Ologies with Alie Ward - Vexillology (FLAGS) with E. Tory Laitila

Episode Date: September 3, 2019

Flags! How long have we flown them? Will you get arrested for stomping on one? Which ones are cute and which are fugly? Which colors don't we see on flags and why? How did all this flag etiquette originate? E. Tory Laitila, a textile expert who also handles Honolulu's flag protocol, gives the skinny on how to dispose of a flag, flags and conspiracy theories, history of the Pride flag, the oldest flags, which state flag needs a makeover the hardest, how to store flags, who designed our modern American flag and how you too can have ... fun with flags all year round. Also: pirate trivia.A donation went to: Connecting to Collections via CulturalHeritage.org Sponsor links: WithCove.com/ologies; barkbox.com/ologies; trueandco.com/ologies (code: Ologies); kiwi.com/ologiesMore links up at alieward.com/ologies/vexillologyBecome a patron of Ologies for as little as a buck a month: www.Patreon.com/ologiesOlogiesMerch.com has hats, shirts, pins, totes!Follow twitter.com/ologies or instagram.com/ologiesFollow twitter.com/AlieWard or instagram.com/AlieWardSound editing by Jarrett Sleeper of MindJam Media & Steven Ray MorrisTheme song by Nick ThorburnSupport the show: http://Patreon.com/ologies

Oh, hey, it's that guy from work who goes to amusement parks alone and has to convince people he's not a creep. He just likes admiring the art design. Ali Ward, back with another episode of Ologies, in which we let one expert let his freak flag fly, and by freak I mean flag, so we let his flag fly fly. This dude loves flags. I love him for it, but before we run this interview up the poll, let's thank a few folks, shall we?

Okay, yes. Thank you to all the patrons at patreon.com slash ologies, y'all make the show possible. It would not exist without you. I love your questions each week. Thank you to everyone buying ologies merch, like hats and shirts and totes, at ologiesmerch.com. To everyone who supports a show for $0 just by gabbing about it or using your finger on your phone to keep it in the top 10 science podcasts by rating it. Subscribing also helps, most of all, leaving a review, all of which get read by my tired

and sometimes teary eyes because y'all are so kind, such as, for example, Podcast Pretty, who says, this podcast is weird, and by weird I mean perfectly vulnerable and fascinating, and my new favorite podcast I've recommended to everyone. I am now making an effort to show up like I belong and try to have fun. Thanks, Ali. Thank you, Podcast Pretty, and everyone who leaves reviews. I do read them. I love them.

Thank you so much. Okay, vexillology. Aren't you glad that there's a parenthetical flags after that? Because who knows what vexillology means? Where does this word even come from? Okay, buckle up. Shit's about to get cute. So vexillology has its roots in Latin for little sail, vellum is a sail or a curtain,

and it's related to veil. So if you rip a flag, are you piercing the veil? Because that would be a disaster. This reference will only make sense if you listened to last week's Disasterology episode, and I'm just sorry. I'm sorry to everybody else. That was cheap, and I went for it. Okay, so the term vexillology, it was coined in 1959 by a flag enthusiast and designer

and political scholar, the late Whitney Smith Jr., and if you're like, damn it, I wish I were a vexillologist, but you're just a flag fan, don't worry, you're still a vexillillophile. Drop that on a first date. See how that's received. Okay, so this vexillol- vex- hmm, vexillologist, vexillologist came into my life one thing in Hawaii. I was on that Atlas Obscura trip with toothology guest, Squid Expert, and as of a few days ago, Dr. Sarah McEnulty, and I was about to get a behind-the-scenes tour of the Majestic

Bishop Museum on the island of Oahu, and wonderful persons, Hadley Anderson and Megan Ramsey, who are oligites and museum workers, met up with me. They hooked me up with a local flag expert, so we met the next day in my hotel. I rushed in straight from the beach with very bad hair and mascara on my face, and he was Natalie dressed in a vintage tiki suit, he had a fresh haircut, he was sipping some soda in the hotel bar, he handed me a miniature Hawaiian standard flag, we ducked into a room to chat flags, you're about to go through quite a journey hearing about everything from why flags exist, to if you can get arrested for stomping on one, to how to dispose of

a flag, to what flags have to do with conspiracy theories, to some pirate trivia, why Hawaii has a Union Jack on its flag, the hardest flags to draw, which colors we don't see on flags and why, which state flag needs a makeover the hardest, how to design a flag, how to store one, who designed our modern American flag, and how you too can have fun with flags all year round. So get ready to fly high with flag professional and vex silhouelogist, Tori Lytola. It's Lytola, L-A-I-T-I-L-A. Lytola?

Lytola. I want to make sure I say that right. You are a vexilologist. Yes, I am a vexilologist. Vexilologist. It's not an easy one to say. No, it's not. No, it's not.

But my day job is registrar, so I would consider myself an amateur vexilologist, but I do do it as part of my day job, so I do get called upon to answer quite a few flag questions during the week. What does a registrar do? I'm an arts registrar, so I manage the City and County of Honolulu's public art collection. So a registrar is the person in a museum who handles all the records and sometimes the physical objects. I handle a public art collection for the City and County of Honolulu.

So right now we have 1,117 works in the collection. As of today? As of today, yes. So Tori got his bachelor's in museum studies at the University of Manoa in Hawaii and spent 17 years as a registrar in Honolulu's mayor's office of culture and the arts. He was an expert in charge of public art collections and who flies, what flags, when. So starting in September, though, he'll be the curator of textiles and fashion at the Honolulu Museum of Art, which is very exciting for him.

The dude digs flags. He loves fabric. How did you get into it? I actually have a background in art history. Really? I have my degrees in art history, but my focus was costume. Really? I was going to say because you're very natally dressed.

You're very well dressed. You have lovely hair and an awesome printed blazer. Well I noticed you're a fan of vintage clothing, so I wore a tiki blazer today. Did you make this? Yes, I did. So side note, it's true that I have a collection of vintage dresses. Not only do they never go out of style, but just try to beat a $24 hand sewn thrift store gown that someone else farted in.

You can't. History is rich and I love it. So Tori's blazer, by the way, was a replica of a type of 1960s tropical Polynesian style sports jacket, which was unlined so you could wear it in the tropics and not schvitz too hard. But the originals tend to be made too small for this tall dude. So his work and passion for historical textiles involve not just flags, but clothes too. His career is like a rich tapestry and it also does involve tapestries.

And so you start dating, you can, ability to date clothes and their usage, who use them because there was a time where, you know, the appearance of a person would dictate maybe their economic class, occupation and other things. I like to say that clothing is the most intimate of artifacts. It tells you about a specific individual. And so does it make sense that you would also be interested in a fabric banner that says a lot about a country? Well, I did take a history of textiles class in college and that was never covered.

So on my final, I brought it up and that was my argument. We did not study these small pieces of cloth that have affected history and have caused people to die or give their life to over time. That wasn't. That was your final paper? Well, that was my final argument on the final for that class. What'd you get? What grade?

I passed. Nice. Was your teacher forced to write nice at the end? I think she reluctantly admitted that it wasn't covered in class. She's like, next year. Good point. All right. Fine.

She waved the white flag if you will. Yes. Lasting in textiles final, he argued that flags were hugely important. And they were like, guys got a point. As for the Tiki culture throwback, it spans at least a generation. So Tori's mother was from Guam, an island of Micronesia that's a U.S. territory. And side note has a very cute flag featuring a little blue background and what looks like a tiny portal of a tropical scene replete with a coconut tree and a canoe.

And it also has a border of red around it to symbolize the hardships that the islands endured. It's a pretty great flag. Anyway, Tori's mom from Guam moved to Ohio and worked in this famous tiki bar. Columbus's renowned hangout, the Kahiki Tiki Bar, until the family moved to Hawaii when he was a teeny baby. And Tori spent his summers between the Midwest and Guam. Honestly, Google the Guam flag.

