Omnichannel - Kirtana Devatha- How To Scale and Optimize Your Agency?

Episode Date: September 4, 2021

Send us a textKirtana Devatha is here to end prevent entrepreneurial burnout, reduce revenue yo-yo's, and remove business overwhelm. Over the last four years, she has moved from a freelancer to running her own digital marketing agency worked with over 67 bloggers and businesses. She is now on a mission to help online business owners systemize and automate their businesses. This saves them a ton of time and makes them a lot more money, thus allowing them to build a business they always dreamt of.Get a FREE Copy of the High Converting Online Events Book: https://book.dominikalegrand.com/

Welcome, everybody. You are listening to the Omni Channel podcast, a podcast from digital marketers to digital marketers. I'm your host, Dominique Caldegrant, and my mission is to help fellow marketers and entrepreneurs to grow their businesses online. So buckle up and let's get started. In today's first episode, I had the honor to have Kirtana with me as my first guest and she will talk to you about and teach you guys about how to build systems in your business, what are the most common bottlenecks in a business and how to scale, optimize and automate certain parts of your business in order for you to get more free time and able to take a step back to avoid entrepreneurial burnout. So let's get into the podcast episode. Enjoy you guys. Thank you so much for being here. Such an honor to be with you and

having you on this first episode of the podcast. You've been starting out as a freelancer, right? So that was, can you just tell us a bit more about your journey? Because right now you are working with business owners to kind of have this shift from not being so involved in your businesses and how to optimize, automate to prevent burnout so can you just tell me about your journey from a freelancer to how did you get here yeah that's a great great question so uh essentially a quick story would be i started four and a half years ago as a freelancer and uh you know started subcontracting work for somebody else being a Pinterest manager and over time you know they passed on their clients because they were pivoting

and kept upskilling kept learning and that's essentially why we are in the same mastermind had to upskill to eventually get to Cat Havill and understand sales funnels how to automate your lead gen and it was around here that I still honestly did feel there were information gaps. And throughout this process of upscaling, what I have sort of gone ahead and learned is how to build systems and automations into your ecosystem. And this is what essentially would either make or break a successful business. So, you know, when you're building a machine, you want it to be as efficient as possible. And that is where systems and automations come in.

And the simplest way to think of a system is McDonald's. Like the only reason they could replicate it is because they had a system. It was easy for anybody could kind of, you know, just put those two buns together and whatever is required in it so yes um so you did mention that you work with with entrepreneurial burnout like how you define burnout and what's your like what in your career what you have been seeing entrepreneurs suffering from burnout that's a question very close to the heart so yeah so what I do see every single day is entrepreneurs start off with the dream of you know this business and it's gonna be awesome they're gonna be the boss and they kind of are gonna be their own you know whatever and the

reality then kind of hits them where that's really not the case because they're not just doing the fulfillment side of it. They're probably doing all of the other things, which is running the business. And our business is a great teacher. But what I do see people get stuck is when you're working so much in the business, sometimes it's hard to get out of the business and see what's really going to help you because you're kind of caught in the swans and that is where somebody like me would come and help you and you're probably working 70 to 80 hours a week and that is no romantic way to run a business because you don't want you don't start the business to run you. You started the business so it could kind of help you have a better life.

So my goal is to remove that entrepreneurial burn, which would come in with the overwhelm of running a business through systems and automations and essentially helping you to run a very efficient McDonald's kind of system for your business um before we get into really the the how-to and this is what exactly you're going to give us some tips as well on just how to optimize a bit better and what are the bottlenecks of the businesses um before we get into that um if you don't mind we could talk a little bit about this romanticizing of long business hours. For some reason, I feel like I've been sold that it's okay to work 16 hours a day because struggle is good. Everyone does it, just suck it up. And I just feel like it's such a misconception that somehow if you just work 16 hours a day, every single day, then that's a good way to live because everybody does that. So what's your take on that misconception?

So that's a great point that you bring about because society does just say work hard, work hard, work hard. And you're probably kind of going to box yourself into that saying, maybe it's me. I'm not working hard enough, which is probably true. But if your hard work is not going to lead to measurable, tangible results, you're basically doing the same thing every single day. You're stuck in the hamster wheel just because the hamster runs on the wheel does not make it more productive. So the whole idea of systemizing and automating is to really be able to bring in a team who over time can kind of run your business

so that you can slowly get yourself out of the business. And every owner's biggest job is to produce content for their business, at least the online business world. And what really happens with being able to produce content is it's time consuming. And you don't have the time to produce content for yourself. And I am't have the time to produce content for yourself. And I am kind of a victim of this. I would always tell all my clients saying, hey, you've got to put out content, then never did I have the time to kind of put out content for myself. So the idea is to set up systems for everything from marketing to sales to do you have a CRM? Do you have an email list? How many emails are going out?

And really slowly to bring you out of the system so that you can really be the visionary of your business because that is the right way of running a business, not working 16 hours a day. Yeah, I think, yeah, you made such a great point. I think everybody can say that this is exactly what they want they just want something that can run without them being so involved because obviously once you get started yes that's your baby and you want to be involved in your business but once you get into that point

you kind of just want to step out um it does sound like a daunting task for any entrepreneur to achieve uh i think you can totally help with just the how to get started with this process of automating because i think it's just something that right now oh my god i need i need a team so do i have to have like hr experience like where do i get started so what would you be saying to those people who are just frightened by the fact that they just, it's a huge task to automate and do all of that? Absolutely. So just a disclaimer is anybody who's running a business, the first biggest piece that you must have, which is going to either guarantee your success or failure is product market

fit. So if you have product market fit. So if you have product market fit, and what that essentially means is you're promising your customer a certain something. And if there is the guaranteed transformation of that, and you have buyers buying from you, because you know, there is proof of concept, you do have product market fit. Now, if you don't have product market fit fit whatever I tell you is really just going to be a slow death and so I'm going to start off with the premise that everybody who are going to listen to the show at this point are going to question themselves and say do I have product market fit

how do we determine if you do it is it like how like feedback wise or sales wise, like the numbers are talking or how do we make sure that, okay, what if I don't, like, let me just get this out of the way to make sure everybody can move on to the next step. Yeah, so that's a great, great question, because this is something my mentor Ravi Abuwala says, who is the one who's trained me with the systems. And he would always say, if you reach out to people, and so basically, he says, you must have some sort of research about your offer before you even sell it. So go out there, reach out in your ecosystem, in your network, in LinkedIn, and try to get a little bit of assessment as to what really is the pain points of everybody. And once you understand that, and at that point of time, when you craft your offer, go back to the same people and check with them if they're willing to pay money for that. And when they are willing to pay money for the offer, which is going to kind of make their life

