On with Kara Swisher - Peek Inside the Club You Can't Join, with Jeff Klein

Episode Date: May 14, 2026

Kara talks to hotelier and hospitality entrepreneur Jeff Klein about the global private club boom. Klein is the founder of the San Vicente clubs, ultra-exclusive, members-only clubs in Los Angeles and New York. Klein explains how our era of loneliness and digital exhaustion paved the way for the resurgence of members-only clubs and why privacy is the ultimate luxury. He and Kara discuss his path from working as a bellman in New York to owning the Sunset Tower Hotel in West Hollywood, and how he transformed a run-down “sin bin” into the San Vicente Bungalows. Plus: how Klein plans to grow and scale his business while keeping its soul.  Questions? Comments? Email us at [e-mail] or find us on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, Threads, and Bluesky @onwithkaraswisher. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's really hard to get me to come into a club. And one of the famous ones was like, we'd really like you to have you here. And I was like, I'd really like rather not to go. I'm going to the hardware store, which is my favorite club. It's on. Hi, everyone, from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. This is On with Kara Swisher, and I'm Kara Swisher. My guest today is Jeff Klein, a hotel owner, hospitality entrepreneur,

and founder of the San Vicente Clubs. They're private members-only clubs that have become popular with celebrities and many others in Los Angeles and New York. Klein was early to the now booming private club scene, and he's looking to expand his clubs globally. Before San Vicente, Klein opened several boutique hotels and restaurants, including the Sunset Tower Hotel in Hollywood. He has a knack for taking distressed historic properties

and transforming them into chic, distinctive spaces. I want to talk to Jeff because he has a real joy of entrepreneurship, and I always talk to tech entrepreneurs or maybe media entrepreneurs, but hospitality entrepreneurs are very interesting, and they put together a lot of things. And right now there's a real moment where people really are valuing community and spaces and gatherings.

And it's something I talk about in my CNN special. Kara Swisher wants to live forever about social connections being really important. And I think Jeff has exquisite taste and sort of a joy of life that I think is a wonderful thing to have in an entrepreneur. And he makes beautiful things

and he doesn't go too far with it. And I appreciate that as an entrepreneur. Our expert question today comes from another fantastic entrepreneur, Chip Conley in the hospitality space. He's incredibly well known. And I was thrilled that he got to ask Jeff a question. So stick around. A quick note before we get to the interview, I'm doing a special live episode of On with Kara Swisher with guest Mark Merrin on the opening night of the Tribeca Film Festival podcast stage. It's June 8 at 8 p.m. tickets are available at

Tribecafilm.com slash audio. So see you there. What's up y'all? I'm Skyler Diggins, seven-time WMBA All-Star, Olympic gold medalist, and mom. And I'm Cassidy Hubbard, host and reporter for nearly 20 years covering the biggest names and stories in sports and mom. And this is Am Mom, a community for athletes, game changers, and moms of all kinds. Dropping May 14th. Tap in with us. If you're tired of endless scrolling to figure out where to eat, same. I'm Stephanie Wu, editor-in-chief of Eighty-Eaf.

We've just launched the new-ish and way better Eater app. It has all the restaurants we love, gives you personalized picks wherever you are, and serves up smarter search results just for you. You can find my list of the best places for martinis and fries in New York City. And save your favorite spots, share lists, follow editors, and book right in the app. Download the Eater app at Eaterapp.com. It's free for iOS users. Jeff, thanks for coming on on.

Thank you for having me. So you're nervous about coming on, and you called yourself the gay Larry David, which made me laugh. But you have nothing to worry about. I'm very interested in your business and where it's going, especially right now. So why don't you explain yourself what you do? You've built a successful business by seeing the potential that others miss. You've rehabilitated multiple distressed and neglected properties that weren't obvious candidates for luxury clubs or boutique hotels and imagine what they could become. to talk about what you do and talk about your sort of overarching philosophy and what you look for

when you're thinking about this right now. Yeah, I mean, it's an interesting question because I think people often don't, they confuse what I'm selling. I mean, I'm really, I'm not selling dinner or drinks or a room. You know, those are really delivery systems. And what I'm selling or trying to sell is a belonging and a psychological safety, kind of like trusted human interaction, atmosphere obviously, access to a certain emotional experience, I would say, and feeling a part of something that's curated and meaningful. People think we're selling largely hospitality, but we're not. We're really selling human connection in an environment where people can actually relax and be themselves. Talk about exactly what you do so people can understand

your business. Well, I started in the hotel business. I started as a bellman right after college, And I worked for someone who really taught me the hotel business from the ground up, literally, became my mentor, the same boss. And I went into the hotel business, so I've always been in hospitality my whole life. In about 2010, Soho House opened in Los Angeles, and they invited me to be a founding member for free. And I said, no, because I was like, that place will never survive. Yeah, they were skeptical initially. Very skeptical. call, and I thought who would pay membership fees, you know, to go to a place like this,

and I couldn't have been more wrong. And what I noticed was that it was very powerful when it came to town. And I felt like I could do it better. I felt like I could create a better atmosphere with a better menu and better service and a better curation of the crowd. And that's when I found the first San Francisco Bungalows, which is a private membership club, and now there's three of them, two in Los Angeles and one in New York. Right. And you also have the hotel business. Right. I'm a part owner in the

