On The Brink with Castle Island - Weekly News Roundup 12/6 (North Korea, Crypto War Games, Huobi) (EP.23)

Episode Date: December 6, 2019

Matt and Nic from Castle Island Ventures review the top stories of the week in the cryptoasset industry. This week's topics include:  - Deals - North Korea Case - War Gaming Event at Harvard Kennedy School - Personnel Moves - Huobi PlusToken Dumping

Brought down by bad mortgage investments, Lehman, which has 25,000 employees, will be liquidated. The federal government loans American International Group, AIG, $85 billion. This is a different kind of market, and the Fed is asleep. The federal government is stepping it to stabilize Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the two mortgage giants that have been threatened by the housing crisis. The Bank of England has pumped 75 billion pounds more into Britain's ailing economy with a new round of quantitative easing. You print a couple trillion dollars, and all of a sudden, people start to worry.

So out of this worry, we have something called a Bitcoin. Bitcoin. Welcome to On the Brink. I'm Matt Walsh. And I'm Nick Carter. And Nick, we're back. We took a week off, but we are back with a weekly news roundup. Our deepest apologies and regrets about taking a week off. We'll never do it again. Will we never do it again?

We will likely do it again. We will potentially do it again. But we'll make up for it. We've had some great interviews to make up for it. We had a great last two weeks on the pod, man. we had John Pfeffer with a marathon podcast a couple hours and then we had Dan Medeshesheski formerly of Circle Trade dropping some very interesting tidbits around the liquidity landscape talking about what the 2017 run-up was like talking about tether just getting into the weeds

on a lot of topics the most animated podcast we've ever done and we've got some great ones coming up in the weeks to come as well so we're going to keep on trying to go deep on topics we're and try to keep this a, it's not a generalist podcast. Yeah, so there's plenty of podcasts that satisfy the kind of Bitcoin for beginners use case. We're unapologetic about being perhaps slightly more highbrow. We just like to go in the weeds. It's purely selfish. And also to surface voices that are not on the crypto podcast circuit and Dan is perfect.

So is John, you know, actually. So we're going to keep fiending trying to find these people. So we think we have a good guess lined up as well. And if anyone has suggestions, just get in touch with us over Twitter. Also, some of you notice that occasionally there's some interference that you can hear in the background of these podcasts. The reason for that is that there is a radio tower about 50 yards away from our office. So this is, I believe it's the MIT radio broadcast tower. It's on the roof of a building here in Cambridge.

So occasionally that sneaks in, but we think we figured out how to mitigate it at this point. I think it's a pirate radio signal. I think it's unlicensed spectrum. Yeah, so if you ever hear like country music in the background of our interviews, like there's a couple you could hear it. It's because there's AM radio like leaking into our equipment. Very unfortunate. So if anyone wants to buy us a podcast studio, that would be cool too. All right. So why don't we get into it for this week? As always, let's start with some of the deals in the fundraising stories so that folks know who has money and who's going to be hiring. So the big one this week, so Figure, which is a company founded by SoFi's founder, Mike Cagney, they raised $103 million in a

series C led by Morgan Creek Digital, had participation from DCG, DCM, Ribbet, and a number of others. So this is, you know, I would, I guess I would call this a blockchain company. It's a private blockchain, but they are doing home equity lines of credit on a blockchain. It looks like they're also going to be pushing into other forms of lending. So really kind of looks like a, you know, I guess it would be a SOFI competitor at some level as they push into student loans. And they're using the provenance blockchain to record all of their loans. So big ground there.

And then there's one other this week. So there's a company called Xerion, which is a company building decentralized finance services. They raised $2 million in a round led by placeholder, blockchain ventures, and NOSIS. So quick week on the deal front, but keep an eye on those two companies. Let's move on to the news. And definitely the biggest story of the past week in the cryptocurrency space has been that the United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York has announced the rest of the news. of Virgil Griffith. His LinkedIn profile says that he's a research scientist for the Ethereum Foundation. So Griffith is accused of traveling to North Korea in providing highly technical information on how the company can evade sanctions in laundering money using cryptocurrency. So he's being charged with violating the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, the IEEPA, and that carries a charge with a maximum sentence of 20 years in prison. So this one has deservedly gotten a ton of coverage, both in the mainstream press as well as the crypto press and crypto Twitter. What did you make of this story? Yeah, there's a lot of hot

