Ologies with Alie Ward - Mephitology (SKUNKS) with Jerry Dragoo

Episode Date: August 19, 2026

It’s here. SKUNKS. My dream guest, Dr. Jerry Dragoo of the Institute for the Betterment of Skunks and Skunk Reputations is finally on Ologies, and I can barely contain myself. Come to Albuquerque to meet this Mephitological legend. In this very special and precious 2-part series, we’ll explore tiny baby skunks, spotted ones, cartoon skunks, skunk spray remedies, skunks and astronauts, how to get sprayed by a skunk, how *not* to get sprayed, what skunk spray tastes like, how much it costs to purchase, how their populations are doing, skunks vs. snakes, who eats skunks, island skunks, rehabbing skunks, pet skunks, actress skunks, mating trivia, and so much more. Also: the nipples you never want to meet.  Check out the Dragoo Institute for the Betterment of Skunks and Skunk Reputations A donation went to Friends of Big Bear Valley “We Meet At Last” skunk shirt by jbstink.com More episode sources and links Other episodes you may enjoy: Zoohoplology (ANIMAL DEFENSES), Procyonology (RACCOONS), Sciuridology (SQUIRRELS), Lutrinology (OTTERS), Mammalogy (MAMMALS), Road Ecology (ROAD KILL), Discard Anthropology (GARBAGE), Indigenous Fashionology (NATIVE CLOTHING), Literary Olfactology (THE POLITICS OF SMELL), Disgustology (REPULSION TO GROSS STUFF) 400+ Ologies episodes sorted by topic Smologies (short, classroom-safe) episodes Sponsors of Ologies Transcripts and bleeped episodes Become a patron of Ologies for as little as a buck a month OlogiesMerch.com has hats, shirts, hoodies, totes! Follow Ologies on Instagram and Bluesky Follow Alie Ward on Instagram and TikTok Editing by Mercedes Maitland of Maitland Audio Productions and Jake Chaffee Managing Director: Susan Hale Scheduling Producer: Noel Dilworth Transcripts by Aveline Malek  Website by Kelly R. Dwyer Theme song by Nick Thorburn Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Oh, hey, it's your brother's best friend's girlfriend, who is a chatbot, Allie Ward. And I have mentioned this ologist on the podcast numerous times. Every time someone asks, who's your dream guest? It's this guest. They founded the Institute for the Betterment of Skunks and Skunk Reputations. God has been PhD studying Skunks at Texas A&M University has been featured on PBS, various TV shows, high-profile periodicals, even has a character named after him in a children's book called A.N.M. bat. His website notes that he is a mephatologist. I have emailed. I have found old

disconnected landlines and called in vain. I have found his spouse's work Instagram and DM'd to no avail. I have begged a friend and a guest of the show, Dr. Ted Stankowich, to put in a good word. And I finally convinced him how much we needed him on the show and we secured an episode. I traveled to New Mexico with your podmother, Jarrett, who made me. me a shirt with a drawing of a baby skunk and the words we meet at last. And I showed up at the appointed time and place 10 minutes early, which we spent scouring the parking lot for a glimpse of his legendary car. But before we meet this incredibly endearing guest and hop into part one of this two-part series. First, a quick thank you to everyone who supports Ologies on Patreon and

leaves us reviews, such as this recent one from Brando, who wrote that Ologies is the only podcast, I would recommend to my best friend. And wish on my greatest enemy since everyone deserves to learn. Also, thank you to sponsors of ologies for enabling us to donate to a cause of the ologies choosing each week. Okay, so we're in New Mexico. I'm in a zoo parking lot. I have just spotted the elusive and deeply humble, the world's finest mephatologist. Are you Jerry? With lovely, wind-swept silver white hair and a tidy beard. He wore a Western shirt, slim jeans,

and a golden belt buckle featuring a skunk. We're outside a zoo where he works and where his wife recently retired from is head vet tech. There's a walkie-talkie. It's crackling on his hip. The moment had finally arrived. We meet at last.

Hello, sir. It's great to meet you. This is my husband, Jared. Jared. It's great to meet you. It's great to meet you. We're obviously very excited. I'm sure you'll get over that.

I had Jared make me this shirt for today. That's a skunk. Yeah, I'd recognize it. I understand that you have a skunk's license plate. You want to see it? Yeah. Of course I want to see it. An El Camino-looking Subaru.

Car in the front, truck bed in the back. It's a mullet of vehicles with a personalized license plate. Spectacular. Wow. That's a great car. That's a place to clutch. The gear shifter fell apart. and then I had to take back and fell apart again.

Can I take a picture with you in front of your skunk's license, wait? Yes. Yes. That used to say I stopped for road kills. So we headed out of the summer Albuquerque sun and into an air-conditioned conference room to chat about tiny baby skunks, spotted ones, cartoon skunks, skunks and astronauts,

how to get sprayed by a skunk, how not to get sprayed by a skunk. What skunk spray tastes like? How much it costs to purchase it, newly classified, skunks, how their populations are doing, international fame because of skunks. Skunks versus snakes. Who eats skunks? Island skunks? Field work on skunks. How to recover from a dowsing, rehabbing skunks. Can you have one as a pet? Skunks on film, mating trivia. Skunks making friends and so much more in this very special and precious two-parter with the charming, dryly hilarious and deeply knowledgeable mephatologist.

dream guest, Dr. Jerry Dragoo, he him. Jerry, Dragoo. Okay. I wasn't sure if I was saying it wrong all these years, this mythical skunk figure. And so here we are. We're in Albuquerque and we're at the zoo here. But this isn't always what you've done is work with skunks. And I'm curious how your life in New Mexico came to be where you're known as someone who started like a group for the betterment and the reputation of skunks. You obviously are a friend to skunks. How did you wind up doing that?

I needed a website. Somebody published a magazine article. Uh-huh. I wanted to contact me, so I just created a website. Mm-hmm. Dragoo.org? Yeah. Much more on that magazine article later.

It's bonkers. And it's specifically the Drago Institute for the Betterment of Skunks and Skunk Reputations. And do skunks need help with betterment and reputations? Probably. Yeah. They do have a bad reputation for spraying the odor and then also rabies. They're a rabies vector. Is that all?

