On with Kara Swisher - Seth Meyers on Parenting, Podcasting & Late Night

Episode Date: October 24, 2024

Has late-night TV passed its peak? Ticket sales for live comedy shows are booming and there’s no shortage of streaming stand-up specials, but the same is hardly true for late-night television. Is it the business model or the divisive nature of political comedy that’s driving viewership down? Either way, hosting a late-night show remains one of the most coveted jobs in comedy, and in this interview, Kara talks to one of the best. Seth Meyers, SNL veteran, host of Late Night with Seth Meyers on NBC, and the host of too many podcasts to name, joins the show to talk about the future of late-night; what he’s learned in 10 years of hosting; the utter lack of diversity in the industry; and what a second Trump presidency could mean for comedians.  Kara and Seth also talk about his new stand-up special “Dad Man Walking,” which premieres on HBO and Max this weekend; how the comic folds his personal life and parenting stories into his acts and what his family thinks of it; why there are so many stand-up specials today; and which streaming platform does it best. Plus, Kara asks Seths about his “manic” content creation and his endeavors into podcasting. “Dad Man Walking” is available on HBO and Max this Saturday October 26, 2024. Questions? Comments? Email us at [e-mail] or find Kara on Threads/Instagram @karaswisher Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hi, everyone, from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. This is On with Kara Swisher, and I'm Kara Swisher. My guest today is SNL veteran and late-night host Seth Meyers. Meyers is the host of NBC's Late Night with Seth Meyers, a seat he's held for 10 years now. During his tenure on Saturday Night Live, Meyers starred alongside a range of talent like Tina Fey, Amy Poehler, Maya Rudolph, Rachel Dratch, Bill Hader, Fred Armisen, Kenan Thompson, and Kristen Wiig. Not only did Myers appear on the show for 13 seasons, but he was also head writer for nine seasons. He has received over 30 Emmy nominations over his career. He's a bestselling author, and he's the executive producer of a portfolio of comedy programs.

He's also a really nice guy, actually. I've gotten to know him over the past couple of years. Beyond TV, Seth also continues to do stand up. In 2019, he did a Netflix special called Lobby Baby, and now he has a new special called Dad Man Walking that premieres on HBO on Max this Saturday, October 26. Seth also hosts two podcasts, of course, inevitably drops his late night show in pod form and formerly hosted the short-lived Strike Force 5 pod during the Hollywood strikes last summer with a range of other late night talk show hosts. Our expert question comes from another late night icon, also turned podcaster, Sam Bee. I have plenty to talk about with Seth,

the future of late night, his venture into podcasting, and of course, his latest special. So let's get to it. Hi, Seth, and welcome. Thanks for being on On. It's so wonderful to be on On. Thank you. I know. We've seen each's so wonderful to be on On. Thank you. I know. We've seen each other a bunch of times this year. We have. We did a book festival, and people are still buzzing about it.

We did. Why is that? That was something. We had something going on there. Well, it's very interesting. I was supposed to interview you, and it will come as no surprise to your listeners that you just kept trying to turn the tables. I did. I did. Anyway, because one of the things I did is I met your kids there and your wife. And so I feel like I had a little bit of insight into Dad Man Walking. It's your new stand-up special. It's on HBO and Max this weekend. It's kind of a follow-up or sibling, if you will, to the 2019 stand-up special Lobby Baby. I think that's a good way of putting it. Yeah, I think sibling.

They're both about parenting and life. And Lobby Baby is about your son who was born in a lobby. And you have a great bit about how they met the president and their differences. But let's just quickly play a clip from Dad Man Walking so people can get a sense of it. It's great anytime you're a parent and your kid says something funny. It's so much better if you're a comedian, because the minute he said it, I couldn't wait to get out on stage and tell it to you. Because that's the thing. The most important thing to me is that my kids are happy, but I also love when they're material. To put it in a simpler way, I want them to be content, but I also want them to be content. So I see what you did here. I saw what you did there.

A little bit of wordplay. A little wordplay. Joy-seeing wordplay, yeah. Talk about why you sort of moved in this direction, because my second son, who you met, the really tall one, calls me a sharent. Oh, that's a very, I like that. It's not a compliment. It's not a compliment. No, of course not.

Yeah. And I do worry about talking about them, but there are frequent characters on my podcast. He's called Legs. Clara, my daughter, is called the Golden Child, etc. When your kids get a little older and watch your comedy specials, how do you think they're going to react to it? Well, first of all, I'm very cognizant of the fact that, you know, by the time they hit 12 or 13, they will have permission to say, hey, I'm off limits, FYI. have permission to say, hey, I'm off limits, FYI. And I think they will be able to tell that it is a loving portrayal. And I try very hard to make sure that I'm the dumbest person in my special

when I talk about my family, which they would, by the way, all sign off on that assessment. So feckless dad is what you're going. Feckless dad, I think is a good way to put it. And, you know, my lobby baby loves being lobby baby. And I feel like the older one, Ash, will sometimes be in the park and people come over and say, which one's lobby baby? And Ash will say, he's lobby baby. I'm hospital baby. And I don't have the heart to tell him that that's not that novel or interesting. But they do like being i think part of who i think they love knowing i talk about them right and they recently came to the show uh just i forget oh they came because we had a couple of new york knicks on and so the boys

wanted to come and meet the knicks and they're never at the show this is your your my talk show yeah talk show yeah and so they came and they heard me warm up the crowd. And that story that's in the special about them meeting President Biden, I tell in the warm up. And they were so tickled to know that I was sort of telling a story about them to strangers, especially one where, you know, it's about me being delighted in watching how they act. So, you know, look, about me being delighted in watching how they act. So, you know, look, I'm sure there's something coming, but, you know, I don't quite know how to be a comedian father and

