Omnichannel - Wayne Ledoux- How to Pivot Your Business?

Episode Date: September 13, 2021

Send us a text“Fortune is built on the back of repetition not the back of innovation.”- A quote from Wayne that is super important.In this episode you can learn about:How to pivot your business?How to organically generate leads and why its an awesome way to test your service first?The future of Facebook ads and one big mistake most marketers make?Email marketing will make a big comeback?And much, much more, come join is!Get a FREE Copy of the High Converting Online Events Book: https://book.dominikalegrand.com/

Welcome, everybody. You are listening to the Omni Channel podcast, a podcast from digital marketers to digital marketers. I'm your host, Dominique Caldegrant, and my mission is to help fellow marketers and entrepreneurs to grow their businesses online. So buckle up and let's get started. hi you guys i'm so excited to be having way on this episode and i cannot wait for each and every one of you to listen to this episode he has been offering super valuable information for every single one of you we talked about how to pivot your business we talked about how to pivot your business. We talked about how to organically generate leads and why it's an awesome way to test your offer first. We talked about the future of Facebook ads and the one big mistake a lot of Facebook advertisements make when it comes to advertising. We also talked about

a very underrated email marketing and how it is going to make a huge comeback, and many, many more interesting, insightful topics. So if you are interested, please keep on listening. Thank you so much for being here, Wayne. Lovely to have you. Thanks for having me, Donnie. So can you please tell me about how do you get started? And how do you make that shift in your, on your own business when you quit your job and just tell us the story, tell us the listeners, your story. Well, a lot of people always ask me, they say, Hey, you know you really took a big leap when you, when you got out on your own and you know, how did you do it? And it's one of the biggest questions that I get from,

you know, my friends and my, my old coworkers and things like that. And, um, to, to put it bluntly, um, when I left my last job, it was back in 2016. I left that job with about $2,500 in the bank account, a pissed off wife and a two-year-old, uh, some, some people, some people be like, man, you've got a lot of balls, but really, to be honest, I've got a lot of experience. I've been in digital marketing in one way, shape or form since 2008. And what I did is I literally, I took the experience that I had and I applied it to real world situations. And the last job that I actually had was working at a solar company. And what I had done is I had taken their entire marketing department and I had kind of flipped it up on its head. So it's kind of a long story, but I'll

condense it as much as I can. A lot of companies, especially large ones, they'll buy, they'll pay third-party lead generators for third-party leads. And that's what these companies were doing. And I came in and I said, hey, what are we doing? Like we should be built, we should be generating our own leads. It's a lot cheaper, it's a lot more cost effective. Within about a year of working with them, I had doubled their sales, more than doubled their sales. We, in October of 2015, they had two sales guys running the leads that were coming from these third-party companies. And they had sold 10 of the packages that this company sold. The next month, they had sold 27. Wow. So, and that's just based off of the marketing that I did. Um, I was like, Hey, we're onto something here. We should be selling this to other companies.

So we started doing that and come to find out when, when, when I had made that shift into selling it to other, other solar companies, um, they were, he was paying companies, he was making more in one month than he was paying me in a year. Yeah. And so that kind of lit the fire under my ass. And I said, hey, I should be doing this for myself. And so I literally, I just left. And because I didn't have a budget to do any marketing myself, I just had to make things happen. I networked, I went to Chamber of Commerce, I cold called and here's the thing about it

is that for the first six months of your business, you really have to be all in, you have to grind, you have to make sure that you're 100% on the ball. Now, here's the thing that a lot of people miss is that once you get a little bit of a budget or once you get a little bit of a following under you, you need to be able to turn that into leverage. And that's really the key that turned me from just being a freelancer into an actual agent. So by the time that I had done that six