easier, you do have product market fit. And so once that is proven, the only step really is to build a system around it so that the new leads that are coming in and new leads are kind of nurtured correctly. And then they go into a sales ecosystem and everything is data driven. Emotions are great. Emotions is what really kind of brings you to the assessment that there's a problem but always verify it with data because many times I have been emotional about certain things and when I go back to the data it speaks something else so two plus two is always going to be equal to four so but anger could be variable like I could be angry for different things you could be angry for different things I could be happy for different things so you know basically remove the guesswork out of

building a successful business I think it's so important what you said is to reach out to people on LinkedIn because I think even to test the product market fit people would just go to the family and friends and hey what do you think it's a great idea i think so too but i think a lot of people a lot of people just lie or just like oh yeah sure like you go and i think even the fact that just getting that feedback loop and just getting that real-time validation so i really people put the money behind an idea and the concept and you can really test it out that speaks volumes than your family your friends or whoever you are, you know. Exactly, exactly. Like you could have your mom buy it for you,

but you know, that doesn't show that your product market fit. And yeah, really the money part is what's going to change the game. Once somebody is willing to pay the money for the transformation, you do know this is a problem and you do know there's a market which requires you to solve this. And this and you do know there's a market which requires you to solve this and this doesn't have to be a crazy numbers game right you don't have to go after 10 000 people you probably have to just go after 15 to 20 people and you know you'll kind of get the patterns as to what really is that problem and yeah that is how you kind of establish product

market fit you did mention the problem part that really um business should essentially solve a problem um do you think that that really can make or break a business where how effectively they're solving the problem and how much someone can for example charge for a problem solution what is your take on that the problem solving part uh so i think step one is to really identify the kind of problems the industry has and step two is probably go back and talk to them and start with something realistic you know like if you are going to be charging two thousand dollars for your service is your two thousand dollars going to come back to the client within a month within two months like what is the turn of investment for them and if it's going to be

one year of course they're not going to buy the product but if you can kind of show it to them that you know you're probably going to get this in 30 days in 45 days then it's a no-brainer so essentially the way you way I would approach pricing would really be how quickly does the client make this back the sooner they make it back though and as people start buying it and as you start having social proof you could always up your prices yeah that's a really good good measurement of um of your services and products um so okay let's move into really the thick and thin of the topic. And let's move into really the automation and the optimization part. So you already mentioned your first tip on the product market fit. What else do you think are important for someone who wants to kind of optimize and avoid that burnout to do?

So when you look at business, it's going to be a lot of departments that need your attention, right? So the first thing as an entrepreneur that you must try to do is stop being reactive, but start being responsive. So what I mean by that is be purpose-driven and what really makes or breaks a business is really sales of the business. So you have to always start kind of dealing or fighting the problem, which is closest to the money. So once you establish product market fit, do you have enough leads coming in? And if leads are coming in, what is the sales looking like? And if sales are coming through uh what is the sales looking like and if sales are coming through what is the show up rate so when you look at the overall thing the first thing that would come in would be leads and the last thing would be probably the show up rate so uh as a business owner you're probably going to be like hey which piece do i move first because it's it's literally

like a game of chess yeah so So the first thing that you must attack for sure is how do I increase the show up rate because we're thinking of you know small hinges, big doors, tiny levers that you want to pull which kind of don't take too much effort but you know are compounding in terms of results. So if you had to just go back to the example I gave you the show-up rate is 50 percent and you still have people booking in you have everybody filling out the application but why is the show-up rate 50 percent now if you could make that 75 percent would that increase your close rate so that's the first problem you would start tackling you won't start from the front, but you start from the back. And some problems are a lot easier to tackle than the others. Like for instance, sales would be the most complex problem for you to tackle. You could definitely tackle fulfillment, you could definitely

see if you have SOPs for that. What are SOPs? Just for those who don't know. Yes. So SOPs stand for Standard Operating Procedures. And every business really has SOPs, but most of them don't document it. So essentially, an SOP is a step-by-step list of the tasks and the order in which you would approach it. Essentially trying to replicate the same results, I do it whether you do it whether somebody else does it you know because the steps are laid out a fire roll must be able to get what you're kind of doing and yeah so with SOPs for fulfillment then it becomes simpler so then you could have a Tom who's kind of you know managing a few clients then you could have a Lina who's kind of managing a few clients but the end product really is uniform and consistent

so the first piece of the puzzle once you have product market fit is to ensure you're kind of delivering what you're promising because that's what is going to build the integrity of yourself as a business owner and you know also the way people are going to look at the business and once the fulfillment is taken care of the next step really is to ensure you're kind of collecting testimonials there's a system to collect testimonials again like how many of us do reach out to our clients even though we have amazing success you know find out from them hey how is it going do you enjoy working with us and if at any point of time they say you know it's been great working with you guys have kind of really helped me, then you could definitely reach out to them and say, could you just kind of help us with the case study? And most often than not, when people are happy, and they thank you, they're ready to kind of give you a case study. And yeah, so essentially try to have a tiny system around every piece. So you know, from case studies, you're going to try to get more clients. So it's going to be a, you know from case studies you're going to try to get more clients so it's going to

be a you know exactly and uh the more uh streamlined and efficient your systems get uh the better it will really be so in this situation i just spoke about the product market fit which is the offer i spoke about the client fulfillment. And I also spoke about SOPs. Let's further go down. Like then what happens is once you have all of this, maybe you started off by just doing organic outreach, and you started getting few people coming in every day. So over time, what you definitely must do is get a sales funnel, because that's like really throwing gasoline, right. And that's when you're going to really attract the right kind of people. So when you start a sales funnel, if you don't track correctly, you could be burning money

very, very quickly. And what I mean by tracking is, are you hitting the standard benchmarks of the industry? Is your click-through rate 1% or 2%? And if that is the click-through rate, what is the opt-in rate? And if the opt-in rate and if the opt-in rate is lesser than you know 15 to 30 percent that's really a bottleneck that you must look into maybe it's the messaging maybe the ad is not carrying the scent into the landing page maybe the landing page is not loading quickly so you know essentially each of these are going to

be tiny problems that are going to pop up in a business but having your pillars in place which is client fulfillment which is lead generation which is a sales team with this trm all of that is going to help you and tackling the problems in the right order is really really key oh there's a lot of things you mentioned um and a lot of great great ideas um but again i think for just to go back to the beginning which was the um let's establish that we you know the product is is validated the idea is working um and you were just talking about the difference between um the show up rate and um the fact that people are engaging with the ads i think something like that um can you just give us perhaps for the listeners just to talk about the show up rate like what are those can you give us some tactics to make sure we increase the show