takes you can have on this and they've been flying already. The first thing to note is that, of course, these are just charges, which haven't necessarily been proven in court of law. So we would be remiss if we didn't say that. The accusations look really serious, if true. The interesting thing here is that the complaint focused a lot on his, the information he disseminated at this conference in Pyongyang, which seems to be essentially publicly available information on the internet. So I'm a little bit nervous about a precedent set if we're talking about disseminating otherwise publicly available information about how cryptocurrency works. If that meets the threshold of like helping a regime evade sanctions, you know, that could potentially be used to. target other, you know, cryptocurrency evangelists, developers, etc. Obviously, he tempted fate in an enormous way by physically traveling to North Korea and

doing a symbolic transfer of what appears to be one ETH between North and South Korea. So there's a lot of things that he did wrong there. But it certainly makes me a little bit nervous about the state's ability to interfere with people that work professionally in, you know, in the crypto industry. So I guess that's one take. I mean, I came at this from a slightly different angle. And it seemed like a number of his public comments were around trying to bring the technology into North Korea. But I think it's incredibly naive to think that going and speaking at a conference in North Korea would actually put you in front of people that are impoverished. And that in any way doing that gesture, doing that conference, would uplift people living in effectively what is the most oppressive regime in the world right now. It just strikes me as really just stupid. Yeah, Alex Gladstein, part of the Human Rights Foundation, had a good point about this.

When you go to North Korea on these chaperone trips, you're not exposed to normal people from the state, and you're mostly or almost exclusively exposed to the local elites there. So this is not a case of someone being unjustly prosecuted for evangelizing crypto to some downtrodden population. The only people he was really interfacing with were, you know, North Korean elites, members of the party, et cetera, from what I can tell about how these visits and conferences work. So, you know, like, it's not always that the law and morality intersect. They certainly don't perfectly map. But I'd say this is not a case where he was really sincerely trying to help some, you know, impoverished population that was somehow marginalized.

He wouldn't have had the ability to do that. Yeah, it's a very tricky situation. Obviously, there's lessons we can take away in terms of the state's willingness to prosecute. But leaving that aside, it was an extremely foolish thing to do. And North Korea, people forget this, were technically a war with them. They're a hostile power. Yeah, so we're going to see how this plays out. I mean, this guy just obviously is a big attention seeker.

He'd been writing on Twitter that he was going. He'd applied for permission with the State Department. Ben rejected, went anyway, went in the back way through China. And tweeted about it. And so it looks like he's hired Brian Klein at Baker-Marcle. as this lawyer who's definitely one of the best lawyers in the world. So we'll see how this plays out. But I don't think I have much more to say about this.

I guess this was the big story for the best few days, though. Why don't we move on maybe in lighter news? So a big development here. So Kelly Loughler, the CEO of BACT, which is the crypto asset subsidiary of the Intercontinental Exchange, has been appointed to the U.S. Senate in Georgia by Governor Brian Kemp. And so the way that this worked is that Senator Johnny Isaacson is retiring at the end of this month. He has three years left on his term.

And so Donald Trump actually was looking for someone else to get appointed here. This is somewhat of a controversial pick. But Kelly Loughler has officially been named. And so she will become the senator from Georgia, the junior senator from Georgia, and finish out this three-year term. So a lot of angles on this one, one would be just what will the impact be on the crypto? asset space to have a senator who actually understands this stuff and who's run a business in the space. It seems like every day our list of allies in Congress grows. We've got Warren Davidson in the House. The Libra hearings exposed the ignorance that many policymakers have towards this asset

class, but also the fact that some of these people really have done their homework. Kelly will immediately be the highest profile, crypto industry, individual, or affiliated individual in Congress. So great news, I think, for the industry, especially in terms of some of these bills that are floating around in the house relating to, you know, token taxonomy and stable coins. It would be very useful to have someone who's actually smart about this stuff on the ground. Definitely. So I couldn't agree more with that. I think the other angle here that's going to be interesting, is that who's going to take over for BACC? So BAC raised $182 billion, or sorry, $182 million as part of a round, a series A round, $700 million plus valuation.

