're bringing that back to the hive and they're adding enzymes to it to sort of ferment it and it's called bee bread. Oh. I didn't know that.

Yes. Bee bread. That's cute. And so they'll feed that to their babies. It's a protein source. Got it. So then what's the honey used for? For the adults?

They eat it. Yeah. It gives them energy. It's to carbohydrate. It sustains them through the winter. Oh, so are they collecting it more in spring and summer and then living off of it in the winter? Yes.

Yeah. And before a swarming event, they fill up on it. Everybody fills up before they leave the hive because they need that energy for when they get to their new home location to build comb because they don't have any comb where they're going unless they're moving into an old beehive. So they have to start from scratch. So they're carboloading. They're carboloading.

Yes. They're like a snake before a marathon. And so now where is the distinction between those who harvest honey and those who don't? When you, with the Portland Urban Beekeepers, do you guys have both? We do. Yeah. We have a wide range of beekeeping philosophies and practices within our organization. At our teaching apiary, we have harvested honey from those hives and we have a honey

extraction party. And some people do practice beekeeping commercially on a larger scale than say like your average backyard beekeeper. And what was one of the first things they teach you in beekeeping classes? You mentioned that you signed up for some classes. Is it like how to suit up? Is it like how to be one with a bee and get in its zone? It was a lot of just real practical information.

There's honey bee biology, understanding their different working parts. The social structure of the hive is important to understand. Equipment, how to choose what kind of hive you're going to keep your bees in, stuff like that. This is a dumb question. But why do some hives look like igloo domes and others are like white boxes? I think you're thinking of a skep, the little igloo dome. Yes. So traditionally that is what bees were kind of kept in for a long time.

These woven baskets and they're caked with mud or cow dung on the outside. They're this breathing, not box, but a breathing atmosphere for the bees to live in. But it's also really insulated and it's the right size for them. It's not too big, not too small. They can maintain the heat. They can maintain the moisture inside of something like that. But the bee boxes, like the square boxes, that's kind of what. People have been keeping bees in in America for a long time.

That's what the industry standard and it's what's widely available. And a lot of people start with that because it's the easiest for the beekeeper. There's more beekeeper centric. Got it. And because there are kind of like volumes, almost like file folders you can take out, right? Yes. I have a little bit of an idea, but can you explain like what's going on? Like what's in the box?

Like what's happening in that box? So in the box, you'll have your frames of drawn out wax and they'll use it for storing honey, pollen, and also raising their babies. And generally you'll have two boxes. So you'll have the one below, which is where it's called the brood chamber. It's where the queen is hanging out and laying eggs and that's where the brood is coming from. And then the box above generally would be for food stores. But sometimes, you know, the queen will go between the two and you'll see brood in both boxes

during the peak of the season. And there is a queen. There are the female workers and then there are the drones, right? Yes. And so how do they determine who is the queen? The queen is made a queen when she's still an egg, three days old egg. The change happens when they start feeding her. She's only fed royal jelly, so she doesn't get any bee bread.

She's deprived of protein during her development. And that is what makes her a queen. Because she's deprived of protein? She's given a totally different diet. And so that somehow changes her. She grows differently than the worker bee. And what's royal jelly exactly? Royal jelly is this enzyme that the bees, they have these glands that they excrete it, yeah.

So that comes from a bee face and not from a bee face. And so do a lot of different workers like contribute to that or is it like they're one nurse? So what happens is, you know, if a bee lives out its full life cycle, it will achieve all of the different jobs within a colony. And they start out as nurse bees. So when they first are born, they come out and they start tending the young and the larvae. And then there's food processor bees. There's cleaning bees because they like to keep their hive really clean.

And the last stage is the foraging bees. Those are the most experienced bees and they go out and are the ones that we see in the gardens. I understand that when they make a queen, they'll make a couple of them. Yes, yeah, it's just like a fight to the death. It is. And so let's say they make five queens and they all emerge around the same time. They will call each other out. They do this thing called piping.

And so they kind of sounds like a kazoo. They'll call to each other and then they'll fight. Side note. So the first queen out starts roaming around making this noise in G sharp. It's called piping or tooting. It's like me, me, me. Now a few of her sisters who have also been raised to be queens, but are still sleeping in their little cells, they just snooze a little longer.