Do you remember what the magazine article was about? It was about me and skunks. So you needed a place for people. could go. Yeah. Was it about the betterment of skunks and skunk reputations? Yeah, that's usually what I talk about, so. No one's ever come to you to trash talk skunks? Well, I've had a lot of people come up and tell me they've shot them and run them over and all this other kind of stuff. How do you respond to that? People do what people do. Do you think that that happens more where people have like chickens or livestock or something? Not so much livestock, but

chickens possibly. If they can get in there, they might do some damage. Yeah. And I had a woman who contacted me one time said that she had 20 raccoons in her backyard and there was a skunk that came in was eating their food. Eating the raccoons food? Yeah, I said, you don't have a skunk problem. You have a raccoon problem. Do you say maybe just get one cat, keep it inside? That'll do it. And actually, skunks and cats will interact a lot better than dogs and cats. Is that because dogs are just too excited to meet one? The excitement, the big lumbering tail wagging, tongue wagging, that's kind of a threat.

Whereas cats just kind of wander up and do the same thing. They're a little more coy. Yeah. What are they closer to, from an evolutionary standpoint? Are they more feline? Are they more canine? Or is just like weasel family right down the middle of the road? They're on the dog side of the order.

Oh, okay. They are canoformies on the dog side. And there's a group called the musteloid. masteloidia. That includes the skunks, red pandas, raccoons, and then weasels. And skunks were the first to branch off. And is that why they had more time to just develop these amazing butt glands? All carnivores have st. Glance. And they use them for, most of them use them for territory marking boundaries and all that kind of stuff and just also advertising just I'm here. Hello.

And then skunks just kind of developed them as more of a defense mechanism. They took the idea and ran with it. So I don't know if the early skunks were that way, and the ones that first branched off. I don't know when that actually developed because that doesn't really fossilize that well. Yeah. So I'm not actually sure when those glands became a defense mechanism. And is it true that what comes out of a skunk's anal gland is like gatorade yellow? Is it really bright colored?

I call it anal sac amber. Amelanel sack, amber. Oh, God. Is it thick or is it thin? Yes. The little ones, when they first start, it is more of a globular kind of a thing. And as I get older, it tends to be more liquid. But it is still, it's very oily.

Oh, that's how it sticks to things? Yep. Is it oily? Yep. Oh, because I've had to do my dog's butt glands before and that wasn't fun. Yeah, whenever you have to express those things, it's pretty nasty for all carnivores. Do they have bigger sacks to hold it? Because, like, I don't know how much comes out. Relative to their body size, yes.

Yeah, like size of a plum, say? Oh, so they've got some fuel in the tank. We pulled about 60 cc's out of one gland. That's quite a lot. That's a lot of lip filler, I imagine, like, if people need that as a syringe full. So 60 CC that amounts to about 12 teaspoons were 60 injections of lip filler. Now, if you want to, you can buy pure skunk essence straight from the gland. The Minnesota Trapline Products website shows that it'll set you back about 60 bucks. Now, 60cc of lip filler, however, could cost you $48,000. So that's one point for skunks.

And so did you grow up going outdoors a lot? Were you always an outdoorsy kid? Were you someone who was looking at the stars or looking for bugs under rocks? Like how did nature play such a big part in your life? I spent most of my life indoors. Really? Yeah. My dad was in the Air Force and we were overseas.

We went camping a lot. But mainly was just camping, having fun, going out and doing stuff. Yeah. It wasn't until I got to Albuquerque when he retired. that actually started going for hiking up into the mountains and everything. I used to fall down all the time because I used to walk in on flat surfaces. And so I'd go out walking, a trip and fall. I'd go out walk and trip and fall.

But I always liked watching a lot of animal shows on TV. And I said, well, I think I just want to work with animals. I loved those too. Back when the nature channels were documentaries about animals and not just like a pawn shop or, you know, ice road truckers, I miss the documentaries about animals. So I used to watch those all the time. I said, yeah.

And then he was like, oh, what can I do? Mm-hmm. I was like, well, I can be a vet, I guess. But most of the vets were dog and cat. Kind of like to your basic animals here, so. But you mentioned your wife was a vet tech? Yes. Yeah?

And so did you meet through skunks, or how did you guys meet? She's going to kill me. Oh, yeah? She stalked me for two years. Oh, well, the best of us do, Jerry Drogoo. I stalked you for six. So I'm not going to get in line. So Jerry and Gwen Dragoo have been together for decades, having met through lab work at Texas A&M University.

And the way that he talks about Gwen is still very sweet and crushy. What are her version of events? Oh, you'd have to ask her. I think, I'm sure they're different. How long have you guys been together? 34 years and 24 days. Oh, who's counting? Well, I have an Excel file that I'm doing day stuff on.

I just looked out of this. Oh, I guess so it's working out so far. Yeah. Yeah. And she's also obviously an animal person. Yes. Right? Yeah.

Once you left Texas A&M, like when did you kind of narrow your focus to certain animals or, you know, certain research? You've also worked around the space program. How does this mosaic of your history come together? So in 89, I was working on my PhD. And one of my former students who was in the mammal class was working as an animal control officer in the Houston area. And she called me up and said, we've got a skunk problem at the Johnson Space Center. Can you come and help? And I said, yeah, sure.

So I showed up. Went to the Johnson Space Center. Got me a badge and went through the security thing and everything. And I'm wearing holy jeans and cut off Levi jacket. Baseball cap. I had goggles around my neck, had my running shoes on, drove my truck onto their site, and spent the night. I guess these skunks were going under the astronaut quarters, the astronaut offices. Oh, my God.

And they were creating poems. And so they wanted to know if I could do some. So I walked over there, look where they're at. And I sifted this dirt around and then kind of smoothed it out so I could see if there were footprints. Oh. And then I started wandering around, looking around. I found scat. And then I said, okay, I want to set a trap here and walked around.

I'm on set a trap here, right here, and I'm a set a trap here. And then I just spent the night kind of wandering around, and I went back to the hole. You could see that the animal had come out. And then probably about, I don't know, 3.30 in the morning, see this thing traipsing back towards the offices. And I just made a beeline for it. Started running after it. And just reached down and grabbed it by the tail, picked it up, put it in a carrier and caught it. Did it spray you?

Of course, yeah. skunks do that. When you go running after them, that's what they do. There's skugs. I don't know. I thought maybe you had some magic. So is there only one skunk under there?

Yeah, well, just the one that we caught. And I showed them how in the future they can look for things and blocking up the holes and the times of years they should do it and all that kind of stuff. Is that where they like to do they like to burrow under things? Like where are they living? They like when other things burrow for them. Oh, got it. They can dig their own, but they'll usually find whatever's available.

