Omnichannel - How to Build a Brand Without Performing a Persona? w/ Parmees Yaz & Dominika Legrand

Episode Date: May 16, 2026

Send us Fan MailLearn more about Parmees's work here: https://stan.store/parmeesLearn more about the "Expressed" program here: https://www.dominikalegrand.com/expressed-programWe often hear opposing advice when it comes to building an online presence.Be perceived as an authority so people trust and buy from you.Be real but not unfiltered.Show you are human, but leave some aura of mystery.Show your vulnerable sides but not theatrically.Lead with helpful information, but not too much, because people won't be able to connect to who you are.What do the brands we trust and follow have in common?Why do some people have such a presence that draws us in, even imperfectly?These are the questions we discuss with Parmeez Yaz, brand expert.Learn More about the Human to Human programs here: https://www.dominikalegrand.com/programs-1

Because the more I worked with clients, the more experience I got, the more confident I got in my ability to get people results, I was leading with that. And a lot of the brand that I built was built off of my results and expertise and testimonials and what people said about my work. And that was really good because it allowed me to hide, actually, for a long time. That's performative. That is still manipulating, like you said, an audience trying to get them to connect with you. And it oftentimes has the sheer opposite effect, not because, you know, people are malicious or they pity you, but because they can feel the inauthenticity in it. First of all, I'm happy to see you because I feel like we talk all the time and we send each other podcast messages back and forth. And it's just good to see your face.

Like, can I just acknowledge that for a second? I know. We're only visually available to each other when we do these calls. Otherwise, it's like 17-minute voice messages as I'm walking, listening to you, sending them very passionately. So, yes, this is very nice. Isn't that crazy, though, like how we can maintain an entire friendship based on voice message and literally never see each other face-to-face? That's a very female thing as well. But it's good to see you sometimes.

Yeah, you too. Sometimes, yeah. Our annual check-in on your podcast, that's nice. That's enough, right? Exactly. It's perfectly enough. Okay, so, pardon me, I wanted to invite you for this discussion today because we do all these back and forths all the time on WhatsApp, and I just wanted to kind of think out loud

with you. And I do have a topic of conversation that we can cover today, and that is, obviously, you are the brand expert here, so that's why you're selected for this conversation. But the conversation topic I wanted to cover. with you today is how is it that some brands, even though they are very informative and super relevant and even interesting, but we don't feel connected to them at all, like to who they are as a person.

And I wanna start with my personal story on that and we can start and riff on that. But I think I told you this on WhatsApp voice message, but the other evening I was listening to this YouTube video on time dilation. And the whole video is so interesting. I learned so much about time and how it's relative and sometimes it's faster and why and even certain parts of the earth. It goes faster. I was so fascinated and I fell asleep on that and the guy was super interesting. But there was no part of me that went, I wonder who this person is and I want to follow

them. I want to be friends with them. That didn't work for me. Like the video, you could argue that was super interesting. I learned so much, but there was no part of me that wanted to connect. Why do you think that is? Okay, there's a couple. There's a couple of things that I want to get into, and I almost feel like there's like multiple buckets of why this, why this happens. So number one, obviously we are living in an era where, and we have been living in an era for the past decade, where we are inundated with information. We are inundated with people telling us things and novelty and even with the emergence of short form content on social media like we are consistently taking in information and our brains as you know are trying to make sense

of the information in terms of is this relevant to me does it does this apply to my life is this something i can do something with and a lot of times when it comes to diving into topics of interest those topics have to be something that are either novel or necessary in our life in order for us to integrate it and say, oh, wow, like this is something or someone I want to pay attention to or this is a topic that I want to go deeper into because it either stimulates me in some way or it adds to my skill set, my repertoire, so on and so forth. And with that being said, because of the way that the market has evolved and how information digestion has evolved, we are, because of, becoming a little bit blind to just information or people or, you know, brands, figures, you know, public speakers, whatever, that are simply speaking at us with information that is only appeasing the cognitive layer of our brain, meaning it is it is only appeasing, I shouldn't say cognitive because technically all of it is cognitive, but only appeasing the logical part

of our brain where we are learning something new and we're. We are making sense of whether that piece of information is interesting or relevant or is something that we learn or it's something that we can apply. Now, that might work when you're in that passive state of knowledge gathering, but especially for brands, because that's kind of why both of us are here and those are the types of people that we work with and that we talk to. When it comes to branding and when it comes to being able to stand out with the information that you are sharing and being remembered for that information. If you are only speaking to people at that logical level of just sharing novelty and what's necessary, you are not going to be remembered because the brain centers for remembrance also need to be emotionally stimulated in order for that person to stand out, in order for you to have that sense of curiosity around, oh, this person just shared something interesting. I'm curious where he came up with this. I'm curious, you know, what got him into this line of work. I'm curious more about, maybe his research or his work, or I'm curious about him as an individual. There needs to be an element of resonance and of intimacy that is built with your audience as well, so that you don't just become a vehicle for sharing knowledge,

kind of like a David Attenborough that's just narrating, you know, National Geographic. You're not going to become one of those, but you actually become a person who is interesting. It's no longer the idea that you are sharing that people want to know more about. it's how you came to that idea. It's the person behind the idea. It's the insight and the lived experience and the perspective that you have to share on that thing. So when people position themselves as solely a vehicle to share information or share wisdom, they might share interesting things and we might be interested in the topic, but we're not interested in the person behind the topic, which I believe in branding today needs to be incorporated in how you communicate. Yeah, I love all of that. And I think I

chat is with you behind the scenes, but one of my favorite speakers, this guy, and I love him so much, not just because I learned so much, not just because I feel emotions, because I do feel emotions. You just said the layer in which, you know, the more logical layer, that's where most content lives and then you have to feel emotions in order to start connecting. You could argue that I do feel emotions in the speech. But to me, particularly what stood out was the fact that when he's presenting, he is very human. You know, someone is sneezing in the audience. He goes, oh, my God, that sounded better.

