Ologies with Alie Ward - Smologies #26: POOP with Rachel Santymire

Episode Date: August 25, 2023

Yep. Here it is. Let’s dive right in... to poop. Camel poop. Ferret poop. Octopoop. Dogs. Cats. Yours. The charming and informative Dr. Rachel Santymire -- aka Dr. Poop -- has a background in animal physiology and endocrinology and is elbow deep in dung as a research director at the Lincoln Park Zoo. Dr. Poop sits down with Alie to talk turds and why some critters like to chow down on their own (or others’), the stinkiest poopers, good smelling poop, how getting curious about poop can help save a species, and why the Lincoln Park Zoo has 17 freezers full of dookie. You’re welcome.A donation went to Lincoln Park ZooFull-length (*not* G-rated) Scatology episode + tons of science linksMore kid-friendly Smologies episodes!Become a patron of Ologies for as little as a buck a monthOlogiesMerch.com has hats, shirts, masks, totes!Follow @Ologies on Twitter and InstagramFollow @AlieWard on Twitter and InstagramSound editing by Steven Ray Morris, Mercedes Maitland of Maitland Audio, and Jarrett Sleeper of MindJam MediaMade possible by work from Noel Dilworth, Susan Hale, Kelly R. Dwyer, Emily White, & Erin TalbertSmologies theme song by Harold Malcolm

Oh, hi, welcome to Smaller Gs. What are Smaller Gs? Okay, so these are shorter, kid-friendly versions of classic episodes. So we took them and we took all the swears out. Nothing too racy. You can listen around kids. You can listen around your grandparents, perhaps work colleagues, whatever. If you want the full length version of this episode, though, of course it's going to be

linked in the show notes. We also have more Smaller Gs up at alliword.com. Slash Smaller Gs. Okay, enjoy. Oh, hey, itologies. Okay, enjoy. Oh, hey, it's your old internet dad. Here with an episode you've all just been chomping at the bit for. Will she go there?

You wondered. She went there. Boy, howdy did she. But don't worry. Okay, this one, it doesn't get too gross. What am I talking about? It's so gross. It's an entire episode on Animal Pooh.

And sometimes ours, because we are after all animals. But I tried to just keep it as informative and as illuminating as an entire episode on animal excrement can be. Let's just roll up our sleeves and just dive right into it. Scatology. It comes from the Greek for feces. You're welcome. Scatology is a scientific study where the chemical analyses of feces, while coprology is scatology.

What? Okay, so both same. So for this scatology episode, we talk a lot about zupus. And in fact, I got a VIP tour in which I saw a freezer that was kind of like a portapoddie on Noah's Ark. The coolest thing about our labs is maybe, is our freezers. Yeah. So this one might be locked, but you got a lock on your poop.

Yeah, so you keep our freezers locked. So we have black rhino, pygmy hippo, red river hog, poo, we have some of our octopus stuff in here. We have our gravey zebra, backgroom, blue camels, our giraffe, our black bear, our Japanese macaque, picnicals, Dolores, Diana Monkey, Hi Tamron, polar bear. That's just what lives in this freezer. I have 13 others. We're gonna go all around the zoo. We're gonna go through

each one for you. It's a real poop party. I love that it's like, hey, no food or drink in here. You like, don't worry worry about it So thisologist has earned the nickname Dr. Poop. She wears it with pride So we took a seat and we talked all about tiny poos giant poos pebble poos pet poos Wombat bricks and how and why this animal scientist and conservationist Analyzes the feces of countless species and loves it, so please curl up for the scoop. On this rare science with scatologist Dr. Poop aka Dr. Rachel Sandmeier. Smell it. How are you? Smell it. Smell it.

Smell it. If you could tell me your first time last night. Rachel, Santa Byer, got it? AKA Dr. Poop. How long have you been Dr. Poop? I've been Dr. Poop for 13 years, I guess. Yeah. My parents are so proud.

Hey, the, in, Dr. In front of anything is great. And then, how many samples of Poop? Do you think you have in your 17th free phase? In general, we do about 8 to 10,000 samples a year. Oh, so much. So that's about 130,000 samples. Let's get gross. Let's zoom in and discuss what Doudou really is other than something you usually do not want to look at closely. I now you've had your hands in every kind of poo I imagine from like geese to hippos to cheetahs. What are some commonalities and what are some differences?

Like what is stool? Is it mostly bacteria? Is it mostly fiber? You're like what is this? Yeah, it's a combination of everything, right? It's just the waste product of what we ate and what's in our system. So yeah, it has lots of bacteria which are sort of our enemy for hormones because it continually

used to break down the hormones if we don't get it in the freezer fast. When you look at all these different species like elephants or black rhinos which we have here at the zoo, it's like all fiber. You're like, how is there any poo in the sample or is it just like cut up hay? You know, it's same with the zebras and horses. You know, it's really like, this looks just like hay with some poop smeared around it. But we can actually look at the poop.