months, I was making about 10 grand a month in San Diego. If you're making 10 grand a month, sure. That's fine, but you're paying your bills, but you're not doing anything else. It's expensive to live in California. Yeah. So what I did is I took that 10 grand a month and I invested, I invested it into a program that I felt really confident in. So, Oh, I know what program was that. Yeah. So just find it that my, my biggest advice to people is, is fine. Take the money that you're making once you're comfortable. And once you can pay the bills and make everybody in your family happy, take that little bit of extra cash that you have and turn it into leverage. And the leverage that I found was this program that I, that I invested in and it taught me how to not only turn my audience into

traffic and eyeballs onto my programs, but how to generate inbound leads. Because my wife and I, we'd stayed up all night at the point that I was making 10 grand. And I had, I had created this program that I called operation no more cold calls. Oh, wow. Yeah. So tell me more about that as well. Yeah. Um, well it's, it's still up on my whiteboard. It was more of an idea than anything else. And Facebook was a stalker and it literally took my conversation and it showed me ads that

were related to my conversation somehow. Um, but what ended up happening was I had, instead of having the cold call, I built a funnel. I made inbound traffic. I paid Facebook and I paid Google some money to drive traffic to that funnel. And I created a way for me to automate that inbound traffic into appointments. Not only did that turn my business into an automated process, but I literally, I didn't have to cold call anymore. To this day, I have not made a single cold call. By the way, was that really hard to handle those rejections? Because I'm not sure if people like to be cold called on the phone these days. Yes and no. The thing about it is that first marketing job that I had back in 2008, it was a lot of cold calling. So that's kind of my background. And so I'm used to it.

Cold calling is not for everybody, but in today's day and age, there's a lot of ways to generate organic traffic. For example, right now I have a VA that does organic outreach on LinkedIn and Facebook. So there's a lot of ways to do that as well. That is something that I highly suggest. If you're making under $20,000 a month, you don't need to be doing paid traffic. You don't. Not in today's day. You can turn Facebook and LinkedIn into inbound sources as long as you have the drive that traffic to your funnel and you construct that funnel correctly, you can wake up to three to five appointments every single day without making a single cold call, which is what I did. Now I told you, it took me about six months to

turn to, to make, to turn about a 10 grand profit, right? Dummy. Yeah. I, once I created that inbound system and I used paid traffic. Yes. Two months later, I was at 30 K. What? Yeah. Wow. That's, that's what kind of leverage it takes to, to generate, to, to get into, into actual business for yourself. Um, now at the time we were doing solar, solar marketing and we had had done so we had done solar marketing all the way up until the pandemic.

When the pandemic hit, at least in America, I don't know how it was everywhere else but in America, solar companies weren't considered an essential industry for the first two months of the business. Of course. Okay, so that leads me into how to pivot, how to, how to pivot your business. Right. Now it does take a little bit of a lot. It does take a little bit of luck, but what they say is luck is when prior preparation meets opportunity. Yes. It's the slight edge. Yeah, exactly. I read that book. It's a me too. I love it. I love it so much. I actually just read that book not too often ago. Anyways, so what ended up happening was, and this just happened randomly. I had a friend that I had met for lunch one day. And he said, Hey, generate three to five appointments a day just by spending some money on Facebook ads. And I said, yeah. He said, okay, well, I have a friend that he's a coach. He sells a high ticket course and he's really not happy with where he's at with his

business. And he's not happy with the marketing company that he has. Can you talk to him? So I ended up talking to him and we just hit it off. And, you know, we ended up doing business together. This was probably a month or two before COVID hit. Okay. This is where prior preparation meets opportunity. Yes. COVID hits. Solar companies aren't considered an essential industry.