And a lot of times they'll get under sheds, under buildings, all stuff like that. What about in nature? Is there like a badger hole and they go, oh, that's empty or a gopher tortoise hole or something? Yeah, more likely a tortoise hole, but a badger might give them some trouble. What in the hell has happened? Is that a badger fighting three skunks? Oh, phew. Yeah, any hole that they can get into.

Squirrel holes, they'll widen them out a little bit. Do they ever, like, scratch out their own, or is too much work? Well, they can. A lot of times they may just hunker down close to the top of the ground. But depending on the climate, what time of year it is, where they're at. When mom's kicking the youngsters out, they might just spend the night on the ground. And then eventually, once they find their home range, I'll start making more permanent rather than... Do they have roommates or do they live in their own little holes?

Yes, depends on where you are. Do different species do it differently? I'm thinking mainly the striped skunks. Up north, they will tend to den together, a lot of females. Maybe a male will be in that group where it's colder. And so they're conserving body heat by forming these little sleeping groups, I guess. Yeah, those little cuddle puddles. It's what they call them in science. And so we're in New Mexico. Are they a North and South American species? Like, where are skunks? In North America, there's several spotted skunks, striped and hooded skunks, hog-nosed skunk, the striped hog-nosed skunk. In North America, in Central America, we have hootis skunk and some striped skunk. And then you get another species of hog-nose skunk, a striped hog-nose skunk. And then you go all the way down to Argentina. You've got another hog-nose skunk down there. Does a hog-nose skunk have a nose like a hog? It's kind of elongated. They do a lot of rooting around, digging up and everything.

Is that what that's for? Yeah. What are they eating skunks in general? Because I saw a question from a listener about its chickens getting eaten. And I, for some reason, thought skunks were out there nibbling on grass. And maybe that's because they're Bambi, maybe because they're so cute. I know the different species eat different things. But in general, are they mostly carnivores or are they omnivores?

Well, they're in the order of carnivora. So obviously they're probably going to eat something like that. But they are kind of omnivorous. And they will eat bugs, insects, vegetables. fruits, all that kind of stuff. The striped skunks. Spotted skunks tend to be a little more carnivorous, but they will still eat all that same stuff. I mean, when we're feeding them, we feed them corn and peas and carrots and some turkey meat in there and stuff like that.

Before we started recording, Jerry mentioned an eddy-bitty baby skunk who landed in his care. You mentioned Thumbolina, who thought she was a pet. What does a skunk who thinks they're a pet, how did they behave? Very pet-like. Very pet-like. Yeah, Thumbulina came to us really, really tiny. That's obviously how she got her name. And we had another animal.

It was like three weeks younger than she was like three times as big. We were afraid to release her that season because she's not going to make it like this. And so we just ended up keeping her. And again, if you're going to rehab animals, I don't recommend you start keeping her animals. But again, we kind of sort of knew what we were doing. Yeah, yeah. But my wife's a vet tax, so we had a little bit. Yeah.

And so we just started taking care of her. and then she'd come out, we'd give her treats and make little toys for her to run around. And, of course, there was a couple other animals with her. If you watch the PBS nature show, there's a skunk in there that is interacting with a rattlesnake. When this rattler smells what's passing by, it recognizes a threat and goes silent to avoid detection.

In a direct confrontation, it's the rattlesnake that is likely to lose. You know, it's TV interacting. Yeah, that's Thumbolina. They rely so heavily on those scent glands. They're usually not concerned that anything's really going to bother them. The skunk may be on the side of the road forging or getting ready to cross. Big car comes along at a high speed. They're likely just to put their tail up and spray.

There's a car coming down the dirt road and she's on the side of the road. That's stumbling. So she's an actress? Yes. I could have died out there, but I'm an actress. And unfortunately, she's an old. longer with us. She had a pancreatic tumor and that was creating, she was producing lots of insulin, but we got her on a drug that kind of slows down the insulin production and we put her on four

small meals a day. And so that she was constantly eating, but also slowed down her insulin production. She lived another skunk's lifetime. How long do they live? The average is like three, four years. But again, that's when you think about the bulk of the population is these young and those don't ever make it. Once they get to adulthood, they can go for several years. Yeah. So she was about a little over eight years old, I think, when she finally went. Did you bond over that?

We bonded a long time before that happened, yeah. Yeah, she would sit in her lap. Did you have to dissent her? No. No, she just didn't spray you. We descended a couple animals early on. But again, they only spray if they fear for their life. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Some are easier to scare than others. That makes sense. I think it was actually Thumbelina who came in. we were taking care of a baby kangaroo, and we were bottle feeding. And we had this little coat hanger with a little pouch, and the kangaroo was sitting the pouch, and so we were hand-raising this thing. And Gwen was feeding it in the bathroom, and thumbling that snuck under the bathroom door. And boom, there's a kangaroo, and there's a thug.

Boom. That's probably the first time in 40 million years of a kangaroo had ever been sprayed by. I was going to say, like, what's happening to? Like, not prepared. So yeah, no skunks down in Australia. I would feel bad for you, but you have wombats. But skunks tend to live in the Americas from Canada down to South America. And the striped, hooded, and hog-nosed skunks are all about the same size, roughly 10 pounds or 4.5 kilos.

But with some variation overlap between the species. Like think of a Pomeranian with short legs and an odorous on board. weapon. Now, striped skunks, they have the very distinct V of white fur along their back, but in the wild, they could be all black or all white. There's variations. And their species is mephitis mephitis, which means stinky stink. It's mean. Now, hooded skunks, they're on the smaller size. They can have two white gracing stripes, or they might have one thick one, starting at the head, hence hooded. They live in Mexico, and they have the softest fur of most skunks. Don't put that to the test.

Now, there are four species of the hog-nosed skunks, and they range from Texas all the way down to Patagonia. And their stripe patterns can vary a lot, but they have the distinction of a long pink, a little upturned pencil eraser-looking nose. They're hard to look at because you want to kiss them on the nosy, but once again, you cannot. Now, we're going to chat more about spotted skunks. There are seven recognized species. They live throughout North America and Central America, even on a few islands off the coast of California, and they're the smallest of the Mepinidae critters. Most are about the size of a chunky squirrel, but there is a pygmy version.