Are you okay? Like, those lines, or even he's walking up and down, jumping from the stage. And he's like, oh, there's a perfectly working stairs there. Sorry, guys. And that to be part of the story. Or when he says, oh, gee, where was I going with this? Oh, never mind. So those human moments, they make me like the person, not so much as emotions. Like, yeah, you could, yes, I feel emotions. Yes, it's not just cognitive. But there has to be another element to me that is this is a human being just like me. And we can kind of step out of that role a little bit and show that side of us more. Exactly. And I think connecting and emotions, oftentimes we think that we need to like make our audience cry or share a personal story or, you know, do something that makes them feel like the depth of our pain or our anger. And that's not

always the case. I think resonance is this sense of relatability where, like you said, he just simply is humanizing himself on stage. He's humanizing the way that he's sharing his stories or his knowledge because you can see the micro flaws in the delivery of losing his train of thought or, you know, stepping on something and just being like oops or or, you know, someone sneezing in the audience and acknowledging that that is when in those moments you're taken out of that like just logical oh this is a human that is transmuting information and I'm just taking information from him to seeing oh this is a this is a human this is a person and he's not perfect in the delivery it's not perfectly polished it's not like you're getting a a transmission that that is

scripted right and so you start to feel that human essence behind the brand and you can see and And this is something I want to get into a little bit later. I think it's the comfort that he has in himself that creates that connection because he's not there putting on a performance. And you can argue that anyone's speaking or anyone posting content or anyone relaying information to a certain degree is a performance. This right now is a performance. Me speaking in this way is technically a performance. But I'm not performing. I'm not putting together an image to make you feel that I know what I'm talking about or make you

believe me more or make you like me more. I'm simply being myself. And I might lose my train of thought. I might throw in a joke here and there. But it's because I have that level of comfort in myself that I don't need to be perceived in a certain way. So because of that sense of safety I have within myself, my audience, or let's say in this case, you, you feel more connected to me. Just like how you feel more connected to him on stage. Because you can see that he's fully owning his humanness. He's not performing to win your, you know, win your affections over. I love that. And I think that's very important. Two things I came to mind. The first one is this concept in sales.

One of the guests I had on my podcast, he said, if they cry, they buy. And I was like, okay, that's an interesting way to think about it. But then it becomes inauthentic because you're manipulating feelings. You're trying to elicit emotions because you think that's what gets them to buy. And I think that you are in total misalignment with what this whole thing is about, right? because you can also say, well, you know, if we show human sides, people will trust us more and therefore they are going to get more connected. Let me intentionally mess up and let me drop,

you know, that sneeze line in my audience. Like, do you see how people can get twisted with this? Because it's not about how I make it look like so that people connect to me. It's like, you just are and you let people see you in who you are. And you're trying to, you know, stop managing perception or, you know, try to be getting them to feel something or getting them to buy or getting them to do whatever, you just are. And I feel like that's a different frequency than, oh, how do I, if so, if I make mistakes that shows that, you know, really I am a human. You see, I'm a human. And in case you missed that, I'll tell you, I'm a human too. You know, I'm just going to remind you every now and then. I'm going to write a post about it. I'm human

too. Like, that's, to me, is inauthentic in its own. 100%. 100%. It's funny because I know we've talked about this a little bit, but I often tell my clients, the hardest thing that I find as like a brand strategist or someone who's helping these people, you know, connect with their audience and build a presence is to get people to simply be themselves. And it's really funny. This actually came up in a couple of topics of discussion on group calls this week where just like you're saying, it's like, well, how can I be more authentic. How can I infuse more vulnerability into my content in a way that doesn't turn people off? And to me, those questions are like oxymorons, honestly, because the moment you start to

think about how to be authentic, the mere act of thinking about how to be more authentic actually takes you out of your authenticity. The mere thought of how do I infuse vulnerability without turning people off is going to get you in this performative state of vulnerability. Just like how you you know, with influencers, with personal brands, they've been told like, oh, people need to see the realness, the humanness, they need to relate to you. And so they're like, okay, let me add in a sob story into my content rotation this week so that people can start to feel connected to me. I'll set up a tripod and cry in front of the camera so people can see that I have real emotions too. That's performative. That is still manipulating, like you said, an audience trying to get them to connect with you.

And it oftentimes has the sheer opposite effect, not because, you know, people are malicious or they pity you, but because they can feel the inauthenticity in it. And there's this energetic state, which I know sounds woo, but, you know, working 10 years with people, I can now stand 10 toes down and say 100%. There's an energetic component to how people feel connected to you. And even if your words and your delivery and your little crying on scene is looks authentic, if it's not actually energetically aligned with what you are feeling in that moment, if you feel like this is what I need to display or portray to get people to like it,

me, it's not going to have the same effect. And especially nowadays, we're in this, this era where people are a lot more discerning with who they're listening to. They're a lot more discerning to who actually is legit versus who is trying to, you know, just get my money. And people's discernment radars have gotten better. They can very quickly pick up when someone is energetically misaligned with the message that they are sharing versus the person who is actually sharing from this deep place of, this is my truth and I'm just allowing myself to be seen in it. I love that so much. A couple of things came to mind.

First of all, you and I, we amuse ourselves so much in looking at crying reels on his phone. Like that performative, you know, life is hard. Like if you had time to grab your phone, put it on a tripod, and start crying. Or like, in me tears. Like, if that's, you had a thought, like, let me record this one. I've never had a moment of crying and thought to myself, this is going to be great content. No. I think I would stop crying.

Like, I think that would be the way for me to stop crying. It's like if I'm crying and I'm really upset and then I think to myself, oh, my gosh, I need to record this. Like the process of setting up my phone would get me to stop crying. Right. I think I can continue after that. To me, it's like, on cue. Okay. Wait.

I'm out of frame. Let me try this again. And honestly, the people who share this content and they put like this motivation music, you know, this piano, like whatever. This is the funniest thing I see online, honestly. It's and it's and here's a thing too. It's not so much even about like being mean towards someone who thinks that that's a good idea. I think it's the question that I would ask someone who feels compelled to record themselves is yes,

you want to show parts of your journey. And I actually made a joke, I think, at the beginning of this year. And I said, I wish I had crying reels or crying footage of me that I could use to like stitch together into this like big recap story of like my last year because it was one of the hardest years I had to go through. And it's, it's funny because as I go through my camera roll, everything is just like me having a lot of fun. And it's not very accurate as to what's what was actually going on. And I made a kind of a funny post about it. But the, the question that I think I would want to ask someone is does this feel like you're doing it for the audience? Like, does this feel like you're doing it so that people, like, you need to be witnessed in that,

in that sorrow? You need to be witnessed in the sadness and the depths of your despair because you feel like there's a sense of validation or a sense of sympathy that you're trying to get from people. Or is it coming from this like genuine, authentic place of, like, I'm trying to share my story and I'm trying to, you know, not build connection. That's not what you're trying to do, but you're trying to show the real humanness, the rawness behind the scenes. I've teared up on calls before where, you know, someone is sharing something or I myself, I'm sharing an experience and I can feel myself getting choked up. And I think those are the moments where, like, you are actually authentically in a vulnerable moment. And I don't try to hold it back and try to make myself seem

strong and like, oh my gosh, no, I didn't cry. I didn't cry. Like, I'll let myself feel that emotion and I'll allow myself to be witnessed in that emotion because that is actually what I'm feeling in that moment. And I think those are the moments of vulnerability that people actually connect to. It's not the manufactured vulnerability. It's the vulnerability where you are genuinely feeling something that could potentially, you know, be off brand or or not make you seem like the strong authority that you usually are, but you're not afraid of how you're going to be perceived. You allow yourself to be perceived in that in that state. And that's what makes people go, I trust this person. because they're not trying to maintain authority in my eyes.

