On with Kara Swisher - Marc Maron on Podcast Grifters, Fascism & His Legacy

Episode Date: June 11, 2026

Kara sits down live at the Tribeca Festival with comedian, actor and OG podcaster Marc Maron following the world premiere of his new film, “In Memoriam.” In it, Maron stars as Langston Stanfield, a fading, narcissistic actor who’s facing a terminal cancer diagnosis and is determined to secure his place in the Oscars’ “In Memoriam” montage. Kara and Marc talk about the film, death, legacy, anxiety, narcissism and why it’s easier for him to be candid with a room full of strangers than with the people in his life. They also get into Marc’s life after ending WTF, the manosphere, empathy, tech oligarchs and phone addiction. Plus: why Marc wishes everyone would stop podcasting. Questions? Comments? Email us at [e-mail] or find us on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, Threads, and Bluesky @onwithkaraswisher. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm not anxious at all, actually. Do you know that? You're not anxious? No, I'm a lesbian, so I'm not even so. So you've moved through anxiety? I never had it. Never had it. No. Hi, everyone, from New York Magazine and the Box Media Podcast Network. This is On with Kara Swisher, and I'm Kara Swisher. My guest today is stand-up comedian and actor Mark Marin.

You probably know Mark as the host of the podcast, WTF, which just ended its run last fall after 16 years and nearly 1,700 episodes on it. He interviewed everyone from President Barack Obama and Keith Richards to Carol Burnett and Robin Williams. In addition to the podcast and his critically acclaimed stand-up comedy specials, Mark has started a number of TV shows and films, including the Netflix series Glow, the Apple TV Plus golf comedy stick,

and the Bruce Springsteen biopic, Deliver Me from Now Mark is the star and producer of a new film called In Memorium from writer and director Rob Burnett. Mark plays Langston Stanfield, a talented, narcissistic, and arrogant actor who receives a terminal cancer diagnosis. He becomes obsessed with making it into the Oscars in-memorium montage and cementing his legacy as an artist and is forced to confront failed relationships and many missteps in his personal life along the way. I want to talk to Mark because he's the OG podcaster. I love all his other stuff and I think he's an amazing stand-up comedian, but he was here early

during the podcast days. He was even earlier than I was, and I've been here a long time. And I just think he's really been brilliant out. He's a great interviewer. And I love his stand-up. I love his attacks of the tech oligarchs. And so there's a lot for us to talk to. So let's get into the conversation with Mark Marin. I interviewed him earlier this week after the world premiere of In Memorium at the Tribeca Film Festival. Our expert question today comes from comedian Tignitaro. Stick around. Thanks again to O-Doo for supporting this show. O-DU wants to be your ultimate all-in-one fully integrated platform to handle everything.

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When to call the experts and when to do it yourself. That's this week on Explain It to Me. Find new episodes, Sundays, wherever you get your podcasts. Mark, thanks for joining me at an opening night of the Tribeca Film Festival podcast stage for a live taping of On with Kara Swisher. So let's start talking about your careers. You spent decades working in stand-up before your podcast, WTF took off. Now you're doing some of your best acting work.

You've said at your core you're an urgent person. So talk about urgency. Urgency in a TED talk way or just personal? Personal. You can TED talk it if you want. The reason urgency is so important to us. Now do an NPR voice. I'm urgent and I think about it a lot.

Okay, that sounds like you're going to the bathroom. That sounds like NPR. Yeah. I guess I'm an urgent person. because I'm filled with anxiety and dread most of the time. So everything starts in a panic and moves through in a panic. I wake up in a mild panic. I don't know why.

I'm trying to resolve that. But everything is urgent because even things that I want to do when I know I have to do them, when I remember I have to do them, it's always like, oh, fuck, I have to. And that's not really a great way to enter something you want to do. I don't know if it's urgent as much as it is anxious. Anxious. But not in a nervous way. I'm just, you know, you know.

And what causes this anxiety from your perspective? You know, I don't know what it is exactly. I think it is just, you know, dread of the unknown. Uh-huh. Yeah. So, and really almost anything is unknown. I just, I always, anything I have to do just feels like, not a chore, but like, I'm trying to give you an example.

Like, okay. So if someone, like, said, why don't you take a vacation? and go spend a week in Spain. In about 40 seconds, my brain would be like, well, where do you park? So it's just the way my brain works. That is dread of the known, but go ahead. Go ahead, not the unknown.

I just don't know why. Like, I wasn't anxious about this. I don't mind talking. I don't mind being in front of people. I'm not afraid of performing. But I think when I just have time and I have to do things or things are happening, I just, so I guess it's urgent.

It's more phomo than it is urgent. Right. So parking in Spain is an issue, obviously. Well, yeah, because what if there's not a space? Yeah. That's sort of my brain. Why do you have a car in Spain? Well, I figured I rent one.

Okay. And then we got to talk about, can I drive with the license I have? Or do I have to get an international license temporarily? Which side of the street do you drive on in Spain? See, now I'm not, I'm canceling my trip. Yeah. Cancel. All right.

Yeah, I'm not going. Okay. It's a lovely country. Huh? It's a lovely country. Yeah, I know. but like it just seems like a hassle. Okay.

All right. I'm not anxious at all, actually. Do you know that? You're not anxious? No, I'm a lesbian, so I'm not even so. So you've moved through anxiety? I never had it. Never had it.

No. My wife is Jewish. She's very upset by this situation when we met. And she's anxious? Yes. Because you make her anxious. Probably. Right.

You're not helping her in any way. No, not at all. No, but I'm like, why are you so anxious? You're the opposite of anxious. You, like, thrive on other people's in discomfort. Yes, that's what I do. That's actually been my career and it's been an excellent and lucrative one. I'm glad you made a career out of it. I also made a career out of anxiety. Good. Well, that's good. Okay. We're moving down a bad area. So, so, but are you anxious in like when you think of your career or when you do it or what propels you? It's not really anxiety like that. I think I've moved through, you know, a certain amount of anger and a certain amount of anxiety. I don't have any anxiety really about my career. Like, when I have to do something that's new, that's when I get very anxious. I don't feel insanely confident as an actor. So when I have to act, I get anxious.

I've been playing a lot of music lately. I get very anxious about that. But I also know that that kind of fear is fine until you figure out how to do something. To do things at any point in your life, if they're new, those things aren't new, but for me to do them publicly and to really work on them, you know, you're going to suck for a while. And you've got to just, you've got to take them. You got to, you know, deal with that. Right. But I learned from, you know, stand up and also from my, you know, early acting jobs.