It's along the western coast of Mexico, and it is palm-sized. It could live in your pocket if you were a Disney. princess who liked to smell bad. Okay, so that is all of them, right? Nope. In 1997, a journal of mammology paper titled Systematics of Musilid-like Carnivores was Dr. Dragoo's landmark paper. He wanted to call it a skunk by any other name, but his advisor advised against anything fun or catchy. But this work alongside colleague Dr. Rodney Honeycutt was a breakthrough for skunks, reclassifying a creature known as the stink badger. Okay, stink badger. Stink badger, what's up? There's two different species in the Philippines. If they've been around for 40 million years, they could have covered a lot of

territory, and that was just an isolated population there. Yeah. What is a stink badger? It's in the skunk family. Is it a skunk or is it a badger? It's a skunk. It looks a lot like a hog-nosed skunk. Oh, why do they call it a sting badger? Well, because they also look like badgers. The hog-nose skunks are more badger-like. They got really muscular forearms and So it is a skunk. It's not a badger. It is not a badger. It's just called a stink badger. Because it used to be. It used to be in that subfamily. Oh, it's got a, it's got a snoot nose. It's so cute. And so those, are those only in the Philippines? Yeah, Sumatra, Java, that area.

And they still have the anal glands and everything? Well, I sent a colleague out there, Adam Ferguson. I'm going to mention his name because he had one task. Okay. I sent him there to look for those nipples on the scentlands. Yeah. I didn't actually send him. He was with the Field Museum. You say, listen, listen, while you're out there, do, check out these butt-knitles.

I sent him to Africa to do the same thing with the striped pole cat, the weasels, to see if they had the dimples associated with because they're black and white. They look a lot like spotted skunks. But he didn't do it. Someone, you think you can trust someone while you're out there. Hey, do me a solid. Will you? Get up in the butt and check for me. You really know who your friends are when you...

It's like, can I vote you as my emergency contact? And will you check for nipples on the butt glands? No hard feelings, of course. In fact, to this day, Jerry is good friends with Dr. Adam Ferguson and Dr. Robert Deller. The three of them meet up every week and are collaborating on a skunk book. And Jerry warned me, however, don't go to the bookstore tomorrow because they're nowhere near done writing it yet. Dr. Drago who's taught me skunks is worth the weight. But yeah, stink badgers, actually skunks, and they are small boys with kind of tiger-striped rumps.

They got stumpy tails, and they have a cute little rat-faced nose. In the Philippines, they're called patotte or toul-do, and those words derive from stink and finger. And I had never seen a picture of a stink badger, and unfortunately, I am in love with them as well. I promised that we would address the spotties. And the spotted skunks, adorable. Are they smaller? Yeah, they're about half the size, maybe. So a spotted skunk is like the size of a kitten, almost, like as long as a kitten?

I try not to compare skunks to cats. That's a good point. That's a good point. We'll say a bread roll. We'll say a Subway sandwich. When I see a picture of a scotted skunk, it looks like a cartoon. They're so cute. Jerry pulled up his phone's camera roll, which has a lot of skunk.

pictures. Let's see. Okay. There's one doing a handstand. They're so cute. They're so cute. It's doing a handstand. You're showing me this picture. It's got a few bands of spots. It's got a ponytail on its butt that looks like a pom-pom. It's doing a handstand. That's his tail. It looks like a point. It's inverted because it's doing a yoga pose. Is this a threat display? Because I'm not threatened. I'm charmed, utterly. It makes them look bigger. Yeah, it does. And maybe there's eye spots up there on his rope.

And it kind of makes it like, okay, now that's, if that's the head, I'm not sure I want to tackle this. So a little two-pound squirrel-sized bread roll, spotty, fluffy-tailed spotted skunk uses the handstand to one, probably show off because it's a pretty sick move. And two, appear like a bigger giant-headed creature covered in outside. eyes like a biblically accurate angel with a terribly smelly butt. If I flip my eyes and I make it look like that is a monster with eyes and a huge head, that is terrifying. I'm not going to, if the legs of the arms coming after me, that is terrifying. But I know it's game. So I just can only say, that's adorable. Keep trying. Are spotted skunks, are they endangered? Are they threatened? Or are they just more rare in general? I would have to say yes again.

The eastern species were considered being listed. And so they've been doing research on that. And then you got the island species in California. Oh, yes. On the Catalina Islands, right? So yes, news to me as a Southern Californian, there are smaller, shorter-tailed, spotted skunks, chilling. Off the coast, right off a coast,

in some coastal islands living their best lives. For the one to two brief years, they survive in the wild. But according to a 2021 paper in Southeastern Naturalist titled Reexamination of the purported rapid population decline of plain spotted skunks in the mid-20th century, some populations of spotted skunks have declined by nearly 90% since the 1940s from, yep, yes, of course, humans. So we bring animals that have diseases and we spray pesticides, alter local ecology for agriculture, and I guess some of, us hate skunks. Not me. Is it mostly habitat loss or is it people getting freaked out and killing them? Probably a little of it both. Yeah. Bummer. A lot of the farmers used to like these guys because they would hang around silo, grain silos and eat the mice. And so they're great mousers and so the farmer, or they're, yeah, let's go ahead and keep those guys around. Yeah.

But they're also less likely to be out in the daytime. You're more likely to see the striped skunks out during the day and hog-nosed skunks a little bit bigger. These guys are a little more secretive. They're also three-dimensional. So they go up. They're not just on the ground. They're also, they're very good climbers. Do they live in trees? Are they arboreal or they're just capable of it? Yeah, they're capable of it. I didn't realize that because I only see skunks scuttling around the ground. Let's talk stripes for a minute. Are they black with white stripes? Are they white with black stripes or you know how they say like polar bears are not actually white they just have clear hair what's going on under their fur would you see stripes if they shaped their whole body

they are born pink and white so the pink is where the black hairs are coming and whites where the white hairs come in oh my gosh and is that evolutionarily to tell their foes like don't mess with me that's what I was brought up to believe. It is just kind of a warning, but it also could break up their pattern. In a moonlit night and you're going through the forest area, you'll see, it'd be harder to see them. Yeah.