not have that. Yeah, it's interesting because my son who does not like when I mention the other one doesn't care. And he sometimes is mad when I don't mention him. Right. Right. Like, why'd you leave me out? Well, you screamed at me when i mentioned something and your frat found out about it and this and that um but is there a line where you don't use you put yourself as as i said a feckless dad and that's kind of a trope you know it's of sitcom 100 there's always a feckless dad and a smarter mother and that's what's happening here and sharper kids but is there a line you don't use for your material of course but i think that you know again you know the version that's on hbo has been you know i've done this hour so many times and you sort of find out by trying and for me the line is never about you know pushing the bounds of good taste it's just you know sometimes i'll tell a story that is you know

critical of something my wife did. And I can sense when the audience... Your wife's mean, apparently. My wife can be mean. She would also sign off on this. But again, you know, like there's a lot of work that goes into the special to, you know, having this undergirding that here are the things I do that justify my wife's meanness. And to just say she's mean without showing the work. You know, there were times, by the way, there were, you know, I ran the hour a few times and maybe didn't have them undergirding and it left a bad taste in my mouth. So it's always just trying to find the balance. Yeah. One of the lines you had really hit with me, as you know, I have four

kids, you have three. Parenting is constantly suppressing yourself. Your true self, yeah. Your true self. Talk a little bit about that. Well, the clockwork orange sweater thing, I literally did two nights ago. This is a thing where you don't want to do anything. You don't want to hit your kid. You don't want to yell at them. But you take out the sweater in an aggressive manner.

You pull a sweater off as fast as you can. And then the collar catches and pulls one eyebrow way up. And you clockwork orange your child into seeing what they've done to you. It's you know, I think it's just that suppressing your true self, which is you. If some if anyone else in your world behave the way your kids would, there would be a way you'd react. That is now not acceptable or effective with kids. And so you just, it's almost like learning a foreign language late in life, where, again, you're saying, I don't care for the fact that you dumped your oatmeal on the floor. And that is as crazy to you as conjugating irregular Italian verbs. I don't care for that.

I don't care for that. Speaking of family, it's kind of in the election right now. J.D. Vance obsessed with family in a really troubling way. This idea of having family. How do you look at that? Why that's become sort of a campaign issue right now? I don't know. It's so shocking to me because I, of course, know a great many more liberal people than conservative people. And I know not any of them to care less about their families.

And it's so strange how they're able to, I don't know, just look you flat in the eye and take the position that they have a better sense of what it means to be a part of a family or to take care of a family than the other side does. I mean, you know, again, they're bad faith actors and this is... Yeah, he seems to have a real... It's interesting. He talks about children. He talks about having children. He and I got in a beef a while ago when he just had two children and I had four. And he's like, liberals don't believe in the future. They don't believe in families. And I said, well, since I have double the children, I believe in it twice as much, which he didn't welcome. He didn't respond to that.

If anything, I do think, you know, obviously I celebrate anybody's choice to have kids or not have kids. But when I didn't have kids, I thought, oh, people with a lot of kids are crazy. And now that I have three, I'm sort of like, if we started earlier, I don't know if I would have stopped having kids. Yeah. You know, like I. You could still have more children. I know. But it's really, I mean, there's another, there's another vote.

There's another vote. Oh, no more kids. Your wife said. Think of your wife. You know, all comics mind their lives, obviously. But you said your wife doesn't listen to your, to your act. That's not true. She, I should say, and nor should she,

like she doesn't watch late night every night, but there's never been an hour I've been working on that she hasn't seen like four or five times. Now with that said, like I'm doing a residency at the Beacon Theater once a month. But like she doesn't come to that, nor should she. But, you know, when I do fundraisers, she'll come to those shows.

And she's an incredibly good sounding board for my material. You know, I get asked a lot, does she have veto power over the jokes? And of course, but that's not the important part. Like, I'm glad she watches because she almost always, even if she's the butt of a joke, will say, you know, this is actually a funnier example of what you're trying to say here. So it's a really nice partnership. And again, you know, she, I was a comedian when we met. So it's not like she's not understanding what you are. She's she likes this gig. So your kids are under 10. They're too young for social media. But you mentioned in Dad Man Walking that you and your wife, Alexi, don't allow them to have a lot of screen time. I talk about this a lot. For example,

I just had Dr. Becky on. I've talked to Dr. Murthy, who's the Surgeon General, who's talking about that. Do you think about that right now? Because one of your kids is getting closer to that. Yeah. Look, I will not surprise you to know it's been a robust conversation at our school and the phone policy has changed. And this is something, you know, we're constantly thinking about. And, you know, we're lucky we're obviously in a group of like-minded parents who see it as a threat. as a threat. We all appreciate that the future is your kids are going to be using phones the way we used, you know, computers and the way that my parents use the printing press. But, you know, it's just smart, I think, to get ahead of it even, you know, before your kids are ready for it. So what rules do you have in place for them now?

So the one time that they watch screens, which I would, is basically me conceding. And I'm not even sure if, I think Alexi would prefer that it wasn't the full, but like we take a train, me and the boys take a train once a week. And it's like, that's your two hours.

