Ologies with Alie Ward - Smologies #5: VETERINARY BIOLOGY with Vernard Hodges & Terrence Ferguson

Episode Date: November 2, 2021

At long last: an episode dedicated to veterinary medicine! Dr. Terrence Ferguson & Dr. Vernard Hodges have been friends for nearly 30 years and have co-owned their rural Georgia veterinary clinic, Critter Fixers, for over 20 years. The two wonderful buddies talk about getting accepted into vet school, caring for spiders & camels & lizards & toads & kittens & doggos, the weirdest things they’ve extracted from animal tummies, if our pets love us back, keeping kidneys healthy, grain-free diets, what to do if your (Alie’s) dog is plumping up by a few pounds, what they wish animal owners knew, when it’s time to let go vs. keep treating a pet, the daily rollercoaster of emotions that come with vet med -- and their charming, informative new show “Critter Fixers: Country Vets” on NatGeo Wild.Full, uncut, NSFW Veterinary Biology episodeMORE Smologies episodesFollow Dr. Hodges & Dr. Ferguson on InstagramTheir vet practiceWatch “Critter Fixers: Country Vets” on National GeographicA donation went to It Takes a Village FoundationSponsors of OlogiesTranscripts and bleeped episodesBecome a patron of Ologies for as little as a buck a monthOlogiesMerch.com has hats, shirts, pins, totes!Follow @Ologies on Twitter and InstagramFollow @AlieWard on Twitter and InstagramSound editing by Zeke Thomas Rodrigues & Jarrett Sleeper of MindJam Media and Steven Ray MorrisSmologies theme song by Harold Malcolm 

Oh, hey, it's that ladybug that just landed on your arm to say hello, but way too quiet for you to hear. Allie Ward, back with episode number five of Smologies. What is Smologies? So glad you asked. So we took full episodes of oligies, and then we sliced and diced them up to make these bite-sized, also bonus classroom-friendly edits of our deep dive oligies classics. So if you haven't listened to the original full-length episode of Veterinary Biology

and you don't mind the occasional salacious detail, maybe a little bit of swearing, go back and listen to that at the link in the show notes. But if you only have 20 minutes or you need a G-rated version that is suitable for all ages, you are in the right place. Okay, so in this episode, we sit down with not one, but two veterinarians who also happened to be best friends for over 30 years. That's right. It's a two for one.

So Dr. Hodges is one of the vets. He has kind of an edgy, hip, asymmetrical haircut, almost like a half mohawk. And when we sat down to record, he was wearing a dark button-up shirt and a blue sport coat, and Dr. Ferguson has a lower voice and is wearing a T-shirt with the red Critter Fixer logo underneath and a plaid blazer, and his head is neatly shaved to a perfect shine. And they both grew up in Georgia. They got their bachelor's degrees from Fort Valley State University and their doctorates in veterinary medicine from Tuskegee University in Alabama.

And they worked elsewhere for about a year before they teamed up and started Critter Fixers, their own practice together in rural central Georgia, south of Atlanta. Oh, and they also are the stars of the Nat Geo show, Critter Fixers, Country Vet. So these guys have seen it all from exotic pets to diet fads to hairballs from a variety of species to medical breakthroughs that have the potential to extend the life of your favorite pet. So we covered their vet practice, how they learn and retain so much information about so many animals.

How hard is it to get into vet school, things they wish all animal owners knew, and how to deal with a chunky, chunky, cutie baby such as mine. So saddle up and get ready to ride on out to the sunset with real life Critter Fixers and veterinary biologists Dr. Bernard Hodges and Dr. Terrence Ferguson. So Dr. Ferguson starts off by telling us that even though being a veterinarian is his dream job, he still faces some on the job challenges. For example, no two days are ever the same.

When it comes to veterinary medicine, how do you even prepare for that because you've got a ruminant with four stomachs, you've got a toe of the breeze through its skin. How do you, where do you begin school, you know, a lot of people wonder, you know, you get out and you may practice large animal medicine or you may practice small animal medicine or you may practice exotics. We kind of do all of them. But when you're in veterinary school, you don't specialize. So we have to learn about all the species.

And when you, you know, once we come out, you know, you kind of refining your skills are there times when you have to go back to the book or cause one, of course there, you know, there are a lot of species and you don't see them every day. Dr. Hodges says that in the early days, they'd have to do dip tank x-rays, wait for them to develop and then send a snail male envelope with a question to a specialist, wait for it to get there, wait for the specialist to write something back and snail male back. But now modern technology lets them get an x-ray in less than a minute and they can get a complete pathology or cardiology report from a specialist in like half an hour.