And we lose about 60% of our business overnight. Now, at the same time, this coach, I had turned his marketing around in 60 days. And he still, to this day, he generates about a 6.1 ROAS. Awesome. Yeah. From what he does. And so I took that prior preparation and I turned it into an opportunity and we shifted our business away from being a solar and roofing marketing company into being a high ticket coaching company. OK, and then because because we did so well with him, we got a referral to one of his friends. We built his entire program out. And then this guy, he generates about a three or four, depending on what his offer is. We're still, we still work with them and he's still working his programs out to this day, but he's kind of new into the coaching business. So again, just, just look at what you're doing, apply what you've done in the past to how you can leverage it in the future. And that's how you pivot your business. That's exactly how you pivot your business. Um, I I've seen, I've seen other guys do it and they're, they make way more money than I do. Um, but the, the way that you make more money than

what I do is you leverage other people's time. And then that's where the VA comes in. And that's where, um, that that's where you have people kind of like manage the processes that you don't necessarily need to do on a high level. And, um, that's actually one of the hardest things to do in my opinion. Um, do you mind sharing if you're still doing paid ads to drive traffic to your own business, or do you just solely rely on direct messaging on Facebook or LinkedIn prospecting with your VA? We do both. Yeah. So I always start with organic because the thing about organic is that the market's going to speak to you and you're not going to end up wasting a bunch of money. The worst thing you can possibly do is create an offer that you think is going to kick ass. And then the market's like, uh, no, that's not really the problem that we need solved.

Yeah. Um, so when it comes to being able to, to, to kind of scale things out, always start with organic and always start by researching and talking to the people that are in the marketplace that you want to serve. And one of the biggest things that I've learned over the past year and a half since COVID started

is the bigger the problem that you're solving, the more people are willing to pay for it. And everybody's always thinking about leads, leads, leads, people are willing to pay for it. Okay. And everybody's always thinking about leads, leads, leads, leads, leads, leads, leads. Well, why, why do people want leads to make more money? Yeah. And yeah. And they, they want to have more conversations the way they have more conversations that have more appointments, getting appointments as a bigger problem than, than getting leads. Yeah, obviously. Okay. And then getting sales is a bigger problem than getting leads. Yeah, obviously.

Okay. And then getting sales is a bigger problem than getting appointments. Oh my God. Can I ask this question? Because obviously I am in the same industry in a way that I also work with coaches all the time. And when the pandemic hit, some of the offline coaches

had to migrate to the online space and I've been working with coaches who have been successful over 20 years of coaching offline for businesses and now they have to go online the whole thing is just super overwhelming for them right and they don't know how to sell their own coaching and even if they have the book appointments, they are unable to turn them into actual paid customers. Do you have something that you suggest people to do like your clients as well? I'm sure it is an issue as well. Yeah. I mean, the, the biggest thing that I've seen people do. And, um, for, for me personally, my clients are actually good salespeople, which is rare. Yeah, that's a really good one.

I know, it's rare. So it's a good problem for me to have. But again, leverage other people's time. Find good salespeople. And don't pay the salespeople on just one sale commission. The way that you find really, really good salespeople is you can, you pay them not just on one sale, but on like a recurring. So what I find is that some of the best salespeople in the world,

they look for, they look for jobs and sales opportunities that will pay them a little bit on the, on that, you know, upfront sale, but then they'll also make residual month two and month three. And then that way they can stack it and stack it and stack it. And then that way they, all they have to do is sell 10 or 15 of these high ticket programs to make six figures a month or six figures a year. Yeah. Everybody's always looking. Most salespeople are always looking for that a hundred thousand dollars a year opportunity. That's really what that benchmark is. But go in leverage the good salespeople. And the one thing that I can tell you in regards

to salespeople is monitor them on metrics. I can't remember what the software is right now, but there's a software that- You can track what they do? Yeah, you can track what they do. You can track like every screen that they have and it'll take like screenshots of their screen, like everything. Yeah, yeah, I know that.

I'm familiar with that one, yes. Yeah, yeah. Because otherwise they slack off. They do. Take it from an ex salesperson myself. If given half of an opportunity, I will get off my sales call and I'll go watch a half an hour of a TV show or I don't know, play my guitar or whatever. Yeah. So again, number one, leverage other people's time. Number two, don't just pay them on

a single sale, pay them residuals as well. And then number three is monitor them because otherwise, yeah, exactly. I actually worked in sales as well. I worked for GE and I did like, oh, live sciences. And I had to call scientists to sell like very expensive lab equipment. So I knew my job at GE was eating ice cream and just not doing anything. And I have a few calls here and there. Yeah. Oh, and then the other thing is, too, is that have, have your, um, have your sales team be fed inbound because I will tell you as somebody that has both had the cold call and had inbounds, um, I, I always paid more attention to the inbounds. So once you build that system, that inbound system that generates you three to five appointments a day.

