On Display with Melissa Gorga - Thank You For Noticing (w/ Terri Cole)

Episode Date: February 2, 2023

Boundary Boss Author Terri Cole joins Melissa to talk about rules of engagement, how boundaries and honesty are synonymous, knowing your deal-breakers, how to implement new boundaries into an established relationship, how we treat others to treat ourselves, when to give someone a second chance, and signs that you are walking on egg shells!

If they say you've changed, I always say, thank you for noticing. What's up, everyone? Today, I am very, very excited about this one. And I think this is someone that you guys are going to enjoy so much as well. So today on the podcast, I have a guest who are on a grande called magic and Liam Rhymes called a force of nature. Terry Cole is a psychotherapist, relationship expert, an author and a podcast host who is joining me today to talk about setting boundaries, finding happiness, and dealing with family. Hi, Terry. Welcome. Oh, hi, Melissa. Thanks for having me. I want to start off by saying that you did come out with a book last year, right? I mean,

you didn't. It's called Boundary Boss, which I love that name. I mean, it's the essential guide to talk true, right? Is that right? And to be seen and to finally live free, I'd love to get in on to that subject a little bit and just know what that is about, how that came about, give me a little bit about that book. Well, I think that boundaries are something. The reason I wrote it is because everybody struggles with them. And I became a boundary master or a boundary boss because I was a friggin disaster. Right. There was so much pain in my own young life for having disordered boundaries, not knowing what they were,

having no idea how to assert myself to tell people how I really felt. That was such a people-pleaser. I was so worried about people being mad or if people being offended. And then I became a psychotherapist after being a talent agent for many years. And I realized, oh, well, it isn't

just me, like every one of my highly capable women clients are having the same difficulty that I was having. I was like, wow, nobody teaches us how to do this. And so I just decided I started looking. I was like, what books are out there for this? And the truth is, there wasn't any that I was like, this is the one book. So I wrote the one book that someone needs, no matter where you are on your boundary journey, you can get it at boundarybossbook.com. But it really is from soup to nuts like wherever you are right now, to wherever it is that you want to go. And I think that, you know, one thing, one thing that people don't even know what boundaries are.

So my definition is there, I want you to think about them as your own personal rules of engagement. It's how you're gonna let people know what's okay with you and what is not okay with you, which means you gotta know your preferences, your limits, and your deal breakers. Like the shit that you're like, no, like, nope, this is the end for me, is your deal breaker.

So not all boundaries are made equal, right? Some things are just a preference. And some things are like a absolute hard no. I feel like a lot of people do struggle with boundaries also. They have the need to please as well, right? So there's a lot of us and insecurities and just that anxiety of someone being upset with them or mad with them. And they think about, I mean, that's a huge part of this too, right? When you have that person that can't believe

what they said during the day and they literally can't sleep that night and they're replaying it in their head and they don't know how to comfortably set a boundary, right, where they feel comfortable saying what they're willing to do, what they're not willing to do, you know, what they're going to accept and what they're not going to accept from a certain relationship, whether it be your parents, your friends, your boyfriend, your girlfriend, your wife, or even your family members, right? I do think boundaries is such a powerful thing that we might not pay attention to, which is a huge, huge part of relationships, right?

Absolutely. Well, it's a huge part of building a healthy relationship because it's not just about learning to assert your own boundaries. It's about having the ability to respect and accept the other person's boundaries. And when I was like a full-time people pleaser, if someone said no to me, I was pissed, right? Right.

You know what I mean? Like, I had no idea. You know, I had no idea. You know, he got insulted. You're like, yes. Yes. So mad. So mad.

