On The Brink with Castle Island - Weekly Roundup 12/18/20 feat. a pseudonymous fixed income trader (Our MSTR mea culpa, are CME futs cursed, what isn't a commodity?) (EP.159)

Episode Date: December 18, 2020

Matt and Nic return to cover a blockbuster week of ATHs. We invite a pseudonymous bond trader to give a rebuttal to our somewhat misguided take on the Microstrategy bond offering on last week's episode. Also in this episode:  Our take on the STABLE Act (again) Are balances on the Dunkin and Starbucks apps stablecoins Paxos raises a $142m Series C SBI acquires B2C2 The BITW premium explodes Ruffer's telling reasons for investing $740m in Bitcoin The CME announces ETH futures ... three years to the day since the CME Bitcoin Futures launch Did the CME futures pop the 2017 Bitcoin bubble? We screwed up with our take on the MSTR bond offering We revisit the MSTR convertible note Who is buying the MSTR fixed income offering? Coinbase inches towards an IPO ErisX introduces sports-based futures contracts Why onions aren't a commodity Bitcoin values are American values Content mentioned:  Nic in Coindesk, Nationalizing Stablecoins Won't Improve Financial Access

Brought down by bad mortgage investments, Lehman, which has 25,000 employees, will be liquidated. The federal government loans American International Group, AIG, $85 billion. This is a different kind of market, and the Fed is asleep. The federal government is stepping it to stabilize Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the two mortgage giants that have been threatened by the housing crisis. The Bank of England has pumped 75 billion pounds more to Britain's ailing economy with a new round of quantitative easing. You print a couple trillion dollars, and all of a sudden, people start to worry. So out of this worry, we have something called a Bitcoin.

Bitcoin. Welcome to On the Brink. I'm Matt Walsh. And I'm Nick Carter. And what a crazy week. We're at all-time highs as we record this. Well, not quite, Matt. The all-time high officially, I'm looking at it now. It looks like the all-time high is about 23-7-53 or thereabouts.

And we're currently a little bit below that. Oh, man. It's a crash. Yeah, we're, we're, we're, crashing. Oh, man, it's so bad. I mean, it's been a pretty crazy week. I mean, these type of weeks are when people really start to engage. And you see a lot of people that are on the internet saying that they're big fans of Bitcoin that we haven't really heard from in a while, or ever. Yeah, it's a free engagement week. If you're a Bitcoiner, you can get really cheap

engagement. So I'm not going to tell everyone my strategy, but I've really been farming it with some low quality tweets this week. Yeah, well, you got to do what you can. It has been a busy week on the content front, though. You sat down with Amber Scott on Monday, talked about banking and crypto landscape up in Canada. Yeah, this is our new series. So basically, I think I'm going to call it choke point 2.0. So basically about why crypto firms historically have had such a hard time getting bank access in not just the U.S., but in a whole bunch of different countries. So we're going to go deep into that.

Yeah, I enjoyed that one. Yeah, Amber is really great. It's kind of hard to get people on the record for that topic, which is maybe not that surprising. You were on the Encrypted Economy podcast. That was a lot of fun. Encrypted Economy is a new podcast with Eric Hess,

so it was one of the first guests he's had on that one, which I recommend. Definitely go check that one out. And then you, wrote an article for CoinDesk, nationalizing stable coins won't improve financial access. Talk a little bit about this. Yeah, so this is my rebuttal to the Stable Act.

So, you know, we've talked about it on this show many times, but I figured I would get something in writing. And same points we kind of made on the show, honestly. I think there are good ways to potentially regulate stable coin issuers. I don't think bank charters are the way. maybe more flexible approaches like the fintech charter, which Brian Brooks proposed, or a unified model for money transmitter licenses at a federal level like coin center proposed. Both of those are very reasonable approaches to the problem.

