Ologies with Alie Ward - Mixology (COCKTAILS) with Matthew Biancaniello

Episode Date: December 18, 2018

Foraging, infusing, shaking, stirring: this one's got it all. How do you make weird, fancy drinks at home? How much booze should you buy for a party? What drinks do bartenders hate to make? How can you avoid a hangover? What are the best mocktails? Famed bar chef and mixologist Matthew Biancaniello tours Alie through Malibu fire aftermath and talks about his boggling backstory, why he doesn't go out much, the secret formula to making good drinks and why you shouldn't be afraid to be weird. Matthew's website and Instagram @EatYourDrinkMore links at www.alieward.comBecome a patron of Ologies for as little as a buck a month: www.Patreon.com/ologiesOlogiesMerch.com has hats, shirts, pins, totes!Follow @Ologies on Twitter or InstagramFollow @AlieWard on Twitter or InstagramSound editing by Steven Ray Morris and Jarrett SleeperTheme song by Nick ThorburnSupport the show: http://Patreon.com/ologies

Oh, hey, oligites. It's your dry cleaner who never judges your pit stains. Allie Ward, back for another episode of oligies. So winter celebrations are here. Marryment is to be had. Gatherings are gathering and you've got some weekdays off and you're expected to spend them in your pajamas. So I thought, why not an episode on liquid curiosities? Speaking of celebrations, really quick up top, happy birthday to Hannah Lipo. Dear friend, admin of the oligies Facebook group, we all love you very much. Deal with it. Also, more business before we get to the episode. Thank you to all the patrons on patreon.com slash oligies. Thanks to anyone who gets merch at oligiesmerch.com. And thank you

for keeping oligies solid in the old science charts by tweeting and gramming and telling your relatives and subscribing and rating and reviewing, which you know I creepily peruse because your reviews are hilarious and they perk me up. And then I read you a fresh one so you know I'm not just whistling, very creepy Dixie. So this week, Abakai says, straight up my therapist told me about this podcast when I was complaining about my pervasive news addiction. Thanks for saving me from reading way too many political articles. Straight up advice from the therapist. Okay, mixology, let's get into it. Okay, first let's tackle this etymology because mixology is not a word used by mixologists a lot. Although it seems like it was a term that was just invented

like in the last decade with the resurgence of these prohibition era classics and cocktails and the resurgence of the semi ironic mustaches. It is actually a throwback to an earlier time. So before we had delights like indoor plumbing and vaccines, cocktail books and newspapers from the 1860s used phrases like mixologists of fluid excitements to describe bartenders. And then in the 1980s in an era when screwdrivers and seagrams and diapepsy were all the rage, a New York bartender named Dale de Groff started bringing back old timey recipes and he started calling himself a mixologist just to impress the press and it worked. But maybe in the last like handful of years, some suspended craft cocktails took themselves a little too seriously and maybe

gave the term mixology a bad name. We will discuss. Anyway, this guest is one of the most highly respected cocktail makers in the country and his backstory is as riveting and inspiring as his advice. I met him about seven years ago. I was working with the cooking channel making and reviewing cocktail recipes and I tried a battery of his drinks at the library bar, which is in the very swank, very haunted Vibey Roosevelt hotel in Hollywood. I'd never had a drink like his ever. Like stinging nettle infused gin and mushroom infused artichoke liqueur, pine cone infused into elderflower cocktails, the quail eggs is a garnish. His drinks are like mad libs that somehow make sense in your mouth. So after years of just building this reputation at the library bar and

consulting a bunch of restaurants, this past October, he finally opened his much anticipated own bar monthly serving up 12 course dining and drinking pairings at the Calamigos Beach Club. It's right on Pacific Coast Highway. An actual stone's throw literally from the ocean and his view from the bar is just this glittering Pacific and then to his back is solstice canyons and the mountains of Malibu. It's gorgeous. So I visited him just this past week and a few days ago and I walked the grounds and he recounted that about a month after opening his dream bar, he had a night to remember. And it's amazing because the Thursday night, I was going into my fifth week of service and the winds were ripping and I was just loving it. You'll see my bar, the windows were open and the

wind, it was just beautiful. But you had that sense of that fire out there. So in early November, weeks after opening only, the Woolsey fire swept through the canyon and it destroyed 1600 structures. It took three lives. It also consumed a portion of the Calamigos Beach Club. So on Saturday, we stepped over hunks of charred furniture and crunched over broken glass to the rear of the property to see that flames scorched the back of the restaurant. Just shattering glass, melting door knobs. But thank you to firefighters. His little bar was spared, just made it by a literal inch. And even like the rafters are charred a little bit. Oh yeah, no question about it. Yeah. This was seconds from going up. No question about it.

The electric wires serving the property all melted and it's going to take months to clean out the burned down structures on the property. But it doesn't really keep him away. So wait, now how much time are you spending here? Still? Yeah. I can't help it. I come three or four days a week. I just love to sit in my bar. It's like a monastery. It's the whole thing of like when you build something, you can't just walk away, even if it's in disarray. So he opened up the bar for me and it's still in perfect condition. We took seats at a high top table looking out at the ocean and the PCH, which was buzzing with Saturday motorcyclists and SUVs carrying surfboards. So thisologist has been making drinks for over a decade, hosted the A&E cocktail travel show

called Good Spirits and wrote the book Eat Your Drink. And we talked about his history and how he approaches the American cocktail, his own relationship to booze, his relationship to the word mixology, how to make a good drink at home, how to do your own thing, even if it seems weird to others at first. So saddle up for the wit, the wisdom, and the whimsy of bartender, cocktail chef, and mixologist Matthew Biancanello. The way I pronounce my last name, it's funny. It's almost like if I say it the real Italian way, Biancanello, it's almost like someone who says croissant, you know what I mean? So I always feel a little bit funny, but the correct pronunciation is Biancanello. But when I try to just, it's just

Biancanello. Okay, you got to use your hands a little. Exactly. I was brought up more Greek than I was Italian. Oh, you were? Even though I'm 50, 50, but I was brought up more on my Greek side. Oh, I didn't know that. And now where were you born? I was born in Lawrence, Massachusetts, but grew up mostly in Boston. Okay. Yeah, Belmont and Cambridge area. So your accent was a little Boston? It's that and New York for nine years too, because my father's from Brooklyn. So I think I have a mix of that because I lived there for nine years. But it's weird, people will see like, are you, are you from Portugal? I'm like, where do you get that? And now how long have you been in LA? 18 years. 18 years. Side note, 18 years in LA is

like the scientific equivalent to four decades in any other city, trust me. So Matthew moved out here thinking there'd just be gobs of work in advertising sales, but he also pursued a bunch of passion projects like writing and directing a short film called the bread basket, which was based on some of his own experiences. It was about a man struggling with body dysmorphia. But to make art in LA, you also have to pay the bills. So what did you do? Did he weigh tables? No, nope. Nope. I was kind of just trying to figure it out. So I didn't really get into what I'm doing until 10 years ago. So for eight years, I was doing all kinds of crazy shit. My brother was the director of Michael Jackson Zoo. So I would do animal training with him. I'd pick up animals from,

you know, like venomous snakes from the airport and it wouldn't have like a black mamba next to me for two hours in a box. I was like, okay, I got into wanting to make underwater films at the time. And then I did this crazy eating stunts. I heard that you have eaten like cow eyeballs. I did all these things. I had made a film called the bread basket, which is actually a colloquial term in New York for your stomach. So I made this film. It was all about a guy who was kind of obsessed with his stomach. And I needed the money to finish. What happened was my brother had had the Guinness Book of World Record for being covered by the most bees at one point. Yeah, like 450,000. Now someone has a million. I don't know how they got up to that, because it's insane how they do it.