But then if you come right up on them, boom, there's black and white. I don't want to mess with that. Is it true that the spotted skunks aren't spotted, but they have stripes that are broken up or something? Broken up spots, yeah. There's about a series of six different stripes that are broken up. So is that like plaid? Are they plaid kind of with like, you know how some stripes going this way, some stripes going that way? Plad skunks. I don't think that name's

going to catch one. I don't think it's going to catch on. So yes, spotted skunks are first striped and then striped the other way to create sort of a marbled, tied eye, black and white pattern, which works kind of like eye spots on a moth. I like to think of them as gingham rather than striped. Myself is so scary. And if you were to gaze at photos of baby skunks, you would see little naked squirrel-looking squirmers with kind of grayish black skin and sunburned-looking pink where all the white hair will grow in. And is it true that they have little pink bare feet? They have like little cute little pink feet? Oh, God, that's so cute.

I'm curious about some of your skunk encounters in the wild. What does your fieldwork look like? Are you doing it mostly locally? Are you having to travel for it? Are you setting up camera traps and then analyzing them later? Like, what does field work look like if you're a skunk scientist? It depends kind of like on what you're doing. My work was primarily genetics.

And I was also mentioned population genetics. So I needed samples. And there weren't a lot of samples in museums. Well, that's not true. I mean, there's a lot of skeletal material, and I've looked at skulls and measured skulls and compared populations. But in order to do the genetic work, I actually needed genetic samples. And so I had to go out and collect them. I spent a lot of time in South Texas looking for them.

Spent some time in New Mexico. And pretty much any time I was going out, I was looking for something. And you showed me your car, which is an awesome Subaru Baja, so it's got a four-door, but it also... has a truck bed in the back. And you mentioned to me in the parking lot that that was helpful for having skunk traps in there. Yep. You had to put your field gear in there and pack it up. If you are out doing fieldwork to collect some samples, are you setting them and then waiting all night? Like, do you have a thermos of coffee? Are you coming back in the morning to see if you had any customers overnight? Do you have to be a night owl? Yeah, in the middle of the night,

I'm driving around looking for skunks because that's when they're out. That's their time being out. But I would spend a lot of my time driving around. Yeah. Because I'm trapping, you can set them and you may or may not catch anything. And in driving around, if I see something, I can run it down. Yeah. And then I'm specific to that species.

I don't have to worry about catching cats or opossums or raccoons or foxes, anything like that. Do you ever have to sample the genomics of roadkill? Yeah. Yeah. That is what you did. I had the bumper stickers that I stopped for roadkill. You do stop for roadkill. I talked to an opossum expert who has to take a whole punch out of the ear when she sees roadkill.

And she wears a safety vest so people don't ask her any questions. So I should ask, when it comes to their populations, how are they doing? Do they do better in urban areas where there's plenty of places, sheds to hide under? There's oranges falling in people's backyards. There's garbage. Are they starting to thrive more in urban settings? The striped skunks do. They tend to do well in human environments.

And for just that reason, food, water, shelter. That's what they're looking for. And then mates as well. And they can find all that in a small area. They don't need as big of a home range. They don't have to go as far. And so populations will increase in those situations. Are they good for eating slugs in your garden and stuff?

Yes. A lot of times when they tear up gardens, they're not actually going for the plants or the roots. They're going for the grubs that are in the ground. So you know you've got grubs if you've got skunks that are digging up your garden. Is it compost heap fun for them? Because there's got to be a lot of grubs in there, right? That's probably stuff that they can dig around in there.

Oh. And then, of course, the ripe fruits and vegetables, they'll eat that stuff. Usually if it's falling off, they'll eat that too. I wonder, well, Ivy, I thought this was really sweet, was how do I protect them from the road traffic? Can I divert them back to my ground nesting yellow jackets? Which I imagine they like to eat ground nesting yellow jackets? Yeah, if they can get them. And they get them?

Do they get stung or their fur so thick? Their fur may be thick, but again, they've got the noses and the feet and all that kind of stuff. So, yeah, they'll leave bees and things like that, too. But is there a good way to protect them from road traffic? The problem with road traffic is that, I mean, skunks will obviously try to run away first, but if something's coming at them that fast, they're going to start stomping and threatening to spray because that's what they would do with the predator coming out there. When you went to the Texas mammal meetings and we were determined, well, what's running around?

There's boys running around or girls because it's that time of year. Yes. That's what I'll let's do a little study. And so I stopped at every roadkill and was checking the gender. It's sound like Kennedy Jr. No. That's not what I was doing. I was doing science, though.

But it turned out that there were equal numbers of males and females. Really? And so I figured, well, both genders are. are out looking for mates at that time of year. Oh, again, small sample size, one road trip. But there are some data points. Yeah. You had some data points.

Yeah. I should probably publish that, so it makes it sound like I was doing science. Yeah. As opposed to just being creepy. Just flipping them over, checking them out. That reminds me. In Skunks, how do you know if one's a male or female? Do you have to get up close and personal? Or can you tell from a distance?

You might be able to tell from the back with an adult. You might see the testicles, depending on. if it's breeding seeds or not. But they're not going to have like a different stripe pattern. No, no, no. Yeah, the stripe won't tell you anything. It's just going to be the genitalia. So if you're up that close, then you've got other things to worry about.

Yeah, exactly. Any advice for someone who's like, I think I got a skunk in my yard. I'm going to call an exterminator? I would look into seeing if there's an alternative than an exterminator. I know we've got a couple places around here that will do relocation kind of stuff. And I know there was one rehabbered head. He would say if it's an animal emergency, they wouldn't charge. If it's a people emergency, they would charge.

So if you say, hey, I've got a skunk in my yard, I want it out. Okay, that's going to cost you money. But if there's an animal that's, you know, limping, it's got back legs hurt or something, they would come out and they would rescue the animal and not charge for that. So look into relocation. Yeah. Yeah. If you can get a rehabber.

It's not their fault that you're living on their land. The problem is I think a lot of the states where they say you can't rehab them, you have to kill them, that's when people take it upon themselves to take care of the animal. And that's usually not good for either the animal or the person taking care of them. Because if you don't know what to expect, I got people email me, how do I keep my skunk from digging up the carpet, put down tile? Because skunks dig, they're natural diggers. They're going to be doing that behavior because that's part of who they are. And so you've got to be aware of that. And so again, if you don't know what you're doing, you shouldn't have pets. Not skunks, not cats, not dogs. Yeah. Not children. If you don't know what you're doing, you shouldn't have children. And also if you're not prepared to deal with how a wild animal will react to an indoor environment.