Okay. You're always going to want to be the number one salesperson before you only want to hire the salesperson after you get to the point where you're like, I can't do this anymore. I am overloaded. When you, when you fall down at night into your pillow and you pass out and you don't wake up for eight hours and you and then you've got to drink two cups of coffee to get back. And like one eye is twitching, right? Yeah. Yeah. Then that's when you want to hire the salespeople. And the thing about it too, is that you only want to hire one salesperson until you're ready to scale the ad spend that feeds that inbound system.

So I was talking to someone who talks about as well, optimizing your business. And she was saying that the last thing that you need to delegate is your sales calls, because no one is as enthusiastic about your business as you are. But I guess now we're talking about coaches that are generating leads, they have their booked calls. And when they show up to their own calls, it's obviously they don't know how to sell themselves necessarily. So I think that also requires initial training from your end to teach them how to close a sale. Because if you hire a salesperson to represent a coach,

that's already a bit of an issue right there. I don't know. What do you think about that? I think that you need to constantly be investing into yourself. Like me personally, I've probably invested at least. I've spent more on teaching myself how to run my business than I ever did on any college. And I spent four years in college. And college is expensive there, right? For us, it's free. Yeah. College is expensive here in America. Luckily, I have an advantage because I'm ex-military. I used to be in the Air Force. Before I got into marketing, I used to fix F-16s. Yeah. Uh, it's, I ended up in marketing on accident actually. It's it, that, that's a whole nother story in and of itself. Um,

when, when you fix F-16s, you can go into the civilian world here in America and you can uh fix commercial commercial airlines like United Airlines and things like that you can make six figures coming straight out of the gates and so when I went to college they said I said hey how do I make the most money and she said well you need to be an accountant I was like oh what no god I said okay what's next who said that to you as a teacher no no it was the guidance counselor um where I physically where I was they couldn't they couldn't license me it was just a geographic it was it was like I said it was an accident yeah um it was just where I was at the time and so I said well if I can't um it was just where I was at the time and so I said well if I can't fix planes then how do I make the most money and that's when she told me to be an

accountant and um well if you can't tell I'm a very expressive and uh excitable individual so accounting is not where I need to be um and she said well if you don't want to be an accountant then you should be in marketing I was like, well then let's give that a try. And so I went and I got my marketing degree. And when, then that's when we moved, my wife and I moved down to San Diego and that was yeah, 2008. And here in America in 2008 the the economy was in the trash yeah absolutely yeah it was awful it was shit yeah it was total shit and um so I just took the first job that was offered to me they hired me on the spot and um that was that first marketing job and for the first 90 days of that job I was going home to my wife saying oh my, my God, I'm going to get fired. I don't know what I'm doing. Like, I'm in over my head. Like, and I don't know, about 90 days in, it just something just clicked. And here we are 12 years later.

You're still in marketing. I mean, it's been a journey. Like I said, I'm lucky and I'm lucky that I didn't get fired. I'm lucky that I ended up in San Diego. I'm lucky that I took the leap into entrepreneurship. And I'm lucky that I had the opportunity to work for that coach that gave me that opportunity, um, right before the pandemic hit. Yeah. And, um, at the end of the day, uh, it takes, it takes determination. It takes, um, stick-to-itiveness. It takes, uh, there, there's a saying, I actually have it written on my white board. It says, fortune is built on the back of repetition, not the back of innovation. That's so true. It is. So you just, you have to keep at it. You have to keep doing it and you have to do it over and over and over again. And at this point, I've spent millions of dollars, not just on Facebook, but on Google,

on the native ads with Taboola and Outbrain. Obviously, Instagram is in the mix there as well. And it all works. You just have to do it. Where do you think this whole industry is leading? Because obviously you are in a space that's constantly shifting, that's constantly changing. And it's really not easy to keep up with the trends, right? We have TikTok, we have Instagram Reels.