It looks like a Girl Scout badge. It's very cute. You had kind of an interest in island culture and a background in island culture. I grew up in Hawaii. I was born in Columbus, Ohio, and my parents moved to Hawaii. I was maybe like six months old. And so you've lived in Hawaii most of your life. And when did you kind of want to get into the preservation of its art and artifacts?

Well, I've always liked things, stuff, and how they work and when it comes. And when I went to college and I saw, oh, art history, it's that. And so, you know, a little light bulb went off and said, well, I can like study history in the context of stuff. History in the context of items. And now tell me a little bit about what it takes to get to know flags. Where did you start? Did you start just perusing books?

So I read a lot as a child. I mean, I had an encyclopedia at home and I would read the encyclopedia and just pull off a volume and start reading. But my mother, for a short time, she was actually working at an import-export company so she would sell things to the shops in Waikiki. But she worked for a heraldry shop in Waikiki. What is that? So heraldry, well, a heraldry shop would be one where you would go in and they would look

up your name and then they'd find the code of arms for your name and you could buy stuff with that code of arms on it. There's a picture of my own code of arms, actually. So heraldry are code of arms. Oh, my God. They all have meaning. You know, the shield where the crest would have the code of arms and it would tell you something about that person, whether it was whether they came from England or France or

Germany, whether they were the second-born son or what families married. And so you kind of started with that. Was that your entree? Was that like a creaky door? Well, the heraldry leads to flags because a lot of flags use a similar language or are derived from that style of heraldry. Now what's the difference between a flag and a pennant? Oh, boy.

Howdy. Okay. Buckle up for some vexillological terminology. So a flag is usually a rectangular attached to one of its sides and can flutter in the wind. And a pennant is usually a streamer, either pointed, so triangular or maybe with a swallow tail. And the other item would be a gonfalon.

What? So a gonfalon would be a vertically hung pennant. So this is the first time I had ever heard the word gonfalon, but I looked it up and it's essentially a squarish flag or a seal, sometimes little tassels at the bottom and it's hung from a crossbar. It kind of seems like something you'd see at the head of a formal procession or like a mass. But also a gonfalon sounds a little too close to Kurt Vonnegut's grand faloon, which if

you ever read Kat's Cradle, you might remember is the term for people who feel united but are really only tethered together by an association that's utterly meaningless. Then I started to spiral down an existential rabbit hole about nationalism and what it means to live on a bordered planet, but also community and belonging is important. Then I had to just snap out of it. Snap out of it. Anyway, Tori has a ton of flags at home and I asked if they were kept in an orderly fashion. What's the best way to keep a flag?

Rolled. Rolled. Okay. Yes. Don't fold that thing unless it's specifically folded? Well, you can fold it and interestingly, not every country has guidelines for folding a flag. Okay.

So, in the US, we have where you'd fold the flag in quarters lengthwise and then you'd do a triangular fold. There's one in the Navy tradition because you can leave the flag folded, attach it to the how-yard and pull it up and it'll automatically unravel. Well. And so, the other common way which the UK will do sometimes, and I believe Japan does, where they fold it into quarters and then it's folded into thirds and then rolled up the last third and then tied with string.

And so, I know in UK tradition that you'll use a small piece of string, attach it to the how-yard and then when you pull it, when you give it a jerk, it'll break the string and the flag and furls. Too much fanfare and trumpetry, correct? Fanfare. Fanfare. This is a trumpetry. Not a word.

Okay. So, quick aside. Trumpetry is the blaring sound of trumpets and fanfare is a short and lively sounding of trumpets. So, I hereby give you permission to say a fanfare of trumpetry just to annoy anyone who's not a fan of redundancies. But not every country has flag protocols like the US. I always think of like how easy Japan has it when you're a kid and you have to draw

your flag. You're like, I got a dot in the middle, I'm good to go. And then Mexico's like, I got to draw a serpent and some kind of bird. Some flags are just geometric blocks and then others have these drawings on them that are difficult to replicate. Who decide what goes on a flag? So, it's usually the country or the head of state. Okay.

If you look a lot of older flags, they are just sometimes one, two, three colors, horizontal lines or vertical lines, stripes and that goes back to Heraldry where there was the king and he might have a coat of arms and it might have one or two colors. So, you replicate that on the flag. Oh. Okay. Quick aside about the Japanese flag. Also called the Hinomaru.

So, that big crimson dot is representing the sun because Japan is known as the land of the rising sun. And while their big signature red dot on a field of white has been used since the 1400s, it was designed formally in 1870. It wasn't legally adopted until 1999. That's like being engaged for 129 years. Everyone just assumes you're married, but really there's drama at home. So, folks opposed didn't like a certain shift toward post-war nationalism.

So adopting it officially was a big deal, but it's been 20 years since it's been the flag of Japan by law. Bonus, it's pretty easy to draw though. Why is this a bonus? According to the North American Vexillological Society's 2006 edict, Good Flag, Bad Flag. There are a few key principles to designing a good flag. The five principles are keep it simple. The flag should be so simple that a child can draw it from memory or an adult who's

bad at drawing. Two, use meaningful symbolism. Number three, use two or three basic colors. Number four, no lettering or seal. Never use writing of any kind or an organization's seal. Wow, that law is broken a lot. Number five, be distinctive or be related. So avoid duplicating other flags, but use some similarities to show connections.

Anyone who heard Roman Mar's spectacular 2015 TED Talk on city flags might be familiar with these flag fashion do's and don'ts, which make us all now qualified flag critics. Now, Mexico, I love you. Your flag, what the hell man? Growing up, trying to draw the flag of Mexico with this ordinate eagle eating a serpent while perched on a prickly pear. This was an exercise of childhood artistic humility or really for anyone without a studio art degree.

But I did some reading and knowing it's a symbol delivered by a God of war via a dream to an Aztec leader about where to settle. What's now Mexico City? I'm like, all right, yes, this flag is very badass and it's very beautiful and I love it. Mexico, please don't be offended if my rendition looks like a cat eating a noodle. Now, as we talked, I was holding the small version of the Hawaiian flag, this red, white and blue stripy number with a British flag where the US stars would be on a US flag.

What? What's happening here? And now, why do you think red, white, blue? Why are those colors so common or do I just think they're common because I'm holding a red, white and blue flag in the country that I was born in has those colors? Well, in the US, we refer to it as red, white and blue and Hawaii, it's white, red and blue. That's the order of precedence for the lines. Oh, wait, so when you say red, white and blue on an American flag, does that mean that the

red stripes on top? So the red, red and white and then blue is for the Union or the Canton, which is that field on the side. Oh, yeah. So there are parts of the flag. Yeah, give me, break me down some anatomy 101 on a flag. So flags are usually square or rectangular and the part that attaches to the hal yard, which is the rope that pulls it up and down, it's called the hoist.

The opposite side is called the fly. Yes. And usually the top is the top or the head and the bottom is the bottom. Is that where on the fly comes from? On the fly being ready to go. Yeah, I don't know. Like, oh, I'm on the fly. Like I'm on the, I don't know.

I'm gonna look it up. Okay, side note, on the fly is not a vexillological idiom. It comes from baseball, like a fly ball, and to recap, flag anatomy. So the field is the main area and the Canton is the picture in picture area. And these specific terms were necessary because in the oldie time of days, you couldn't just airdrop your design. You had to like scream it into a tin can connected to another tin can and then etch it via a spent matchstick on some birch bark and then let an owl grasp it in its talons to drop

off at the weaver. Now, we're in Hawaii, 50th star. Yes. Now, there wasn't a 49th star flag. Right. Cause it, Alaska and Hawaii at the same time. Because they don't change the US flag until July 4th of the following year. They don't?