It's like, it's all about money for these things. So he was going to be, he was going to do something where he was going to something with leeches. And I was like, he's getting $10,000 to like be covered by this is ridiculous. So I remember I went up to the producer and I said, you know, I'll eat anything. And he goes, oh, that's nice. That's nice. So I waited for my brother to kind of do his study and wanted to bring us pray. So I went over to the thing and I grabbed a handful of leeches. I put him behind my back and I went up to the producer. I said, no, I'm serious, I'll eat anything. And I took them live through my mouth and swallow them. He jumped back like 10 feet. And he goes, you'll be hearing from us. Within three weeks, I was on Hollywood Boulevard

at three in the morning in front of the Ripley's Believer Knot Museum eating like all this disgusting stuff. And I did it so well that I got picked up and I went to on tonight's show with Jay Leno. I was like with David, like all this stuff. And I made like $30,000 in six months. And back then that was like 2000, 2001. And it's like, okay, I'm going to finish my film. I don't have to really about working. So that all came out until I was on the old Steve Harvey show. You got the wrong damn daytime show. I'm just trying to work a joke in here. And I had to eat raw chicken feet. Oh, God, I got so sick that I've been sensitized for her, which is a good thing. Don't get me wrong. But I had such a high white blood cell count that I could I was just sick and they never aired the

episode because they heard about that. They were probably worried about getting sued or something like that. Oh my God, were you in the hospital? No, I wouldn't go because I don't know what it was. I was living in Burbank at the time and I was just like ill. And I never told my father like what I was doing. But he said, well, why did you eat raw chicken feet? Well, I just wanted to see how it tasted, you know. So because I was like, I was the kid growing up where like someone would be like, I dare to eat that potato chip off the ground with the worm on it. I'm like, okay. So it was all it was easy for me. It's quick PSA from your old dad word Von podcast here. Just please don't eat raw worms, never eat a raw slug or snail. Come on, kiddos, Google rat,

lung worm, it can literally kill you. So if you've got to eat a slug, just I don't know, microwave it first. And if anyone is your real friend, then they will like you even if you don't eat a raw slug to impress them. The more you know. And so you were in LA just doing everything. I was doing so many different things. I actually worked for this art guy who sold erotic art. I was like, shit, what the hell am I going to do? So I just did so many random things. And that's all. Yeah. And now you started working at the library bar at the Roosevelt exactly 10 years ago, because that's where I first yeah, drinks. Oh, yeah. And I remember being like, this is a wizard. This person is a wizard. These aren't normal cocktails.

When you started at the library bar, did you ever bartend before? I never really bartended. I think I did a few catering stuff. We were just doing like Jack and Cokes and vodka. So because I do remember my first night, I was with this woman, Jamie, who was working there. And I had to duck down and literally say to her, what's that? Cosmopolitan? Because I didn't know. And I saw, I remember the only reason why I got the job is I knew the manager through yoga. She said, well, listen, I have this opening at the library, but it's very slow and might be good for you to start. I'm like, okay, I'll do it. And it was crazy because that's what happened. And I think pretty quickly I was like, yeah, these drinks don't seem

like they're worth $15 or $16. So let me just start replacing them with fresh stuff. And that was kind of the beginning of it. So I remember one day she tried one of my drinks. She was, what the hell is in this? This is amazing. Well, I just put fresh pomegranate juice. She was, oh, you just buying this out of your own pocket. I go, yeah, she was, well, I'll start reimbursing you. But she was giving me $100 a week and I was spending $400 a week. So I spent about $8,000 out of my own pocket that first year. I knew nothing about alcohol. So I would slowly get these things and educate myself. But it was really the farmer's market, which was the biggest education. Because now I was seeing stuff. I grew up on these coasts. I was seeing stuff I've never seen before. And it

was like kind of instantaneous. And I think because I didn't have any training, I didn't think about right or wrong. I just did it. And I think once I had to learn something, I read about the daiquiri and I said to myself, oh, wait a second. Okay, this is a daiquiri. It's rum, lime and sugar. If I take out the rum in particular, it's a margarita. If I take out the rum and put gin, it's a gimlet. If I put it in mint, it's a mojito. So a huge light bulb went up. And all I did was I really just stuck with the daiquiri for the first two or three years. So I think everybody thought, oh my God, look what he's doing. But all I was, what I was really doing was a daiquiri in every drink. But I was, where my passion came from, which was finding

these ingredients and mixing these unusual flavors. From there, it's just a formula and you can tweak the flavors and the infusions and the base spirit. Just get weird. Just get a little wacky. The world is your smoky mezcal, wheatgrass elderflower foam, sour pickled button mushrooms, mustard blossom, and spicy arugula flowers, oyster shooter cocktail in Matthew's case. And that is a real recipe. So it just became kind of a free-for-all for me. And it just really escalated quickly. I mean, I can't believe how quickly I got attention in the short period of time for doing that, you know? Because if I was to do that now, it would never be the same. I didn't think about a void in the market. I just thought about, this is all I know. Well, I guess it was kind of a cocktail revolution.

I feel like sex in the city awakened people to the cosmos. Yes, I'd like a cheeseburger, please, large fries and a cosmopolitan. And then from there, there were apple martinis with like apple puck in it. And then something happened like 2006 or something. Well, it also started at Milk and Honey in New York. And that was around, I think around, I think it was, I can't remember, it was 2005 or something. But that's what started there. And they started recreating classic cocktails in the real way, which how they did in Prohibition, with the ice, the fresh juice. But for me, it was like, none of that stuff really appealed to me. So it was, I was kind of on my own island and it was like, but I love all these fresh things.

That was more appealing to me. And how do you feel about the term mixology? Because it's so loaded, which is like, it's the title of this episode, like tongue in cheek, because it's like, okay, but it's such a hated term. You know, I don't have the same hatred. I just kind of have more of a dismissal thing about it. Like I don't really, I don't really call myself that. I don't introduce, if someone says, and mixologists that just they do all the time, I don't need to correct them. It's like, the quicker I just let it dissolve, the better. Yeah. You know what I mean? So that's what I do. It's more about that. I don't really give any attention to it either way.

So I don't, I always consider myself more of a chef. I always thought I consider, I thought more of a chef and my, those were those, those were the people that I was identifying with, those are the people I was talking to, those are the people I was seeing at the farmer's market. I wasn't really talking to bartenders and I don't really go out. One reason is I don't really drink that much. And the other reason is I never want it to be influenced. I wanted it to come from me naturally. And I think I still have a little bit of that. I still feel like there's so much more inside of me. I don't want to be influenced out there. And if someone say, oh my God, he got that from, it's like, I want to deal with what's inside of me first. So those are

the two components. But the chefs was always the most exciting thing because I loved when chefs used to come to me, they're like, what are you going to do with that? I was like, I love that. You know what I mean? Like, what are you going to do with that? You know, stuff like that. What did you do with an email? I think I first was a drink that I did. I used the actual egg for the vessel. But what was great at the library bar is, this was always January through March, when I think the restaurant closed at midnight, people were hungry, I would take the emu egg back and have them scrambled up. And I would just on the house, one egg would feed six people. So I would just feed the whole bar with this emu egg. And I realized how creamy it was,

how rich it was. So that escalated to me making eggnogs with it. So and the shell is so beautiful. I know it's like a dragon egg. And so, you know, you mentioned that you don't drink. And I know that about you. But that always kind of surprised and honestly kind of impressed me because I know that there are a lot of people who are cocktail chefs who are maybe in it because of a certain lifestyle. But that never seemed to be you. No. You know what it is, is my mom, and she hates that I keep saying like, how many times are you going to keep talking about your mom? But I say it because it was a very profound thing. You know, so my mom was such a hardcore alcoholic that it really just turned me off. I remember even just going on a date with a woman, if I

