Ologies with Alie Ward - Part 2: Dendrology (TREES) with Casey Clapp -- UPDATES + NEW INTERVIEW

Episode Date: December 29, 2020

Part 2 of a very special duo! The fresh catch-up interview to learn what the world’s most charming and enthusiastic tree expert, Casey Clapp, has been up to since his 2018 episode aired. He’s been busy. Listen to hear if he’s gotten more pine cone tattoos, what other trees he hates, which ones he gives 10/10, musical blunders, winter pagan traditions, and why trees may play a huge role in his personality. Also: his new podcast for your ears and heart. Follow Casey Clapp at Instagram.com/Clapp4Trees and his new podcast Instagram.com/arbortrarypod Sponsor links: www.alieward.com/ologies-sponsors A donation went to EcoTrust.org Listen to Completely Arbortrary: https://linktr.ee/arbortrarypod/ Casey's tattoo artist, Shawn Hebrank at Blood Root: https://www.instagram.com/bloodroottattoo Become a patron of Ologies for as little as a buck a month: www.Patreon.com/ologies OlogiesMerch.com has hats, shirts, pins, totes! Follow twitter.com/ologies or instagram.com/ologies Follow twitter.com/AlieWard or instagram.com/AlieWard Sound editing by Jarrett Sleeper of MindJam Media & Steven Ray Morris Theme song by Nick ThorburnSupport the show: http://Patreon.com/ologies

Oh, hey, it's your podcast stepdad who smells like garlic, but it's so happy you made it to this update because it's just such a comfy, cozy catch up with an all time favorite guest. So trees, trees, trees. If you have not yet listened to the full episode, you just beep, beep, beep, back it up kiddo. Hit that first. I promise you there's an order. It makes sense. Also, since you made it here, I promised an update on the unnamed tree that I mentioned

in the 2018 interview and doesn't have a name. It's been two years and it doesn't. No, it does not have one. Nothing is sacred. I'm mad at everything. I'm really pissed on one hand that it is nameless, but also on the other hand, I'm kind of relieved and I feel calm in my heart that it's not named after Pepsi Max or like T-Mobile, like T-Mobile.

Oh God, just please earth swallow me. Okay. Updates on the life and times and adventures of your favorite dendrologist, including whether or not he calls himself a dendrologist, Casey Clap. Hi, Ally, I'm just doing so great. How are you? Good. It's so good to hear your voice.

I do as well, although I've heard it a hundred thousand times now. I feel like after, I mean, I just was listening to dendrology this morning, so I feel like we just hung out this morning. Well, that sounds great. Well, hang on. The morning, hang on. The night. I'm drinking a beer right now, so we're all on the same page.

It's so good to have you back. Are you like aware that your episode on dendrology is maybe a fan favorite of all of the 200 episodes I've done? No. I've been told like recently, and I'm like, it's so stunning to me. I'm so happy to be a part of this. Yeah, no. Honestly, when people recommend episodes to each other, it's like, oh, you got to start

with dendrology. That tree guy is amazing. People love you. Oh, man. Well, I love them too, so it's very neutralistic here. Now, it's winter right now, almost. We're going into winter. Yes.

We're nearly at the solstice. Mm-hmm. Yeah, we're almost there. Yeah, four days. Anything new about trees that you have perhaps learned in the last year and a half? Anything that has recently kind of come into your world that you felt like you wanted to share? Any new tattoos?

Oh, my God. I got so many more tattoos. I was actually thinking about that because I was like, oh, my gosh, I've added to my armoredom is what I call it. Armoredom is good. That's how many trees has become more than just one. It's a collection now. Which ones do you have?

What'd you get? So I have a bristlecone pine tree tattooed on my chest. And that takes up kind of like almost a quadrant. I got a Douglas fir cone with a bunch of little mushrooms that come out. This is a fun thing. I learned this. So there is a fungus in its strobeiformis trulosatus, I believe is the scientific name. It doesn't have a common name.

And it's a fungus that only colonizes and grows on the cones of the Douglas fir tree. That's it. So quite specialized. And I was like, oh, I really want to get a fungus, like a mushroom tattoo, but I don't want it to be like one of those kind of like almost kitschy mushrooms. Everyone gets that. And I was like, nah, it's got to be a little bit more original. So I found this mushroom when I was just looking through the world and you can find it if you

go out to the forest, you'll see it right now. And I was like, that's adorable. So I took it to my artist and he drew it up and he's like, yeah, what do you think? I was like, it's perfect. Let's do it. And then there's a little mushrooms popping out of a little Douglas fir cone. And then I have an enlarged larch cone that is like right on my other, the top side of my wrist.

