On The Brink with Castle Island - Weekly Roundup 09/12/25 (Hyperliquid stablecoin, CBOE continuous futures, stablecoin interest) (EP.665)

Episode Date: September 12, 2025

Matt and Nic are back for another week of news and deals. In this episode: We reminisce about the fork wars Figure goes public Gemini is slated to list The Winklevoss Quintenz drama rumbles on DAT updates CLARITY updates The fight over stablecoins paying interest continues Prediction markets and sports betting SwissBorg is hacked The CBOE is launching BTC and ETH "continuous futures" Harberger taxes  

Matt Walsh and Nick Carter are partners at Castle Island Ventures. All Vees expressed by them or the guests on this podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Castle Island Ventures. Guests and host may maintain positions in the assets discussed in this podcast. You should not treat any opinion expressed by anyone on this podcast as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only is an expression of their personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only. Brought down by Bad Mortgage Investments, Lehman, which has 25,000 employees will be liquidated.

The Federal Government Loans American International Group, AI, IG 85 billion dollars. This is a different kind of market and the Fed is a sleek. The federal government is stepping it to stabilize Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the two mortgage giants that have been threatened by the housing crisis. The Bank of England has pumped 75 billion pounds more to Britain's ailing economy with a new round of quantitative easing. You print a couple trillion dollars and all of a sudden people start to worry.

So out of this worry, we have something called the Bitcoin. Welcome to On the Brink. I'm Matt Walsh. And I'm Rick Harder. Recording this one, I'm on a hiatus from Boston Blockchain Week. So I was just over there, drove back to record this podcast, then I'm going back. I'm on a panel later. How's it going so far?

It's good. Ian Kane and John O'Kee for the host this year, as in years past. They're doing a good job. I was over at the Abby Johnson keynote, Ian Kahn interviewed Abby. This is good. Talking about the history of Fidelity's efforts in the space and what they're up to. What did she have to say? Talked about some of the early days, things that were interesting, all of the use cases that

were attempted and how kind of triangulated around being a bridge between the blockchains and the financial services space. So I thought that was quite good. Well, over 10 years that they've been doing Bitcoin stuff now. Yeah. Think about it. Over a decade, it's crazy. Crazy to think. I mean, simpler times back then. But I was getting all my information back in those days off of Reddit and Bitcoin Talk forums. I used to read Bitcoin Talk religiously. Yeah. And I never made an account. I didn't even know how.

I didn't either. Remember the fork wars, the Reddit community forked off? And there was like the big block Reddit and the regular block Reddit. Yeah, because R slash Bitcoin was, I guess the accusation was controlled by the small blockers. Yeah, it was that guy famous, remember? And then that's right. And this big blockers were really mad that the, small blockers like seized they were they kind of always this is so long ago but they would always

claim that like the big the small blockers controlled all the important forms and so that's why you know the the big block forks never took off and it's like really like you just post anywhere you want you can like post anywhere on the internet and so that's why you're losing because you don't control the moderation to one forum although there's somewhat true didn't that guy, Thamos, he did control a lot of the message boards back then. Yeah,

sure, but like, just make your own rival message boards and if what you're saying is right, people join it. But so they never took responsibility for the fact that the ideas were bad. Because they always had these sinister conspiracies

about Blockstream and whatever. Big Blocks was an interesting idea at the time. I had a, like I've talked about in this podcast, I was partial to that theory for a little while. I mean, many blockchains have now taken that idea to its logical extreme. Like Salana is a great example.

So it worked in some respects, you know? That's true. But it just wasn't for Bitcoin. That's fine. I feel like the news just kind of moved a little bit slower back then. We'd see some posts that said, hey, I think Satoshi's coins just woke up and you spend like an hour going through a message word posts to try to figure out if it's true or not. I guess these days it's more of a tweet.

although crypto Twitter is kind of waning. I don't know. It feels like more of the discussions are happening in telegram chats and things like that. It's had a bit of a resurgence this week with the hyperliquid drama. I don't know what to call it governance situation. Yeah. This is a very slow week for news. That was probably the main thing that happened.