Like, and I'm just like, what do you want me to load up? Here are your headphones. Enjoy. And, but it's great. And then,

you know, the other, other than that, like if it's not bad weather, like they're not watching stuff. Like we just try to, the other thing about being like phones are so bad. Like I, you know, went to a public school, I came home, I immediately turned on TV for like four hours and it was, you know, I saw a terrible content. I saw more commercials than I think you see on social media. Like I was just constantly getting blasted. I don't think it had that much effect. I think it has a lot less effect than people think.

But obsession with screens certainly does. It's a different creature. It is different, right? It's a different, it's obsessive. And it doesn't turn off ever. It never stops. It's endless. And I guess that thing wasn't like the TV wasn't,

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So I want to actually get into the business of these stand-up specials that you are doing. HBO had long been the home for stand-up. Now, there's an incredible number of specials out there on the streamers, especially on Netflix, which has sort of seized the crown. Talk about how it's changed over the years for you and who has the advantage now, the performer or the distributor. Now, your last special, for people who don't know, was on Netflix. A new one's on HBO. Talk about your experience there. Maybe stack rank the streamers. Well, so I got into this a little bit later. So I don't think I came in with a huge sense of what it was. And Robbie Praugh, who is in charge of comedy at Netflix, was actually really integral in me doing Lobby Baby.

I, in my head, didn't think I was ready to do a special or necessarily want to do one. And he had seen me do my hour a few times and he sort of leaned on me and gave me the confidence to do Lobby Baby. My experience with Netflix was great. It came out in November of 19. And then, you know, I would have maybe started touring about six months later, but that was the pandemic. So I never really found out like what the touring bounce was of doing starting to do stand up right after a Netflix special came out. And I've certainly heard from, you know, friends and colleagues that that is a that is a real thing. And, you know, this time around, I would only say, you know, for me, it does seem as though HBO has feels more curated. Obviously, part of it is they're doing less. I think that there's always a risk of getting a little lost in the Netflix shuffle. I say that having had nothing but a positive experience. And the other thing for me, which is, again, different than most people, I've worked for the same company for almost 25 years. This is NBC. Yeah. So anytime I can work, anytime I can work with like a different person, it's just exciting. Yeah. So having done Netflix, it was just the

appeal for me was doing just dating around. Yeah, dating around. And, and, you know, Nina Rosenstein over at HBO has a great reputation. And, you know, in this time and you know nina rosenstein over at hbo has a great reputation and and you know in this time you know she was sort of the one who courted me and i like being courted you do kara i do like what did she do just you know you know i did was doing my show um you know before i started doing my residency the beacon i was doing the city winery which is you know a little 300 seater and you know she came there to check it out and so as far as ranking the screen but you know i know hulu's getting Winery, which is, you know, a little 300-seater. And, you know, she came there to check it out. And so as far as ranking the screen, but, you know, I know Hulu is getting in the business, which is just good for all of us. And, you know, I believe, I hope I'm not speaking out of turn. I think Bill Burr is maybe doing one over there.

And, you know, Jim Gaffigan and Nate Bargetti doing stuff on Amazon I think is good for everybody. You know, certainly if you're talking about volume, Netflix definitely has the crown. Certainly, if you're talking about volume, Netflix definitely has the crown. But I think for all stand-ups everywhere, it's great when different streamers want to get into it. Have you thought about doing it yourself? I will admit, no. I had people who said exactly the way you said it. And I just like the idea of the HBO logo.

Yeah. Why? Just because like HBO meant something to me. And like I also feel like we grew up in an era where like it was like this me. I like I like this company, which is I know crazy now because companies don't like you. But I don't like static and HBO thing. but uh that like static and hbo thing and uh and just the idea of like i mean i'm i'm pretty i'm almost certain the first you know uh hour-long comedy special i saw was likely on hbo yeah um and so you know i've i've reached the age where it's kind of fun to like um do things that are meaningful to me and maybe who knows maybe not the the smartest move financially. But owning your own stuff is not important to you necessarily because they own this now.

Oh, man. I mean, why don't we do these podcasts before I make my deals? I own everything. No kidding. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm in some discussions right now, and every time I go meet with someone, I'm like, what do I need you for?

Explain to me. Explain to me why I need you. I have a very different attitude. But you do not. You like having the HBO logo. Well, I mean, I should say, like, still the nicest thing about stand-up is, you know, taking it on the road is as lucrative as doing a special. So it is nice to have that ownership and you know uh kira i will say and you know with the podcast i'm doing right now like we do own those yeah and it's been it's

been fun to do that independently and i realize the sort of value of it when you realize when you appreciate one like both cutting out the middleman and then realizing how little the middleman does anything for you like what do i need to yeah um speaking of that taking the road ticket sales for live comedy shows are booming from 2022 to 23 totals and it's a little post-pandemic total sales went up almost 40 they've gone up 70 since 2018 that's pre-pandemic. You used to do stand-up tours so you could get a show. Oh, 100%. I think the 80s and the 90s, right, the model was the Roseanne model. Right. You do enough stand-up and you do a lot of stand-up in LA, probably even less touring

in the hopes that, you know, a development executive would see you. And, you know, one, barely any sitcoms anymore. Right. So it would be a sort of fool's errand to aim for that. And in general, yeah. I mean, you are generating. I mean, again, I don't think I could tour. Even if I was a full time touring comic, I certainly would not have the sort of booming ticket sales as the people at the top of the game.