They're not trying to maintain, you know, this image. And so I value that vulnerability. I commend you for allowing yourself to be seen in that way. I love that. And just for the listeners, guys, we are not saying you should now cry so that you are considered as, you know, a vulnerable, authority they figure. It's not what we are saying. what we are trying to say here is feel whatever you're feeling.

Don't think about how does it make you look like, especially if you are in your own container, in the people you trust, like let yourself be witnessed in your own emotion. Don't try to suppress them. That's what we are trying to say. We're not trying to say, like, here's what you do. Just make sure you actually feel it.

And then that's when you post it. Like, no, no, no. Just let yourself be, we've witnessed in that. To me, also the question of authority is something I don't quite resonate with anymore because there is this pressure that I've been noticing that, oh, I need to be the authority here, I need to lead, and, you know, therefore I cannot show that, you know, things are tough for me. I think that, I think that's where, or the other side of it, like, I'm an authority and I'm going to talk about my challenges.

so that you see me as a human. Like, again, we are twisting and turning again towards more inauthentic ways of being. But what I have been seeing is there is this, I need to show I'm on authority, therefore I got this, therefore I see someone on Facebook saying that, I don't know, they're doing a live,

and they have quite a big audience. And she was saying how, I am the one who gets shit done, like having this identity of, well, you know, I can whip up a sales page and I can make sales whenever I can. But right now they are struggling with personal issues and, you know, they are behind. We lock ourselves into this identity of like I should get it all together because I'm the authority and I suppose to show people how it's done.

That can also be, you know, counterproductive to what we are trying to achieve here. Yeah. There's, I mean, there's a lot I can say about this. but here's what I'm noticing. There's kind of two main problems or two main ideas that come to mind when I think about this. Number one is that I think that we oftentimes, as humans, struggle to hold nuance. And we struggle to hold how two things can be true at the same time. We've talked about this in great detail.

I've written many essays about this. And I think when it comes to brand and perception management and, creating a brand identity and creating brand ethos or a brand concept that people feel connected to, we sometimes get so deep into the box of what is my brand meant to represent, that we forget that we are allowed to deviate from that because our brands as personal brands are not just what we do or how we are perceived, it's also who we are. And I don't know about you, but I'm a very dynamic person. I can be multiple things. I can be multidisciplinary. I can hold a lot of authority and dominion and kind of be really firm in myself.

And there could be things that I admit to that I'm not really great in or that I'm not, you know, I don't know the full scope of. And I think, again, as brands, we can't be operating in this one dimensional way of, you know, my brand represents, you know, the people who just do the things and get the stuff done. Much like how, you know, the Hormozies have always been the kind of the gods in this, you know, in this arena of being the ones who just. execute and no feelings and push through and get things done. And not too long ago, I think it was about a week ago or two, Alex Formosie released a video talking about how he wants to be stepping back from the constant hustle and taking care of more of his health and his mindset and all of that. And a lot of people were like, well, this is not on brand for you and whatnot. And he actually turned that video private. He didn't want to continue sharing it publicly. And I think, again,

we are dynamic humans. We are not meant to be fit into a box of like, I am a authority in this domain, and that means that I need to consistently maintain my authority here. This doesn't mean that when you take a stand for something, that you can be willy-nilly with it, or that, you know, you're contradicting yourself and, like, you know, one day you believe this

and the next day you believe something completely different, because that could erode authority and trust. But what I'm saying is allow yourself to be witnessed in the humanity, and the variety and to show your audience the paradoxes of like both things can be true. You know, I can be very devoted to my craft and I can be very focused and I can also have off days or off launches, being able to show all of that. The second piece of this is that there's always, and this is kind of like I feel the undermining

common thread amongst all of the work that I do with my clients, is anything being portrayed or communicated or created from a place of deficits and from a place of not. being grounded and rooted in yourself is always going to turn out to be a performance and never going to be a paint when you are operating from this this inner deficits of beliefs, inner narratives, self-concept that I'm not enough. I need to be smart. I need to be put together. I need to be professional in order to be taken seriously. Essentially, I myself on my own am not worthy of being loved and chosen and admired. We will always try to manipulate public. image to try to fit into what we think is going to complete that deficit.

Versus when you are operating from this place of wholeness, from this place of abundance, when this place of your consistently just owning all of you, you will not feel the pressure to adhere to your authority bucket or to feel like you need to portray yourself a certain way or maybe infuse a little bit of vulnerability here and there just to get people to connect with you. You don't think about doing those things. you just are. Like you said, you just are. You just are yourself and you allow yourself to be witnessed as yourself. And that's the thing that gets people really invested into your brand.

That's the thing that gets people connected to who you are. But when you're operating from this deficits of I'm not good enough, I'm not pretty enough, I'm not smart enough, I'm not rich enough, whatever enoughness that you don't feel like you have, you will always be compensating for it. And no matter how much you try to perfect your strategy, people can still sense that deficit within. I love that. And I think there are two things I wanted to add here. The first one is in Hungarian, we have an expression which is translated to English. It's self-forgeting. So self-forgetting is a state in which you don't monitor yourself. You are just in the moment. And when you are in the moment, you don't think about how it looks like. You are just in it. You know, you're just in it. You're just. just being yourself, you are present, very present with whatever you're focusing on, and you don't like self-monitor, you don't go into like, how does it look like, right? Yeah.

So I think that's such a good word to describe the state in which we just not overthinking or how things look like. And another thing I wanted to add, which is something you brought up is this comfort with yourself, right? Because you said in order for us to be really showing up as ourselves and not think, like, how do I get people to see me in a certain way, then you have to be comfortable with yourself. And the reason why we see some people and we feel so connected to them, because there is this ease and comfort that comes with who they are and they really embrace all the size of them,

what has been your journey in terms of getting more comfortable, being comfortable with who you are? Yeah, no, that's been a long journey. I mean, I won't get into all of it, being mindful of time. I think that it is an inside out journey because I think if someone were to witness me even five to six years ago, I appeared to be very comfortable in myself. But there was definitely some deficits in me truly believing in, you know, for the sake of better terminology, like believing my power or believing and fully owning my views, owning myself. with my, you know, with full, full conviction in who I am. And there's also two layers, I think, to coming into this comfort with yourself. There's the comfort of your actual self, like your actual being, like who you are as a human behind the scenes.

And then there's the comfort with your expertise, your craft, the thing that you want to become known for, the solution that you drive. And these two go hand in hand because I see a lot of people that also have a lot of conviction in their expertise and they have a lot of years of experience. They have a good track record in doing the things that they do. So they're confident in their craft or in their solution or the problem that they solve for people. But then what's holding them back is this lack of actual confidence and comfort within themselves.