I don't really think forcing all of these fintechs and stable coin issuers into the bank template is the right model. So that's what I said in the article. And 10 minutes after I posted it, Rohan Gray, who apparently was involved in writing this bill, was all over it. And he had a whole thread. I wonder if someone at CoinDest tipped him off. He hopped right on it. Well, that's what happens if you live on Twitter, I guess. Yeah, if you're an academic and you write bills all day, you know, maybe that's your day job is to look out for any critique. any criticism and respond. One of the several things that I think we got wrong on the podcast, or so I should say I got

wrong on the podcast last week, was around how the stored value Starbucks and Dunkin' Donuts gift cards would be treated in app purchases. It seems like they would also fall under this bill. Yeah, so we were jokingly saying that, you know, gift cards at coffee shops or your balance might fall under the ages of this bill. it seems like it actually would, though. On bankless, they talked about it. Peter Van Valkenberg from Coin Center actually discussed it too.

And then the author of the bill, Rohan, also sort of confirmed on Twitter saying, hey, you know, what Starbucks does is sort of on the edge of banking, which I found pretty entertaining. So he's basically biting the bullet on that one and admitting, yes, my definition of banking is so broad that it even would consider Starbucks balances to be effectively stable coins. I mean, you hate to see it. First, Stephen Lynch goes after the fintech, and then he goes after Duncan Donuts. You do hate to see it. I mean, I've never used a Duncan app. Is there an app? There is an app. It's not as good as the Starbucks app, but it is an app. And it's, you know, it's usable for sure. The Starbucks app is great. So I joked that I made a stable coin transaction

the other day when I used the Starbucks app. The Starbucks app is a game changer. It really is, yeah. It's excellent. Duncan up is kind of the same thing. Well, so that's our stable act content for the week. I'm sure we'll probably keep talking about it forever. It's a never-ending content vein.

Is this just inane attempt to regulate crypto constructs under legacy structures? So they're not going to stop. Yeah, there's going to be more content there for sure. Why don't we move into some deals of the week? It was a busy week on that front. So Paxos, which is the New York-based custody and exchange platform, they do a bunch of stuff, really early companies. They've been around for a long time.

They raised $142 million Series C from Declaration Partners, PayPal Ventures, Ken Moles, and others. So congratulations to these folks. They're powering actually the PayPal effort right now. So a lot of things going on at Paxos. That's right. And if you want to check in on how. PayPal's volumes are doing in terms of people buying Bitcoin on the app. Apparently, they're routing the order volume through Ibit, which is Paxos's exchange.

Is that true? I was wondering about that, actually. So you can see the it bit volume on trade block, but I don't know if they're executing it directly on their exchange, or they also have an OTC desk there. So, I mean, I guess theoretically it would all be hitting the exchange at some point, but I'm not sure if that's reflected in the it bit exchange volumes. or not? Well, the volume definitely rose after the product launched, so that much is clear. But yeah, it may well be off exchange as well. Anyway, huge round for them. They have come a long,

long way. They also administer a bunch of stable coins. They have kind of a white label stable coin service, really consequential firm. The next one is another big deal, SBI financial services, which is the big Japanese conglomerate. They acquired BT C2, which is a crypto trading and market making firm. Yeah, this is a template of things to come, I think. I think you're going to start to see more and more existing, quote-unquote, traditional financial firms acquiring some of these infrastructure companies, because it really will help them get to market a lot quicker. And B2C2 has been around for a long time. And this could be the, you know, maybe they're moving into more of like a prime offering here over at SBI.

It could be interesting. They've been investing in crypto asset businesses and crypto assets directly for a while now. Next up we have Swivel Finance. There are decentralized protocol for fixed rate lending and interest rate derivatives. There is 1.15 million for multi-coin, electric CMS, divergence, Alex Pack, and some others. And the next one is the Canadian Mutual Fund Manager, CI Financial. They did a $72 million public offering for their Bitcoin Access Vehicle. Bitcoin Access Vehicle is very hot right now. And lastly, we have math wallet, which is unsurprisingly a wallet company. There is $12 million from Binance, NJC, Amber Group, and some others. So those are the companies this week that have raised capital. And usually when you raise capital, you start hiring people.