But they are, you know, they're absolutely being rewarded for their talents and their fan bases who want to keep coming out and seeing them. And, you know, I also think it's an arduous life. Right. But you have a residency at the Beacon with John Oliver. That's the dream. Talk about that. It's every month. One Sunday a month. And it, John was very kind during the writer's strike. He had some Beacon shows booked and he invited me to join him for three nights in August of 23 see each other. And now we see each other once a month. And we there's a night it just feels I mean, again, I'm never relaxed when I'm about to do an hour of stand up. But it is nice when you know the audience is also getting John. You sort of feel like a burden of like, no matter how bad it goes, John's incredibly consistent and incredibly good. Yeah, you're like Celine Dion with Taylor Swift there. Exactly. And also just like a Sunday home game in New York City, you know,

because, you know, one of the things about touring, which to be honest, I mostly tour to get an hour ready to film. Like, I don't want to be away from my family that much. But if I know I'm filming for HBO, there's I will go out one weekend a month and try to do four shows in a weekend just for the reps. And now that this Dead Man Walking is out, I mostly, my plan is just to do The Beacon for the near future and start working on a new hour. Right, for doing it there. It's a really interesting way to do that. It is the best. I don't know.

Have you ever, have you ever been there? Have you ever been to The Beacon? I love The Beacon, yeah. It's a really interesting way to do that. It is the best. Have you ever been there? I love the Beacon, yeah. I mean, it's the biggest intimate theater I've ever been in. Yeah, I think it's almost like you have a Broadway show. I mean, Mike Birbiglia kind of does that with his shows. Yeah, I mean, I think Birbiglia deserves so much credit for building this other model, which is, it is very much stand-up comedy and yet it's also show theater right it maybe a show is better than theater but it does feel like a show um whereas i feel like you can see some stand-ups you're like oh my god he's a great stand-up whereas burbiglia does the thing no he's creating and then he produced alex edelman too which is the same thing and there's

no it's by the, no lack of jokes. Same amount of jokes you'd see in a stand-up set. But to have that arc and that resolution is a very cool thing. I want to talk a little bit also, your other business, Late Night. You have broadcast roots, obviously. You've been in Lightnet for 10 years. You joined SNL. As you said, you've worked for NBC for a long time in 2001. And for the last decade, you've hosted Late Night with Seth Meyers. Talk a little bit about that being in Late Night,

because Late Night's always been competitive. Hosting a late night show was once the highly coveted gig. That was the top of the heap. But viewership and ad revenue, way down. You've had to cut your house. Van Fallon recently cut to Jimmy Fallon four nights a week. Some late night shows have disappeared altogether. It's expensive production. Younger generations aren't watching it the way they used to watch it. Or they're watching it in different ways, that's for sure. Talk about the business of late night right now.

Because that used to be the thing to get to. 100%. I will say it was still for me the thing to get to. And now that I'm here, I have no interest in leaving. Creatively, it's such a wonderful home to be able to do four shows a week where you ultimately are building it from the ground up every day. Thrilling. I can't imagine replacing it with anything else that would be more exhilarating. As for the business side, everything you said is very true. And I don't feel like we're being lied to when the network tells us

side, everything you said is very true. And I don't feel like we're being lied to when the network tells us that, you know, ad revenue is down. I think for us, we are hopeful by the fact that, you know, certainly fewer people are watching us than watch late night with Conan O'Brien. But of course, Conan O'Brien didn't have 15 million YouTube viewers a week. Right. Right. By the way, I think he would have if there was YouTube. But so we have these 15 million YouTube viewers a week. Right, right. By the way, I think he would have if there was YouTube. So we have these 15 million eyeballs and everybody, because I do think it would benefit us all, everybody at NBC is, I think, trying to figure out what's the way to monetize this and have there be a future of late. Now, obviously, if they can't do that, I don't think the future is particularly bright.

Now, obviously, if they can't do that, I don't think the future is particularly bright. But I am hopeful that they're, you know, smart people who are working hard to try to crack that problem. How do you think they need to win back audiences, particularly young audiences? Obviously, that's always the focus for advertisers. Because my kids watch everything. They watch all of John Oliver, just not at once and not at the time he wants it to be watched. I mean, again, I don't know what the demographics are of our YouTube viewers, but my assumption is that's where the younger eyeballs are. I mean, the very fact that people used to watch these shows, myself included, at 1237 because, I mean, there were no other – it wasn't like I only watched Conan because there was no other options.

But I was watching Conan aware of the fact that there were no other options. Right. And, you know, I'm never up when my show actually airs. But if I was, I don't know if I would, you know, flip on network television as it was airing, knowing that I could catch it later. Yeah, your show also streams on Peacock. You also have a podcast version of it. You're on YouTube. it later. Yeah, your show also streams on Peacock. You also have a podcast version of it. You're on YouTube. You joked at this year's upfront that Peacock continues to prove that the easy way to make a billion dollars is to spend eight. It's a fantastic joke. Yeah, yeah, it is. Did they love

it when you said it? They did love it. They really did love it. Yeah. Actually, Peacock's doing okay. I mean, yeah, they're doing all right. But do you do when you're making these things? Do you think about where it's going? Like, oh, this is a TikTok moment. Oh, this is social media. This is YouTube. I haven't only because, well, look, when we started our show in 2014, the conventional wisdom for what worked online with these late night shows was celebrity driven, music driven, short. And then we did the thing we wanted to do, which is a closer look, which is 10 to 15 minutes. Now, we did that not thinking there was any future for it online.

With that said, that's what is our biggest hit. No close second. And so that's 15 minutes three times a week. Viewership is probably 10 million views a week. And that's the other thing is weirdly, because again, now we have a younger generation who have the patience for podcasts. I think the YouTube videos they watch are an hour or two hours. So for us, almost 15 minutes is now the new TikTok video for a generation of kids who like to engage with longer form stuff. Right.