So they hide behind their expertise. They hide behind building authority, teaching, tips, strategies because they're a lot more comfortable in the thing that they have evidence for and experience in rather than just they themselves. When I work with personal brands, it is very evident to me when someone is not lacking strategy, is not lacking actual knowledge or expertise that is needed or a skill set that is really honed. But I can tell when they get stuck in these loops of overthinking, of over censoring, processing, comparing to others, not fully expressing themselves the way that they want to express because they need to kind of fit it into that polish box of how, you know,

people in their field might perceive them and so on and so forth. So I think for me, my craft was always something that I was polishing and refining and getting more comfortable in because the more I worked with clients, the more experience I got, the more confident I got in my ability to get people results, I was leading with that. And a lot of the brand that I built was built off of my results and expertise and testimonials and what people said about my work. And that was really good because it allowed me to hide actually for a long time because if everyone knew Parmese for the work that she does, then they wouldn't have to know her for who she actually is behind the scenes. And, you know, there was a lot of things that I had to work through in confidence about my looks, confidence about the

way I speak, confidence about, you know, my, again, my deservingness as a human to even be the face of a brand. For the longest time, I hid behind other people's brands because I didn't really want to be known for me. I just wanted to be known for the work that I do. And so, It has been a really long journey of integrating all of those parts of myself. I would say my entire 20s, that whole decade, was basically integrating incrementally the little parts of myself that allowed myself to fully be seen and express myself the way that I express myself now and be comfortable in that. I just released a video like last week that talked about how for the longest time I hid myself from even appearing on camera because of, you know, comments and things that I was told, you know, when I was younger about my looks and about. how people will not take me seriously and that I don't look like an intelligent person and that people are going to be distracted or men will be distracted by the way that I dressed by the way that I carry

myself. And so appearing on video might not be the best way for me to get my message out there because people are going to start to make associations with with things that are not true. And again, I was told this when I was like 21, 22 years old and I really took it to heart. And I'm like, yeah, I want to be taken seriously. I want people to know me for my intelligence and the way that I think. And so I'm going to hide behind my writing. I'm going to hide behind my methods and concepts and frameworks and be known for those things because if, you know, God forbid, I appear on camera and people are like, oh, you know, she looks distracting. I can't take her seriously.

I can't, you know, whatever. And I made a commitment to myself to just fully own it and say, this is a competitive advantage that I have. Or, you know, if you're distracted, then maybe I'm not the person for you. Or if you can't fathom how someone can look and dress a certain way, but also a exhibit, you know, intellect and, you know, depth, then that's a you problem, right? It's not a me problem to have to fit myself into into either of those boxes. So it has been a long process in a journey, but I think the way that got me out of it and to get me to integrate these things was to consistently put myself in situations that felt uncomfortable. It was appearing on camera when I

didn't feel like it. It was owning parts of my story and allowing parts of my story to be seen by others and be felt by others rather than feel like I constantly just need to teach and, you know, share these deep intellectual essays. And those are the things that are going to, you know, put my brand ahead or so on and so forth. So hopefully that answered your question. Sorry for interrupting our glorious interview with Parmese. I wanted to quickly jump in here to invite you to expression, a program that I'm running in June 1st, 2026. This program, is about becoming fully expressed, but not just becoming fully expressed, but becoming a person whose presence is moving people. And not in a narcissistic sense, right? But in a way that

when we express, people actually pay attention. And I do believe that requires you to build a lot of self-trust and a lot of comfort with your expression. So this program, you're going to build exactly that. And I think if you have a message that you think matters, if you have something that you believe, is impactful and helpful, then you want to be good at expressing that. You want to be good at communicating that. And expression is going to help you do just that. How do I get comfortable with my expression and how do I trust my expression? And also, and this is something we're going to learn inside of the program,

how do I keep being myself and in my own ways of relating and being under pressure? When I'm facing a client that is a dream client, when I'm facing an opportunity that I really, really need to put myself out there. How do I preserve this without falling into persona performance? Okay? So that is expression program. I'm going to put the link for the expression program in the description of this video. You can, you guys can check it out. And I can't wait to see you if this makes sense for you. We will resume to our glorious conversation with Parmise. It did. And two things I want to say. First of all, you are a total snack. I have to tell you this you know that if i was single and lesbian even if i'm not lesbian you know you and i we have

future together come to europe we'll make it work we'll make it work yep we'll find a man for both of us right we share we'll share we'll share imagine imagine the perfect man you and i we both approve i think that would be talking match made in heaven anyway so that's one thing i I wanted to say. And it is a competitive advantage because it is interesting. Your looks are interesting. And if that stops someone from scrolling and be like, oh, this chick, she's kind of interesting. Let me see what she has going on. And then they connect your intellect. You're still winning at the end of the day. Because they see you and then they want to go deeper. And there's something about that. I think there is an overall mystery around not. showing all signs of you online. And I want to talk about that in a second and just go because

we talked about hiding. And I also want to kind of cover like the opposite of like laying everything out there. Like this is me. Take it social media. Like we can talk about the layers and all of that. I said I want to cover that. But I want to add here for me when it comes to expression and it comes to my work, what has helped me is to just shift the attention from myself because what has always been true for me is that my reverence is not so much of like what is this brand for or what how is it being perceived. It's for what needs to be said. And to me, what needs to be said is like the truth that needs to be said, what needs to be expressed, why this is important, this matters. So I walk with this mission that I need to say what matters and what needs to come through for me.

And that's where the focus says. Don't look at me. I'm just a messenger here. And I'm trying to make justice of what needs to be said and what I think matters in terms of what I see from my experience of humanity and my distilled down to whatever I feel like needs to be said. So it was never about, oh, do I get on camera and how do I look like? I can grab my phone yesterday. I grabbed my phone. I was on the couch, potato, wearing my shirt, you know, greasy hair.

Because there was something I wanted to say in that moment it was alive in me. So I just grabbed my phone. I recorded and I posted it. So it's less about how am I looking like in the moments of talking. It's more about what needs to be said. And you could argue if I look better than maybe people pay more attention to what I'm saying. Yes, I think that helps. It's an advantage.

But it was never about me. It was about what needs to be said. Does that make sense? So I think for people who are struggling with, oh, my God, I can't get myself on camera. I wonder what people think of me. You're not focusing on the thing. Either you like mission, you lack conviction, or you don't have something that matters. needs to be sad. So get that down the line. Like, what needs to be said? What do you think matters? And then

focus on that and everything else, you are just a background character of delivering the message. And that's why I think I told you this, but to me, working on my expression was important to me so I can get the message out there so people can understand it better. So they can hear me better. I can speak up. I'm interesting. And I can hear that the message is the whole thing. It's not me so much. So I think that was where my attention was shifting. And it was always been. in there. So it was never about, don't look at me or look at me. It was about, what do I say? That's something I wanted to share here. Yeah. And I think the, that is such a huge thing that holds people back is the how will I be perceived when they forget that when we are scrolling

on social media or consuming material by others, it's very rare for us to be focused on the orotator or like the person who is speaking. We're focused on, does this message have something that's valuable for me, right? Even with your whole. or the way that you start the message or the way that you, you know, consistently bring attention to certain themes. Like, I follow certain people that I'm, I'm so invested in, but I've barely paid attention to, you know, whether they're well put together or whether they look good or not good. Like, to me, it's like the confidence and the conviction and how they actually spread that message. And the clarity or the specificity of how I can utilize that message has always been more

important than what they look like behind the seats. And I will say that the whole pretty privileged thing, this has been an ongoing conversation with a number of people. It can also backfire. I think there's this belief that if you look better, people take you more seriously, which can be true in many cases, you know, even, you know, we've proven a little bit of that. However, it also can sometimes backfire. And like I said, with the people not taking me seriously, I realized a part of my journey was not so much leveraging pretty privilege or becoming known because of how I look. It was actually because either men would over-sexualize me or women would hate me for no reason. And I didn't like that.