So if you're looking at this industry from the perspective of getting involved and joining one of these companies, you know, that's who has money. So we could do a whole other deal section on large funds that have bought Bitcoin this week. That might be a third section of the show here because it seems like there's more and more every single week. Yeah, I guess let's hit on a couple of them. And then I want to talk about micro strategy after that. So it's been a busy week on that front. So I guess the Bitwise Crypto10 Index fund started trading this week. They've had record volumes, certainly a huge premium there on that product.

I think it shows you the retail. appetite for this for this asset class really um so that was won yeah and to their credit the bitwise folks have been very transparent they put out a press release saying hey you know keep in mind there's a premium and there's a nav that it's on their website so they're not concealing the fact that there's a really stark divergence between the premium and the asset prices underlying yeah it's just more reason why we should have a bitcoin etf really at the end of that every single one of these dislocations, all of the premium on these trust products. It's just more instances where the SEC could engage in harm reduction and protect consumers by approving an ETF. So it really is a

consumer protection story. We had an interesting announcement from a rougher investment company, and this was sort of misreported at first. We weren't sure if the allocation to Bitcoin was 15 million or closer to 740 million. Turns out it's the latter. So, they bought $740 million for the Bitcoin, which is 2.5% of the investment group's assets. I mean, that's a lot of Bitcoin. It's a fair amount. And what I found interesting was what they said about it, too. So it's not enough just to buy Bitcoin these days.

You also have to sort of do your justification. So obviously, Michael Saylor has created hours and hours of content explaining his decision. Ruffer put out a note saying, Bitcoin acts as a hedge to some of the risks we see in a fragile monetary system and distorted financial markets. It's pretty succinct. Yeah. That's succinct. Yeah. And so I tweeted about it that it seemed like they were buying it not out of excitement or FOMO, but out of a desire to actually protect the value of their portfolio. So a defensive position. So it's really interesting to see the narrative shift around Bitcoin. I mean, you can love Bitcoin for more than one reason.

There's a lot of reasons to love it. Yeah, nobody has a purchase on or a monopoly on what Bitcoin is. Critics often say that the narrative keeps changing, but as Joe Wisenthaw, I think, or was it Tracy Allaway that said? That's actually a strength. She did say that, yeah. The narratives were always changing. So that was after Meltem convinced her to buy Bitcoin.

That's true. I guess the last one in this category is the CME announced that they will launch Ethereum futures on February 8th, 2021. So the ETH fans will love that. So aware of caution about CME futures. It was three years ago to the day that the CME Bitcoin cash settled futures. And you know what happened after that? It just becomes a lot easier to short once you have that product out there.

Price discovery becomes a lot more efficient. Bitcoin drew down by 85%. Three years ago, today was the precise peak of the last Bitcoin rally, the precise peak, CME Bitcoin futures launched that same day. So beware. Beware. Definitely good for just infrastructure development writ large. Yeah. And there's no guarantee the futures would somehow cause the price to collapse. But I do love that correlation that the futures launched on the precise top of the market. There's definitely someone to be said for that. Yeah, definitely. All right. So let's talk about micro strategy last week hand up i think i was way off with my analysis of this so i had a quick off

the cuff take on why that convert note might not be the best product for a for an investor and we got some in about we have some very educated listeners and a bunch of them work on convert desks yeah so it turns out we have a audience of fixed income investors that we were not aware of and they fact checked us vociferously and i i have to hand it to them because you know i get very frustrated when people opine without having a good foundational knowledge in how something works in the crypto industry. And I think, you know, I was guilty of that. So hand up. Yeah, we were caught over our skis there. So I guess we have to do more homework for this show in the future or maybe just stick to the instruments that we understand. So what we figured we would do was bring on an expert.