Now, you also have recurring segments, which actually lends itself to that. You have A Closer Look, Ya Burnt, Seth Reiters, Amber Says What with Amber Ruffin. The one that really stands out to me is Day Drinking, which is exactly what it sounds like. You take a guest out drinking for a day. Mostly you get drunk, I think it looks like, from the ones I watch. Some others did. Yeah, they did. Some others did.

You're right up there. Julie Louis-Dreyfus did not get drunk. No, no. But you've taken your parents. You have Ina Garten, Rihanna, Lizzo, Dua Lipa, who you nearly killed, Kristen Stewart. By the way, you look good as a lesbian. Thank you. I always kind of knew it might be in there. Yes, you really do.

You have that fetching quality, that lesbian quality. You recently brought Julia Louis-Dreyfus day drinking. Let's hear what she had to say about it. Guys, this show is a terrible idea. This show is the worst idea you've ever done in your life. Don't. I'm telling you, man, you are going to get so sick. Oh, this man, this is a terrible show, guys.

Have you been drinking during the break? It's the stupidest show I've ever done. Guys, have you been drinking during the break? It's the stupidest show I've ever done. So she's whispering at the end there, so Lizard, she might have heard it, but I think she said, this is the stupidest show I've done in my life. But she looked like she was having a really good time. She did have a very good time. It ended up with her tucking you in for a nap on a dice, a dice, on a, on a soft foam dice. On a bar floor.

On a bar floor. Talk about how you came up with this segment. Just, I'm just curious. Again, it's so fun to talk about how you come up with these things because it's never as smart as the idea turned out to be. So the first one I did was with my brother and we were just trying to find

out, figure out something to do with my brother on the show. And the first day drinking was a little bit more like... This is Josh. My brother Josh. Which you have a podcast with, by the way. We do, family trips. But it felt almost like an Anthony Bourdain type,

we're going to travel around the bars of Brooklyn. It wasn't about binge drinking. It was about the way you properly day drink. And then weirdly, we realized, oh, the fun is to stay in one location, come up with dumb games, drink stupid drinks and just get drunk on camera. Now we should know to every listener here who's doubting the wisdom of this. We only do it a couple of times a year because it's a terrible look. And obviously, you know, I always say like carpool karaoke is a great bit. And nobody's ever like, buddy, you got to stop singing in cars.

But, you know, this is. And the other problem is post Rihanna, everyone wants to do it. Yeah. And so you it's so I mean, our talent department's like, could you maybe. I mean, it's like I'm like. Can you live or take it i'm like a boxer who clearly has cte and they're like can you do one more fight for us champ so i was worried about you yeah i mean i i i the other important thing i barely drink now between them yeah i've

really cut back because uh because you go for it i go for it i mean i will say i did go to a midwestern school in the binge drinking i said you said that during one thing i went to a i was in a frat yeah i mean i've drunk you can't believe some of these people have i've uh i've drunk under the table who was the best drinker rihanna rihanna yeah and i should know this is you know this is pre-motherhood rihanna i think she's probably uh not day drinking anymore down like the best of us yeah yeah um i want to you mentioned your brother Josh. Let's talk about podcasting. You have named test of four of them if we include your late night pod. You also did Strike Force 5, a gaggle of late night host. You co-host a show with your brother, Josh, about family trips. You

bring in celebrities and talk about their family trips. You just launched a new show with the Lonely Island guys. Talk about podcasting. Do you look at it differently? Are you surprised by how many comics have moved to it? In fact, it's become the most lucrative

part of their repertoire. Jason Bateman talked about this. I was obviously way behind the curve. And when the boom started, I remember my agents coming and saying,

would you want to do a podcast? And I remember thinking, I don't want to. First of all, I feel like they're done, right? Like this, and again, like, you know, Cone is doing it, SmartList is doing it. I don't want to interview other people. I interview people on my show. And I don't want to try to, like, chase a thing other people are doing better. And then, you know, one of the realities was, again, I was always looking for something to do with my brother.

And when the writer's strike happened happened I had all this free time and it's it's possible to do a podcast while you also have a late night show it's really hard to start one while you have a late night show and so I was just glad like sort of those uh during that like um bummer of of whatever it was four months we managed to get a couple on their feet. And you have 77 of those family trips, I think. Yeah, we're doing good. And I will say the nice thing about it. And I know this is like one of your friends, Scott Galloway's talking points that like men don't have friends. But like, it's amazing how like my brother and I, who I would say is my closest friend, we like talk two minutes a week. And then my wife would be like, what's he up to?

I'm like, I have no idea. I don't even know what he said. And so now I get to spend, you know, an hour a week with my brother. It's so great. Yeah. And then the Lonely Island guys who are three of my closest friends. Yeah, this is Andy Sandberg, Akiva Schaffer, and Jorma Takoni. It's a comedy trio, The Lonely Island.

You wrote back with them at SNL and the four of you tell the story behind making all the shorts. Every one of your podcasts is kind of stunty. You know what I mean? How'd you come up with this idea? That was, and again, part of the stunty nature is not wanting to just be redundant to the market.

These, you know, it was like, I realized there were, again, behind the curve, all behind the curve Meyers. But I was realizing, oh, there's this sort of, you know, recap podcasts. You know, there were the Office Girls or Always Sunny. And I basically just reached out to the Lonely Island guys and said, you guys should do one of these because. People are interested in how you make things. People are interested in how you make things. People are interested in how you make stuff. And then they were kind enough to say, oh, we've been trying to figure out a podcast. That's a great idea.