Sonsa Tower. I sold a piece of it. I have a partner in it. And I started in the hotel business. And the hotel business is what allowed me to go into the private membership business, because essentially I applied all of that knowledge of how to create an experience for a customer and how to deliver food and beverage and whatnot. And, The piece that I had to learn was the membership piece, which is not easy, and I made a lot of mistakes. But I think, you know, the reason I'm saying that is because what's harder is today you're seeing, like, a lot of people trying to go into the membership club business. Let's talk about this boom, because there's a real private club boom now. Private members-only

clubs are on the rise in cities across the U.S. There's nothing new about them, especially in New York. And London has, like, that's how people socialize. And they were a fixture in socialized during the Gilded Age. But now we're seeing private clubs in places like Jacksonville, Florida, Lexington, Kentucky. Talk about what's driving this wave. And as you noted, the Soho House is credited with helping spark the private club boom. It opened its first club in London in 1995 and has more than 46 locations at over 200,000 members. So talk a little bit about why the boom is happening here in this country and maybe compare it to somewhere like London. Well, yeah. I mean, I think, you know, clubs are booming because people are

profoundly lonely and digitally exhausted. Technology has connected everyone, but emotionally it's disconnected people from each other. And a lot of institutions that used to create repeated human interaction weakened, like churches, town halls, civic groups, even offices after COVID. And so people are still, you know, people still fundamentally need tribes and ritual and familiarity and belonging. And clubs are filling part of that vacuum. The more digital life becomes, a more valuable physical human interaction becomes. I mean, there's just, I notice it every day.

And I feel kind of lucky. I always say I'd rather be lucky than smart, you know, because we're really providing a sense of community. And people are like, oh, well, do you think there's too many clubs? I think the opposite, I think we're going to notice a lot more clubs in the future. And the good ones are going to understand how, to find their niche. Trying to be everything to everyone, I think,

is where these clubs are getting into trouble. Right. Or too expensive. There used to be, you know, various clubs around New York was everyone belonged to. And again, in London, everyone has a club and has had it for hundreds of years, correct? There is a sort of a comfort. And it's not

necessarily just for the rich, correct? Not for the super rich. Although this tends to be the demo you have. Well, I don't think my demo is super rich. Not super rich. But with some funds. Look, I think today most social interaction is transactional and it's scheduled and it's online. And I think people are willing to actually pay for this, which is why I don't think they're necessarily rich.

You know, younger people are joining in droves. Honestly, younger generations grew up online. Ironically, that's made real-life interaction feel more novel and valuable to them. I believe it's what I'm noticing. there are these clubs for the rich, you know, which are super expensive. You know, there's golf clubs that are like a million dollars, and there's other clubs that are super expensive. So I think people are willing to splurge on this because I think it's much more meaningful. I mean, what I'm also noticing when I talk to some of our younger members, because I'm like, look, I wouldn't be able to afford this when I was, you know, 32.

What they're saying is I'd rather spend this on like an expensive. bag or because it's an experience and it's, and as we know, young people love experiences. And getting a piece of clothing or a special watch or even a car is not, it's no longer important to them because it's so available. I mean, you can just go online. Even on Amazon, you can buy all these, like, ridiculous luxury goods. So I think they are spending money differently. And I think I'm lucky in that clubs are the recipient of one of those things. So when you talk about people have to find their niche, what do you mean by that? Because there could be too many copycats, right, as you were noting earlier. Yeah, I mean, there are copycats.

I mean, look, I can only talk about my niche, which is pretty specific. I mean, this is going to sound like a little haughty. But I always, well, my aspiration, and when I like talk to the people that I work with is I want to be the Hermes of clubs. I don't necessarily want to have the most clubs or the coolest clubs, but I do want to have the best ones. And that means that they're very individual in each location. They're very specific to that location. They're part of the fabric of the community of that location. I don't want them to be hot where it's like, you know, the Kardashians are there every night or whatever. It should feel like it's... Not a club. Yeah, it's like your second home almost. And I think that it also comes down to the

quality of the club members, and we're really tough about that. Well, your clubs are notoriously hard to get into. According to one estimate, there's roughly 7,000-person waitlist. You prioritize candidates who are engaging and you reject a lot of billionaires saying that, quote, just because someone has money doesn't make them interesting. I know this, Jeff. You know I know this. So talk about your criteria and give us a window into how you think about that then if you're trying to create not just experiences, but Scott was saying Scott belongs to 900 clubs essentially because he's desperate for something that he's never going to get a hole, an empty hole that she'll never be filled. But you're laughing, but it's true. But talk about crowd curation what you mean by that and what you're trying to do and maybe compare it to others. Yeah, I mean, we're definitely not looking for the richest people.

We're looking for people who make the environment better. And it's really hilarious because people are always saying, oh, my God, he's a billionaire. Why don't you take them? And it's like, no, who cares if he's a bit? I mean, no one is going to walk in and say, and by the way, that, you know, it just doesn't make them interesting. It's just another, you know, Rick's white guy, really, at the end of the day. So I think what matters is curiosity matters, kindness matters, creativity matters, social intelligence matters, energy. We want people that are additive to the atmosphere.

The mistake people make is assuming exclusivity means wealth. Wealth alone is not very interesting. And we're trying to create a chemistry in the room. And so I think that, you know, we're curating behavior and culture as much as demographics. It's hard to do. I mean, you know, there is a whole process and there's a committee. But I think that, you know, back to my Hermes analogy, that's part of the, quality that we're trying to deliver. So unlike Hermes, where the product is maybe

sticking in leather, for us, this is part of our product. And it's really, we have to be really tough about it. Right. What does the committee do? Do you all meet and like start drinking or what happens? We don't drink. Talk about the process and the committee. So there's an application. Well, the greatest question on the application, I have to admit. I mean, I feel like I'm going to ruin it. We're going to need to find another one after everybody hears this. The best question is, what's your favorite restaurant and why? And it says so much about a person. So we ask other more traditional questions, like, please tell us who you are. And we also have a great question where we say, you know, are you single? And if not, please tell us about your other person who

shows a picture. That also tells a lot about them. But the restaurant piece. Yeah, I want to know why that. Well, because if you get somebody that's like, I love club Sank on Sank and Samprepe. We're kind of like, that's not the right person for this club. You know, and it kind of catches them off guard because Sink on Sank may be their favorite restaurant. Nothing against Sank on Sank that's a great restaurant. It's just not my thing. Very expensive. And it's just not, you know.

