On with Kara Swisher - Where’s the Line in Comedy? Monty Python’s Eric Idle Has an Idea

Episode Date: November 21, 2022

Should anything be off-limits in comedy? Kara and Nayeema discuss this question, and the recent Dave Chappelle SNL monologue, before Kara’s interview with our guest today: writer-comedian Eric Idle who is an OG in the craft. When he and his fellow sketch artists launched Monty Python on the BBC in 1969, it was unclear whether anyone would even watch. Now there are generations of Python fans. Today, Idle talks about what made Monty Python unique and how they pushed the line and the social conversation with their unique brand of humor.  Both avid Twitterers, Kara and Idle also discuss their frustrations with Elon Musk (he’s a noted fan of Monty Python, though Idle is not a fan of Musk). And Idle describes how his recent bout with pancreatic cancer has made him a more accepting person.  You can find Kara and Nayeema on Twitter @karaswisher and @nayeema.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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And I'm Neymar Raza. You also have 100% fewer lawsuits, I think. Yes, I think so. Those are coming. I do love Curb Your Enthusiasm, I have to say. I love it, but, you know, it's not a good look for him. Everybody was in bed with Sam Bankman-Fried. Let's not sexualize Sam Bankman-Fried.

It's just not where I want to go on this today. I wasn't. I know, I just realized. I mean, the person who may have been in bed with him was the Alameda CEO, who he reportedly had this on-and-off-again relationship with. Honestly, it's the least sexy sex scandal I've ever heard. Anyway. Okay. Our guest today is legendary writer and comedian Eric Idle. Yes. Cara, tell the people who Eric Idle is. You know, Eric Idle is one of these people who changed my life. Monty Python, greatest sketch comedy troupe of all time and from which

everybody else emerged. And they put together something that really truly lasts the test of time. I ended up watching a lot of it before this interview, and it brought me back, and it also didn't feel irrelevant at all. Before you talk to Eric, we wanted to discuss this broader idea of lines in comedy. It's something that's getting a lot of attention right now in the wake of Dave Chappelle's recent SNL monologue, which has caused some consternation and backlash. I'm sort of in the middle between that. I know that Jonathan Greenblatt, who I've interviewed many times from the ADL, Anti-Defamation League, took issue with some of his comments. But I thought he was, I think he towed the line, I guess. I've had some issues with Chappelle and have written

about it. I think his weird obsession with trans people is both exhausting and also not funny after a while. He gets, he just, I don't mind a joke or two. I don't mind his lesbian jokes and this and that. But at some point you're like, can you move along from this group? And it's not funny anymore. And then it's really more about you than the jokes. But I thought in this case, he was very funny during that monologue. So this SNL monologue kicked off with a disclaimer. He theatrically pulls out a piece of paper and then he reads a statement. Let's hear it. I denounce anti-Semitism in all its forms and I stand with my friends in the Jewish community. And that, Kanye, is how you buy yourself some time.

He then went on to discuss heated topics from Kanye's anti-Semitic remarks, which led to a company founded by Nazis dropping him. And he also spoke about a suspended Brooklyn Nets star, Kyrie Irving, which is one of the few basketball players you and I have heard of. Because he's a jerk, but go ahead.

Yeah, because he tweeted a controversial documentary, and I'm putting air quotes around documentary, and had all kinds of anti-Semitic information. There was also a middle bit about Trump being an honest liar that no one seems to think was controversial, but he started and ended on the other stuff, and he's been called out by a number of people. So did you watch it? I did. I did. Most of it I thought was very funny. That's the problem with Chappelle is, you know, he's obviously, you know, I hate to sound like someone who's like, Kanye's music is great. This guy's an amazing comic.