Would you host it for us? And so mostly for me, and again, it's talking to three guys I love. And then it's fun. I like talking about that era of my life being with those creative people because it's not just the shorts. It bleeds over to our time at SNL and that wonderful cast and that group of writers. And it's a process show. And I think for, you know, I don't think it's for everybody, but I think for young people, I think for people who live through it, I think it's really fun to remember. And I think for young people who just like talking about comedy, I think it's a really helpful tool.

What do you think about what happened with Smart List? Were you surprised? Are you like, fuck? I mean, I'm mostly just very impressed. It is, you know, it's also sometimes you just have to step back and just tip your cap to the perfect alchemy of that group of three guys uh you know they have a natural friendship and they they slide into it's like you would cast a show about three guys and uh and you know vocally i mean that's one of the things my brother and i are up against identical voices yeah uh whereas those guys you know they just uh they just fall into their role so i mean

you know and you know i'm friends with with with Dax Shepard as well. And who has a show for people who don't know. Yeah. Armchair expert and you a very successful show. And you sort of first hear about it and you think to yourself, what, how? And then you listen to it and you're like, oh, yeah, he's just a great broadcaster. And you just realize. And it's so funny how, you know, the broadcasting i think obviously has changed but at the end of the day you just want to uh you know whether it's watching

or listening you just want to be with people you trust and like you should do one with your wife i would like to do one with my wife you should i i think she's very dry she's so dry she's so dry very i was like i need a fucking drink of water after talking to her she's very funny though give her time i never feel insecure and i was like what does need a fucking drink of water after talking to her. She's very funny, though. Give her time. I never feel insecure. And I was like, what does she think of me? Oh, isn't that good?

I don't know. I imagine what it's like to live with her. Yeah, I can imagine. We'll be back in a minute. Thank you. vendor concentration can feel like they're destroying your cloud services. It's time for a new paradigm, one that not only provides you with more control over where and how you run your application and data workloads, but also one that provides the operational efficiency and reliability at scale via automation. Pioneered by several nines, Sovereign DBaaS is a new way forward for corporations with multiple business requirements who need to deploy their workloads in mixed environments. It's grounded in end-user independence. It gives IT ops teams the ability to deploy and orchestrate databases

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So I want to finish up by talking about politics. Yeah. Go back to the material. Some critics say the left-leaning bent on late-night shows is part of why the format has declined in relevance. For example, you, Stephen Colbert, Jimmy Kimmel, and Jon Stewart are all openly liberal, progressive, might turn off half the country. Talk about being accessible to all Americans because right now Fox's late-night show, Gutfeld, has the highest-rated quarter ever. He regularly beats a lot of broadcast late night shows. Yeah, but that's like, that's slanted too, right?

Well, yes, it is. But he's the only one. He's the sort of right wing unicorn. Sure. But like you, we're all just authentically being who ourselves is. I'm assuming he's saying what he believes and we're saying what we believe. But talk about that, because you've got a very split population right now. And they have found someone like Gutfeld. Obviously, his book, King of Lightnate is his big book.

Yeah. Great. Yeah. I mean, I look, I'm happy there's choices for an audience, but I kind of look, I think that our show actually works better because people tune in and are seeing a person be authentic. I would argue that if we were doing a talk show from, let's say, the mid 90s where it was just desk pieces and no point of view, I think those would be the shows that would be off the air right now. Off the air. Yeah. So, yes. I mean, I think that you could also say I I think the, I will not deny, obviously, right, there's a decline in linear ratings. Yeah, I'm hitting a tiny nerve here, I feel like. No, no, you're not hitting a nerve. I

just think that, look, there's a lot of, I mean, again, I think the reason ratings are down is because there's more options for everybody, right? Like everybody says like, oh, Johnny Carson worked because. He was the only one. Right, but also he was the only one, there no netflix there's no streaming and there was no cable and you know so uh i'm not saying he wasn't the best that ever did it he definitely was but um you know part of it is environment i just don't believe that if i wasn't talking about i first of all i just want to do a show where i don't talk about politics right there's other choices for people who yeah yeah you talk about a lot of things but politics is important and you do it a lot on the show. It's the biggest part by far. Yeah. In your lobby baby special 2019, you had Netflix include a button that allowed viewers

who might be turned off by political comedy to skip over the section. Let's play a clip from that section. I'll say is I feel like the jokes are the only good part about living through the Trump era. The only good part. I mean, living through the Trump era without any jokes would be like getting a prostate exam and not wanting the results. Let me tell you what we found. No, no, that's not what I'm here for. I'm gonna be here tomorrow, get you back up in there, though.

It's also very strange for me because based on the kind of show I do, and because it's a show about politics, people have been coming up to me so much over the last two years and saying, oh my God, this Trump presidency must be so good for you. How good is this Trump presidency for you? The same is true for the news business. How do you deal with that? Is this Trump presidency, the potential erosion of democracy being good for late night? Look, I'm very I don't think it'll be. I you know, we went into, you know, when Trump joined the race in 2015, it was like, ha ha,

so funny, like I was as guilty as anybody else thinking like this is what a delight. Right. You know, and then, you know, we were doing a lot of close looks and it was a lot about him and a lot of Hillary. And like we had no expectation he was going to win. But then we were ready for the moment because we had been doing, you know, we'd learned how to like turn over content fast. And but I did not I did not enjoy those four years. And I certainly don't want to do it again. And I do worry as well that, like, audiences will just, like, be so bummed out.