I didn't like the fact that I almost had to, look at that. I didn't like the fact that I had to almost like work harder to prove that I'm smart. So it can go, it can go both ways. But it's at the end of the day, whether you are hiding because you are afraid of what you're, you know, going to elicit or what the judgment's going to be or if you're putting yourself out there because you think you're really pretty and that's the hook, that's the thing that's that's going to get attention. That is still image and perception management. It's still not you fully owning your whole self because I don't need to, you know, put on a performance to get someone's

attention. I realize like, this is actually how I look. This is how I dress. This is how I show up on calls. And I just need to own that. I just need to own that and allow myself to be seen. Will people be turned off? Yeah, some people will be. Will people really like it? Maybe some people will. But at the end of the day, it's like, this is who I am and I'm just owning who I am. I love that. And there is something I wanted to add here as well. And then we can talk about how much are we showing people and where is the hiding, what are the layers? There is this concept that if the gap between who you are in person versus who you are online is very, is tiny, then you're good because it means you are congruent, you're coherent. Like,

whatever is in here, it's actually, if I was to meet you tomorrow, I know exactly, I know you. Like, I get, I get this, right? There can be different roles in which you are in a role of a presenter, like you are in a role of someone who's leading a workshop. Like, that's a different role. It's, it's, it's, then, then you're doing it well, because when people meet you, they're not going to be surprised, like, oh, I thought that's you. You know, we're not putting on a persona for people to see. It's just a different mode of operation. Yeah. It's so important as well. Yeah, and I also think that to a certain degree, the way that you might speak to friends and peers and whatnot could differ a little bit. But I used to tell people they have like a public speaking voice versus like a human voice and I would want to merge those to sound more like the same.

Because yeah, maybe you and I going back and forth in our like WhatsApp chat or whatever, we might be a little bit more playful than we would be if we were teaching a group or coaching a class. client or whatnot. So to a certain degree, there is a role that we are playing, like you said, a facilitator, a teacher, or whatnot in that moment. But the key is to not get yourself into this, like, alter ego effect of feeling like you need to be a whole other person to be taken seriously or to be respected in your space. It's like it is still you. You are just stepping into the role of the facilitator at that time, which means you might be a little bit more serious. Your language might not have as much profanity. Like, whatever that role is for you. But at the core of it, you're still being yourself. You're not feeling like you need to say things a certain way or

portray yourself a certain way to get that person to think either highly of you or to position more as an authority or whatnot in that given moment. I love that. The same or like similar. Like, yes, we're not going to, I'm not going to cuss here and not going to use the words that I use on the WhatsApp. And obviously, we would both get canceled if you were to share those messages sometimes. Yeah. But this whole thing of become someone else so you can perform. it's like, no, I don't believe in that. I don't think that's, that's helpful. What you can do is you can find personas or not personas. Like you, for me, it was always how can I be more expressed and how can I work on that? Like, even more expressed, even more express. It's a journey of letting that be seen and

witnessed more and more as I grew and I get more confident with my way of showing up. To me, that was the goal. It wasn't like, how can I transform it to a different world? of me so that that can that can express and I can just be a sad bunny you know behind the scenes. Exactly. And again, going back to the nuance concepts, you know, you said how much of it do we bring onto the scene and how much of it do we keep hidden? And I think this is again one of those things that I consistently get asked because we think vulnerability and humanity means like airing all of our dirty laundry or allowing everything to be seen at all times because we are basically living for the internet now. And I don't agree with that either. You know, you talked a little bit about

mystery and I think understanding yourself and understanding your brand is vital in knowing how to maintain an element of mystery while still creating connection. And again, this is one of those things where it's paradoxical, but people either feel like you either need to be very held back and professional and mysterious and no one really knows the inner workings of you, or you're one of these people who just shares everything and you're consistently documenting and basically your entire life is is followable by other people. And something that, again, I don't want to toot my own horn, but something that I feel like I've gotten good at doing is how to build that sense of connection with my audience while still maintaining a little bit of mystery in the background, meaning I'm not living for the audience.

I'm not, there are various details about my life that nobody knows about. There's various details about me that people don't know about. Even for the longest time, me not showing up on video. Anytime I did, people would scour to it because they've never seen me on video. They've never seen me speak aside from just my writing. So it was very enticing for them to come into my workshops or come into podcast episodes that I did because they were curious about who is this person behind the scenes. Now, the threshold of how much do you share versus how much do you hold back, I think needs to come back to who are you, what do you do you believe in, what your core values are. and how much of that is even necessary or relevant to your audience. Because I draw my insights, my best content ideas from real lived experiences.

When I have interactions with clients, when I travel, when I even go to the movies, like there's themes and concepts that I see that are consistently reinforcing the main ideas of what my brand stands for. I just wrote this big article and I emailed it out about how I went to see the doubleware's product too. and it really brought some stuff up to the surface about what is required to succeed as a brand today. How do you stand out? How do you, you know, last the test of time and so on and so forth? So I am sharing my real vulnerable experiences, my lived experiences, the conversations, the insights, but I tie everything back to the overarching ethos of what my brand does, what my brand stands for, meaning the brand is not about me. The brand is not me.

I am the, like you said, the vehicle or the vessel that gets this message across. And in the process of sharing my own lived experiences and the insights and the perspectives that it's allowed me to draw, I am sharing parts of me. I am getting people connected to how I think. I am sharing the values that could be polarizing or the things that some people would agree with and maybe not agree with. But that doesn't mean that I need to speak about, you know, arguments I'm having with my parents and, you know, my breakup. and I don't have to bring every single element of me into the brand because I don't see my brand as a, I see it as an extension of who I am, but it is not, I'm not a me-centered brand.