So they're building out a crypto asset custodian as well as a trading platform, so trading infrastructure for futures and other derivatives products, now options on top of those futures. And so this is, you know, one of the most ambitious projects in the entire industry. it'll be interesting to see who gets the reins here. And I think that some of BAC's competitors right now are potentially licking their chops a little bit. I think that Kelly Lofler is a super accomplished executive, actually married to Jeff Sprecker, the CEO of the Intercontinental Exchange. And so I would imagine that there's a little bit of a feeding frenzy to start to pitch some of their customers right now and see if maybe they'd be interested in jumping ship.

and we'll see. Adam White's also over there now, so he's heard some rumors that maybe he'll be getting a bump up. So we'll see who gets that job. Yeah, back to a slow start, but they've really rallied and they have some meaningful volumes these days.

They sure do. So another thing we wanted to get into was this event that was held over at the Harvard Kennedy School last week. We wrote about it in our newsletter last week. So it was called Digital Currency Wars, a National Security Crisis Simulation. And it was a live simulation,

simulation that was put on, a lot of it was student driven, actually, but included some extraordinarily high-profile people going through this role-playing exercise. So Ash Carter was part of it, so former Secretary of Defense. Gary Gensler, former chairman of the U.S. Commoddody Futures Trading Commission, had Nahad, Nerula, the director of the DCI, Larry Summers, former Secretary of Treasury, Richard Verma, the ambassador, former ambassador to India. So some extraordinarily high-profile people. And basically, it was a simulation, almost a wargaming exercise that covered a scenario two years from now, a hypothetical scenario where North Korea has dramatically advanced their nuclear weapons program and is actively deploying test missiles. And the premise was that they had gotten

a lot of raw material and been able to procure a number of warheads, a number of, you know, I guess very dangerous substances to allow them to build out their capabilities. But they had actually procured a lot of that using China's central bank issued digital currency as a payment network. And the idea was the U.S.'s ability to actually exert influence through the SWIFT network and to monitor some of these transactions has been debased to some level in the sense that since China's central bank digital currency is an option, the U.S. would not have the ability to actually see transactions that are happening on that network and to advance it. And so I just thought this was a very real possibility that this National Security Council meeting that was being

kind of put out there as a role playing exercise, almost a scenario planning exercise, that might actually not be that unrealistic of a scenario in my mind. The question is if the next president has a crypto czar, who's the number one candidate for that job? Well, in this role playing exercise, it was Neha who was playing that role of the Cryptozar, and there was some interesting back and forth with Larry Summers, who was definitely playing a role. But one of the things that Neha proposed as part of this initiative was that the United States government should do a public-private partnership to issue a digital version of the dollar, as effectively a way to allow for post-rate settlement as well as cross-border payments, but effectively to upgrade some of the

existing payment infrastructure and get us to the next generation. Larry Summers was kind of funny and he pushed back and totally dismissed it as part of the simulation. But Gary Gensler was also a big part of it and he was, you know, appeared like he was in favor too. So I could see either of those being a real, Neha or Gary Gensler being a Cryptozar at some point in the future. It's funny how these are still, these proposals are still kind of at the model UN stage, but they might become concrete in the very near future. It's kind of crazy. If you had told me three or four years ago that the people on that stage, Ash Carter, Larry Summers, Gary Gensler would be talking about

Bitcoin and talking about cryptocurrency, central bank issue digital currencies in that type of a venue. I would have been really surprised pleasantly so, by the way. It's just kind of crazy to see this technology has really burst onto the mainstream. And there was one part of this simulation where Naha was calling out the fact that North Korea had likely gotten a lot of a lot of Bitcoin by virtue of being behind a lot of these crypto exchange hacks, and that part of the way that they had financed this nuclear weapons program had been as a result of just deploying hackers onto all of these exchanges. And to me, that's entirely possible that that's what we're seeing right now. Yeah, that's more fact than fiction, I'd say. I think it's kind of a badly

kept secret that North Korea has a significant contention of hackers that just trying to exploit exchanges. Because for the first time, if you perform a theft, you know, virtually, you actually get to collect your spoils without having to physically be present or rely on the reversible payments or anything. So it's entirely plausible to me that North Korea is behind most of the exchange hacks even. I agree with that. The other thing was that there was this real appreciation for the fact that the U.S. government has weaponized the SWIFT network and is using it as an enforcement arm of the government. And so that was something that was repeatedly said as fact. And I feel a few years ago that would have been a controversial thing to say, but it's pretty clear