Yeah. So, yeah. I mean, you know, look, we're going to, again, the only way we know how to react to it is authentically. But I do not in any way, shape, or form think to myself, like, oh, I'm not rubbing my hands together being like, oh, maybe we'll get lucky and we'll get another four years. Even with Arnold Palmer. I mean, look, we're doing this on a Monday, so I'm pretty sure Arnold Palmer will show up in the show tonight. You can use Cocktober Surprise if you'd like. Oh, that's good.

That's very nice. Yeah, anytime. I don't think you can say that. You can. They just beep us. Nobody's watching. Well, then it's not funny. But do you look at your business light of a win by Harrisris versus trump you don't look forward to that no i i and i hope you believe me i really

just care for like the country right we'll be i think we can we'll find comedy wherever this breaks yeah um and uh i'm not worried about that and so my concerns for the outcome of this election are, you know. Much more serious. Much more serious. Well, and dangerous. Speaking of which, we had an expert to call on a question for you just on this topic. Let's listen. Hi, I'm Samantha Bee, former host of Full Frontal with Samantha Bee, current host of the Daily Beast podcast and Choice Words with Samantha Bee. Samantha Bee, current host of the Daily Beast podcast and Choice Words with Samantha Bee. The big question I would ask Seth is this. What's your over-under on the continued existence of late-night television in its current form, given A, the horrendous contraction of the industry in general, and B, the looming specter of, God forbid, a second Trump presidency

and the vengeance that he is promising. Seth, he does not like you. And you know, under Putin, the comedy shows were among the first to go. Cheerful. Thank you, Seth. I adore you. And I adore you, Kara, as well. So. That's so nice to hear from Samantha. Yeah, she's great. So what's the over-under? You already talked about the contraction in the industry, but this is true. He has promised retribution.

He doesn't like Seth Meyers. He doesn't like Al Kine. He doesn't like Jon Stewart. He doesn't like and aims at them a little bit. Yeah. I mean, he does kind of have a lot of other things he's supposed to get to first. Right.

You know. But she's right. Comedy under Putin, they used to have a very thriving and part of the culture there. Yeah. Well, I don't, there's no real way to prepare for that one way or the other. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Do you think about holding back or do you? No. No. What would be your tone if he wins? I guess it's about how he wins. Right. Right?

I mean, to some degree, you have to, you know, the country is going to tell us what they want on Election Day. And we're going to respond to that. election day and we're going to respond to that. You know, is it, you know, it could be based on how big a victory it is for either candidate where you get a sense of where you're at. I think what we found from our show, and again, I'm not being coy, but like we react, our show's the best when we react to the moment as it's happening, as opposed to try to game out, you know, two plus weeks. You know, we're going to write it this way. If this happens, we're going to write it this way. If that happens. So what are you preparing for for the election? How are you? We're not real. I mean, we just you're just

going to go. We just watch what happens and we write fast, you know, and it's part of what makes this job so fun is you don't you can't get ahead of it. If you are committed to the idea of we're going to write a show about the last 24 hours, like that's where our show has the most value. You know, we appreciate that, you know, a closer look, we'll get 2 million views in the first two, sorry, the first 24 hours. And then, you know, none after because it's like a newspaper. So there's no, and again, it's not like we have, it's not like we're putting journalists out in the field to do exit polling.

We're just gonna react to what we see. I have a couple more questions. Speaking of Sam Bee, lack of diversity in late nights still is an issue. The shows are very male and very white. Full frontal was Sam Bee, for example. Lily Soons, A Little Late, Amber Ruffin Show, along with Chelsea Handler's Pogans have been canceled. You were executive little late. Amber Ruffin's show, along with Chelsea Handler's Pogans, have been canceled.

You were executive producer of the Amber Ruffin show. I was. Very talented comic. She's amazing. And she's working with Roy Wood and Michael Ian Black. At CNN. I'm going to be on that show. Oh, great.

But hers got canceled after three seasons. What happened? Why has that happened still? Because there's been efforts. Yes. A lot of people say there hasn't been effort. I'm like, yes, there have. And lots of them.

There, you know, I think with Amber, look, it was Peacock. It was early Peacock. It was launched during the pandemic. There were a lot of things working against it. I think it might have a better chance now that Peacock's doing better. But again, yeah, it was a really good show.

You know, critics liked it and it was nominated for awards. And so for us, it was a it was a really good show you know critics liked it and it was nominated for awards and so for us it was frustrating that it didn't take off but it also you know you just kind of go back to the drawing board you know we're still working with amber trying to figure out what's the best use of her talents obviously we're thrilled to have her at our show she's an integral part of what we're doing here along with her partner, Jenny Hagel, and the two of them do jokes that can't tell together. But, yeah, I mean, ultimately, like, we, you know, when we realized we were lucky enough to have a show like this and when we had somebody as talented as Amber, we are trying to do everything we can to get voices like hers out there. But it is frustrating. Two more questions.

One is about AI. I kind of have to. Yeah, okay, great. I bet it'll be unrewarding, but I'm glad you're asking. So assume Trump does not kill you. On another podcast, Strike Force 5, that you and other late-night hosts started during the Hollywood strikes,

you did help support writers and crews that were out of work. That's over now, but the issues remain, including AI, which was a big issue in it. Do you have any thoughts about AI in comedy? Do you use it? Do you think about it? No, I don't use it. I'm sure it's a tool. I'm sure people in comedy will start using it. I think it will probably at some point. Look look i'm not i you know i'm not so ignorant as to think it won't replace bad

comedy writing you know i'm sure at some point it'll be able to do that um and then i ultimately i think it's the responsibility of good comedy writers to stay ahead of it you know look if it if it's better they're going to use it yeah know, and there's nothing we can do about it. Right. And are you using it? I haven't used anything, no. I just had Robert Downey Jr. on the show about the show McNeil, which you should see, which is about just that, the idea of it getting better and better as we get worse and worse. But you don't use it at all. I don't use it at all.