They respond with a noise called quacking. It sounds like a duck honk. It's kind of like Marco Polo, but with newborns. Now here's the thing. When the sleepy queens quack back at the first one, that first one's like, oh, there you are. And then goes and kills them. So she's essentially like, hey, hey, who's up?

Anyone up? And then her sisters are like, hey, hey, what's up? I'm just about to get up. What's going on? Ah, what's up? And she's like, oh, hey, I kill you. I'm telling you, this is a candy land of micro drama. And so and then will the one who loses die?

Yeah. And then whoever the strongest is, is like, I'm the queen now, bitch. Yes. And then she has to go out on her mating flight and hopefully, you know, doesn't get eaten by a bird. Oh god, can you imagine all of that? So like there are a lot of things that can happen. It's a very delicate.

And does she have a stinger? Or does she? Because I know a stinger is an over positive. Yeah, she does have a stinger, but it's not barbed, like a worker stinger. So she can use it in battle. But it's not like the worker stinger with the venom sack. Because the barb also rips it straight out your body, right?

Yes. Yeah. But I have seen videos where the beekeeper kept their cool and let the bee work the stinger out themselves. And so the bee was able to sting without losing its life. That is generous. Yeah. That is so generous.

Nerves of steel. Seriously. And so the mating flight, tell me a little bit about that. It's also called the nuptial flight. And so the queen goes up to the drone congregation zone. Oh. So all these drones are hanging out high up at the tree level waiting. It's like the singles bar.

And so the queen goes to the drone congregation zone and flies as fast as she can. Because she wants the fastest male, fast genetics. So she'll mate with maybe a dozen or so. Hello, girl. Yeah. I love that she's like going to the drone zone. Yeah. Let's see what happens.

She's in the drone zone. Good girl. And so the fastest 12 or so will end up giving her sperm. And then she flies back and she's like, does she fertilize the eggs herself based on what she's gathered? It's amazing. So she holds all of the sperm and it has to be enough for her lifetime, which can be up to five years.

00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:26,560 Queens can live a very long time. She holds fertilized and unfertilized. So the unfertilized eggs are drones. She makes drones from unfertilized eggs, which when I first learned that, it blew my mind because I'm thinking, how does that work? The drone doesn't have a dad, but he has a grandfather. Whoa.

Because he's like, what? Yes. That's crazy. That's crazy. So much family drama. There are a lot of skeletons in their closet, especially considering bees don't have skeletons. Well, they have exeskeletons.

You know what I mean? And so she makes a smaller proportion than her drones, because most of what she needs are female worker bees. And does she have one nuptial flight her whole life? Yeah. Oh, so she gets it on one time. And if she doesn't mate well, the colony likely won't survive.

So it's really important that she, you know... It's a lot of pressure. Yeah, it is. Can you imagine if they're like, here's the deal. You get one gang bang your whole life, and then you're selling it till you die. But you never stop raising babies. Exactly.

It's a different lifestyle. It's a lot of pressure. Oh my God. And so she can live for maybe up to five years. Oh, I didn't realize that they live so long. Yeah. And queens have a little bit longer abdomen? Yes.

So once you can recognize a queen when you're doing your inspections, they're easy to find. They have the really long abdomen. So their wings are only coming down about halfway. And they're not as fuzzy as the workers or the drones. So their backs tend to be more shiny. Why are workers and drones fuzzy? It's my understanding that the workers have fuzz

because it helps them to gather the pollen. It will stick to them. They get a little bit staticky and sticky, and it will stick to their fuzz, and then they can clean it off and sort of push it into their little pollen packets. Oh, it's like glitter in a fur coat. Fancy.

When you first see a queen in a hive, do you get really excited? Is it like where's Waldo? It's like, this is my lucky day. Now, what about your family? Are they into beekeeping as well? You mentioned before we started recording, you have two kids, a partner.

Do the boys, do your sons like bees as well? They liked bees. When I first got them, they're beekeeping suits. Because it was a new costume for them to put on. Do you wear your beekeeping suit whenever you tend the hives? Yeah, I do. I do. And there's a, that involves kind of like a hazmat suit

with a mesh hood. I wear a ventilated suit and it's three mesh layers that are breathable, but it still gets really hot in the summertime. I wear that, I wear my rubber boots, my leather gloves, and then I made my veil that I wear. Yeah, custom. And now the smoke, you're essentially the smoke monster.