I think that's right. Yeah. So we'll talk about that. Before we do, Castle Island content this week, Wyatt sat down with Austin Federa, founder of Double Zero, talk about fiber optic networks, blockchains, those good episode. And then in terms of

deals, not a lot of deals either, for that matter. First up, we have inversion capital. It's a private equity fund, planning to acquire traditional businesses and transition them onto blockchain rails. Interesting. There is 26 million from Dragonfly,

Vanek, Lightspeed, and others. Then it's Wildcat Labs. This is an under-collateralized lending protocol. They raised 3.5 million from robot ventures and Triton Capital. Then you have Guild Finance that's Guild with a Y, an institutional staking company. They raised 1.5 million from Light Shift and others. I must have missed this one this week. Sensible, a Bitcoin yield platform was acquired by Coinbase. Next up, NASDAQ plans to invest 50 million in Gemini, a crypto, a crypto.

That's pretty interesting development. You know, NASDAQ getting on the cap table of a big exchange. I wonder if they'd like to own that asset at some point. And the last one is figure. So this is a blockchain-based lender. They also run a marketplace business. They raised $787 million in their IPO today. Today is Thursday.

Stock is up right now 36% from the offering. So another successful IPO. I mean, $787 million. There's a good haul here. I wonder if they'll be acquisitive. And all these IPOs are still having their day one pops. They really are. Almost every IPO I can think of has had a pop.

So for now, the market is still showing an appetite. I mean, figures look like a pretty solid business there on that HELOC product. That's the lion's share of the revenue coming off the HELOC, the home equity lines of credit. You ever looked at that market? I know nothing about it. Absolutely nothing. I mean, I think figure is probably identified this and is making it a lot better. But last time I had looked at that market, which I guess, to be fair, was maybe close to

10 years ago, it's just impossible to like get a hellock. You have to go in person. You know, it's really cumbersome paperwork intensive. Not surprising that that's a category they would go after. So can you explain this hyperliquid thing to me? they're having some sort of bake-off for the USDA ticker. What's going on there? Yeah, that's basically what's going on.

So Hyperliquid is, of course, a tremendously successful trading protocol, trading platform. And USDA is thought to be the default stablecoin ticker. They're having basically a bake-off, an auction to see which stable coin gets that ticker. And what's interesting is that we were looking at this at the end of last week. Something like 8 to 10% of Circle's total USDC supply is tied to hyperliquid. And so if Circle were to not become the dominant platform there, if their share were to wane, it's a pretty material impact on their revenue. And what happened over the past few days is that you've just seen a flurry of proposals here.

So do you have the list in front of who's put in a bid? I mean, you have Agora, Athena, Paxos is tied to one of them. Sky. And then this other company, Native Markets. Yeah, Native Markets is, if you look at the Polymarket, they're the favorites to win. So Native Markets is the kind of the hyperliquid OG, if there even is such a thing in this early days of hyperliquid. But they're the team that is probably closest to the metal on hyperliquid. Have you seen this meme that's like defy governance and the poll is like what color Lamborghini?

should the founder buy? And then the founder's like, I like yellow. And then it goes 95% yellow. Yeah. This is basically the idea being that people just do what the founder says. Yeah. Is this that? I mean, native markets, no one had ever heard of them before a week ago.

Well, I don't, it's probably not fair to say that the founder, in this case, Jeff, is, is putting his thumb on it. But what happened is that I think the way it's structured at the governance level is that the, the validators have a lot of say. And so you can, you know, signal your vote, so to speak, with the validators. And so I think it's really that cohort that is going to make the decision. Can someone explain to me why, well, it's just you and me here? So can you explain to me why circles up 14% today, given that they're going to lose? And they're going to lose, what is it, 8% of supply, presumably,

because they're not going to be the native coin for hyperliquid? Well, so that's the thing is it doesn't mean that that goes away. There will, of course, be other stable coins on hyperliquid. So some of this comes down to do you think that USDA, what is it, USDAH, is that going to be the default kind of trading pair for activity on the platform? And I think people think it probably will. So, but you know, you'll still have USDC and USDT on hyperliquid. but yeah, I mean, talk to a public equities person to understand any of the stuff that goes on in public markets.

I couldn't for the life of me. I will never be able to explain circles post-IPO performance. It's inexplicable. I mean, there's just not a lot of ways to play the stable coin thesis on the public markets, I suppose. It's the only exposure, I mean, aside from Coinbase. They do have this Circle Payments Network idea. So, you know, if successful, also with our. Does this get to become like a Visa MasterCard competitor?