So we have Spencer joining us works on a convert desk. We're going to keep his name a secret. for now. So we're going to keep Spencer pseudonymous, but he understands the micro strategy offering. So he's going to come on and explain it for us. All right. So we are very excited to have a guest on the podcast. Name is Spencer and an expert in the U.S. credit market. We're not going to give the full name. But hopefully this doesn't become a recurring theme on this podcast, Nick, where I just make a very blatant, inaccurate comment and then we just get emails telling me how wrong we are. So we had to correct it about the micro strategy news. Yeah, we were wildly off base on the micro strategy off. Well, technically you, but you know, no one's pointing fingers on this show. But we did receive many

listener comments. So it's great to know that there's some people out there actually listening to the substance of what we're saying. The bad news is we said some totally wrong stuff about the micro strategy offering and we are now fixing that. We brought in an expert on fixed income to tell us exactly how wrong we were. So Spencer, thank you first of all for joining the podcast. Yeah, my pleasure. So Spencer, why don't we just dig right into it and, you know, we talked about this micro strategy convert and my perspective on last week's podcast was I'm not, I don't really see how this makes a ton of sense for an investor in this product. But talk us through it. I mean, why was that inaccurate?

Yeah, I mean, you made the point about the low, low coupon, and that is correct. I mean, it's obviously cheap financing from a fixed income perspective. But I think my interpretation of the deal is kind of twofold. First and foremost, it's kind of a brilliant capital market arbitrage if you're really, if you're really bullish on Bitcoin, you know, like high level numbers, you know, back of the envelope numbers on the ARB is, you know, Saylor has a business that's now worth about 3 billion, 3.2 billion enterprise value given the size of the Bitcoin investment. You know, so you need to value the legacy software business and the Bitcoin entities separate

on a some of the parts basis. So you have two parts. If you assume maybe legacy software business is kind of one to one and a half billion. And then, you know, you value the Bitcoin, the 40,000 Bitcoin that they own at. at, you know, roughly 19, 20,000 or I guess maybe 21,000 looking like today. You know, that's a $750 billion position in Bitcoin. So, you know, there's clearly a big gap between what the market is pricing, the sum of the parts for the legacy software business and the Bitcoin position.

So is a one to one and a half billion premium of, versus the market, is that really pricing in some sort of like visionary premium for Michael Saylor? I doubt it. So why not from Michael Saylor's perspective, why not sell a stock or a convert in this case, a cheap fixed income instrument with an option to sell the stock? Why not sell it at a 30 to 50% premium to the market and then buy Bitcoin on Coinbase or however whatever rails he uses to to purchase the asset. So kind of kind of brilliant in my opinion if you're if you're really bullish on the asset. I think secondly it kind of just highlights the unfortunate state of the affairs at the FCC. You know, they're trying to help retail investors, you know,

protect them from from kind of what happened in 2017, I suppose. But the reality is, is, is, you know, you look at, you know, the gray scales of the world, a bit wisest of the world. And now micro strategy and demand as far as stripping supply. And professional investors only really fully understand, I think, these premium and discount to net asset value situations. So it's kind of an unfortunate example as to why we really need an ETF in Bitcoin space. So I guess maybe there's one other point. Maybe if I think kind of strategically from from Saylor's perspective is maybe the

virality of it all, you know, based on the kind of the media deluge that Sailor got, you know, why not, why not continue that kind of the media headlines that he's gotten and do something else and kind of leverage that down the road? So I think that, that, you know, kind of thinking strategically maybe that had something to do with Sailors move here as well. Yeah. So, Spencer, those are, you know, those are great points. One other thing that I think I miscategorized last week was just around, you know, how this would convert and specifically the bondholder having the option to convert was something that we didn't talk about. So, you know, without maybe prognosticating too much into the future, if Bitcoin takes

off from here, how would you envision this would play out on just that convertibility feature, you know, if Bitcoin goes much higher? Yeah. Well, I mean, like I said, the conversion premium or the premium that the underlying asset is implying by the stock prices is material. It's something like 100%. So if you assume that that premium remains, but say Bitcoin rallies materially,

the stock will clearly will continue to go up. And I forget the conversion price offhand, but at some point in time, once the conversion price has reached, you know, the convert of the convert owners have the right to then compare. convert into underlying stock. So that's kind of how the mechanics would work out.