And the younger ones are easier to, and you have to socialize them in order to get them used to other people and everything. But again, once you start getting other people coming inside, if it ever bites anybody, it's over. You probably won't be able to get a vet that will vaccinate them because it's probably going to be illegal and it's off-label. And so the vaccine will work, but it's off-label. It hasn't actually been tested on enough animals to say that it's... But a lot of times when they're doing the trap, vaccinate release, and they were doing that in Flagstaff, and they did it up in Ontario. And so they would catch an animal, vaccinate it, and then release it in order to try to stop the spread. And so, yeah, it was working.

But there's no way to do that through a pill or a food or a treat, right? It's got to be injection. Yep. Yeah. Iris asked, they said, I work at a farm. When skunks occasionally get in and kill chickens, they go for the head or the butt first, and they usually leave the rest. Did you ever see that in any of your work?

Or is that just a weird skunk that they've got? No, and I'm wondering because I know the striped skunks are less likely to do that. Spot of skunks, maybe. Yeah. And since the chicken's a lot bigger than a spotted skunk could be easier just to take it. come out. Yeah. And I've seen spotted skunks in rattlesnake hybranaculums, and they have taken out all the

snakes and just left them there. What? They needed the dead inside. Wait. So are they, they've displaced the snakes? Yeah. There was a guy doing research on rattlesnake venom. And he was looking, especially in wood rats and stuff like that.

Things are more likely going to be attacked by snakes. But we also had a story of a hog-nosed skunk that get bit on the face. And, of course, he didn't survive that. It could have been for a lot of reasons. It could have been the venom or it could have been the fact that his whole face swelled up and he couldn't breathe. So hard to know for sure what killed it. But that's not definitive. That's a possibility.

But again, rattlesnakes will eat skunks and skunks will eat rattlesnakes. Just depends on. Can you imagine getting in the middle of that fight? I had a young bull snake in a terrarium on my life. The first skunk I ever had, her name was Penelope. Call her Penny for short. One cent. One cent.

She saw that snake. He was on the ground one day. I was cleaning something up. She's, and it was gone. But wait, back to Iris's chickens. I'm sorry. Iris once again asked, in essence, guess what, chicken butt? But why first?

They go for the head or the butt first, and then they usually leave the rest. Does Jerry tend to encounter this? Or does Iris just have one little weird freak skunk around? This first chick is I know may not have been a skunk? I don't know. It's possible. They could a lot of times I'll get in there and just,

I don't know why they would be doing that because usually they like to eat. I don't know. I was going to say like that why leave the meat there. But, well, they are called pole cats, right? Aren't they? Mainly you deal with poultry, I think. Poultry. And the spotted skunks are called civic cats.

They're neither civets nor cats. Does that ever fry your legs, ever chap your hide? No? They recalled that long before I came along. Okay, so that's not your fault, were your problem. I understand that Chicago means skunk land. Is that true?

That's what I have read. It has, I think, is to do with the Native American language and what it meant. I think it had more to do with the... I'm not sure if it's a smell, the breeze, or there's a skunk plant there. According to the Encyclopedia of Chicago, it's all true. The Mijami peoples of the region used a similar sounding word to describe the wild leaks that grew along the watershed of what's now called the Chicago River.

And they used the same word to describe skunks. They were way ahead of the organic chemists who later discovered that, yes, leeks, onions, and garlic, they get their odors from sulfur-based compounds called thiols, also abundant in skunk spray. Now, when colonizers landed, they jotted down some notes about skunks. So when they first get to North America and the 1600s, they called them Children of the Devil. The Skunks? Yeah. Children of the Devil? Children of the devil.

But when Europeans explored the fertile and bountiful lands of North America, many animals and peoples were classified as things like, quote, remorseless devils and incarnate fiends. But historically, it seems that those terms were. reserved for the ones who dared resist or fight back. So keep that in mind. While we've got the devil on the horn, the name Mephistopheles, who's a devil and a trickster from some Germanic and Faustian stories, is said to come from the Greek words for he who shuns the light. But there is a Latin-based word, mephitic means the stinking vapors from swamps and decay. The words are close. Some argue it's a coincidence. Personally, I prefer the stinky devil etymology over just a light, shy guy. That seems a little weak. I understand that there's an ancient Italian goddess named Mephetis,

and she's the goddess of foul-smelling, noxious gastis, and subterranean papers. And if that's not my next Halloween costume, I don't know what it is, because she sounds like a badass. Well, there's also in South America, the Floreteen Codex in the, what's it, the 1500s, maybe? where they're translating the Aztec language and the Spanish language, and they were writing the same story side by side. Oh. And so you're kind of learning the Aztec tradition in the Spanish. Of course, I've read the English translation.

And they referred to skunks when they were spraying. They said it was Tescotti Pocca, who was a goddess of mischief and trouble and all that kind of stuff. It was breaking wind. Pardon me. Bar jokes are always funny. Oh, it's funny. And it's sulfuric compounds, right? That are common to all of those. And in weed and in skunk cabbage, I understand it's all similar. We did an episode on weed. We had to talk a little bit about skunk weed, of course. But can I ask you some questions from listeners? They had great ones. No. No. Okay. Well, it's been great. And I wish you the best. I told you you you weren't going to be impressed. I know. I swear they're good ones. I promise. But before we leap into them, let's. give away some money to a worthy cause. And this week, Jerry chose savemooncamp.org, which is an area in the San Bernardino Mountains that includes the foraging site of some nesting bald eagles,

namely a pair that the world has grown to know and love, Jackie and Shadow. And this 63-acre area was threatened by this massive luxury development. And via savemooncamp.org, enough donations were raised through Friends of the Big Bear Valley and the San Bernardino Mountain Land Trust, and all of Jesus' proud to have been one of the donors that helped them reach their goal. And the Save Moon Camp folks also just lost Sandy Steers, who was the executive director of Friends of Big Bear Valley this February. And they say she was dedicated to this preservation. And it's lovely to see that it's been accomplished. Now, you may be familiar with the bald eagle pair, Jackie and Shadow, and their attempts at hatching chicks over the years because they have a live nest cam. It's streamed by millions.