But also so hurt. Because I was endlessly doing crap I didn't want to do. Right? So I wasn't being honest in my life. And so when someone would be honest with me and say, no, I'd be so mad. Right. Of course, now when being, you know, that was decades ago, being so much healthier, who are my closest people in my life, the people who can, who will tell me the truth about

how they feel, about what their limit is? Yes, I want to see you, but I'm too tired. Okay. I love you. I respect that. Like there is something it shifts your relationship and deepens the intimacy and your true closeness with others. When you can tell the truth or talk true, that's why I put that in the subtitle of the book. It's kind of a weird way of saying it, but I wanted people to remember that when you're not asserting your boundaries, you're essentially being dishonest. Exactly. You're denying yourself, right? What you really want inside. So talk truth. I love that statement too, because if we're not talking the truth and we're in these relationships, right? And we're just kind of going with the flow. We're people pleasing.

We're caught. We don't want to ruffle feathers. And ultimately, that doesn't cause happiness. It's almost like we are pleasing others, but not pleasing ourselves. And I know a lot of people. And I feel like there's different times in in my life, or in, you know, in an individual's life, where they were really just pleasing someone and it wasn't really what they wanted. And, you know, an individual's life where they were really just pleasing someone and it wasn't really what they wanted. And, you know, or they don't want to hurt someone or they don't know how to set that boundary. It can even be a breakup, right? They don't know how to let go of something because they don't want to hurt someone else, but they're unhappy themselves. Yep. And then eventually that unhappiness, though, here's the thing. This is how

martyrs are built is by living a life where we self-abandoned and self-sacrifice. We do it for ins, for the, you know, sake of the relationship, or we do it to be nice or we do it because we think we're being loving, right? What ends up happening though is that's like a slow boat to bitter land, because there's only so long that you can do that before you start blaming the other person, even though you're doing it. But then you're like, oh, but that jerk is entitled. That she expects too much. He asks for too much. Maybe they do.

Well, then you start to look at them like you've settled, right, that you're in a position or in a relationship that you don't want to be in. And every little move they make starts to annoy you, right? Because it's those. And I've seen it before because you're like, I can't believe I'm here, I can't believe I've done this. And the way they walk starts to annoy you, the way they talk starts to annoy you. I mean, this is not pertaining to my relationship for all my listeners out there who are, you know, coming up with these conclusions. But I'm just saying it really is, I've seen it and I know it and I feel like when you don't set your boundaries and talk truth, it does, it does eventually come out in your own on happiness and it does ruin a relationship.

So do you believe that it is better early on to just realize this? I mean, do you think there is a way to set strict, strict boundaries without coming off as rude or inconsiderate of others? Well, I wouldn't call them strict, right? I would, I would call them that this is your, your rules of engagement, right? Your preferences don't have to be strict. They just have to be expressed. So it's like the important things, the deal breakers. Yeah, I think that someone who gets into a relationship with you has a right to know. You know, when I was when I was single, living in Manhattan, whatever, and I was dating, I said to my friends, they're trying to set me up with people and I was like, I stopped drinking when I was 21, so I considered myself in recovery and I was like, I stopped drinking when I was 21 so I considered myself in recovery.

And I was like, but nobody in recovery. And one of my friends is like, why not? You're in recovery. You're judging people in recovery. I was like, no, that's just my deal breaker. There's only room in my relationship for one recovering addict and that's me. But I don't want it.

It's, I don't need to explain to you why. None of your mother-affinement business. Like, it's my right to have that deal breaker Just like your deal breakers or you have your right and People have a right to know what they are wow Can I just say that hits home with me so much and I love that because I feel there are toxic relationships in my life Okay, and I am at the point with those relationships or that relationship that I don't wanna explain really,

I don't wanna explain why anymore. I don't wanna explain why it doesn't work for me, why I'm setting a boundary there, why I'm letting go of it. I'm at the point where I used to want to explain that constantly and defend myself because of my own guilt or feeling horrible or thinking, if it's family, you can't do that. You fight, fight, fight. But I have now created this boundary where I almost don't feel the need that I need to explain

to anyone why I feel this way. This is how I feel. This is what I know is best for my life moving forward. Like from the age that I'm at now to how I want to live the rest of my life. And I'm comfortable setting that boundary. And I what you just hits home with me completely with with a situation in my own life. So I'm sure my listeners are all, you know, just nodding their heads right now, understanding that like it's okay. And it's so nice to hear it. You know, just nodding their heads right now, understanding that like it's okay and it's so nice to hear it. You know, from someone like you

who has experience who does talk to people, who knows that it's firsthand the right thing to do because I think guilt comes in so much when it comes to creating boundaries with so many situations. There's a guilt trip for you because you're like, listen, it's not the right thing to do. I should stick it out. I'm being selfish.