And he just can't, he indulges himself in wasteful controversy, I think. And I don't mind comics being controversial. That's kind of the point. That's part of the point. It is the point. It is the point. But most of the stuff that's really good is just really good. He's doing something else is happening. At the same time,

he's making great comedy and you can see it when he's about to do it. Well, you can see how he's looking for the reaction too. Yeah. And that to me is a bad sign for anyone. Oh, he's provocative. He's provoking. You know, everyone who writes or does anything and you make videos and I write and stuff like that knows when a line is just too good. You're like, I'm going to put this one in. I often take them out, because I'm like, it's too clever by a half, and it's indulgent in a way that doesn't serve the art, I guess. I think he was

playing with the idea that he might be an anti-Semite, but I don't think he is. The thing where he said this joke where if you're black, then it don't think he is. You know, the thing where he said this joke where if you're black, then it's a gang. If they're Italian, it's a mob. But if they're Jewish, it's a coincidence and you should never speak about it. Yeah, and he's doing a trope there about the supposed power of Jewish people in Hollywood.

Yeah, I'm Italian, my family, but... We part of a mob? We are. If you're a straight girl, it's a girl band. Spice Girls. And if it's a lesbian, it's the Militia Etheridge. It was, I get why people were upset by that. I sure do.

Though I don't think it's even close to the level of a Kanye West or a Kyrie Irving or anything else. I think he's playing with people in a way that's probably not very nice, but. He's towing the line. He's like, he's like, I remember that Catherine Zeta-Jones film where she's like going under the lasers in a black suit?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's doing exactly that. He doesn't look as good as she did when she did it. But, you know, he's trying to dance around. And I don't agree with the points he made. I don't know if he agrees with the points he made. But I think the performance is the exhibition. And the comedy, as I think Jerry Seinfeld said, was well executed, even if the subject matter merited a broader conversation.

But he is a master of the craft. He really is. The storytelling. He really did a wraparound on Kanye. The Trump part in the middle gets the audience back with him when he's just gone too far. I think he's trying to air a theory that, you know, some groups have more power over what we can and can't say than others. I don't agree with that. I think, you know, I'm going to go back to the trans because I think he

went way over the line with trans people in a way that also wasn't funny. It wasn't even slightly funny. And then he talks about himself and how beleaguered and a victim. I mean, then he sounds like Trump. I'm the victim here. And then you're like, shut the fuck up and get off stage. In this case, I think he did a pretty good job. Look, I mean, I'm Muslim. I'm American, but I didn't grow up here. And when I moved back to the country, it was around September 11th.

And at the time, I think we had a family friend who was an actor. And his only gig was like playing a terrorist in films. And if you went to, you know, I go to standup clubs and people are making a lot of jokes about, you know, would you hold the bag of a Muslim guy in an airport who told you you had to go pray or whatever the joke was. And I found it offensive, but I'm also a storyteller. I mean, producer, make films, make videos, write stuff. And I think that even though it offends me, it should be allowed. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, producer, make films, make videos, write stuff. And I think that even though it offends me, it should be allowed. Yeah. Yeah, I do. I think it's just, I think it's cheap.

He did say something about how it's hard to talk about stuff. It shouldn't be this scary to talk about anything. It's making my job incredibly difficult. To be honest with you, I'm getting sick of talking to a crowd like this. I love you to death. And I thank you for your support. And I hope they don't take anything away from me. Whoever they are. That was somewhat funny.

That was somewhat funny. What do you think about the argument he's making? It shouldn't be this scary to talk about anything. It's not that scary to talk about. I think it is hard to talk about. Even in this conversation, you're not saying like, it's funny. It's not like you don't think it's a little bit of a delicate dance in this day and

age to talk about things that are sensitive. I think Dave Chappelle is an enormous platform. So him, no. Yeah. New up and coming comedians. Sure. I don't know. I don't know. I don't. I don't. I think it's overblown. I hear it from a lot of people. I've heard it from major Hollywood moguls who own everything and play the victim. I think there's a lot of people who never got a voice.

