Ologies with Alie Ward - Smologies #28: AGING with Caleb Finch

Episode Date: September 30, 2023

How long can we live? How much of aging is genetics vs. environment? How old are your cells? What can we learn from the world’s oldest people? World-renowned aging expert and biogerontologist Dr. Caleb "Tuck" Finch takes a quick break from his prolific research at USC to answer Alie's sometimes basic questions about everything from molecules to Blue Zones.A donation was made to Cure Alzheimer's FundFull-length (*not* G-rated) Biogerontology episode + tons of science linksMore kid-friendly Smologies episodes!Become a patron of Ologies for as little as a buck a monthOlogiesMerch.com has hats, shirts, masks, totes!Follow @Ologies on Twitter and InstagramFollow @AlieWard on Twitter and InstagramSound editing by Steven Ray Morris, Mercedes Maitland of Maitland Audio, and Jarrett Sleeper of MindJam MediaMade possible by work from Noel Dilworth, Susan Hale, Kelly R. Dwyer, Emily White, & Erin TalbertSmologies theme song by Harold Malcolm

Oh hi, it's your old dad here. Save and use some pancakes, even though you sleep until 11 a.m. Alliward. And this is an episode of Smaller Gs. If you're like, what is that? These are shorter classroom-friendly, kid-safe episodes. So if you're looking for the full Shabang

with more information and probably me swearing a little bit like a trucker, we've linked that in the show notes. There's the full episode linked. But this is a shorter one. You can listen as you carpool or with your classroom or with my grandmother if she were around. Speaking of aging.

So this is an episode that is probably the least silly one that we've ever done, but stick around to the end because it ends with a twist that's very funny. So enjoy that. And if you want more smalljays episodes, if go to alliword.com slash small age, we have dozens up that are all shorter, kid friendly, if that's what you're looking for. And again, we've linked that in the show notes along with the original full length episode

that is not kids safe. Okay. Aging. Why? How? Let's get into it. Let's talk about old age. Okay. So bio-gontology etymology.

So biomeans life and geron means old man. So the biology of an old guy, not super-inclusive in terms of its roots, but it's a subset of gerontology and examines the processes of aging. So how does old-ing happen? Let's talk about metabolism, modern life spans, risk factors for losing your memory, thoughts on a possible cause and cure for Alzheimer's, why we age, secrets of centenarians, and what a 78-year-old professor and globally-lotted science hero does to stay so fit and so sharp. So sit up straight, take some notes for the concentrated crash course on the forward march of molecules with world So what part about the aging process fascinates you the most? Is it the effect neurologically or is it the entire body? It's the unknowns that we are still working out basic mechanisms.

And we know that it is under some genetic influence. If you have the genes of a mouse, you're only going to live two years. If you have the genes of a human, you might get to 70, 80 or 90. So it's genetic. genetic, but then among individuals, the role of genetics seems to be much less roughly identical twins, lifespans. You can attribute 20% of their heritability in aging as due to genes that influence aging. So it's really a minority of the individual differences in humans and in other animals can be attributed to inherited genes. So only 20% is attributed to genes, which is terrible news for those of us who like to deny

personal responsibility. So I've been working on many parts of my career on environmental aspects of how individual gene responses to the environment to diet influence outcomes of aging. And I'm now the last six, seven years been focusing on air pollution, which shortens lifespan in proportion to the number of particles per cubic meter and also accelerates almost all of the diseases of aging including the risk of Alzheimer's. So let's go to the super basics as someone who is not as well-versed in this as you. What exactly is aging? How do you define aging? Well the basic way is at a population level

that after the age of 40, your risk of mortality essentially doubles every seven or eight years. Oh, right. So there's an exponential increase in mortality risk, and preceding that is a parallel risk in chronic diseases, heart disease, cancer, and at later ages Alzheimer's. So the individual pathways in this are not understood, but as by age group, aging increases the risk of chronic diseases that are causes of death. And then you can ask at a more fundamental level, what are the mechanisms behind that, and

that's where the mystery is. So our risks of disease and dying go exponentially up. Okay, rather than bumming you out, let that fact encourage you to write the novel that you've been intending to or call and sick, go to six flags tomorrow or wear the shoes you think you should save for fancy occasions, wear them today. We're all getting old, just go for it, champ.

Speaking of, how do you ask a genius expert the most basic question ever? You just do it, people. You live in the now, watch. Is it that our cells don't regenerate as fast? Is it? That's part of it. Our molecules don't regenerate as fast.

And there are some molecules that are as old as we are in our blood vessels and our connected tissue and in our eyes that undergo molecular deterioration. I know they say you're kind of a new person every seven years. Is that? That's not at all correct. Okay. So that's some flim flam to debunk. No, it's just not true. Yeah.