that that's how these folks were thinking about it, that the SWIFT network really does allow the U.S. government to have greater visibility into these transactions that are happening. and it is a policy tool. So it'll be interesting. I could imagine that once central bank issued digital currency is up and running in China, this could be a real scenario. Yeah, the Swift thing is kind of a double-edged sword, in my opinion, because it gives you significant discretion over what activities are financially permissible

on a global basis, thanks to the U.S. having essentially a line item veto through Swift, which is ostensibly based in Belgium, I believe, but ultimately effectively controlled by the U.S., which is great, but it's almost like if you abuse that privilege as you being the central node in the network, people will eventually defect and lose faith. And we hear louder and louder noises, even from Europeans about the need to reduce their dependence on Swift and obtain more discretion in terms of what transactions are allowed. We even see various European countries that are allies of the U.S. trying to route around these U.S. controlled financial system. They might want to do business with Iran, for instance.

We've seen some attempts to do that from the French and the Italian. So I feel like you can only abuse your privilege for so long before people become totally disillusioned. Yeah, and the other thing is just the security of the network. So Swift has been subject of hacks from North Korea. The Bangladesh. Bangladesh, Central Bank. There's been a number of other attacks as well. So there's a big question around just whether or not the Swift network

from an infrastructure perspective can actually persist for the next 10 years. So that was great. And that's actually online. So you can see this entire simulation on YouTube and definitely recommend that you check it out. All right. So why don't we talk about some personnel news? So did you see that the former CFTC chairman, Chris John Carlo, is joining Wilkie Farr and Gallagher as senior counsel.

Yeah, and with a mandate to work on crypto themes, right? Yeah, so he said his stated priorities are to replace LIBOR with an American benchmark and to be an advocate for a blockchain-based digital dollar. So central bank digital currency, it sounds like, or maybe bank issued dollars. Who knows how that'll work. It'll be interesting to see if the narrative flips from crypto being hostile to the to being strongly favorable to the dollar, if, for instance, more dollars get inserted in wrapped form into any of these blockchains.

Yeah, we, I guess we're pretty bullish on this tokenized dollar as a potential, maybe this is already the killer use case for public blockchains. It's just wrapping dollars and having them transact on public blockchains. Yeah, I'll admit I was very dismissive of this idea at first, but if you look at something like the volumes of Tether and USDC, they're starting to eclipse virtually every other native token or asset circulating. On Ethereum, for instance, Teller will do more volume in dollar terms than Ether than Etherium does on the Ethereum network. So it seems like there's an insatiable demand globally for these kind of less permissioned, very transportable, bare asset style digital

dollars. So I see no reason that would abate. I agree. Another story this week was about Polo. Why don't you get into this one? What happened with Polo this week? Man, Polo, what a story. So we went into the prehistory and the origins of the relationship between Polo and Circle last week with Dan. So definitely recommend listening to that if you're interested in the early story, which is also an insane tale. But so, Polo was spun out of circle by the syndicate, and it was rumored that Justin's son was really the major entity within that syndicate. I would say that it's not even a syndicate as much as just Justin.

Yeah, it's an open secret that it was really just Justin's son. And then the public-facing identity of Polo shifted to being much more favorable towards Tron after the spin out. Shocker, unsurprisingly. The founder of Digibite then went on Twitter to assail Tron, which he perceives as being centralized and misleading and so on. And then immediately Polo delisted Digibite in response, which is the pettiest thing, but also just hilarious. I don't know. I kind of love this stuff. It makes the industry look incredibly juvenile, but it's also just token founders fighting with each other.

So the listeners might ask what the hell is Digabyte? Well, I mean, long-term market participants will know Digibite. Digibite was one of those original Bitcoin clones. I believe their claim to fame was that they had something like five hash functions, which you would decal through. Don't ask me how I know this stuff. Yeah, it was just a proof of work coin, kind of a Bitcoin clone with some small alterations. I believe it was meant to be somehow faster than Bitcoin.

Of course, most of these myths have been busted at this point. But, yeah, Digibite is a real throwback to a prior era of crypto. Well, definitely fun times in the crypto world. This Poloniac's acquisition is going to be interesting to see how this gets integrated. Maybe Justin's son will revive Poloniacs. I mean, it's really stagnated for the last couple of years now. Who knows? Did you see Jack Dorsey's tweet this week?