Where do you think this whole thing is going next? And do you think Facebook has still a chance to be an effective tool? Facebook's not going anywhere. not in a million years? Well, I mean, maybe in a million years, if you put it literally, but look, here's the thing. Facebook, Facebook ads are where Google ads were about five or 10 years ago. And if you, if you look at like, everybody's like, hey, Google ads are more expensive. Well, yeah, because Google's been around longer. Facebook ads, the costs are going up. So what you have to be able to do as a media buyer and as a marketer and as an entrepreneur is be able to find ways to keep the costs lower than the cost of acquisition. And so many people, what they do is they, they only target the top 3% of their market.

Everybody's after the lead or the conversion or the sale. And I don't care what you sell. You could be selling widgets. You could be selling spaceships. Okay. If you, if you try to go after me and tell me, Hey, buy my shiny stuff, buy my shiny stuff, buy my shiny stuff, then it's going to cost. That's why, that's why they say that ad costs are rising is because 90% of advertisers are only going after that 3%. What you have to realize is that there's a whole bottom person. There's a whole bottom percent that they don't even know that if they have a problem, they don't even know if they want what you sell.

They don't even know about what you sell. They don't know you from John. And what you have to do is you have to be able to raise awareness. And so as far as trends go, it's on, it's on the backs of the educators and the, and the experts and the guys that have spent even more money on ads than I have, um, to, to educate people on, on the fact that they need to raise awareness before they ever even spend money on going after conversions. And so that's where I see the trends of the industry going is looking at different ways to raise awareness. Regardless of platform, don't get me wrong. I love me some TikTok. I'm on it

all the time, just goofing off. My wife and I were just laughing at something on TikTok the other day where it was a guy talking about talking with his wife. I don't even remember what it was about, but literally we laughed for a good five minutes on it. So you've got to be able to, and I think now more than ever as well, people need humor. People need to laugh because we've all been stuck indoors and we're all deficient of vitamin D at this point. We need humor. We need laughter. We need to smile. And so if you can find a way to make people smile, raise awareness for your products or your services and, and then, and then like retarget those people, then go after them with the buy my shiny stuff thing,

then you're going to win. Yeah. I think you're right in the sense that, and I think we have this training in as well in our, in our masterclass that talks about the bottom funnel, the middle funnel, top funnel, and how to kind of dissect your messaging of if you are targeting a cold audience, don't try to sell them the product right away because chances are they're not going to buy from you because they don't even know who you are right i think that's that's the mistake that you're making they don't know that that's what 90 of advertisers do today yeah it's insane yeah i mean at the end of the day you just got to be able to to be able to test. I hate that saying because it's so clicheically before you hit the paid ads, right?

Because that's really a way for you to test out if an idea works or not. Yeah. It's something that I learned from one of my mentors. It's what he calls the research method. Yeah. I did the same thing, actually. But before we get into that, do you have something that you truly fucked up when it comes to your marketing work,

tell me one fuck up the biggest fuck up. Oh, okay. So, um, yeah. All right. Um, so this, this is actually, uh, it was a, it was a one-off client that I had a while back. Uh, I was working with an econ client. It was a one product store that was designed. It was designed to, to help people without giving away too much. Cause I have an NDA with the client without giving away too much. It was designed to help with your athletic abilities. And one of the biggest things that I, that I let go was I let a, I let a, I let a campaign go too long because I believed that it would convert more frequently than it did. So what I mean by that, if you're dealing with large budgets, we're talking like, you know, 10 grand a day type of budgets or more, um, you can't let these campaigns go on too long.