I actually think that's what I think Nick Vanek put out a really good tweet last week talking about Stripe and sort of their aspirations in the space and how they could be tremendously disruptive to Visa and MasterCard. And maybe you could see the same thing with Circle if they're successful with their L1. So we will be tracking this bakeoff. Looks like it's going to go a certain way. Well, you know what happens. Some dat news.

So there's an Athena dat that was announced, Stablecoin, X. X, they raised a big pipe. I believe the total raise month there is $890 million. There's also WorldCoin debt. So, eight co-holdings announced a $250 million pipe fundraise to launch a WorldCoin Treasury strategy. They hired Dan Ives to be the chairman. Tom Lee's Bitmine, which is the Ethereum Treasury Company, invested $20 million in the World Coin debt. That was interesting.

Yeah, so we've nested dats now. Nested dats. I believe the Solana dat raised a big pipe this week. Speaking of nested dots, I think Nakamoto also invested in the Japanese Bitcoin debt. Metaplanet? Yeah, Metaplanet. Oh, okay, the original, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

So we're getting dats of dats, and then we have the big Salonadat. This is forward industries that clues on a $1.65 billion dollar pipe. My goodness. Co-sponsored by Multi-coin Jump and Galaxy. Kyle Simani says it's 100% USD no in kind. Kyle's the chairman. He says he put 25 million in personally. Oh, he's bullish.

Yeah, that's honestly a real show of intent there. For sure, for sure. All right, what else happened this week? So market structure bill has been back and forth here. Republicans proposed a new draft, had protection in there for smart contract platform developers, clarifications on how airdrop should work, call for the SEC and the CFTC to jointly explore things together, not have turf wars.

Later in the week, Senate Democrats rolled out their own framework. They had seven key pillars. They focused pretty heavily on corruption and abuse within the crypto industry. They're also pretty zoned in on some of the provisions around interest. So I wonder if stable coin interest payments, we have not heard the last of this. All in all, it seems like there's progress here. but timing, I think, is uncertain. So there had been some promises to address this by the end of September.

Senate Banking Committee member John Kennedy, Senator John Kennedy, said, I don't think we're ready. People that I talk to still have some questions. Senator Cynthia Lemmiss also said it's more of an end of the calendar year thing versus end of September. So I don't know. At least there's some discussion, some dialogue, and two drafts of this at this point. So do you think that they are going to tighten the prohibition on interest provision?

Is that what's being discussed? I think that the bank lobby would like to see language injected in this bill that outlaws the types of payments that are facilitating Coinbase giving interest on USDC on their platform. And I don't know how you would actually do that. I keep getting calls from journalists about that. Yeah. So I think the Senate, the bank lobby really. really thinks that they whiffed on the stable coin bill. And they're trying to use the market structure bill

to crack down on the payment of interest, even through marketing dollars. That's going to be an interesting fight. I don't think morally the banks have the high ground. I don't think consumers are feeling very positively disposed towards the banks and the interest rates they get. So I think it's really tough to mandate that the consumer gets a definitionly worse experience.

And I think this administration is more, open to free market outcomes. I hope you're right. But even if you're wrong, I think there's ways that interest will still be paid here. So you could imagine a company that has a brokerage platform and you can imagine holding a stable coin on there the same way you do on Coinbase right now. And so let's just say you couldn't have the interest come off of it or the marketing dollars, whatever they're called with Coinbase. Why couldn't you just swap that into an interest-bearing money market fund, a tokenized money market fund on the same platform? You're just going to have the same results. Yeah, if there's an intermediary, there's a way to give your client the interest

that they want directly and directly. I've such a hard time imagining legislation that prohibits any kind of incentive payment from an issuer to an intermediary. So I agree with that. I think so that'll be an issue and then I just think the Trump family's crypto projects becomes an issue here. And can you get seven votes on the Democrats side of the aisle is the question? Yeah. And the conflicts or supposed conflicts

have only grown since the last time we've talked about this. So I think that's to me the main barrier to this legislation. Yeah, I think just the money is grown too, right? Like what these, some of these projects are worth. I mean, they're worth a lot. American Bitcoin, yeah.