And to kick them in the teeth continually that you shouldn't do that is not censorship, is just don't be an asshole. And many times, Chappelle is being an asshole. The thing you're saying about certain groups who've never had a voice, do you think certain groups should be protected in comedy? For example, a trans community, or, you know, I gave the example of Muslims, which you don't think... No, not protected, but not smacked over the head with a two by four a long time. You think that he has a lot of career left in him? Oh yeah. He'll be just fine. Yeah. He'll be just fine. Well, I mean, here to talk to us about

comedy and where the line is these days is Eric Idle. So let's talk about our guest today. He's amazing. Now, speaking of which, someone who says a lot of stuff and they make fun of a lot of people, but somehow it's not cruel. The Brits are just better, Cara. I'm an Anglophile. The Brits are just better. These particular Brits are better, I think. He was pitched to me originally by a friend and you wrote back in all caps, I love him. I do. Which is such a rarity for you to say, Cara. Oh, that's not true. It's not true. Mostly you reserve it for like Dolly Parton. Yes. Taylor Swift. Deserved. People in the Nashville,

Tennessee area. I love a country music singer. Now, of course, Faith Hill and Tim McGraw from 1883. Things like that. But what about Eric Idle? I love Eric Idle.

I like the whole Monty Python group. Eric Idle, Terry Jones, Graham Chapman, Terry Gilliam, John Cleese, obviously. And I've loved them for years. When I was a kid, I watched it at night on my little TV,

my little tiny little TV in my room. And I loved every- You had your own TV in your own room when you were a kid? Yeah, yeah. Wow, Kara, fancy. Anyway, I would watch Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam and Spanish Inquisition and The Cheese Shop was one of my favorite.

And of course I saw Life, Brian and- That's the one about Jesus Christ. Yeah, so- It was very risque. It was one of my favorite. And of course I saw Life of Brian. That's the one about Jesus Christ. Yeah. It was very risque. It was, it was great. It was always be on the bright side of life with him singing that. I just loved every,

they gave me so much pleasure as a group and Eric Idle was one of, you know, they were all great. They were all great. And so he gave me so much pleasure as a comedian. I owe a debt of gratitude as a young woman to him. I think he's going to give you a lot of gratitude as a young woman to him, young girl. I think he's going to give you a lot of pleasure in this interview as well, Cara, because he's now,

he's been also quite obsessed with the topic of death. He's recently survived pancreatic cancer. And I know death is one of the most joyful topics for you to speak about. You love it. It is. I love talking about it. I'm excited to discuss it with him and I'm glad he is doing well and is in good shape right now. What are you excited to get out of this interview besides, you know, trading death notes with Eric? Well, I want to know what he's doing. I don't know about comedy, sort of the state of comedy. These guys were way before Saturday Night Live and everything else. And what does he think about that now? He's quite active on Twitter, very liberal, left about British politics. And I want to know what he thinks is funny. What are you interested in? I know they used to get edited by

BBC a bit for pushing the line. So I'm curious to know where he thinks is funny. What are you interested in? I know they used to get edited by BBC a bit for pushing the line. So I'm curious to know where he thinks that line is. Yeah. And his different experiences working with BBC versus NBC. All right. Okay, get it in there. Maybe I'll ask.

Maybe I won't. We'll see. Oh, come on, Kara. No, be nice. Soon you'll be dead. Until then, be nice. Spam, spam, spam, spam. Eggs and spam.

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It was conceived 50 years ago or more in the late 60s, and it's still a hit. Spamalot's on Broadway. Some of your films on Netflix are some of the most popular. The reunion tours sell out. I have to say, watching it, it stands the test of time in a way that I was surprised. Talk to me about why you think that's the case.

Well, I'm not sure I really know, but I think it shouldn't be. I mean, for comedy to last more than 50 years is actually very, very rare. And we weren't certainly looking back 50 years when we were doing it. So I try and wonder, because one thing we were certain, obviously, would never go to America, that they would never ever get it. So we were completely wrong there. But then when I think about it more, I think it's because it's very silly. It keeps playing with the form. I think it's about television in an odd way because we were the first people to do that sort of comedy on television in color in our country anyway. Right. And skits, really. And it's not satire, but it is satire. It's generic satire. It's about types.

It isn't about particular people. So the references haven't dated. So, for example, it's not like SNL where you say, oh, I remember. He was the president who always fell over. You know, so it is either funny or it isn't. And also the other thing I think is quite strange and unique. It was written by the people who did it and only by them. Right.

