On The Brink with Castle Island - Itai Turbahn (Dynamic) on Web3 logins and announcing Dynamic's Series A (EP.485)

Episode Date: December 13, 2023

Itai Turbahn, the co-founder and CEO of Dynamic joins the show. In this episode we discuss: The mission of Dynamic and the how the company is enabling seamless web3 log in experiences. Breakout applications in the web3 category. An overview of Passkeys and the impact that this technology will have on both web2 and web3 log in experiences. Account abstraction and the innovation that is likely to emerge using this technology. Dynamic's new embedded wallet offering. Itai announces Dynamic's Series A round of financing from a16z, Founders Fund, Castle Island Ventures and others. To learn more about Dynamic visit dynamic.xyz  

Today on the podcast, I sat down with a Thai turban, the co-founder and CEO of Dynamic. Dynamic is a company that enables seamless onboarding flows across Web3 applications. This was Utah's second time on the podcast, and we had a really good time talking about all the advancement that is happening underneath the hood of blockchain technology applications. Itai and Dynamic also announced a $13.5 million series A round of financing today that we were fortunate enough to participate in. So without further ado, here's my conversation with the from Dynamic. Matt Walsh and Nick Carter are partners at Castle Island Ventures. All of these expressed by them or the guests on this podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect

the opinions of Castle Island Ventures. Guest and hosts may maintain positions in the assets discussed in this podcast. You should not treat any opinion expressed by anyone on this podcast as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of their personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only. Brought down by bad mortgage investments, Lehman, which has 25,000 employees will be liquidated. The federal government loans American International Group AIG, $85 billion. This is a different kind of market, and the Fed is asleep.

The federal government is stepping it to stabilize Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the two mortgage giants that have been threatened by the housing crisis. The Bank of England has pumped 75 billion pounds more to Britain's ailing economy with a new round of quantitative easing. You print a couple trillion dollars, and all of a sudden, people start to worry. So out of this worry, we have something called the Bitcoin. Bitcoin. Well, I, Tai, welcome back to the podcast.

You've joined the illustrious group of repeat guests that have. important things to say on this podcast. So welcome back to your second appearance on the break. Thank you. I'm excited to be here. I hope I get a jacket or some swag as a kind of a second show guest. We do have swag, actually. So we'll have to get that. We have a merch store, but we never talk about it. So it's a good reminder that we need to get you some swag. Love it. So shameless plug for the merch store, everyone should go and buy. Everyone should. So last time you were on, we talked to, I guess that was about a year ago. So so much has happened since then. And we set that up. So I'd recommend folks to listen to the first one we did just on sort of your career history and what led you

to start the company. But maybe a good place to start with this podcast would just be, why don't you just set up dynamic, what you guys do and what products you offer? Sure, absolutely. So when you go into any website on the internet today and when you click sign up or log in and you go to a new page or get a pop up with email login and social login, etc. That part is usually managed by a company. So if you go to Wall Street Journal, New York Times, you click log in, they don't build that part of the engineering on their own. They use a service like Auth Zero or others to power that part of their business, so power kind of the user management part and kind of access controls, who can access what part of the site, etc. We do something

very similar in Web3. So when you go into a sound.xyZ or token proof, or StarCware, which are kind of Web3 sites, and you click login, the thing that pops up is dynamic. So we let you log in with your wallet if you have one, so your Metamass or your Coinbase wallet or your Phantom. We let you log in with your email or social login like Google or Apple. But then we also generate a wallet for you behind the scenes, a non-custodial wallet, if you don't have one as a part of that process.