Like, it's okay to suck, you know, and either you'll get through it or you'll just keep sucking and you'll stop because it's not good for you. Which is interesting. You picked a career where you really have to put yourself out there. I don't know why I chose that. Yeah. Harry Shearer once said, you know, the reason we make people laugh is to try to control why they laugh at us, which I think is very funny and very smart. I don't know why it was stand-up, but it was always stand-up. Since I was a kid, I always wanted to be a stand-up.

I always thought that stand-ups were able to make sense of the world in a very specific way, in a very quick way, in a very poetic way, and they were able to disarm fears in a very quick way, in a very poetic way, and also give you new ways of looking at things. So I thought stand-ups were just wizards and geniuses. And I always thought it was the most... It's a singular stage, and it's a very sacred space. to me. And it doesn't seem to be, you know, that's sacred anymore, generally speaking.

Oh, we'll get to that. And talking about Don Dennis, although sometimes it is, actually. Is there someone that was the first person you noticed in that regard? Well, I think my earliest memories really are of watching, you know, TV in the afternoon. Right. Watching Merv Griffin probably. You know, I still, you know, I see Jay Leno around now because he's sort of back in doing stand-up. And like, I remember a joke he did on like the Merv Griffin show. Like it stuck with me my whole life. Do you remember the joke?

Yeah, he was just sitting not in a chair like this. Yeah. And I'm pretty sure it was Merv, but the host goes, we're going to go away for a break. And Jay goes, is the chair going to fold into the wall now? You know, like on a game show where it just sort of disappears or goes. And I thought it was so fucking funny. But comics always sort of made an impression on me. I listened to a lot of a lot of Cheech and Chong, a lot of George Carlin when I was a kid.

When I saw Richard Pryor's first movie, when I was in high school, the first live in concert, that was a big deal. My parents took me to see Jackie Vernon when I was like 11 years old at the Hilton Inn in Albuquerque, New Mexico in the lounge there because I love Jackie Vernon because I'd see him on talk shows. And it was kind of weird. I was a little kid in a dark lounge and there was a sweaty old guy who was probably near the end of his career. And we were like second row. And he looked terrible. He looked like he was going to have a heart attack any second. And some part of me was like, I want to be him.

Yeah. What was your drink order? No, I don't want to answer that. So let's move to the film first. We're going to get back to comedy in a second, but the film In Memorium. You play Langston-Stanfield, a 60-year-old narcissistic, arrogant actor who receives a terminal cancer diagnosis and becomes bent on getting in the Oscars in-memorium montage, which is quite a premise. He tells his manager, if he's not in and he didn't exist, essentially.

Yes. It's an absurd obsession, but at the same time. Well, it is in a way, but it isn't. And so I talk a lot about death. I just did a whole series about death or CNN, yes. What did you come up with? You should go out of it? No, no, I'm going to die.

But it's called Caraswisher wants to live forever. She doesn't. But talk about this, how it came about, and how you thought about the role. You were really a jerk in the role at the beginning, like so much so that I had to turn it off for a second. Did you? Yes. You do a great job thing. narcissistic factor, yeah.

Yeah, well, you know, I was brought up by wild narcissists. Me too. Yeah. So you kind of, you know how to lock in. And at some point you realize, well, maybe I have some of those things that they have. But if it's not truly pathological, you can sort of temperate or get rid of it or control it. But you do know how to do the narcissistic thing. When I got the role, you know, Rob Burnett, the writer, wrote a great script, directed the movie, offered me this role through my management.

And I said to my manager, like, well, how many people turned it down? Because that's the way I think. You need to know that. You know, what number am I? You know, which other funny fellas have not wanted to do this. So, and then over time, they convince you that you're the only one they wanted. Right. And you go.

and you believe it. And so I took the job. It's your first lead role, right? It is my first lead role. Yeah. And I think Rob wanted me because I don't know really who else could have done this role in the way that I did it, not in an arrogant way, but like, you know, it's a weird role. But the process was, you know, I read the script. I thought it was great. And I thought the premise was great. And then it just becomes about, you know, being present for what's on the page. I think, you know, as a person who's acting, I relate to the guy. I know I'm not the guy, but I'm close enough to the guy to play the guy, I believe. So I find the part of myself that fits this guy and the parts of me that don't fit it, I try to shut off. I really think that if something is well written, that the answers

to your questions on how to perform it, and I'm no lifetime actor, it's all on the page. if you're present for what's going on on the page and present for the actors around you. What made you like this premise? I mean, you called it emotionally charged and very human. What was the thing that attracted? It's crazy funny. Yeah. It's crazy, dark funny.

Whenever I told people what this movie was about, they were like, they laughed because it's funny, but it's not that outside of reality. A guy who was a big actor when he was younger had big shots in show business. and they kind of all faded away. And as he got older, you know, who knows what he did. But he ended up on a sitcom for five years, you know, for the money. Right. But in his heart, he was always a big actor. And he kind of failed there.

So now he's dying. And he, the only thing that will give his wife meaning is to get into this in-memorium montage. But he doesn't know if he has the resume for it. He doesn't know if he can make the in-memium, right? So then it's sort of like, well, we got to figure out an angle. So he's going to forego chemo. so he makes the cut. So only half the room's laughing

because the other half is sort of like this sounds like a sad movie. And then I have no use for those people. Right. Because like they're the ones who are ruining everything. This is a funny concept. You know, just like triggered babies. Like that sounds like a sad film.

It is. So what? That doesn't mean it's not funny. I don't know why I'm angry at you now. But yeah. So I thought it was, thought it was very funny, but oddly, as I played it and as, you know, the foundational relationship in the movie is with me and my estranged daughter played by Talia Ryder, who

was great. And I didn't play it in a broad way. And Rob and I have talked about it. There are some bits of comedy in there that they're not broad, but they could have been played differently. But I played it very real, because I don't really know how to do broad that well. Like, I have to approach it like it's real. once the relationship with Talia started to happen,

this is the sort of explore the sadness element, it does get sad. But I think that because the guy is such an asshole, and you kind of don't like him for a while, and then as he sort of breaks down a little bit in the relationship with Lily Gladstone, as the therapist sort of softens him to a degree, it becomes a little more weighty.

Right. And because I was talking about this with Talia, the woman who played my daughter yesterday. You know, the scene where they, well, I don't want to ruin the movie for anybody. But there's a scene, you know, where there's a cake involved. And it's a, it's a horrendous bit of comedy.

It really pushes the envelope of like, of what, you know, you can emotionally take as a funny premise. And at that point, you know, it does change to sadness, but not until that point. No. So I thought that was all very challenging.