I am looking out for what's right for me, but what's the big picture. But coming back to what you said before, I don't want to explain it. This is what I want and that's it. Like it's something that's toxic to me and I want out and I don't want to explain to anyone why. Right, but that's your deal breaker, though, nonetheless. like that's literally you're at a take it or leave it like you're you're at a deal breaker situation. And when you get there and you give yourself permission to have your boundaries and realize that you don't need other people's permission or approval of your feelings,

of your decisions, up squat for that matter. Like you're allowed, you're a grown woman. This is your job. You said you're on looking out for what's best for me. Yeah, you know why? You're literally the only one who can. You are the only one who can look out for what's best for you. And you must because ultimately, that ends up being what's best for the relationships

that are important in your life. And sometimes not all of our relationships make it. And that's a reality of life too. They're not all lifers, right? Correct. Because sometimes you do feel like it's a failure, right? Like I couldn't get this to work. There was nothing I can do to fix this. I feel like I've tried every angle, every position, you know, every avenue. And it's just, I think I've come to a place where I said, you know what? I think I'm done trying. And I don't feel guilty for it anymore. It's just doesn't work with my life. I've tried for say 10 years, right? And it doesn't work. And I'm letting go. And I do not want to feel the guilt of it. and I don't feel guilt over it

And I don't want to explain to anyone else why I don't have guilt over it I just know it's right for me and what's right for my family and It's very interesting that you I didn't know that you're even gonna bring something up that way But it really strikes home for me and I'm sure so many other people with their own personal situations strikes home for me and I'm sure so many other people with their own personal situations. Do you feel that if you're already in a relationship with someone, whether it be personal or professional, and you now want to put in insert some boundaries? Is it too late? Is there a way to do that once you're already in a relationship with someone?

Sure. Of course there is, but I understand the question because I get this a lot. People start to learn about boundaries and I'm like, shit, I've been in this relationship for like 15 years. How am I going to now change the boundary dance? And I always say, we're going to do it slowly and lovingly and gently.

But the first step is we got to get honest with ourselves. So if you're, and then I'll get to how to do it in an established relationship, but we have to go, okay, I'm going to take a resentment inventory of like, what am I holding resentment about for whom this will tell us where we need to think about more clearly establishing boundaries or sharing our preferences or letting someone know about a deal breaker or whatever whatever the scenario is. So we can't do those things if we don't get proactive and go, okay, where are the trouble spots in my relationships? What are the things that I used to be willing to do? But I'm kind of don't want one anymore.

Like, hmm, let's talk about that. What are the things that I used to let slide, someone making a side mark, being sarcastic, doing whatever, but I don't want to do that anymore either. So where do I begin? Is it almost like, or clients have asked me, or people have asked me, is it like, do I have a right to change? And the answer is, of course, you do. And I love to hear that too. Just and that, yes, like I'm talking husband and wives too.

There's people who are married for 15 years and then a wife for, you know, decides, you know, what? This is, I'm going to switch things up here a little bit and that's okay. I feel like a lot of women, you know, who want to go off to work after being home raising babies and, you know, and I'm sure there's obviously the situation with men as well. But I do know a lot of women who want to go off to work after being home raising babies. And I'm sure there's obviously the situation with men as well. But I do know a lot of friends personally who struggle. I struggled with it at one point where you're like, wait a second, I'm going to change our tradition right now and I am going to mix it up a little bit. And am I wrong for doing this? No, you're answered to that is no.