It runs 24-7, always on the Friends of Big Bear Lake YouTube channel. And sadly, in case you hadn't heard about a month ago, Jackie, who was the 14-year-old female eagle of the nesting pair, passed away. And the Save Moon Camp site says, in remembrance of our beloved Jackie, soar high and free with Sandy. And that did make me cry. So Jackie the Eagles' longtime mate is named Shadow, and he's newly solo in their big nest that they built. But wait, just a few days ago, okay, the LA Times reported that hours after

celebrity bald eagle Jackie's death was announced, a new beaked face showed up in the big bear nest. She shared with her mate, Shadow. Named K.D.1 or Katie, the four and a half year old female eagle has been spotted visiting the nest a few times. Is Katie perhaps a friend? Or is she using a grieving widow for his fame and his penthouse apartment with a lake? you. Apparently neither because they're birds and ecologists say we're not supposed to project on them. Also, eagle-related side note. This week I'm on the podcast Walking About with comedian and National Treasure Alan McLeod in which he takes walks with his friends and famous comedians. And I mentioned that L.A. has no eagles. And someone corrected me on that. But I want to set the record straight that

Big Bear is in San Bernardino County, not L.A. County. And we recorded that episode in March. And then two months later, one pair of bald eagles were spotted nesting in L.A. County proper. So whatever. But walking about, great show. Check it out. And thanks to sponsors of the show for making these donations happen. Okay. But you've been sprayed. How many times do you figure you've been sprayed by skunks, sir? About six or seven. That's it? Per animal.

Okay. Can they reload on you? Do they have more than one? Like how much is in the chamber? When it comes to a skunk feeding, I've never seen a full skunk. Okay. When it comes to a skunk spraying, I've never seen an empty one. Oh, someone's got to embroider that on a pillow for you. When it comes to a skunk spraying, I've never seen an empty one.

Evan Kennedy wanted to know how long it takes, how many sprays, and if they know how much is left, if they can feel how much is left in the glands or if they do skunk math. I imagine you've got to feel when your butt glands are getting empty, right? I would imagine because the ones that get dissented are still doing the spray behavior. Oh, right. So they may not recognize it. And again, the thing is, if they're having to spray so much that their glands are empty, they're probably getting ready for a fight anyway.

Because whatever they're spraying at is not backing off. And so that's why it's constant boom, boom, boom. Eventually they're going to be fighting before they run out. And a little goes a long way. Yeah. Right. Yeah, I mean, again, if you get in your eyes, it's going to burn. It was like, they just sprayed me in the eye.

So you've been sprayed probably upward of 100 times? I was sprayed nine times in 11 seconds by a hooded skull. We were trying to take pictures of it. It just boom, boom, boom, boom. No. That is brutal, man. And, you know, I was not doing something stupid. No.

No, well, actually I was. What were you doing? Were you talking? We were just trying to get pictures. of him so I was in the enclosure with him and he was not happy. I wouldn't call that stupid. I'd call that. I'm curious. We filmed a skunk spraying at 1,000 frames per second. And they had a, they started off with a squirt bottle and they had the camera sit at 500 frames

per second and they were squirted and film it. And I said, that's not fast enough. My God. And so we granted up to a thousand. And so I had one of my research animals. We had a mom and seven babies. And while my babies, I mean, they were kind of juvenile. And so we took one of those first time and we let them spray three times. I was rubbing my hand along the backside of them to see if they could spray. But I couldn't get my hand out of the way fast enough. So they'd spray it.

So I finally had to just kind of leaned in and blew kisses on them. And they would. No. And they filmed that a thousand frames per second. And if they've got a shot of that. Actually, I may have that on my phone too. Oh, no. stuck my tongue out in that shot they would have gotten it on film.

Oh, dear. How's your sense of smell? Real question. Because my friend Micah, no sense of smell. I don't smell good. Okay. Well, no, I don't have a good sense of smell. Yeah.

You smell fuck. One of those is true. How's your wife's sense of smell? We had one animal that was in a little din area, and we were getting ready to release her. We were checking on her. And as we were walking up to her, I could see what she was doing. Gwen was right behind me with her.

She was bringing something with her. And I saw, I just ducked. And it's right over me. No. And hit her and I turned around and looked at her. She goes, I don't know why I think I'm immune. Oh, no. So then you must have had to desunk yourself so many times.

Is it just throwing your clothes in the wash? I mean, the tomato juice does not work, right? I just take a shower. You just take a shower. Does that work? No. Okay. So my wife likes to use diluted bleach. Okay.

And I can tell what kind of moochie's in by how dilute the bleach is. No. Doesn't work enough on it. Well, does, if you get skunked, because it's oily, right? Yep. So it's oily, so it must not react great to water, right? And so is it a matter of soaking up the oil? Like when people must ask you this, like my dog got skunked or I ducked and my wife got skunked, for example.

What's the first aid? You shouldn't call an ambulance, right? Yeah, probably not. I don't know. Maybe if you get hit in the eyes, I don't know. The first thing is calm, calm down. Yeah. Right?

And it was, did you have goggles in that one? Um, no. I don't think I did on that one. Most of the time I wear the goggles around my neck anyway. Oh, my God. Does it hurt your eyes? Is it just foul smelling? Or does it have, like?

It'll burn, yeah. It'll burn? Oh, dear. So Dr. Dragoo pulls up a visual aid. It's an extremely close-up, high-definition photo of a skunk anus. Two finger-like maroon projections emerge from its pink sphincter and a jet stream of sparkling golden, almost neon yellow, ass juice fills the frame. To fire, the skunk extrudes a pair of nozzles from its rear.

And you can see those stick out past the anal sphincter when they're getting ready to spray. They can use those to target, and they'll direct their spray in whatever direction they want to go. Later, back in L.A., I reviewed that footage via the PBS R. archives. And I happen to be working a crowded section of a dead silent library. And my laptop monitor absolutely wall-to-wall animal anus. And I covered the screen with my fingers, and I tried to just watch it through the slivers. You see the little pink nipples there? Yep, I do. I do. It looks like we're looking at its nose, but that's definitely its butt hole, right? That's the southern end of a northbound skunk. And do those, are those little nipples coming out of the

butt, are those the nozzles? Yep. Those are the end of the scent gland, and they're just inside the anal sphincter. And then what's coming out of it looks like just threads of gold. It looks like... Anil sac amber. That's anal sac amber. Just like golden threads. That's what that looks like.