up rate for example okay so without going into too much details just just like tiny things because you as you mentioned if you can just give us a time a few examples of how would you go about increasing the show up rate um without really going into too much details okay so in the situation that we're speaking about, the show operator is 50%, which means people are booking the call, and people are not showing up for the call. So the tiniest thing that you could do is check if somebody is calling the prospect before the call, and checking with them and say, Hey, I'm looking forward to the call today, will you be coming in? Things like that, you know, just adding a few touch points. And really, once I book a call with your agency, how many case studies or how many email flows am I hearing back from you? Like there is this rule where somebody has to consume seven hours of content before they really become a fan of you. Have you tried to have the seven hour content in place? Have you shared and engaged with this prospect, you know, before they kind of jump on the call with you? Or is it just, you know,

a hard sell? Because those kinds of sales calls don't really go very well. What really helps is when marketing and sales go hand in hand, when they're really Siamese twins, your marketing really helps your sales efforts. So in this situation, tiniest thing that you would do is probably start reaching out to the prospects to see if they're going to come and increase the touch points or reduce the touch points

depending on what works. You split test it. Okay, so let's go back to some of the bottlenecks that you mentioned. Can you give us some more ideas on that like some more advices you mentioned the whole cycle it sounds like very daunting to start out is this something that even i can do without a team or do i have to have like a whole whole team around me one that produces content one that causes the sales one that causes the sales, one that handles the support.

Like, do I have to have all those people around me or can I just get started by myself on this whole automation journey? Yeah, so that's a fantastic question. And the reality of it is all of us just have 24 hours a day, right? So the way you use your time should be really really efficient and as a entrepreneur who's starting off or probably in their journey you have to be very capital efficient you cannot really hire everybody and kind of get them on payroll because you don't know if the business is going to crash tomorrow right so you want to grow one step at a time and the way to do that is to really understand that today you have a global pool which you can access.

Like somebody sitting in the US can really hire somebody from Philippines and start working with them. So the first thing that you must try to do is get a VA and really try to, whatever tasks that could be done by somebody else, which are not really that important, should just be handed over to a VA, which could be SO by somebody else, which are not really that important, should just be handed

over to OVA, which could be SOP'd out, because then what's happening is a plate full is slowly going to start getting empty. And that is when you can start focusing and adding more quality problems that you can solve as a business owner. And there is definitely a hiring structure. The way to definitely hire is start off with a we. And, you know, there's two parts to it. As an entrepreneur, there is you running your business and there's also you running your personal life. So how much of your personal life is something

that you're kind of putting time into? Are you preparing your meals? Are you spending time doing the laundry? Can you outsource all of this, you know, somewhere else where it's cheaper? So you could really optimize the way you're using your time and slowly start hiring up for lead generation and sales is something that's the last part that you should ever outsource because why do you think is that why do you think you should keep that you should really keep that because as a business

owner you're going to be the most passionate about your business. And the passion obviously is going to shine through in your voice when you take the sales calls. And if you were to outsource that too quickly, two things could happen. If you don't fix your lead problem and you're going to get a sales rep, say they have leads, they have five leads in five days,

and they don't really close any. So they don't really have the interest to stay on because most of the sales reps we bring on our commission base. And the only way you can bring in sales is when you have enough quality leads coming in. So when you don't have quality leads coming in, getting a salesperson is further going to reduce your chances and probably going to be a burden because at that point, you can't really measure, hey, is it the salesperson who's screwing up or is it my lead quality? You don't know. Yeah, exactly. So until you have a steady pipeline, don't worry about that. Okay. So you were saying that there are some tasks that definitely need to be delegated to a virtual assistant. And we can talk about, we don't have to go into details

where to find them. I think it's very easy for anyone to Google and just find a virtual assistant and we can talk about we don't have to go into details where to find them i think it's very easy for anyone to google and just find a virtual assistant nowadays um but you did say that the sales is the last thing that you should ever hand over and you should keep holding on to it until you really have everything figured out so yes um so you were saying that so what are the tasks that are in in a business like, let's just talk about like a normal digital marketing agency. What are the tasks that you say, oh, that is definitely something that you need to outsource or this is definitely need to keep, not just to sell, like just as a beginner. What are the tasks that you would, and how do you pick and choose what task you're delegating and what you're keeping to yourself?

Another great question. So like you said, sales is the last one that you're going to delegate. I would try to keep lead generation in-house as much as possible because if you were to outsource lead gen and you can't measure the quality of leads, again, you're going to be burning money very quickly.

So try to keep your lead gen in-house and try to focus on one platform at a time. Like instead of trying to throw money into YouTube, into Facebook, into Google, all at the same time, just try to see if there is organic strategies that you can kind of get your clients from. This could be Upwork. This could be email marketing, cold email.

This could be prospecting on LinkedIn. So really start off there. Try to get to a certain level. I'm talking about a really beginner here. And yeah, so once you kind of have all of that in place, then it's really about getting your sales funnel into order and kind of then ramping that piece of the puzzle really. However, if you are a mid-sized agency and you're throwing money into multiple channels and you have the funds because you're making 100k a month or 50k a month, then what really has to be done is measurement. Are you tracking which ad is bringing you the highest number of quality leads? And if you're not tracking, then you could be burning money very quickly or leaving a lot of money on the table, really. So for a big agency, it's really tracking. And for a newer agency,

it's really about fine-tuning your messaging, fine-tuning all of that, trying to get it to work organically first. And that could be a VA task. You don't have to send messages yourself. A VA could do that. So these are the tasks that you could a low level right like you could have somebody do it for you because it's the same

every day yeah and yeah so that that would be my recommendation yeah so you were saying that for for a smaller agency it's it's about the smaller repetitive tasks that that you suggest to be delegated and everything that's uh funnel or sales that should stay in-house. And for like a mid-size or bigger agency, it's better to see and how to measure if you have money to spend and just really find out where is the money not flowing in the right direction. Exactly. Because tracking really then plays a big deal because i've spoken to so many owners who don't know what their cost per

lead is who don't know what time you know what is the time duration for somebody to be a lead to a close customer and what is the close percentages so you know not having these numbers it's hard for us to make decisions so having better tracking systems is the backbone of your business yeah absolutely okay um so kirtana kirtana can you um give us some kind of um can you give us some kind of problems and solution that you've been seeing in your practice that's reoccurring and maybe we can discuss that the solution for that absolutely absolutely so uh this is one problem and i really want you to really understand the method of thinking here so that you know you could apply it in your business so the idea is