Of course not, because here's the thing, what is better for kids than having a happy, fulfilled mom, like someone who feels is doing what's right for herself, loving, caring, doing all the other things too, but there's a reality that if we let someone else's idea of who we should be on this planet rule what we do then we'll blame them then we're resentful when the truth is this is a solo journey even when we partner with people even when we create humans with people the truth is we come in alone and we go out alone so

what you do in this one and only amazing this, this honor that we get to be on this planet, like what an honor. Not everyone gets to live as long as we've already lived, right? Not everyone gets to create beautiful things in their life or help other people. And, you know, we have to take those opportunities. If it's in your heart to do it, squashing it will only make you resemble. So back to the actual question, that was the longest way around the barn, but you would ask, how do we actually make the changes? Like, what do we do? First, expect some pushback, right? Because your person will probably feel a little threatened

if you start changing the dance. Because with all relationships, Dr. Harriet Lerner said, many years ago, you know, all relationships are a dance. It's like, I do this, then you do this. You know what I mean? Then I do this, then you do this. Now, with boundaries, if you start saying, oh, hey, you know what I used to be willing to do every single solitary thing in this house that keeps it running. But now that I'm going to go back to work, I would like to have more have to be more equitable and I would like some help. So here's a whiteboard. I wrote down every single mother f and thing that I do.

And now I'd like you to choose a quarter or a half of that to help. Let's just say like those types of changes. Now, I'm not sure I would bring out the whiteboard immediately, but this is what we're talking about. We're talking about changing established dynamics in a relationship. And it's perfectly fine to say, I know in the past, I've been willing to do X, Y, and Z. But now that I have all this energy going to the podcast, into the show, into the things, I really, I want to sort of change it up. And here's the thing too. If the other person, let's say, can't do it, won't do it, doesn't want to

do it, doesn't want to learn how to do it, it's really about getting it done, right? So sometimes it can be like, well, if you're not going to help, then let's get someone to help. Let's outsource some of these things because my time is better spent creating another podcast, right? Or doing whatever. And when you expect to push back, then when it happens, you don't have to freak out. Like the person may be like, and they people will say, I don't even know you anymore. You've changed since you got into therapy.

I don't know. You're not the woman I married or you're not my sister. I know or you're like trying to like who is this woman in front of me right? Yeah. Yes. And they want to blame someone for the feelings right that their partner is having. So they probably start with the therapist because the therapist is making you think crazy. Yep. Right. And think different. And but here's the thing, are the way that we the strategy from the person who is growing and evolving is that we stay lovingly attached to the important people in our lives. So if your partner says, I don't know you anymore, you can say, babe, you do, you do. And I know I'm changing. And it seems like maybe you don't like

that. But I love you. And I still want to changing and it seems like maybe you don't like that. But I love you. And I still want to have this conversation about sharing things differently in the home because it's important to me. And yes, if they say you've changed, I always say when people say you've changed, I always say, thank you for noticing. I've been working on it. Right. So basically taking it as a compliment and being kind and sweet with it. I mean, I, it's totally, what is that called when you're, when you're, you're discarding them, you're just taking down the guard there and saying, like, take a step back, I am changing, but that has nothing to do with the way I feel about you. It's my own, it's a personal thing. And I love you. It's very hard to have an

argument with someone if they present it in the way that you just did, right? I mean, it's hard because you're kind of pulling off the arm or you're saying, this is not an argument, this is not anything against you, this is nothing against our relationship, this is a personal preference. And I would love your support. It's important to me growing, changing, becoming healthier.

And I wanna do that with you because you're my person and I love you and I really would love your support in this too. Because when people say like you've changed, especially people who've been in relationships for like 25 years, you're like, dude, we got married when we were 22. Did you think I was gonna be the same mother,

or when I was 52? Hello. Thank you, thank you. I say this all the time. I always say that to Joe. I'm like, babe, I was 24 when you met me. You know, I'm 43 now. It's very different. Like I say that all the time. That's so

funny. And I know many people who do who were in a relationship since they some people were with their high school sweethearts. Yes. There's 17, 18 years old. It's it's insane. You're not the same person in your late 30s or early 40s that you are or even in your 50s that you are when you're, when you're, you know, 20 years old, right?