So our dynamic in a nutshell is essentially a provider for websites. and apps to kind of handle their entire user management and login in kind of account creation part of their system rather than trying to build it on their own. That makes total sense. And one of the things that you hear people that are crypto-sceptics talk about a lot is just how consumer use cases for this technology are limited because the UI and the U.S. is just so challenging historically around maintaining seed phrases and public-private keys. but really I would say the market is saying otherwise,

and it's largely on the back of things like what you guys are building. So maybe just talk about what's been going on over the past year in terms of the types of customers that are using dynamic and what they're building. To your point, that's exactly right. So if you were to define dynamic in a different way, I would say the one-sentence version of dynamic is trying to make it completely seamless for you to use a Web3 service so that you don't necessarily even know it exists. And what we're seeing over the past year is more and more about shift in within Web3 companies

to be open to using these types of services, kind of a better U.S. and UI that let people log in. And we're seeing more consumers as a result be able to kind of log in leverage these crypto services without necessarily even knowing that they're crypto. And that is important for multiple reasons, right now. It's important. We're seeing this in kind of the RWA space, whether it's Maple Finance, that's a dynamic customer or Jasmine Energy or Fabrica Land, which are tying real-world assets to the blockchain.

And they use Dynamic to completely abstract whether people know about crypto or not, or whether it's more in the consumer tech part of the world, like Carrick Club and others, where the idea is to completely remove the need for everyone who clicks that login button to know that something's happening in the background, but rather use the service that they came into the site to use. Just like an analogy in Web 2, when you click login with Google, you don't really need to know all the technology that goes behind, making sure you connect to Google,

and your information gets transferred. You just want the thing to work. So as someone who's been in this industry for almost 10 years now, I somewhat take for granted how difficult it is to onboard and actually start using these things. So at the risk of getting too technical, what is actually happening when I'm logging in using Dynamic on a Maple Finance, for example? What are you guys putting underneath the hood to make it simple? Yeah, absolutely. So regardless of whether it's Maple Finances of others, it really,

the flow is the following. You go into a site and you click log in with Google or you enter your email and get a one-time code in your email address. And you log in. You might get a second screen that says secure your account, and that pops up your face ID on your phone or your touch ID and you kind of just face ID or touch ID and you log in and you are done, right? That is your experience as an end consumer. From the dynamic lens, what happens is a bunch of things in the background to create that magical experience. So we confirm your identity.

We confirm you are who you say you are. We confirm your email address or we confirm that you really have access to your Google account. And then based on that, and based on the. face ID, we generate a wallet for you in the background that is tied to your face ID to something called a pass key and lets you sign transactions or get a wallet address and kind of interact with the blockchain, regardless of which blockchain it is, very, very quickly without even knowing that you're doing that. So what happens in the background is actually you're getting sort of like you're connecting

to quote unquote an outlet for crypto rails through a wallet that is generated for you where you can do all the magical things that are crypto related without needing to actually know that you're doing it. That's really what happens in the background. There are a couple more orders of complexity of kind of technical, how you do it in a non-custodial way, where the keys stored, which technology used to do so. But at the very basic level, you log in and a wallet is created behind the scenes, which is essentially the way to connect you to the broadband of crypto rails. It's fascinating because I remember in the early days when I was at Fidelity, I'd be going around and talking to people about, okay, well, these are the types of things you can build

on blockchains, but really, ultimately, at the end of the day, what you want to get to is a place where you don't even know that there's a blockchain underneath. And you're leveraging some of the immutability or some of the notarization characteristics, whatever it is you're using a blockchain for. But ultimately, there's probably a world here in the pretty near future where people will using apps that they don't even know are blockchain enabled. 100%. So you see this in the wild today. So that's exactly what we're going to go, I think, as an industry, which is if you go

to PayPal today and you log in on your phone, they have set up a wallet for you. And that stores your PayPal USD, right? Your dollars. And you can transfer that to your Venmo account within one click. And that Venmo account also has a wallet in the background for you. And then you can go to Grab if you're in Singapore and you can transfer money there. And that Grab app also has a crypto wallet there for you. But you don't need to know about any of this stuff.