Yeah, I know. I've been there. I was dragged there. I did not pay. With Scott? With Scott? Yes, of course. No, he was actually during Con Lyons.

I don't remember who dragged me, but it was like, are you fucking getting me? Like, I liked it, though. I like seeing it. I like seeing it. It's like, here. No, it's an anthropologically, you have to go there. Yes, exactly. It's like, but it's not like where I'd want to go.

I used to call it forced fun. Forced fun is how I felt about it. Yes, that's right. Forced fun. It was like everyone was paying so much and therefore they had to have fun or else. So it was funny. I will tell you my favorite restaurant, anchor bar in San Francisco and the Castro. Small, tiny, oyster place.

That's my absolute favorite place on the earth. It's authentic. It's special. You'd probably lean into why it's your favorite, which I'd like to hear. It's wonderful. Everybody, well, it's small. You have to wait for it. It's got amazing food.

It's always a lot of the same stuff, but it's all delicious seafood and oysters and Chupino. And I've taken my kids there their whole lives. My kids and I love going there. And it's my happy place, one of my happy places in San Francisco. See, that's a great answer. I was going to give another example, you know, some little restaurant in Uruguay that somebody took their grandmother and now she's no longer, you know, like whatever.

It tells you a lot about a person when they answer that question. So you're just trying to get an interesting person, and it depends on what strikes you as interesting, right? It's not necessarily, I'll take all the quirky people kind of thing. No, but we like quirky. Yes, I mean, and, you know, I hate to use this word because it's being overused, but diversity. is important. I don't just mean racial diversity, but like we will not accept a man if we don't accept a woman. Like sexual diversity, I was so excited when the first trans person applied and we have a few trans people in all the clubs. And then also occupational diversity. So,

like, one of the things that happened in Los Angeles that we had to kind of slow down was there were just too many people in the entertainment industry applying. In New York, there were too many people from the banking industry applying. And age diversity. You know, some clubs focus on only young people. I always say the best party is a wedding. And it has all three generations. It's true.

It is, right? Or the worst party. It's either the best party. Right, if it's a bad idea. But it's still good. It's bad. But we're trying to create the greatest dinner party every day and every day. every night. So that's how you think about it. Like, well, who are you going to invite to your

wedding and who are you going to invite to that list? I mean, look, the thing, the boundaries piece of it, which I think you were alluding to, like every meaningful community has boundaries. I mean, universities do, churches do, neighborhoods do. The real question is whether the culture inside of those boundaries creates something valuable and human, which is what my job is to deliver. Right, right. So privacy is a big part of your brand. You've seen. said that it's the ultimate luxury today. And that seems like a direct reaction the way cameras on smartphones, social media anxiety and influencer culture have changed nightlife and made it difficult for people to let loose in public. Not that they're going to be embarrassed, but they just don't want

to have it, like, especially you have some celebrities in Los Angeles, for example. Same thing in New York. And you noted people are digitally exhausted. And from your perspective, talk about this, how social media has changed the hospitality industry. And would we see? this resurgence of private clubs without it. Because I think there is a plus for that with people. You're the only place I let put a sticker on my phone, which I'm like, I'm happy to do it. When you get there for people, then no, they just slap a friggin sticker on your phone. And you don't pick it up. You do not pick it up. Even when you want to just look something up, I don't even do that. Well, that's exactly what we're trying to do. I mean, the sticker is really

just a reminder of this is the time to leave the digital world behind. We don't allow phone calls. We don't know how photos. I wish I could say no texting and Googling and everything. I don't because people are like, well, my child, I need to know if my child at home, which I understand, or, you know, I have an important thing happening at work. I might need to hear from my partner or whatever. But so I think we're one of the few places where it is like, you know, you're forced to talk to people and live and connect. privacy changes human behavior.

The second people feel watched or filmed, they stop being themselves and start performing. And so, you know, conversation changes. Vulnerability disappears and spontaneity disappears. Creativity drops. And that's for everyone, not just say a famous person who doesn't want to get. That's for everyone. We created a place where people can really exhale. The product isn't secrecy.

It's psychological safety. And I think that's also like what people don't. understand. You know, modern life is like so performative. I mean, I don't look at Instagram that much, but it's like, when I look on Instagram, I'm like, why are they filming their avocado toast? Like, I don't care about their avocado toast. People document everything. Well, it is delicious, but go ahead. I mean, but talk about this idea of social media anxiety, and it's sort of, it's changed nightlife. Everybody has their phone up. You know, one of the things I used to do, I mean, I kind of created a club at the Code Conference many years ago. We did.

We had, and it was exclusive yet not. It was the people that got in. were not who you'd think necessarily, right? Sometimes we ding people who you'd imagine we let in. But one of the things I did is I created, as phones became more, in the early days, people weren't using them as much, but as it became clear, I'd put together this amazing program,

like gates and jobs, pay the fuck attention. So I put a jammer in the room. Walt and I put a jammer that jammed signals, and everyone would be like, oh, my phone doesn't mark. I'm like, really? Wow, shitty service. But I actually jammed it on behalf. half of them because I knew they would look at their phones and rather, I mean, I was like, I spent a lot of time getting these two people up on stage. So you need to focus in on what they're

saying kind of stuff. I love that. I should think of doing that. Jammers. I'll help you. I'll help you with the jammers. It's easy. That's a great idea. They're like, oh, it doesn't work. And then you go, oh, Verizon. Oh, they suck. Yeah. So talk about that idea of how it's changed nightlife, especially in L.A. or New York or any of these cities. Well, I mean, I think absolutely. I mean, to your point about celebrities, I mean, they feel it intensely because fame follows them everywhere. And honestly, almost everyone feels some version of this now.