So this is good news for vets. It's better news for pet owners, which by the way, in America, according to a 2019 study, there are 94 million pet cats in the US, 90 million dogs. And hey, guess what fish people, 157 million fishes out there in your houses. So yes, technology helps them too. Even though we're in rural Georgia, we do have the specialist that we can reach out to in the, in modern technology has definitely, definitely had his, his, his play out. I would say in our lifetime, right?

I mean, don't you think we probably can keep an animal probably alive maybe two, four years longer? Yeah. Because of advancement. We can detect things a lot earlier. We have chemistry, pounds of blood. We can run now and detect kidney problem a year or so before it happens. You know, at one time we only saw when the animal came in, it was sick.

We ran blood and kidney failure. And we hadn't seen that blood at all. And wait a day. Yeah. And we had to wait. So, but then we know two thirds of all kidney function is lost once we see the values are abnormal. So now we have tests that we can detect that we can do something to, to kind of slow that

process down. For more on kidneys and how they work, you can listen to the nephrology episode or the small g's, nephrology's when that comes out in the future. When it comes to your typical day, I know that you're sometimes maybe you're out looking at a llama in a barn and then maybe you're delivering puppies in the office. What is a typical day like? And then also add cameras on top of that. There really is no typical day.

And I'm not being, I'm being facetious, but then again, it's serious because we, we will make schedule out calls, but you never know what you're going to see when you go out and you never know what's going to come through the door that's not scheduled. We try to do our surgeries in the morning, one of their schedule, try to get them in in the morning because we'd like for them to be done about 10 and taken care of so that they're able to be up and go home that same day, depending on the procedure. And then in between surgeries and the rest of the day, we're seeing clients and we may, we don't, you just never know what's coming in.

What about that C-section that comes in in between? Right. They may be in surgery doing a cruciate surgery that, you know, it may take a while to do and he calls and hollers in and look, I have a dog this, right, because he has a C-section. That actually happened on the show. Another reason to watch their show, Critter Fixers on Nat Geowild. So next we tackle the topic of exotic pets and how everyone should do at least a basic googling on how to care for their new animal.

What do you wish that pet owners or your clients did differently or knew? Is there something that you wish you could just telegraph it into pet owners' heads? In society today, it's bigger the better, the more exotic or unique the better and everybody want to go big or go home and this thing. But a lot of times the simple things like these, these exotic pets, I really wish they were educated on how to take care of them. You know, I had a case last week, fair, it's a simple case, there's this bearded dragon which is a type of lizard, it came in, I took X-rays, it had brittle bones, it wouldn't

move, it was dragging itself across the floor, it needs calcium, it needs all of it, they need UV light or either sunlight, you know, obviously you can't stay outside with your lizard all the time, so you need some UV light. You try not to make the person feel bad, but I was talking to her and I was like, you know, this is what's going on and it was something simple, I was like, I want you to Google something. I said, just Google ultraviolet light and metabolic bone disease. I said, I'm going to take an X-ray and when I came back in, she said, wow, doc, thank you. She said, I see what's going on, it's simple.

But those kind of simple things, something $20 light could have prevented this, you know. So it's just, I wish and everybody wants to get more and more exotic. I mean, we're seeing all kinds of different animals, you know. And so I just wish that people could were educated more. Speaking of education, we chatted about the competitive nature of veterinary medicine and how being different might set you apart from all the other folks with the same dream. What do you wish people knew or what is like some encouragement that you would want to like give to your younger self or people who are like, I want to be a vet, but it's hard.

So the first thing I like people to know is, and this is not to discourage, but I want them to realize when I talk with the kids, there are only 31 veterinary schools in the United States. Really? Yes, only 31. Okay. So the average GPA to get into veterinary school now is about 3.7. That's very high.

That is very high. So not only that, there are a lot of people with high grades. So you have to find that thing that makes you different. That separates you. You know, go to your local veterinary and ask them, can you volunteer? And or go to your local shelter, find that thing that makes you different. But yeah, that's one thing I want people to see. I know we have 50 states, they're not even 50.

Right. Yeah, they're only 31. Okay. Let's say I made it through vet school and I'm now a practicing veterinarian. How do I go about diagnosing a sick critter? Dr. Ferguson explains. Well, when I talk to kids, I always tell them that you have to use your senses, except one, we don't taste.