It was very exciting to do it. As you said, he's a self-described asshole who realizes he doesn't have any friends. He has four to six ex-wives and the longest relationship was with a manager. Yeah. How did you prepare for the person who cares more about being admired by strangers than loved by the people in his life? Well, I can relate to that. Mm-hmm. You know, it's a sad situation, you know, in the sense of, and like even as you read that,

I realized that at this point in my life, my emergency contact is my manager. Oh, wow. So, you know, I'm living that to a degree. Okay. But it's not so much about the people in my life, but I've always felt like I could be more candid and more open, you know, in this room, like with these people. And they're your people. And I don't even know them. Okay.

But I'm sure some of them are mine. I'm sure they are. But there is something about making myself emotionally available on a stage. that is, it's where it happens mostly for me. The connection. It's a parisocial relationship. For who? Them?

Yeah, parisocial, meaning they know you. I'm not having parisocial way. No, you're not. They know you, but you don't know them. Well, yeah, that can become problematic because it's very easy access to all of us, you know. So, but to address the thing, it's like, I don't know what that is. Like, you know, some performers, they say they're looking for love,

or they need the love. The affirmation. Yeah, but I don't know if I need that. It's like I'm not even sure, you know, I like the laugh. But I think there's something about being seen and being present in yourself and being in knowledge for that. I don't know. Like, I'm very odd with how I feel about audiences. I used to do a joke about it.

I used to say, you know, like I'll do a joke that like only lands with half the audience. And I'll say, like, you know, that's what I like to do with an audience. I like to push you away, see if I can get you back and push you away and get you back. and that's a little dynamic I call dad. And there's something to the, you know, the parents' connection. I've done a lot of thinking about this. Yeah. But I don't like that I'm so needy of validation.

I don't like it. Yeah. It's like, it's almost like an addiction. Do you do the flip side, the withholding part? The withholding from who? Anyone. Yeah, yeah, I do. I do.

I do that. But it's hard for me now. I've gotten worse at it. You know, you know, if I was I withholding with my last relationship? Not really. I find that if people kind of instinctively know me, they can get past that pretty quickly, you know, because I'm pretty sensitive and kind of like, you know, I'm a pretty soft guy. You can see that. But whatever, you know, I've built.

Right. Another thing I've, I've, what was that line? I wrote the, the monster I created to protect the child inside me is, is hard to control sometimes. Yeah, that's a great line. But no, people who know me can get right through it. Withholding's just a test. Yes, is it? Yeah, it's just a test.

Oh, okay. And if you passed a test, lucky you, you get me. It's hard to do with children. And speaking of which... I don't have any children. I have four, so I have them for all of us. You have four? Yes, they do.

Wow. Yeah, you can't be withholding. Well, you can, but... Ugh. What do you mean? Ugh. Did you just, ugh, my four children? I did.

They're fantastic. Well, how are you not going to think that? They just are. It's factual. Of course they are. No, it's factual. It's actually factual. Whatever you say.

Okay. Well, I'm just telling you, they're great. Anyway, in any case, you have a fake daughter in this movie, Mora, and they're getting to know each other, and he's teaching her the Sanford-Misner repetition exercises. This was very striking where he tells her, don't think, feel, and you both get very emotional. I'd like you to talk about that scene. The first time we did it on the park bench? Well, we really did it. I mean, oddly, if you do that exercise, it will get you. And I'm not sure what it was with me and Talia, but it really worked pretty quickly. Again, because the script is so good and it's all there that we were able to emotionally connect in that sadness. We both engaged in something, but that exercise, if anyone does it, will push you to the listening and repetition. Yeah, it'll push you to a

limit. And given that it was loaded, that was me trying to get to know this daughter who I, whose life I wasn't present in, that was loaded. So it started to happen very quickly. And that the exercise of me sort of admiring her and then also realizing in that moment that, you know, she is my daughter and that I'm having this, this whatever emotions that I never engaged with because I wasn't in her life. Yeah, it was overwhelming. So in the first time we did it, we were crying. I would imagine that given the number of takes we did with some of these things, it's hard to know which ones they use. But, you know, you don't want to cry and then, you know, have to do it too many more times because, you know, then you're forcing it. How many times did you do that, see?

We don't have a lot of time. I think we shot that movie like 20 days. So we had to get it in one or two, maybe three takes. So you grieve the death of your partner, Lynn Shelton, very public. and you help shape her legacy through your reflections. Now, you're starring in a film that deals with legacy and what an artist leaves behind. I'm just curious, talk about how the experiences have affected

thinking of your own legacy or what that will look like. Did you think about it doing this? No, I didn't. I don't... Would you like to try now? I'm going to try. Okay. You know, I don't...

Don't think, feel. I am feeling. I am feeling, you know, like I think about Lynn Shelton. I think about, you know, in this world of, you know, no context and everything all the time. And no real sense of history or what anything means in relation to it. You know, what is a legacy really mean? I don't know. So like, yeah, I mean, like, I've done a lot of stuff. And also, you know, the mindset around, you know, the difference between, you know, the difference between, you know, you know, you know, content and art and, you know, churning out content. And then, you know, everything we once knew was something amazing is just broken down into clips. You know, everything just churns away on our phone. None of us really think anymore. We just react to our phone. So, you know, what is legacy?

You know, what does it mean to me? I don't know. You know, my girlfriend died. And what happens is when anyone dies is, you know, a handful of people are like, well, what are we going to do with all this shit? So that's just the reality of it. You know, people say to me, you know, you should archive, you know, your letters and your notes and get them, you know, put it at a university. I'm like, for what?

So I don't know why this anger comes out sometimes. That's right. But like, even when I think of the podcast, you know, 1,700 episodes of fairly rare and singular interviews with a lot of people. Absolutely. And a lot of them are very deep and a lot of them are very revealing. They were moving for me. They exist in the world. And, you know, and I hope that people can go back to those. I was just walking down the street today. And some woman walks out of a doorway and she goes, oh, my God, I was just listening to you and Nick Kroll this morning. Now, what's interesting about that is either of those Nick Kroll episodes or at least, you know, one's a decade old or 15 years. And the other is at least a year or two. And I'm like, all right, well, that means something. You know, if any of these conversations I've had, or if any of my comedy bits, can still provide a service for people in terms of doing for people what they did for me when I was a kid, making sense of the world, looking at something in a different way,

elevating something, making someone feel less alone, making someone laugh at something that was, you know, stuck in their heart, then great. That's a great legacy to have. And I hope that happens. Well, that is legacy. Right. Right. Final question about this movie. How do you expect it's going to be received? I'm just curious. think about that at all? Where does it belong? I try not to think about that because... In movie land these days.

Where does it belong in movie land? Yeah. You know, it's like I don't... The great thing about this movie is, you know, I'm just an actor. And, you know, let Rob worry about that shit. Like, he texted me the other day. He's like, this is going to be a wild ride. It's going to be a lot of ups and downs.