You're like, they fall asleep? They get drowsy? So it confuses them. It masks their pheromones. So if they're really feisty, you can put a little smoke on them and it, it subdues their sense of smell. But it also tricks them into thinking the hive is on fire. We got to load up on honey and get out of dodge.

Oh, wow. So beekeepers are like veiled Ashton kitchens, gently punking this shit out of these bees. So do they kind of piece out for a little bit? They do. It's really interesting. And I don't always use smoke. It's not always required.

But you can tell if they're cranky or just not feeling it, you can use a little bit of smoke. And there's this immediate shift in the overall sound of the hive and the overall movement. It's really strange. And what exactly is it? Is it, is it wood smoke? Is it vape juice?

What's, is it fog machine? What's happening? So we're using like newspaper and wood chips. You can get little smoker pellets to put in there. And really, you don't have to put a lot of smoke on them. Just a couple puffs will do you. Oh, OK. I just wondered what that was.

That was like what's burning in there. Yeah. Waggle dances. Let's talk about it. OK. I love the waggle dance. I mean, how do they know how to do it? What is it?

Tell me everything. So with the waggle dance, they are, they're communicating locations of food, water, or even a new place to live. And the orientation of the direction that they're doing the dance in correlates with where the sun is at. Whoa.

So they're following the sun and they're using their waggle dance to tell you which direction, like if the sun is, you know, do east, they'll do their dance, do east. 00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:30,560 And then the intensity of the waggle tells you how good of a source it is.

What? So like if you think about when they're swarming and they're looking for a new place to live and there one bee finds an ideal spot and they go back and they waggle to a group of bees, follow, you know, follow this direction, they go, they like it, they go back to the hive, waggle to a few more.

So like think about how long it would take them to waggle to everybody to get that message across. So I mean, what a crazy, complicated and advanced form of communication. It is, it's, they're like, I'm just amazed at how intelligent they are. They're insects. I mean, they're so smart.

I suck at charades. I don't understand how something that has a brain the size of a pinhead can be like, let me tell you, I can't, I don't know where I parked my car most of the time. Like how did they do it? I call it BPS. GPS, but with more butt wagging.

Yeah. Oh my God. I have so many questions from listeners. Can I borrow you? Yes, yes. Okay. But before we take questions from you, our beloved listeners,

we're going to take a quick break for sponsors of the show. Sponsors, why sponsors? You know what they do? They help us give money to different charities every week. So if you want to know where oligies gives our money, you can go to alleyword.com and look for the tab, oligies gives back. There's like 150 different charities

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You can answer as quickly as you can, as quickly as you want. I've never had so many questions before in any episode I've done. I'm not kidding. Zoe Teplik says, my mom used to find dead bumblebees and keep them in a box under her bed when she was a kid. Not a question, just a creepy fact I thought I'd share.

Confession, I keep dead bees too. Yay, where do you keep them? I have a little compartmental Tupperware thing that I keep them in. And when I go and do a presentation at a preschool or something, I can show them some different bees to look at. Do you have different species in there? So mason bees, bumblebees, leafcutter bees, drones, queen. I have a queen and worker bees.

If you too have a similar collection, feel free to tell me on social media. Just use the hashtag mydeadbees. Was it weird finding a dead queen? It was. Because it was a swarm that I had just caught like a month before and I went out to just sort of check on things and she was dead on their doorstep.

So in the time that they moved into their new home, they made a new queen, killed the old one. So I'm not sure what her defect was because the hive just, they won't just make a new queen for the hell of it. There's got to be something going on there that the current queen is not fulfilling for them to do it like that.

That's like some mafia shit though, you know what I mean? It was weird and she was still soft. I mean, it just happened. Oh my God, the drama. Yeah. That must have been a weird day. It was really strange. Ooh, did you sage the hive?