That's one of those sort of inherited tales that have no scientific substance. I have no idea where that comes from. I got to look it up. Yeah, there's no science there. Right. I didn't think so. I don't know where that came from, but it's an interesting myth. No, it's not interesting. It's destructive because it's wrong. By the way, if you're like,

was Ali just dying at this point, the answer is yes. Man, I am dying up here. Both from a molecular standpoint and psychologically, But just stick around because like life, there are twists and there are turns around every corner. So how old are you really? Okay, there's a cool math trick you can do. You take your age and multiply it by 16, then divide it by 16, which is your age, you're just your age.

I made you math for nothing. Here's the deal. Your body is a bunch of different ages, like the lining of your guts, which are just constantly splish-splashing in an acid bath, they're newborns. They turn over every five days or so. But skeletal muscles are 15.

They're about to get their learning permits. Some part of your brain are just as old as you are, just about. Other parts turn over faster. Some part of your brain are just as old as you are, just about. Other parts turn over faster. The core of your islands, you can see Optomology episode for more on that, is exactly your age from pre-birth that never turns over. This is fun. This is like antique road show for your meat-covered bone scaffolds. Well Ted, did you notice when you showed this to me that I kind of stopped breathing a little bit?

Not only that, the condition of this is unbelievable. Now how do different animals age? I know you mentioned a mouse might have a lifespan of two years. Each species has its own pattern of aging. So mice don't get Alzheimer's disease and they don't get blood vessel disease and have heart attacks, but they do get cancer and their arteries become more rigid and their lungs become more rigid because of molecular aging. That part of aging happens in humans at a much slower rate. And in addition, we have diseases that are special to the human species, including Alzheimer's disease.

Is the brain the part of our body that ages the quickest or where do we see aging happen? Well, I'd say blood vessels. So there's in terms of shared anatomy across men and women, the blood vessels are already beginning to age even before puberty. Really? Yes. I just want to acknowledge that the terms men and women and male and female are along a gender binary that doesn't apply to everyone. And Dr. Finch is talking about broad strokes in historical studies. And I just want to let the non-binary folks know out there that I see you and I love you. And what about male versus female life spans? Have we seen that change over the last three decades or pretty study? Well both, no they both they both increased as overall health

is increased and it is observed in the health richrich populations of the world, and our upper income people in this country are a health-rich people that women are living five years longer than men. Why is that? We don't know. So, what are we doing that is helping progress aging, or what are we doing we doing wrong essentially when it comes to aging? Well, the major health concern across the country is people are eating more energy-rich foods than they need and not getting enough exercise. That mean that's simple lifestyle. Take home it's boring to say, but if you are even mildly obese in midlife and you're not exercising,

you're having a shorter life expectancy. And you mentioned to something about sugar, and I know that inflammatory foods and inflammation is part of your research. How does inflammation affect the human body in terms of aging? Well, all of the diseases of aging that we worry about, blood vessel disease, obesity, Alzheimer's disease, cancer involve the molecules of inflammatory responses. So it's deeply built into our systems and in the processes of aging. So that's just a fundamental fact.

And the term inflammation comes from ancient understanding of having when you have a cut, it swells up and it's red and it's hot and it causes pain. Well, the basis for that are the inflammatory cytokines that come in to help the body clean up the damaged tissue. But responses to damaged tissue happen in inflammatory responses in arterial disease, in cancer, in obesity, and in Alzheimer's disease. So there's a shared core of inflammatory proteins that are at work during aging from the day we're born. Flames on the side we should be keeping inflammation at bay? Well that's part of the idea of exercise and diet which reduces the level of inflammation. So move your bod and eat your greens. We fixed it, America. What's happening in other parts of the world and in blue zones where longevity is higher?

Side note, what is a blue zone? So this came up in the hematology episode, and I only know that because I searched my Google Drive for the word legumes. So a blue zone is a place identified by author Dan Butler who has studied some scientists data and concluded that people in five places live the longest. Okinawa, Japan, Sudania, Italy, Acoya, Costa Rica, Akaria, Greece, and a small posse of seventh-day Adventist in the LA suburb of Loma Linda, California. So what sayeth, Dan, are commonalities among these groups? Apparently they are prioritizing family above everything else. They smoke less. They eat a lot of veggies. They are semi-vegetarian. They have constant, moderate physical activity and good

social engagement, which does not mean likes and comments on Instagram, but like hanging out with many generations in the community. Oh, also legumes. They eat a lot of legumes. So does Dr. Finch think this is just a Hello Beans? I'm not an enthusiastic of something unique about the blue zones. I mean, there are people in all of the continents who live a little longer than the average, but most of my colleagues don't think there's anything unusual about that. But if you look globally, lifespan has been increasing as early life mortality decreased

because of reducing infectious disease. But pushing against that is the global epidemic of obesity, the global sale of tobacco, which is huge in Africa and in Asia, and the global issues of air pollution, which is getting worse in most of the world because of fossil fuel consumption and global warming. So now is the time when we dive into listener questions. And also I mentioned that a portion of the podcast income goes to a charity each week. This week Dr. Kayla Binch chose cure, a LZ dot org, cure, a LZ dot org. It's a nonprofit organization.