Social media has turned life into performance. And so people don't live anymore. And I think that these spaces, you know, one of the things we're providing, or trying to is like a space where they can live again, and they don't have to be scared of a photo being taken of them. I mean, I joke, like, you know, you want to be able to bring your wife one night and then your girlfriend or boyfriend or whatever the next night,

and nobody can talk about it, nobody can take a photo. I mean, there's no places like that. And I'm not saying it's right to have a boyfriend or a girlfriend if you have a wife or husband. We don't judge on this show, but go ahead. But it's also like, you know, it also pertains to, like, business. And I'll just say this because it was written about extensively. When Ted Sarandos and Steven Spielberg were having this big war in Hollywood,

because Stephen Spielberg was saying, you are not making movies because they're not on big screens, even if they're on big screen for a week. It was a very public war. And their makeup dinner, the first time they actually spoke, it was like in The Hollywood Reporter, it was in The New York Times, they went to dinner at the San Francisco. as they should because they knew that nobody would take photos or talk about it.

Unfortunately, there was a guest of a member who was a publicist who called page six and leaked it to them. And we figured this out and we kicked out the guest. But of course, I'm giving an example where I didn't succeed because that's how I do. But, you know, that was only one time that's happened. There's been like 10,000 other examples of it. So it's also business. Like sometimes people don't want to be seen. And they want to go out.

And they want to go out. So maybe, you know, they're about to sell their business to someone and they don't want people talking about. Everything's so public now. And transactional, as you said. And as you also note, it's not just a business thing, but there is the community aspect to it. And as you said, people don't go to church as much. And fraternal organizations, there used to be the Lions Club, the Elts Club, the Rotary Club. My grandfather belonged to, I think, all of those.

They often built community around acts of service, but it was also social. Talk about the organizing principle of your community. People who can have different reasons for going to these clubs. The organizing principle to us is really human chemistry. It's like trying to create an environment of interesting, socially additive people who value discretion and curiosity and creativity and connection. You know, the community is really organized around a shared desire. for a certain kind of atmosphere

that's less performative, more intimate, more thoughtful, more human. It's not organized around status or profession or any of that stuff. It's really organized around energy and behavior. And I think that's why we succeed and, you know,

are desirable to so many people. So how do you deal with the status obsession with people? Like, I didn't get in here. I'm sure you get a lot of pushback. A lot. Yeah. Yeah, I actually have a line that I cut and paste, like, when people, like, will send me an email or a text. Because what's unfortunate is, like, knowing me doesn't necessarily help.

Like, it has to be, it's a committee of people, and they do, they spend a lot of time on this. So I don't, I never want to be, like, that, like, dictator that overrules the committee's decisions. And I always say, it's really not you. It has more to do with, like, your age. your occupation, all these things, because we have enough of these people that are in your category. And that's really how I answer that. We're curating that emotional tone as much as we're curating membership. Right.

But when you, and the other thing I have with clubs is sometimes I get asked to join, some of them, you've never asked me, which is great, which is fantastic. But a lot of people ask me it, and I'm like, no. And the same thing with rich team owners. They're like, come sit in my box. I'm like, yeah, I don't think so. And they're like, what? And I go, I don't like sports.

I don't want to sit. Well, it's a owner's box. I'm like, I like it even less. Like, I don't even know what you. Like, I don't mind sitting in a stand kind of thing. And so it's really hard to get me to come into a club. And one of the famous ones was like, we'd really like you to have you here. And I was like, I'd really like rather not to go.

I'm going to the hardware store, which is my favorite club. Well, we would obviously love you to be a member. No, I can't too. I feel like members. Have to walk. If somebody wants to be a member, they figure out how to apply. Yeah. And, you know, you have to know a member to be nominated.

No, I get it. I just don't like clubs. I don't, I never have, I'm just not a club. I never go. Right. And you know a lot of members. So I'm like assuming if you really wanted to. I love going there.

And by the way, it's a beautiful experience, I have to say. Thank you. Even though you put stickers on my phone. Me, it's just, I just, I really just enjoy being home or going to the hardware store. But, and that's where my happiness is. And that's where my community is. I know it sounds weird, but I do. I actually go to one in my TV show.

I go to one of my favorite hardware stores. But that's weird sounding when I say it out loud. So populism is on the rise in the world. And here in the United States, the wealth inequality is the widest gap more than three decades. Talk to critics who say private clubs are a way for the rich to wall themselves off from the concerns reality of everyday people. Presumably, they end up going to expensive restaurants if they don't go there, right? That's the other option for people or belong to country clubs. or any number of things, you know, special vacation spots.

So I'm not so sure it's that much of a, like, a ding on private clubs. But talk a little bit about this in this, you know, sort of day and age, just sort of eat the rich thing is happening all over the place and somewhat deservedly in some cases. Yeah, and I would say partially, yes, luxury clubs obviously require financial means. But I think the deeper desire they're responding to is universal. I just can't tell you enough how much people want belonging, trust, intimacy, familiarity, and human connection. Wealth just allows you to execute those things at a very high level. So, you know, there could be clubs that are not as expensive that deliver the same thing.

Part of what my experience is is an elevated experience, so it is going to cost me money, and then I have to charge money in return to deliver that. But like your hardware store, example, if your hardware store wanted to charge $10 a month to come there and have a beer one day a week or something, like, that might be a club that's super cool because it's a club of common interests. I mean, that would be like what I was describing as a niche. My son goes, do you know, the giant food here has a bar in it and my son loves the bar at the giant food? I love that, really? I was like, why do you go there? He goes, I don't know.

I meet people, I don't know. And we all sit around and have a beer. Well, people are walking by with strawberries, and I don't know why I like it, but I do. And I'm like, okay, because I call him, like, where is the giant bar? That was like, giant food? Like, it was, but I see the appeal. Like, if he likes the community aspect, another, my other son is going to church more. Like, and I never took him to church once, and he loves it.