Yes. Oh my gosh. So they were admitted at the same time. Within, within the 12 month span to get nice cause that would have been a little bit awkward. So there, I understand there are a few 49th star flags made, but they just delayed it and made 50, 50 stars. Now we have a 50 star flag. What about say Puerto Rico or Guam, let's say those become states in the future.

What would we do with a 51st? Could we put it anywhere? They would have to go back to design and they would figure out where, if they would change the arrangement of the field. Cause there were times throughout the US history where the arrangements of stars change. I mean, people are familiar with the Betsy Ross flag where they're in a circle. I mean, during the civil war, sometimes they were lined up. Sometimes they were arranged in circles with, you know, a few outlier stars.

Okay. Quick aside, is the Betsy Ross flag origin story flim flam? What's the deal? There's more on that in a bit, but a fun fact, some folks, but not all use the 13 star Betsy Ross flag as a throwback to pre abolition days, which is gross and scary. Some people, probably a slim minority. So let's continue the discussion about US territories and plunging a flag into them. Why aren't territories such as for example, Guam and Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands

and American Samoa States? So this is a discussion called the 51st state. And as of a 2017 referendum, 90% of voters in Puerto Rico chose statehood, although their voter turnout was pretty low. So it's hard to say how many people in Puerto Rico in general supported. So why are some US territories states and others aren't? Is this just simply a design issue? Heads up the 51st state debate probably is not a design issue.

In fact, as a high school student, a guy named Bob Heft heard that Alaska was set to become the 49th state and so a class project. He took his parents flag with 48 stars on it then and spent days arranging 50 stars on it. His teacher thought his project sucked, gave him a B minus. So Heft, looking for some extra credit, he petitioned Congress to accept it as the new 50 star design after Hawaii and Alaska became states. And it's been in rotation ever since.

Thanks, Heft. Heft says he has a 51 star flag ready, should the country keep expanding. So no, the 51st state debate probably is not just a design issue. Goes a little deeper than that. And now, do you think that there's any hold up in maybe adding more states because we feel too lazy to change the flag? Got room for one more. Well they could decide not to change the flag, but I would assume they would add stars for

any additional states. What are the most common colors in flags that you see? Red, white, and blue are pretty prevalent globally for flags. What do they mean? Well, they have varying degrees. So in the U.S. they do have a few poems and we can actually look up the Elks Lodge, has a really nice poem and describes the red, white, and blue of the flag beautifully, very poetically.

So I did find on usflag.org that the colors red, white, and blue did not have meanings for America when it was adopted on the flag in 1777. However, the colors of the Great Seal did have specific meanings. So Charles Thompson, Secretary of the Continental Congress, reporting to Congress on the seal, stated that white signifies purity and innocence, red hardiness and valor, and blue signifies vigilance, perseverance, and justice. It was on the seal and they were like, I just use it on the flag. Kind of like eating leftover pizza for breakfast, which is also very American.

So I looked all over for this Elks Lodge poem and I swear I could not find it, but I did find out that Idaho and Michigan both have Elks on their flags. Michigan has what appears to be an elk dancing with a moose over a banner that reads, Circumspice, which I just learned in Latin is kirkumspike, and it means, hey, look around you. So Michigan, look around you. Maybe you'll see an elk dancing with a moose. God, that'd be dope. Do you ever have people show you a picture of a flag and quiz you to see if you know

where it's from? They don't quiz me, but every once in a while we will run across flags somewhere with some group and their words is from and I have to look at it. I don't have all the flags memorized. It would be great. It'd be great trivia. In my daily work, my vexillological duties usually fall under what would be the job of the protocol officer.

And so that would be determining order of precedence of flags. Oh my God. We're very specific about it. There are approximately one million rules in terms of how to fly an American flag, but I will summarize. So the US flag always goes on the left when you're looking at it or on the tallest of the flag poles or on the top of the flag pole with the state and the city flag under it.

And you can't fly an advertising flag on the same pole as US flag. So if anyone's out there messing it up with their city flag and a banner for metamucil and the US flag all on one pole, whoo-hoo, that's a real mess. Now, so. You go from larger political entity to smaller political entity, but like the Olympics, when you have all the countries present, what order do you put them in? Right. So, Olympic Committee is usually alphabetical order of the language of the host country.

Oh. Okay. So when you see the processional flags, it's in the alphabetical order of the language of the host country. The language of the host country. Right. Okay. Where do these rules get stored?

Are they in a big, dusty book or do you have to check on a website that changes all the time? The big, dusty book is called the US flag code. Okay. How old is it? How thick is this book? Fortunately, the US government printing office does have a publication called our flag, which can be distributed and has pictures in it.

So you know how to put flags on display and you know if they're going to be crossed or if they go, if you put them across the north-south street, the unit has to be on the north side or if it crosses the, it details all these in the US flag code. Are you a person that likes etiquette because it's interesting and kind of vintage and like Emily Post style or do you begrudgingly acknowledge and adhere to etiquette? I do have a coffee at Emily Post at home and at work and at work I also keep LaTisha Baldridge as well. I don't know anything about LaTisha Baldridge.

So she was the protocol officer at the White House for over two decades. I will be very honest, protocol and etiquette freaks me out because there are so many tiny quiet ways to fail. So you either have to go all in and read Miss Manners or Emily Post or just screw it and always be the social equivalent of a rhino with diarrhea, which I sometimes fear I am. And how about your wife? Is she as much of a stickler for etiquette or do you kind of make sure that you guys send presents in the right amount of time and write thank you notes?

Are you guys different? We try, we try. Mm-hmm. Does she have kind of the same vibe? I'll say we try. Well we will refer to, well we will have morning discussions where it will be like we'll go to the OED or sometimes Emily Post does live next to the OED when we have our morning discussions over breakfast sometimes.

We'll have questions that come up and so we'll just read the dictionary or etiquette manual over breakfast conversation. Do you have a flagpole at your house? Before I was married I had a flagpole in my house and outside my house. Really? Now just one in the inside stay out all the time and outside you have to take down and put up every day? I have a light.

Okay. So I can leave the flag 24 hours. But I do not always fly the U.S. flag. Okay. So actually I very rarely fly the U.S. flag on my flagpole outdoors and where I used to live before it was near my door, you know how you have it on your front porch and I had neighbors and they would kind of get a kick out of it and sometimes they didn't figure out what it was so I'll fly a flag relating to the date.

It's October 3rd. Oh. Or a specific or significant event and so if they don't know they'll come over and say what's today or what's tomorrow? How many flags do you have? I don't know. So like a hundred or so. A hundred.

So you change them out? Yes. Like every couple of days? Because the mood is fit or weather because you can't have a storm flag which is usually a smaller flag you fly in the same pole so your big flag doesn't get as beat up. And so if it's stormy I won't fly a flag but I will have flags like you know for October 1st I'll fly the Bavarian flag. For royal holidays in Hawaii I do fly the royal standard and I do have some of the standards

of the monarchs and some of the princesses. There's Anzac Day or you know Canada Day or Australia Day I'll fly the appropriate flag. Oh. Anzac by the by stands for Australian and New Zealand Army Corps and it's the Australian version of Memorial Day but it's in April. And about a month later Australia also recognizes Aboriginal suffering with sorry day. I mean simple to the point and among the activities on sorry day is raising the Aboriginal flag which is a really beautiful design of a black top half representing the Aboriginal people

of Australia. A red bottom half for the earth and the ochre that they use in ceremonies and in the middle a yellow circle for the sun. Beautiful, simple, gorgeous. What about did you put out a pride flag at all or is that in the neighborhood? I am in receipt it's still in my office of a pride flag from San Francisco from the mayor. Oh my gosh.