I'm an idea and a concept-centered brand, meaning I'm, my brand stands for pushing a movement forward, but for pushing a mission forward. It's not, you know, come into my world because you're going to be close to Parmes and we're going to be best friends and you're going to be in my energy and that's going to be the thing that transforms things for you. Yeah, and I think that's dangerous. as well if you are in the come to my proximity because those people you know if they mess up suddenly they are either they admired or hated so there's no in between I think that's that's why it's dangerous

but what you were saying I think I agree with that two things the first one is I don't know if this is wiring but this meaning making is I don't know like everywhere we go there is something I see a garden of my grandma as I'm like, oh, this garden is very dry. Grandma passed away. If you don't tend to your garden, this is how, you know, like, it's fucking everywhere. I don't know how to turn this off. You probably can't. But everything, every input, like me playing with my sister, that makes me think of something,

that makes me think of something. So it's almost like our life is fueled. like our message is fueled by our life but it's not really the point it's just if you're looking for things and you're making meaning of things and you tie it to your mission your brand it serves as almost like an amplifier or another leverage point in which people can understand your message better yeah and when I was listening to my favorite speaker again he he says a lot of his personal childhood stories but those stories are not just for him to talk about himself.

It's because they serve a purpose to you, that's so he can drive the message home. So I think that's where the nuance is. Like, yes, you can show your personality. And I think to me that's important, you know, because I feel like I can't hide that anyway. It leaks through. If you speak, it comes through anyway.

Yeah. But it's not so much about that. It's about how my life is fueling that expression and how that is making it richer. for people to understand it better. So I think if that's the focus, then you're not thinking about, okay, so Parmy said, I should show my behind the scenes. I'm not sure.

Like, should I show me cooking? Like that, like, what is like, or do I have to tell about my dirty breakup? Or like, you know, it's like they're not getting the message. It's not about that at all. It has nothing to do with that. It's about what we just talked, you know? Exactly. because your brand is not about you. It's about the mechanism, the mission, the thing that you have to

share. And like you said, it's not so much about, oh, do I share about my breakup? Do I not share about my breakup? And yeah, you can, I did to a certain degree because I felt like my breakup was actually a really big part of the lessons in me gaining that confidence in that conviction. But you're simply using your lived experiences to deepen or enrichen the message that you are sharing. It's not about, you know, what did you do or, you know, how can I use this story to amplify something about myself? It's how do I use the story or this experience to amplify a message or an insight that is going to be valuable to you. So even when I am sharing personal stories, it's not about making me the hero of the story. It's about making the core takeaway of that story something that someone else can think about, reflect on, go, ah, I never thought about it that way.

Or I've been in that same position. I never, you know, consider it that this could be an alternative. Like, it's about the idea. It's not about you. So when you start thinking about it in that way, you don't think like, well, how much do I share? How much do I not share? Exactly. And I think that's where people missed the point.

And when I was listening to the speech, I think there was at least 10 stories shared in, like, there were structures, different parts. And each, I would say, that was four pillars. and for each he had like two, three stories he wanted to share on the spot. And they were all different stories from different people, like he interacted with, like his own life story. But they all served the purpose of just bringing the point home. Because perhaps you heard like story one. And you're like, I'm not sure if I can relate to that because I've never been in a

situation when I was a mother, for example. That was a story about a mother having teenage children, right? Like, I'm not sure about that. But that was another story about someone being in, you know, someone's grandpa being in the war. Like, I'm not sure about that. But you see how, because they were just different stories built into the way he was delivering, you're bound to resonate with one or two and you find yourself being like, oh, okay,

that's actually what happened to me. Like, now I get it, right? So I think that's how we use those personal stories and details to kind of help people understand, bring the point home, not so much about to let me talk about myself. And yeah, and I think this just goes back to whether that person got into business because that business was going to bring them a sense of meaning and fulfillment and it's going to like fill in an inner void or if they got into business because like you said, there was a mission, there was a message, there was something there that they felt was missing from the landscape and they were adding value to it. I have probably a long rant coming about this about how I think a lot of people in the last five to six years of online business, really got into the space because they felt that there was an inner void that needed to be filled. And this was their way of gaining a sense of recognition and significance and belonging and all the

things because now they're a significant person. If they can portray themselves in a certain way, if they can build an online platform, if they can gain an audience and build an income passively and whatever online, then they would finally feel whole and worthy and complete within. And you can kind of tell who these people are by the topics, by the way that they self-glorified, the way they self-pedalized, the way that they lead with lifestyle, the way that they assume the role of an influencer where everything needs to be portrayed or everything needs to be documented and shared for others because that is how they are sourcing their own sense of inner meaning, unfortunately. Whereas the people, I would say like you and I, where it's less about us gaining a sense of. of meaning and wholeness from our online presence, but rather using the online presence as a tool for self-expression

and for a tool to bring value and resources to society, for lack of better term, or to spread something that we feel is going to be helpful to others. And as a byproduct of consistently showing up with tidbits of value and stories and insights and perspectives, we naturally become positioned as authorities or we naturally become positioned as personal brands because people now want to connect with us behind the scenes. But it's not that we have created our online presence to self-glorify. And the energy, the intention and the vibe that you get off of someone's content

when you can tell that they're using it to source their sense of, you know, to fill in that void of inadequacy. It's easy to tell. Those are the people who also obsess about the metrics and who, you know, don't want to show up when their audience isn't engaging anymore. And like, I say all the time, if I get one like on something, I'm going to keep posting. I don't get discouraged. It's because I don't care how many people are applauding for me as I'm showing up. I feel like this is a message that needs to be shared.

And the process of publishing that thought is the reward itself, not what I'm gaining from my audience. Exactly. And I love that. Two things I want to add here. And I don't know how much time you have. I think we can. Yeah, we can keep going for about. Yeah, I'm good. Yeah, we're good. Okay. We can go until my camera dies again. No, two things I want to add here. the first thing is I do agree with you there are many people who came to business because they're looking to get that that void filled in some way I see that and we have a very classic case of NPD which is all about that and I see that and I don't resonate with those type of brands but to me what I can also see is like is there net positive here because you could argue like okay maybe they got into business because they were wanted to be somebody and they wanted to be recognized and they get that sense of fulfillment. But boy, in that journey, you know, I can't argue that's helpful. I can't argue what you build there is an empire. I can't argue that it actually helps people, right? Yeah. So to me, like, what's the net

positive? I could recognize net positives because at the end of the day, you said we can hold both nuances at once and be like, okay, this is not someone I want to be friends with, but hey, that's some cool things that they have done, whatever, for whatever motivation they had. So that's one thing I wanted to add. The second thing was around authority. If we asked the question, like, how do I position myself to be an authority? I'm sorry, but again, we are taking ourselves out of the, what are we trying to achieve here? But our message would be like, how do I get this to learn?

Like, how do I communicate this so people understand it better? How can I refine my way of saying things? How can I, that's a different focus on than how can I be looking like a certain way and be in authority. And like you said, you become authority by doing the thing. And I don't think people go into business, look, I want to be an authority. So what can I do so I can become it? Yes, if you don't get the likes, if you get no engagement, you're going to collapse in like 0.5 seconds. And this business is probably not for you, then you're not going to like it.

But again, you are focusing on the wrong thing if that's the question that you're asking. Yeah, because I think, again, we've been sold this idea. Yeah, that in order for you to make sales, in order for you to survive in business, people need to trust you. And in order for them to trust you, you need to be seen as the authority. So the question for a lot of these people is how do I become the authority? And I always say authority is a byproduct of you just being really good at what you do and getting really good at expressing it.