And, of course, that is absolutely free, but he loves the community, I think. And that's what they're, especially younger people are seeking. I was just going to say, like churches are on the, I mean, did you see that article? I think it was in the journal. My son is like that article. It's exactly right. It was really fascinating to me, and it made total sense to me, and it really reminded me of my business. And they're meeting boyfriends and girlfriends or whatever at church.

They're not even religious. I mean, I always say, like, you know, we do all these programming events. We'll have, like, a ceramic painting class. And at first, I would say, like, who wants to learn how to paint ceramics? No one is, I mean, they're not really going for the ceramic painting. They're going to meet other people, to meet friends. friends to meet new people to know. So I think, you know, just back to your thing about the wealthy, it's like historically private

clubs were about status and access. And I think today, they're more about emotional comfort and psychological self-safety. We'll be back in a minute. Support for this show comes from Quince. The changing of the seasons also comes with a changing of your wardrobe. But instead of looking for mismatch items, that just don't quite fit, lean into pieces that feel effortless, comfortable, and still put together. That's where Quince comes in. They have fabrics that feel elevated, fits that are flattering.

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Now available in Canada too. That's QINC.com slash Kara for free shipping and 365 day returns. Modern motherhood has become an unwinnable game. I'm Rabinard's son and I do not believe in treating exhaustion as proof of love. A good mother is not a depleted one. An ambitious mother who wants to be someone outside of mom is no less obsessed with her kids. This month on Project Swagger, we are defining motherhood on our own terms in a special series, Motherhood, the remix. In the first episode out now, why balance is a myth and how I started trusting myself over the noise. Listen or watch now at Project Swagger. This week on Networth and Chill, we're diving into another edition of Am I the asshole, finance edition. And trust me, these money dilemmas will have you question

everything. I'm breaking down real stories from real people who are navigating financial situations that range from mildly awkward to absolutely unhinged. And I'm giving you my unfiltered take on who's in the right and who needs a serious reality check. Because let's be real, when it comes to mixing relationships and finances, someone's always asking if they're the asshole. Learn how to set boundaries, protect your wealth, and avoid becoming the villain in your own financial story. Listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube.com slash you're rich BFF. Let's take a step back and talk about your career. As I said, you come, you didn't come from the private club world, as you mentioned. You began as a bellman at the Franklin Hotel in New York in

1993. I actually started in the mailroom of the Washington Post, so I feel that journey. And you worked your way through all the departments, including housekeeping, room service, front desk, reception. Did you have an entrepreneurial vision guiding you through those early jobs? Honestly, like, so much of my life and career has been luck. I mean, even the fact that I'm in private clubs right now. I wish I could have said, like, I knew AI was coming and I knew social media was coming and I knew how important these clubs were going to be. It's just, I'm lucky. I was always very dyslexic growing up. I never thought I'd own a hotel or hotels or private clubs. And so I just got really lucky. This guy, Bernard Goldberg, who was my mentor,

just taught me everything I knew. And he was a pioneer in the boutique hotel industry in the 90s. really just him and Ian Schraker. Was there a thing he said to you that stuck with it? Mine was Walt Mossberg in writing, and he said, you know, always parachute in with your cleats on. That's what it stays with me every step of my career. That's so great. I'm trying to think, I don't think there was any one thing, but he really taught me how to look for value.

So if you look at my career, everything I did, when I bought the Sunset Tower, you know, no one believes this. They couldn't give the Sunset Tower away. It was called the Argyle Hotel. It was a dump. I remember. They kept on lowering the price, and I bought it for like $18 million. And that's a lot of money.

But when you think about it, to buy a property like that, and he said, always find value where no one else can. Speaking of which in 2013, you purchased the San Vicente in in West Hollywood, and at the time, it was run down, clothing, optional, men-only motel, the community news site described as the Sinbin. nobody wanted to invest in you in the San Vicente. What was the pitch? It was so hard.

Well, first of all, even as a gay man, it was hard for me to go there because it was like, it was also very druggy. And it was just this weird, crazy place that were having sex out in the open. Nothing wrong with that. But it was very hard to get like a buttoned up investor or banker to, because I didn't own it yet. I was just in escrow. So I couldn't get investors. In fact, this is a very funny story. I went to like 52 lenders, and they all said no, because they'd go there and they'd be really kind of like, ugh.

Because no one has a vision. No one can see. And so my husband said to me, you know what? I'm going to show you how, like, we get a movie made. Invite your banker, invite his wife. And we're going to invite some movie stars to dinner, and you're going to get that loan. And he was right. It happened.

So that's, I had to kind of like. It's fine who your husband is. My husband is a man named John Goldman, whose grandfather was Sam Goldwyn, and he ran Paramount Pictures for 13 years. He was vice chairman. He's also a producer. He produces many shows and movies. And he's a brilliant person in the industry and obviously very connected. And he knows how to get movies made, so it's not unsimilar.

But how did you get people to, like, the sin bin, did you say, now with 100% less naked druggery? It was really hard. I would try to, I would try to, you know, there were moments in the day, like, especially early in the morning when they usually weren't out, although sometimes they would still be coming off of one of their, like, benders. So I would try to do the tours at like 8 in the morning or 9 in the morning. It was really hard. It was really hard. But even more than just like seeing the people there, the place was such, it was like a rundown motel. Now it's this incredibly glamorous, beautiful place that you feel like it's been there forever and will be there forever.

Like what happens in Palm Springs. Palm Springs had all these Yankee hotels and now they're beautiful. The gays came in and gayed them up. They're fantastic. But what was the pitch that didn't work for investors? What did, what finally did when you were bringing them in? Well, I mean, essentially what happened was I had to put together. It really was tough.

I couldn't get investors. I had to really cobble investments together, like $50,000 here. And then that loan that I got was a construction loan that we used celebrities to get us. And then right before I opened is when I found my, current investor, which is this company, Ohana. And there's a guy named Franco Famularo, who works at Ohana, who's very smart. And he had been speaking to me actually about the Sunset Tower.