let's assume a client is doing cold email and uh they have been sending out hundreds of emails every single day and they're really not getting too many callbacks. So usual method would be, hey, email marketing does not work for me. Now let's dive deeper. Let's look at your numbers. Okay. You're sending out a hundred every single day. What is the open rate? Is it 1%? Is it 2%? So I think standard cold email open rate should be around 5 to 10%. And if you're not hitting 5 to 10%, let's look at what is the problem there? It could be the quality of your email list, where are you getting your email list from? Or it could be a subject line is not very intriguing. So instead of us trying to go and edit out the full copy of the

message, which all of us know copywriting is a skill and you know, trying to change that each time takes hours of time and kind of fine tune that that's a big problem to do at one point. So what is the smallest thing that you can change to try to see that there is going to be some kind of you know, result positive result or outcome from that. So try to test that there is going to be some kind of you know result positive result or outcome from that so try to test out email subject lines because testing the subject line out is a lot easier than you know kind of changing the entire body of the email and uh your subject lines uh there's two things right one is the subject line one is the first few lines of the email yeah so you could also ensure that is not starting with

an immediate ask it could be something which is kind of being curious enough for somebody to click on it to see hey what is this really about and go deeper and then when you get your open rate high enough and you don't have your response rate coming in then there is a messaging problem so yeah so the the usual method would be hey email marketing doesn't work and you shut that off and move on but that's not the way yeah i think it's so interesting the way you tackle a problem from really starting to the smallest detail which is okay instead of saying well that sucks that doesn't work and really trying to understand what the issue is i think that takes a different skill set to be that um attentive for the details okay let's look

at the subject line right if you changed it and still not working the opening grade is still not getting higher maybe if it's not the subject line it's the email list or it's a different problem and it's always trying to find it before really going to the extensive work of copywriting a whole new email and spending hundreds of dollars for a professional copywriter to do that when perhaps the email is fine it's just that the email list is not the best or the headline or, or, you know, or the opening rate is just, it's so interesting to just dissect that. I think I love the way that you tackle that kind of problem solving part. Do you have any, yeah, do you have any other like scenarios like that are very repetitive that you see in your practice?

Yeah. So another situation would be you have a Facebook ad that's running, which is leading into a funnel and the funnel is simple. First page is an opt-in page. Second page is an application page where you qualify your lead. And third page is a Calendly page or a booking page. And fourth page is a thank you page. So that's a simple structure of the funnel. And your lead quality is really bad. So what would be the first thing that you would try to fix? What would you say? Sorry, what does that mean?

That my lead quality is bad for those who are... It could be that those you're getting on calls with don't have the money. It could be, you know, those you're getting on a call with are not a good fit so it could be multiple reasons right like why quality is bad so uh let's assume you have uh you have an okay so this is the ecosystem and this is what you're trying to do to get leads and what is the first thing that you would try to change to improve the quality of leads without you know putting in too much effort changing the sales funnel redesigning that is again time consuming you don't want to start there right so go to the basics what is the click-through rate of the ad and if you know the ad is the click-through rate is lesser than one percent or two percent which is the benchmark for cold traffic

then is it probably the creative which you could kind of change? Because changing a graphic is a lot easier than changing the entire funnel. And then going back to it and see if that's improving your click-through rate. It could also be a targeting issue. So maybe you're not targeting the right set of people.

So before you go into the funnel, which is you know the bigger piece most extended yeah exactly start smaller and you know these are the small changes that's going to make a big difference because you will start seeing your numbers improve as you start making these small changes which is simple right like the brain thinks anything that simple is that's just right yeah so but that is the right way to go about it yeah yeah that's really good as well I think I'm definitely guilty of that I'm thinking my funnel is the problem when it's not the funnel it's it's everything else it's it's either could be the messaging or the targeting I think that a lot of people would just run in and just change

up the funnel right away and think oh my, my God, maybe that's why. Because they're not the quality of the leads are just not the best. I did have a client with a very, very similar problem. She was selling a high ticket coaching and everyone who booked a call were just not the right fit. And she immediately wanted to scrape the whole funnel. And like, I don't know, it's just not working. But she did get those clicks. It's just that it's just not the right click, the click.

Yeah. So in a situation like that, that's what you dig deeper. You're like, okay, you're getting the clicks, but you're not getting the right set of people. What does that mean? Is that a targeting problem? Are you kind of, is your ads to baity where you're kind of attracting the wrong set of audience so you know just making those tiny changes before shutting the entire system down yeah is what I recommend as you know kind of changing your entrepreneurial brain to work that

way yeah it's always that keep it simple strategy I think I think it's just I think if you had to describe what you do as just the simple changes make a big difference and, and just really having that mindset and adopting that mindset is super, super important. Do you have any other scenarios that you'd like to share when it comes to reoccurring problems that you've been seeing yeah absolutely so uh this is one thing that i've definitely seen which would really impact a business financially so most often you know remember how we said you know sales is the last thing that you're supposed to outsource so um what sometimes happens is once you figure your lead generation problem, once that is sorted, and you're getting quality leads, then your immediate every business owners immediate

next step is, hey, I've got to get a salesperson on I'm getting leads, I can't keep getting on the sales calls. Wrong. Step one is, are there enough sales assets that you've built before you bring somebody on? What I mean by that is, do you have a bank of call recordings that somebody can start off with just to understand what the business is about? Are you using a CRM, which is efficient enough? So if somebody were to come in, they exactly know where the last lead was at which stage was that and if you're not using a crm you first need to get a crm and improve your tracking really because tomorrow it's very easy for the salesperson to come and say the leads are bad how are you going to prove that right so um tracking how what's the close rate when you were closing the sales and how is that going to get

impacted with somebody else closing it and you know going a lot deeper as to so get your sales systems in order before you bring somebody on and the first step usually is to bring a salesperson by themselves the first thing you're supposed to do is try to bring a setter so what i mean by a setter is have somebody call all your leads to pre-qualify them before you get on the call with them because if you were getting 10 leads a day and you had five calls that day maybe all five are not really qualified to you know work with you because they don't have the money they don't have the need they don't really know who you are so maybe they're a bad fit at that stage so instead

of you wasting your time trying to get on a call with everybody, you could have your setter check if you know they're a good fit or not. And that basically is one of the hardest lever to pull. Because as an entrepreneur, you're like, I want to get on the call with everybody, maybe I can help them. So it's very important to have a curation rate, which means how many, your curation rate should be really around 50 to 60 percent where every lead that comes through you're not kind of talking to 50 to 60 percent of your leads because they're not a good fit you rather spend your time money energy on the leads that are going to become customers because those are the people who have money to spend so get a setter first once you get a setter train them enough so that they could kind

of become your salesperson because when a setter is working with your business he slowly understands what it's supposed to what it takes to be a good salesperson because they are kind of checking the leads are a good fit or not you see how you know instead of trying to bring a salesperson straight away now you have systems in place. You have a setup. You're going step by step. So tomorrow when you bring in a salesperson, everything is measured. Everything is tracked and nothing breaks, but more business is coming through.