So I have it, I haven't, it's a really nice flag because I will use to fly the economy flags at home. This is a nice flag so I have one I just haven't, it's a nice flag. So side note we recorded this in late June which was pride month and that led me down a rabbit hole to the history of the pride flag. It was designed by the late artist and activist Gilbert Baker before the 1978 Gay Freedom Day Parade in San Francisco and it initially had eight stripes and they each had specific meeting.

It had a hot pink stripe that stood for sex, red stood for life, orange, healing, yellow, sunlight, green, nature, turquoise, magic and art, indigo, serenity and violet spirit. That hot pink fabric was hard to come by in the 70s apparently and eventually the turquoise and the indigo were just blended into one royal blue stripe and Gilbert Baker was a huge part of shaping pride culture and he was also an activist with the drag nun group, the sisters of perpetual indulgence. His nickname, Busty Ross. So after you're done flippy flapping them around outside, do you have to iron them?

For breeze them? What's the protocol? And what about washing flags, how do you wash them? So you can get them dry cleaned. So flags nowadays are made out of typically nylon polyester cotton. Historically they were made out of wool or so, it's a much more hardy material. I kind of like polyester because you can get polyester that will have the texture of wool, it'll flow nicely in the breeze, nylon's a little stiffer and depending on the material

it's how long it'll last. And cotton can be nice but if cotton gets wet the colors do or can run. And isn't it, these colors don't run? So don't put a cotton flag outside in the rain. Okay, but maybe go for a polyester or nylon one. Correct. Or wool if you want to make it yourself. Can you get a wool flag?

It's very rare to get a wool flag. You can have one made so you can actually do like have a flag company make you a flag and they'll still be like hand stitched and there are companies that make flags in the US and there's still people in the factory that will hand sew the flag together. But you got to use some cedar chips or something because like what could be worse than having a moth eat your flag? Well you fold it up and you put in a case. How do you feel when someone drapes themselves in a flag for their album covers?

I'm thinking there's got to be like 10 different musicians who have done that. That's what bunting is for. What is bunting? So bunting are pieces of material in red and white stripes or sometimes with blue and white stars that are reminiscent of a flag but not a flag. What makes them different? They're different lengths. Well it's not the ratio of a flag with a field of red and white stripes and the union and

the crown. It's usually maybe a long piece of fabric that's just maybe two or three stripes of color and maybe stars on one end or not. That would be kind of like a costume flag. Or you can put it on your patio on the 4th of July or decorate your float or maybe your speakers podium. You decorate it with bunting. Now what are you going to do for 4th of July?

4th of July I will fly the Betsy Ross flag. Oh nice. And now I need to look up her story. Do you like her story? Is it worth telling or are you like it's apocryphal? Well you know there are theories on who or who came about with the flag and there is some evidence for that she did sew a flag and with the stars and the circle arrangement we'll acknowledge that as being the Betsy Ross design although there were other designs

at the time. Is there any truth to the fact that George Washington's wife would? So there's a story that's passed down through the Ross family that says you know there was a meeting and the generals got together and Betsy Ross was the wife of one of the generals and Washington was there, they did a little sketch and so she sewed the flag and so there is that story. Is that the truth? What do you think happened?

There were other flags that were flown by American patriots at the time and we from the morphs were filled with like the Bunker Hill flag or the Gadsden flag the Don't Tread on Me flag and so you have these other flags that were used during the American Revolution and the red and white or the stars and stripes that they came to be called you know really became the one that was accepted nationally. What do you think about the Don't Tread on Me flag? It's fine you know it's another flag that has its uses and some people have adopted it today to mean other things.

Right, Gadsden's flag, side note, is primarily mustard yellow and it features this impossibly coiled and I guess ready to strike rattlesnake with 13 rattles representing the original colonies that dates back to that time and it's sometimes used in modern day by conservative parties to harken back I guess to an era when the country was smaller and we didn't have indoor plumbing and like rattlesnakes were able to hover in the air like a broken mattress spring. Must have been a wild era but there are some mocking Don't Tread on Me memes that are just a source of priceless parody.

I suggest you Google these one of my favorites involves a cartoon baby snake that just says please no Steppy and another of a foot on the snake and the text below it I specifically requested the opposite of this and then there's one that retains the original Don't Tread on Me text but just the image of a single Lego. Anyway, changing up flags for fun. So do you have a calendar memorized or do you have a planner that has like hey change flag today? I try and write significant dates on my calendar.

That's smart. Do you check it every day? I still have a written calendar. Oh God me too. I'm very low tech. I have a wall calendar on my wallet home and a desk calendar on my desk at work and they're both handwritten notations so they have to have big squares so you can put things in them and I'll just go back and forth and check and there are a few historical calendars out

there that are really fun to look at you know they have like you know you know on this day in history and so you can you know add those to your calendars whichever seem significant or that you enjoy and put them on your calendar. If you're in the U.S. September's got a few flag worthy days. This episode will come out on Labor Day the evening of you can celebrate unions. September 11th the flags will be flown at half staff or half mast if you're on a boat. Constitution Day a.k.a. Nommology o'clock is September 17th there is National Prisoner of War and Missing in

Action Day September 19th and Native American Day is September 27th in California and Nevada but Indigenous People's Day is the second Monday of October nationwide. This led me to a website that sold flags CRWFlags.com they have all manner of banners including some with different dog breeds emblazoned on it wouldn't you know it that CRW flags themselves have a flag it's a red white and blue one and it says CRW Flags in brush script it's a choice it's an artistic choice. Do you have a favorite looking flag one that you're just like man I wish we had that one. Well one of my favorite flags it's hard to tell which one is your favorite because there's

a there's a flag I fly a lot at home but a really cool looking flag is Ohio. What really I'm sorry Ohio for doubting you okay tell me about it. It's a swallowtail pendant. Damn Ohio I had no idea you had what patent holding flag designer John Eisman describes as a quote triangular forked or swallowtailed flag corresponding to the shape generally known as a cavalry guidon or broad pendant so beloved is Ohio's flag it's even sold as a necklace so a patented pendant pendant if I may be a pendant pardon. That means it's pointy but then the end isn't a point it's got a swallowtail in it so it

can you can fly it upside down it still looks right side up but who else has a swallowtail pendant. No one how'd they get so fancy they got tux tails. Well it's all about the hills and the valleys and the rivers and of Ohio. Oh man and ever the rest of us all just have squares. No if you look at the flag code so there is a government specification on the ratio of the flag the height and the width and some states and other municipalities have different sizes so some flags are a little more square some are a little more rectangular but most

of us in practical usage will fly what's referred to as the NATO standard. Some standard sizes 3 by 5 4 by 6 but what's the smallest flag you want to know is it the size of like your thumbnail but be your pinky nail smaller is it the size of a crumb of banana bread. Oh you have no idea so I looked it up and according to the Guinness Book of World Records there exists a flag that is one one hundredth the width of a human hair it's only viewable with an electron microscope who made this what wizardry is this what is on the flag a maple leaf and it was made with UV photolithography on a wafer coated with electron sensitive

hydrogen cilciquiozane film by the Institute for Quantum Computing nanofab in Waterloo Ontario Canada. I'm pretty sure I said some of those words wrong please bear with me nanotechnologists Canadians this achievement is small but it is mighty. It's absurdly awesome and it makes the palm size Hawaiian flag Tori gave me just seems gargantuan in comparison and now okay tell me a little bit about the Hawaiian flag because what I know from being here this week is that there are great ways to make a statement with a flag that I didn't realize that you could do and so the Hawaiian flag how would you

describe it. The Hawaiian flag is rectangular the ratio is one to two okay it has a field of eight stripes with white red and blue alternating and a union jack in the canton how did they come up with this design. So it was during the reign of Kamehameha the first where Hawaii started trading and so ships needed ways to recognize themselves when they went to foreign ports and so when Hawaii started trading outside of Hawaii it needed a flag to be recognized and so they came up with the Hawaiian flag and it was drafted by a British officer.