I mean, you're, you're a different person. Another thing I noticed, I was on your Instagram, which I love, by the way, so make sure everyone, you know, checks her out on Instagram. It's just Terry Cole on Instagram, right? Yep. Excellent. So I was looking through it quickly. There is a couple little things that you have on there.

Like for instance, one thing said, there is no happiness fairy, right? And then you list a couple things about that. Do you want to explain a little with that and what you mean by a happiness fairy? I mean, I think I know, but I just, I kind of, I loved that. Do you want to explain a little with that and what you mean by a happiness fairy? I mean, I think I know, but I just I kind of I loved that. Well, what I was saying in that little real was that we have to take responsibility for the way we feel and for the way that we want to feel. So that means from an empowered standpoint, if there are things in your life that are making you unhappy, they need your attention. You need to go, Hey, man,

that thing is not working for me, whether it's a working relationship, whether it's a family relationship, whatever the thing is. And that as human beings, we have what's called the negativity bias, which means that we remember painful and negative things five times more readily than we do positive things because it was like an instinctual way of surviving, right? Like back in the day, like if something hurt you or something, bit your leg, you'd remember, get stay away from that animal, basically. But as humans, we still have that negativity bias in our brains, which means that we have to work five times harder to focus on the good, to remember the good.

And what I'd also said in that real is that some people are feel like they're just naturally pessimistic, right? Like, that is their personality. And that may be so. But it's still your responsibility. If you know this about yourself, I feel like there's a bit of a laziness sometimes when someone's like, I'm just pessimistic. I'm like, you're, are you exhausted? Like why? So, so you, you think the worst, you go through life with a glass half empty, like what a drag and what a drag for all the people around you.

So the last thing I'll say about that is, as Oprah would say, you have to take responsibility for the energy you bring into and leave in a room. So if someone is really pissed right, I love all this stuff. This is like, you need to come join the Real Housewives of New Jersey as a special guest once a month at minimum and just sit us down in a round circle and have this conversation. Like, why do you bring to the room when you enter it? The glass is always half full. Are you the girl that the glass is half empty and we're going to see the light and we're

going to move forward? Like, for real, like, we're going to have to bring you on. I'm going to have to talk to Andy Cohen about this because we're going to need you like once a month. Just, and that's not even in my personal relationships. This is like my work relationship I'm talking about now. Another great thing that you had that I saw

on your Instagram, I loved when it said, and this I can very much so pertain to as well. How are you teaching others to treat you? Like how are we teaching others that it's okay to treat us, right? And that I wanted to talk to you about a little bit as well. Yeah. So, in that way, I was sort of talking about when we're in relationships with people and we just feel like they treat us like crap. And we feel terrible. We're like, why do they talk to me like that? Why do they, why are they so selfish? Or why don't they think of me or whatever? And what I'm saying again, it might sound a little harsh because I'm sort of like blaming,

like we've trained people to treat us a particular way. But what I'm really saying is that you have the power to train them to treat you differently. By the way that I look at relationships, right? You could only be 50% of your marriage and your husband is 50% of your marriage. Every relationship we have, I'm 50, the other person is 50. Sometimes my 50 is staying or tolerating a bunch of bullshit that I shouldn't tolerate. And when we start, again, this comes back to boundaries, emotional boundaries, physical boundaries, whatever it may be, when we start asserting ourselves in these

relationships and saying, Hey, you know what? Every time you raise your voice, I'm getting off the phone because this is not a conversation. Now it becomes an argument, nothing productive is going to happen. And I'm over it. It doesn't work for me. I do not let anybody talk to me that way. And that includes you, mom, dad, spouse, friend, sister, whoever the hell it is, right? And you start removing yourself. If it doesn't mean you have to go no contact with all of these people, but it does mean there has to be a consequence for people behaving in a way that is not okay with you, right? Remember, when we go back to boundaries, what are they? Your own personal rules of engagement.