But we have to visually. It has happened a few times. Well, unfortunately, not knowing. So, you know, even when that you approach the animal or if we're in the clinic and it walks in the door, it may not even be coming in the room yet. But you're already getting the visual. And one thing that we always learn probably first walked in veterinary school is you have to know normal before you know, before you know abnormal.

There's no way to know what's abnormal unless you know what's normal. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, you're watching the gate, you're smelling. What does it smell? There are different things that clue you in. So almost like investigators, you know, we're trying to clue in on all these things to try to figure out what's going with them.

But you have to be basic and work your way up. Okay. On to your questions. Man, you had some great ones. But first, every episode we donate to a cause of theologist's choosing. And this week it is going to, it takes a village foundation, which instructs children in all aspects of business fundamentals. And it helps them to come up with ideas for their own businesses.

And it also provides assistance to local adults, conducts community business outreach, and they host seminars on different topics. And this donation we made is bookmarked to go to testing and test prep. And doctors, Hodges and Ferguson are eager to use some of this donation to ensure that students are giving every opportunity to succeed. So learn more about what they do at ittakesavillagefoundation.com, which was founded by Dr. Hodges and the VP is Dr. Ferguson. So that donation to them was made possible by some sponsors of the show.

Okay. Your questions. Now, this first one regarding just general weirdness was asked by Gabriel Jolin, Ford Gonzalez, Unuseful Spoon, Ariel, PJ, Sakura, Janie Martin, Courtney Williams, and H.R. Bunker wants to know, what is the weirdest animal you've ever treated? Probably for me, I would think a spider. A spider?

Yes. What kind of spider? We had this, this tarantulas guy brought in and it wasn't eating like he thought. That probably was different. I did have to kind of research and think about that a little bit. I mean, he had these, these big spiders. I don't know if it made the show. I know they did tape it, but I don't know if it made the show.

But it will get in the web and we'll kind of stand the corner and we'll eat there. But the biggest thing is this, this cage was a little small. So it didn't need to eat as much. So it was more of a husbandry issue. Actually, once I got it out, which was weird, this thing was as big as my palm in my hand. So, you know, and it actually kind of shot me. And when it bites, it's almost like a... When it bites?

Yes. Almost like an electrical shock. He's not telling you that, but that was probably the weirdest. I was wondering why was somebody wanted a spider, but it was interesting. I think that was probably the weirdest. But the biggest thing is just knowing about what these animals need in captivity. A captive spider obviously wouldn't need to eat as much as a spider that kind of lives in the desert or do everything.

So that was pretty weird. Mm-hmm. What about you? I guess the weirdest. I don't have a spider. But I think because we're in Georgia, whether it's rural Georgia or Atlanta, doesn't matter. I think the camel.

You don't see a camel every day. I don't see many camels. Surely not in Georgia. Sarah Trevino, first time question. Asker wants to know, very important question. Do dogs love us as much as we love them? And do they know how much we love them? Do you think?

I don't know if they know. In veterinary school, we used to talk about the human animal bond. And I definitely can see it. I think my dog loves me as much as I think so. I mean, I love my dog a whole lot. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you just think when you go to work, you can have a great day or you can have a horrible day.

When you get home, it doesn't matter. Every time. You're going to be greeted the same way with excitement, with love. I don't know the level, but I definitely know they know that we love them. And it's unconditional both ways. Kind of like that move in 100 First Dates. Don't call me loose. I barely know you.

Sweetie, you're sort of dating them. Sorry, I'm not better looking. Every time, every time, it's the new, they love you like a hundred percent. No matter. It's the first date, every time we come home. Yeah, that's it. Every time we come home. Rachel Weiss wants to know,

why do dogs like to eat grass when they have upset bellies? Or is that a myth? You know, we used to be, you know, they have tummy aches or they have this, but I've seen dogs that just like to eat grass. Just like to eat grass. Okay. A lot of times in the wild, a lot of these guys eat a lot of berries and grass and different things. So I think it's just a palliative tool.

And by palliative, they mean it makes the dogs feel better. So I guess the grass is always greener on the inside. Moe Casey wants to know, what is the number one thing we can do to protect the health and well-being of wild critters? And Brianna Mozinski says this, yes. Yeah, anything we can do for wild critters? I think the environment, protect the environment. Protect the environment, conservation, things like the US Fish and Wildlife

organization like that do to try to conserve different species. So those are the most important thing. I think a lot of times we can get in trouble too, by trying to domesticate everything. And I think we get in trouble then because it kind of mess up the natural balance of things. Veronica says, cat hairballs. Oh my God, they're so gross. Is there anything I can do or give the fur babies to prevent it

or lessen the amount that they hack up? Did I mention so gross? Yeah, there are different products that we have. Cats are naturally groomers. So they naturally lick themselves and groom themselves. And basically when you see the cat that is un-groomed or not thrifty-looking, it's probably sick kitty. So you have mats or hairball.