You just need to know that now if you want to transfer potentially money from your Venmo account to your Grab account, you can do that very quickly and very efficient. That's the beauty is that you're implementing these massive shared rails for crypto transactions, but not necessarily that everyone need to know that that exists. Or if you go and you say, look, I want to buy these unique assets that I couldn't buy until now, you don't need to know that you have a wallet that stores these assets. You just need to know that you can go in, buy them in a secure way, and leverage kind of the benefit of a thing that you now have access to,

a liquid thing that you now have access to that used to be very illiquid and you couldn't have this before. And that's where we're going as an industry. And again, you don't have to wait for the future here. You just download your PayPal app or your Venmo app and you're going to have a wallet on your phone. It's crazy how fast it's accelerating. And of course, you guys are a big part of that. But in parallel, you had mentioned pass keys and would love to talk about that and maybe bring people up to speed on what's going on, what past keys are and what's going on with Apple and Google and some of the kind of non-crypto advances in that space.

Yeah, absolutely. So, and this is the geeky side of me talking. One of the geekiest thing to be excited about, but one of the coolest things that have happened in the realm of authentication for the last 10, 20 years is the concept of pastime. What does that really mean? Ignoring crypto for a second, Google and Apple and Amazon and others have woken up in the morning. They have billions of users.

They said, we have a couple problems. Problem number one is that people who log in with a password, forget. their passwords. It's problem number one. Problem number two is people who log in with passwords reuse their passwords. Third thing is people who log in with passwords are easily convinced to give their password away for someone who shouldn't get access, to get fished, essentially. And that's a disaster. The last thing is that if you reuse your password and a small website where you used password gets hacked, a big website that took a lot of care to secure your password is now at risk. So essentially they woke up in the morning a couple of years ago and they say, okay,

passwords are the end-all-be-all-of-ev-ev-eval. And we have to get rid of those. How do we get rid of those? Well, now we have this really cool thing, which is everyone has a smartphone in their pocket. And that smartphone has biometrics, so your face ID or your touch ID. And a lot of folks have laptops now with biometrics, so your touch ID. And what if we move away from this concept of passwords to this concept of let's use a thing then only you can access your face or your touch ID, and no one else can access it.

And let's also build it in a way where we give a different kind of automatic password based on this biometric to each site that you use. So even if site A gets hacked, nothing can happen to site B. And so they came up with a thing called WebOthN, and then they came up kind of within a duration on top of it, and that's called Pasquis. So inherently what a Paskey is, is Google and Apple and Amazon's way to let, you log into every site with your face ID or touch ID, completely unrelated to crypto. If you fast forward a year, I would, am willing to take a bet with any podcast listener here,

which is you're going to be using pass keys on a day-to-day basis. So the way you're going to log into a site is not going to be a password. It's just going to be your face ID and touch ID and an email address. That's what past keys are. It's essentially a different way of saying this is this is the future evolution of how you log in and kind of interact with websites. And the way we know it's the future evolution, and sorry for the very long monologue about the boring topic of face ID and touch ID, but the way we know it's the future is that we have never seen companies as big as Apple, Google,

Facebook, and Amazon move as quickly on anything as they are moving on pastis. Google just made a default way for you to log in. So next time you log into your Gmail account, you're going to see they're going to ask you to set up a pass key. And what's up just a few? And what's up just added it and Facebook is adding it and Amazon just added it and DocuSign just added it and GitHub just added, et cetera. And so there's this huge revolution with regards to how you authenticate on the web, how you log in, and that's what a past key is. It's using your face ID, it uses this really interesting cryptography or private public keys in the background, but at the very basic level, log into a site using your face ID rather than a password you made up on the spot and get

rid of all those challenges that you used to have with passengers. Now, I'll pause here for a second and I'll talk about where it actually ties into crypto. The crypto tie-in is really the interesting part. And I guess I'd be particularly interested in how that informs your product strategy in terms of what you see out there, what you want to use, what you don't want to use. And how do you think that'll inform what you build a dynamic? Yeah, absolutely. So first, where it ties into crypto and then to your point, why, how it informs kind of where we're going. First, the, entire realm of crypto is based on the same concept of you have a private key and a public key that when you spin up a wallet or a meta mask or anything like that, you log in, you have

something that only you know your private key and someone else has a public key. And that's how you sign things on the blockchain. That's how you kind of communicate. That's how you transfer assets from one person to another. So the concepts are pretty much the same. They technically use a different elliptic encryption curve and stuff like that, but the concepts are the same. And so, So what you can start doing in a really cool way is inherently use a pass key to encrypt a wallet on your phone or crypto, part of a share if you're using more sophisticated technology like MPC. But it is a very, very, very good way for you to kind of store private information that no one else should access or help you sign for things in a way that isn't fished.