Somebody's screaming, calling names, doing shady shit, telling a close person something you told them in confidence, all of those things need to be deal-breakers. At least for me, they are, right? Where I'm like, away. I told you something, and then you told someone else, I will tell you how upset I am about it, and I would also tell you, I will not be telling you anything in confidence probably for a very long time because you are not trustworthy.

Right. Yeah. Can you, what do you think about if someone does that to you once? Do you give them a second chance? Could they be wrong one time, make a mistake? Is there room for them to fix that? Yep, for me, listen, it would depend on what else. How do I feel about this person?

How important are they in my happiness? Is it a sister that I really love and she just like F'd up? Okay, I'm not telling her anything, but I will, she will have to be brave enough to have a conversation with me about how much her betrayal hurt me and that it's going to take me a little while to want to tell her those important or intimate things again. And I would want to know why, why would you do that? Why did you do that? Someone, especially someone, because I got a good trust meter. If I trust you,

you are trustworthy. Now, when I was in my 20s, you know, I used to trust, because I got a good trust meter. If I trust you, you are trustworthy. Now, when I was in my 20s, you know, I used to trust everyone because I thought I was always projecting that everyone else was like me because I'm a very trustworthy person. And then, of course, I got screwed a million and seven times and hurt, you know, people betraying my trust. And then I realized the therapy that people need to. I need to build relationships with people slowly and I need evidence that that person is a trustworthy person. I don't need to have instant intimacy with people I just meet. If they're worth getting to know, they'll be worth getting. It's right. It could be in three weeks, in three months, and it could take three years. And that's okay,

but that is a much more emotionally intelligent and healthy way of building relationships where we let people reveal who they actually are over time. Right. And when they say, when they, well, you know, that saying where it's like, you know, when they show you your colors, believe that, or I can't remember the exact thing. It's my angel who says, when people show you who they are, believe them. Correct. Exactly. And that's, do you agree with this?

Here's the thing. It depends on the situation, because I'm a humanist, you know, and I am a natural optimist. And I believe that with effective communication and healthy boundaries and understanding that there are conflicts that can be resolved if we're both willing to put in the work. So the Maya Angelou quote where I do think it's true is when we're talking about romantic relationships and you're talking about someone who talks a good game but their action doesn't back it up. So I would say to my therapy clients, don't tell me what they say, tell me what they do because what they do is the truth. What they do is the truth. What they say, that and a metro card will get you on the subway for most people.

Your right back to that action speak louder than words. And that's a true. That's a true statement right there. And that goes back. So far, I mean, right? And it's a real true thing. So we should, we should really watch people as they do more than as they say, because that's where you're going to find even in new relationships that people may be in really watch their actions because they can tell you all day they're going to call you back or they're going to get come pick you up or you guys are going to go out again on

Sunday or whatever it may be but do they actually put their money where their mouth is? Is the real question. Yes, and what do you do when they say I'm going to call you on Friday but they don't call and then they call them Monday and act like nothing happened. And they're like, how is the weekend? So you have a choice to collude with their lie by being like, my weekend was okay. Or you have the courage to be like, oh, hey, dude, when you flicked on Friday, I just figured you got busy. I ended up going away to plan a set it for the weekend anyway. So, but you mention it, we don't have to be psycho about it. We don't have to be totally aggressive about it. But here's the thing, if you say, I'm so to keep some word, that's it in life. If I say I'm going to be someone, if I say I'm going to

do it, I'm going to do it. But not everyone's like you. Not everyone's like you, right? A lot of people get ghosted, a lot of people They don't get the call back. They don't get the text back. They people are cowards these days. They don't they hide behind Texting and they don't even pick up the phone to say listen. I didn't love that day. I didn't love how that went not interested and they ghost you and I Right, but you got to have the courage to say hey when I didn't hear from you on Friday, after you said we'd go out Friday night, or just have an honest conversation, who cares? That will flex your boundary muscles to say, hey, even when you're getting to know someone, you could say, I'm really big on people