When we get so familiar with our animals here at the zoo, our staff can see the poop samples. And no one in the staff have accidentally mixed up the bags because you know, they all look like certain, sometimes food item or not. But like, talking poo kind of looks like little olives and our different females had different shapes and size olives, so we knew when they kind of mixed them up.

You know, the camels, they have like golf balls, they have golf ball poops, and but the rhinos of course have the bowling ball, right? And so we don't necessarily get the bowling balls. We get part of the bowling balls, but yeah, the very fibers. This imagery will stay on my mind for a while. And then, you know, the, the, the, the apes and the primates, you know, that's just a whole another story, but is that more like human?

Yeah, it's more like human, and it's definitely more, well, I can't say that because the male black rhino feces is pretty stinky. They use a lot of pheromones and odor cues for communication because they're solitary animals. So, but yeah, I think one of the worst samples I've had in my life was actually my own dog's poop. Oh, no. He's just really, wow.

You're just like, you know, the doors get closed, you know, from the staff that work on their computers versus the fecal staff, you know, or when we do the polar bear, it's a lot of like fish and stuff. That is pretty stinky. Okay, so in a herd of giraffes or a pride of lions or a party of orangutans, I'm, I don't know, I'm just going to hope that a group of orangutans is called a party. Actually, hold on. Okay, I just looked it up and it's a Congress of orangutans. Which, well, I wish our Congresses worked like that. But anyway, I know you mentioned a little bit about bowling ball rhino, which is, I'm still boggled by. Does it really come out like a bowling ball?

It does, yes. And then, I don't know if you've ever seen a dog do this where they scrape their back legs after they go the bathroom. Yes, that's a side of territoriality. They're marking their territory. And rhinos do that, but they purposely step in their feces and then they walk away. Because that's how they mark their territory. They have these little latrines called Middens

where they come by, they defecate, they stop in it, they scrape in it, and they walk away. Roode. Wow. Wow. I don't know what your phone's data plan is, but if you get a hot second, feel free to Google Rhino pooping, and you will find we are in good company with hundreds of thousands of people.

So one video by YouTuber, Zagif Zalianoffoff shows the moment that a San Diego Zoo rhino turns its posterior to the crowd, lifts a tail and averts its flupy pink poop shoot. Oops! And then I came to that. Letting rumble forth, a dozen wet cannonballs of mashed and digested hay. A little liquid trickle at the end, kind of like a delicate bow. And when it comes to smells, why are some so distinct? It's because of what they eat.

Yeah, yeah, so I don't know what I'm feeding my one dog. It may also just be the bacteria and their gut microbes that are causing this smell. But yes, it's definitely related to food and bacteria. And now when you're doing your lab work, I've seen pictures of you, you're swabbing, you're cutting things, you're stirring them with what looks like a tiny immersion blender.

Is that correct? I call it a special test tube blender, yes. A homogenizer. A homogenizer is the, yes, is the science word for it, but it's really like if you were gonna froth up like a lot. Exactly, I tell people, that's our field methods. I said, do not use this to make mixed drinks.

This is just for feces. Let's keep it separate, yes, totally. What's your Purl routine? Do you have a hand sanitizer preference or is it like, do you become desensitized like booze, boo? Fine. You have to be careful because there are diseases and feces, parasites, viruses. And so we have to periodically remind people that this is feces and you have to be careful. And so we have to, here I can remind people that this is feces and you have to be careful. And so we have lots of protocols you never, even in your office, eat anything that's hit the ground. There's no five second rule around us, for sure.

But yeah, we have a dirty lab and we keep feces in a certain place and it has to be either locked in a bag to be in another place or it's in the fecal app. So we have these strict rules to make sure that we don't have any contamination and any spread of diseases and stuff. So it's really important actually because it still is poop though,

we're pretty desensitized to it. Do you think that's where the kind of wiring for shame around number two happens because it's easy to be like, I gotta go pee, but you would never announce that. Are there certain animals? Does it happen where with primates or social animals that seem more embarrassed? I don't know about embarrassed. But what I call the elusive poopers, cats who bury their feces, right? They hide their feces, unlike, you know, some ungulates like deer that may walk and poop at the same time. So, you know, it just kind of really depends on the species. Mm-hmm. P.S. I asked the internet why humans are ashamed of their own

poops and got back everything from our innate desire to avoid parasites, because even deer and sheep and cows do not graze where they plop. To the Bible. So, Deuteronomy 2312, anyone? Quote, you must have a place outside the camp to go and relieve yourself, and you must have a digging tool in your equipment, so that when you relieve yourself, you can dig a hole and cover it up your excrement. So, yes, even God, politely ask that you drop all juices downwind and away from the camp kitchen.