smelled alcohol in her breath, it was like a turn off, you know? And I think that was the beginning of that. And I just, I don't know, I just never felt great on it. But I do enjoy it. You know, I do enjoy showing things, probably wine a little bit more. But I love the creation of it. And I think what happened was too, is a year and a half into doing what I was doing. I still remember this woman because I see her on Facebook. It was like, you know, she was taking pictures of my drinks and she was like savoring and she was going crazy. It was a year and a half into it. And I looked up and a huge light bulb went off inside of me where I was like, oh my god, you are unconsciously rescripting your relationship to alcohol. You're making it beautiful. You're

making it something that you savored. So all of those memories of alcoholism and what I thought alcohol represent was gone forever. So I never looked at alcohol. I didn't care if I had it or not. That's the thing. That's what's great about alcohol is I can be one of those guys. I can have a drink and then not worry about. But see, I was always that way. I'm going to tell you a crazy story. I didn't try drugs until I was 23 years old. And the first drug I did was heroin in New York. I know that's why everyone's like, what the fuck are you talking about? And I said, no, you don't understand. I tried heroin. I loved it. I did it for six weeks straight. Everyone I did it with went down the toilet and then I got out of it. And what are you talking about? I just walked away

one day and I was fine. I used to run on it like crazy. You know what I mean? I was in New York, you know? It's like when you could buy it for $5 in Alphabet City. So it was one of those things where it's like I had that kind of personality where like I love to dive into something, but I could dive out. Oh my god. So I was lucky. So lucky. Very lucky. Also zero to 60. Oh, that's a way. Yeah. Slow your roll. Yeah. And I think I had pot a few times like this is stupid and then I don't care about drugs, you know? Oh my god. Yeah. And you and you know, because you've definitely had some ups and downs in your life that are like you're such a survival story. Yeah. Big time. Yeah. Lots of things. So Matthew went from swallowing leeches and even living in

his car for a quick spell to becoming the most respected cocktail maker in the city and an author and a TV host and then in command of his own Tony Malibu spot, all just by finding something that he was curious and really passionate about and then pouring himself into it. And I swear that was not an intentional pun. Okay. Now listen up because this may be the most useful mixology lesson you can ever learn. You can never make a bland or syrupy gross drink again if you know this. How did you dive in to try to understand the craft of cocktails? I mean, it sounds like you started looking into daiquiris and realizing, okay, there's a formula. There's like a math here. Yeah. Exactly. And it's plug in and play, right? Yeah. What are the basic ratios of that? Because

I know that you don't really go by ratios. Oh, yeah. So very simple. So it was always two ounces of spirit and then three quarter lime, three quarter gavi. If you were just doing it on its own, you would up the lime to one. So an easy way to remember this is the golden ratio, roughly two to one to one, two parts spirit, one part sweet, like a liqueur or some kind of simple syrup and one part tart, like lemon, lime or grapefruit, two to one to one, you can make almost any cocktail a good one at home for almost free. And then when you go to fancy speakeasies like LA's varnish or New York's death and company, you'll be able to nod at the mixologist in a way that says, I know your tricks. You're a math nerd. Remember one time this guy got me like the specs

for the varnish, you know what I mean? Like all of their classes. And I looked at it and it was like, okay, I can see what they're doing. I can see some patterns or I can see what they do when they do a straight thing. So it was like, that just kind of strengthened it. In terms of technique, I still feel like I don't really have technique. Yeah, I think it's, yeah, I still think I lack that if I'm being honest. And I think like, like I said, I think my, it's not that I don't have some technique, but I think what's interesting about where I'm at right now is there's still so much to learn. And I remember just like, you would just, and I think it was also Dale de Graff's book. I think it was called the essential cocktail. So I ended up getting that book and I got to read

why he did certain things and the stirring and the shaking and all that. So I adapted that stuff, but I remember like no one taught me. So there I am like, trying to stir and I couldn't do it with the spoon. So I had to bend it into a C shape. I took this, the spoon, the metal spoon and bent it so much that it was easy for me to stir. So it also got to the point when I started doing some consulting and I tell people like, you know what, you don't need to worry about that right now. Let's just get a metal chopstick and it's the same thing. Just do that. Just get used to stirring it. So I got into, I got sympathetic and interested in teaching people that knew nothing was more interesting to me than someone who had technique already. But I still feel like I don't really

have a strong technique. That's funny that you say that because I think you're, you're widely regarded as probably one of the best cocktail chefs in the country. Easy, hands down. Your name is just like, you're just at the top of the pyramid for sure. How do you feel about cocktail culture and the, the buttoned vest, sneery faced suspender clad? Well, I, I personally feel, listen, I think I understood where it started from and all that. And I just, I don't know, I just, I think what, I don't, I'm not even referring to the vest because I think it's nice that, you know, people will look nice. I understand all that. But I really do think that as time went by, I think a lot of the attitudes that people had in the kind of feeling, what's the superior? It kind of killed

the culture a lot. And I really feel like, you know, when drinks started escalating and people like, oh, you know, they're more like that about it. You know what I mean? And I feel like some of that really kind of destroyed some of the culture of cocktails and how they should be regarded, I guess, you know, people would tell me stories like they go into a bar and they'd ask for this drink and, you know, they'd make the drink and they didn't really like it. And the bartender would be like, that drink is perfect. You know? And the thing is, is how that's the opposite of how I operate because I operate on, I am going to make this drink for you until you tell me it's great. If you don't like it, like, I would horrify people where I'd make a drink and they'd be like, I could

see it in their face. I would grab it out of their hand and dump it. They didn't understand that. They didn't understand how I would take a drink. They're like, that's booze. I'm like, I don't think of it, that's booze. And I would dump it. So, yeah, it's, you know, there's a lot of layers in that. And for me, the biggest challenge for me was to just stay true to who I was, even though some of the times it was like, fuck, you know, difficult, you know? And I never wavered from what I did. That was always important to me is I never wavered from what I was doing because I still don't, I still never have been in a bar. And the thing about this bar is really only truly the second bar I've ever worked in. If you really think in 10 years,

I worked at the library bar for four and a half years and I worked here in service for four weeks. So Matthew clearly took his own path to get good at what he does. And also, just because this is a fun place to do it, here's a quick whiskey breakdown for anyone who gets confused but doesn't want to admit it, which was me for a long time. So a whiskey is distilled from grain. It's aged in barrels, although corn whiskey, aka moonshine, does not have to be aged. Scotch whiskey made in Scotland. Bourbon is a type of predominantly corn whiskey, aged in new charred white oak barrels. And rye is a type of aged whiskey made with predominantly rye grains. So if someone's like, what'll it be? And you're like, well, I'm a grown up. So I'd like one bourbon