keeping their word. I'm busy. I just don't need a lot of back and forth stuff. Tell someone your preferences. I prefer phone calls to texting if you do. I mean, most young just don't need a lot of backboard stuff. Tell some of your preferences. I prefer phone calls to texting if you do. I mean, most young people don't, but some people do, I guess. I mean, a lot of people would think that looks weak. It's a weakness. You were waiting for your desperate, rather. No, you're not desperate. You're being assertive and you're letting them know. Like, listen, we're not going to push it under the rug that you totally didn't do what you said. You were going to do. It's annoying. I'm going to address it, but let's not make the whole day about it. Right. And if it continues to happen, I guess that's when you decide, okay,

I'm out. Right? Yes. And it will continue. It'll be much less likely to happen if you, because if you call someone out and they're like all avoidantly attached and weird when it comes to love and they were going to jerk you around for six months anyway, you're sparing yourself that bullshit, which is great. And the thing is you can say, because here's the thing, with people who say I'm going to call you and then don't, you're like, I didn't even bring an ask you to call me. Like you volunteered the day and the time and then didn't do it. Why? Like, I don't need it. So what you're really doing is establishing that you have standards, not being desperate because you're not desperate. I don't give a crap if you don't call me. Just don't say you're going to. Like, that's

it. Who made you promise? Nobody. So it's expecting people to keep their word and then sort of having the courage and you could do it fun and you could do it flirty. Like it doesn't have to be aggressive, but I don't think you should let it slide because you are setting up whatever you tolerate in the beginning of a relationship. You're setting up a long life of that behavior being okay. Because they're seeing what can slide. They're seeing, you know, everyone's testing in the beginning. Let's see how she goes with this. If I don't show up on Sunday and I end up going to the football game with the guys or whatever it may be, they're testing to see how far they can go.

And if you kind of hit the nail in the head right in the beginning, and I always say that even just the way you conduct how you speak to each other, right, from the beginning, I feel like that truly lingers on for the rest of the relationship. Like the way you have an argument, the way you handle an argument in the beginning is the way you're going to probably handle that argument in 10 years, right? So it's very, very important in the beginning of a conversation to have, you know, the back and forth that is respectful or that you can handle because usually what you start with is what you're going to end with.

I always say that to my single girlfriends because I feel that that's true. You know, how you start it is very, it's huge how you start it off. It is and I think that establishing, like, fair fighting and no, nothing, anything that would be upsetting to you, like, name calling somebody being explosive with their anger, you have to be like, Hey, I'm just saying that does not work for me It just doesn't and some people would be like, well then I don't work for you because this is the way that I am when I'm mad Okay, then you don't work for me, but it's not it's about us when we have healthy boundaries When you're becoming more of a boundary boss It's about you not self-abandoning in the service of keeping the piece quote unquote

Because you're really starting a war within yourself as Cheryl Richardson has said that like when we don't say anything to keep the piece We create an internal war within ourselves I Mean I all of this makes perfect sense if we can all just listen and follow right and and And do, as you say, and not as we do sometimes, there was another little thing that you had on your Instagram as well that I find so interesting. Because again, it hits for me personally also, and I'm sure with many other people,

it said, what are the seven signs? And I think I actually screen shot most of them. What are the seven signs that you're walking on eggshells in your relationship, right? So like, which I think is very important, like, and some of them are, okay, that you have listed here, says you have less confidence

because your person puts you down a lot, right? So that was like number one for you. That's a true statement, right? This is so true. This is a huge sign that you are now walking on egg shells because you constantly have less confidence when you're around this person. And you feel insecure because when you're with someone who thinks like you're the greatest, it boosts your confidence. Even if the world is harsh, but a healthy relationship, you're not walking on eggshells, right?