So in other words, what that really means is that if. If your password for the Wall Street Journal gets stolen, that's one level of pain. But if your password to something that contains $10,000 gets stolen, that's a second level of pain. And so the use of face ID, the use of something that can't be fish, that use of something that can be reused, is critical across the web. And it is even more doubly, triply, I don't have enough words in my dictionary to use this, but it is hugely critical. in the world of crypto, which where login not just secures your data, but login secures your money. And so that is this really exciting concept that we're seeing propagate across the realm of crypto.

Farcaster just introduced this on the social side. Proposed changes to the Ethereum ecosystem that better support pass keys. You see this across many, many parts of the business. And specifically what Dynamic is doing and shameless plug for us here is we're using pass keys as the way to generate a wallet for you. So if you go to our site and check out a demo, you will see you go on on your phone. You would log in. You would use your face ID to secure your account. And then wallet is generated for you.

And only when you sign in with your face ID can a transaction happen or anything like that. And we're betting on that, not as the only technology, by the way, you will see other optionality. from us, but we're betting on that as a very key technology in a way for you to create or sign into a thing that can have a lot of value very, very quickly. So a lot of monetary value can be stored in your wallet without the risk of fishing attempts or SIM swap attacks or any of these other common hack approaches that let people kind of take your money away from you. And so we're betting very much on this is a very critical technology or kind of piece of the infrastructure to allow you to keep your money safe as it should be.

It's something I wish existed earlier. I can't tell you how many times I have used an app. And like you, I experiment with pretty much anything that's coming out. And I can't tell you how many times of just lost wallets because I just wrote down a seed phrase on a notebook or something. It wasn't like I had a lot of value in them. But maybe I was trying to interact with the Web 3 game or something like that or had some in-game assets. And they're long gone now because who knows where that wallet is. But if Pass Keys existed five, six years ago, this would have been a much different ballgame. One more important point about the boring yet yet extremely exciting world of Pass Keys is that, and you have just described this, a common

thing we do is we go to a site and we make up a password and we hope we remember it. And sometimes it's a non-important site. So we just kind of log in once and we say, it'll be fine next time we log in. One of the cool things that Apple and Google did with PASC keys is they essentially on phones have forced them to be tied into your password manager. So the second you log in with a PASC key on your iPhone, it is stored with your ICloud account. And the second you log in with a PASCII or Face ID on your Android device,

it is stored with your Google password manager. or it can be stored with a dash line or one password for anyone using it, which inherently means that you cannot just forget it. It's just there. And now if your phone gets stolen from you, you still have access to it because you have access to your ICloud account. So you get this huge movement in kind of the realm of authentication. I would urge everyone who's interested in this to actually just

literally Google News pass keys and see the amount of folks announcing passkey support just over last week. It's incredible. Another aspect that is really changed in this industry over the past year since you've been on is just the idea of account abstraction. So maybe for those who might not be familiar, talk a little bit about what that is and then how that impacts what you guys are building. Yeah, absolutely. First, just to our point about creating these magical experiences, what we're starting to see is everyone's kind of moving towards a similar direction, which is to create that magical experience. If you log in, you create a wallet, that wallet has superpowers, but you've never needed to think. about crypto, that stack is starting to be kind of pass keys, then something called account

abstraction, which will define in the second, as kind of a second layer to that stack. So the technology side of this is really a combination of wallet management with pass keys or secure methods with account abstraction. And that lets you create these kind of magical experiences for folks very quickly without needing to know about any of this crypto stuff. Now, specifically, what is account abstraction? At the very basic level, think about it. a wallet with superpowers. You go in and you create a Meta Mask wallet. That's something called an EOA, an externally owned account. It can really do one thing, which is sign things on it. You can sign things directly. And that's important for many reasons. But that wallet, when you go into