And then the Carolina hemlock, the sub alpine fir. And I think that's it. I think those are only the new tree related tattoos. How do you pick, by the way, of all those species, like the bristlecone pine, for example, what was it about that tree that inspired you to get a massive chest piece? Have you seen those trees? Yes. That's all you got to do is go look at them and then all inspiration done.

So the bristlecone pine is that dense, gnarled ancient tree that one Don Curry cut down while doing research, only to find that that specimen was the oldest known living thing on planet earth at the time until he killed it. So loops, but these Western US conifers, they look kind of like if a lightning bolt was made out of driftwood. It's just gnarnar in every way. I went down and saw them. It was just absolutely blown away.

And I think that they are the most uniquely beautiful trees, you know, because you can see them and they look old. And they're tiny trees comparatively. You could fit an entire one of these trees inside of a medium sized sequoia, but they're like literally twice as old. So I don't know, I could stare at it the way someone can stare at water or stare at fire, you know, like it just kind of captivates you. So that's the, that was the inspiration.

I was like, I got to get something like that tattooed and I really want to take up this massive space that I have. So what am I going to do? And I gave it to the, the artist who I work with and I was like, Hey man, I just, this is kind of my idea. And he drew a couple of things up and he was, he had his iPad and he was looking at it while he was tattooing me. And so it wasn't like a drawing that he put on me.

He was kind of like, all right, this is kind of the idea. I'm going to make it better as we do it. And he was actively like judging the tree that he was looking at and then putting it on me at the same time. And I was like, this is excellent. I love this. And when something is tattooed into your actual flesh, it really is a portable evergreen. It's a forevergreen.

Oh, on the topic of life and winter, Casey shared some dendrological myths and lore. I did some research on this with one of my friends and it is actually such an interesting Christianization, almost of pagan holidays. And basically the idea is that there were, there's always been sort of pagan holidays over the solstice. And the fun thing that I learned is that, and I don't know what exact tradition this is, if it was, you know, Gauls or Celts or something like that. But the, there was a Holly King and there was an Oak King.

The Oak King was the King over the summertime. As soon as the winter solstice happens, when the days immediately start getting longer, the Oak King's power would kind of grow and he'd get more and more strength and he kind of, the power of the Holly King would kind of wane a little bit or wax. Which one, which ones go away and which ones come? I think waning is going away. Waning, it's fading. So the Holly King was waning while the Oak King was waxing.

And then at the summer solstice, the Oak King's at the height of its power and glory when you have the biggest oak trees and they have all their leaves and they're so divine in a lot of different cultures. And then as soon as the summer solstice in June 21st comes around, then all of a sudden its power starts fading. And then the Holly King starts coming back and the Holly is obviously evergreen, at least it was the one that they're talking about, the English Holly or the sort of common Holly over in Europe.

That tree then started getting along with the more power and the more power. And then all of a sudden, you know, you have that sort of power dynamic that comes and goes and on the solstice, they would bring in these evergreen things as a celebration of everlasting life and that kind of thing. Here's a branch. So I just thought that was the most fascinating thing where everyone, like it was just this, you know, you were connected to the land, you were celebrating, you know, the turning of the days, getting longer, getting shorter.

And then all of a sudden, you know, they took it and as religions and cultures change, they kind of took that same idea and transformed it to a new tradition. As we look at it now, obviously the tradition is very much different than it was 3,000 years ago. Mm-hmm. Now, what about Arbor Day? Do you celebrate? I love Arbor Day.

One of my professors, when I was at the University of Massachusetts, he would always, he had a really thick Boston accent and he was like, I can't even do the accent. I was going to try and then I panicked and I stopped. Maybe that'll come out some other time. He would always say, all right, it's the most holy day of the year, Arbor Day, go outside, go plant a tree. Oh. And he's just, I thought that was the funniest thing because I had no idea what he was talking

about. And he's like, hey, the most holy day of the year is coming up. I'm like, what? It's like, it's April. What are you talking about? And like, Arbor Day. Arbor Day. Go to the park.

Arbor Day. Yeah, go to the park, plant a tree. All right, guy. Oh my God. He was just kicking the pants, that guy. No, what about, since we talked last, you demurred when I called you a dendrologist, saying that you were more of an arborist. Do you feel like you are still more of an arborist than a dendrologist?