A healthy relationship, you're not afraid of your partner because they're like your best friend too, you know? And the relationship becomes a soft place to land in a hard world instead of also a hard place, you know? Right. The second one you said is if your partner is easily provoked to anger, you know you're gonna walk on eggshells, right? Because there's, and I, you know, this is a personal thing too.

If you're, if you know he's gonna come home and it's gonna annoy him or her or whatever it is, you just say to yourself, like, I don't wanna say this, but I'm so mad, but you know they're gonna freak out when you say it, so you hold it in. And again, you're personally hurting yourself and you're having a conflict in your own mind. And you can't sleep at night because you're walking on eggshells because of the anger you know that your partner is going to explode. Basically, if you say these things to them, which it's, it's rough, right? That's a rough thing. But even with a lot of people with anger issues, though, people who make the

partner is war can actually the problem is that it's not even sometimes you're not even saying anything bad. Like the real problem that creates a hyper vigilance where you feel like you're always have to be like, what am I looking at? What is happening? Is that you don't know what's going to set them off? I mean, also you wrote, you encounter some form of conflict with your person or your partner every day. There's some type of conflict, not a day goes by. Do you see this a lot with a lot of your clients? I do. Yeah, I do. Where it's especially in something. Yes. And like the, they would, you know, the description that I say

and that, that real is like, it really came for my clients, being like, I wake up and it's almost like the sense of dread come when I start to think about, what is it going to be today that I do wrong or that is the problem or that provokes them? Like, what is it? So it's from the moment they wake up, they wake up and feel the sense of like impending doom about the day. Right, right. Okay, and the last one I want to ask you about on this one because I feel like this one is is pretty crazy too. Your partner complains about the relationship, like the complaints, rather, that your partner

has about the relationship are always amplified. And they might be so exaggerating all the time about how bad things are. I mean, is that someone who actually wishes they were not in the relationship so they're constantly picking on you, finding something that's wrong? If it's the smallest thing thing they do exaggerate it. I think this is a huge piece of a lot of people's relationships. Yeah, it's definitely a red flag, but I don't know, you know, I don't know that I can say conclusively that it means the person doesn't want to be in it. It may just mean that they're unhealthy.

It may just mean it's what they saw. Like sometimes it's modeled behavior. Like you grew up. And I remember seeing this couple when I was doing couples counseling years ago. And like the guy was a screamer. Soon as there was a conflict, he would like be like, at the top of his lung screaming. And the wife was like, I can't do it. It's just so no. And he literally in the treatment was like, this is how my parents did it. I just thought that's what married people do when there's a problem. And I was like, okay, well, no, I mean, that's one thing they do, but there's a million better things you could do, like actually problem

solved. But I was happy they were in therapy and we were able to get to a point where I was like, that's abusive screaming at the top of your lungs. That's abusive. Do you understand that? And he was like, it is? I was like, yeah, you need to get old a bit, pal. Right. You need to take a chill pill. This is seriously, dude.

Eat a gummy. No, no. Listen, Terry, everything you said makes so much, so much sense. OK. And I need to tell everyone out there, it's called Boundary Boss. It really is the first book that I really heard about that does talk a lot about boundaries.

And I feel like we leave boundaries out so much. It's such a huge part of all of this. Thank you so much for coming on today. I really, really enjoy this. And I enjoy your Instagram. So make sure everyone follows her on Instagram. It's Terry Cole. Thank you again. I'm gonna read this whole book

and I am so excited. I would love to have you back anytime and maybe you should take me up on once a month just showing up to our, or at least come to our reunions. Come to the house. Talk to Andy Cohen. Talk to Andy. Talk to Andy Cohen. We need this woman for at least just 30 minutes throughout the day of this 15 hour day that we filled this reunion. My God. Geez. Okay. Thank you so much. Love having you. You're in so insightful. Really, really great. Make sure everyone check out Boundary Boss. Thank you, Terry. Thanks for having me, honey. Let's do it! No!

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