You don't go into business, like you said, being like, how do I become the authority? Because that is self-serving. And anything that is motivated by self-serving energy is not going to last. What you should be asking yourself is what is the problem that I'm really good at solving? how is it that I'm solving it differently than other people? What is it about my way of solving it that makes it effective or makes it more beneficial to the person that I'm helping and wanting to serve? You know, what are ways that I can demonstrate to this person, that I understand them, that I see them? What are ways that I can add value on a regular basis?

How do I express my message in a more clear, tangible way so that I can actually connect with the people that I want to serve? As a byproduct of getting really good at delivering your value, that is what positions you as the authority. It's the reputation that you build by doing the thing, allowing yourself to be seen, allowing yourself to solve problems on a regular basis, providing new insights to people. That's what gets you in the position of authority. If you're going at it backwards being like, well, what do I need to say to be positioned as the authority? You are always going to be in this performative state of trying to build trust and trying to overteach and trying to out-compete with other people's frameworks and methods and whatnot.

And that's not what we'll get people connected to you because they can feel that sense of transactionalism in your, in your approach. Exactly. And I think that will get you into how can I be photographed, you know, talking in a newspaper, like whatever. Like those are the external, like how does it look externally? Like that's when you fall into trying to make it look like you made it, right? I think there's a different energy behind you actually speaking or you being invited

to an event. Even if you create opportunities for yourself to get. your message across. It's a different energy than, you know, you're praying for a gig and then, I don't know, you're trying people. Yeah, I call it the difference between loud authority and subtle authority. And I kind of use the example of like quiet luxury as a way to kind of exemplify this, is that quiet luxury doesn't need to be loud.

It doesn't need to be screaming in your face. It doesn't need to have logos everywhere. as a matter of fact, it's very exclusive. It's very quiet. It's only like only people in the know in the circle will kind of know that you're wearing something that is a part of of quiet luxury. And there's this grounded sense of confidence that these quiet luxury brands have because they know that they are superior. They know that they have value. They know that they have quality and they don't need to be loud about it. Whereas I find the loud authorities of let's say like the Gucci's and the Versacchi's like the very loud brands need to consistently be screaming in your

face to me. And it's not to say that their products are bad or that, like you said, the byproducts of what they create or put into the world doesn't have like a net positive impact or that their, yeah, their stuff is not good quality, but it just simply is a different way of positioning yourself. And it's, it's, you're going to attract different audiences based on knowing your worth and allowing people to come to you versus constantly feeling like you need to be in people's faces to prove that you're good, to prove that you know your stuff, prove that. you are of high quality. Exactly.

I think it's a different energy as well if you speak from trying to prove it to people. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. Okay. I think we're good. I don't want,

is there anything you'd like to add? Do you think that we haven't talked about? What is something that is coming up for you today or this week? I feel like the, maybe the final thing I'll leave your listeners with is, is the idea that your presence cannot be curated. Your presence cannot be perfected. As a matter of fact, the more you try to perfect and curate this presence,

the less respectable it becomes. And even just the word presence, like having an online presence, it's not about you showing up and being consistent and being visible and being everywhere, because you could be pumping out content endlessly, especially now with AI. It's not the content itself, meaning the material itself that allows you to stand out. It's the actual presence that people feel that you have with that material. How much of you is infused in that content? How much of your realness is there? How much of your

actual lived experience is there? Presence also requires you to be present with yourself. And it requires you to have this inner sense of dominion, this inner sense of conviction, this grounded sense of self-concept, because that is what is going to be mirrored in your audience. What is coming up for me today and what I feel, you know, I would like to talk. about even publicly after this is the fact that your audience and your business, your brand is simply mirroring everything that you are feeling inside, whether it's conscious or if it's unconscious. So if you're not getting responses, if you have an unresponsive audience, if you have problem people coming into your world, that is always just a reflection and a mirror of what

is going on internally. The deficit, the inadequacy, the not enoughness, the proving energy, the needing to be perceived a certain way, all of those are going to be mirrored back to you. So if you want to build a presence that is magnetic, that is respectable, that is attracting consistent people who are aligned with you and your values, you need to embody those qualities first. You need to embody that part of you that knows that your expertise deserves to be on a stage, but not because you deserve to be on the stage, but because you feel like the message is fulfilling a mission that goes beyond just you gaining recognition. That's the type of presence that really survives this era, especially with AI being able to just

pump out endless amounts of viral content or, you know, viral hooks and information that, you know, is it readily available to everyone now. Your competitive advantage is not going to be consistency, visibility, or knowledge anymore. It is going to be the presence that you have. So that was, that's my final audience. No, I love that so much. And in terms of presence, I, again, if we start asking ourselves this question, like, how can I create a magnetic presence?

You're doing it wrong. I think to me, and I have a program I'm running in probably June, end of May, I have kind of the modules outline. It's all about expression, but it also has presence as well. How do I have a magnetic presence? Like, it's just whatever. It's just who you are. Like, how am I being perceived? Like, am I present with you in the conversation?

Or am I thinking about how my hair looks like from this angle? Like, you know, like, am I with you or am I monitoring everything around me? Exactly. And I think it comes down to being in the moment with people. Again, we are asking the wrong questions. So it's more about how do I remove the layers that stop me from being who I am and just showing up who I am? Because then it's not like, how can I be real?

Like, what do you mean? But what else can you be? I don't see an other way just to be real. So I think a lot of people, they have this layers and layers and layers of conditioning of how you're supposed to behave and, you know, you're not supposed to say that and behave like that. But I think it's like just get, forget all of that and forget how this looks and just be a human for once. I don't know. Like, I don't know. I think humans can do humans.

That's my only faith. Like that we can do. AI can do many things, human things, you know. And I think just letting that realness of. where you are show more, filter less. Yep. That should be the presence. Yeah.

And I think just even asking yourself the question, how do I be more magnetic is of telltale sign that you're not magnetic? Because that's just that question itself shows an external orientation to how are other people perceiving me versus actually owning your worth and being like, I already know. Like, I know who I am. I know how to show up. I know whatever I say in this moment is exactly what needs to be said. whoever's attracted to it is attracted to it, whoever's not attracted to it, is not attracted to it. And it is what it is. So I agree with you. This internal focus versus external orientation, I think, is key in...