There was no writing team. Right. You know, it was just by us, just what we wanted to say. And I think we'd done our Malcolm Gladwell 10,000 hours. We'd done other shows. We'd been writers for other people. We'd been on television. And suddenly the BBC gave us this complete freedom

to do what the heck we wanted. And we didn't have a clue what to do. So we just did it. We made it up and did it. You talk about the types, you know, the wink, wink, nudge, nudge guy, which you're famous for. You've been for a lot of different characters, Robin. So you wrote each of these things,

or you wrote for each other, correct? We wrote them. We didn't cast till after we'd written the shows, so people weren't hanging on to bits because they were in it or they'd written it. And then we tried to give it a sort of theme or we tried to link things together without using tags or punchlines. And I think that's where Gilliam was important. This is Terry Gilliam. Because he provides the show with a sort of Victorian framework in which the whole thing plays out.

And that seems to give it some link and connection, which is entirely spurious. So those were those animations. The foot or people being squashed or eaten by a baby. And that would be entirely his own whimsy. And he'd come up with it at the very last minute. And we wouldn't see it often until we went recording it before a live audience. And that was the other cue. It was a live audience.

So they told us what was funny and what wasn't. And we weren't always right. As opposed to a laugh track, right? Well, as opposed entirely to a laugh track. And sometimes that was surprising to us. Only once did we make a big mistake and we thought, and we did it again the next week, and it still didn't get a laugh. So we don't know, no, no, definitely. What was it?

It was a very silly sketch. It was set in the trenches, and I think I was playing harmonica, and maybe I was talking, somebody said, hey, Sergeant, I can't wait to get back, you know, to obliterate, you know, see the wife, have some pie and chips. You know, I mean, Sergeant, he said, yes, Brigadier. And that's all it was. It was like a class joke. And it takes a while for it to penetrate. But the audience reacted like you did, stunned silence. Right, right.

I mean, to be funny, we find ourselves laughing. We don't think about it. We find ourselves to be laughing. Right, absolutely. If you have to explain the joke, that's the whole thing. You were Oxbridgers, except Terry Gilliam, including you, Terry Jones, Graham Chapman, John Cleese, and Michael Palin. Talk about how you came together as a group because you were just given this show and it became a hit, and especially in the United States. well we we were all at Oxford or

Cambridge and in Cambridge there's a thing called the Footlights Club which I happened to join and by extraordinary coincidence I met John Cleese in January of 1963 and then the same year I met Graham Chapman and then at the Edinburgh Festival I met Terry Jones and then Michael Palin so by the end of like 12 months we'd actually met each other but when we came down from Cambridge almost our first job my first job was writing for David Frost on a show called The Frost Report which which John Cleese starred in so there was that we were writers we were young and then we got our own children's show, Do Not Adjust Your Set, Michael Palin, Terry Jones, and I.

And so we had our own TV show, which was a very big hit at 5.25 for kids. So we couldn't use any filth. It was very good discipline. You know, you just had to be purely funny. And we decided we wouldn't talk down to them. We would just do our funny stuff. And then there was another show called The 1948 Show. And these two shows collided, oddly. And the BBC said, you know, you can have 13 shows on a Sunday night. They were trying to find out if there was an audience on Sunday night

after you saw the Queen on a horse and they'd say goodnight and shut down. So they didn't really mind what we did. They didn't care. They didn't watch. They didn't even read the scripts. They just said, well, get on and do it. You know, that was, we started off in 66 writing for television and being on it in 67 and Python started in 69. And then it just, and it's, it didn't take off in a big way. I mean, nobody really started to watch. And then people occasionally went, they began to really love it. And I think because we messed with the form of it, sometimes we start with 10 minutes of a pirate film to try and persuade them that we're on the wrong channel. So I think messing with them is a very good thing to do.

Now, you said you're not an actor. You talked about different people in the cast and that you don't do character acting, but you call it caricature acting. Can you explain two things you said that I thought were interesting? That and then you said uncomfortable is very good for comedy. We're writer performers. We, you know, so I think we're much more close akin to caricature. It isn't a deeply thought out character that you could live with on for a long time. And I have no idea what the other thing was referring to.