You were like, whoa, guys. I started chanting and dancing around it. Crystal, you're like, who's Ben Jo Jo? Okay, Julie Rose wants to know, is there ever a situation where you'd need to kill off the queen? And if so, why? Sometimes beekeepers will kill the queen

if they feel that she is not vital enough, if she's not laying enough eggs, if she's getting too old. They will kill her off and replace her with a new queen. Or if they feel like the genetics of the hive aren't good enough, they'll buy a queen that's been bred for certain traits and install her in the hive.

How much does it cost to buy a new queen bee? It depends on where you're getting her from. You can get locally raised queens for 40, 50 bucks, but I've heard that you can order very specifically bred hygienic queens for several hundred dollars. So. Like a pure red dog, kind of. Yeah.

Wow. Yeah. That's nuts. I didn't even realize that was a thing. Emily Barnett wants to know, do bees know they're going to die when they sting you, or do they just sting people and then go, oh, nuts? I'm not sure if they realize that that's the end for them.

I think that they're more driven by that instinct to simply protect, but it also makes me wonder if drones know that they're going to die after they mate with the queen. They die after they mate? Yeah. They just drop dead? So similar to the way the stinger and the venom sac

get ripped out of a worker bee, the penis and his innards fall out. And I found a drone on the ground dead and spent, and you could see that he had made it because his little man parts were hanging out. Oh my God. So he made the cut, but it ripped his dick off. Yes.

Wow. That is severe. It's brutal. And I thought dating just on apps was bad. That's rough. Girl, you are so fly, I would rip my dick off to father 60,000 of your children. Eric Blanc wants to know, I want to help bees in the area.

What's a good resource to find out the proper wild flowers to plant for them? I would go to the local extension department at the university. Zersey Society has a lot of resources. Pollinator Partnership also has a lot of resources, so you can find what's growing in your area. Penguin, penguin, and Carrie Stewart

both want to know, have you seen the bee movie and what are your opinions on it? Heavy sigh. I have seen it. Feelings? I think that it's fulfillment of raising awareness on the plight of the pollinators and raising awareness of bees in general.

Yes, thank you for that, but there's some serious misinformation. What's the worst flim flam you'd like to debunk? The workers are not boys. I didn't realize that, I have never seen it. I didn't realize that it's this off base. Yeah, and the fact that they are, so Jerry's bee character, it's been a few years since I've seen it,

but I was seething with rage because of this. He had to, like he wasn't born for the part of foraging, but he had to prove himself to be able to join the ranks of the foragers. Every bee, every worker bee gets to be a forager. And they're not dudes. They're not dudes. Oh my God.

So he eventually winds up as one, right? He does get to do it, but they make him look different from the other foragers and he doesn't fit in and it's... Come on guys, they should have shown him... If you're gonna put out a movie that's big, big movie like that, that's gonna reach millions of people, get some of that basic information right. Is it just me?

No, no, that's infuriating. They should have shown him tending babies, doing some cleanup, doing some food prep, and then go out be a soldier. Yes. That's a fine lesson in and of itself. Oh, I understand why that would be annoying. Yeah. Victoria Patterson wants to know,

is it actually good to keep bees and is there a type of bee that is best for keeping? So I think she's wondering like, is honeybees like, are we doing a disservice to keeping them? But it sounds like you're giving them a place to live in some care. If you can provide them a safe nest site and you help maintain that for them, because if you're gonna put bees in a man-made hive,

they're going to need maintenance. You can't just throw them in there and walk away. Fun fact, if a bee's colony is naturally occurring, it's called a nest. If it's human-made, it's a hive. But if you provide nesting for native pollinators, that's also a really easy thing to do and it's helping our native population.

Oh, that's good to know. I didn't realize that it was that maybe simple to keep like mason bees. It's really easy. Are carpenter bees kind of easy? I don't like keep them, but I see them. I know they're around. They're so huge.

I love them. Now, if you've ever seen those huge black bees buzzing around in the summer, they're probably carpenter bees, which drill out these perfect little tunnels in wood to raise their young. And the females are black and glossy and they rarely sting. And the males are this golden blonde color, and they don't even have stingers, of course, because they're dudes.

Now, these facts are helpful conversational distractions. If you ever see one and everyone around you is shrieking, kill the beast because they are big. Greg wants to know, what's the current situation for bee populations in America and the world? Last summer, there was a break in colony collapses, and I was wondering how we're doing, what we learned since then, where we're headed in the near future.

