Ologies with Alie Ward - Smologies #34: PENGUINS with Tom Hart

Episode Date: December 23, 2023

Do penguins have flippers or wings? What’s up with pebble gifts? Are they squishy or dense? And why why why are they so cute?  We sit down with renowned penguinologist Dr. Tom Hart, a research fellow with Oxford University, to chat all about life on Antarctica, penguin cities, icy cuddle parties, ocean camouflage and how to become a flightless bird. Dr. Hart is your new favorite penguinologist.Follow Penguin Watch on TwitterHelp count penguins -- for science!Donations went to PenguinWatch.org  and TRASS for mangrove plantingFull-length (*not* G-rated) Penguinology episode + tons of science linksMore kid-friendly Smologies episodes!Become a patron of Ologies for as little as a buck a monthOlogiesMerch.com has hats, shirts, masks, totes!Follow @Ologies on Twitter and InstagramFollow @AlieWard on Twitter and InstagramSound editing by Steven Ray Morris, Jarrett Sleeper of MindJam Media and Mercedes Maitland of Maitland Audio ProductionsMade possible by work from Noel Dilworth, Susan Hale, Kelly R. Dwyer, Emily White, & Erin TalbertSmologies theme song by Harold Malcolm

Oh, hey, it's your internet dad who just learned how to mute her mic on Zoom. Allie Ward. Oh, get ready for penguins. Oh, I loved this one. The full version is linked in the show notes in case you have more time and you're in an environment where you can listen to swear words. But this is smallages and smallages are shorter episodes and they're also edited to be safe for all ages.

So enjoy this chyrated version of a classic episode. Let's get to some penguins. Let's get them in your ears, in your brains, in your hearts, penguonology. It's a real thing. And thisologist identified on the BBC as a penguinologist. Oh, and who better to call it that than one of the world's foremost penguin experts. He's legit. Panganology is thus legit. So he is a research fellow at Oxford University's Zoological Department. He's spent well over a decade working and studying and very gently spying on penguins

and heads up penguinswatch.org, where you yourself can go and see wonderful penguins in remote regions on planet Earth. You can join 11,000 volunteers who help scientists including him count penguins just by looking at pictures of penguins and just putting a dot on the penguins. It's so good. And quick audio note, if you hear any clickity clacking, that is just the keyboard in my shared home office with Jared, so just consider it like an ASMR treat. Okay, great. Okay, so we talked about what it's like working on the ends of the earth and how cold it is

and what exactly is a penguin and how do they stay warm and mating habits and weird knees and neck facts and diets and swimming and waddling and poo and you. So, slipping on a tux, and slung down the ice to join us for one of the most anticipated episodes of Oligis, maybe ever, with Penguinologist Dr. Tom Hart. I'm not sure if you understand how thrilling this is. You are perhaps like the best person to ask about penguins, but also you're the best person to have an allergies because you are a self-titled penguinologist. Absolutely.

How many times have you been to Antarctica for your work? I haven't a clue. Yeah, so that many. Yeah, genuinely, I don't know. But I think it's something like 13 seasons worth over about 15 years of, so I missed a couple of seasons since I started. A few of the places he commutes to for work are the Sandwich Islands and South Georgia, which are little, little tiny specks, no bigger than a hundred miles long way off the coast of Argentina. Just above the continent of Antarctica. Now, in Antarctica, the continent, who even owns it, I asked Google for us?

Well, it was air quotes discovered only about a hundred years ago. It doesn't really belong to anyone. It's likened to a condominium, politically, with different countries having jurisdiction and putting research stations there. And there was a 1959 Antarctic Treaty, and essentially said, hey, nobody answers. Okay. Now, parts of Antarctica. How cold can they get? Negative 89 degrees Celsius. That's negative 128 Fahrenheit. And it's a polar desert. It's blustery. It's cold. It's white, it's icy, it's pristine,

it's gorgeous. Now, in terms of critters, you got your orcas, you got some seals, some albatross, you got some shrimpy little krill munchies in the water, and of course, penguins. And no, when you're talking about these colonies, how many penguins are we talking and what species? Tell me about these penguins. As someone who has never seen a penguin outside of a zoo. It entirely depends on the species and where you are. So in Antarctica, on the mainland continent of Antarctica, the colonies are actually often quite a lot smaller. So, gen 2 penguins are daily, they're often in colonies of about three, five thousand. With a few exceptions, so when you get into the Rossi, they can be a lot bigger.