Scotch. Just know bourbon Scotch isn't a thing. Also, just be yourself. Order what you want. We're all just doing our best. Okay. Was there ever a moment where you had to write out, okay, this is a whiskey. This is not a whiskey. This is a type of whiskey bourbon is a type of whiskey, but only in this. I had to do that for trainings. Yeah. And I had to educate myself on alcohol, my palate, because most of the stuff I try and be like, this is disgusting. Really? Oh my god, I'd be like, ah, so I got to learn to love Scotch. I got to learn Mascow, all these things that I know people really, really love. They weren't in my wheelhouse, you know, at all. And they weren't things that it's like alcohol just seemed gross to me a lot of times. Really? Yeah. A lot of

palates I know for a fact can be developed. If I could develop a palette for alcohol, I know people can develop palates for anything. Because that was so out of my realm of like something I would enjoy. Right. Yeah. Because I remember also like, my father had gotten remarried. And I think I had like nine jack-in-cokes at his wedding, you know what I mean? And I was just throwing up like crazy. I mean, I was still, I was, I was, I, my shit was like 25 or something. It wasn't that young, but I was like, create, you know, like that's the kind of shit I remember. Like you used it just to get drunk. And here I was doing something which was more about the experience, the palate. So Matthew changed his view of alcohol

from something that just gets you sloppy hammered to essentially like a liquid art supply that one can drink and eat. He started getting more and more into the intersection of food and alcohol, doing like alcoholic ice creams and savory cocktails, like chamomile infused rum with cherry tomatoes and apple mint and lemon balm. He made an icy cold goat milk and tequila with black cardamom. He even made an alcoholic smoked garlic soup. So just doing his own thing keeps him excited about his work. The other thing is not going out and not being around that community. It allowed me to keep my passion strong. I didn't want my passion to dissipate. And I isolated myself because for that reason. So that, and that's the thing is I've just as much, if not more than when I started.

Oh, that's good. And that hasn't died. And that, that is because I preserved it. And what would you do if you're at the library bar, you've got like, a, just a palette of fresh herbs and you've got handpicked mushrooms you've foraged. And then someone comes up and they're like, can I get a red ball and vodka? In the beginning, it bothered me. Yeah. In the beginning, you know, it really did. You know, it really does. And so what I ended up doing was I ended up doing a reverse psychology. The first thing is I got rid of red bulls so they didn't have that option. So that's, that's, I just, I don't have it. And it would be nice about it. You know what I mean? So I was like, I don't have like, what do you mean you don't have red

bull? You know, so they would ask for a bloody Mary, a dirty martini or a long nice tea. And I thought, oh, I can make my version of that. And because that's something they have a point of reference to. If I can make my version of that, make it great, they will trust me with anything I do. And that's what happened. So a kid would come in or whatever and be like, yeah, can I have a dirty martini? I'd make my dirty Sicilian and they'd be like, what the fuck is this? This is amazing. Quick question. What's in a dirty Sicilian? You ask? I had to know it's Matthew's dirty martini. It involves garlic, fresh olive juice, oregano, red pepper flakes and some fresh oregano buds. It's like sipping a pizza. And now I got them to try anything. They trusted me. What about

a Long Island iced tea? That was actually literally on my list. Has anyone ever ordered a Long Island for you? No question about it. And that's why I started making incredible. And I even did it when I, when I consulted for Roy Choi, when he opened the line. But what I did is I did like organic kashasa, aquavit, moscow, all these things. And I did it with fresh blood orange juice instead of Coke. Oh my God. And people were like, I remember there's this one guy, I just reminded me of this one guy who would come in just specifically goes, do you have that season? He would say, do you have that seasonal? I'm like, you just made my year calling this a seasonal Long Island iced tea. Did you, do you think your yoga training helped you be patient with

patrons? No question about it. No question about it. You know what? Let's hop in a time machine. Let's grab a bag of context about ye olde history of cocktails. So the first cocktail really went way, way back. And you have to think about it too is people don't realize this is cocktails is really our true culinary contribution to the world. The cocktail was born here. Really? Absolutely. And it really came into the 18, I think it was around 1860 or so that where it came out of New Orleans and the Sazerak really being one of the first cocktails. And really that is what, you know, and people don't realize that the reason why it spread is when prohibition came and these bartenders couldn't work here. They went to Europe and other places and they spread their

knowledge and that's how the cocktail started to spread. A Sazerak by the by is a stirred drink made with absinthe just a little bit, a sugar cube, rye, whiskey or cognac and a few dashes of these pink, anise, floral, pachodes, bitters, which are local to New Orleans. They're so good. Whenever I've had a Sazerak, I always feel like I should just bob my hair and do the Charleston and pine for a lover that went off to war. The thing that's significant about the Sazerak, which is really what it comes down to is during that time as well is that was originally made with cognac. Okay. And I think at that time, there was a time, I can't remember the period, but it was either late 1800s or early 1900s. There was a major, major problem with drought

in France and all those grapes were lost. So they stopped making cognac and that's why they started to have to start making rye and put rye into the Sazerak. And it was during prohibition where they couldn't get rye here that they were starting to get Canadian rye whiskey. So that's the interesting things of how those things came about. Most of these things just in life come about because of necessity. You lose something, you have to replace it, right? And that's what that was. I think a lot of people don't realize that there was a huge rum coming out of New England. People don't realize that. Rum was coming out of New England? Yes. We had rum runner boats. Matthew got a firsthand look at some of this New England rum in a very weird place.

Because I remember a random thing too is when I had been scuba diving for years, but I had to go get my license. And now they require that. And my girlfriend at the time there, we ended up getting certified out at JFK. What? You would go tell. The car was within no visibility. There was this cage. He's sitting at it. He's doing your signals and you have to do it. But then we went on a night dive in Coney Island at night and there were all these rum runner boats. And then you could still find in the wreck bottles of rum that had been there in the 30s that people were smuggling. So it's little things like that that I held on to that I loved. That was interesting to me. Matthew's general vibe, of course, involves fresh ingredients and he does a lot of foraging

for mushrooms and green walnut, purple sage and edible flowers, thistles even. And I just imagine he must trek out during misty mornings with a satchel gathering herbs for tinctures. And man, I'm like, whew, this dude's living the life. But also before you grow a beard and start digging up roots, make sure that you have permission because some foraging is technically illegal. And this whole fantasy would be a real buzzkill if you got arrested. So if you're looking for locally grown fruit, say from strangers yards, you can check out fallingfruit.org, which maps overladen shrubs and trees all over the world. Usually if it hangs over a fence, it's fair game. I just zoomed in on my neighborhood and I found some bitter citrus. And then I was surprised to see

one tree in a parking lot. And I was like, oh, I zoomed in and read that it was just the dumpster behind Trader Joe's. And there was a warning that there was razor wire surrounding it. So some people who map fallingfruit.org have very liberal definitions of foraging. But that's obviously not the kind of foraging Matthew was doing. He's got all kinds of cactus fruit and bay leaf and more growing wild nearby and on his property, plus what he's gotten his restaurant gardens. It's a huge part of what I do. No question about it. It's always I could tell people I grow things, I go to the farmers market and I forage. That makes up the elements of what I do. And you do a lot of infusions too. That's primarily like when I first had your cocktails.

It's still that way. I mean, if you look at the bar, I mean, it's escalated into, you know, other things and doing a Parmesan vermouth. I was working on this liquid cheese board. I read about this. Yeah, where you baked your own bread, made it into croutons, and then soaked it in an alcohol. You're Willy Wonka. You're the Willy Wonka of alcohol. It's just how my mind thinks. You know, so yeah, it's just how my mind thinks. What kind of tips would you give to someone who wants to start infusing at home? I think the tip that I always give somebody, whether it's infusing, whatever it is, you know, take one ingredient that you love, okay, and do five or six different things with it.