Yeah, and clearly in that case, then it's a no-brainer to convert, and you'd be converting below the price of the asset. Yeah, or from a, perhaps from an institutional investor perspective, you'd be converting at a premium to Bitcoin if the market was still inefficiently, say theoretically, if we still don't have an ETF, and the premiums that bitwise and gray scale remained, then theoretically maybe you have a premium asset. And at that point, maybe you have hedge funds looking to do the kind of the gray scale trade where they take advantage of the premium role, just trying to think down the road.

So, Spencer, given your knowledge of these markets, what is the kind of profile of investor that is actually subscribing to this offering? I would say it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, You know, I'm not at a sell side desk, so I don't know the typical profile. To be honest, I would guess it is a combination of hedge funds, convert, dedicated portfolios, private wealth that might be limited to their ability to invest in something like Bitcoin directly. You know, micro strategy historically hasn't been a convert issuer and they haven't been in the credit markets. So it's a new name that's not well covered by long only institutional investors. So that would lead me to think that they would be less interested in it would be more, you know, the dedicated converts and the smaller, smaller, more dynamic hedge fund type investors that have a thesis on Bitcoin. Is there something to be said for this being a fixed income instrument that is Bitcoin flavored,

whereas there's been a posity of those sorts of instruments out there in the market before? I mean, it sets a precedent, but I think we have a long ways to go for this. I mean, Sailor, as you know, he's the CEO, he's the founder, he controls the board, he's material skin in the game, he can do what he wants. in terms of setting a precedent, it does, but I don't know if you can kind of, you know, extrapolate this as a as a trend that I would expect to continue if I had to guess. How about a trend at micro strategy? I mean, is it possible to imagine a world where he does this again in six months?

Yeah, I would think so. I mean, the balance sheet is not terribly encumbered. It's fairly unencumbered, and particularly with, you know, 75 basis points of interest rate, they have to pay. It's not a material issue. So, yeah, there's plenty of capacity to continue to do it, which kind of, you know, puts the ball, like we talked about earlier in terms of, you know, needing the ETS. It kind of, I think if you think longer down the road, maybe there's then an angle for a backdoor ETF of sorts via micro strategies. Clearly, this is me speculating here.

But yeah, I mean, if I'm just looking at the convertible price now, it's 104, 105. So four or five points up from the offering last week. Clearly, Bitcoin's at all time high. so that probably has something to do with it. But my point is that it seemed to be well subscribed. And as you know, they upsized the $250 million from the original $400 million. So serious demand there. Yeah.

I don't know if you can give an answer to this. But I mean, would you be a buyer of this instrument in your own portfolio if you're sort of hypothetically managing one? Depends on your mandate. If you're a total return capital appreciates. fund, and you clearly have a view on Bitcoin, but if you are a long only, long-term holding, carry, total return, kind of fixed-income strategy, less so. I think the one thing that really would make me nervous is, again, the premium in which the underlying assets trade at, right?

So you have to make an assumption that there, that that remains. So say we wake up next week and, ETF has launched, I would expect that those premiums across, you know, bitwise and grayscale and micro strategies to compress. Right. Yeah. Right. Because bitwise, the premium is kind of 20, 30 percent. Micro strategy, the premium is over 100 percent, as you said. Although the math is more complicated. Bitwise is like 5X right now. Yeah, I think I saw that. Yeah. Yeah. So gray scale is like 20 percent, I think. So yeah, I would expect those to compress.

Well, Matt, we stand corrected. This is why, you know, we've got, we've all got our circles of confidence. And ours is pretty small, all things considered. I am going to stay away from the U.S. credit market, but I'm very thankful that we have listeners like Spencer that are willing to keep us honest. So Spencer, thank you for coming on the podcast. Hopefully we'll talk to you again, but it won't be because I made some dramatic mistake on a podcast.