Was there a context? You were filming, I think it was either Life of, no, I don't think it was Life of Brian. I think it was Holy Grail. And it was, you had a hard time with your castles. You couldn't get into castles. And you said it made it better that you had less to work with. And less money. I think that's true. I think the more, I think the fact is the Holy Grail was made for $400,000 was the budget, five weeks filming. And because of that, exactly, because of that,

we couldn't afford horses anyway, although they'd already written the horse sketch at the beginning, the coconuts. So everybody had to have coconuts because we couldn't afford horses anyway, although they'd already written the horse sketch at the beginning, the coconuts. So everybody had to have coconuts because we couldn't afford horses. So I think it forces you to improvise or create something which you might just lazily have not done. Yeah, although I wonder where you got coconuts in Scotland at that time of year, but nonetheless. Well, there was a whole sketch about that, you know. Yeah, yeah. Coconut is tropical. It's tropical, exactly. You parodied everything. I want to do a little sketch about that, you know. Yeah, yeah. It's tropical. It's tropical, exactly.

You parodied everything. I want to do a little lightning round of how you look at them now in these sketches. Let me start with the wink, wink, nudge, nudge guys. You married? Yes. I'm a bachelor myself. Is your wife a goer? Eh?

Know what I mean? Know what I mean? Nudge, nudge. Know what I mean? Say no more. Beg your pardon? Your wife, does goer? Eh? Know what I mean? Know what I mean? Nudge, nudge. Know what I mean? Say no more. Beg your pardon? Your wife, does she go? Eh?

Know what I mean? Know what I mean? Does she go? Eh? She sometimes goes. I bet she does. I bet she does. Say no more.

Is that your most famous character or not? How do you look at him? I would say so because oddly enough, Elvis Presley was a big fan of that sketch and called everybody Squire because of it. But the oddest thing of all is I wrote it for a show. We used to say, well, we would read our sketches out to each other. And if we laughed, we'd put it in the show. And if we didn't laugh, we'd sell it to the two Ronnies. It was a television show, Ronnie Barker, Ronnie Corbett, and very, very popular. So you'd give them your cast-offs.

Yes, it wasn't good enough for us, but it was still pretty funny, you know. Yeah, yeah. But we didn't try that one. I'd already sent that in to the two Ronnies, and they sent it back because if you look at it on the page, it's not funny. There's no jokes in it. Right. Is your wife a girl?

No, what do you mean? No, what do you mean? No, she doesn't know what I mean. Say no more, say no more, say no more. Hello, is she? You know, it's just repetition. Until you do it like that, you know, she'd go. Once you put the caricature in it, it becomes funny.

So once I read it to the rest of the Pythons, they just laughed and said, that's it, you know, straight away. It's fantastic. It works very well today. Ruddles, though, I thought was great. One of the first mockumentaries, if not the first. No, it was before Spinal Tap. And I wrote it for, initially, it was just a little song and a little sequence on a television show I had after Python called Rutland Weekend Television. Rutland

being the tiniest county in England, and having been just put out of existence by the Conservative Party. So the idea being that, you know, they had no money, no budget, and everything was a small, it's the small and the large, which is very good for comedy. It always works, really. And so, you know, there was a little group called the Ruttles running around singing very Beatle-y songs. Out, you're breaking my heart

Out, I'm falling apart Out, out, out, out Ouch, I'm falling apart Ouch, ouch, ouch, ouch When we first met I must admit I fell for you right from the start And so when I went first on Saturday Night Live, I was hosting it, Lorne asked me for a clip from my show and I showed him this and he played it on the show. And they had letters back from the audience to the Ruttles.

And then he said, well, what are you going to do next? I said, well, I'm going to do a documentary on the Ruttles for BBC Two. And he said, well, why don't you do it for me and NBC and you'll have a larger budget. And so that's how it came to be. It's like a combination between Ruttles and weekend television and Night Live, because all the Saturday Night Live people were on. And the idea was, oh, I love Gilda Radner, another amazing. She was a wonderful friend. I mean, we knew her quite well.