worth a lot of money. And so hopefully that doesn't get in the way. I mean, SEC Chairman Atkins continues to be very vocal. He gave a speech this week talking about crypto's time has come for too long. The SEC has weaponized its investigatory subpoena and enforcement authorities to subvert the industry. Highlights that companies should be free to raise on-chain capital without endless legal uncertainty. So I like what I'm hearing out of the SEC. Yeah, that was really encouraging. Also in politics, the Brian Quintens Gemini

saga continues Quintens so the Winklevas brothers subjected to Quintens' his nomination to CFTC I guess that's been stalled for now Quintens released a bunch of DMs on signal

between him and the Winklevai it seems like they were upset that the CFTC sued Gemini for what seemed like a relatively minor infraction. While he wasn't there, I don't think he was there at the CFTC during that period. And it seems like they're upset about that from the messages.

Oh, so he wasn't even there at the CFTC when that happened? I don't think so. Interesting. Well, everyone kind of knows that the Winklevast twins have been working behind the scenes to put the kibosh on Quintenz. At least everyone in the industry knows that. I thought it was really wild. Quintens put private signal messages out on Twitter though. Oh yeah. I mean that's a serious escalation.

That's super. I mean, that's like he must really think that his chances are going away as a result of this. Yeah. It's not really a sign of strength, actually. No. No, far from it actually. But I would be so surprised if the Winkle Voss brothers alone, it's not like there's some big campaign would be able to block his nomination. They have donated a ton of money, and then I think you have some of the gambling industry is against Quintenz as well. Remember, we talked about the Native American tribes being against him, and it's basically the folks that want you to show up physically to a casino. I don't think like Quintenz's view on prediction markets. Yeah, that's a good point. And on that same note, Kelshey, I think, did more volume around Thursday night football than they did.

on the election. Oh, did they really? Do you see that? No, I didn't see that. I heard this from so many people. Like a bunch of smart people are like, well, prediction markets are just around the election. That's it.

Yeah, I think I've said that. No, people want to bet on stuff. And there's an infinite amount of sports. Sports never ends. Prediction market, I mean, who knew you could do it on sports? I guess we're living in a whole new regulatory regime. But yeah, I'm glad. I didn't get my cal sheet bet in on the Patriots this past week,

but I think we'll do a lot better this this week. We got the golfons. Commanders won. Commanders picked up the dub. I'm doing, I know we're not allowed to talk about fantasy football. I've committed to an all AI strategy this year. So I've even used the AI for my waiver wires for my team selection and it's working. Is it where you want to know? Yeah.

And the AI is so much better than me at picking a team. It's incredible. This is AGI. How is that not AGI? kind of takes away the fun of it though doesn't it it's about winning it's not about having fun that's true yeah i think i think these prediction markets are just going to just crush it on sports bets i mean if i was draft kings or fan duel i'd probably be launching a competitor right now yeah i think that's the way it's going to go it is incredible it's a really good example of a thing that academics

thought about for decades and never existed and everyone kind of agree that a proxion market was an interesting thing to have. And then finally, the market created them and kind of forced regulators to accept them. They got so popular, it became virtually impossible to ban them once they existed. I think part of the reason they became so popular is because you didn't need to use the Fiat banking rails to get money into them in the early days with polymarket. Because in trade ultimately was not successful, even though it was basically the same thing. But you have to do a wire transfer into a shady foreign company to actually, you know, get onto that thing. Yeah.

I think that's it. The rails make it possible to bootstrap this thing without needing the, you know, bootstrap it initially. It's the same with these that we talked about it before with these online bookies and casinos. It's just a huge sector. And no one can stop it, basically. Yeah.

Yeah. It's, I mean, all these things kind of start as like friends. and somewhat nefarious in certain cases. But, you know, now that it's just on the scene. And if you remember online poker, did you ever play online poker? I was never big in online poker. But, yeah, they were all shut down the same day, right? Yeah, it was like Black Thursday or something.

It was in 2011. A lot of my funds were frozen. I used to play a lot of online poker. And they used the banking system to do it. So they can't do that this time. You know, I mean, maybe they could if they really wanted to. you stable coins or something to shut down the online casinos. But it's a great example.

New infrastructure opens up new applications. I think you also just have a desire from politicians to extract rents on these things now. You know, it's just a tax opportunity in certain politicians' mind. So I think you're going to see these things thrive. You're going to pay for some roads in this country, you know. So what else happened this week? Swiss Borg, the European Crypto Exchange, suffered a $40 million hack this week.