Yeah, it was a little strange. So here's the tweet. So sad to be leaving the continent for now, speaking about Africa. So Africa will define the future, in parentheses, especially the Bitcoin one. Not sure where yet, but I'll be living here for three to six months in mid-2020. Grateful, I was able to experience a small part. So it sounds like Jack Dorsey is moving to Africa. Yeah, I think maybe.

be some of the larger shareholders at Square and Twitter might have some questions about that. But it's interesting that he mentions the Bitcoin issue there. Certainly if you look at local Bitcoin's data on a per capita basis, places like Nigeria and Kenya are very active in those peer-to-peer markets for Bitcoin. And of course, Kenya has some paces. So in some parts of Africa, people are accustomed to this notion of digital money or mobile first money. It's often said that Africa will do this leapfrogging thing with technology whereby they'll skip whatever the intermediate step was and go right to the latest iteration with mobile banking being a great example. So it's very interesting that Jack thinks that Africa is going to be

central in the Bitcoin story, certainly very plausible to me. Yeah, I thought that was interesting that he mentioned Bitcoin there. The other tweet that was fascinating this week was Balaji Srinivasa's tweet that says, as the decade ends, the biggest unicorn of the 2010s wasn't Uber, Airbnb, or Snap. It was Bitcoin. And this is kind of crazy to think about. I mean, the largest unicorn of the last decade was effectively something that had no VC participation and we don't even know who started it. Is that crazy? Yeah, although Uber could

potentially catch Bitcoin in the next couple of years. I don't know if it's eminently likely, especially not after the headlines today, but Bitcoin is still smaller than many of those S&B 500 or a few of those S&B 500 companies. Yeah, what's the people like to compare Apple's cash on the balance sheet, which typically is larger than the entire market cap of Bitcoin. It certainly is. Yeah. So, but certainly interesting and definitely has shaped the way that I think these token, you know, the token craziness of 2017 in my mind was a big function of the fact that almost every VC not only missed Bitcoin, but they missed Ethereum, which kind of looked like something they could have had the opportunity to invest in and none of them did. And so then you

saw this sort of foamowing into all of the tokens. Yeah, I totally buy that. Yeah, call it. a Bitcoin derangement syndrome, you know, you see this unbelievable investment that was mostly retail driven that you missed out on. You miss out on it again with Ethereum, and so you're determined not to miss it for a third time. So then you fund some worthless, like new smart contract protocol, which is completely soulless and paradoxically will fail because it has so much VC backing, which is really contrary to the ethos of this industry. But we have to let these experiments fail for people to learn their lesson. So speaking of potentially failed experiments,

there was a civil lawsuit that was filed against the founder of an ICO called Stocks Technologies. So you might actually remember stocks because this was the ICO that Floyd Mayweather tweeted about when he had all the wads of $100 bills on the private jet. So that's this kind of. company. And so they conducted an ICO in 2017 the lawsuit, and again, it's just a lawsuit. So it's an allegation. The allegation is that the token sale proceeds were used by the founder to purchase an Israeli soccer team and to fund a blockchain R&D lab at an Israeli university. So I mean, I guess in the grand scheme of ICO proceeds, that's actually like a, you know, that's a surprisingly,

at least that's a tangible use case for an ICO proceeds. They didn't just steal the money in abscond with it, I suppose. Yeah, they got some assets on the, on the balance sheet. The team in question was the Betar Jerusalem Football Club, and they apparently also used the proceeds of the ICO to buy some real estate. So the founder here is Moshe Hogueg, who some of you will know, he is a serial ICO issuer, very central in the Israeli scene. And, you know, many of the Cryptoler has said that the risk to so many of these ICOs would be from civil lawsuits, not strictly from the SEC. And a few precedents set there in terms of class actions could mean really swift resolution of some of these civil lawsuits.

So we've yet to see this really play out because you have these fragmented global token holder bases that are pretty bad at organizing. That's one issue that I think prevents effective, you know, collective defense here. but certainly I think we're going to see many, many more of these civil lawsuits against ICO issuers. Whatever happened to that idea that we were going to do a spotlight of all these people that had put their names on ICOs. So Floyd Mayweather is a great example. Remember Paris Hilton had one, the Lydian token or something like that? Yeah, but I guess they're not trying to recast themselves as like Bitcoiners now or anything.