Side note Kamehameha the great was a ruler who united the Hawaiian islands in the late 1700s and here's a fun tidbit his full name is. Another fun tidbit I did not say that Hawaiian born patron Iris McPherson did because I did not trust my mouth and brain and eyes to get it together on that. Anyway ruled through 1819 and this has nothing to do with anything but one of his wives took the throne after his death and among the things she changed was that women were finally allowed to eat bananas. It's bananas.

She was also Protestant there was a lot of badness with missionaries eventually the U.S. took control of the kingdom of Hawaii in 1893 in an overthrow that Congress has since admitted was illegal which is why just in general a Union Jack flag seems a little awkward. It's kind of like dating someone who still has their ex's name tattooed on their stomach and maybe that was a toxic relationship but also they never wanted to date you but you're forcing them illegally. Anyway everyone just shrugs like wow that's a lot of bad stuff.

It does hold the Union Jack because of the close alliance between Hawaii and Britain at the time. Now come hand me the first liked flags too so he would just fly whatever flag you like at his compound. Now what is flown most commonly in Hawaii? You see the Hawaiian flag. Now the Hawaiian flag as far as I know is the only flag that has flown unchanged for five different forms of government.

Why didn't they switch it up at all? I guess for continuity I mean it flew under an absolute monarchy a constitutional monarchy a republic a territory and a state and they did not change the flag. When it became a state the U.S. didn't say like okay real cute you got a Union Jack that air is over people. Well you know it was there under the territory and they just they kept the flag. I have heard a little bit about the way the flag is flown can express different viewpoints, sentiments, protestations perhaps.

Is it flown upside down right side what what does it mean? So when a flag or any flag is flown upside down or visibly upside down it's a sign of distress. A little help please. So it's usually like maybe sending out an SOS signal to somebody because there was a time where flags were our communication. So when a ship came into port and you're expecting something to be on that ship if you saw their flag at half mast, mast on a ship you knew somebody had passed away.

If it was flying upside down you know that that ship was in trouble or distress. Oh wow you'd have to know a little bit about the flag that you're looking at. Correct. Some flags they look the same right side right side up or upside down. Oh no what do you do? You're being trouble. Yeah and so what does it mean in the Hawaiian flag if it's flown upside down? Well that is a sign of distress and some people in Hawaii do fly upside down as a sign of

protest. I found it fascinating that that we were told by guides like oh you know if you look at the flag this way and I thought that it's a pretty powerful statement it's funny that the flag demands a certain kind of respect and that the people can talk back to authority by using the signal of the authority itself you know. So there is some protest I mean there has been a sovereignty movement in Hawaii and currently there is actually an anti-development movement in some locations of Hawaii and so they'll fly the flag upside down as a protest.

So inverting a flag has long been a statement by indigenous populations and a Lakota activist Russell Means once said an upside down flag is an international sign of distress. Now we the Indian nations are in distress. I will wear this flag upside down as long as my people are in distress. Tory says you can fly the Hawaiian Royal Standard flag upside down instead of the Hawaiian flag if say you're supporting the Hawaiian sovereignty movement or protesting the building of the 30 meter telescope on top of a sacred volcanic summit. Remember Tory is a gentle soul who respects etiquette but protests aren't necessarily

supposed to tiptoe around the feelings of the oppressors. Now if you're going to piss someone off of the flag you got to make it a real burn which reminds me. If you burn the flag will you get thrown in jail? So you can burn the flag on the First Amendment but you may also burn a flag to dispose of it. So there are a couple of ways of disposing a flag so when a flag is tattered or worn so it is a rectangle and when the ends fray you can you know hem it so you can get some

more life out of it but when it starts really falling apart the colors really fade you can cut it up so it's no longer a flag you know you cut out the canton so it's just the stripes and you just cut up into little pieces and you can throw it away because it's no longer a flag or you can ceremoniously burn it and so I know a lot of veterans groups and if you scout groups that will do it so if you have your you know you take your flag to your local flag shop they may be able to give it to somebody and it's usually folded and then placed on a fire. Oh I was thinking you just toss it in like an old bath towel but that makes more sense

that you would do it more ceremoniously. Because it is a national symbol so you treat it with signs of respect and even the touching the ground I mean okay if you're somewhere and a flag falls down and you didn't mean for that that's okay but you know you don't want to like drag the flag on the ground purposefully you know that's you want to take care of this national symbol because you have to remember time I mean we use the term flag but they're also known as standards or colors so when you were in a unit or you went to battle it's not like you had like you know you didn't go to their flags store and buy 20 flags no you had a flag you had your color guard who

would protect the colors along with the color bearer or the color sergeant and that was your rallying pointer nationals or your symbol of your unit or your nation so that was your one flag you didn't have lots of flags going around. Okay so side note back in the day wars would be won or lost based on the flag like if someone snatched your flag you lost a war hence the game capture the flag so if you're a person who's like let's just piece of fabric everyone just chill out I.e. me Allie Ward I guess you have to see it in the context of a bunch of dead people to whom these colorful table cloths meant they had new overlords.

And now what do you think of people who put American flags on their cars around 4th of July or after September 11th so how did you did you ever see that did you guys have that here? Yes why not why not do that more often? Yeah I'm wondering about that I mean this is side note super side note but around after September 11th I remember I did road trip and I happened to go to Las Vegas to meet up with some people from work aside the point I kept seeing these flags on the side of the road in tumbleweeds and so I started to pull over and get them because I thought it was

so interesting that they were just being shed from cars like this patriotism was kind of sloughing off. They fell off the car okay. And so I would see one up ahead I'd see the red in a bush or a tumbleweed and I'd I had a mead at the time and it's so dangerous and then I'd go out and I'd grab the flag and then I had a Sharpie and I would mark where I got it from in the date and then I would roll it up and and put it all together and I did it it's been it's been 18 years since September 11th and I think I have like 50 or 100 flags then they're all from all over

the country from just driving and being like oh there's one and I've missed so many because it would have been so dangerous. So it's like you're a Vexillologist. It's like I'm a Vexillologist and I want to put them up somewhere but it is interesting to me how they're different textures different amounts of tattered but I wondered how a Vexillologist felt about automotive ones if they're prone to falling off is that like yay you're flying it or oh no you're endangering it. I do like having a flag on a car and you know there are those devices that you can clip

to your window but there is also there's actually a protocol for attaching it to vehicles. Really what is it? So you don't see it too often anymore but there was the time where you actually had a post physically mounted to like the front bumper of your car and so it's very very secure and the flag would be on there and the flag is not just stapled to the it's actually well attached to the post and then so you could drive around with the flag on the vehicle. Almost like a presidential motorcade situation. Correct.

I feel like that's the only time I've seen one like that is like on a presidential limousine. And I have seen it on like flag officers. Switch gears from automotive flags to global ones. Guess how many countries are in the world? Before I googled this today I was like one thousand four million. I had no idea. There are a hundred and ninety five which means there are a hundred and nine country flags you can memorize to impress people.