That was tied to their underlying staking provider, Kieln. Kieln is unstaking, $1.6 million, ETH. That's $7 billion from their validators, spiking the Eth staking execute a 40 days. I didn't see this until just now, but this is super serious. And so there's an incident page up on Kieln's website. It looks like an unauthorized access via the API or something like that.

I don't know. this is not great. Put it that way. This is sort of the risk, right? This is the risk of doing an ETP even with a staking provider, I suppose. Yeah, I mean, smart contract risk is always there, no matter how audited your protocol is. It's ever present. This was the same day that those fears emerged about this compromised JavaScript package.

Oh, my gosh. On Twitter, which. A couple hours of craziness there. I don't know if this manifests. said in any loss of funds. But these two news items dropped the same time, so I thought this was because of that. It did result in the loss of funds.

So there was a JavaScript library that was infected, and there's like $500 in total was stolen, which is just remarkable that it was not more than that. That's a lot of work for not a lot of return. Yeah. But, I mean, that's a scary thing. I mean, you just think about how many financial institutions have JavaScript running on the inside of them.

Yeah, there's a lot of load-bearing infrastructure that's maintained by, like, one open-source engineer, and no one knows about it or who that person is, but it powers half the internet. Yeah, it's like that scene from Silicon Valley, the guy that's like, my job is to keep the internet running. There are people like that. Also, just think about the people that are still conversant in mainframes. Some of these people are, like, 70 years old working on inside of big banks, because they're the only people that can actually still use the mainframe. Yeah, like cobalt engineers. Yeah, cobal engineers. Do you think that AI changes that though? Because cobal engineers used to earn like

a million bucks a year because no one would learn the archaic programming language. But now maybe you could just use AI to do your coval programming. So there's probably some guy out there that spent 10 years learning cobalt he's like, well, I'm going to be the last remaining cobal guy. Yeah. And that opportunity has been taken from him. I guess you could learn Cobol pretty easily using an LLM, right? It would be somewhat trivial, I suppose. I couldn't tell you the first thing about it. Or the banks will just use stable coins and they're not going to need to depend on

cobal anymore. I guess that's a huge benefit of being just a net new company on the scene because you'd never make that choice today to run your infrastructure on a mainframe. But if they'd only known back then that we're making a trade-off here, and I guess maybe it was a reasonable one because what's the alternative 40 years ago, 50 years ago but it's like, hey, you're never getting off of this

and your IBM sales rep is going to have a three beach houses. Yeah, that's the thing about banking infrastructure. It's the stickiest thing ever because you don't want to change anything because it's real money at stake. Yeah, you don't want to break that thing. I think there's a huge advantage

in the crypto context, even on some of these customers, to the platforms. Once you get integrated with the banks, good luck ripping them out. So it looks like the CBOE is planning to launch, quote, continuous futures. These look like perps. So perpetual futures contracts on Bitcoin and Ethereum. It's about time. I mean, this is just a no-brainer, isn't it? That sounds like Tradfi speak for perps. But maybe they're too proud to call them perps. So they use their own word.

So now you can go sling some perps on Cebo or you can, you know, I guess you can sling some continuous futures contracts. You know, this is the real legacy of Bitmax, I want to say. It was BitMex. Wasn't it BitMex that invented the PIRP? I don't know if they actually invented it, but they certainly brought it to scale. They popularized it. I would say BitMex is two legacies, the PIRP and then the Delta neutral stable coin.

Because Arthur Hayes kind of co-founded Athena, and he got the idea for that from from Bitmex. He did. Because traders would create synthetic dollar positions by using perps and holding spot. So even though Bitmex now has faded into the dustbin of history, not to be a mean, but it's not, you know, major exchange anymore, it has those two major legacies. What was the dust on crust? Was that the blogpost?

I think he called it the knock a dollar. Yeah. I mean, that spawned a $10 billion DeFi protocol. Talk about a profitable blog post to write. It's the same thing with Vitalik's blog posts on AMMs, right? I mean, that's where Hidden Adams got the idea for Uniswob. Is that right? Yeah.

And that was the second mover, because the first one was Bankor. That's right. The Bankor apparently is sued Uniswap or something. Are they still suing them? And Bankor, or Amms was also an academic concept, which was floating around. and then someone had to implement it. Yeah. I mean, those are two things

that the crypto community is basically invented and just exported back to TradFi. Yeah. So if you need inspiration, just go read obscure economics papers and maybe the next AMM or the next prediction market is in there. You know what?