Uniswap or anything like that, interacts with a smart contract. And that smart contract, as the name suggests, is pretty smart. You can do a bunch of really cool things with it. The concept of account abstraction is saying, why is there, a smart contract just on one end of this, let's have a smart contract on the other end of this. So let's make your wallet not kind of a thing that can just sign, but let's make your wallet itself a smart contract. So have it given more functionality that it can use to do more things. What that really means, and we'll touch on the technical details in the second, but what that really means for users is when you run a transaction, you have a concept of a gas feed.

You have to associate that something could cost money. But in that magic, experience, the provider, the company taking you through that magical experience might want to cover that gasp. With a cat's abstraction, they can do that. They can say, look, for the first five transactions, we will cover this. And then for the next five transactions, we will let the user pay with a credit card versus pay with ether, as we all did when we bought things on OpenC over the last two or three years. And more than that, for anything up to $1,000, don't ask for signing, but rather assume it's approved automatically and also create additional ways to back up the wallet with more folks that can associate stuff.

So essentially, it's this programmable way for you to make wallets really smart. What we're seeing today is it's a proposal on the technical side called ERC 4337. And we're starting to see is this explosion of embedded wallets of wallets that, as an example, provide, using that as a second layer to make things really smart. That's really, really cool. It's essentially a really great way to create an even more wonderful interaction between an end user and the company they work with while using crypto rails, but in a way that abstracts some of the complexity while keeping the benefits.

It's so hard not to think about how the Internet evolved and how much this looks like that. When you move into the era of browsers and then eventually get encryption in the browsers and just the path that that technology took with HTP, SMTP, just getting simplified. It feels like we're on a similar arc here, but it's probably happening a lot faster in the Web3 context. First, you're 100% right in the sense that when I talk to my dad, he doesn't need to know what Oath is. But that's the thing we use every day every time we log into a website. And he doesn't need to know what HTTPS really does.

It just needs to know that it's secure. and we're, to your point, going through an identical evolution here, which is we used to expose a lot of the bare metal technology to folks, and that's a part of evolution of technology, and now we're creating more and more abstraction layers on top of that. And where dynamic plays is exactly that abstraction. If we do our job well, you should not need to know the name dynamic. If you're an end user logging into a site, you should not care about this stuff.

Just like you don't need to, if you're going into kind of the Wall Street Journal or New York Times, if you log in, you don't need to know it's powered by an off zero. You just need to have the same work. And so the abstractions there are being added, but to your point, they're being added extremely quickly, extremely quickly. And that is both great, but that also creates chaos, which is a lot of fun. But you're right. I think 4337 went into quote unquote production in March this year. And it's now being talked about, if I recall correctly, I think March, it's now being talked

about as the next thing. Alchemy, just a few weeks ago, announced their account abstraction tool set with another kind of a proposal called BRC 6-6900, which essentially creates even more interesting things you can do. And that's being taken to production. So the speed of innovation here is just insane. It's just massive, which is pretty good. It makes for a really fun company to kind of be a platform.

I can only imagine. I mean, yeah, the speed at which the infrastructure is moving is mind-boggling. And I guess the logical next question, maybe to bring it more to the commercial, is what are people building? And so where are you guys seeing the most adoption amongst your customer set in terms of what people are actually trying to build using this technology? This is the coolest thing about which is I get to wake up in the morning and kind of talk to a company that thinks about bringing real estate and land on chain so that I can in one click buy land somewhere. And then the next conversation is, how do you create these really cool social experiences around digital goods that could not exist before? And then there's a third

company that talks about how do you help artists with musical ownership? And then there's a fourth company that talks about improved trading fees for treasuries. For us, it really is starting to feel like saying crypto is like saying the internet in the sense that it's so wide in the types of use cases that you can use that it's not really one thing. But what you're starting to see being enabled really quickly using those crypto rails, but abstracting away the entire complexity of how things happen beneath the surface. By the way, you are also saying, seeing, that's not to say you're also seeing an optic, I think, in the usage of folks who understand what a wallet is, who want a branded wallet, who want to kind of benefit from