They're dedicated to funding research with the highest probability of preventing, slowing or reversing Alzheimer's disease. To date, they have raised over $86 million to fund almost 400 studies, and 100% of the funds go directly to research. So thank you listeners for helping a lab by S&PIPETS getting closer to a cure for Alzheimer's. Okay, your were listening to questions. Now, I didn't want to take up too much of the professor's time,

so I blazed through these questions without reading off a bunch of names, but I will insert them when I can. For example, the first two questions here were asked by Liz Sundin, Athena Ballasteri, Dion Debalo, Mike Mennikowski, Anonymous Bob, and a Thompson Lucille Audenette, which might be Audene, I'm not sure, and Taylor Mutek. I have some listener questions. Almost everyone is just asking,

what's the secret to aging well? It seems like diet, exercise, rest. Yeah. Do you think that there's a maximum age that the human body can reach? Well, the evidence is very clear. Almost nobody gets beyond 100. And there's one person in the last 30 years who reached over 120, Jean-Calmont.

But there are more people getting to 100, but they still, in the last 30 years, she's the only one to get beyond 120. So Sinah, Jean-CalCaman lived to be 122. The oldest human on record, and she was fond of wearing headphones and doing chair gymnastics, prayer, fruit salad, and smoking. Well, one done he'll cigarette a day in a small glass of port wine, until she was 117, which proves that you're never too old to quit a bad habit and turn over a new leaf. So, seriously, let's note the smokes, folks. Love old dad.

And what's the role of telomeres in aging? We don't know. So telomeres are at the ends of chromosomes that get shortened during cell division. So some of our cells do show shorter telomeres in the immune system. Its actual functional consequence is not clear. So that's a clue, it hasn't been the secret to... There's no secret. There's nothing in aging that is a secret. Does he hate me? Again, twist and turns, listen to the end. What's your favorite part about the field or what you do? Surprise. Yeah. Still get a lot of it, right? Well, the complexities of biology are just awesome,

amazing. Every year there is a new level of mechanisms subcellularly or in how organs talk to each other. It's just endlessly fascinating. Any other things that you're excited about working on or you think people should know about the aging process or taking care of themselves? Well, I'm collaborating with some anthropologists and the group of people who live in the Bolivian Amazon, and what's fascinating about these people at Simanay, they're living under conditions of 200 years ago without medication, and they're growing their own food, and they all have high levels of infection. Some of them get to age 70 or 80, but what's remarkable, a small percent, 10 percent, nobody lives much over 80. What's remarkable is that their levels of arterial aging are 25 years slower than in North

America, and they have almost no heart attacks or strokes. So we're trying to understand what aspects of their environment, their diet, and interaction with their genes might slow the arterial aging to such a degree. Do you think there's anything about the gut biome that's a play there? That's an open question. I don't know. We'll see.

I guess there's a surprise and a puzzle waiting for you with that. Yep. Thank you so much for letting me ask you so many questions. Thank you so much. Good questions. He said I had good questions, y'all, he does not hate me. So after the interview was over and the mics were off, Dr. Finch said I asked great questions.

I was doing a service for science by making the podcast. I honestly almost joy-webbed in my car on the drive home. He's just super focused and all science on the outside with a very warm and curious heart. I love him. He's great. And he returned my email so fast, I'm a big fan. So to learn more about Dr. Caleb Finch's work, you can go to alliword.com slash allergies or follow the links in the show notes to my site.

I post all kinds of info about his studies and other studies mentioned in the episode. Again, his latest book, Global Air Pollution in Aging, Reading Smoke Signals. It's even available on Amazon as there are many of his other books. Oligies is at Oligies on Twitter and Instagram. I'm at Ali Ward with one L on both. And again, we have more small AG episodes go to Ali Ward.com slash small AGs or just click the link in the show notes and it'll get you a ton of other shorter, kid-friendly episodes.

And in the interest of keeping this small, we've put all of the credits in the show notes, and if you stick around to the very, very, very end, then I give you a piece of advice. And this is a piece of advice that I live by. I always keep a dish towel in the car because you never know when you're gonna spill on yourself. You never know when you might have to wrap a baby squirrel in something and having a dishtowel

in the car has saved my pants so many times. Keep a dishtowel in the car, put in the glove compartment, put it in the pocket in the back of the seat. There will be a time when you will be so happy that you have that. Trust me, it's happened to me. Okay, until next time, smaller jites. Bye bye. you