It's the key. Yeah. Amazing. It's the key. And I think, I know what we can wrap up with this, but the people who sell, like, how do you become magnetic? And so when you walk into the room, they turn their heads towards you. Like, to me, that to me, that to me, that's comical that people feel like they can buy into a program and become like that if they just if only they just bought that program they would be turning heads and and I'm thinking to myself I never want to walk into a room and turn heads like please don't look at me like I actually don't don't even come talking to me unless I signal somehow that I want to be talked to which is

rare but but I don't see that's that desire for me but that's but that's probably probably why you and I are more magnetic because we are not like, look at me, please, just stare at me. It's just like you are. And you're embodied and who you are and you, and that's just what it is. You don't think about. Yeah. And the magnetism, like whether people feel drawn to you or they turn their heads or they come to talk to you, I think it's just more embodying a state of being so grounded with yourself where you're not worried how. other people are going to respond in your presence and you're not trying to control how other people respond in your presence because you were detached from that and even these programs of like you know

the femme fatale or the like magnetic networking and the whatever to me they still work at a very surface level because it's how are you presenting yourself what do you look like how do you carry yourself what's your tone of voice and and you know are you speaking at a very fast like high octave or are you speaking at like a very low grounded octave like these are all still manipulations to me A program that actually helps you become more magnetic is going to help you sit with the parts of yourself, the shadow parts of yourself that you probably have not integrated, that you have not revisited. It is the shame that you might have been carrying from childhood. It is the guilt for being too much or that feeling that you're, you know,

you need to dim yourself to be palatable to others. Those are the things that you would have to work on to become more magnetic. It's not the how you carry yourself and what you wear and how do you approach and what's the pitch when you open your mouth and, you know, how do you talk to someone for the first time? It's much more who do you believe to be before that stuff? Not saying that stuff's not important. It's just that that comes secondary to, first of all, how do you feel about yourself? How do people feel in your presence?

That's it. That should be the number one indicator of whether you're magnetic. Well, listen, Permis, it's really hard to sell a program in which you're going to face your shadows and, like, work with shame. Right? because if you think about it, well, listen to me, you want to be more magnetic, just dress like this, wear like this, you're going to be perfect. You're going to have all the confidence. I had a friend, and she just launched a new business. And her whole business idea is to have a like household, everyday household ladies come to her photo shoes.

She's going to give them makeup. She's going to dress them up, do their hair. And her whole idea is, today. it's all about you. We're going to show you how beautiful you are. And suddenly you're going to be confident. Like that's the thing. This will help you.

This will snap you back. Once you see those pictures of yourself, it's going to be it for you. And you're going to back home and you're going to be a re-vired person. And I didn't want to tell her like, well, that's not exactly how it works. You know? Yeah. Yeah. It's like the people who, you know, feel bored in their business or they feel like they're not getting visibility online.

So they do a complete rebrand and a branding photo shoot. And they think that's, the thing that's going to get them with the visibility. And it can, it can draw eyeballs there. I said this in my video last week. I said, you can be very good looking. And it will draw eyeballs to you initially. But then what's there to keep people there? What is the depth? Can people sense that is this just a facade of shallowness? Or do you actually have that inner sense of confidence? Are you just exuding confidence in how you are presenting yourself? Or do you actually embody that confidence? Very different. That's not so sexy that work. Yeah. It's far from sexy from

you know, if you want to do that actually working yourself. It's the unsexy work that always gets you to the sexy outcome, which unfortunately, which unfortunately is the paradox and the reality that most people don't want to face. This is true when it comes to becoming hardworking, you know, wanting to live that soft life, having that spacious life, having that abundant business, that is resourceful and that is generating impact and lots of income. There's that. There's, you know, it requires anything.

that is worth attaining in life, whether it's that confidence, magnetism, money, whatever, is going to require some unsexy work that people don't want to talk about. So that is the secret to the presence. It's that you can't get the sexy outcome without the unsexy work of taking a deep, long look at yourself. For the future, let's talk about that a little bit for you. I know you have had the rebranding program that you launched and ran. February, I think even March. Yeah, it just ended last week.

Oh, okay. Well, then April. Okay. So I, so you had that program. Can you just talk about what you have currently for the, for the listeners, if they want to dive into your work more? What is something that you have coming up? How can they find you work with you? Yeah, for sure. So I have an academy. It's called the neurobranding academy that basically is an A to Z school, as I like to call it, from starting your brand, setting up your brand foundations, getting clear on your brand identity, knowing what you stand for, how to package up your intuitive genius and wisdom and experience and expertise into an actual tangible product or service or something

that is needed in the market by looking at demand and looking at what is actually going to sell. So we're not just going to take your woo-woo fun stuff and put it into pretty packaging and try to sell it. we're doing actual market research to look at what is it that the market will buy and how do we position your work as something that is needed and relevant. That's kind of our first semester inside the program. And then next we're going to be focused on the expression. So the communication, the messaging, how do you actually write content, how do you talk about the work that you do? How do you articulate the value in a way that's top of mind so that people actually understand why they would need your product or services? Because a lot of people go out there and they just start talking from their expert lens of what it is,

that they do and that wording and the jargon just goes over the tops of the heads of people. And then finally, how do you actually build a presence? So how do you distribute your work online? How do you build a platform up with your knowledge and wisdom and how do you become a respectable public figure that people consistently come to and want to organically work with? So this academy is a 12-month program. I've been working on consolidating it and working on relaunching the new curriculum, which is going to include a lot more of what's going on in this in this landscape of AI and marketing and how things are shifting and how buyer behavior has changed. Originally, the program was created in 2022. So there's a lot of things that have evolved since then.

A lot of principles of marketing still stay the same because I tell people, I don't teach you tactics. I teach you human nature. So human nature is going to remain the same. But a lot of the ways that we want to be showing up and building that presence is going to evolve. So that's an academy that I have running right now. It is, ever enrolling, meaning anyone can come in at any time, but I regularly cap it because I reach capacity for how many students I have in there. I'm very hands-on and I'm very involved in the process of your learning. There's obviously a self-paced curriculum you can consume at your own time. There are weekly mentorship calls that people attend for Q&A and for help with implementation. There's copy labs and other resources where I actually help you with the development of your

marketing resources. So there's a lot to go through. It's about 12 months long, but I'm in the process of rebuilding it. It doesn't mean that the program is, you know, shut down until it's rebuilt, but I'll be reopening its doors probably near the end of summer. So if people want to come in, they can, you know, they can apply. And if they're a good fit, and if their business is where it should be, that we can, we can kind of get started. Otherwise, I have a series of little many ways that people can kind of dive into my work, whether that's free. I've got a personal branding guide that they can download. There's a quiz that they can take to see where, are the leaks in their current way of showing up and why it's not creating demand.

And I've got a little $97 program that they can take if they kind of want to DIY their branding and marketing and how to show up in a much more magnetic way. So yeah, that's kind of a recap of what I have right now. There's going to be other offerings and things that will probably come up, just like the rebranding program that I did a pop-up of and I launched in February. So it might run another round of that either end of the summer or into the fall since it was it was very good i think a lot of people need that need that information but that's that's what i've got going for now awesome well thank you for sharing all that and thanks for coming thank you for having me i love their conversation i love that conversation honestly so you guys i'm going to link everything

all the socials of parmesse programs quizzes all in the description of this episode So you want to check that out. Just make sure you show her some love. Thank you.