the other side of crypto, which is start on one site and go to a second site and use multiplayer mode. So we're seeing both of those happen very, very, very quick. It's basically every category, to your point, you're seeing adoption here in terms of people trying to build things on these chains, which I guess informs the next question of which chain. is going to win here or how do you see that playing out? Obviously, there will be multiple chains, but we've seen things like Coinbase launching an L2 this year. There's just a lot of movement on that side. So where are you seeing the most attention within the dynamic user base? I will say in advance that I've learned many times that I'm very bad at predicting the future.

So please don't take anything I say the prediction of what will happen. What we are seeing is first to your point, I think we're seeing within, we define the world as first, within the EVM ecosystem, so within the everything compatible with Ethereum, and then we define the world as other L1, so Solana and Sween, and Aptus, and flow, and so on. Within the EVM ecosystem, to your point, for a long time, we talked about L2 summer. So layer twos are starting to be added. I think we're finally seeing that. We're saying base at Coinbase launch, get massive traction with huge props to Jesse, who kind of created, pushed based to what it is today. So we're seeing a lot of developer activity there. We're getting asked a lot about that.

We're also seeing ZK Sync come up more and more. I think over the last week, we had two companies launch on ZK Sync, which is pretty awesome. We're seeing a lot of activity on Starkware. It's not an EVM compatible layer two. We talked about account abstraction and what you need to do. start where it comes in with built-in account abstraction. So, yeah, I have all these magical capabilities immediately. We're seeing a lot of that. We're seeing a lot of activity on Solana. Not as much as a year and a half ago, but I wouldn't count them out.

I think Bitcoin Ordonals started to pick up. I think there's fascinating work being done by the teams working on Lightning. Light Spark, as an example, is doing really cool work. I wouldn't rule out Bitcoin as an actual way to build Venmo-like experiences. at global scale or experiences of transferring money from one person to another on the other side of the world very, very quickly. So that's another chain that I saw. Where we're not seeing as much activity, I know I've mentioned a lot of folks where a lot of

places where we are, but where we're not seeing a lot of activity, I think are the meme chains that have started up. So I do think that developer activity is being drawn to folks that are prioritizing, building sustainable business and sustainable kind of chain for the very long term. I think FISA just added Solana's support. Yeah, I saw that. I mean, I guess this all highlights the need for interoperability. So I'd imagine that will be just a big theme here for the next few years.

It's just how do you connect these various chains and how do you actually connect them? 100%. I think that's to your point about the internet being rebuilt. That is a place where you're going to see massive activity. everything we just talked about over the last three minutes, I really hope no one else needs to ever talk about. At the infrastructure level, we should know it, but I really hope that I do not have to explain to any of my friends

the difference between flow and base and Tron. It should just kind of work. I really think we're going to see more and more layers, just folks just abstract that completely using solutions like there's zero and axelor, etc. they completely abstract all that stuff where you literally just go in and do the thing that you want to do and not worry about any of this technology. So as we're talking about just all the rapid advances on the infrastructure side and the new applications that are being built throughout this quote unquote bear market, which by the way is over,

not surprisingly, you guys have grown really, really fast through this time. And today you're announcing a $13.5 million series A. So first of all, congratulations. We're excited to be a of it. And second of all, just talk a little bit more about what's next, what you're going to do with the capital. Yeah, absolutely. So first thank you. To your point, our goal is to be kind of to abstract things away from Bell. My reason for existing as a company is can I make your life as a developer better? Can I abstract a way of thing that you should not need to think about and just have it work? And more than that, can I allow you to build a business that you couldn't have easily built before.