Now some of them get so large and heavy, they can't groom themselves. But normally they groom themselves and they're going to ingest hair. So they have products that you can give different laxatives and lubricants that you can give maybe a couple of times a week that will help clear the amount and pass them out in the stool rather than having so many hairballs. Okay. And what are those products, bud?

Laxatone, purge, mineral oil. I didn't know we were going to call products mineral oil. Okay, mineral oil. We got to give her some else. And then we'll tell her. I will say to her personally, be thankful because I'm going to give her a fancy word and she recommended to Google this. It's called a trochobrisor.

That is a big, big hairball. Oftentimes we see that in cows. In cows, I mean, sometimes these things can be big as basketballs. How do they get the hair in there? Because they lick in themselves. So she's very fortunate that she don't have a cow. Oh, maybe she does. Oh, maybe she does.

She got a trochobrisor. Heather Schaver has a question financially. In your opinion, how much is too much to spend on pets that build? How do you make the decisions taking into economics and animal suffering? And is it good to have pet health insurance? How do you guys feel about that? My thought when it comes to that is definitely if you can start out, pet health insurance has definitely evolved over time.

They has evolved over the years and we haven't practiced quite a bit now. And they usually pay for the well said, but you can't have any pre-existing things. But this is the thing I always ask, what will be the quality of life? Quality of life is everything. I mean, you know, before you get the finance, I have people who come in and they have unlimited funds and they willing to do anything. But I talk to them, at least give them the option.

I never tell them what to do, but I explain the quality of life and what will be the quality of life if they choose a procedure, if they choose not a procedure, if we keep moving on. Something you can ask your veterinarian, it's a tough decision. This next nephrological question was shared by Joni Waldrop, Morgan Alexander-Coburn and Samantha Jay-Gunther. A few people asked about preventing kidney disease and kitties and is adding water to their food a good idea or what else can people do?

A low protein. Yeah, you want to have water available all the time. Yes, okay. Low protein foods definitely help. Because proteins have to be broken down and a lot of times that puts more on the kidneys. So that's one of the things. That's why they have these specialized with less protein and ash. So, you know, diet is one big thing that we do see.

And I definitely see that angle that will come, because we see a lot of kidney disease in animals. And going back to technology, they have a new test with SDMHA. I know, you want to know what SMDA means. And I looked it up and it's symmetric dimethyl-argin... Symmetric dimethyl-arginine, SMDA. Which tells us before they even develop it now, right? It's really, it's really, I would say that test maybe come along about two years ago.

At the most. Which is just amazing, it's amazing technology where before we looked at creatinine and blood urenauticin, which tell us this animal is in kidney failure. But now, a totally healthy kidney. We can find out those things by just something called a SDMH test. It's pretty cheap. And it, you know, we recommend doing those as an early preventative.

Maybe at least after what, six? Yeah, five, six years ago. And then five, six years ago. And we don't know it before. And we can start making some, some different medical type changes to prevent it. So that will be the one thing, try to do some preventative tests. And a few people, including Lacey Elaine and Jennifer Lemon. Kim Bonaker, Katie Viles, Anna Elizabeth, Emily Jean, Demi Espinosa, Jessica Drew,

and Justin Dar, who wanted to know about grain free versus grain inclusive diets. Everyone seems to have an opinion. Nobody knows what to eat. How do you feel about it? Do we need to go down the road? Oh boy, I'll tell you, I'm asked this every day. Okay. So I'll tell you, I don't know the answer, but this, this is the thought though.

Because I've talked to actually the drug reps and, you know, there was a test. And, and there was a trial. And they were founded us, that a small sample did develop cardiovascular disease. Right, on grain free. On grain free, right? I spread that study. So there was a study. So, I mean, this is, there's been millions and millions of

dogs that have eaten this. And this was a small sample. Now I'm, I don't know. One thing I can say is a lot of times when different fats come out, we have fats for, I don't know if maybe they're not fats, but things that are for humans. We transition those things right over to the animal world. And we fashion them to make them look pretty. And we label things that are attractive to us.