Was there a break in colony collapses or was that just a PR? I don't know about that. Okay. And I think that generally, the wild honey bee population is doing okay. It's the managed hives. It's the ones that are used in agricultural practices that we're seeing, the big issues with the colony collapse. Damn question, maybe.

Do native bees make honey and bee bread and all of that, or is it only social colonies that do it? So, bumble bees, they're sort of social, sort of solitary. They work in really small colonies, maybe 20 bees or so. Take a co-op. Yeah, and they will make a little bit of honey. Okay. But generally, native bees are solitary and they don't make honey,

but they do gather pollen to feed their young. So, for a mason bee, for example, when they lay their egg, they'll put a little pollen packet right next to it, and then they mud off its chamber. So, it's in its own little crib with this pollen packet. That's so cute, it wakes up and lunch is made. That's so adorable. So, you see the mason bees flying into the tube with the big pack of pollen on their belly.

You know, they're providing for their babies. That's so cute, like a little Lunchables. Heather McCain, oh, Heather McCain wants to know if you've ever seen a beehive like in an abandoned vehicle or something cool like that. No, I have not. Can you imagine? You're like, that's a sweet old Dotson and you're like, it's covered in bees. No, I did get a swarm call, but this kind of has a very sad ending.

But the guy was at Costco and a swarm landed on his car and he didn't know what to do. So, he went through the car wash and then went through again and the bees were still, obviously a lot of them had come up, but there was still some hanging on. So, he drove home and it's like going on the freeway and the bees are still hanging on and he gets home and there's this sad clump of bees and then he calls this swarm hotline. And I got the call and I knew when I saw the description of it that it wasn't going to be good, but I thought, okay, well, this is, I always look at it as like a teaching opportunity.

So, I went and he told me what happened and I'm just like, my jaw is on the floor. Really, guy? This is really sad and he felt really awful when he realized, had he called then from the Costco parking lot, somebody would have shown up and gotten them and they would have been fine. What kind of car was it? Some sedan. Some sedan. Her level of rada stain is honestly deeply endearing.

Did the queen bee somehow get caught in his sedan? I don't know why they choose their muster point. I don't know what the criteria is, but they happened to land there and maybe she had gotten stuck. She's like, death by Camry. Kimberly Brown wants to know, how would I start up my own hive and are there better climates to have a hive? I have no idea where Kimberly Brown lives.

I have beekeeper friends all over the place. I have a beekeeper friend in Rhode Island and their winters are really harsh. It can be done. I would just try and find bees that were raised locally if you're going to buy bees and do your research ahead of time, take some bee classes, join the local bee club, make some bee friends, you'll be fine. Our bee friends, pretty cool friends. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, totally. Bee friends are the best friends. Oh, have you made a lot of friends through the Portland Urban Bee Club? Yes. Absolutely. How many members do you have? We have between two and 300 members.

Whoa. Yeah. That's a lot of people. It's a lot of people. And you're a law president. Big deal. Jill Kerswell wants to know, is the human consumption of honey good or bad for bee populations?

On the one hand, we're farming them and creating safe spaces for them to live, but on the other hand, we're stealing all their magical juices. So we can kind of cover this if you're going to keep bees in your backyard. How is there a medium where let's say you want to use the honey, but you only take a little bit of it? Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah, certainly you could do that.

But I would wait until you have experience reading the hive, because one year might be very prolific in honey and nectar gathering. The next year might be a total bust. It just depends. It depends so much on the weather and the health of the colony. So once you learn how to read those things, then you can make your own decision of, can I take a little bit without hurting them too bad? You're like, just do a waggle dance and be like, yes or no.

Are you vegetarian or vegan at all or? I'm not vegan, but my tattoo artist is a vegan. And we had this discussion about what about honey? Mm-hmm. And the same thing applies to beeswax as well, because it's a byproduct. And her feeling was, I might eat honey from your bees, because I know that they've been treated well. Oh.