I mean, I'm more interested in people that are now trying to, you know, the hatchet and claimed that they were never involved in ICOs but are still looking to work in the crypto industry. So for those of you listening, we still haven't gotten anyone who has agreed to do our ICO Truth and Reconciliation Commission segment. So we're still holding out hope. So if you were an ICO promoter and you want to come clean, you let us know we can even disguise your voice. It'll be great. We want to have someone on the podcast that tells us exactly how it was that they came to have their white paper translated into 37 different languages and talk about the whole process of actually doing their ICO.

Yeah, so we haven't decided exactly where we're going to title this segment yet. It might be Shikkoin Inquisition, token Otto Defe, for those of you that have read Voltaire. You'll know the reference. Anyway, we want someone to come on the show and do that. All right. the coin metrics chart of the week in our newsletter was really interesting. Let's talk about the Hwobi situation here. Yeah, so the number one exchange in terms of Bitcoin on deposit is always really been

Coinbase. But the number two changes all the time. So the number two has over the last couple of years, it's been Crackin, Hwobie, BitTRAX, BitTRAX, BitTRAX, BitT, so they've all taken turns at that number two spot. by far the outlier in that group in terms of recent growth is Hwobi. So they have about 350,000 Bitcoins in their vaults, which is a lot. And in the last three or four months, it's grown by 150,000. So they've had a huge amount of inbound deposits.

And the rumors are that this is due to the plus token Ponzi scheme liquidating their Bitcoin on Hwobie. So this last part is still circumstantial. It's on 100% verified, but it certainly looks like that could be the case. And so that's kind of the nice thing about Bitcoin is you can monitor the balances for all these institutions which use it and see how their fates are waxing and waning. So really fascinating to see that who will be in terms of deposits of the number two exchange in crypto right now. But it might be a byproduct of this plus token situation.

And so how exactly do you think that this point? Plus token unwinding is happening. It's just that the company is selling off their Bitcoin and just like market selling? What do you think is happening here? So the rumor was that they had 180K to 200K Bitcoin. So really a colossal amount. And then it's not clear whether the founders are the ones dumping the coins or whether they were seized, for instance, by the authorities.

So a lot of the founders of Plus token got arrested. And then so we're effectively. like tracking the on-chain movements here and we can see this happening in real time. Yeah, yeah. So it's possible through some detective work to characterize the plus token wallets and then track them. And it seems like Hoobi is the main destination for them. Any predictions on how much longer this cell pressure keeps up? It's not clear, but it's potentially quite conditionally good. I think now that the market is collectively aware that there's this overhang and this really committed ask on the order.

book, I think once that lets up, it's going to be extremely positive because there will be this, like, release of tension. I can't believe how big this Ponzi scheme ended up getting. Yeah. And, you know, you can look back the last year and say, well, it looks like this really sharp appreciation we had in the earlier part of the year, up to 14K may have been a function of people buying Bitcoin to buy the plus token Ponzi. And so then the, The fact that we gave up most of those gains is just a fact that that demand for Bitcoin was transient. It was being used on a pass-through basis for this Ponzi. We certainly saw the same effect with Ethereum and the ICOs where people bought Ether to buy ICOs,

and then the ICOs liquidated to Ether. So the price appreciated rapidly, but it gave it all up because the demand was transient. It was passed-through demand. So we saw a little bit of that with Bitcoin. I think that explains a lot of the price action this year. really drives home the urgency of deeply understanding who's using this chain, whether it's genuine demand or short-term demand, like with the plus token situation. It's crazy. How did these Ponzi's even get going? We had never even heard of this thing

until recently. It's just staggering how much Bitcoin flew into this. Yeah, it's unbelievable. We don't get good Ponzi's like this in the United States anymore. So speaking of bridging the divide between the east and the west, on Monday, we're dropping great episode with Alex Pack, who is a general partner at Dragonfly Capital. So he has a very keen understanding of the Chinese markets and what this new blockchain phenomenon in China actually means. So we dig into that. So stay tuned for that one on Monday.

Yeah, that's a great episode. And then we have an episode coming the week after. someone that I think people will be very excited to hear from, someone building critical infrastructure in the Bitcoin custody and trade execution space. So a couple of great episodes coming up, and we will also be back next week with the News Roundup. So thanks for listening and have a great weekend, everyone.