And he said, what's going on with that private club? And I said, oh, I had to cobble together. I'm about to open. He said, well, can I see it? And he came and saw it. And he said, I'd like to take out all your investors. They'd only been in it in the investment for like 18 months. months, he said, I'll give them like a 60% return, which is great for an 18-month investment

to make 60% return. I've never, you know, you're lucky if you make 8% a year. And I'd like to take them all out. And he did. And then he also helped me grow because, you know, O'Hanna was able, when I found the Jane Hotel to help finance that. Right. So now you and your partner, this is O'Hana real estate investors.

you're looking to sell a stake in the company to fund global expansion. So how do you think about that? Because obviously, expansion is always the thing to do. You have Jane, San Vicente Bungalos you've got, and Jane is the San Vicente bungalows? Well, it's no longer the Jane. It's San Vicente West Village. Right, okay. But you have these two East and West Coast investments and these things, but you want to expand globally. Talk about how you think about that. Because with doing these things, it's always at risk, obviously. risk. I'm not trying to build hundreds of clubs. I think luxury brands often die when growth

or go public. Itself becomes a strategy or go public. What makes these environments work is, you know, the culture and the atmosphere and trust. And so it's fragile. I mean, I can't do like a cut and paste and just copy these. And I'm really trying to build institutions, not trends. So I can only do a few of these. I mean, you know, if I did two or three more in the next seven years, I'd say that's a lot. And as I say, it's like I don't want these to be hot. I want places to feel like they've been there forever and will be there forever. Are you considering certain cities like Washington or Seattle? I don't know. I haven't considered Washington, but I think actually Washington would be interesting. Well, they have the Ned and then that stupid Trump one. I almost bought a very expensive membership

there, which is, I think it's about $100,000. I just was like, this is an investment in irritating people. And to sit there in the dynamic wave at Scott Bessent every five minutes. or David Sacks, like, hey, hey, girl, what up? It's hilarious. You know, I was friendly with Scott Besson. He was very lefty. Let's remind Trump of that. He was quite a lefty.

But what would you think? What's the ideal kind of city you're looking for when you're not? And the obvious ones are Los Angeles and New York and maybe San Francisco, right? Presumably. Yeah. You know, for me, right now, I'm more focused on this transaction and finding a new partner than I haven't really been, because I just opened Santa Monica and I just opened West Village. I haven't really been Uber focused on where the next club is. I have these fantasies

of doing one in Paris. I love, me and my husband, like, you know, we take French lessons. We love we're francophiles. And so a lot of it also depends on the actual physical space that I see. Like, so much of it, people think I'm this, like, perfect, like, corporate person, but I really have no, none of that in me. And so much of this is like, I'm almost like an artist. Like I have to see the place. And then I kind of am like, I think we should turn this into a club. Like I never am like, okay, I want to open in Washington, D.C.

So I start like, you know, spending months in D.C. looking at spaces. It's just these things kind of like hit me. Yeah, I can't think of one space you'd find interesting here. I have to tell you. Well, yeah. I mean, I don't like the Ned. I'll be honest with you. Really?

I've been there. No, it's very thirsty. It seems to be doing well. It's doing fine. I get why people go to it. Actually, you know what? It's beautiful. They're going to call and yell at me, but I don't care.

It's beautiful. It's really interesting. It's just very performative. It's trying so... When I'm in your places, I feel like it's exactly the way... It's like hotels. Sometimes hotels are really performative. And I find...

I know they did it for the way it looked, not because it was someone had a heart. It doesn't have heart. I don't know what else to say. That's a big mistake. Every location has to have its own soul. It has its own thing, right? And that's why I originally liked some of those Soho houses

because they thought they had heart. Like they had some, then they become sort of cookie cutters in a lot of ways. But, you know, I was there, and I ran into a lot of people, and my wife and I were like, we've got to get out of here. We never, you know what I mean? Like, I just couldn't imagine wanting to spend any time. But people like it, because Washington's really performative,

so it works just fine. I want to go to the one that Don Jr.'s, running. That's the one I want to get into. Anyway, every episode we get a question from an outside expert. Here's yours. Hey, Jeff, congratulations on all your success. This is Chip Conley, fellow hospitality entrepreneur, Routique Hotelier, Modern Elder of Airbnb, and the founder of MIA, the Modern Elder Academy, the World's First Midlife Wisdom School. I have learned along the way that scale and soul sometimes are at odds with each other. You want to grow revenues, and yet you want to keep exclusivity. How are you as a social?

social alchemist, a mixologist of people, going to scale your business in such a way that it still has the exclusivity and the beautiful soul that it's always had when you're going to be all over the world. I wish you all the best on your journey. Anyway, great question from Chip. That is a great question. I think scale and soul absolutely are at odds of each other. And most hospitality brands lose their soul because growth becomes a strategy instead of the consequence. The way you protect soul is through restraint, curation, and standards. We're very intentional about not expanding too quickly. Culture is fragile.

I don't think exclusivity comes from price alone. It comes from emotional consistency. And members have to feel the same trust and intimacy and discretion and atmosphere. And so I think staying focused on that is the way you can scale systems, but you can't scale taste. And back to my Eremes, I'm obsessed with Eremes. Eremes is valuable because they protected the standards, not because they maximized distribution.

And I really respect that. And so I don't want, you know, again, I just don't, I'd rather have a few truly exceptional clubs with Seoul than hundreds that feel efficient but emotionally empty. But does that make a problem if there'd be too many private clubs and the market becoming oversaturated. That was one thing I worried about as a media entrepreneur. Everyone copied me, the stuff I did, the code, which was very – I could have done it worldwide, right?