You don't use it at all. I don't even – I'm going to tell you something. What? I don't even know how I would go about using it, Kara. I can help you. It's really easy. It's like someone who told me I don't use the internet. What's a web browser?

I know, I get it. But like, am I better off for using the internet? I don't know. I think so. I want somebody to teach me how to like forge my own iron. Okay. For the end times. Yeah.

For the end times. Seeds. I want somebody to tell me. For the end times. Seeds. I want somebody to tell me how to save seeds. So last question. I also left out a comic book you did with Bill Hader. You're very manic about all different things of creation. I like doing stuff, yeah. Yeah, you do.

It's important to stay relevant, I think, or try different things. Stretch different muscles. Stretch different muscles. Diversify. Diversify. So if you were starting your comedy career right now, what would you be doing? It's so interesting because I always say, you know, and again, you have, they're resolute and they're, you know, they're full of the same imagination we had. And it's just, they're going to figure out the tools and they're

going to figure out how to do it. And I do believe we're going to see bursts of creativity from every generation. I, you know, it just scares me the idea of like oh wow so you know you got to generate your own material and then if it's a hit now you're on this treadmill of constantly having to feed this beast that you started now of course you know maybe they would be you know I explained to them like what we used to do is move to Chicago and hope to get on stage and they'd be like what the fuck you're talking about like I can do this in my why I leave my, I'm doing this in my basement by myself. And you're like, okay, that all, you know, so what I re I'm, I try very hard to remember that as crazy as it seems to me, like what we did was crazy.

Yeah. And so I'm glad that I know I, when you say like, what would I be doing? I know it wouldn't be what I did 30 years ago. Right. Which was move to Chicago. Literally be like, what would I be doing? I know it wouldn't be what I did 30 years ago. Right. Which was move to Chicago. Literally be like, I'm going to hang out. I'll get a job waiting tables and I'll wait every six months there's auditions for Second City. Like, that wasn't a good plan.

Yeah. But it worked out for a lot of people. And, you know, the one thing I hope for the younger generation who, and again, I do think they're making great stuff, right? I see young people do things on TikTok all the time that blow my mind. I hope they're not lonely because so much of the great part of my career was collaboration. And it wasn't always great, but, you know, I got put on an improv troupe with like nine strangers and, you know, three of them were, are still my friends today. And, and that, and again, that is completely comes from a place of

ignorance and maybe they would all tell me, no, it's great. Well, you know, we all, there is a community. But that, that is the part that worries me because so much of what has been good about my life in comedy has been the people I've met and the laughter I've experienced off camera, you know, in a writer's room, you know, at an SNL table read while stuff is bombing. Like those were so informative and instructive. And so I do wish that for the younger generation. Yeah. You know, I was going to ask, what do you miss? And I think you just answered. I do miss that. I mean, it is, you know, look, it's great having your own show and a door you can close.

Like, I love it so much. Like, I'm also somebody who enjoys time by themselves. But, you know, people always say, do you miss SNL? And I'm like, I miss being that age. Like, I don't want to be at SNL now, but I miss that, you know,

being around a group of people where we all sort of felt like the arrow was pointing up and you were surrounded by, you know, I do feel like I knew. I think these people are going to be in charge of comedy for the next 10 years. And I wasn't wrong. Yeah. In fact, you're right.

Yeah. Are you going to be in charge of SNL? No. No. Okay. I don't think Lauren's ever going to leave. And I think when he does, lights out. Yeah, right.

That's true. So your special is out this weekend. It's called Dad Man Walking. I stayed up until 3 a.m. watching it. It was great. Oh, my God. It was really good. It was good.

Well, go check it out on Max or wherever you watch HBO and stuff like that. Seth, as usual, you're incredibly thoughtful, and I really appreciate you being here. Thank you, Cara. This was delightful. Thank you. Substantive you being here. Thank you, Cara. This was delightful. Thank you. Substantive. We tried to do something. That's my thing.

Do you know that substantive is a word that we had to take out of scripts because I can't say it right? Oh, really? Say it. I like always, substantive. I constantly say substantive and they've, like the writers have just, they just sigh. Can you say it with an Italian accent? Substantivo.

Substantive. Okay. No, no, substantive. German? Substantive. Watch the show. You'll know what we're talking about. He will not say it with an African or Pakistani accent.

I will not. Anyway, thank you so much and good luck with it. Thank you. much and good luck withher. Our engineers are Rick Kwan and Fernando Arruda. And our theme music is by Trackademics. If you're already following the show, you can come forge Iron With Me and Seth Meyers in the apocalypse. If not, ask ChatGPT to write your jokes.

Go wherever you listen to podcasts, search for On With Kara Swisher and hit follow. Thanks for listening to On With Kara Swisher from New York Magazine, the Vox Media Podcast Network, and us. We'll be back on Monday with more. easy to harness the power and potential of AI. For all the talk around its revolutionary potential, a lot of AI systems feel like they're designed for specific tasks performed by a select few. Well, Claude, by Anthropic, is AI for everyone. The latest model, Claude 3.5 Sonnet, offers groundbreaking intelligence at an everyday price. Claude's Sonnet can generate code, help with writing, and reason through hard problems

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