You know what would be interesting in the crypto context? There's two things, actually, that I'm surprised that don't exist at scale. one is just a global lottery like a weekly lottery and I know there have been attempts in the crypto space but how is that not the biggest application in all of crypto there are yeah there are some online casinos that have provably fair uh lottery games yeah but how is that not like a decentralized platform to do that and just tie up capital and a contract i think people have tried yeah the other one is uh i think

I think Tonteens could come back. Oh, yeah, Tonteen. I think Tonteens are illegal technically, but they're basically life insurance. The thing that I think is an interesting concept from the Vitalik adjacent... What was that intellectual body of work called? Was it radical markets? Radical markets was like Glen Weil or whatever. Benwile, yeah.

The thing that I found interesting was the Harbiger tax. Oh, yeah. Explain that to me again, so you'd have to... It's almost like a wealth tax, isn't it? tax, isn't it? Yeah, it's like you have an asset, but it's for sale at all times at a price of your choosing. You have to pay a tax based on the disclosed price at which you're willing to part with it. So it's allocatively efficient because it means that the person that values that thing the most is the one that ends up with it. Yeah, I don't really like that. I wouldn't want that to be the way the world works around me.

I mean, it wouldn't be good for real estate. No. But maybe there's something it could apply to. I don't know. Yeah, the tungsten cubes or something. I don't know. I don't actually know what that's good for. Some digital property that has low transaction costs. Yeah. That we, for some reason, we don't want people to be able to squat on it. Isn't that with that orb thing was doing?

That was the orb. Yeah, Eric's orb. Yeah, that was retired. It was too much work. It was too annoying. It was just too annoying to administer that? Well, yeah, because I had to answer these orb. questions every two weeks and I it was like a lot of money was at stake and it became very stressful.

So does it no one has it anymore? I think the whole or project was deprecated. Eric's he's building a bunker now. He's more focused on the bunker. The bunker. Okay. Yeah. That makes sense. Well, I think that's it. Short week, not a lot in crypto. Thursday night football today. Commander's Packers. Who do you got? Ooh. I'll get to go with the Packers on that. I think Packers defense. Packers defense. I don't know. I don't know if I see it with the commanders this year.

Many people are saying we're a regression candidate. But, you know, I got the dub in week one against the Giants. It's still early. But I think, you know, our 14 win prospects are still alive up here in New England. I'd like to see a little bit more next week, though. I got some feedback that, believe it or not, I've received feedback that people actually want to hear more. sports commentary on this podcast. Oh, really?

Which is pretty shocking because you only like football. And I guess baseball. No, I like baseball and basketball. And I follow hockey. So we have basically zero overlap in our, the sports that we follow. Except for football. Yeah, I like UFC and soccer and football a little bit. And you like totally different sports.

Yeah. I like the, I like the older school sports. I'm not doing any of this. I guess tennis is old school. You like the old sports as well. So there's just no overlap in our interests. And we also don't have enough time to pay attention to it. Well, speaking of sports, the Pablo Torre guy with the Clippers thing has just more information.

There was a podcast that released. I think it was this morning. There is a smoking gun in this thing. Like you wouldn't believe that the minority owner of the Clippers made a payment into a company that was going bankrupt. up this aspiration we were talking about the other day. And then they immediately sent like the same amount of money to Kauai Leonard. Those guys are just so screwed at the clippers. So did this get more serious in the last week?

Yeah, I mean, it's a complete smoking gun. This guy, Pablo Tori has it completely dead to rights. We need to get his next thing to be coming in and like exploring the dats or something. This guy is just one of the best investigative journalists have ever seen. Really? Yeah. So I don't see there being any whirl. where Balmer's not suspended for a year.

They lose like five first round draft picks. Yikes. There's just a lot of, it just looks terrible. Have you been following the big boxing match that's happening tomorrow? No. Guessing no.

Who's fighting? Terrence Crawford and Canelo Alvarez. We and the martial arts community are very excited about it. All right. I'll keep an eye on that. I'm just putting that under radar. All right.

I think that is it for the way. week. I'm back to Boston Blockchain Week. Everybody have a safe and healthy weekend and we will see on Monday.