Yeah. So let me go through them. Life of Brian, which I think you jokingly, when it was originally, you called it Jesus Christ Lust for Glory, which is my favorite thing ever um but but it was why that why that well the question was um asked me at the opening of holy grail what's our next film and i just ad lib jesus christ lust for glory you know to get rid of the question and when we got back to England this is interesting and we talked about it and we thought well actually nobody's ever done, it's the same as nobody's ever

done comedy about the Beatles either so you like the blank page if you're doing comedy it's fabulous to find a whole blank page, then we decided well actually you can't really mock Jesus because he's saying all very good things you can only mock the followers who misinterpret it. And so as a blessed fever, you are to be stoned to death.

Look, I've had a lovely supper and all I said to my wife was that piece of halibut was good enough for Jehovah. And then we came up with the idea of, really, it's a tragedy because it's a guy mistaken for a messiah. And there was a lot of fuss about it because people didn't really see it, so they didn't really understand it. They just complained, and it was this broad mass of, which made the film in America.

Right. Everybody went to see it. And one character you had in it was Stan Loretta. This is an early transgender character. That exchange between you, I think it was John Cleese, about not having a uterus or a box or whatever. Yes, yes. How are you going to have a baby in a box?

That was the first transgender character I think I ever saw in a popular movie. It was written by John Cleese and Graham Chapman. And I played it, which is a lovely character to play. And it treats, you know, Stan Loretta very nicely in a way. by John Cleese and Graham Chapman and I played it which is a lovely character to play and uh it treats you know Stan Loretta very nicely in a way I mean they they know they go well how are you gonna say why do you want to be a woman I want to have a baby well how are you gonna have a baby I mean most of Peter's gonna keep it in the box you know right right so I think right. So I think if we'd been unpleasant or attacked that character, it would have looked nasty today.

But because it was sympathetic. Right. And I'll say, well, we voted to give him the right to have a baby. So, you know, I thought that was very left-wing. And I would have thought that was largely Graham Chapman, who was a gay man and out at the time, though when we started it was still illegal which is very hard to understand and remember in that it you know from that those times oh I do but it was a wonderful man and a great guy and yeah and would come up with these you know offbeat thoughts which I I

think um balanced the very male group. There was a lot of gay in there. I'm gay, and I saw a lot of gay in there, which is interesting. And then, of course, Mr. Cheeky, which he's stuck with you for years. Always look on the bright side of life as you're sitting on the cross. Talk about that character. Well, he was actually based on our electricians. We talked about that. Anything you want doing, if you want somebody.

And Mr. Cheeky was ridiculously silly. I mean, he's supposed to be crucified. And he says, no, no, they told me I could go free and live on an island. And he said, well, off you go then, off you go. And he said, no, I'm only pulling your leg, really. It's invincible stupidity. And originally the song was not sung by him. I recorded the song.

And then when I got to Tunisia where we were filming, it suddenly occurred to me that it needed the character of Cheeky to sing it and sell it. You know, some things in life are bad. And once I did that, which I recorded in a hotel room in Tunisia on a mattress with a bottle of Muchukha. That's a live track. Oh, wow. Yeah, but it brought the whole song to life and sold it at the end.

Yeah, it's very poignant, too. This is inspired by a Reddit user called The Bold Move. He was curious what the show's social commentary would still be relevant today. I think it is. So he asked you to pick one. You'd rewrite one that's absolute and one that's perfect exactly as it is. Can you think of those? Well, I wrote and directed O2, which is a revival in 2014. And the only thing I felt I should cut was there was a thing in the silly Olympics and it was a,

it was a hundred yards, a hundred meters for the deaf. And he said, only marks get set, go bang. Nobody moves. Bang. Yeah. Nobody moves. Right. Bang.