Okay? I have so many questions from listeners that I'm holding off asking some of them because I know listeners want to ask them. So can I ask you a Patreon question? Sure. Okay, good. But before you're burning poo questions, a quick break. So each episode, we donate to a charity of theologist choosing and the Lincoln Park Zoo of Chicago funds so much great

conservation work and remains free to all visitors, which rules. So Rachel, a Dr. Poope would like a donation to go to them. It's really beautiful campus, so do take a stroll around next time you're in the windy city. So that donation was made possible by sponsors of the show show who you may hear about now. Okay, let's get to your questions. The most popular question I would say we got. It was asked by Joe Wiener offer, Sid, Rachel Weiss, Hayley Hullings, Paul Hancock, Jeffrey Doyle, Madeline Winter, Shmilly Thompson, Toby James, and then first time question askers, Karen Elliott, Bennett Gerber, Kyle Torres, and JJ Pierce. Everyone wants to know.

Karen Elliott's words says, one about poop square. What is that about? How, why, what? And Paul Hancock said, how do they make a square poop with what I assume is a round bum hole? Oh.

Wow. You know, I actually had no idea that it was square because we don't have a lot of Australian species here. Yeah, it's so weird. I think something must have gone viral on the internet like a few months ago because I did not know that one that's poo square. Wow, I'll look it up.

Yeah, is that crazy? Yeah, that is crazy because out those corners. I know. I know, they can't. And it doesn't like form on it hits the ground and be like I don't know. I don't know. But I thought people were josh-ing me, but apparently they're not. Of course, I'm gonna have your back side with an explanation here. Georgia Tech scientist Dr. Patricia Yang, a fellow scatologist, lead author on a paper titled How do Wombats Make Cubed Poo?

So they took the intestines of two Wombats who died from vehicular Womba side. And as another author, David who told Science News, quote, we opened up those intestines like it was Christmas. So they found by blowing up balloons that in the last 8% of the intestines water is absorbed and the lumps get dry and are shifted around in a way to compress one side and then the other and then boop very dry square peg shoots out of a round hole. They can pop out up to 100 of these two centimeter suckers a night and they stack them up in piles

to communicate to other wombatts. What is life? A lot of people, Megan King, Grace Lauren, Joe Ferrentino, Logan Kay, Dawn Swart, Ryan Clark, and Emily Crook. First time question askers, Emily and Joe, they want to know why dogs love to snack on poo. What? Why?

Megan King says why do dogs enjoy eating cat poop so much? They treat them like I treat non-parellas, like candies. Also, non-parellas are those flattened chocolate kisses with sprinkles on one side, even though actually the little round sprinkles are the non-parellas. And in French, that means without equal. But they look like a pile of colorful, hard-shelled deer

droppings on a micro scale. But yes, why do dogs eat cat turds like they're candy? Do they know something we don't? Well, first of all, cat poo is really stinky and there are, you know, pretty much, they're supposed to be straight carnivores, right? Yeah, and so they, I mean, it's all about what they're eating. Right? So it smells so good. So, you know, to the dog, of course. I think it's just, I think it's just odor.

And then, you know, dogs maybe like to be a little bad sometimes. Yeah. But there is some evolutionary history to feces eating, especially with a female, with her litter, because they want to conceal their litter, so they'll actually eat the feces. And then, before the pups can really do anything on their own, they lick their hyene, right, to cause them to urinate and defecate, and then the mom's eat it. So it's really, it's really, I don't know if more females do it than male dogs,

but there is a reason why they would eat feces. Now, the other species, like my dogs eat horse poop, they eat rabbit poop, they eat dog poop, I mean, it's terrible. I just, you know, it's just really gross. Especially when they burp, you know? You could just like, oh, but anyway. So there is a reason why, you know, some, the history of it.

They have a history of it. So it's to conceal their, their, their den. And then other patrons have the question, and I will list their names later. Okay, now is later. And first time question askers, Kyle Wilkinson and Ashley Curtin and Elliot Warden want to know. Why do some species of animal eat their own like twice like lagamorphs like rabbits

and certain animals are like let's have that on the ground. Yeah so rabbits have two types of feces they have they defecate out vitamins and minerals and so they have to actually eat that that in order to absorb it. I'm not sure if they have to, I don't know the whole biology behind them, but if they have to actually, like their body has to break it down a little bit before they can actually ingest it.