And I didn't because I just wanted it to be good the way it was. And whenever I expanded, I was always regretful some of the time. Some of the time it worked. But I was always wary of expansion very much so because, you know, you can't just stamp it out and make it good. And also from a business perspective, then it got problematic because everyone was trying to hire my reporters or they were trying to copy it, and then ultimately there is a saturation problem, especially among sponsors or in your case investors.

Well, I think, I mean, it depends. I think most cities are still very underserved when it comes to real community and gathering spaces. I mean, our friend, Britt Morgan Sachs, is opening in Jacksonville, Florida, and I think that's really cool. I think we're going to see a lot more of that. That said, I do think there are too many clubs

being created as social scenes or real estate products instead of being created as communities. And that's the mistake that we're seeing. And I think we're going to see those places fail. Yeah. It's like the tequila brand of the week, right? Or perfume brand or whatever that everyone must have. And they're all, they're trying to create buzz and far, they can create, it's easy to create buzz. I mean, anybody can create buzz.

But to create that emotional attachment and long-term loyalty is what's difficult. And so that, I think, is what they have to be focused on. Yeah, absolutely. We'll be back in a minute. Does Chinese President Xi Jinping see Trump as a partner or an opportunity? So President Xi comes to this meeting with quite a lot of confidence. They recognize that President Trump is dangerous, potentially. He's unpredictable, but I think they also believe that they can manipulate him.

I'm John Feiner. And I'm Jake Sullivan. And we're the hosts of The Long Game, a weekly national security podcast. This week, former U.S. Deputy Secretary of State, Kurt Campbell, joins us to discuss the Trump Xi Summit in Beijing. The episode's out now. Search for and follow The Long Game wherever you get your podcasts. So let's talk about the broader hospitality industry, because that's also part of it, because you are providing some level of hospitality. And you don't just own private clubs, you also own hotels. And when you started out in the hotel business in 1990s, the landscape was very different. Boutique hotels were on the rise and competed with big chains like Marriott and Hilton. And then vacation rentals like Airbnb and VRBO took off and they're operating under a totally different economic model. How do you think of your competition? Because, you know, right now there was a great story. And I agree with this is that they knocked Airbnb out in New York and now hotel rooms are just more expensive. It didn't make it a better.

seen in any way or less, and I'm almost like bring back the Airbnb because, you know, it hurts, you know, I understand it was being abused, but it didn't mean hotels rose to the occasion. How do you look at your, the economic models of hotels versus Airbnbs versus other ways of hospitality? Well, it, I mean, listen, as a hospitality person, I actually appreciated that they don't allow Airbnbs in New York because they really hurt us. And the thing is, you know, Airbnb has all these things that they can do that hotels can't do. Whether you're a union or a non-union hotel, you know, it's very expensive to run a hotel. And so an Airbnb can deliver something much cheaper and would really be putting a lot of people out of work.

I wish L.A., quite frankly, would do that. But hospitality used to be much more transactional, you know, great food, beautiful design, good service. Those things still matter enormously. people are the way to succeed in hospitality is to emotionally connect. And again, it's like back to this whole idea of the product having a soul. That is to me how it's different now and how that's my strategy. You know, hospitality historically has really, it's all, you know, you talk about Four Seasons or you talk Hilton, all these products, they're all commodity.

their rooms are just commodities. And so my job is to do the opposite of that and I just deliver white boxes that you can get everywhere. Everywhere. But President Trump's tariffs have led to higher operating costs. That's another thing for hotels. Last week, a federal trade court ruled against Trump's new 10% global tariffs, which he imposed after his previous terror strategy was struck down by the Supreme Court.

Has that affected you on the hotel with workers? Where is the real push and shove right now in the, hotel business. And again, you have higher-end hotels, but it's the same thing everywhere, I think, especially because employment is back to pre-pandemic levels, but the staffing shortages, high turnover, the administration's obviously heavy-handed immigration enforcement, has left decline in international visitors and a tightening of the labor market. And so your business depend on maintaining high standards and flawless service. So talk about those economic wins that you have to face to retain good workers, the same time keep costs down,

in order to make money? What do you think the most important things right now in the hospitality industry for you are? It's really hard. It's never been this hard. COVID really also changed my industry because people don't want to be, they don't want to actually,

you know, they want to work from home, which you can't do in hospitality. Hospitality is really an emotional labor. People stay when they feel respected, empowered, and proud of the environment, and that is part of something meaningful. So I feel like we still have that. We spend a huge amount of time thinking about culture internally, not just to members, but for staff.

And guests feel that immediately when the staff culture is very healthy like ours. But it's very, very hard to do. It's very hard to find good manner. I mean, we have some of the greatest people. I mean, Gabby is a great example of this. She's just amazing. But, you know, I had to really think outside. everybody was like, you're crazy.

Why are you hiring this former magazine editor, like, to lead up your membership? You know, she doesn't understand hospitality. She understands it better than anybody. I mean, she's also a brilliant, brilliant woman and can adapt to anything. But, you know, it's just getting harder. And I've been forced to think outside the box with people like Gabby. Demetri is another example of that. I mean, even though he's worked for me for 22 years, everybody was like,

No one wants that old school matriety. I love a matriety. What are you talking about? That's the best thing. Well, now we do because we've, you know, we realize that the old world ways are so exciting and thrilling. But at the time, you know, great hospitality people like Chip Conley are artists in their own way and they're creating atmosphere and comfort and, you know, emotional tone. Explain who Dimitri and Gabby are. So, Dmitri is the matri.

at the Tower Bar. He's this old school. He's from Macedonia. He bows. He just loves his job. He is literally the definition of hospitality. And Gabby has become as well. Gabby's the head of membership, global membership. She oversees all three clubs. So she's really with me curating who and this committee, who we're going after. I mean, Gabby will wake up one day and say, we don't have enough people in Broadway, in the theater, you know, in New York. Let's find some. And let's find some. Let's contact some producers, directors, whatever it is, and get that community. It needs to be more well-rounded. This is like one area. You know, that's what a great magazine editor does, by the way, just so you know.