And everybody's like, well, you need to give it time. I said, okay, well, I'll give it, I'll give it a few days. And it converted, it converted like a couple conversions in those few days. And I was like, okay, cool. And then I let it go a few more days and it didn't convert. And I was like, you know, I'm just going to let it go a few more days thinking that it would, it would have those conversions. And it didn't. And needless to say, there was a, there was a few grand that didn't necessarily need to be spent that should have been spent. So what I'm saying to you guys, if you're listening to this and you're a media buyer, make decisions and make them quickly and make them decisively. Especially if you're dealing with large budgets. It was a very hard lesson that I had to learn.

And thankfully, this was a few years ago. And I don't need to learn it anymore. But at the end of the day, um, like there, there's a lot of gurus out there that'll tell you, Hey, when you start a campaign, you need to let it run for at least seven days. Oh yeah. This is everyone says dad. No, fuck no i if it's me or or my va i tell my va if it's not converting within 48 to 72 hours kill it do you think that depends on the budget though because if you're burning 10k a day and it doesn't convert obviously would not let it run for a week no i i have a client right now that only has a 1500 a month budget and we're spending about $35 a day on one of his, on one of his campaign. And, um, it's, it's true on small budgets as well. If it doesn't convert on,

on whatever you're, whatever you're optimizing that campaign for, if you're not converting or getting sales or getting video or getting views on, on whatever you're trying to do, and you're not getting that within 48 to 72 hours, kill it. Okay. Well, that's good advice because, yeah, I think we've all been taught, you let it run. The system has to learn.

The learning period has to be over. And then after that, and if it's still not working. That's the mistake people make though, is that the learning curve and the learning stage isn't dependent upon the amount of time. It's dependent upon the amount of conversions. And so if the amount of conversions aren't meeting the KPIs that you and your client have set forth, then you kill it. Bottom line is what I've learned. Wow. Yeah. That's for me, that's news as well, because yeah, I've been told, okay, you need to keep it running. It's, you know, Facebook, it's a marathon. It's not our ways.

Have to give it time. I mean, I I've done it. I, I, I have tested this even in today with today. I have run low budget campaigns that I've let them run for seven days and I've let the same campaign run for three days. It happens 100% of the time. Okay. Well, that's good advice. Do you have something else that you see that is a huge mistake or misconception that you kind of learned by your own practice as well? Yeah. I mean, it kind of goes back to what I was saying earlier, just people going after the kill

right away is one of the biggest mistakes. Like a lot of the campaigns that we run today are based off of video views. And part of the reason that we do this is because of the iOS 14 update. Yeah. Everybody's worried about tracking and building audiences and all this, you know, yada, yada, yada. Whereas if I put out a set of videos that are, let's say 10 minutes long or five minutes long, and I have people watch 95% of that video, I know that they're interested in my product or my service.

Of course. Okay. Here's the key. I'm not taking them off of Facebook. So I don't have to worry about my pixel or my conversion API. Yeah. And then I can, I can build that audience. And as we all know, or anybody that spent more than a hundred dollars on Facebook ads, you can build an audience based off of people that have watched 95. Yeah, you can, you can build that audience. So if I, if I spend, let's say $5 a day on a series of 10 videos and and I see that people watch 95% or more of one video.

I know that they're interested in the topic that's on that video and the problem that that video is addressing. So I know to build more of that content. Okay. And then at the same time, I can also drive those people to my sales page. And those people are going to convert more consistently.

They're going to convert more frequently and they're going to convert cheaper for, for, for less money. Yes, of course, because they already know the product. They already familiar with the service. Exactly. And especially in today's day and age, people need to trust. Yeah. People, people have, people have trust issues because they've been burned. Everybody has a story about how they've been burned by a product or service. Everybody. Yeah. People, people have, people have trust issues because they've been burned. Everybody has a story about how they've been burned by a product or service. Everybody.