Well, thanks for having me, guys. podcast. You know, happy to provide my perspective. Well, I'm glad we did that. He's certainly much more knowledgeable about this than you or I. I feel so educated. And also, I feel like the micro strategy bond offering is not such a terrible deal now. So. Yeah, now I wish I kind of did it. I don't know if I personally would buy it. If you maybe if you're a fixed income investor and that's your entire investable universe and that's the one thing that's Bitcoin flavored, yeah, maybe make sense. That's the key point, I think, is that if it's, you know, within your mandate, then there's some asymmetric upside there. So the other enormous news this week was, of course,

Coinbase filing some early documents announcing their intent to do an IPO. So it looks like what, this was a confidential, the file the confidential S-1. Is that what I gather? That's right. I can't wait to see the S-1. That whenever that comes out, that's going to be clear your day. Let's just check it out. Yeah, and the beauty, I think, of Coinbase being a public company, aside from, you know, of course, being a good liquidity event for, you know, thousands of individuals and just, you know, an important milestone for the whole industry is also we are going to get a lot of transparency into how Coinbase operates and their rate of adoption. And it's going to be really interesting just as an informational resource to see those quarterly disclosures. Yeah. Absolutely. I think this will be great for the industry. There's a few publicly listed market infrastructure companies, nothing on the scale of Coinbase. So this will be the biggest one by a country mile. Yeah. And it'll be a chance for public market investors to really do their diligence on the highest profile firm in the space to form an opinion.

And I mean, I think it's going to be an incredibly positive event. It's hard to see how it goes wrong. And I mean, I think this thing is going to kick off at a very, very healthy valuation as well. Yeah, I'd expect that. So probably more to come on that, I'd imagine. Yeah, the other potential interesting dynamic would be a lot of early Coinbase employees getting a liquidity event and then potentially having the financial freedom to start startups of their own. So you could see kind of a Coinbase mafia developing. I mean, there already is one actually in the industry. Yeah, that's what always happens in this situation. is just more capital flows into early-stage companies, more angel investing, more entrepreneurial

activities. So it's just a huge net positive. And look, Coinbase has been added for a long time. This will be a great outcome for a lot of people. So what else do we have on the news front? Eris X had an interesting announcement this week. So ErisX announced that they have filed self-certification to introduce a fully collateralized sporting event future contracts with RSB-I-X. R.S. Bix. That's tough to say. They're a partner there. So basically the idea here is that the DCO license will allow errors to clear derivatives for any type of commodity. And this sports-based futures contracts will be open to eligible contract participants under the Commodity Exchange Act, which could be sports books and vendors as well as sports stadium owners. It basically allows you to hedge commercial risk around sports books and, attendance at games and cancellations for stadiums and things like that. So as that category expands, I think that having the infrastructure to support the futures contracts becomes really interesting. It's no different than a like a farmer hedging their exposure or airline hedging gasoline

and oil prices at the end of the day. Yeah. And the way that the commodities laws are interpreted in this country is such that almost anything you can think of is a commodity. With some key exceptions, so I think onions are an exception due to a historical episode of price manipulation with onions. I'm not familiar. I know that everything is a commodity, including you and I. Yes, but not onions. There is an episode with the Onion King. Who's that? Well, he was an individual who, I guess, engaged in price manipulation of onions. kind of ruined onions for the rest of us, at least in the eyes of the CFTC. And then the other thing

that's not a commodity, I believe is movie theater bookings because there are a bunch of betting markets that emerged for movie tickets. And for whatever reason, the CFTC didn't like that. I probably butchered that whole thing, but anyway, you get the point. Almost everything's a commodity. I think we're going to have an onion expert come in and just over the top. And we're going to have to do 10 minutes with an onion expert next week around how wrong you were about that commodity analysis. Hopefully this doesn't become a trend having to constantly issue mea culpahs about wrong. I mean, you know, cut us some slack. I think we should be allowed to say, you know, three to four wrong things per episode.