My nephew did this. He was seven. We were all very impressed. Now what do you do if you don't have a brain as sharp as a seven year old? I bet that there are flashcards where you can flash a card and have to guess. There's got to be a there's got to be a parlor game. That was more common in the 19th century. You'd have like what remember cigarette cards and so you'd have a secret cards with flags

on them and just so you could carry these around and say oh I know what that flag looks like or I know what this flag looks like or it's back in the back in the day. I think there's got to be a parlor game. Did I look this up? Of course. Is there one? Of course. There's a board game you can play guessing the flappers of countries and the game captain

on YouTube provided a 25 minute video tutorial and a review. So the first clue says over 90% of the population are Albanians in this country which lies north of Macedonia. Is it Kosovo? Correct. So if you want to get good at flags get your mitts on flags in the world. I did notice that it's for people eight years and up and I'm sure that my seven year old nephew would kick all of our asses and just hand them back to us on a platter and we would

be impressed. Did you ever play flag football? I did play flag football. Were you like I'm only using American and Hawaiian flags? Well you have to remember when the term flag doesn't have to be these symbols it could also be utilitarian. You know like flag football, sprinkler flags, a checkered flag, you know they have other meanings and they're more utilitarian semaphore flags.

What about surrender flags? It's more of a utilitarian tool because it didn't stand for anybody if it's the white flag. Was that just someone taking gauze off and what? Could be anything. I mean you know if you have to surrender you use whatever you have. If someone take their underpants off I gotta wave something here. Can I ask you questions from listeners? Sure.

Okay but before we unfurl your questions a few words from sponsors of the show who make it possible to make a donation to a charity of each oligarchs choosing and this week Tori said he'll go with Connecting to Collections Care a program under the American Institute for Conservation that provides resources to those individuals and institutions working with collections and it helps smaller cultural institutions provide well-informed care for valuable collections. So it's supported by the Foundation for Advancement in Conservation which seeks to increase understanding of our global cultural heritage and that donation is made possible by the following

sponsors that I like very much. There'll be a link in the show notes to that non-profit and to the sponsors. Okay on to your flag inquiries. Okay. This is exciting. 105 questions about flags. People have been wanting this one for a while. Jack asked Isle of Man what's going on there?

I have no idea what he's talking about. Isle of Man I believe is the only flag with a triskel. It's a three extended device on a field of red. A three extended device? Like how you have a cross of before extensions, they actually have three extensions. I'm trying to remember if it's arms or legs. How did they get permission to do that? I believe it goes back to heraldry because those limbs are a heraldic device.

Oh my God. I was like, fuck is this flag? So I looked it up and the Isle of Man is an island right smack between Ireland and England just floating between them like an only child of a divorced couple. And according to our friend, Workerpedia, it is a self-governing British crown dependency. So its flag is red with three armored knight's legs smack in the middle just like a wheel of disembodied legs that have found each other and formed a new terrifying entity that loves jogging.

But just when you think that's weird, like a human centipede made of robo legs, you get a gander at Sicily's flag, which is the same leg configuration but naked and with a face in the middle that looks like if Barbie got stoned and went to Olive Garden. They also tossed in a pair of angel wings and some leafy dongs. You thought flags were boring, didn't you? Hell no. People light them on fire, they die for them, they have grassy looking dicks on them. So many of you wanted to know why they even exist.

Like for example, Taryn Fernandes, Jack, Steph, Julie Bear, Heather Dechal, Erica, Ellen, Vasekeel, Holly Andrews, Deli Dames and Jam Cruise, first time question asker, says, was there a specific moment when flags became a thing for every country? Well, that's a good question because I would say flags and its use, I mean, go back to like Babylonia and the Romans use them in different styles and different ways and penance and gonfalons as we use. But I think probably, and this is just my opinion, you know, with the United Nations, the League of Nations were the United Nations and then the Olympics is where you really

needed something to rally behind politically, not necessarily for military. So I think flags really became a more popular and more visible and it's at the Olympics where you actually saw duplication, like there would be times where the country would have almost the same flag, sometimes the same color and the same. And so what do you do with like, you know, you show up at the party with the same dress. What do you do? Same gown at the Oscars. You got to change it.

Now, is that your favorite part of the Olympics? Are you there for the open ceremony? I like the opening ceremonies. OK, mark your calendars for July 24th, 2020 opening ceremonies, Summer Olympics, Tokyo, Japan, Flag of Palooza. There will be a quiz. Hadley wants to know, did you love the fun with flags segment on the Big Bang Theory? It's called fun with flags.

I enjoyed it. Could have been expanded. And it, you know, we've been doing that for a while. So, yes, the fun with flags was enjoyable. Zayn Libra, Hadley. Oh, hi, Hadley. I know I was like, I just realized that was Hadley. Hadley works at the Bishop Museum in Hawaii, introduced me to Tori.

She is a peach. Now, the next topic was also on the minds of patrons, Megan King and Aviva Elizabeth. Zayn Libra wants to know, are there any vessels out there that still fly the black Jolly Roger flag? And why do they do it? What is it? OK, so there are there are different. So people think of the Jolly Roger as the one and I've actually seen a Molly Roger.

So it's actually a kind of nine tails and the skull has lipstick on it. Modern, modern designer came with the Molly Roger, but you have these pirate flags and they were slightly different. Like I think Edward Teach had a like a skeleton and a heart. And so they actually had meanings, but they were the black flag of the pirates and not to endorse piracy. But you know, there are those pirate ships that you can go on parties on. They do fly the pirate flag.

And why did they have that Jolly Roger? Was that just like a, oh, shit, we're here and we're going to mess your stuff up. So watch out, everyone. Well, that was that was the way that ships communicated with each other. And so sometimes a ship would fly a false flag to getting close. Oh, and then when they attacked and they would fly up whatever flag that they're flying under. So privateers, remember, privateers were the legal pirates and then you had pirates.

Oh, I didn't know that privateers were legal pirates. So a pirate would be raiding other ships. And a privateer was somebody raiding for their country under they were sanctioned. Oh, so then they were just thieves. And then they were like, I'm thieves for my country. Privateers. So what do you think of false flag conspiracy theories? False flag conspiracy theories.

Oh, I'll put it aside here. Some people think that some tragedies are inside jobs. Like, for example, the fleshy embodiment of human conflict. Infra-Wars host Alex Jones for a long time denied that mass shootings such as Sandy Hook were real, saying it was, quote, a giant hoax. Now, he has since admitted in a deposition that those assertions were, quote, a form of psychosis where I basically thought everything was staged, even though I'm learning a lot of things aren't staged, quote.

Now, the term false flags comes from pirate ships flying other countries flags during attacks, not misled their victims in terms of like, who's to blame for this? But pirates and conspiracy theorists aside, some false flags apparently have totally existed. The conflict that led us into the Vietnam War, the Gulf of Tonkin conflict in the mid sixties that was used to justify the US involvement in the Vietnam War, turns out part of that attack on US naval ships was an outright fabrication. Now, a less super serious issue, how ugly are city flags?

Again, Roman Marstead talk, illuminating as hell. It made me look up the L.A. city flag, which features these zigzag bands of color. There's green, gold and red with the city seal just plunked right in the middle. Now, in a 2015 Time Out article titled, quote, we need to talk about the Los Angeles city flag. This flag was described as a Rostafarian clip art nightmare. Can we switch it up?

I wondered, can a city built on a culture of before and after photos change its flag? I am not the only concerned citizen with this question, as patrons, including Sarah Terry, Jessica Frizz, Ezra, Caroline Schmeichen, Dorian Gray, Megan McLean, Christopher Rojo, Liana, Ira Gray and Todd Peterson all wanted to know. Schmini Smith wants to know how best should folks go about trying to update a bad city flag? Are grassroots movements like the People's Flag of Milwaukee common? Well, I actually have a listing of American city flags.

And there was a TED talk a while ago, and I got a few flag queries about my city flag for my work. And I have to say there are a few cities that actually have changed their flags. Really? Yes. And so I have, I have heard of, I believe Sacramento was one that with the last few years where they actually changed the city flag and they have a contest. And surprisingly, there are a lot of contests that go back to these flags, even, you know, for a hundred or so years to have contests to submit designs.