They might be several hundred thousand. Emperor penguins on sea ice, they're very varied, but yeah, it could be anything from a couple of thousand to again a hundred thousand. So a colony could be as populous as the city of Boulder, Colorado, or even Vacaville, or West Covina. Hi, West Covina. The largest colonies on Earth are in the South Samuach Islands, and those are, well, they were, we haven't finished counting them recently, but they were 1.3 million pairs. The movement around the colony is phenomenal. I mean, it really is, it is a bit like a city in the respect that you've got. It loads a nest that are kind of really regularly spaced.

So the behaviors you see are largely the kind of stoic ones, the ability to stay in one place and stay warm for a long time. And then these massive highways of movement and partner exchanges. So you see a lot of what you see minute to minute is penguins huddled over on a nest and then occasionally one relieving it and the next one going to see. And now basic questions about penguins. What exactly makes a bird a penguin? Well, common sense.

History, I mean, they're a monophiletic, which means they evolved once and then everything else has diversified within them. Oh, so it's thought that penguins diverged from the ancestors of albatrosses and petrals, 71 million years ago. What is a petral? You're asking? It's a good question. I didn't know. It's a tube-nosed, short-winged seabird, and if you squint at a picture of a petrol, you can kind of see the resemblance to a penguin. It's kind of like looking at two brothers with wildly different haircuts, and one of them can fly. But penguins, penguins, you are great swimmers.

This is not a contest. What makes them a penguin in terms of, if you're going to describe it, mates, quite a large seabird. The Seabirds tend to be larger on average than other birds and they don't have hollow bones so they've not by giving up the ability to fly, they've become a lot better adapted at diving and swimming. That's also allowed their feathers to change. So those are more about hydrodynamics and insulation obviously. Yeah, there's a lot of cold adaptations both anatomically and behaviorally as well, but one of the big things that people forget is just starvation tolerant. I mean they you think of the

Emperor penguins the the males that incubating an egg and then a chick for about three four months. That's a lot of it. So any other species, they molt all at the same time. So flying birds, they molt several feathers at a time so that they can still fly. So in case you miss this, we covered it in plumology, but flying birds will lose a flight feather from one side and then the other, that way they can keep balance.. In some species like parrots and pelicans, it can take them up to two years to replace all those ding-ding feathers. But our penguins, penguins are your friends who can and ball into a pool instead of dipping a toe in.

They are right or die. All at once, let's do this. Penguins all have this catastrophic molt where they then go to sea for a week or so, feed up as much as they can, and then they stand in one place looking grumpy, losing all of their feathers before the winter. Oh! And what are some behaviors in penguins that are so different? Like, what are some of the behaviors that are so endearing about penguins, or make them bad people.

I mean, do we have to call it endearing? I think that they're awesome. No, we don't. They deserve our respect. Okay. Condence in me, man. I mean, one of the people think of is huddling in in emperors, but that really is almost only in emperors for the breeding. in emperors, but that really is almost only in emperors for the breeding. King penguins that look very similar but are in the sub-antart to come places like South Georgia. They also huddle over winter, but only the chicks. So the chicks get left behind and you see these massive aggregations of chicks huddle in to keep warm. So mostly it's the thing that's found in chicks rather than rather than the adults. And it's a mixture of trying to avoid big predators pecking at

you as well as to stay warm. Come on. A bunch of fuzzy ground birds in tuxedos having an icy cuddle party, let me have this. Also, a quick who's who of penguins? Are you ready for this? There are 17 to 20 different species. And my understanding is that there are more than 20 penguonologists who disagree about subspecies. But either way, on the shores of Antarctica we have Emperor penguins. These are the big guys. Three to four feet tall, they have this sheen of golden yellow on their face and chest. And then there are smaller a daily penguins, which have very simple curved lines. The black and white, a daily penguins, which have very simple curved lines.