So let's just say you grab basil, right, make, you know, do an infusion with it, make an oil out of it, muddle it, make a beer with it, whatever that is, you know, just take that and see, see how many things you can do with that one flavor. And that opens up your mind to everything. So infusing is very simple, by the way, you never have to worry about measurements. You take whatever empty glass you have jar, and you I always fill it three quarters away with ingredients, and then I cover it with alcohol. So you never have to worry about a proportion. And the basic rule is most of that stuff will never over infuse, although two weeks is perfect. But when you deal with tea or spice, that's literally two hours, you don't ever want to go

over that. Okay, those those are kind of the general rules is being general, but it's, it works for people. What's been your favorite infusion you've ever done? Infusion or surprising, like, oh, hot damn, that worked. I would say no question about the Seamos from St. Lucia. The Seamos. It's not here right now, but I have Seamos. It was actually my favorite drink of the menu as well here. It's so when I went to St. Lucia about three years ago, and this Seamos is magical. And it's just this briny, salty, ocean-y thing. And I mixed it with Mascal with white balsamic vinegar and wakata, which is a black Peruvian mint. And I garnished it with peacock feathers. It was one of my favorite, one of my favorite things, but that infusion is just

golden. And you, and I also love infusions where you're like, what the hell is that? That's disgusting. But then when you mix it, it's great. Some, because my favorite infusion to drink on its own is the white guava. It's like gold. What is it? How do you do that? That's just take, now white guava, so it's not the pink, the pink people think, oh, that's going to be more flavorable. There's so much flavor coming off of the skin and so much, I just put them whole. You don't have to cut them up. Again, take a jar, fill them up three quarters away, and then I fill it with tequila. Oh, dang. One of my favorite things. Couple of weeks. Give it a couple of weeks. And then strain it out. It's this beautiful yellow and the smell and taste. That's how I booked a $12 million wedding.

Oh my God. Someone hired me just because they heard about me, right? And I went and did her, like bridal shower, Soho house. And she was like this all night, with my drinks. And I'm like, okay. And she tried that. She was doing my wedding. Oh my God. I didn't realize it was $12 million. I mean, it was crazy. Yeah, it was like they had John Legend there and John Mayer. It was just like, they hired and fired me twice and all that kind of stuff. And so when you're making a cocktail or when you're thinking about the perfect cocktail, what kind of balance between sweet and bitter and sour? Or do you think makes a good cocktail? It's not about bitter, sweeter, and it's all about balance. You can make anything great if you balance it. So I like when what I

used to tell people is, I truly believe that everything goes with everything. Okay. It's just about balance. You know, you, you, you know, later on in life, I look at the, this book called the flavor Bible. Have you ever heard of that? So it's like, they write all these things about things that go well together, right? And then it was interesting. And then they would like the things that don't go well together. And of course, what I would do is I would take those. I'm going to show you how lavender and coffee can go together. I mean, so yeah, why not? Okay. But it's all about balance. So that's what it is. So for me, and also if you're just starting off with the simple formula that I told you about, that's where you would start. Okay. So remember, it's

just math, essentially two to one to one, two parts liquor, one part sweet, one part tart, citrus, and you can tweak it a little if it needs it. That's where you start with everything. So if it's bitter, sweet, whatever, start with that formula and then adjust from there. If you need to go less sweet, but that formula will never, that daiquiri formula is never going to let you down. Just in the very simple terms, you know, I think, you know, where I broke the rule is when I did the last tango in Modena, which is why that was such an iconic drink for me for a lot of different reasons. It had balsamic vinegar, strawberry, but that drink represented so much for me because it was the first time I broke the rules of not doing a three quarter, three quarter

and not using lime juice or a sweetener. I used just that balsamic and I used an ounce of it. But that is the drink that made me also get rid of a menu for the rest of my life, which is because a woman came in and she said, could you make me something sweet, but not too sweet? So I made her that. She goes, oh my God, this is the best drink I've had. She goes, what's in it? I go, well, it's got strawberries and gin and balsamic vinegar. She goes, balsamic vinegar. I hate balsamic vinegar. Can you make me something else? I said, you just told me it was the best drink I know, but I hate balsamic vinegar. Oh my God. So what I realized is how much people taste in their head, but also how much they associate the things they don't like with food.

And it's very different in the liquid form. So I got people who didn't like certain things. And this happened even during the last four weeks of service here at Moli. People like, okay, I don't like that. I'm like, can you just try it in this form? And like, oh my God, that's great. You know, and it's because the texture is taken out of it or things are taken out of it that's not associated with the food element. So they can actually love it in the liquid form, which is what I love because I do believe that the liquid form is the most powerful form. You know, when I was doing a lot of, um, dinners with Roberto Cortez, this amazing chef, you know, he would say, you know, the juice of a steak is so much more powerful than the actual

steak. Oh, and he's right. You know, like the flavor that gets trapped in there is incredible. And I realized that's what was happening when you have alcohols. The reason why the infusions are so great, it's adding a layer that you just can't do in food really, to that extent, where you can have something layered in there, but then add all these other things. It's difficult. So at one point, Matthew made a Bloody Mary with beet horseradish and then started using that in other drinks, like his borage flower topped gin and cucumber drink called the breeder's cup. And I made that drink. And here's the thing that's funny. I didn't try that drink for a month and a half. Why not? Because I knew it was great. And I was like,

I don't like horseradish. And that's the other thing I tried to tell people is I actually can make drinks for people that I would never drink flavor wise. And I don't know where that came from. I don't know where all this came from. This, how I think in the culinary aspect of it, because I got to the point where I was tasting so much in my head, I didn't even need to try it. You can just give me one of my famous bites here. It was a sea urchin bite that I did with, um, a vanilla-infused aqua beet, smoked soy sauce. And then I juiced the cactus fruit and made granita out of it on top. So it was like an uni snow cone. I didn't try that for the first month. And people, I don't understand, like, I know it's good, you know? His bar still has this

array of jars filled with booze and fruit, kind of like a very stylish museum of natural history. But the specimen jars are vastly more edible than like rubbery sharks in formaldehyde. And I can see why he just comes here to tinker, even when the place is temporarily shuttered. You know, I turned 50 this year and on my 50th birthday, nobody knew I was here the whole day by myself. I didn't tell anybody. I cooked for myself. I did. I just, and I was like the greatest day of my life. Oh, that's great. And I noticed like you look at your bar and your bar does not have shelves of alcohol. It has jars. I'm a distributor's nightmare. Yeah, because you don't Where's my great goose? Where is this? Yeah, you don't see any bottles of alcohol. What I was

trying to, what I was trying to achieve that I always wanted when someone asked me, oh, what would be your ideal bar? Well, I said, would it be Italian farm kitchen meets Japanese sushi bar? So if you want to entertain folks, but you don't happen to own a bar, what do you do? You do math. And then what do you tell people who, let's say holidays, they're having parties, how do they stock for a party? Stock for a party? Yeah. How much booze do you get if you're throwing a dinner party? How much? Well, it depends on the people. When I do events, you have to remember each bottle is about 12 cocktails. Okay. You know, because it's two ounces, right? So, and then I always figured there's going to be two or three drinks per person, at least, you know. So if you have 50 people,

then I know I have to have about 150 cocktails to be safe. 150 into 12 is approximately 12 bottles right there. Okay. Then you could do different things. You know, 12 times 12 is 144. So you're very close to that. Of course, adjust this down for smaller parties. I do not have 50 friends. And if you don't want to be shaking drinks in the kitchen all night, the other thing is you could make a killer punch, which is a very simple recipe. And I learned this a long time ago, and the rhyme is four strong, four weak, one sour and one sweet. So four strong would be the alcohol. Four weak would be some kind of juice like pomegranate or blood orange. Then you do one sweet, so one cup, you know, one cup of agave syrup or sugar there, and then one cup of citrus.