Has your, any thoughts changed? Hmm. I'm going to say a little bit, yes. And I think honestly, I have to admit where once you said it and, you know, like someone starts calling you something, it's like, oh, okay, okay, yeah, I guess, I guess I am. I never, I guess I never gave myself that title, but if everyone else will, I guess I'm just going to live into it. I'm going to, I'm going to take it.

Oh good. That makes me so, so happy. Well, thank you. What about, what are you looking forward to in 2021? Actually, I have a very specific thing that I'm looking forward to and it's kind of a thing that I have to drop right now, I guess, is that I am officially actually trying to make a podcast and we, we're making a podcast. My friend, Alex Croson and I, it's going to come out on the 7th of January.

So right as 2021 starts. Oh my gosh, what's it called? It's called completely arbitrary. Yeah. I'm so happy you laughed at that. Oh my God. Okay. What's it about?

Okay. So the first episode is actually about the Douglas fur, I believe is what the first one is going to be. We have a couple that we have lined up and so we just decided that we are going to make it about the Douglas fur and the whole scheme, when I pitched this to my friend, Alex, I was like, Alex, okay, so you don't know much about trees and he's like, yeah, I know you know a lot about trees. I'm like, yeah, yeah.

Okay. I do. But so what if, what if between you and I, we just got get together and we just kind of talk about trees and then we give them a rating, we, we review trees as if they were, you know, a material item that someone could be like, oh, oh, tell me about like, what, I'm going to scroll down on the Amazon list of trees and then see all the different consumer reviews of it. That is basically what we're going to do.

We're going to introduce the tree. I'm going to talk about it and say, all right, so here's the facts, just the facts, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he's going to look at me and be like, the tree's green, it's got leaves. And that's about all I know. Oh, okay. Y'all heard it here first, completely arbitrary. Okay.

So it officially launches on January 7th, but I strongly begged Casey to put up an episode zero trailer so you can find it now and subscribe wherever you get podcasts. This is breaking news people. I am the TMZ of Tree Gossip. But he is a, just a delight to talk to. We've been friends for just years, probably decades by, by this point. And at the end of it, we're going to give a rating out of, I think, what did we decide? 10 golden cones of honor.

Okay. It came out just randomly when we were sitting there. And then afterwards we're going to take a question that someone gives us and we're going to answer it. So if someone's like, Hey, what is a ecto-micorrhizal fungi? Then we're going to talk about that. So that's the plan. And it's going to be like 30 minutes, you know, you're on your bike, you're riding, you're

riding work, you're on the bus, you're driving on 30 minutes, listen to Casey and Alex talk about trees, laugh a little bit, cry a little bit, you know, mostly because I probably am going to rate some trees that people really like pretty, pretty severely. I was going to say there's got to be trees on your shit list. Well, I don't know if you recall me talking about apple trees. Oh, yes, I remember. Yeah, there are some shitless trees and they're going to come out. We don't know when, you know, we got a pepper in there, you know, every now and then and

keep, we want to keep the vibe high. So everyone's like, Oh, this is a nice positive podcast. Right. But then every now and then it's probably going to be like, Oh, we're going to, we're going to be talking about the, the Myrobian plum. Oh, my God. Don't even get me started. Oh, my God, you're going to spill the tree on it.

Yeah, we're going to. Yeah, it's going to be, it's going to be pretty rough. Oh, I'm so excited. That comes out on the 7th, January 7th. So that's completely arbitrary or totally. Oh, it is completely arbitrary. Trust me, but it's also called completely arbitrary. So excited, specifically because we're we're doing this over the radio.

It's A R B O R trary. I had a feeling I had a feeling as we were discussing, I was like, you know what, Alex, I don't think we should make a pun name. And then what do we make it a punny name? So, you know, you have to, you have to. Is the podcast art just going to be a bunch of your tattoos? You know, it might as well be, but I think it's going to be a cone. We're just getting that figured out and solidifying that.

We just got some of the artwork put in today. So we don't. Yeah. So we got, I think it's going to be a cone and then kind of a thing on top that says completely arbitrary, kind of over it. Yeah, so excited. Okay. Really quick break to hear about sponsors of the show and they make it

possible for us to make a donation in Casey's name. This week it goes to ecotrust.org, which is a Portland, Oregon based nonprofit working with indigenous nations and private and public landowners to transition to climate smart management. And ecotrust is firm in their beliefs that forests hold the greatest potential to mitigate the effects of global warming. So you will hear about sponsors of the show that made that possible now. Okay.