And then they get reviewed and approved. And so, yes, you could go about changing your city flag or municipality or locality if they some, some of them don't have any. So you could propose one. And, you know, I say you go before your local council or committee and propose a flag. Make some noise. Yeah. Like the Honolulu flag is one of those that was considered not so nice because they just took the city seal and they took it on a field of yellow.

But specifically it's Elima yellow because it's this island flower. But, you know, you could do something else like use maybe some heraldic device or if there's there's a landmark or a bird or a flower and incorporate that into your flag. And I have to agree with some of the people on TED talks. It's like, if you're going to put text on your flag, it's probably not a great flag. Oh, good. Good call. You know, you should be able to say it in imagery, perhaps. Right. The iconography of iconography.

There was a show called Community and they had a flag made for their school. But it looked like an asterisk, but it wasn't well received. I've heard of the show. Yes. No. Yeah. It features a large pink asterisk. Looks like a birdhole. This is classic Greendale. That place deserves an anus flag.

Natalie Cruz Aguayo asks, how do you feel about the current kneeling versus standing for the flag debate in the US? And how do you personally believe that flag should be respected? I believe the flag should be respected because it is our net. The US flag is our national symbol. So we should respect it. If you're in the military, you render honors or salute. I try and stand whenever it is and you should face either the flag

or where the music is coming from. The civilian salute is to hand over your heart or take off your hat. But I think a respect should be given to the flag. It is our national symbol. So there are other ways of expressing other actions, at least for our national symbol, we all should stand behind. Different people have different views on this. In America, some people feel that the flag has been kind of reappropriated

as a symbol of nationalism and a nostalgia for a time when people had fewer personal freedoms. So I think to use it to amplify the voices of people seeking the freedom this nation was founded on is a respectful means to an end. You may disagree. That's OK, too. Anyway, I changed the subject to hands over hearts, specifically mine. I have I got my hands stuck in an escalator when I was four and I have terrible scars on my right hand and it's fine now.

But at the time I was like pretty stoked that I was like, I always knew which hand to put over my heart because I was like four. So I was like, which one do I put? And I was like, yeah, it's the one with the scars. And so then I could always tell my hands apart. It was I wouldn't recommend getting your hands stuck in an escalator, though. There are better ways of figuring it out. Let me see.

Oh, Ashley Herbal has a great question. With space exploration expanding, should we have an official earth flag to represent ourselves when we find other life? There are earth flags out there. What are they? There are actually several. There hasn't been one that's been approved or recognized by everyone. You know, there are like city flags.

And then there's like you have the Earth Day flag, which has the picture of the earth on it. There's another one I like, which is actually developed in the U.S. where you actually just have an arc of yellow that represents the sun. And then like little dots for the planets and then the large one that represents the earth. And so there are other science flags out there. Some of them are geometric patterns with different colors

to represent the arrangement of earth and the solar system. But no, there are planetary flags out there already. Now, do you fly them on Earth Day? Do you fly an Earth Day flag? So I have I have one of these science earth flags, and I will fly it on days related to science. Really? Like what are their science days?

Are they? Oh, I'm trying to remember. There was a there was a walk for science. I think I think maybe I had Madame Curie's birthday or maybe when the Nobel Awards go out or maybe when the Voyager probe anniversary or something like that. I'd fly that flag. Man, I'm just going to start having to get flags now.

Did you know that National Moth Week is the last week of July? Because now you do. I just went to see if there are any moth themed flags out there. And sadly, no, but it does seem the perfect time to fly a woolen flag that's been moth eaten, a moth buffet of freedom and fibers. Meredith only wants to know, is there any significance in countries that have flags of the similar patterns and same colors, but in different order, like France versus Paraguay, Belgium versus Germany, et cetera?

Well, you have a lot of those, we could say old world flags where they really are established and based on national colors. So they're very, very simple. And so those are older flags, as opposed to some of the modern flags where you have a little more iconography on or modern iconography. So you have like, like the Scandinavian cross, like really all the countries of Scandinavia, it's that same cross pattern in different colors. So I know, why do so many Scandinavian countries have that Nordic cross motif?

I was like, hmm, there's going to be some old good Viking shit, like maybe where the land intersects with the sea or like the latitude of the summer sun. But no, it's just a straight up Christianity symbol. So what about flags that look like Neapolitan ice cream? You know, it's like the tricolor, you have the French tricolor. I mean, you have, you know, Ireland and Italy. It's basically using national colors just on a flag. Oh, OK.

So it's just kind of like, hey, we're cousins a little bit. Or the flags are old enough. We just needed, we just needed a couple of colors on it back then. Back in the day, we just needed one or two colors on the flag. And it was just one color or two colors. Vendetta wants to know if you have a least favorite US state flag. At least favorite US state flag. Well, there are a few that are just fields of blue with with the

coat of arms of the state on it and and the date. And you know, they they're they're not as engaging as some of the more colorful ones with with hidden iconography. I wasn't going to look this up, but I did on a whim. Holy shit. Look up all the state flags in the United States. So many are a seal on a field of blue. Like take a page out of Ohio's book.

Make something weird or Oregon. Oregon has a front and back. There's a cartoon beaver chilling on a log on the back. Just like New Mexico, a bright golden yellow with a red sun motif to honor Pueblo roots. Hell yeah. Maryland's flag looks like a jumble of wallpaper swatches or a magic eye poster. But I respect the daring of it. Those are all dues.

A don't I'm looking at you, Mississippi, with a Confederate flag in your canton. So Mississippi's flag dating back to 1894. Some have called state sanctioned hate speech and it continues to fly. There's a Mississippi born artist, though, named Laurence Dennis, and she's proposed a new design. It's cleaner visually, emotionally, but numerous bills to make it the new Mississippi State flag of failed Mississippi. Can you do me a solid? Get this shit together.

It's 2019. Be Wilson says, so I recently found out that pledging allegiance to a flag is sort of an American thing. And as a kid, I always felt really weird doing it. And now I feel like a lot of other people do too. So I don't feel so weird. Essentially, in terms of flag history, especially globally, are there any other countries that pledge allegiance to a flag?

Oh, that's a good question. I do know other national anthems, some with words, some without words, some a little more long, some a little short. I'm not familiar with other pledges. PS, you know the under God part that was added much later. You can thank President Dwight Eisenhower. Who just wanted to toss it in because he thought it would freak out communists. That's a fun thing to talk about at dinner with your new girlfriend's parents.

Get into it. A few people asked, where's the purple? Those people's names I will now say with my mouth. They are Jack, Helen Rousset and Samantha E. Where why aren't there more? Why is there a lack of purple? Ask Samantha E. And in flags, well, remember purple was the royal color.

And so how many monarchies do we have or run of the country? So it still would be a symbol of royalty? Yes, you go to a red fair and you're wearing purple. The queen might pick on you. Really? Yes. Because you should not be wearing that purple. Oh, my God, good to know.

It's purple's the royal color. I don't want to get hazed by a red fair queen. Yeah. That sounds like a nightmare. She might have your head on a stick or throw Pepsi on you. Not to get your turkey leg. I know. Quick aside, why was purple such a royal color?

Well, because it was expensive as hell. It was gathered from mollusks' shells. So Queen Elizabeth I wouldn't even allow non-royals to wear it. Now, one flag that's purple is the Native American and First Nation Iroquois Confederacy, and it features a string of four boxes with a tree in the middle, and it's flown to represent unity with other tribes. Now, why is it purple? Also mollusks.