The black and white, a daily penguins look like mid-century modern of penguin design. Very simple, so elegant. King penguins look like smaller emperor penguins, and they're in the northern reaches of Antarctica and the Falkland Islands, and Chinstrap penguins. They look like they're sporting a little black bic helmet. They live on the islands in the Scoti sea. Gentus are on the Antarctic Peninsula and the nearby

islands, and they're the ones with the orange feet and a matching orange bill. Gentus are like those ladies with nice shoes and handbags that go together. Crested penguins, those are the ones with the bananas, yellowish, spiky things near their eyes. They have a very speak to the manager haircut, and they include rock hoppers and macaroni penguins, named not for the pasta, but for the flamboyant men's fashion style of macaronism of the 1700s. So fabulous. Now, there are banded penguins,

which have kind of a racing stripe around their bellies. Those are in South America and South Africa. They include the jackass. There are yellow-eyed penguins in New Zealand and the subanarctic islands and finally, finally, little penguins. Those are on the southern Australia coast in New Zealand and they have a bluish tint to their feathers and they're teeny just over a foot tall. Maybe three apples high and blue. Motion to call them smurf penguins. Alright, also 37 million years ago. There was a colossus penguin which stood six feet eight inches tall. The same height as LeBron James. So if you take nothing else from all in G's as podcast, just know that at one point on planet

Earth, there were groups that look like entire NBA basketball leaks consisting only of ginormous penguins. The movement around the colony is phenomenal. I mean, it really is, it is a bit like a city in their respect that you've got loads of nests that are kind of really regularly spaced and so there's just penguins looking quite stoic staying in one place and then these massive highways of movement and

partner exchanges so they can't leave the egg so you see a lot of what you see minute to minute is penguins huddled over on a nest and then occasionally one relieving it and the next one going to see. So the behaviors you see are largely the ability to stay in one place and stay warm for a long time. And then it's really, really visibly about the dedication to an egg and then a chick. And how do they find their nests again? Do you guys know? If it's known, I don't know it, but it's like in a crowd, you'd go to where you last saw them, then you might call.

I'm over here. Do they have certain calls for each other? Absolutely. So they have some particularly between chicks and adults and then between the adults between the partners. It's probably more tone, so I'm sure they can recognize them by voice. But a lot of it we think is tone. So it's like you come home, say to a partner, how are you dear? Or someone says, how was your day? And you say, oh fine. And they say, right, what's wrong? Can I ask you questions from listeners? Yeah. But before your questions, each week we donate to a cause of theologist choosing. And this week

we did two. He had two picks. And I was like, let's do it, man. So one is a terrestrial restoration action society, Cichels, which plants main groves and helps with deforestation along coastal regions, which also helps to offset carbon footprints associated with global travel. So jet-setters, that's a good one, an excellent choice. Another donation is going to Penguin Watch, which helps fund Dr. Hart's work alongside his collaborators

around the world who've researched the threats to penguins and how to mitigate these threats using long-term monitoring in the field and using genetic analysis of penguin feathers to get a complete picture of how populations are changing. So donations went to both organizations. That was made possible by sponsors of the show, which you may hear about now. Links to those sponsors and the charities are in the show notes, but now your questions. Elena, Clemen, can you share all of this? First time question asked her, what's your now?

What does a penguin feel like? What is their texture, but also if you squeeze them just a little bit? Would they be squishy or really solid? They would be really solid and they would hurt you back. Okay. They're feathery. They'd feel like a strong muscled duck or... It wouldn't feel soft and squishy like a dog or a cat. And also their bones are not hollow, so are they denser than your typical bird?