Tart citrus, like lemon or lime juice, not just like a glug of sunny delight. If you follow that, you're always going to go right. So I'll make a big punch with that, put a big block in there. And that's really great to do an easy. And if you're doing infusions, it's a great way to add flavor into that without really like you didn't mix that. And all of a sudden you have all this flavor because you infused it. That's what I love about infusions, you add one more layer without doing any work. The work is all done beforehand. Really. Yeah. It's done in a jar while you're sleeping. So much of what I did was so labor intensive that, you know, you love it when you find a new infusion that's like dynamite because like,

oh, you just saved me a step. Thank you. So cram some peaches in a jar, fill it with bourbon, or make some basil gin or cherry mezcal, maybe cram some pineapple and rum in a jar, rosemary whiskey, what have you. It's none of my business. You do what you want. You really can't do it wrong. But what would Matthew like to correct? What flim flam would you like to debunk or what myth about cocktails? Are you over myth? That's a good question. God, I haven't even thought about that. I don't even know. Throw some myths. I mean, I don't even know some myths right now. Oh, you know what I always tell people. So a big thing that people always say to me, like, Oh my God, can I mix these alcohols?

I'm like, it has nothing to do with the alcohol. It has to do with all the crap that goes in there. So what you don't want to mix is the sugar, the artificial coloring, all that's the stuff that's going to give you a hangover the next day, not because you had scotch, then you went to miscal and then you went to gin. So side note, I look this up and it is indeed a myth. And if you're used to the beer before liquor, never been sicker, liquor before beer in the clear as an incantation against evil. Well, that's mostly because if you start drinking higher alcohol by volume drinks at the end of the night, you're likely to get more drunk than intended because your judgment is already whack. You're probably going to drink too much. So what contributes to hangovers is the total

amount of ethanol or alcohol that you consume. Also, some studies show that certain alcohols have more toxic hangover-y compounds called congeners. And darker spirits like whiskey and cognac and tequila and especially bourbon have high congener content, while vodka and gin and light rum have lower levels of them. So pace yourself, drink a lot of water, and don't drive, killing people, not cute, very serious. Okay, so let's have some Patreon questions. But before we take questions from you, our beloved listeners, we're going to take a quick break for sponsors of the show. Sponsors, why sponsors? You know what they do? They help us give money to different charities every week. So if you want to know where oligies gives our money,

you can go to alleyword.com and look for the tab, oligies gives back. There's like 150 different charities that we've given to already with more every single week. So if you need a place to go donate a little bit of money, but you're not sure where to go, those are all picked by oligists who work in those fields. And this ad break allows us to give a ton of money to them. So thanks for listening and thanks sponsors. Okay, your questions. I have questions from listeners. Okay, great. You ready? Yeah. I'm just going to fire them off at you. A few people, Liza, Elizabeth, Kaylee Moore and Karen Burnham all wanted to know what are the best mocktails for non-drinkers? Well, I'll tell you what's amazing is there's a new non-alcoholic distillate called seed lip

that's out of England. And you would think it's like this gimmick, right? But I've tasted it's made from peas and that is unbelievable. So you can use that. There's the same formula that you do as a daiquiri. So two ounces of that three quarter of a lime juicer or a lemon and then three quarter of some kind of syrup or agave syrup is incredible. And then you can put whatever you want in there. It is I did my arugula drink. I did that as a virgin cocktail. It's unbelievable with that. Now, I used to always use like, instead of using two ounces of spirit, I'd use two ounces of Pellegrino or two ounces of whatever it was. But using the two ounces of the seed lip really is incredible. Oh, okay. So you literally can do almost any cocktail and use that instead. And because it's

non-alcohol, you can order on Amazon. Oh, nice. Okay. Well, you wouldn't be able to do that if it was alcohol. Done. So I look this up and yes, it's called seed lip. It's named after an old basket that was used for sowing seeds and it comes in a few varieties. They have an herbal flavor called garden. They have a clovey option called spice. Some people love that they can enjoy zero proof cocktails with it. Others are like, I don't know, either way, it will not leave you hung over or asking your stepdad to post bail. Yeah. Liza, Elizabeth wants to know what's your best tossing a patron story? What? Have you read to toss someone? Oh, toss someone. I have some good patience with that way. I have two really great patient stories, but I'll tell you this patient

story. It's not a topic. I'm going to say it because it has to do with a patron. Okay. So this woman came, this is unbelievable. So this woman came in and with her girlfriend, I made her drink, she was, oh my God, this is incredible, right? So whatever. So then she's still there and I, and then I make her another, she's like, eh, she does this for the next three drinks. Eh, eh, I'm like, am I pissed? I'm like, okay, here's the deal. It's not you, but I'm very upset that I can't please you right now. So I'm going to go take a walk and I really need to take a walk. So, you know, so she's looking at me funny, right? So I go down into the freezer, literally the freezer. I was like, what the hell was that first cocktail? A huge light bulb went

off. I ran upstairs and I made her drink. She was, now that's a drink. If it didn't have ginger in it, she didn't like it. Oh my God. And it was that simple, right? So a couple of weeks goes by, I get a phone call from her because she asked for my car, which I never thought. I'm like, this girl doesn't, I mean, she's like, oh, I want you to do a party for me. And I was inside, I was like, really? I didn't even know you liked my stuff. And then she's, and I said, well, how many people she was listening? I love what you do. Just bring a bunch of stuff. And so I show up at her house. It was actually here in Malibu. And I said, oh, what time is everybody coming? She goes, well, it's just me. And the first thing I thought, okay, someone's playing a joke. I mean,

there's cameras here. They want to see what I do, all this stuff, right? So I really played it cool. But it turned out halfway through, I knew it wasn't a joke. So I made nine drinks for her in 11 hours. All she wanted to do was to be taken care of. But what it is, every drink, I had an hour to prepare. So when I did my 17 step buddy, Mary, I grilled every vegetable on her grill, right? Oh my God. So she just had incredible time. She said, thank you. I knew halfway through, it wasn't a joke, all this stuff. So I never heard from her again. And then about two years later, I'm in Maui, okay? Okay, this gets weirder. So Matthew is in Maui. He's working. He has some coconuts and cacao nibs because he's Matthew. So he goes to put him in his hotel room and realizes

he forgot his key, but hotel staff just unlocks the door for him. I see I'm starting to put the coconut milk away and I see all these sodas. I'm like, that's funny. We didn't have these sodas. And I go put something else down and I'm like, oh my God, I'm in the wrong. Oh my God, I better get out of here before I totally freak somebody out. So I realized I ran out of there. And I called the guy. I said, actually, I think I'm the next one. I realized I was the next one over. I didn't know the room number. I just thought by site. So he let me in. I wake up. So what I did is I grabbed everything quickly. I ran out. When I woke up the next one, I'm like, oh no, I forgot those cacao nibs in the house. Oh no. I said, I have to go knock on there. So I went

around. I knocked on the door and who comes up with the woman that I did those drinks for? No, I mean, unbelievable. I got the chills again. And she didn't recognize before I told us, oh my God, she goes, oh my God, like once I told her, and she goes, yeah, we were wondering what these cacao nibs were doing on the table here. I'm like, I'm so sorry. I told the story. We started laughing and that was it. But what a story. In Maui? Yeah, in Maui. And that was two years after I did two or three years after I did the thing for her. I never heard from her. I know. Unbelievable. That's really unbelievable. Life is a simulation. Okay. Christopher Brewer and Lily Mosso both want to know what's the drink that most bartenders hate to make when they're asked for it?