Yeah. I think it's such a great optimizing technique. I think even our initial call, I was laughing so hard when you pointed out for me because I was just complaining, oh my God, I'm not sure if my clients are just getting qualified leads and like, how do I handle that? Like, well, just get them pre-qualified. Thank you. That was such an easy solution.

And I think it's such a great idea what you said about like the optimization part when it comes to you handling the sales calls, right? But then even that could go through initial filtering before because obviously, if you have luckily 60 calls, you would probably get some calls that are not a good fit and that could easily be filtered if you had an appointment center you could just contact them prior to make sure that's a good fit so you're already saving and optimizing your time and not even getting into a conversation right that's the idea exactly let's get detachment out of dealing with you. You're here, you're a business trying to help other businesses. And you can't get on the mindset of going into the optimizing, automating journey. Because I think a lot of business owners, and maybe I can speak for others when I talk about myself, I had a really hard time even delegating certain tasks because I feel like, well, I'm the only person who can do that task you know and I feel like well by giving out and I think I can talk to a lot of business owners that I feel like

they need to stay involved because if they don't someone's going to mess it up for them so what kind of like a mindset shift would you be telling those people who are just fearful of letting go because they're just so afraid that's going to be messing up their whole business yeah you know that's that's a problem every entrepreneur has but exactly so I had that too because I always thought I'm special nobody can do it as well you know yeah that's it yes it's not that you're special but, but it's like you care the most about your business. And somehow no one else can be that enthusiastic, right? Like you are.

Right, right, right, right, right, right. So you're right. But you have to understand as a business owner, you have 24 hours a day, out of which you're probably going to sleep eight hours, which is going to slowly subtract the number of hours you're going to work out, which is recommended so that you can run a healthy business. But really, don't start off with the complex tasks, start off with the easy tasks. You know, once you have your messaging, having your way reach out to people on LinkedIn, it's not different. It's not too, it's not too customized each time. It's the same thing. So try to start off with the repetitive tasks. And over time, you also have to bring in a qualified talent. Like if you're going to bring in a media buyer, you're going to hire a quality media buyer. And when you have the money to spend and you price correctly, you can bring in quality talent. And that's when you will be confident about, you know, okay, I can pass on

this piece of cake to this person. And I know they can kind of take care of it and sops always have sops document every single thing you're doing so that your there is a benchmark of how to deliver the product right and over time it's only going to be improving your sops so you know the experience gets better and better um just maybe it's a it's a pro tip can you you give us perhaps some ideas on creating SOPs and like maybe a tool or even a software or something where people can use to kind of manage that part of their business? Do you have any idea for that suggestion? Yes.

So I always do believe tools, there's no tool which is going to be as efficient unless and until you use it so you could start off with something as basic as a google doc and kind of just write down what are the things that you're doing document it every single day for the next one week and see hey audit your day basically see okay i get up at this time this is what i'm doing this is what i'm doing this is what i'm doing and over a week you will definitely know okay these are repetitive tasks these could be outsourced and you know over time you'll have your sop which is getting fine-tuned then you could get a little more complex then you could think of okay can i put this in asana

can i put this in notion can i put this in clicker because everything or trello all of these are just softwares and until you're going to use it it's really not going to help you so start off with something basic don't get don't make it complex yeah okay thank you thank you so much i think i'm going to take your advice already because i'm like okay so tell us your secret is it a sauna like what is it anyway it's a google doc i'm like oh yeah it makes perfect sense thank you so much i feel like i'm going to be like hey kirtan i need your coaching because i need something simple can you tell me what the simple solution is because i feel like it's just you're just so good at just seeing like the obvious like for us like it's not because like oh maybe it's like a you're just so good at just seeing like the obvious, like for us, like

it's not because like, oh, maybe it's like a high end software, like 300 bucks a month. And it's just, oh, it's just a Google doc. Maybe that's all shit. Yeah. Just put the test down and then that's the SOP. Exactly. Exactly. It's like brain overthink.

Yeah. Oh my God. Crazy. Um, so, um, can you tell a bit more what you do like what are you doing exactly like how you can help people and and just let them know because it's awesome what you do but it's just super complex as well like like seeing through all the processes so what exactly are we helping businesses with right now yeah so uh that's a great you know i i try to simplify it because i think if i can make a trial understand it then it's easy right that is really

good so at the moment what i'm trying to do is i am trying to help business owners who already have product market fit who are in 50k to 100k month, and who are kind of strapped for time, because they're kind of trying to manage every single thing, I want to kind of become their COO or CTO kind of try to help them run the business, essentially being the integrator of the business. So they could get back to being the visionary and work on, you know, the bigger picture things. And for everybody else i plan to start a youtube channel and i plan to kind of blog around topics like this so uh i i am one person i can't work with everybody but what i can try to do is try to help as many as possible just by you know having this conversation you probably had a little ideas with okay she's right why am i complicating this yeah you know just

just getting your gears moving in the right direction so for that they could definitely go ahead and check out my website and you know check out the content that I put out so just to dissect the two and talk about it with this YouTube channel I think honestly if you ever start a YouTube channel it should be keep it simple stupid i think that would be the name something keeping it simple with kirtana or something just for you maybe i don't know that's a great name yeah because it's so i think it's just the tiny tasks that you really can look at and be like oh my god you're right am I complicating this? I think you have such a great vision for that

and just have the ability to see that and not going into crazy details, right? So I think that that's your superpower. I was just looking at something and like, hey, a Google Doc, okay? So that's really, really good. So just a pro tip. I think that would be really good to do that um

but talking about your your your job as an integrator um for businesses you said you are you want you want to work with like 50k 200 so definitely that's a that's a it's a well-established uh business um and and then really make sure that the owner is the visionary and not stuck in this cycle right that's what we're saying yes um and uh do you like do you have like a team for that or just you and you for now because that seemed to me like a very hard daunting task to take that on as a cto or coo yes yes so at the moment i'm going solo because i really want to prove that this makes complete sense yes and which is why i can only work with a handful of entrepreneurs probably it's going to be one or two in the beginning just to find their bottlenecks help them work on that and you you know, move from there. And maybe over time, once I have an SOP of my process, then I

could bring in a team to help more people. So the idea is, again, not to complicate it, not to try to get five clients and not have product market fit. The idea first is to prove the concept, ensure this transformation, and collect case studies, and then slowly SOP it out and bring the team to help you so yeah that's where I'm at at the moment yeah that's so I wish you good luck I think that's a really good thing that you're that you're taking on it's also like a super daunting one so so working with you um are you also like this is essentially a consulting role that you would be taking in in like a business right uh not so much a consulting role it's gonna be more uh part of the business because i'm gonna uh i'm gonna be a contractor in the business but how an ad agency

takes care of the media buying side effect i am I am going to be the integrators trying to constantly look for the bottlenecks, which are kind of limiting money or kind of wasting the business owner's time. So these are the two metrics always. Does it save time? Does it make money? And if the problem does not do either of this, we're not going to look at this problem. We're going to come back to it.