They're definitely... yeah, they're definitely heavy than any equivalent size. And also they use their flippers as weapons, both on each other and on passing researchers. So yeah, they will flip a whack here if you get too close. Have you ever been slapped by a penguin? Oh yeah. Does it hurt? Yeah. Okay. Are there flippers also feathered, right? Yes, they're very small feathers. So those are wings, they are flying underwater. But the feathers on a flipper are very small. It's almost like a shark skin. Oh. Where they're trying to shed small vortices so they don't get a lot of drag.

Oh, okay. Okay, I looked up photos of penguin feathers and yes, on the flippers, they're very little and they overlap kind of like roof tiles. And then on the body, there is some serious fluff under the shiny surface. So that's good to keep out the chill. Maybe serves as padding for body tobogging, perhaps? Sabina, Kierty wants to know, do penguins really slide on the ice as you see in Super Mario? I don't know what happens in Super Mario, I'm really sorry, but they do slide on the ice.

They do? Are they having fun? Well, it's usually if they just need to get away fast or if it's really downhill. Okay. I mean, they seem to prefer to walk unless it's really hard going because The snow is actually quite coarse and it rubs all the oil off their feathers So they want to keep you know that means they've got a pre-enlightter and we oil them Okay, I was like where are they getting this oil? They probably barf it up from a krill pouch in their beautiful weird necks

So I looked it up for us. And thankfully, it's just from a grease spigot near there, but no biggie. It's at the base of their tail. It looks like a little fleshy, knobbered jobber. It's called a Euro-Pigial gland. But, you know what, if you're close pals, please call it a pre-england. Michelle Lee wants to know, can penguins drink seawater? Is that how they stay hydrated? Absolutely. Yep, they eat snow and drink seawater and they have a gland just beneath their eyeball at the back of the bill. A lot like our kidneys but actually functional for drinking seawater so they can shed saline quite well without it dehydrating them. But they would give them a choice that would rather drink fresh or snow because you're not having to expend energy. Of getting rid of the salt. A lot of people

had questions about flight and wings and flippers. They were Stephanie Burr-Tee's, M. Anna Valerie, Michaela Goings, Vanessa Frey, Courtney Ryan, Corey Nevis, and Ashlyn, who wrote, do penguins have flippers? Are they technically wings? Oh boy, I'm so excited for this. Troy Clarkson, as well as others want to know, have penguins always been flightless birds? Or were they at one point able to fly and then they just got better and better at swimming? Yeah, flightlessness has evolved in seabirds several times in

calmernets in the orcs and also in penguins. So I think the nearest modern relative is something like a pelican. And the ancestral penguin was quite big and gradually got better at probably diving and then gave up flight. And so for a penguin to evolve, you probably have to have no predators on land, and you probably have to be quite close to your food source so that you get better at diving and you, you know, it matters less and less that you have to either be able to fly to escape predators or that you have to be good at flying together, And then you probably just get better and better at diving. A lot of people, Sarah Nichelle, Josh Duncan, Megan Johnson, Alaina Clemens and Charles,

Madeline Dunkel, Taley, Kawakami, Dan P, all want to know what's happening with pebbles, what makes one pebble better than another, how do penguins decide on the best pebbles to give their mates? Um, lots is the simple answer. I mean they tend to be of a certain size. Partly I think that's what's available but they're definitely choosing. I mean it can't be like a stack of grain, it can't just fall down. Their for insulation It's to keep the eggs and the checks out of

melt water when it starts getting a bit sloppy. So they're like a raised stone doughnut and the higher the better. I think it's not just giving them their mate because they both do it, they both maintain the nest, but the male is usually building, well the male is building it and then the female is usually helping. There's a lot of maintenance in between foraging trips. So they're functional, they're not just like, I thought you might like this. It's a bit of both, it's good real estate.