I just don't want you to feel, you know, freaked out about it. I'm like, I'm not stressing at all. You're the director. You tell you. You know what I mean? I'm really not. You just hope with this thing, as he does, in terms of where anything fits in or how something is sold anymore. Or we live in a world where genius actors and brilliant writers and great directors do amazing things that no one sees. That is the world we're living in. Why? Because everything's broken open. Everything is like it's just the Wild West out there. There are no gay kids. and the ones that do exist are greedy and basing everything on an algorithm of people that could be, you know, fucking morons.

Yeah. So. Now you're speaking my language, but go ahead. Yeah, no, I mean, I get it, you know. So, so I think the hope is that the movie lands somewhere where it is seen by as many people as possible. You know, how, you know, one markets it or how, you know, nothing, you know, if you go on Netflix, you know, I've had specials on Netflix. you know, it's on the front page for a day.

And then this thing you worked three years on, people are like, you know, I don't know, I saw it yesterday, and now it's gone. Yeah, and then Charlie Saren is... Who the hell knows what's there? In prey or something. Yeah, I don't understand it. But I do know that I probably watch the menu of Netflix

more than I watch things on Netflix. Yeah, that's fair. It's a very good menu. It's a really interesting. It's just like you're getting a lot done. It's the same thing as scrolling reels. You're like, I don't know about that movie. You watch a trailer.

And why can't you turn the... trailers off. I don't know. That is the only thing. For a reason. I know it's for a reason, but it's annoying because the Apple remotes are too small. Okay. All right.

Okay. So. Okay. Do you think you'll make the in-memorium at the Oscars when you die? No. Okay. Why not? Sure you will.

I've done two movies. I know. I can't even. They bring in other people now. Huh? They bring in other people now. There's others. I don't know how they choose that.

I definitely won't make it. No? No. That probably wouldn't even make it. It depends on who dies that year, probably. Well, that's in the movie. Yeah. It's always going to be more than me.

Like, there's going to be, you know, there's going to be a gaffer that's done 90 movies. Yeah. Yeah. He's going to be in it. Maybe. They're going to be like Mark Maren did four movies. Well, Joe's the real deal. You know, like, so.

Yeah. I don't know. Like, I don't, look, I don't win prizes and I don't, like, I, like, I, it's, it's, because it's another validation. But it's not true, you know, it's actually not true anymore. You know, because I think, I don't know what people want, but I know that I'm not always giving it to them. Withholding. Yeah. Withholding.

And I know that. Yeah. It's not withholding. It's aggressive. It's the opposite. Okay. Because, like, in my specials, but I will, you know, to my own horn here, I did, my special, this one that's up now panicked, won the WGA Award. It did.

We run the Writers Guild Award. And it was up against S&L. 50. The Conan at the Mark Twain Center. Right. And Jordan Klepper Daily Show thing. Like massive staffs of writers. You have 15 guys on each staff.

And then just me. You know, Mark Maren panicked. So I was like, there's no way I'm going to win that thing. And I did. And it felt good because like that one, I think, has some, there's honor in that. The Writers Award. The single. Well, no.

Oh, the award itself. The award itself feels real. Like a golden globe. Fuck that. paid for. Fuck that. Yeah, right. Or like, or like, yeah, Saga Awards are fine.

But like, I know actors, and there's so many shows. Like, you know, what happens is you're going through. Still back on that Netflix menu you are. Well, no, you're going through the nominees and there's like 50 in its category. Yeah. And you only saw one of the things. So what you're voting is like, oh, I know her. And that's it.

You didn't even see what they did. But you know them. That's how we do political voting now. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We'll be back in a minute.

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all talk. Head to rippling.a-i-slash-K-R-I-S-K-R-E-L-I-L-N-G-A-I-S-K-A-R-A. Sign up for exclusive access today. Support for this show comes from Cohere. As AI advances, one thing matters more than ever, staying in control. Most AI comes with strings attached, like sharing your data and infrastructure or compromising your independence. With Cohere, you don't have to give up control to gain capability. You can have both. Cohere started seven years ago with a bold mission, scale enterprise intelligence without sacrificing sovereignty.

Their solution, AI leaves you in charge of your data and infrastructure allowing you to maintain your competitive edge. It's designed for enterprises, governments, and organizations that refuse to give up control in pursuit of innovation. From frontier models to out-of-the-box tools, cohere gives you everything you need to build and deploy secure scalable AI that drives growth and delivers results. Their platform is designed around your business with models that can be customized and trained on your proprietary data so the solution is uniquely yours. And control doesn't stop at customization.

Cohere is built with multi-layered protections, access and industry certified security standards that help safeguard your data while supporting privacy compliance and other requirements. As AI continues to transform every industry, Cohere gives you the power to put it to work, today on your terms. Take charge of your AI with Cohere. To learn more, visit cohere.com slash box. I'm going to shift to WTF and your life since ending the podcast. As you were whining on the show, you talked about the anxiety again. You felt about not having it in your life, in part because it helped you meet people. You said, quote, I live for connection. I live for it because I need to know I exist. So eight months, how's it going? I exist most days. Mm-hmm. Has it been eight months?

Yeah. What is going on with time? I don't know. I don't know. How did that happen? Yeah. Did COVID fuck up time? Yes.

And then now the phones fuck up time too. It eats your time. Oh my God. Anyway. Yeah. It's up and down with the time. Yeah. Because you have to realize, you know, half of my life I spent as a comic trying to be a comic.

Yeah. And you weren't hinged to the idea of being funny. You'd have a discussion. Well, no. But I mean, you just have time. Right. Like if you're not, like, if you're just being a comic and you're getting by early in your career as a comic on, you know, whatever, a few hundred bucks a week and living on the lowry side, running around doing one-nighters and stuff. I mean, outside of the drive to the gig and the half hour or hour you do, you've got another 22 hours.

Right. That you wander around high with a notebook, you know. So I've been, I've had time before. Right. Now I'm not high. and I have money. So it's a different kind of time. Right. So how's it going?

It's okay. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, well, I was surprised, you know, because I thought like after the podcast, like, you know, do I got to stay, how am I going to stay relevant? Right.

You know, maybe I'll get on Instagram, you know, do the live thing, you know. But then like after like a few weeks, I'm like, I don't want to do any of it. And I don't miss it. the sort of drive to generate. I mean, look, I know a lot of people love the podcast, and it was an important part of my life,

and I did it for 16 years. But to be honest with you, I really talk to everyone I want to talk to. There's like 1,700 people. How many more people? Was there one? Well, some people didn't want to do it. I can't make people do it.