Yeah. And not only that, everybody's trying to sell you their service all the time. It's like people are getting desensitized at this point. Exactly. And so like, um, one of the biggest things that I teach people is educate people, build authority, and then do, do all of that on Facebook or Instagram. You don't have to worry about tracking and the iOS update and Apple versus Android and all that complication. That's, you know, the, the, when, when that whole thing happened with Apple, everybody lost their mind. Yeah. And it's because they're making that mistake of just driving the traffic off of, you know, build the audience, build the audience first. Now I'm not saying that it's going to solve all of your tracking issue problems. It's because it's not,

but what you do know by, by keeping those people on the platforms and building that authority and building that content and building that trust is that you have an audience that is interested, captivated, and will trust that product or service. Yeah, that's a really good advice. I think everybody is trying to get people into funnels and drive them off of Facebook and hoping for the best, right? Because once you are in the funnel, you kind of have to drop your email, right? And in order to look at the content, but if you are directly putting a video in front of someone and they watch the whole thing, then chances are that person is interested. Yeah.

That's a really cool, cool idea. Oh, and then that's, that's one more thing now that you say emails nobody's hardly anybody i know is email marketing yeah i think i'm so done with that i used to care more but i'm like at this point i'm like it's it's a it's a big mistake oh wow really yeah here's here's why number one if you have the email list, then, um, I have sent, well, I haven't sent, my VA has sent about a thousand emails. Hasn't cost me a dime and I've generated five appointments for it. And then, and then again, going back into being able to own the data, you can upload that data as we know in the Facebook, create audiences. Of course. Yeah. Retarget them. course yeah retarget them yeah retarget them so email marketing is something

that i think is going to and this is another trend as well i think email marketing is going to make a big comeback really i i was sold like a grand like a course just by email marketing they sold me a course i think back in 2016 and that was like wow like that sequence that they built with the email marketing was like holy shit I'm buying this I don't know what is it but I'm buying it and it doesn't and it doesn't cost you a dime to do yeah that's very interesting just just there's so many benefits to it and that you don't that even I didn't even think about until recently is that it doesn't cost you a dime. Because if you if you add that into your into your marketing, into your paid ads, into your all that other stuff that you do, just by being able to generate appointments and sales from that, you're automatically lowering your cost per acquisition. Yeah, of course. So what would you suggest for someone who's just starting

out? Sorry. So for somebody that's starting out, again, I would go back into the organic. I get a lot of value out of LinkedIn personally, but it's not for everybody. It's dependent upon your audience. I would, I would start by, by doing, by doing something on LinkedIn or Facebook or Instagram, depending on what your audience is. I would then start to build a list. I would do some email marketing based off of that list. And I would start putting out content every day. I got some really, really good advice from somebody that I really respect in the industry not too long ago. And it's about building out a content calendar. And so like for, I'm just going to read, I'm just going to read this off. So like on Monday, he does a transformation post, like selling the transformation that his products, um, provides on Tuesdays and

Thursdays. He does free trainings on how his service works on Wednesday. He does challenge. He does, he does a post that's, uh, challenging the limiting beliefs that prevent people from doing the posts or do you know investing into his services on Fridays he'll do it's testimonial and then on Saturdays he'll do like some sort of giveaway like comment if you want to if you want some kind of quality action basically yeah exactly exactly so if I'm going to, if I, if I had to start all over and I didn't have everything that I've built already, I would start by either doing Facebook or Instagram, Facebook or Instagram or LinkedIn, depending on what my product or service is. I would put out content and then I would, and then I would build my email list. That's where I would start. Yeah, that's a really good idea. Okay. That way you don't have to cold call the way that I did back in 2016.

By the way, do you have a way to get your email list? Like, or you just organically build yourself or do you have, you get your email list from someone or just, you just go to LinkedIn and scrape emails? I think there is a extension that you can scrape. Yeah, there's a ton of ways to generate emails. There's D7 Lead Finder that you can... Yeah, I heard of that, yeah. Yeah, it'll just build... With D7 Lead Finder, what it does is it just gives you like a CSV and a bunch of data.

And then you've got to use this tool called... Shoot, what's it? I think it's Cleanout. Yeah, Cleanout is like an app that you have. And then that'll translate all the data into actual like readable stuff. Put that into your CRM system, whether it be GoHighLevel or Close.io or PipeDrive or whatever. There's a million CRM systems.