We're going to spend the next two, three years of our life is essentially that. How do I enable you as a developer to build a business that you couldn't necessarily build very quickly? Think about it like they stripe enabled a significant amount of businesses that were really hard to build before that. Shopify enabled a significant amount of businesses that were really hard to build before that. My role is to allow developers to build these businesses that were extremely difficult to build before in a slightly easier way and take a small share of the pain and abstract that

away from folks. And so you're going to see us spend our next two or three years is essentially more and more tools around kind of user management, authentication, and bad wallets that do exactly that, let folks get started and building their real world asset related business or building kind of a social experience or building music experience or building things around physical and digital ownership or anything like that in a way where they don't have to think about, hey, will this user have a wallet? Will they not have a wallet? Hey, would this user be able to figure this flow out?

How do I think about gas fees? How do I think about onboarding? How do you think about account recovery? All of that, that's our job to abstract the way. We're in the very early days of that. We talked about this earlier, right? But things are moving very, very quickly. And literally the last hour of 40 minutes of the conversation we had, our role is to

eliminate anyone else from having that conversation with anyone. That's where we're spending our money. Most of it is essentially going to building more things that enable that. And if we're successful, and I hope that you actually don't need to hear about or learn about dynamic at all, but rather kind of get cool experiences that couldn't have existed before. Now, you guys are off to an incredible start on that front. It has to be really strange to run a business where you're in an industry where there's been some massive frauds. Obviously, the price of these assets has come down quite a bit. But within your company, things are going

really smoothly and you're adding a lot of customers. It's got to be a weird time to operate as an entrepreneur. Absolutely. I think the market has not been without his challenges over the last two or three years. But I think folks forget that that's true for any industry. Any industry that goes through massive growth faces plateaus, faces crises, faces threats to the industry as a whole. Our job is to really focus. We talked about kind of chains and things like that.

We think about two sides to crypto. There's the pricing and kind of the asset side of crypto and there's the technology side of crypto. We are fundamentally focused on kind of the technology side of crypto. I think still to this day, folks don't necessarily realize the most of the most of the technology side of crypto. the massive impact of a shared rail, crypto financial rail system that is global in nature.

And a shared identity system that is global in nature and potentially shared social system, social network systems are global in nature. Those are fundamentally changed the way we work. And to just materialize that, think about email as a shared data exchange system and it's a decentralized system, right? Email, you can use an outlook.

I can use Gmail and we can commute. and we can communicate with the same protocol. Think about that for financial rails. Think about that for social rails, for identity rails. People are still underestimating the value of the technology here. And so where we're focused, but we're saying on the inside is that folks are actually leveraging this technology at faster and faster rates. And so we're inherently just focused on that.

And so the rest, in our opinion, is a little bit noise of the ups and downs when folks like the industry or they don't like this industry. And that's fine. But the thing that excites us is that we're seeing more folks built today than built yesterday and more folks built yesterday than built two days ago. That is the cool thing about this part. Well, I always love catching up with you because I feel like I'm seeing a year or two into the future based on what you guys are building and who you're building it for. So maybe as a way to wrap up, where can we send people to learn more about dynamic? Obviously, you've just raised this capital. You'll be hiring people. Where do you want to send people? Absolutely. So first, I would

urge everyone to go to dynamic.xyz and check out the demo, check out the different components of what we offer. We are hiring to your point. We need phenomenal folks. So check out our careers page. If you ever need anything at all, I'm on Twitter, DM me. My DMs are open or join our Slack community. Go to our blog posts. I am very biased by I think there are great articles there that talk about some of the stuff we talked about, like how to think about account abstraction, how to think about abstracting a lot of these components. And so if you're interested about this topic, I would spend some time there and read and send me any questions you have. Again, my DMs are open. I love geeking out about this stuff. I can do it until people get bored and close their Zoom conversations on me.

But at any point, if anyone listening wants to chat and kind of jam about this, I'm available. That's awesome. Well, Tai, thanks so much for rejoining us on the podcast. We'll have to have you on again for the triple header at some point in the near future. So appreciate you joining. The same. Thank you so much. Thanks for listening to another episode of On the Brink with Castle Island. To find out more about Castle Island, visit castle island.

Visit castle island.vc. To listen to all of our podcast episodes, please go to On the Brink dashpodcast.com or just click on the tab in our website. Thanks for listening.