I don't know about most bartenders. I would think that the drink that people don't want to make is the drink that someone tells them how to make. Okay. Do you know what I mean? And I'm not an obnoxious person too. Don't get me wrong. But they'll be like, yeah, but can you do it like this? Or can you make sure it has this? That's probably more about that. I don't know if there's a specific drink that someone, I know I remember when I was working at the library bar and I had this guy working with me, I realized how much he hated muddling and everything I do is mostly muddling. And I remember he would like try to get people. He's like, I hate when people ask me to make mojitos. So I realized that, oh, this must be a bartending thing. Like they just don't want to

muddle probably. It takes too long. The pain in the air. So I thought about that. But it was, I think it's more about someone telling you how they want you to make the drink. Just supervising over your shoulder. Get out of here. Ashley Burgamy and Caitlyn Casper both want to know, is it true that drinking different liquors can change your behavior? Like why does tequila make some people's clothes fall off? You know, it is, I'm going to speak from personal experience that I do have different feelings. And I drink tequila because of that reason. It just makes me feel cleaner and better for somebody. I don't know why that is, though. I don't know what that's about. I got to look into it. Yeah, it's a great, great point because I don't know

how much of the science is behind that. But I do know that people have those reactions to gin or different things like that, where tequila people don't seem as cuckoo. Okay, so I'll word investigated this a little for you. And there may be some chemistry behind this. Like, okay, people who sip red wine usually not out to rage and dance on tabletops. But red wine actually contains high levels of melatonin, which is also known scientifically as sleepy time brain juice. Now beer may also be relaxing because of the high carb load, kind of like doing body shots of mashed potatoes. And remember those congeners that affect hangovers? Okay, well, they may well tweak your behavior a little depending on the individual and what you're sensitive to. But

I found one very nerdy study called, quote, differential alcohol expectancies based on type of alcoholic beverage consumed, which basically said, whatever you think an alcohol will do to you, it will do to you. So if you think tequila is rocket fuel for rebounds, and then you drink it, chances are, you're going to get your groove back because you're looking for that kind of experience anyway. So you could drink like a diet sprite and be like, this shit makes me crazy. And then you'd probably act a little bananas. So just, you know, just act bananas when you need to just cut banks, texture crush, we're all going to die. Just make sure nobody gets hurt. I thought this was a great question. Juan Pedro Martinez, Frederick Roy, and Mike

Monikowski, I want to know what are the essentials for a home bar? What kind of things should you have at home? Yeah, I think I think what's important is if I think having a gin, a tequila, a mascara, like a scotch are definitely a bourbon, but have something that's good for just sipping. So maybe like the scotch is something that's a little bit nice that you just sip on and then you have things to mix with. So I have a couple of things that might be great to sip on and then things that are great to just mix with. Okay. Obviously having a vermouth, but just remember vermouth, if you open it has to be refrigerated because you have to treat it like a wine. I love Dolan Blanc vermouth. It's a cross between a sweet and a dry. So I feel like if you had that,

if you had a nice Amaro like Chenard. Amaro, by the by, is like a sweet herbal Italian liqueur and it's great for post-dinner sipping. It tastes like if port wine and cough medicine made a mixed tape, but it's really good. And then also you probably would want some bitters so that you could do an old fashioned with that. Cool. Yeah. I think that's pretty essential. It's a good round out. Yeah. It's pretty simple and not, not that expensive. Dave Miller, Lily Moss about what I know, is there a difference between shaken and stirred, which is better? It's not which is better. It's what happens, the chemistry that happens. So typically the rule is anything that has citrus, you shake and anything that is just spirit driven,

you stir. And it's for that simple. I mean, James Bond really was the one who ruined this. Can I do something for you, Mr. Bond? Just a drink. A martini, shaken, not stirred. And he took the martini, he switched it from gin to vodka, and then he said shaken and not stirred. So if you take a martini, which doesn't have any citrus and you shake it, now it's cloudy, it's watery. If you're someone who wants pure alcohol or that straight smoothness, you want that fullness in it. And when you shake it, you kind of kill that. So I think people did that because they wanted to loosen it up. They wanted the ice chips and all those things.

But it's not really the classic way of enjoying that. Whereas citrus, you really do need to shake. Whereas the only difference is a Bloody Mary is a drink that you roll, where you take it in one tin and you roll it back and forth. And you don't shake a Bloody Mary, even though it has a citrus, that's a golden rule too, you roll it back and forth. Oh, why is that? Because that can get very frothy and kind of gross. Yeah, I guess frothy tomato, not what we're looking for. You don't want that. So if it has citrus, shake it up, unless it's carbonated or a Bloody Mary. Now, if all the components are alcohol, like a Manhattan or an old fashion or a martini or a Sazerac, it just gets stirred. Now, in the

case of a gin martini, if you shake it, you can aerate and dissipate the juniper and coriander notes and then it leaves the drink tasting really dull. And that's called bruising. And when I looked up bruising and alcohol to get my brain around this, I found a lot of search returns of people asking why after a night out, they wake up with bruises. And it turns out it could just be clumsiness or a liver damage issue. So go easy on your gin and your internal organs. Anna Thompson wants to know, is there an Instagram drink trend that you hate? That I hate? Yeah. The only trends I don't like is when, the only thing I don't really like is that there's things that tend to look kind of

Pinterest. Does that make any sense? Yeah. Where it's almost like this kind of staged thing. It doesn't really seem to go together with what is being made. You know what I mean? Oh, got it. It's more like this thing's laid out to look nice. Like there's a cocktail and a cutting board and a knife, but nothing is cut in it. Exactly. What are these props? That's what it is. It's things that are used that don't make any sense. It's almost like filling in something that does. It's not really there. So you're filling it in. Okay. That makes sense. Brie Bridger wants to know, why do I always forget every drink I've ever had and enjoyed before when I go up to a bar and someone asked me what I would like? I think you're getting to a point where there's so many

better drinks being made today with so many different ingredients. There's no way you're going to remember them. This is impossible. And I think there's just so many more ingredients being used, so many more different types of things and names. It's impossible if you're not doing it to remember that. Impossible. I think when you go up, it's, you know, when like you go to a bookstore, you're like, I'm so excited and you get there and you're like, what book was I going to buy? Exactly. I don't remember. Yeah. There's too many books. I want them all, but I can't remember. There's too many choices. Yeah. There's too many things. There's too many, and there's, yeah, I guess people have that fear too of like ordering the wrong thing. Yeah. But I think what's

great about bars, if you don't like it, they'll make you something else. If they're not dicks. Yeah, they're not dicks. I mean, actually, this kind of dovetails into Heather M. Densmore asked, why do you think classic cocktails like Manhattan's and Martini's have survived, especially with so many creative new cocktails out there? I just think that they're classics, and I think they take a spirit and accentuate it in its best way. It's in simplest form without having the spirit on its own. There's not enough of new versions of those that have been extremely popular that I think have stayed. I think that's the reason why. And I think it's also the reason everyone starts learning those, so it's more of a vocabulary that they use more often,

so you're going to see that more and that's going to stand up because that is how people learn to make drinks. It's how they learn to stir things. It's how they learn to make, learn formulas, all of that. It's kind of like your daiquiri. It's like you can then expound on that. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And remember, it's like daiquiris weren't blended. That came later on. I don't think people realize that. So most people say, I don't want a daiquiri. It's like this blended thing. So one of the drinks I did was a blended drink, and I'd say, tell people, I never blend drinks, but I'm going to do this because it had mescal, passion fruit, and wild bay leaf. And I told them it's because when you put ice in it, the mescal will hold up, the passion fruit

will hold up, and the wild bay leaf being such strong flavors that that ice won't dilute it. Wow. It won't dilute the taste of it. Where daiquiri is just like, yeah, I think that's what people associate with it. And I realized that was a cocktail that was created in the 1930s in Cuba. And it is, to me, the mother of drinks because of what it represents and what it is. And it's not just like a slushy machine full of Everclear and grape Kool-Aid and stuff. If you want to talk about it, Everclear needs to go away forever. Mama Awesome wants to know, are there any, she wants to know, best margarita recipes with a pre-made mixer? Is that even possible?