People were like, you should get Dillon. I'm like, all right, call him. What do you want from me? Right. So, and I don't know. even think he'd be that great in interview. That's hit or miss with that guy. Yeah. Yeah. So, but, but no, literally what started to happen was, you know, I, I, I would get opportunities to talk to people and then I, you know, I'd have to decide. Like, you know, what, do I care about

their work? Do I know their work? If I don't know the work, but I am interested, can I get into their work, you know, which is just part of the gig. But then it gets to a point where it's like, do you want that job? Right. Like, if something that you love to do, where that, you know, sort of, you know, serviced a lot of different things in your life, becomes a job. Everything becomes a job. No. It does.

You're saying it doesn't? I say it doesn't. I love what I do. Oh, well, okay. Well, good for you. But I'm not anxious, like you. Well, I'm not that anxious, but, like, I know that feeding the monster. Like, you know, there's one thing, I get you're not anxious, but, you know, where does

ambition play into it? Right. You know, where's it just liked it. I mean, one of the things you said it was freeing at one point. because you could speak. Of course. No, I loved it. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that, like, there comes a point, you know, my producer and I worked together and for years, and it was just the two of us. We were not part of a network. Which is great. We were not, you know, gunning for money. It was never, it was never designed to be for money.

When we started the podcast, there was no way to make money. We never made it video because we believed in audio as a format and the intimacy of audio. It was never an idea to really make it video. And I think because of these principles are what we, what happened, like how it became a business. Like, I've been in modern podcasting, you know, since day one. So I saw the business grow and build and how it all worked out for everybody. So ultimately, it's a miracle, you know, that it gave me everything. It gave me. And I love doing it.

But after 16 years, a new show every Monday and Thursday, we were kind of fried. And also, like, because of the way the business has. has grown around us, there is nothing special about almost any of it. That the bar has been lowered to such a degree that people prefer parisocial relationships with mildly charismatic, fundamentally, usually untalented people than being engaged by anything provocative or truly interesting that someone made out of their imagination and heart. So, you know, I don't need to be a part of that anymore. Right, right. I see that. I see that. Wow. Did you think of yourself as an interviewer?

Or you just were like, I don't like this shit's happening anymore. I don't like how it's evolved. No, I just, like, I needed to connect with people because I thought when I started that podcast, you know, I thought I was an outsider. I thought I'd pissed a lot of people off. And a lot of it wasn't exactly true. But I mean, the first, the way I developed whatever my style of conversation was, you know, I would have people over in my world.

They were comics. And I would say, like, are we good? Do you mad at me about that thing? And nine times out of ten, they'd be like, I don't even remember what you're talking about. And, you know, I'd been carrying it around my whole life. Right. So, but through that, you know, some sort of drive happened in terms of my curiosity. My need to connect was always a big part of it.

But also just like, you know, not just connecting, but hearing how people work and hearing how people, you know, exist in those moments. Because I didn't, I never really had questions. you know, I would do some research, but like the whole thing hinged on those first. On your curiosity, right? And your curiosity. Sure, it was curiosity, but was also like, yeah, I had to be interested. Yeah. It's bad if I'm not interested.

Right. But just for people to know, it was 2009, which is very early. And you said it helped, quote, unleash an exciting type of delivery system for pure self-expression. The bono-o-o-wax. But also unleashing format that can be used for dubious means, propaganda and pure evil. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. This is the monster of podcast.

So how did you feel about, you ushered it in of all the people I can think of one of the, a couple. Among the beginning, the OG people probably, you're on the list. But the thing was is that I think what, look, I'm not a businessman, I'm not an entrepreneur, and I'm not a grifter. Okay. So, you know, those weren't on my menu. But I would say that's 94% of podcasts. So whatever I was doing at the beginning, you know, I didn't invent interviewing. I don't know why some people can live on these mics and connect and why some people can't.

But what happened was that because of, you know, my success and a few other people, everyone decided that anyone could do it. Right. And they can. Right. But go, there is a graveyard of four episodes of someone's dream podcast. Mm-hmm. thousands of them. Thousands.

Since 2008, there's got to be like a million, you know, three to four episodes of someone who entered it going like, this is going to be great. And by week four, they're like nine people listened. So do you feel responsible for that great you are? Sure, but like I'm just, a lot of them didn't go away. Yeah, yeah, they didn't. Now, last month, for example, the businesses evolved, as you said. You said, grifters, entrepreneurs, and what was the third one?

Grifters, entrepreneurs and businessmen, yeah. Propagandists. There's a lot. There's a lot of things going on. Last month, Spotify and Netflix acquired the video rights to distribute Jay Shetty's on-purpose podcast and a deal. Who? Who? Who?

I don't know who that is. Maybe I'm out of the loop. Well, he got $100 million. It's part of Netflix brought a push in a podcast, an effort to compete with YouTube. Do you think about that and staying? Do you think about the cashing in? When I saw, you know, podcasts on the menu of Netflix, I'm like, it's fucking over. You know, no one gives a shit about anything.

What the bar has been lowered to such a degree that people will sit at home and watch people on Zoom with half their fucking face covered up at sure SM7? It's like, what is wrong with fucking people? Like, do they not have any friends? Are they not curious about anything? Do they not use their brain anymore? They can't think they've got to have three idiots who are talking about the last time they shit themselves as adults. You know, entertain them. I mean, it's like a fucking world of drive time radio.

It's the worst. Right. So why do you think it's popular? Huh? Why do you think it's popular? Because people are lazy and they'll adapt to anything and they're fucking lonely and they want to have parisocial relationships with people they feel that they're like. which means usually fucking amateurs. Right, right.

Okay. All right, then, I think that's it. Well, a lot of them... I don't know. Keep going on. I don't know what's going on with me. Okay. I like it.

I like it. I like it a lot, actually. Actually, a lot of people you're referring to in your... This is because I don't have the podcast anymore. Yeah. You have to... They're like the anger's right there again. Right, I know.

I like it. It's good. Keep going on stage, you know. I think it's better for the stage. Like, because I was worried. after the podcast, like, you know, people aren't going to know my dates. But I think people, like, miss me because the tickets are selling great. Yeah.

Like, I just use Instagram to promote stuff, you know, or put clips up. But I think the not doing the podcast has made some people sort of like, well, I've got to see what the cats are up to. Yeah, it's how can they miss you if you won't go away? We'll be back in a minute. Hi, I'm Maria Sharapova, host of the Pretty Tough podcast. Each episode, I sit down with high achieving women to discuss the pursuit of excellence without Apology. This week, model Sports Illustrated cover girl and entrepreneur Ashley Graham talks about the time she almost quit. I called my mom and I said, Mom, I just, I'm not going to do this anymore. And she told me,

no, you are going to stick this out. Your body is going to change someone's life. Every decade, you're going to go through something different. So be really happy with who you are right now because things change. Check out Pretty Tough, new episodes on Wednesdays. You can watch it on YouTube or listen in your favorite podcast app. So the 2026 midterms is shaping up to be an all-out brawl. But the biggest fight may not be between Democrats and Republicans, but over the congressional maps itself. Jurymandering is not a good thing.