And I thought, no, this is actually laughing at the infirmity and not with the infirm. So I cut that. Right. I don't know what I, I can't think of what I would, off the cuff, what I would rewrite now, because I don't spend a lot of time thinking about it. Right, right. But when you look back at a lot of comedy, you're like,

I was watching something older, and I was like, oh, no, no, no, no, no. I haven't found one in Monty Python that I found offensive, even by today's standards, which was interesting. And I think because of the balance of the various members, I think Graham was a very prevalent influence in that. I mean, you know, and even if you played gay characters, they were kind of, you know, they weren't mocking being gay. They were saying funny things in a gay character. And I think that possibly the clue is that if you were offending some part of your audience or upsetting them,

that's not what comedy does. It tries to mock things that, you know, should be attacked. Speaking of which, the show was Magic's Reflected the Culture, which was TV back then. What do you think the closest thing is now? Is it Saturday Night Live, which Monty Python predated, or something like Curb Your Enthusiasm? I don't know, because I don't know any other shows. I mean, I don't watch a lot of comedy, I must say, but I don't know any other shows that are written

by a gang of people. I mean, whose line is it anyway, perhaps, is people are making it up who are in it, but it doesn't have the rewrites or the, you know, we were writers and obsessive writers. There's hardly an ad lib in Monty Python. So where would you distribute today, though? Because you can also think TikTok has a lot of comedy on it. Like, it's all distributed and fragmented. I mean, the Nudge Nudge guy would probably be a TikTok star,

influencer, my guess. How do you cut through that noise now? Well, I think the reason it became popular was because it was on PBS and it was on a Sunday night and everybody could get it. Nobody was counting the figures, but everybody could see it for about years after year after year. That's where I watched it. Yeah, and I think that was a remarkable, fortunate thing for us.

And it spread it like a virus you know so i don't know anything about tiktok i'm very ignorant i live in my own little ivory tower yeah uh and i like writing and i like reading i still like making people laugh right you'd be an influencer you'd be an influencer just so you know on tiktok probably i would be if you were if i knew what that meant even yes well you, you could do your characters over and over again. Is that what an influencer does? Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. But you could take any of your characters. Mr. Idol, it's not too late. You could do makeup tutorials. You could do all kinds of things. Oh, gosh, I've always dreamed of getting makeup tutorials.

So I'd love to move you to now today comedy and how you look at it. You see, you don't look at it a lot. After you did British television and the BBC, you did work on sitcoms here in the United States. One was called Nearly Departed, I remember it, where you played a ghost who was in a house. And then Suddenly Susan, which was with Brooke Shields. That wasn't a great experience for you, correct?

I mean, it should have been Suddenly Departed is actually what it was. It was only on for six. I did enjoy doing that a bit, but I'm not good at sitcom because it seems to be a hybrid form of comedy, pure comedy, which is what Python was. We could be anything, anywhere, just to make you laugh. Right, right. And drama, you know, or maybe soap opera.

But it's not my form. Again, I think it's a kind of acting. I'd rather do something sillier or moving along a bit. What I like to do is write a show and do it. It's a very unforgiving format, the sitcom is, in a lot of ways. Yes, but also it's often the same joke. You're repeating the same thing. Here's the same guy coming in the same, hello, darling, I'm back.

There's nothing new about it after a bit, I find. I mean, Brooke was wonderful, but I was only called in for one year, and I was supposed to be rude to her character all the time. That's why they employed me. And then after the first week or so, they put it in front of one of those panels they convene and said, oh, people don't like it when you're rude to her. Because she's Brooke Shields, yeah.

Well, that just destroyed the purpose of being there, you know. Yes, yeah, yeah. So they took it in another direction and you're much more at the mercy of executives in that form. I mean, they came to us once on Nearly Departed and said, wear more green. What? And we said, what?

And they said, wear more green. We said, why? We said, well, we've done some studies and people like people who wear more green. Wow. I know. And I think the thing about comedy is it's disastrous when you want to be liked. Yeah. I think there's a slight difference between American humor, American television and English television, that on the whole, English comedians don't want to be loved or don't put that up front.