And so, from what I understand, they can make it come out fast or not fast. That's true? So when I'm chasing them and they're running away and they can't see me, they just kind let go and it's kind of a cloud. He goes, okay. And then it kind of drains down and predator has to run through that. And that's usually enough to stop the predator. As I keep getting closer and closer and the animal may go under a brush or somewhere

and he will turn and look at me with both ends. I can see his head and his butt. And that comes out as a stream. And it's usually directed right at my eyes. A note of caution for anybody who tries this at home. Don't let your jaw drop an utter amazement when you're holding a skunk by the tail at arm's length in front of you. You can also, you know, turn them

a different way so they... You can point the nozzle. Yeah, you don't have to leave it pointed at your face. At your open mouth, for example. Unless you want to. Unless you want to. Some people want the full experience. Yeah.

But, yeah. Oh, yeah, what does it? Jarrett just whispered to me. Ask what it tastes like. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, ask what does it taste? Jerry, what does it taste like? Well, that's a good question.

Usually, I mean, if I get it up the nose, it's more of a burning sensation, and the eyes is a burning sensation. But I don't really think it's unpleasant. But that's just me. It's just me. Again, I don't. We need a panel of people who have been sprayed by skunks to the answer. Not it.

Not it. Not it. It's got those garlic and burnt rubber and sulfur. And a lot of times, I mean, if something hits the side of your house, you'll get that initial strong skunk smell. And then once it kind of dries off, everything's fine. But then that little sticky stuff, if it gets wet again, it turns those thial acetates into thyls again. And then it releases the odor a second time. So it has a longer staying life.

So when you're going to clean it off your walls or whatever, you need to make sure you get all the little remaining bits. Because once that gets wet again, it's the thitherynolds. thylylacetates. And the spotted skunks don't have the thial acetates. So when they spray you, it's going to be pungent, but it dissipates. Oh. Whereas with the striped skunks and the hog-nose cunks, they have the thial acetates. And so if they get you and you get it wiped off, you start sweating or something,

you're going to start picking up that odor again, which is why sometimes you can't get it out of your dog all the time. It's because if the dog gets a little wet, smells again. Yep. So, oh, so you didn't get it off the first time. Yep. Oh, got it. And of course, the sooner you get at it, the more likely you are to do a better job removing it. But it doesn't mean that the dog will learn.

No, no, yes. So let's address a very common question on the multiple minds of patrons via patreon.com slashologies. So this was asked by Nick Worth, Kendrick Beechie, Caroline Fox, Mugda, Yeola, Charlton, Kylie Katie Katte, Greg Stafford, Plum, Isabel Fitzpatrick, Caitlin Alice, Christine Rohanna Elta Sparks, Ranger France, Fatty Bow, Badi, Maddy, Shelby Paxton, Rachel May's dog, Phineas, Ninja Squirrel, Ani, and first-time asker, Claire Weidener, who wanted to know what's the official ologist-approved remedy for skunk stank? And, okay, Rich, Jay, wants to know. If that tomato juice thing really, really works, or if it's just, you know, boy scout bullshit. Brits Monroe also wants to know.

What is the best way to get the skunk smell off your dog? Thank you. So yes, tomato juice will just make your dog smell like a meatball. And in order to break down those sulfurous thiols, you need chemistry, not prego. Also, do not grab the hose as a first line of remediation. Water at the get-go is just going to make it worse. So what you want to do is get yourself some hydrogen peroxide, baking soda, and dish soap or even better pet shampoo.

So use a quart of hydrogen peroxide, 32 ounces, about a liter of 3% hydrogen peroxide, one third of a cup of baking soda, and a tablespoon of liquid dish soap or pet shampoo. So you need to mix this up as soon as you can. You've got to get rid of it the faster the better, and you've got to make a fresh batch of this stuff each time you need it because it doesn't keep well. So you take this mixture. You scrub it thoroughly into your pet's fur or your face, whatever the problem is. And you should avoid the eyes and the mouths.

And then you rinse yourself or the pet and you repeat the process if you need to. And experts note that this remedy may lighten your pet's fur, but it'll do wonders for reducing the stink. Also, everyone loves a makeover. So there you go. Once again, a quart or about a liter of 3% hydrogen peroxide, a third of a cup of baking soda, and a tablespoon or two of oil-cutting dish soap or pet shampoo. That's going to oxidize those stinky chemicals, and your animal will no longer smell unless you miss a spot and it gets wet again.

Or it gets repeatedly sprayed in the face for money like Jerry. And what happens when you've been sprayed nine times in the face by a skunk? Was there a first time it happened where you said, well, that'll be the last time? Or where you're like, it's fine. And a little bit of a cliffhanger. We're going to be back next week to hear that answer and more of your Patreon questions. They're so good. Also on the agenda, Pepe Lepewes' Discussion, Outrunning Skunks, if they can smell themselves.

What do you do if you see one in the wild? Rehabing and keeping skunks? How the world learned of Jerry Dragoo so much. So come back next week because honestly the facts get weirder. And the stories are jawrappers. Also, follow Jerry. I forced him to have a Blue Sky account. Right now, he has 89 followers.

So let's surprise him with an absolute deluge. He's at J-W-Dragoo on Blue Sky. J-W-Dragoo, say hi. It's also linked in the show notes. We are at Ologies on Blue Sky and Instagram. I'm at Allie Ward on both. Smologies are shorter kid-friendly episodes in their very own feed. Just look for Smologis, S-M-O-L-G-I-E-S, wherever you get podcast.

that we meet at last by J.B.Stink.com is linked in the show notes, along with some other collabs I've made with your podmother, Jarrett Sleeper. Again, J.B.Stink.com, that we meet at last skunk shirt will be linked in the show notes. Aaron Talbert, adminzeology's podcast, Facebook group, Aveline Malick makes our professional transcripts. Calliard Dwyer does the website. Scheduling producer Noel Dilworth is our very own high-speed camera. Aiming our weekly nozzles is managing director Susan Hale. And the dual. stripes down by furry back are editor Jake Chafee and lead editor Mercedes Maitland of Maitland audio. Nick Thorburn stomped out the theme music. And if you stick around to the very end,

you know, I may tell you a secret. And this week, it is that I am recording this on Tuesday, the very day that it goes up. That's kind of how we roll around here. And as soon as I stop recording, I think I'm taking Jarrett to the ER for possible appendicitis. So I will keep you updated since this is a two-parter next week if he needed to get an organ removed or if you just had a fart we don't know so we're going to go check it out we should do an episode on appendices if we need to so thank you for being here come back for part two next week it's so good okay bye bye