We don't like it. And then all of a sudden, we're going out and telling people vote for this. So I'm in Ashland, Virginia, a small town just outside of Richmond, which calls itself the center of the universe. And that checks out because it's the center of the political universe, at least when it comes to the 2026 midterms. That's because Ashland's, in Virginia's first congressional district, which is one of only about 35 or so that are actually

competitive. That makes Virginia particularly important when it comes to the question of gerrymandering. The jerrymandering is a major problem, but it's not like Democrats drew first blood with this one. Donald Trump doesn't think he should be held accountable by anybody, so he's trying to change the rules because it doesn't like the game. We've shown what we're capable of. Now let's keep up the push through the midterms. America actually will be in your feeds and on YouTube every Saturday. with an interesting interview in politics or culture. Big news this week for all my Gordon Geckos, my Robin Hooders, my Claude Squad Anthropic,

which is newly the most valuable AI company in SeWorld, announced it would be going public. That news follows reporting that Open AI plans to go public as soon as September, and that that news follows reporting that Space X, which also considers itself an AI company, will be going public in maybe just a few weeks. from now. Welcome to the era of the Omega IPO. We are about to see millionaires, billionaires, and yes, probably even the world's first trillionaire created overnight. And yes, it's that guy. This is the chainsaw for bureaucracy. Change saw. But all the tech bros who are going to make all the money, they need our money way more than we need their products. And we're going to remind you

why on today explained from Vox. One of the groups in your latest HBO special panic, you criticize with the Manosphere, podcasts are full of this. And one notable line was, if Hitler were alive today, he'd probably appear on Theo Vaughn's podcast. He'd probably have a podcast. Anyway, talk about this, what's happening here with these guys. Well, look, you know, like I had to really deliberate or delegate, or what's the word

I want. I didn't think about that bit, you know, because I know these guys. I've known them my whole life. I knew them before there was a manosphere. Right. I knew them as comics. You know, I knew Rogan when he started in Boston. I've known these guys.

We are somewhat of a weird tribe and a community. So, like, it gets to a point where, look, my politics are what they are. You know, I'm team left. You know, I'm not going to make all the games. Right. But I'm team left. You know, like, going downtown to fight the, I'm like, not today, I think. but, you know, good, good luck with it.

And I'll look on, I'll keep following you on the reels, you know. So, but I've always been that way. Yeah. You know, that's always been my politics. And, you know, I believe in, you know, liberal democracy. I believe in it. So, so, but like with the Theo Vaughn thing, I, I, that's a joke and it's a good joke. Yeah.

You know, to do Theo interviewing Hitler is hilarious. Right. And I eventually got to a place with that joke, right? I'm like, how could Theo get mad at me for this? Right. It's funny. Right. But they're sensitive, those fellas.

Did they get mad at you? Well, Joe said you got mad at me. I don't know. Yeah, you got little beat there. They get hurt, you know. They're very delicate flowers. They are a little bit. Yeah.

They are. They are. I don't know why that is. Well, it's billionaires are like that. I get so many calls like you're so mean to me. And I go, go buy France. Go fuck yourself. You know?

But like my, my issue was, and I think that many of them, look, I don't want to be diplomatic about this. Please don't. And I've talked about this a lot. Yeah, you talked about it in the special. And I talked about it when I was promoting the special. My problem with those guys, what they is that they were sucking up to fascists and they were promoting the end of liberal democracy and the beginning of authoritarianism.

And to me, that was plain and clear to see. So my issue with them was because of that. It was political and it was like they were bootlickers and they were pawns. But I also think they were suckers. And I also think that some of them are grifters. Is that, you know, some of these guys, it's like they're going to go to where the money is. And the audiences they built, you know, like even before I made these comments, like, you know, would I ever go on Joe's show? Because he's sort of a, you know, a starmaker or Tony's show.

It's like, no, I wouldn't because what am I going to do with that audience? Right, right. Do you know, I've got my audience. They're delicate, you know, angry, creative, middle-aged people, but they're my people, you know. So. And there's enough of them, you know. And I think we need to speak up. And in that special, I was, you know, I took, I balanced that special.

It's a delicate thing to sort of take the, and hits the lefties in a way that they could handle it. So, and I did that. But, but really my, my, and it does. seem that the tide is turning, you know, like Dylan and Schultz and Rogan have become critical. They're seeing what's happening. Right, but you know what that means, though? It's over and they need to get back. Well, right. Maybe they don't know where it's dragging them, but I think really that a lot of these guys and people in general, they don't have a worldview. They're reacting. Like, I don't, you know, I don't think they think it through. Right. You know, a couple of guys got mad at me for the,

the Riyadh joke. And these are jokes I'm doing. Everything on that special was a joke. And all the stuff that I was doing, promoting the special, taking them to task a bit was, you know, it was done in the spirit of comedy, you know, but these are jokes. Right. But they have some teeth to them, and they're not their teeth, right? I just got to the point where it's like, you know, lefties or comics that are progressive, it's difficult to talk about politics. And it's difficult to talk about left-weaning politics without, you know, seeming strident and, you know, annoying. And so it's that, then those two things are not great for funny. Yeah.

So. But you've been outspoken against the sort of so-called anti-woke angle in comedy is pure hack. And it is just, it is. It's become hack. Yeah. It's like a boob joke to me. Huh? It's like a boob joke to me.

A boob joke? Boob jokes are funnier. But you know what I mean? It's like the easiest joke to do. Look, a good dick joke is always great. Listen, I was, hello. Oh, I'm with Scott Galloway all the fucking time. So I'm aware of the situation.

So, but the thing that bothered me about that is like, they were, whether they knew it or not in the beginning of, of anti-wokeness, that that was always like, you know, the Republican, you know, what the Republicans and the right have always wanted for the last three or four decades was the dismantled, you know, liberal democracy. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, some of them are still.

pissed off about the new deal. So, you know. And women's vote. Right. All of that stuff. And this has been brewing for so long that, you know, when comics get duped into this idea that because they can't say tranny or worse words, that somehow or another that the left is infringing upon their freedom of speech, it's so shallow and stupid. And because they fought for it, they just became part of the party line of dismantling liberal

democracy. Which they didn't even know. It was never a freedom of speech issue. It was never a constitutional issue. Never. You can say whatever you want and you're just going to have to shoulder the burden of consequences. Yeah, of the consequences.