They may not necessarily be good for your animal. May not make a difference. But because they're attracted to marketing, we grab it because they said it was good for us. Should be good for my animal. Okay. Well, then this is for all the people who are maybe ashamed to ask how you deal with a chunk and when to intervene if you're once a maciated rescue orphan becomes an absolute unit. She's like 12 pounds.

Maybe she's gotten to be about 13 and pounds. How much should I be walking a little dog a day? All right. When you say 13 pounds, is that a... What breed is she? Is that, right. Is that a Georgia 13 pounds? Well, you've got a little bit, you know, you've been eating some, some collard greens and a little bit of...

He definitely, I got her in July. She was a rescue and she was emaciated. And she's seven and she just, you could feel every bone. And now she's definitely not and... I can tell you one thing that an old veterinarian told me a long time ago is you can kill them with kindness. Yeah. A lot of issues come from being obese and overweight.

So just because you're telling me that you think it is, it is. Okay. Okay. Because... Definitely that's how it works. That's how it works. So, but you want to be careful because of joint issues, you know, being too heavy, not being mobile when we get older.

Diabetes. Diabetes is another big thing. So what you may want to do is maybe find a diet that's lower. Lower quark. Yeah. Or maybe even weight reduction. No, no. This is the number one question I ask.

The food probably is fine. What kind of treats are you getting? Oh, um, greenies. How many? Maybe like three a week. Not a lot. Not a lot. Okay.

But I think I need to... So this is what maybe we'll try. We both need to go off. We're going to use green, but we're going to say green beans. Okay. Yes, green beans is a good treat. Yeah, let's try green beans. Are you supposed to be able to feel a dog or cat's ribs?

Yeah, you don't want to see them. Okay. But you want to, when you, if I'm standing behind a dog or cat and I'm reaching on both sides, I want to feel them without having to press too hard. Okay. I should be able to feel them by rubbing. If I have to press a little bit, then we got a little bit too much fat there. Okay.

But I don't want to see them because we're too thin. Right. So that's a good way to judge where we are as far as scoring them body condition. So guess who got a treat of a green bean today and didn't hate it? That's right. My chunky little love muffin. My small monkey. My little smunk.

And what about the best thing about being a vet? What is something that just gives you butterfly skill? It gets you out of bed. The babies every day. Every day. And it's different. Like when I'm driving to work, I can be a dermatologist, a cardiologist. I own colleges, a surgeon, a pediatrician.

Who delivers the baby? I'm the mother of the obstetrician. Obstetrician. I may do a C-section, all before lunchtime. Yeah. So that's the best thing. Yeah. And I always say, you know, the veterinarian has a special job

because we can make everyone in the house happy. Because if you bring me your animal, your dog or cat, and it's not doing well, and I help you make it well, not only does a dog feel better, you feel better. Right. So we can make the whole house happy. There you go. Wow. Okay.

So we learned that becoming a veterinarian is super competitive, but doable. You need to know what normal behavior is for an animal before you can diagnose a problem. Sometimes your exotic pet might need a $20 light to fend off metabolic bone disease. Protecting the environment of wild critters is the best thing we can do to help them. Even cows get hairballs. Low protein foods can help extend the life of our pet's kidneys. And green beans might be a suitable treat for your doggo. So to learn more about Dr. Bernard Hodges and Dr. Terence Ferguson,

you can visit their website critterfixervet.com. Or individually, you can follow Dr. Hodges at Dr. Hodges underscore critterfixervet on Instagram. We'll also include links in the show notes to all this. To learn more about Dr. Bernard Hodges and Dr. Terence Ferguson, you can check the links in the show notes. We will have links to their Instagrams as well as their websites. And even a link to Dr. Ferguson's book, C is for Critter Fixer. So thank you, Dr. Bernard Hodges and Dr. Terence Ferguson.

And thank you to any new Smologites who are listening. New episodes will be out every other Sunday. We took a break for a little bit because not all of our advertising was kid-friendly, but it now is. So we're back. So Smology's episodes every other Sunday ads are also kidsafe. So links to the full episodes from which we cut down are all available on alleyward.com or in the show notes.

A full list of credits for this episode can be found there as well, since we like to keep things small around here. And if you listen to the end, you know, I give you a piece of advice. And this week's piece of advice is actually about dogs. So if you see a dog and you want to pet it, you should always ask the owner first, can I pet your dog? And then they'll let you know whether or not the dog is skittish, or maybe tends to nip it little hands.

So it's always good before you pet a dog. You don't know to ask the owner if that's okay. So now, now we know that, which is great to know. Okay. Until next time, Smologites. Bye-bye.