There's no wrong answer when it comes to that. There's D7 Lead Finder. There's Lead Leaper, which you use when it comes to LinkedIn. It'll scrape emails from LinkedIn. there's a Google Chrome extension called link match that you can actually take your entire, anybody that you, uh, that you are connected to on LinkedIn, you can automatically put them into your, uh, your, your database just by clicking one button. There's a ton of different ways. And if you're, if you're like super engaged with your audience and you do like

a lot of Facebook connections and things like that, just message people and be really personable. You know, use a person, the thing that's, that's a lost art in today's marketplace is actually talking to people. So many people don't want to talk to people they just want to automate the process and you know again go back into buy my shiny stuff and that's just it's while while there is while there's room for automations and there's a definitely a place for it um it's so interesting because what i did back in the days that i i had to think about 10 coaches getting in a call with me just because I reached out to them via you know message I did a post in a group and just asking for coaches and what industry they are in and I immediately get a hundred answers and I just

reached out to every single one of them and 10 out of 10 said yes. And the rest of them haven't seen their emails, right? Or the message I sent them and getting into a call right away is so interesting. And my first approach was to just understand the why, why did they get into coaching? And if they have any issues with generating leads and how they're doing and, and just understanding their frustration. And then after that, using those frustrations and pitching that to a client who said, Oh my God, that's my problem. I need your help. So that was just organic and it worked really, really well. It's amazing. Huh? Dummy. Yeah.

It, uh, it's, it's like I said, it's, it's it's a lost art um so many people don't want to pick up the phone and so many people don't want to have a conversation and if you do that um you'll be surprised at the response you get especially i think on facebook because that's already a personalized connection like whenever you send someone a message and they accept to respond to your message you can call them you can call them on facebook like you have the ability to call them ring them up right away and i had people i'm talking via facebook calls as well yeah exactly i've even what i i've even gone so far as to like when somebody when i when I find like my perfect person, sometimes it happens to me every now and again, where I, I come across this person.

I'm like, oh my God, I want to work with this person. Right. two or three minutes, go through their website, go through their social media, you know, even at a very, very surface level and say, Hey, I, I, I was looking at this X, Y, and Z. And I noticed that you are doing this, this, and this really, really well, but I have clients that are also doing this. And I noticed you're not doing that. So I thought I'd reach out, send you a message and just find out if you'd be willing to sit down and have a 10 minute conversation with me. Record a video of that. Wow.

And just send that into an organic message. That's a loom video, right? How cool. A loom video. Yeah, you can do a loom video and then send it via Facebook Messenger or the Messenger on LinkedIn. It takes time.

And that's the key. That's what gets people's attention. Instead of they're like, hey, wait a minute, you took the time out of your day to pay attention to what I'm doing. To gather intel on what you're doing. It makes people feel heard. It makes people feel heard. It makes people feel wanted. It makes people feel understood. And especially in today's day and age, that's really all people want. So I think the moral of the story is to get really personal with people. There's a fine line. There's a fine line between personalization and automation.

And what's the fine line? What do you think is the fine line? It's on a sliding scale, in my opinion. As you grow in revenue and size of your company and, you know, managing your business and things like that, you're going to have less time. So you need to rely more on automations. But if you're small and you're just starting out, take the time to care. Just wanted to say thank you for being here. And thank you for the awesome advices that you give us that for the listeners as well. Yeah, thank you, dummy. I appreciate it. And if anybody needs help, you can always reach me at Wayne at mayhem digital media.com. Or you can always find me on Facebook. I'm there all the time and LinkedIn and I'm literally everywhere. I'm there all the time and LinkedIn and I'm literally everywhere.

I'm not hard to find. So yeah, well, make sure to link your contact details and your website as well for anyone who wants to work with you. I mean, I appreciate it. Thank you for having me very, very much. It was a pleasure and it was a blessing to be here. Thank you.

Thank you, Wayne. Take care. All right, you too. Bye-bye.