Now, if you are looking to cultivate your own armorydum, who is a good gardener for that? Also, do you want to shout out your tattoo artist? Oh, yeah. His name is Sean Hebrink with a blood root tattoo here in Portland. Cool. He is such a delight. Just one of the nicest people I've ever met.

I'm just an incredible artist. Does he like trees more since working on you? I know, I wouldn't say more, but you know what I really dig and why I've kept going back to him now, like several times is that each time I give him a, you know, a thing, like say, Hey, I want this. And then I'm very specific. I'm like, no, no, this is not a, this is a fur cone or this is a this kind of cone or this is a that kind of cone rather than a pine cone.

That's, that's maybe that's a myth I should, I should. Is that everyone will always say, Oh, that looks, I love that dug for a pine cone. And it's like, no, that's, that's a dug for a cone because it's not a pine, you know, you see? And it's, it's one of those things where, you know, you learn and then you like for 30 seconds start calling people out, then you realize that you're trying to like, you know, stop a tide and you're like, just let it go. It's not that important.

And so whenever I give things to him and I'm like, Hey, Sean, I have this very specific thing with this very specific purpose, with these very specific, like biological or, you know, whatever meanings. And he picks up on it and like finds it to a T and then knows it. So like I told him about this fungus and then he looked it up himself. So he was making sure that he was drawing it right. Then when he posted it on his social media, he like called out the fungus by the scientific name and all these things was like, you're the best.

So he takes it, you know, I guess personally, and then really gives a good, a good piece of art because he, he knows exactly that I'm not looking for just like, Oh, I want a pine cone. He's like, no, I'm getting a Carolina hemlock cone. It looks exactly like this. Don't just randomly look up hemlock cone or find some other random stuff. But you know, when something is on someone's body until they die, that's a lot of responsibility.

Right. You don't want to be like the no regrets tattoo of trees. You know, exactly. Yeah. No, I agree. And I had to, I have to like think about that whenever I see other everyone else's tattoos and I judge them like not, not judging like is that good or bad, but I'm like, OK, I know that that's a ponderosa pine, but

that's a head, but those are not pine needles. What are those? So yeah, I've seen tattoos like, OK, let me give you an example. Things that are in the Lily family, Lily ACA, they are defined more or less. Now I'm going to say more by having things in parts of three. So every Lily that you've ever seen or anything in the Lily family will have three petals, three sepals or six or nine or 12. It's always in multiples of three.

These things come in three. And so I saw this and this was like some random book years and years ago where it was clearly a Lily like one of those big Lily flowers that you can get from, you know, half the stores when they're in bloom and it only had five petals and I was like, oh, oh, someone didn't do their research. And it's so when the more permanent it is, honestly, the worst. Exactly. Well, what my first tattoo, I don't know if I told you this, it's a backwards music note.

Oh, man, buckle up because you're about to love this guy even more. And I tell you this. No, no. Oh, my God. So my very first tattoo, I think I was a freshman in college and I was like, I want to go get a tattoo. It's going to be great. Cool. I'm cool. And then I went, I went to get it. And I was like, all right, I just want this music. And I think it's a, I think it's a quarter note. It's a music note, one that comes up and then goes over and then goes back down.

So I put it on and I was looking in the mirror and I was like, oh, man, no, it's backwards. So, you know, we got to flip that around the tattoo doors. Like, oh, yeah, cool. Let's flip it around. So we flipped it around. We tattooed on me. I was super stoked and I went over and I was showing my friends and all my friends were like, oh, yeah, you got a tattoo, Casey. Wow. That's great. And then a week later, they couldn't bring themselves to tell me. And we were all like, you know, sitting around, hanging out at one of my friends

apartments and they're like, Casey, your tattoos backwards. And like all at once just kind of shouted it out. And I was like, what? And then for the first time, I actually, instead of looking in the mirror, I looked down at my own chest and I was like, oh, my God, it is backwards. And that's been a thing. My friend, another friend friend was like, you know what? Just get all your tattoos backwards now. Who cares?

Did you ever correct it? Or no, no, I think if I had to correct it, it would it would get like three times as big because I have to get like the lines for the bar would have to be like big enough to cover the rest of the tattoo. So no, I just have a backwards music note tattooed on me. No, it's a lesson just to leave well enough alone. Exactly. But let me tell you, every time I look at it in the mirror, I'm like, that's a perfect music note.