Pre-made mixer, that's a good question. But the thing is, you don't need a pre-made mixer because all a straight margarita is, is two ounces of tequila, one ounce of lime juice, and three quarter ounce if you can do an agave syrup, which is a one-to-one ratio of agave to water. And you don't even have to heat that, you just stir it. So you literally could make that mix in two seconds. But that is the greatest recipe ever, I think that's called the Tommy's margarita. And I always do it with the number two tequila, the uno dos tres dos. Mama And blend it or on the rocks? On the rocks? Pre-made mixer, yeah. Mama On the rocks, yeah. No salt.

Mama No salt, okay. Renee Coley wants to know, Pre-made mixer, yeah. Mama If you want to blend it though, do it with miscal. Mama Oh. Pre-made mixer, yeah. Mama And like I said, it will hold up, it will hold up with the ice a little bit more. Mama Okay. Yeah. And then you won't feel like it's just a lost flavor. That's what happens, is the ice just creates, it makes it into a lost flavor, but not with miscal. Renee Oh, got it. More robust. Mama Yeah.

Lisa Hunting had a great question. What's up with all the different cocktail glasses? Does the shape really matter for certain drinks? Mama I think with cocktail glasses, it's just, it's just another expression of eating with your eyes. And I do think that, you know, when you taste tequila, if someone's going to do a tequila tasting with you, most real tequila people, they would love to put it almost like in a wine glass, because they really feel like the aromas and things like that can come out better. So I think when there's glasses that are intended for certain ways, they want you to experience the aroma of things more, where others are more of a visual aesthetic. But that's the thing is you don't have the opportunity to really

show everything when it's in a liquid form. But that's where the glass comes in. It's almost like using a really cool fork or, or like that. Got a plate. You know, so maybe a drinking like an old fashioned with a heavy bottom glass is and also that's different. That's the other something about that. You know, same with the Scotch. Yeah, there's something nice about the heaviness of that and sipping on it. It's not too high, you know, because you don't put you wouldn't want to put a high glass with just a few ounces of something seems weird. The idea of drinking like an old fashioned out of a red silo cup makes me want to just walk into traffic. Sounds like the worst. What is your what do you like to drink? You know, I was always a

negroni person, a negroni person for a while. And I don't drink much myself. And more, I mean, you know, back when I was covering cocktails, of course, that was part of my job. But I have been more on a like a mezcal more redic tip, something smoky with a little bit of spice to it. You have the same thing with me. Yeah. Yeah, that's great. But I've been doing kombucha margaritas. Yeah, I love it. It's pretty good. Yeah, I meant red solo cup. Please forgive me. Also, kombucha cocktails. Hear me out. Kombucha is a mixer. Little lime, little tequila, little cayenne on top. And you can leave out the tequila. It's still delicious. Carrie Weber wants to know when you go somewhere, what's your cocktail order?

What's someone else's making it? It's usually just an Amaro on the rocks. Okay. Yeah. Just a yeah, just a sipper bitter. Yeah. Yeah. And then last question is always ask, what is the thing about your job that you hate the most or the thing about making cocktails? Making cocktails are just a job. Everything. I think what always was the hardest thing I hate about it is just like, not I've never been behind a bar that has suited me with what I do. So it always just seems like it's a pain in the ass. I have shit everywhere. It's just what I do. I hate the lack of organization that comes with what I do, even though I can be very organized. The most of the bars behind like they don't they can't accommodate the type of roughage and slush that I have. And it's just a

pain in the ass. It's a pain in the ass. A lot of cleaning. A lot of cleaning. Yeah. Yeah. A lot it's a it's very yeah. It's a it's a very heavy cleaning. But what's your favorite thing about cocktails? I love creating them. I love everything about I think that my favorite thing is just coming up with something new and that surprises me. You know, that's what it is. You know, I love and also I don't know. I love that light that goes off in people's faces when they really love something or you know, I had I really loved it. They're one of the nights just before I think it was a week before service. It was such a great feeling. That kid came in from Breaking Bad, which is named Aaron Paul. Oh, yeah. I never met him, right? Yo, yo, yo. Jesse Pickman in the house.

And his wife surprised him and he sat right in front of me and every course he looked up and he goes, dude, what the fuck? You know, this is like he just was I loved it. He goes, what the fuck? You know, and I just love that. You know, it's like so people that I usually experience me for the first time and I get that I love that. You know, I mean, it's just like because I just want to pour everything into them, you know, like take this home, try this. Like that's what that's what I love. I love when when I get somebody who really is into what I'm doing, they're going to be so bombarded with stuff that it's unbelievable that they they're not going to know what to do. You know, and that's what I love. Do you keep a journal sketches of ideas that you've got?

No, that's the other that's the thing. I'm a big memory guy. Okay. And I should write more stuff down. But I'm such a guy of memory and I'm such of like, it's just there. You know, I know it's just there. Where can people find you? Well, I don't know if I should release this yet, but I'm going to maybe I should let's just do this. Only is probably not going to reopen until probably anywhere between March and May is my guess. So while Manly and Malibu is getting rehabbed for the post fire reopen, and this is a big fun announcement, I got the scoop. But I'm going to tell you this first, okay, but it hasn't been finalized. returning to the library bar one night a week, no three months starting in the end of January, probably no way release.

I'll do it for you. Okay. Oh, that's so exciting. Are they freaking out? I'm excited. I can't wait to get back in there. You really are Willy Wonka. Thank you. Thank you so much. So great to see you after all this time. I know this was awesome. Oh, thank you for being on. You're awesome. You're awesome. Thank you. We're just we're both awesome. What can I say? Okay, so you can see photos of all of Matthew's really gorgeous creations and also some of the fire damage at Eat Your Drink on Instagram. And his beverage photos are truly stunning. They're so beautiful. His book is called Eat Your Drink, Culinary Cocktails, and he'll be at the library bar at the Roosevelt Hotel in Hollywood for the next few months, one day a week until Manly reopens the spring. All very exciting.

You can find oligies at oligies on Instagram and Twitter. I'm Ali Ward with 1L on both, and there's more links up at aliward.com. Thank you to Webmaster Kelly Dwyer for the beautiful site updates. She just did them. Looks great. You can join the oligies podcast Facebook group. It's admin by Erin Talbert and Birthday Lady Hannah Lipo. Love you, girl. Merch is available at oligiesmerch.com. Thank you, Shannon Feltis and Bonnie Dutch for managing that. Thank you as always to the ever spirited Stephen Ray Morris for all of his stellar editing. He also hosts The Percast, which is about kitties, and C. Jurassic Wright, which is his love letter podcast to dinosaurs, and special editing help this week also from the lovely Jared Sleeper of the Mental

Health Podcast, My Good Bad Brain. Check that out too. Now, if you stick around until the end of the show, you know I tell you a secret. And today's secret is that I have this yellow sweater. I feel like this yellow sweater has me, really. It's the most comfortable article of clothing I've ever owned. I wear it every day, and it's become a problem. It's become embarrassing, like I can't wear this again. I have pictures on my Instagram. I'm in this yellow sweater and all of them. So just don't judge your old dad. You find something you like, you stick with it, and you wash it when you can. You wash it when you can. Okay, stay warm. Merry holidays. Bye-bye. Hackadermatology. Ambiology. Cryptozoology. Litology. Amphthalmology. Meteorology.

Peptophthalmology. Nephrology. Cereology. Celatology. Come on, baby mama.