But buying honey from the grocery store, definitely no. Okay, so know your sources. Yeah. And John Worcester and Jesse Pio both had the same question, will eating honey that's been harvested locally help if you have seasonal allergies? Word on the street is that it does. So it gets your body used to maybe those pollens. Exactly.

Okay. I'm not an allergist, but yes, it's like you're inoculating yourself with the irritant and your immune system addressed to that rather than taking an antihistamine to just suppress any kind of response. Right, that's good too. I looked up some studies on the National Institutes of Health and yes, apparently this does have merit. The control subjects were given honey-flavored corn syrup and they had more allergic rhinitis

symptoms than those given local honey, which in terms of being in like a test subject in a medical lab, I had to say like eating honey seemed like you lucked out. There's a lot of worse things someone could do to you in a medical lab, you know? Katie Grant wants to know, are bees actually more attracted to bright yellow clothing? I wear a safety vest for work and was told that an orange vest won't attract bees like a yellow one does. Is this true? In my own personal experience, when I wear my bright yellow coat, I do have bees land on me.

Wow. Maybe it's because you look like pollen and I don't know. Well, okay, so there's some experience with that. I think there is something to that. Apparently, yes, it's just because you look like a flower, folks. So a yellow shirt around a bee is kind of like wearing a salmon outfit and being like, what are all these bears staring at? Jared wants to know, I've read that bee species will gather in a ball and increase the local

temperature in order to cook wasps and other invaders. Yes. Japanese hornets. So what is that mechanism and how do they not cook themselves in the process? It's called balling. Boom. Yeah, appropriate. And so they will use their body heat to cook the predator.

They will also use this technique. If they are trying to kill a new queen that's been introduced, if they don't like her, they will ball her. And I don't know how they don't cook each other. I imagine it's because they're moving around and they're not in the center of that heat sphere. Oh my God, ball so hard. That is extreme. They cook them.

They cook them. And then they put them on the doorstep. They're like, you out. You're out. I've heard that Japanese hornets, that's one way that bees can kill them. Yeah. I've seen them do it to yellow jackets in my own yard. How do you feel about wasps in general?

There are wasps that I like, paper wasps. I have a few nests around my yard and under the eaves of my house. They generally stay very small and they pollinate and they also eat aphids. I find them to be very beneficial. But when it comes to yellow jackets, I draw the line. Are they mean? They're mean. They're not pollinating.

They go after the beehive and they will go in in numbers and they can wipe out a hive that's weak. So yeah. And that's a hard thing because as a beekeeper, you hear all these stories from people. Oh, I hate bees. They were at my picnic and they were stinging everybody. Those were yellow jackets. I could just say hands down. I don't even need to see it.

I know just from that account. It's not a bee, it's a yellow jacket. And the two, I think, get confused a lot. Right. Stripes, yellow. Yes. They're about the same size. They sting, but the reality is that they are enemies.

Wow. They are enemies to each other. It's like two women on the bachelor who look alike, but they hate each other. Yeah. Bitch. Now, yellow jackets tend to go for like proteins and sugars and stuff. Yes. But bees are out there for the flowers.

They're out there for the flowers. They don't eat meat. They're just plant-loving insects. I was a caterer for TV when I first moved to LA and I learned this piconic trick. So if yellow jackets who are mostly carnivores are trying to eat your food, it can help to lob a slice of lunch meat off to the side so that they all swarm that and then they leave your lunch alone. But you do have to look over from time to time and just to like check on this piece of baloney

writhing with them. It's like a miniature asshole convention. Oh, speaking of miniatures, Amanda became interested in bees and other insects later in her life, partly because as a kid she loved miniatures and bees are pretty small. She works in a winery during the day when she's not busy being the president of the beekeepers club and she also loves making art and ceramics. I'm an artist so when I have spare time I disappear in my art studio and make things. Do you make a lot of bee art?

I do, yeah. And I have my tree hive is right outside of my art studio so I can sit there and stare at it. She sent me a photo and it's amazing. It's just like a tree with this hollow, the edges of which are softly carpeted in bees. Her Portland life sounds idyllic. Is there a downside to all of this? And now what do you find is the most annoying thing about bees or about beekeeping or about your role as president of the beekeepers?