So they have to eat, they have to eat it. Then they have another kind of defecation, which is like the waste product. Man, I wonder if they're excited because they are their own vending machine or if they're like, why do we have to ear own? Why have I have no one else has to eat their own other than some of us? Like I wonder. It's good thing we're so cute. I know. I mean, ugh, you know, I don't know why, why that would be, and except for their digestive system,

maybe is not as efficient or, you know or able to absorb some of those nutrients. So they have to eat it. Yep, poop. Left overs. Yeah. A mod, first time question asked her, wants to know how full of poop are we exactly at any given point in time, do you think? Wow.

How much poop is in us? I can't remember how long the intestines is, like, 120 feet or something ridiculous. And so if you're not eating a lot of... They were. You know, they could be in there for a while, I think. So yeah. Isn't it crazy to think whenever you're just like sitting in a get a party that there's a ton of poo there,

but it's just in bodies? I just, I try not to think about it, especially, you know, on the airplane when you're all stuck. Oh yeah. I was on an airplane this morning. Yes. Oh, thought about that. Mm-hmm. P.S., I look this up and for every 100 pounds of body weight, you make about a half pound

of solid waste a day. Oh, Sid Gopuja wants to know, does any animal have nice smelling poop? Actually, yes. Yeah? The giant panda has poo that smells like tea. The eating bamboo, it literally smells like tea. When you know, here we were, we freeze dry poop sometimes. And some lucky scientist was freeze drying his giant panda poo while I was free of driving my fishing cat poo. Lucky? So, yes, giant panda smells like tea. Casey New Haven wants to know what's up with corn, and why don't we properly digest it?

And so another person had the same question, which is hilarious. Yeah, a lot of species, I don't know if it's just like the fiber, the cellular nature of corn that makes it not as digestible without being processed. But we use it to mark a lot of feces, not a lot of animals can digest corn. Really, yeah. Melissa Crost had that question too.

So if you see kernels, there's nothing wrong with you. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with you at all. Maybe, yeah. This next one was asked by Isabel B. Holper and Wing, Christina Weaver, Jo Winehofer. Like, why do animals have such different shapes? Why do rabbits poop pebbles? And there's a bigger one. It's like, what's going on there? You know, I've been to ask that question before. I should have looked it up, but they all have their different shapes.

And like I said, we even individuals have their own special kind of shapes. You know, like horses kind of have the kidney bean shape. And then there's pellets and it must be related to their diet. They cause them to do that. And the passage rate through the gut system. Yeah.

Okay, I look this up in one theory of pebble poos is that the more likely an animal is to be prey, the more risky it is to go take a drink of water, and the more water their body wants to conserve, producing number two's that are separate hard lumps, like nuts, is that nuts? Okay, last question I always ask. that are separate heart lumps like nuts. Is that nuts? Okay. Last question I always ask. What do you love about your job as a FEC's researcher at the most?

The most? Dr. Pooh, my job. It's really, it's really that I can say I'm making a difference. We're making a difference with conserving wildlife, whether it's small amphibians that don't get a lot of tension or ferrets. This is like I said, one of the rarest mammals we have here in North America. And I work on a couple of those and it's just like we are figuring out. We're finding out why they're having issues breeding or even here at the zoo when our animals are just, it's very difficult to put them together, working with the managers,

so they can help them understand their animals better, understand what's going on inside their animals, so they can respond and take care of their animals or put them together when they're ready to breed. That's really rewarding, more successful, and we have a baby rhino or two, coming out, and just the rhino's in particular, the black rhinos are a critically endangered species.

There's like 5,000, a little bit over 5,000 in the wild. And here we've produced two, and the last, I don't know, I'm gonna say since 2013. And that is really cool, and I was part of that. And it was really rewarding to see those. And so feeling like being a poop detective lets you have a little bit more context for what the animals are going through,

what's best for them. Yeah, yeah, you know, because you can look at them, but you don't necessarily know what's going on inside. And that is my skill, a poop detective. So yeah, and that's what's great about physiology. You can really understand how the animals are responding to their environment.

Wow, so our hearts aren't on our sleeves. They're in our poo. That's right. It hurts from the toilet. Oh, that's amazing. Thank you so much for all the heart and not always great smelling work that you do. It's my pleasure.

So ask smart people questions. And you're learned so much about yourself and others, maybe too much. And if you want more smallages you can find them at alliword.com slash smallages there are tons of episodes they're all kids safe classroom safe with experts we are at allegis on Instagram and Twitter I'm at Alliword with one L on both thank you Zechrad Riegas Thomas Jared sleeper of Mind Jam Media and Mercedes mainland of mainland audio for working on these. We like to keep these small and short,

so you'll find a whole list of credits in the show notes. Thank you for listening and pass them on. Okay, bye bye. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.