Well, that's why I kind of knew she was going to be so amazing, because really that's what She is editing a magazine, a real-life magazine. What about travelers when you think about, like, is that been affected with the terror of people coming here? So I'm really lucky. I mean, honestly, my only, I have two hotels. I have the Sunset Tower, and I have this little hotel 850, which is so sweet.

And they're both so unique that, and there's nobody truly competing with either of them. I mean, for example, and to me, this is a trick in business. It's like the Sunset Tower is singular. It's this art deco Hollywood hotel. Okay, yes, if you want old Hollywood, perhaps you could go to the chateau, or perhaps you could go to the Beverly Hills Hotel, those are also two very different things.

But if you want old Hollywood and you want it to be chic and you don't want it to be a rip-off and you don't want it to, then we're the only game in town. So I feel like we're lucky that we're so singular in that respect. So you have people, you don't think,

you have just one-of-a-kind. You're in your own lane, so it's not that. I think so, but I also would never do, like the London hotel is for sale in L.A. And they keep on trying to get me to buy it. I would never buy it. It's on San Vicente and Sunset. It's a great location.

But nobody can make that special. Nobody can give that place a soul. You'd have to tear it down. Yeah, I agree with you. I absolutely agree. I've stayed at every hotel in Los Angeles. I'm a hotel whore. I go from one to the X and quietly.

It's the thing I do spend money on. It doesn't have to be expensive. spending money on experiences, see? And you're not a rich person. I don't always, it's not always a fancy hotel. It's really weird. There was one in Venice that I love, that clothes, that I love that. Oh, yeah, the little one?

The little one. I love that place, too. That was a wonderful hotel. I love that hotel so much. So I have one last question. You've worked in hospitality long enough to have seen lots of trends come and go, and you've said that it's easy to make something that's hot, but longevity in your business isn't easy.

I can imagine it is. So what is your long? term vision for sustaining a hospitality business. Does it outlive you or is it just Jeff was here and made this and then? I mean, I hope it outlives me. That's a great question. I've never been asked that. I mean, I've seen a lot of trends come and go in hospitality. Longivity is much harder than relevance for a moment. You know, my long-term vision is not to build the hottest places again, but to build, you know, places that have weight to them. That really, that's what I'd like to be remembered for.

I want the clubs and the hotels to feel timeless rather than trendy. And that affects every single decision, you know, where we grow the design, the membership, the music, the lighting, press exposure, how much attention we seek publicly. Trendy spaces optimize for excitement and enduring spaces. like us, optimize for emotional attachment. Yeah. Can I ask you a final question? I'll answer first.

What was your favorite? I love hotels, and I have so many good memories from hotels. What was your favorite hotel? Mine remains Deachan's Big Sur Inn, although there's some beautiful hotels in Big Sur. Oh, I love Dichens. And there's beautiful hotels nearby, and they're all gorgeous, Ventana and the rest, they're gorgeous. Deachan's Big Sur in, because I'm so happy when I'm there. That's a very maximum.

That's a very magical place and a great example of a place that has a soul that they have respected and enhanced rather than ruined. Because so many of these places could get bought by some asshole who's rich. That was always my worry. I know. And it happens. There was a place in the middle of nowhere in a town called Garzone that the chef Francis Melman, Uruguay. That I went to. That was, I would say, one of the most special.

all hotels I've ever been to it. And he would, the chef would cook over an open flame. There was like, each room had its own personality. It was just like really, it wasn't fancy. There was no, and it was in this like weird little town in the middle of nowhere. It was really cool. It was just a very, I connected to that place very profoundly. And also the food was delicious and you'd look at the stars at night. and it was just the really pretty pool, and it was a very cool place. Yeah, it's a moment.

That's what hotels are there. It's a moment. We're creating feelings, and so it's hard to do. So, you know, it's like Declans is great at that because, I mean, Declan's like even the smell of the wood, you know, and the... It's such a great place. Someday it won't be there, but I love, I love the fact that someday it won't be there also. Yeah.

It'll just go, it's ephemorality of it is with the beautiful thing about it. Anyway, you're a wonderful. You create beautiful spaces. I really appreciate everything you do, Jeff. I'm not going to join your clubs, but because I'm at the hardware store, but I'm going to come as a guest with my friends, my Brooke and others. And I think what you do is beautiful, actually. I know everyone like goes, oh, private clubs, but I'm like, no, no, it's something else that's happening here. Everybody should have a space of quietude. I appreciate that. And I agree. And it's funny, when I started it, I was nervous about, like, is this elitist thing? And it really is not. It's a community thing. And I love that you see that. And I'm very proud of it. Yeah, my grandfather had a place like that. It was called The Dugout. And he went there and played Pinochle every day.

And it was his hotel. And he played cards with his buddies, and they smoked cigars. And it was of space. And it was, I would always have to go get them. And I always used to think, oh, you're a wonderful place. I wouldn't go there, but it was wonderful. Anyway, that's what you do. That's how I feel every time I go to one of your places.

Anyway, if I joined a club, it would be yours. How's that? Thank you. I really appreciate that. Thank you so much. Thank you, thank you. Today's show was produced by Christian Castro O'Salle, Michelle Alloy, Catherine Millsopp, Megan Bernie, and Kalyn Lynch.

Nishat Kourwa is Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts. Special thanks to Bradley Sylvester and Julia Sharp Levine. Our engineers are Fernando Aruda and Rick Kwan, and our theme music is by Trackademics. If you're already following the show, congratulations. You're a member of a very exclusive club. If not, you're on the wait list. Come meet me at the hardware store.

go wherever you listen to podcast, search for On with Caro Swisher, and hit follow. Thanks for listening to On With Caro Swisher from Podium Media, New York Magazine, the Vox Media Podcast Network, and us. We'll be back on Monday with more.