Yeah. Well, in any of it, I'm not a huge onion fan, but that's neither here nor there. Yeah, they're not commodities, though. That's the important thing. A few odds in ends this week. Did you see this Scott Minard? he's the chief investment officer at Guggenheim. He went on Bloomberg and they asked him about Bitcoin.

They were about to click over to Jerome Powell's speech. And then he just comes out and he says, look, I mean, this thing is trading at about 20,000 and it should be worth 400,000. And he just stopped everyone dead in their tracks. Like there was an audible gasp on Bloomberg. They were like, what? And they actually delayed cutting over to Jerome Powell as he finished his thought. And it was spectacular. I mean, it was like great television.

Yeah. You know, it's good when they don't cut to Jerome. I'm now starting to think that when I went on Bloomberg, I should have just done that instead of, you know, saying that the halving was priced in. Well, I think, yeah, maybe this, I think he was quite serious. And Guggenheim has efforts underway in the blockchain and crypto space, but this will become a trend where people will just start to compete for throwing out the most insane number that they can.

Yeah. Maybe I don't necessarily have the credibility as a large investor to. throw out a price target. But that's never stopped half of Bitcoin Twitter. Yeah, that's true. Another thing that caught my eye this week was a speech actually that happened last week. So it was SEC Commissioner Hester Purse in a speech to the Federalist Society, I believe, advocated for an embrace of the personal liberty ethos that underlies crypto, which I thought was really cool. Yeah, I've taken to saying Bitcoin Valies or American Valies, which maybe sounds a little chauvinistic,

but I actually do think it's true. And it's cool to see Hester speaking along the same lines. But, you know, crypto really is about individual liberty, about rejecting, you know, centralized control, rugged individualism. These are sort of core American values. Cynthia Loomis had similar things to say on the What Bitcoin did podcast this week, actually. I still can't believe that when she was asked about her priority,

for the Senate. I think the first thing she said was evangelizing Bitcoin to her colleagues. Well, she's got her priority straight, obviously. She doesn't have any sort of pet legislation that she wants to advance. Nope, it's Bitcoin. I mean, we need to get on this post, now that there's a vaccine out, we need to start thinking about this Wyoming conference or just a big extravaganza out there. Okay, Wyoming it is. We need to rewild the American West. while we're at it. Yeah.

Bring back the megafauna. What do you think of the CB Insights blockchain 50? So that was pretty cool. So coin metrics is on there. Very exciting. Shout out coin metrics. We were also apparently one of the most active investment firms within that blockchain 50 cohort. So shout out to us.

Yeah. Block 5 was on there. AirSex was on there. So that was nice. Yeah. So we're going to have two. interviews next week. It's going to be a busy podcast week. We don't we don't take a breath for the holidays. Yeah, we're actually going to be releasing podcasts throughout the holiday season. Do not

fear. We're going to be with you every step of the way. Just as you're at home, just battling, telling people that this is not a scam. Yeah, this is this is prime Bitcoin evangelizing season. You need to get your talking points ready. So we're going to have Matt Hogan, the chief investment officer of was on the program on Monday. And that was a great episode. Always enjoyed chatting with Matt. They're doing awesome. And then we, on Wednesday, we're going to do Brian Venturo, CTO of Corweave, which is a really big, ETH miner. You guys all enjoyed my conversation with Mustafa Yilhan, a industrial Bitcoin miner. I'm going to give you the other side, talk about industrial eth mining, really, really fascinating world. So full lineup of podcasts for you next week.

Brian Ventura also very good golfer. Is that right? Have he golfed with him? No, I've not, but he has a very solid reputation as a very good golfer. I'm not a golfer myself. You like to golf. I'm not good at golf, but I like to golf. I just don't like things that I'm not good at, and I'm really not good at golf.

Well, you know, you can always get good. I don't know. It seems like it might be too late for me at this point. So I think that's all we have for the week. Enjoy your weekends and we will see you back next week.