It's showing that you can provide, but so that's more in the choice, and then it's maintaining something that it's maintaining a nest. Some people had questions about neck's knees, a tie and a mechanism wants to know why does a penguin's neck account for so much of his body and Madison Noberga and Hadley literally just wrote penguin knees? What's happening? Well, penguins do have knees, they're just tucked inside their body. So they look like a swan sat up

right basically. Okay, so if you can picture a penguin, like no neck, tiny stubby legs, right? Ha! That's what you think. That's what we all think. They're tucked up in almost like up near their ribcage. And then their seemingly bodybuilder lack of a neck is actually long boy. Their neck goes all the way down to where their flippers start. Pretty much, do they look like a fluffy potato? Yes, but what's under there is none of our business. The neck, I'm not sure when the neck's are so long,

because it really is tucked inside the body most of the time. It's used in co-op shit, but in the water, I mean it's tucked right in and they look a lot more like a torpedo. But they still have a lot of dexterity in their feet, in their legs, both walking and also in the water as rudders. Oh, as rudders so that's kind of how they maneuver so fast. Yeah, it's deep. Can they dive? The record is an emperor penguin that's about just over 500 meters. The smallest ones, little penguins in Australia might be 20 to 30 meters.

Most of them in Antarctica are diving where the prey is, so that's kind of often anywhere between 40 and 60 meters. Emperors half a K, that's pretty bonkers. Kylie will consider, wants to know, are they black with white feathers or white with black feathers? I'm not sure, I think, developmentally, they are white with black feathers, but it's amazing how many species are both black and white.

So that's one of the coolest things about penguins. Is it, I mean, in general, everyone thinks of them as upright and they're not that is where they come ashore to breed and if they can breed in water they would when they're in water that's the natural element and like cormorants like so many seabirds and also a lot of killer whales and things like that. This counter shading is camouflage. So if you look at them in the water from above, they're dark against a dark background.

And if you look at them from underneath, they're light against the light background. So you just see black and white animals everywhere because that seems to be just a natural way to camouflage yourself in the ocean. I never even thought about that. Orcas and penguins, they're wearing the same fabulous outfit. The most common question I got, by far, and it is. Why are they so cute?

Genuinely, no comment. Ha ha ha. Do you find them cute? I know you work with them, but do you? I know. And don you find them cute? I know you work with them, but do you know? I don't find them cute. I find them absolutely awesome. Okay. No, they're not cute, they're wonderful. Okay. I love that distinction. The last questions I always ask. What's your favorite thing about penguins or your work? The year to year is the ability to make a difference. Then the kind of minute to minute the highs are, I mean, we get some cases we've been to places

that no one's ever been. And a lot of them are just people where very few people have been or seen what we do. There's quite a few nutty moments where you pinch yourself and genuinely cannot believe you get to do this. Thank you so much for doing this. You are the world's most famous penguinologist. So ask smart penguins questions because they deserve our respect. They are not cute, even though they are very adorable. So to watch more penguins and follow Dr. Tom Hart's work, you can check out Twitter.com slash penguin underscore watch. They're also penguin underscore watch on Instagram.

Penguinwatch.org will take you to the best video game ever. You can help scientists count business geese. They're using community science to get their counts right. And it was like animal crossing but real animals. So there you go. You just get to look at pictures of penguins and clickity clickity click and help them count. It's the best. A link to that will be in the show notes.

Also linked is more episodes. Also linked is alleyword.com slash smologies, which has dozens more kids safe and shorter episodes you can blaze through and thank you Mercedes-Mateland of Madeland Audio and Jared Sleeper of Mindgem Media for editing those as well as Zeke Rodriguez-Thomas. And since we like to keep things small around here the rest of the credits are in the show notes. And if you stick around until the end of the episode I give you a piece of advice in this week. Something that saves me a lot is I always put things in the same pockets in my backpack. Earbuds, they go in the front pocket.

Pencils, middle pocket. I carry around a bamboo spoon and fork in case I ever need it. Also middle pocket. That way, when you're digging around in your backpack, you say, I know exactly where that thing is because I always put it in the same pocket. That thing has saved me so much digging. All right, I hope that helps. Bye bye!

No, please. No, please.