So that's the idea. I feel like every business needs you. Every business needs your integration or operational. It's just, yeah, I would be like, okay, each business needs Kirtana because she can look at it and be like, okay, guys, we don't need this. We don't need to remove this. We need to outsource that. I think so you are taking on a big big challenge i think um if you could call on yourself i think that would be great

yes until technology gets there yeah um hopefully soon um but again also um i wanted to ask you about kind of during, before that call, before our call, you spoke about a free masterclass that you made for, for the listeners that they can go to kind of get more solutions on the bottlenecks of the businesses. Can you talk more about that as well? Like you prepared for the listeners? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So like I was talking to you, I did a video, I was like, it's not the most perfect, but we have this chat as to hey,

perfect is just progress. It's amazing. I watched it. I learned so much already. Oh, that's awesome. That's awesome. You got the early sneak peek. Yes. So the idea with this whole lead magnet or this masterclass really is to basically help people see what the symptoms are, which are killing a business. And when you can see the symptom, because it's not like flu, right? It's not like you're going to keep coughing. it's not like you're going to keep coughing it's not like you're going to be sick it's just going to be ill and when you start understanding oh this is a bottleneck oh this is a bottleneck oh this is a bottleneck then as a business owner you are more informed as to okay these are the pillars that I'm really supposed to look for in my business if I strengthen this the business automatically is stronger the

foundational elements so the idea is to kind of I've laid down 14 bottlenecks you know that could either make that could either you know make or break your business or really slow down your growth and i would definitely recommend everybody to check it out and give me your feedback really is that a bottleneck that's troubling you and how are you dealing with it if that is what it is yeah okay so listeners go to kirtana's um website we're going to include that in the description i think so everyone can go check it out and just listen to the 12 bottlenecks um and tell us what you think tell us if it's really something that is a problem for you and what do you think about her approach um also, I think just for the listeners,

because you mentioned that right now you're only taking a limited amount of clients because you want to make sure that once you take someone, you're really, really immersing yourself to helping them kind of solve the problems. Do you still have openings for this month or next month?

Do you still have availabilities to take on clients or you are completely maxed out and just for anyone who wants to to have you to look at their businesses right now so at the moment I am looking to work with one or two so there is definitely that opening and the reality of it is it's not like a monthly opening of sorts right like once i start my business it's a recurring thing because it's not like problems are going to show up in jan and not in fed okay thank you for putting me back to my yeah so i definitely do have openings for one or two yes Yes, you do. Okay. So have you thought about like how long does the process of working with you would be like then?

If it's not like, obviously I'm coming from the agency or whatever, I would like do one month, two month complaints. I'm like, okay, do you want to do like three months, five? But it's like, it's a really monthly, it's a monthly engagement. So that's why I'm like thinking in months. But obviously you're so right. It's not just the problem comes and goes it's it's either comes and goes but then it still is a problem right

that you need to come in and help solve so how would that be looking like essentially if you started working with an ex-company tomorrow that would be like a an engagement right in monthly engagement or like reoccurring so yeah that's a great great question so my idea really is to work with a business for at least 6 to 12 months to really scale them to the next level and if they do scale their problems are going to get better and more improvised so I want to the vehicle I'm going to choose right now is going to be a business which is really looking to grow and has has the same hunger that I have because if they don't want to scale and they want it to be a lifestyle business me going in there is not going to help them but if

they really want to scale and that's they want to get the owner wants to get back to being a visionary and not working 70 to 80 hours a week definitely bringing me on will help them uh because yeah i work in the business they work on the business and timeline wise it's hard because they could be at 100k and maybe in six months they could be at 200k then it could be that maybe we have to come up with new offers to test product market fit so yeah which is why i really want to blog in youtube about this so it can help more business owners. And I don't want entrepreneurial burnout to be the reason you quit your business. Yeah, that's awesome.

Thank you for helping all business owners. Do you have like, you mentioned already, I think we can wrap this up by saying this, but you mentioned already the fact that you want to work with business owners that are committed to um to change and to grow and find out and how to fine-tune their businesses to avoid burnout um so that's one qualifying like for your ideal clients that you want to work with that you already mentioned the 50 to 100k a

month right and the fact that they they want to they need to be on board with growing your businesses and accepting the fact that it's going to be a long-term engagement not just like a quick quick like there there's a solution but no so it's like really in an ongoing six months to 12 months engagement. Do you have any other qualifying traits that you're looking for in your ideal client? Product market fit. And, you know, the price point they are at, because it does not make sense to bring in an integrator too soon, because probably the business can't afford it at that stage. And there's not too many operational problems to deal with. And really somebody who's collaborative in the beginning, because I can come in as an integrator, but in the beginning, you're supposed to be my eyes and

ears of the business. And I don't want to change something too quickly to disrupt the business, because that's not why I came in here so in the beginning uh every business owner I'm going to work with has to be collaborative it cannot be that they said hey we hired you why don't you fix this it doesn't work that you know I need you to sit with me so I kind of understand the ropes of your business so then you know you could leave me and then I could kind of take it forward. Yeah, so you need that collaborative. It's not just outsourcing you that, okay, you've exit, but really being bored and wanting to change that aspect as well.