If there was something super annoying about beekeeping, it would be that it just gets so hot in those bee suits. There is no other time that I sweat, except for when I'm keeping bees in the summertime and I've got all my gear on. I have yet to be bold enough or comfortable enough to just go out and be topless with my bees. So my new beekeeping. So maybe in years and years, but it takes a while I'm sure to navigate psychologically what puts you in a little bit of danger, right?

Yeah, absolutely. Do people ever put ice packs in their bee outfits? I've heard of this. Yeah, I haven't tried it. I don't know. Maybe I should. Just like strap yourself with ice vest underneath. And what is your favorite thing about bees?

I love this thing that they do called festooning. What? Yeah. I'm sorry. I don't know why I made that noise. I was surprised. What is it? Festooning is when they're building new comb.

So they have to work together to do this. And what they do is they join hands and they make this lovely little chain. And then bees gather together in the chain and they excrete the wax from their abdomen and they pass it up to the bees up top. So they are working together while in contact with each other to make this comb. What? And they make the chain so that it's plumb to the earth. So it's straight.

So they know and it's just and the comb when it's brand new is beautiful. It's very translucent. It's so delicate and perfect. Oh, wow. They make it perfect. In the wild, the honeycombs are the architectural really oddly shaped. It looks like draped fabric. Yes.

Like what is that called? What is that called? It's just the way that they it's because of their their chain. They're the little best student they make. So they use that to guide the shape. Now in the bee boxes that we keep bees in when they're building their comb, it does start out at that way, but then they end up filling in the extra spaces. So it doesn't keep that nice draped shape.

I always wondered about that. And inside of a say a tree hive, though, it might be. They can make it however they want. Yeah, there are no rules. No rules in the tree hive. I did not know festooning was even a word. Just look this up. And if the stoon is a chain or a garland of flowers or ribbons hung in a curve like a decoration.

So if you Google image search it, a bunch of Pinterest photos of cute twinkly lights hung on patios comes up. And I'm not kidding. Twinkly lights and bees are like my favorite things. This episode couldn't be more my jam. OK, speaking of favorite words, Amanda's beekeeping consultation company, she runs on the side, is called, you ready for this? Waggle works.

How did you pick that name? I love the waggle dance. And I think of myself. I'm not a queen bee. I think of myself as a worker bee. Really? Yeah. Do you think of people in your life in terms of kind of like different social structures of bees?

Sure. Or other insects. That guy's a total caterpillar. Does that mean they get better with age? Yeah. I hope you don't encounter too many wasps. To find out more about Amanda and her bees, go to waggleworkspdx.com, or you can find waggleworks on Facebook.

And to learn more about beekeeping, both native and honey beekeeping, definitely look around for a local club or try to connect to some other beekeepers online. And as always, links from this episode are up at alleyward.com slash oligies. And you can follow the podcast oligies on Instagram and Twitter. It's just at oligies. I'm on there too at alleyward with 1L. There's also plenty of amazing t-shirts and oligies phone cases and baby onesies and pins at oligiesmerch.com.

Thank you, Shannon Feltas and Bonnie Dutch for helping so much with that. And to support even 25 cents an episode, you can go to patreon.com slash oligies. This is an entirely independently made podcast and it's funded just by listeners like you to help pay folks to make it happen each week. I could not do this without the incredible Stephen Ray Morris who worked so hard to cut it all up. He edited it all together based on a 25 page annotated transcript. I sent him at like 2 a.m. on a Thursday night.

Now, the theme song was written and performed by Nick Thorburn of the Ban Islands. And thank you, Erin Talbert and new Boston resident Hannah Lipo for adminning the oligies podcast Facebook group where all the chill folks post all kinds of cool links and chat about episodes. Now, if this is not your first oligies rodeo, you know that I tell a secret at the end of each episode. If you made it through the credits, as thank you. And this week, I'm here to tell you that I went on a trip three weeks ago, just a weekend

trip to Palm Springs, celebrated a friend's birthday. I have not unpacked that bag. I'm staring at it. It has been packed for almost a month. I don't know what's in there. Apparently I can live without it. And every single day I look at that duffel bag and I'm like, god damn it. Allie just unpacked that duffel bag.

And I'm like, no, not today. Maybe tomorrow. Okay. Bye bye. I'm the queen now, bitch.