But ultimately what happened because they were used as cudgels to dismantle the, you know, the entire infrastructure of DEI and everything else, right? So now like, they don't have to shoulder anything because now they can say those words with impunity and the left have no traction to counter it because we're living in two separate worlds. But I hold them responsible for being the front line of... Being the dupe and the cudgel. The stupid hammer. That's right. Yeah, I think that's true. And so for me, it was always a big picture thing. And now, like, some of them, I don't know if they know that, but they know they, you know, that it's... I think they're understanding their

suckers at this point. I think they're getting, the penny is dropping. I think so. And it's just like, you know, what do you know, it's weird? Like I've been working on this bit, you know, on stage, just about how like, that there's going to be people now, MAGA people that are going to be like, oh, man, I think I screwed up. You know, and you're probably going to come in contact with them. And I think the instinct of a progressive or a left-leaning person is to be like, yeah, you fucking idiot. You broke the world, you dumb shit. Right.

What the fuck is wrong with you, stupid? And, but I think really the play is to not say anything. But, and I'm talking about without the face. None of this. No, you know, none of that. Just, you know, just don't say anything and let them sit with it. Do that face again, please. Just let them sit with it and go, look, you know, we always love.

you, Dad. Yeah, good idea. All right, every episode, we only have a little bit, we're going to run over a little bit, every episode we get a question. Run over, you can go as long as you want. It's a podcast. Fantastic, okay. Every episode, we get a question from an outside expert.

Here is yours. Hi, I'm Tignotaro, comedian, podcaster, actor, mother, wife, friend, and certified gay person. my big question for Mark Marin is where do you get your gumption? I've told you many times the deep appreciation I have for your continued, strong, steady, outspoken, bold views that really should not be bold views. But they are views that do not line up with the majority of your peers that you came up with.

I feel like you're truly fighting the good fight. and I do not take your voice for granted. You're so important to so many. Where do you get your gumption? I really want to know way back when and where it comes from. Thank you, sir. Oh, I love to, you know, there's a period there. I've known her for a long time.

Many years, like before she was Tate, kind of. Yeah. There was a period there where we were dressing almost identically. Yeah. I can see it. Yeah. You've got a lesbian vibe Sure do

Yeah, I do I do, I know Even the facial hair Yeah, I'm a little bit You're her suit, you'd be a her suit lesbian Yeah, it was just very funny Because we'd go to festivals Or we'd work together

And we'd look at each other I'm like, what is happening? You know, like Where do I get my gumption? I'm a guy that's like It's a great word Well, I think I'm I like to poke

And And I think that's part of, you know, my comedy and also part of the way that, you know, I interact with people that it's the opposite of withholding. It's the poking to see if you can get a rise out of people. And I think I've always sort of done that to see if maybe I'd get yelled at or maybe I wouldn't, you know, I don't know what that exactly is about. But I'm also somebody who I've said all the things you can say on stage in my career, in my life. I've made, I wouldn't call them mistakes, but, you know, in different times, I've done dubious jokes.

I'm not saying I said the N word. I'm not saying I hurt people. But, you know, I know I've learned from experience and from people talking to me about what is hurtful, what is wrong. You know, maybe you should think about this a different way. Like, I used to do a joke many, many years ago about transgender, the idea of it. But, you know, and it was something to do with, like, becoming a mythological, you know, an entity. And to me, I thought it was a celebration, but someone said to me, no, it's, it's,

it's not correct. You know, I used to do, I used to try to, you know, frame the R word in a way. I always knew it was kind of bad, but there was, like, in my mind, you know, maybe if we explored it, but then someone said to me, like, you know, if you have, you know, someone, you know, in your family or your son or your daughter and they're, they're challenged like that, it's incredibly hurt for it. So I've made a lot of mistakes, personally. in all different ways. And I've learned from those things. And that makes, for me, the passion about my point of view deeper. I'm not just reacting. It's not coming from, you know, I'm not posturing. You know, I feel these things. Yeah. And it's not just a fight. And so the gumption is really,

and really what it comes down to is this anger that's popped up a couple of times tonight. like that happened on the Howie Mandel show because he was like it's harder when you're with somebody like if you're sitting with somebody that you disagree with like you know if I see Theo like you know when I'm gonna

it's amazing that I haven't you know what happens then you know if I see Joe or if I see Tony all these guys who have Will there be a fist fight? No no no there won't be a fist fight but what I think what eventually

what will happen is not unlike I guess everyone talks about this time when we could put our politics aside and still be people with each other. I assume that is probably what will happen. Do you know what I mean? Like, you know, I assume that, you know, if I see Theo or Tony or the guys that have seen who have responded to me. Yeah, they have. Which is fine. You know, it's a lot. I don't love that. That's the other thing about wanting approval or validation is that, you know, when you're going to speak up, you've got to realize, well, you're not going to get it from everybody, you know, and you've got to live with that. Yeah. Yeah.

Even if they're your peers. So what does that encounter look like? Well, I imagine it would be like, what's up, you know, and they're like, hey. So what are we, are we good or what are we doing? Yeah, I'm all right. All right. Okay. Well, good to see you.

Hope you well. Yeah. And then maybe it'd be like, they'd be like, oh, you're so right. I don't think so. I don't think so. It would be nice. That was the case. You know, it's interesting. But as you say, you don't like it. I mean, I, unfortunately, the people who insult me, one of them, is about to become a trillionaire, so I'm totally fucked. Who said I had a heart. Why, is he just going to, like, crush you with his money? Yes, he will throw money on top of me. I'll say, please, keep throwing it. He'll be one of them.

But it's, it's raped because he's going to kill you with the money. Yes, but he can try. He can try. I don't think he'll be successful. Speaking of Elon Musk, last year, Elon Musk went on... Oh, that guy? That guy. Trust me.

Went on Rogan and said, quote, the fundamental weakness of Western civilization is empathy. Conservative writer Helen Andrews says that demographic feminization that values empathy over rationality has led to wokeness. Essentially, women are empathetic, and that leads to bad politics. I want you to kind of make the kids. for empathy, because I think you are very empathetic. At the same time, as you've noted, how do you counter that if you're on the left or progressive? Are you doomed to nuance and

verbosity? Or what is the way to counter that idea? I don't, you know, like, I had to become better at empathy. You know, I had to become a better listener. I think that certain things help me with that. I have to give a lot of credit to recovery for the process of of listening and, you know, hearing somebody's story and what they've gone through. So, but I do think that this stuff, the battle against empathy and the battle against self-awareness, which is the other one. Lack of expertise as a plus. Yes.