Okay, I think that's really important. And you really also understand when you get on a call with them, the chemistry that you have. Because some business owners are extremely egoistical and they don't want to change anything in that. You think it's perfect, right? It's already perfect. I don't know what you want to change anything in that you think it's perfect right it's already perfect i don't know what you want to change i know right what are you gonna do so uh yeah i mean if they're not ready to change too quickly it's it's it's always a bad fit so

you have to have the chemistry to kind of you know want to change and move to the next level yeah so you're also very very selective of who you work with it's kind of you know want to change and move to the next level yeah so you're also very very selective of who you work with it's not everyone you also want to make sure that chemistry is there and the right fit and that's your own the qualifying process of who you want to work with like you're also very selective I think that's important to be to be selective with that as well yeah because we I see it as if I'm going to pick a bad business and I'm going to waste my time for them I'm probably you know I could have helped a real business owner who could kind of move their business forward and I just wasted my time and

the business owner's time and you know this other person just lost out because I couldn't work with them um so I wanted to talk to you about the fact that you said you want to avoid entrepreneurial burnout, essentially. So do we have to wait until we get to that point? Or what are the signs that someone is getting burned out? Like, what do you think are the telltale signs that, okay, I need to have someone to look at this whole thing because it's too much? Like, what are the signs according to you? The number of hours you're working are you working on your weekends are you accessible to your clients 24 7 i'm looking at you don't i i stopped no i didn't i'm still i'm still doing calls in the weekends but i'm getting better

because i i'm start I stopped replying at midnight. Okay. I stopped doing that. That's great. That's a start. Yeah. So definitely that. And you know, you are probably at your kid's football game, but you're not at the game. You're immediately checking your phone if you have emails or, you know, is there any files that you must put out that is a telltale sign for sure and stress really like do you have trouble sleeping are you are you are you stressing too much are you worried about where the next payment is going to come through i think really you will know because you're probably just going to be so invested in your business and uh yeah

workaholic is not a very good name because yeah i mean so basically set boundaries and your business is supposed to make you money it's not supposed to drain you out if that's the case get a job it's gonna pay you more so when you start thinking like that then you kind of start building your business like that yeah i wanted to say okay maybe if one of your eyes start twitching and like you're losing hair that's like a that's like a child in a sign but like yours is so much better no yours is better for sure for sure you know I used to have this doll which had that problem so that's when you started pushing and I'm to have this doll which had that problem. So that's when I started fishing. And I'm like, okay, this is good.

Yeah, I don't know. It's just like when you are like super irritated, no one can, hey, hello, come out. Like, I think I'm so guilty of that because my friends are not even inviting me out anymore. They're like, I know you're not coming. We call you out it's just we know the answer already i think it's just so bad yeah i think you start with 12 slowly move

to five i mean okay maybe that's too much start with 11 then move to 10 and move to nine so you know you'll start slowly being appreciable post five and the reason this is so important is because it plays like if you don't have goods like business is a marathon it's not a sprint and if you work 20 hours one day that's going to spill over and you're going to be less productive the next day and how are you going to continue on this marathon if you don't sustain your energy so yeah you got to really conserve and preserve yeah for and i think that was super important when you said like just keep those tasks that are most important in your business and and try to see where you can outsource and when you outsource make sure you start with the smaller tasks and

just really trying to build up that confidence of even outsourcing i think that's for some business owners that's just a huge step to take right away right so i think that those are super super important what you said about just step by step and looking at um the issues um and trying to delegate to smaller ones and then slowly do it go up scale up um do you also do consultations i wanted to ask you this like because you said you do you do this integrating work um what if someone just wants you to be not like a long term but they have one issue one specific issue can they turn to you and how that would look like? I would definitely be open to doing consultations. But where I see a problem with that is, you know, if they are already too strapped for time, and they can't

execute, that would be a problem. As long as somebody can execute whatever I'm kind of telling them, I'll be happy to help them out. I'll definitely be happy to jump on a call just to be their business therapist and be like, hey, tell me what business problem is affecting you. What's business problem you're experiencing today? Yeah. Do you see that often? Do you see that often, though, that you somehow went in, given advice, and no one did anything about it?

And how do you process that? Is it like something that frustrates you when someone is just not taking the advice that you give them? Yeah, so I think before I quickly would judge them, I'd probably talk to them and say, hey, what's happening? Like, is there something that's not right in your life? Like, is there a pressing family issue,

a personal issue really, that's kind of, you know, preventing this action? Why are you laughing? I just imagine like my cat is, I don't know, not feeling well or something. I just think I have like pressing family issues. Like my dog is like not feeling good. I don't know. That's why I'm not doing, know what is said to me makes sense makes sense so uh

so that would be my next question but uh really I would try to dig deep I would try to see hey is this really a contextual problem like Like, is it a timing problem? Or is it just that you're lazy and you think this is a waste of time? So the sooner we get to that, it's easier for me to say, hey, maybe you're not ready for change. And usually, you know, it's not that they're not ready for change. People are not ready for big change. Like they've built a baby from scratch.

And the last thing they want is somebody to kind of dress their baby up so I understand it's not something that you want so that's why I would start off with the tiniest change which is so easy to do and you know it's not really hard it's like one push-up so that's what I'm going to ask for in the beginning and try to get the momentum going rather than you know throw something bigger than and expect because i wouldn't do a big task to like the activation energy is too much so start small and if they still don't do that then i'm gonna be like hey maybe we're not a good fit do you feel that i was gonna be like oh do you feel like entrepreneurs lie a lot when you try to dissect the problem and deflecting

like well no that's not you know that's not the issue I do feel like there that there needs to be like a sense of honesty like in the working relationship where they are like vulnerable in sharing what are those issues and not just be like oh I'm good I'm fine you know it's all it's just perfect and then and the whole thing is collapsing and in the back and I do you feel like that's hard to achieve that kind of like trust with entrepreneurs yeah so this is literally like you know going on a date with somebody so if on the first date you're gonna ask them for the hand in marriage they're gonna freak out they're gonna be like hey I don't even know you yeah so you start off small you take them out for dinner and you know you probably see if you have good chemistry and then you kind of ask for a

second date so that's really the way I would approach a relationship as well I would not come in and you know try to win your trust from day one I don't expect you to trust me 100% because you really haven't seen my results so I would kind of get the first result and kind of build my trust equity with the owner over time so they could let their guard down because obviously there's going to be that little bit of resistance in the beginning and I understand that's a human thing so I don't want to fight it I want to kind of you know swim with the water swim with the current not against the current yeah I think that's a really good one that's a good analogy the first date you don't ask someone to marry you yeah exactly and then building that trust that that

gradually comes and then perhaps they would open up more and get more vulnerable with you because I think without that aspect of being honest with about their business and about their sales and about their situation I think without it you cannot help them right we have to know exactly exactly and the way to kind of double check their honesty is if they come back and hey, I tried email marketing that didn't work. So the first question would not be, okay, let's move on to the next thing. I would be like, did you track your numbers? What did your numbers look like? Can we look at that? And if they say, hey, no, I didn't track it correctly. So I'm going to be like, hey, that's a tracking issue. Can we fix that first? So, you know, start smaller where it's not such a big issue, but they get it because i'm logically explaining it to