It's based off a wampum belt made from shell beads. Now, Vexilology, Malacology, all up in each other's history. Concology is the study of shells. Should I do it? Shell, yeah. Also, side note, Iroquois is a name given to the tribe by colonists, but they call themselves the Haudenosaunee, which is a way more beautiful word. Now, this next question is about a flag that looks like two triangle

pennants on top of each other, just like gives no fucks about being a rectangle and instead represented mountains and later two prominent religions in the region. A bunch of people asked about it, including first-time question asker Kelty Slaney, Liv Schaefer, Todd Peterson, Sean McGregor, and Graham Tattersall. Zillard Glilie wants to know, why is Nepal's flag so cool? That is a cool flag. What's the deal? So, basically, it looks like a dagger to triangles.

It's very, very tall or long. So, it's not square. Okay. And so, you know, that is a country where you have prayer flags or pennants being flying, and so it's very similar to something you may have had previously before, what's known as modern flags. So, I opine that it could be an adaptation of that. Nathan Andrew Lea-Flight asked a question.

I feel like a lot of people probably have this question. Aviva Elizabeth also asked it, are there official guidelines for when to fly flags at half-mast and who is empowered to make that decision? Yes. So, there are guidelines, it's in the flag code, and there are specific days that you fly a flag at half-mast, like Memorial Day, and then to fly a flag at half-mast or half-staff, some master ships and staffs are on ground, have to come from executive order of the president.

And so, that would dictate all U.S. flags in the country. And subsequently, that would be state flags, municipality flags, because the American flag is always the highest. How long are they supposed to stay down? That depends on the executive order. So, the executive order that goes out would go for the time period. So, usually a day or a weekend or a week.

But for sitting politicians, I'd have to double check this. But I think if a president dies in office, flags are at half-mast for 30 days. Wow, 30 days. And then it goes down from there. Oh, that's if a president dies in office. Correct. What if the country's not sad about it? I'm just kidding, it's a joke.

Just kidding. But I could check the flag code, I did bring it with me. I kid, I kid. We all know that vice presidents are scarier, anyway. Deli Dames wants to know, what's the oldest flag that you know of? The oldest flag I know of. Well, there are in existence. I don't know what an existence, but I do know that, you know, in Babylonia,

they would have standards, polls, and they would have tablets on them. And then later on, the Roman legions would have a staff and it may have streamers, but it have devices. So like how we have the eagle on top of the flagpole, they may have an eagle or another bird or some other symbol that denoted that unit or that leader. The oldest flag in existence, I don't know what the oldest flag in existence is right now, but flags do go back millennia. Dang.

Hello, Scotland. Your flag was established in the literal Dark Ages, 1832, to be exact. It's just a blue field with a big white X representing the crucified Saint Andrew. It's cheery. P. Descunera wants to know, who invented semi-four codes? How is that done? Do you know anything about semaphores? You know, I learned semi-four in Boy Scouts.

Oh, you did? Yes. So besides besides the Heraldie shop that my mom worked at, I was in the Boy Scouts and I was in the Civil Air Patrol and I did enjoy being on Color Guard Detail. So I don't know how far back Semaphore goes. I'm going to I know they were very popular in the early 20th century. A semaphore, side note, is when someone holds two flags, moves them around to different positions to make different letters to spell out words.

So just think, you could destroy someone by signaling an F in a U or you could make their day by adding an N. Fun, fun with flags. And it's almost like reading a clock. And so depending on where the hands are, notate what the letter is. Is it like texting but with your arms? Yes. And do you use like short codes or do you spell out everything? You would spell out words or clipped words.

Sometimes you'd clip out, you know, maybe a vowel or so. But so you'd cross the flags to start a sentence or a word and then you'd spell out the word or use a number sign and then you'd wave the flags to end it. It's kind of like Morse code. Yeah. Oh my gosh, was it hard to learn? How long did it take you? I don't remember. It was a while ago. But I still have this semaphore set in my flag collection though.

Do you think if someone tried to semaphore you a message, you would be able to decode it? I'd probably only get SOS. Well, that's the most important one. It doesn't look like an SOS. Do flag nerds know each other? I know there's two others on the island. We do know each other. One actually owns a flag shop and the other one is a professor at a local university.

Did you ever think that you could do this for part of your job? No. No? No. Now, what is something about flags that's annoying? Or what is a part of your job dealing with flags that sucks? I get a lot of the repetitive questions. So it's like, okay, we have two or three flags.

Where do they go? It's like, it's okay, the American flag is always on its right. The viewer's left. It goes on its right. It's just some of these very, very basic things people ask me and I do get upset when I do see flag polls getting used for holding up banners or other signs. You're like, get that windsock out of here. What is this fish windsock on the flagpole?

I don't want to see the banner promoting the festival on the weekend. Put it on the side or something. Don't put it on the flagpole. Now, what is the thing that you love the most about your job or your life as an exologist or about flags? It's just a bit of history and to recognize what's in the past and use some kind of visible symbol to recognize those dates. And I have a good job, I think.

Do you think you have an old soul or were you born in the wrong era? Because you seem to have such a nod and a flair for things vintage. Do you ever feel like maybe you're a ghost that was born into modern times? That has been said of me. I've been working in the museum field over 25 years now. So I did work at one site where we did living history. And so, yes, I am not a stranger to living history or period clothing, particularly the 19th century.

And I do enjoy a good period history event. And it is a more gentler time with etiquette and protocol. Do you think in the future we're just going to use space holograms for flags? I don't know about holograms, but how retro is becoming more popular? Maybe we're going to go, maybe we'll regress a little bit. I love that you're keeping the past alive by continuing to make it cool because you're cool. Thank you so much for doing this. I loved this.

So ask well-dressed and informed people stupid questions because there's weird trivia flying right over our heads all the time. You might as well ask about it. We're all going to die. Go for it. Ask questions. Now, for more info on flags, navva.org, navva.org is a great resource. You can find a local vexillogical club.

Let your nerd flag fly. We are at Allergies on Twitter and Instagram. I'm Ali Ward with 1L on both. Links to all of that plus the cause of the week. And sponsors are always in the show notes. Allergies Merch is available at allergiesmerch.com, including some new stickers. Hot damn.

Yes, we have stickers. Thank you, Bonnie Dutch and Shannon Feltas for managing that. Thanks to Aaron Talbert and Hannah Lippo for admitting the wonderful Allergies Facebook group. Hello to the Allergies podcast subredditors out there too. Thank you, Assistant Editor Jared Slipper of the Mental Health Podcast, My Good Bad Brain. And of course, the jolliest of the Rogers, Stephen Ray Morris,

for Betsy Rossing All the Pieces Together each week. Stephen also hosts The Purrcast about kitties and C-Jurassic Right about dinos, both wonderful podcasts. Nick Thorburn wrote and performed the theme music, He's in the Band Islands, which is a very good band. Now, if you stick around to the end of the episode, you know, I tell you secrets.

And this week's secret is that this episode was so hard to make. There's so much political history and colonist bullshit and painful stuff when it comes to something that seems just as simple as flags. And so thanks for waiting an extra week for this. I'm recording this actually on the morning of my parents' 50th anniversary. We're gonna go celebrate it.

And I'm down in there downstairs, recording it really quick to send to Stephen. And then I'm taking the rest of the weekend off to celebrate with him. And the other secret I will tell you is that I moved into a new house about four months ago and I have not yet bought a garbage can. I've just been hanging a garbage bag from a cabinet knob

for four months. I keep meaning to go to bed, bath and beyond and just blow through the stack of coupons I've been hoarding. So I swear I will do that this week, probably. Also, y'all, I feel like I've told you this, but those bed, bath, and beyond coupons, they don't really expire. So just take yours out of your neighbor's trash.

Put them in your glove compartment. That way you're like, oh, I gotta stop there. Use them whenever you want. 20% off, you guys. I'm here to help. Okay, next week, a chemistry episode that draws on the spells of Harry Potter. Potterology is up next week.

Are you ready for it? Probably not. It's good to roll. Okay, bye-bye. Hack-a-dermatology. And today we are going to review and show you how to play Flags of the World.