I mean, these are just, you know, tenets of, of fascism and making it work. So how do you fight that? I mean, obviously, you know, I used to do this. line like what they're basically saying is empathy's for suckers. Yeah. And you know, how you calibrate your empathy and how you use it and how you don't get drained by your own empathy or whether your empathy is real or you're really just in some sort of, you know, victim mode that is only feeling exhausted by the moral injustice of every day in this country right now. I think you have to protect yourself on some level to maintain, you know, a righteous anger and figure out really how

you can use it and how you can best be of service to other people. But I think a lot of it, you know, and I'm guilty of this, is like, how much are you really getting out and doing anything? Right. You know, I mean, you have, you may feel a certain way and you may believe something is wrong. And, you know, you may post a post or send it, send a check. Hashtagivism, I think it's Yeah, whatever that is, you know, but are you present to really be of service and really help? And then when you get into that zone, if you are a sensitive person or a person who is full of empathy or broken in a certain way, then you can start beating yourself up for, you know, not being more involved, not doing enough. Right. And then, you know.

You don't think you're doing stuff. That's really, you are. I mean, obviously, it's transformed lives through your podcast. I don't think you read. Yeah. No, I don't, I'm not saying this about me. you know, I feel like I'm always surprised that making a difference on an individual level. If somebody says to me, you know, I was depressed or, you know, many people, you know,

I've helped get sober or the way I've processed stuff or or speaking out, you know, like like TIG says, it, it does do something. You know, I think you can do things without putting yourself in harm's way. How does this your end when you think about it? Because, you know, I've had a different. deal with all the tech oligarchs who have just seemed to have sucked up every bit of oxygen and all the juicy bits in our society. How does it this end from your perspective? What the world? No, no.

Probably in a blast. But how do you think about this time ending where this doesn't seem where we, I mean, I think it's on the march because Elon, for example, is a good example of this, has turned into a villain when he wasn't necessarily. But has become that. At the same time, he's also about to become the world's richest person ever in history. How does it end? And Trump is sort of rotting away in front of our eyes.

I don't know how it ends because I don't know if, you know, if the agenda was to kill the spirit of the 60s, you know, and kill the progress that was made on a human level in this, in a relatively democratic format. And the power of technology and the access that everyone has to your brain or to your life. And then the people in power, you know more about that stuff than I do. But I think, I don't know how it ends, but we've got to stop, you know, volunteering for the brain fucking. Yeah. And it's not a good fuck. It's not a good fuck. No, no. It's just okay.

Yeah. But, you know, if you really think about, like, you know, today, because I think about it all the time, and it's all relative to the monster that you spend your day looking at, that your phone. It's all relative to that. I mean, that's everyone's point of access. Right. And if you just go on the subway and you, it's like, it's insane that nobody is looking at anybody. Right.

So I think, sadly, the way it ends is everyone just. disappears into whatever the other side of that is. Interesting. Chatbots and avatars and everything. Whatever. That said, something I do a lot, I think you should do it. I think it would be excellent, is when I'm walking down the street and someone's staring at their phone, I go very close behind them and I go, look up and everybody does it. For a second.

No, they do it. They're like, oh, I suck. Snap me out of it. Yeah. Yeah. It was interesting. They go, I suck. And then at some point, someone's going to turn around and shoot me.

but I feel so far I haven't been shot. Yeah, I tried to do a joke about, like, Denver seems to really land as a joke, though, about how, like, you know, in an authoritarian country, what they really want is for you to, you know, keep your mouth shut and keep your head down. And it's so much easier with the phone.

Yeah, that's a great joke. It always lands as a sort of like, mm-hmm, you know, like, not a big laugh. Maybe if you include brain fucking in there, it might work. Well, I do a lot of bits about that because I do think I'm sort of, I'm just, I'm working out this stuff, you know, for myself. Because like today, like, you just being on the train here culturally is kind of awesome to be on a subway. Yeah. The people you're surrounded.

Amazing. It's, it's, this is like, this is a great example of, of democracy on a social level working. People banging up against each other, yeah. Well, yeah, just people like, you know, you got someone sitting on your lap. Yeah. And you're sort of like, all right, okay. You know, like, and I just, you know, I'm trying, you got to, the phone, it's an addiction, because it's a full spectrum dopamine jerk off, right?

So, and you can spend, and I know it, and I just share this as an addict in a room full of addicts. You know, that an indicator that you are addicted to something is if you've tried to quit and you've failed. and the number of times you've done that would indicate whether or not your life is unmanageable or you're powerless over a substance. And I've had many times where I've been sitting with my phone scrolling. I don't

know why they call it doom scrolling. It's fun. So like where I've been doing it and I've just said, dude, put the fucking phone down. And some other part of my brain is like, why? Well, you know, there's no other industry where they call, there's one

other industry where they call users. Yeah. Drugs? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Good one.

Thank you. Is that yours? Yeah, it is. I like it. Okay, borrow it, take it, steal it, whatever you want. What are you doing next? Me? What's your next thing?

Hey, you. No. That lady. I thought you were just general audience question. Where's everyone going? Where's everyone going? I'm going to watch the videos on my phone of Trump getting booed at that will be a satisfying time with my phone.

Well, I'm working on New Hour of Stand Up. It's coming along good. You know, we're probably going to be moving towards a special in that area. I just shot the second season of Stick with Owen Wilson. That should be coming out in November. And I'm trying to put together a movie to direct, based on my friend Sam Lipsight's novel, No One Left to Come Looking for You. Well, fantastic. I'm looking forward. I wish you were still in podcasting. You really were fantastic at it.

Well, I appreciate that. And I wish it everyone would stop. I know. And yet, and yet, you were really good at it. Thank you very much. All right. Thank you, Mark Mann. Today's show is produced by Christian Castor Roussel, Michelle Alloy, Catherine Millsop, Madeline, LaPlante, Duby, and Kalin Lynch. Heshot Karwa is Vox Media's executive producer and podcast. Special thanks to a Jewel Julia Sharp Levine, Max Levine, and Bradley Sylvester. Our engineers are Fernando Arruda and Rick Kwan, and our theme music is by Tracademics. If you're only following the show, you'll be immortalized in the Oscars montage.

If not, maybe they can squeeze you into the daytime Emmys. Go wherever you listen to a podcast, search for On with Carous Swisher and hit follow. Thanks for listening to On With Caroushisher from Podium Media, New York Magazine, the Vox Media Podcast Network, and us. We'll be back on Monday with more. this show comes from NetSuite. The AIA revolution is here and every business is looking to wrap their arms around it. And while the possibilities are endless, so are the risks. But there's no time to twist and turn about the decision because your competitors are already making their move.

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