You're like, I got a shitload of backwards cones, but that note is perfect. Yeah, it's exactly it's exactly it. You know, it's a personal tattoo. That's what I mean. Well, the last question I wanted to ask for this refresh is what ology would you really want to hear about? It would be something like I am so fascinated with the like how cities are designed and like what makes them work? What doesn't make them work?

And obviously I work in a city, so I'm constantly like bombarded with this. But you have like the engineers who are trying to figure out how to make stormwater flow perfectly off the side of this curb down into this thing. And then there's other people who have to deal with like, all right, well, how where the street lights going to go? And then they do all these individual things. But the just the larger planning where everyone's like, OK, we're going to make this city really cool.

And here's how and here's why. That is something I find fascinating. Oh, that's a great one. That's an awesome one. I just recorded one with an urban rodentologist and we got that sewer rats under Manhattan. That is terrifying. I heard a story where a guy fell into a like a vault under a Manhattan sidewalk.

And there were rats like it was filled with rats. And I was like, that is a literal nightmare. Oh, my God, I hope that guy's OK. He couldn't. Yeah, I think he did. Yeah, but he couldn't scream. He was down there for like 45 minutes with rats all around him until they could pull him out because he was like eight feet down. And he couldn't scream because a rat would run in his mouth.

And it's like, oh, my God, I'm shaking right now. You know, I will say that I did an episode with someone who studies like just gratitude and depression and what to do to get yourself kind of out of a funk and smelling trees and like phytochemicals in general for like 20 minutes a day was said to make people a lot happier. And that might be the secret of your success, sir. Like this might be why you're just like the coolest, jolliest person is because you're just in trees all the time.

Man, I hope that that's the case. You know what is funny about that? There's a famous arborist or like researcher and his slogan was touch trees. Alex shy goes his name. And so all of his books, like you open it up on the very front, they say touch trees because he's just like, go out and touch trees. Like people don't do that anymore. So maybe that should be my slogan from now on.

It's just smell trees. That's great. I checked today. You have 9000 Instagram followers. I just hit 9000 just like three days ago. Yeah. What did I tell you, dude? I was like, I tested you the day before it went up.

And I was like, Casey, you get that Instagram up and you're like, I'm in the middle of the forest. I was like, can you get cell service? You put that up because trust me, people are going to want to learn about trees with you, you know, book agents, lit agents. How do they get in touch with you? I guess they DM you on your Instagram. You've become my social media manager just by almost like slapping me in the head

and giving me like, Casey, just go do this. Geez, get it done. So ask charming and knowledgeable people gnarly questions because it'll change the way that you look at those limbs out the window. And plus we're all going to die one day. So you might as well just appreciate things more and ask about them. And you can follow Casey on Instagram at clap for trees as well as his podcast. Both of those are going to be linked in the show notes.

His podcast again is completely arbitrary. You can already subscribe to the trailer and get the first episode when it drops on January 7th. I think that we should all wear brown pants and a green sweater on January 7th and celebrate who's with me. No one I'm doing it anyway. Okay. So we are at oligies on Instagram and Twitter.

I'm at alley ward with one L on both. And you can be a patron at patreon.com slash oligies. We have so many good episodes coming up. You can submit questions for oligies, merch, including masks, which I know you're already wearing is available at oligiesmerch.com. And thank you, Shannon Feltas and Bonnie Dutch of the Comedy Podcast. You are that for managing the merch. Thank you, Aaron Talbert and Emily White, Caleb Patton, Noel Dilworth,

who all make the show possible with their very hard work, as well as assistant editor and full-time hottie, Jared Sleeper and Treven Ray Morris, aka Steven, who hosts the Percast and See Jurassic Right. Nick Thorburn wrote the theme music. And if you stick around to the end of the episode, you know, I tell you a secret. And this one is that sometimes when walnuts go bad, they taste kind of like if you ate paint, but I kind of like them that way because it reminds me of moving into a new place and having like fresh adventures and getting to put

your stuff in cabinets and stuff. Anyway, I think this means that the walnuts are rancid, but I haven't died yet. So it's going fine. All right, see you back next week. We'll have full brand new episodes all for 2021. Meanwhile, I'm just going to be on the couch eating strupewaffles and balling to the new Pixar film. Also, COVID is still very much a thing.

So let's all stay in for New Year. Shall we? Yeah. Okay. Great. Touch some trees. Huff some bark. Bye bye. Please clap for trees.