them without saying no you're wrong so yeah that's so good that's so good so basically instead of telling them okay that's not you're wrong but that you're trying to lead them to the solution by asking questions and then detecting letting them figure out like by themselves it's not like no you know what someone's claiming well i did everything and it didn't happen okay name me 10 thing that you did okay i did like five things okay name the five things right and just like okay i guess i just did one and it didn't work well like it makes sense when you go to depth and just letting them figure it out instead of just be you putting them in the blast and be like that didn't you know that didn't work yeah for sure yeah i mean numbers don't lie you could lie numbers don't lie so that's what we always

rely on yeah that's so true that's so true they can's so true. They can't, unfortunately. They have to have just the fact. Have you always been working with numbers in your career? Because you mentioned a lot the numbers and the figures and how they don't lie. And how do you trust the hard data? Have you always had this kind of approach to look at things logically and rationally instead of trying to understand an emotional part of things so i think uh in the beginning this is a great question because you know it takes me back to when i was you know starting off in this entrepreneurial journey in the beginning obviously i made a lot of mistakes was not this data driven i was data

driven on the marketing side of it because that's what I was doing I was doing media buying on Pinterest and that's the part I was really data driven but I was not data driven on the business side of it and over time I understood how you have to just basically take the same skills of your marketing and apply it to your business because if you're not getting one percent ctr you know there's something that this is a creative problem or a targeting problem yes but if you know you have all of you're not making consistent money what is the reason for that money is really a measure of how much how successful you are in your business or not so is that consistent you know so basically being data driven is what is gonna it's the

black and white really of life like if you otherwise emotions are extremely great and all i'm trying to say is try to make business black and white because it's simple business is simple as long as you're making more money than what it's costing you you're profitable so it's simple math really yeah i think it's a great way to look at it and without getting into the emotions of yes but i love this idea so much yeah but the idea is not showing results so you might as well try something else right um i think i remember even um just because i just had this thought in my head, I think with Elon Musk, when he founded SpaceX,

they said the chance of success was 3%. They calculated the chance of succeeding of the company, and that was 3%. And even going to the business knowing that you have three percent to succeed is very very bulky but it did work out so so do you think that because sometimes even though there are hard data that could still be a chance of things working out at the end like what is your take on that uh for sure for sure because uh we are in the online business world and definitely with covid and everything everything's moving more and more

online so whenever i'm speaking about anybody with you know being an integrator i always am thinking about the online business world and really the pillars really stay the same. So if I were to apply everything I know to an offline business, maybe I could help them in a few areas, but not really scale because an offline business can only take so many customers. So there is definitely clear indicators with how successful you're going to be. You can look out and see are there other people selling the service are they making money and spacex is one of a kind right like there's no other business for spacex to kind of compare against yeah but all of our businesses are not that unique unfortunately so it's easier for us to get a little more data and starting

point but uh only thing that's important is product market fit like if you can identify that your offer is going to make essentially go back and solve people's problems like zigzag says right if you provide value to enough people enough people will value you so uh really solve problems that's what people pay money for um um i wanted to ask you about um because you are in the digital marketing space and i think if you could uh agree with me this space is extremely it's moving extremely fast like it's really hard to keep track of the new trends and everything is moving so fast um like what do you do to kind of keep up with the trends? And what do you think where the future is headed, especially with Facebook? Because I've been

hearing people all the way up Facebook is bad, you know, and moving into different platforms, like what do you think about that as far as the future goes in digital marketing space? So to answer the first part of your question, the way to kind of keep in check with trends is to obviously invest in programs with good masterminds. So you have other people in the same space and you could always verify

what's really coming up, what's not coming up. And also kind of just follow the platform's blog. Like Facebook has their own information center where you could kind of dig in to see what they're up to, which really are signals as to where the platform is heading. And I don't know if Facebook is going to die because a lot of businesses are still making a lot of money from it. So the ones who are probably seeing this are people who are not making money from Facebook. Yeah yeah don't pay attention to

them and I think where this is going to go I recently I think just today I read an announcement by Mark Zuckerberg where he wants to launch something called Metaverse which really is the virtual reality side of things where I could really be having lunch with my friends together with my you know glasses so a black mirror is getting real yeah that's scary that's I have to look that trend up like that the idea up because that's just I haven't heard of it but it sounds like a black mirror episode yes definitely exactly right like he wants to have offers there people could buy stuff people could go dancing people could go on dates essentially this is he says inspired from the pandemic because people are not stepping out but i don't know where it's gonna go so like facebook is either

trying to make things work or they're trying to buy businesses which are making it work so facebook is here to stay and the foundations of business really stay the same uh kind of grab the people who are your customers through attention bring them into your ecosystem and then you know uh give them an opt-in it's very simple the basics stay the same but it's only the platform which changes and that is something you don't have to worry too much about at least at this stage yeah i think you're right um i think we can just start wrapping up soon um but what would be one piece of advice that you would give to that burnout that struggling business owner right now just where to start like what would be that would that be what would that advice be

okay okay that's a great question it's a thinker for sure so uh it's really hard so what what really worked for me when i was really stressing was i think uh you have to start having more preventive approaches like i started meditating and that made a huge difference to me and i've been meditating for over a year and now I started doing psychotherapy thanks to you so have healthy practices if it's very hard when you're in the loop to kind of break away from it but however if you're in the loop reach out for help if it's too difficult for you to handle talk to a therapist talk to somebody else be part of a good mastermind where you can reach out to coaches and ask them questions if you're stuck because these are people who already kind of walked uh the same path and are ahead of you in the game and uh maybe sometimes just turn off everything and

don't respond for two days your business is not going to die your clients are going to understand you could always just say it as an emergency firstly just get your footing back yes and once you get your footing back then you can kind of look at your problem in new light but don't go continuously with high stress days that's gonna break you sooner than you think yeah thank you so much and thank you so much for being here and then having this first conversation with me i think there was a so much there's so much value that you've given us and for the listeners as well. And we have to do like a summary of everything for people to be able to read as well. Do you have, do you have a website that you can give us? What's the name of your website? You can give us that as well. So, or an email that people can

contact you if they want to um can you give us just your contact details in general for the listeners so the website is just my name it's kirtanadevta.com and my email address is info at gethelpsthavetime.com so my digital agency is ghst digital which is get help safe tax i'm using the same email address so info at get help save time.com yeah and so they can uh are they able to um book a call with you or they can email you right away and if they want to contact you right so currently i do have a booking page on my website so you could book a call with me there however if you know that gets taken off or once i kind of find a few good clients then it's going to be hard. Then maybe it's better to reach me in email.

So thank you so much, Kirtana, for being here. I'm going to leave your email and availabilities and contact details in the description. So make sure that you contact Kirtana. She is amazing. need help with optimizing, automating, and just someone who looks at your business and tells you exactly where you can do and do better and optimize those part of your business. So just contact her. She knows her work really well.