Whereas I think it's very important in American terms that they're somehow liked or lovable. Right. Did they edit you a lot at Monty Python? And what did they edit out? They edited us hardly at all until about, they hardly watched it actually, which was good, until about the third series. And they cut one or two things, but only small things by today's standards. Such as? They cut out a sketch, which was a wine tasting sketch.

And the guy said, what do you think of this? And I said, well, it's a burgundy. It's light, dry. It's on the north side of the hill. It's probably a Sauvignon. No, sir, it is Oui Oui. Oh. And then he gave me another.

Ah, now this, this is very much a Sauvignon, proper grape. No, sir, it is Oui Oui. Okay, so no urine jokes. It was completely a urine joke. And I wrote it, I'm afraid to say. And John Cleese cut it. He went with the BBC. And I did a tour with him. And I made him do it every night with me. And it got huge laughs. So I got my own revenge. That's good. Urine jokes are always good. How do you look at cancel culture today? Because now everybody is watched under great scrutiny. You didn't watch, for example,

the Chappelle monologue, for example. Did you follow him? No, I didn't because my wife watches it and she said, oh, you should watch it because it's funny. He's funny, you know, and I said, I will, I will. Well, what do you think of the comedians like Dave Chappelle, for example, is saying he's being subjected to censorship or that he can't say what he wants? He said it this week on SNL in his monologue. Yeah, but where does he say it on SNL? That's right. Yeah, that's a fair price. Well, you're not being that much counseled, are you?

If you were in your room complaining, I'd have a lot more sympathy. Right, so that he doesn't pay the price. He just says he pays the price. It worries me. I didn't like it when, you know, Bill Maher complains about the audience not laughing. They're telling you they don't find it funny. Right. You shouldn't moan about the audience.

There's nothing wrong with the audience if they don't laugh at your jokes. There's something wrong with your joke. And so I'm not terribly sympathetic to that sort of attitude, to be honest. That's well said. Yeah. Is there a comedian that you like? Do you think someone like Chappelle, who I think is brilliant many times, by the way, I just think he is obsessed with trans people in a really creepy way.

Who do you think is doing a great job? I mean, my best friend, you know, was Robin Williams. You know, I haven't really recovered from that. I mean, you know, he was just so wonderful. And you had to know him an awfully long time before he stopped being funny. Tell me about Robin Williams. What an incredible artist he was. Away from the more famous aspects of his life.

If you watched him in stand-up, it was just brilliant. I mean, I knew him very early on. And he was still, I think I just met him just as you know he was doing that mark and mindy and i took him to france and uh he came to stay and we became very good friends and then i'd follow him through san francisco and he'd go to all the clubs now endless clubs and he was always brilliant and but then he would take medication and stop being funny and that was when he cleaned up then he was always funny but he was always very sympathetic he had this great humanity to him which was very kind and generous and uh i learned a lot from him how to treat people public when you're with them so i would be very rude and tell them to f off, you know, but he was always kindly to people, you know,

and I learned a lot from that. And I, you know, I was devastated, obviously, like everybody else was. I mean, it was a shocking moment. Support for this show comes from Grammarly. 88% of the work week is spent communicating, typing, talking, and going back and forth on topics until everyone is on the same page. It's time for a change. It's time for Grammarly. Grammarly's AI ensures your team gets their points across the first time, eliminating misunderstandings and streamlining collaboration. It goes beyond

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I just am curious, why do you like Twitter? And have you had any changes since Elon took over from your perspective? Well, I like Twitter because in the 90s, I started something when I came to America. I discovered how popular Monty Python was. In England, it was over. And it had been over 25 years. But but in America it was not only live it was still on television and people loved it so I started something and I noticed something about the early internet which was the two touch points of on the early internet were the Rolling Stones and Monty Python they were the two

references every or every nerds were referring to. They love it. They do. Leland did too. He did the to all complainers, please stop complaining. It will cost $8. It was a Monty Python reference. And spam was based on a Python sketch, you know.

Right. So I started a thing called Pythonline, and I would answer their questions. And I kind of enjoyed that interaction with people, you know, sometimes. And so when Twitter came along, I kind of enjoyed that interaction with people. You know, sometimes, you know, and so when Twitter came along, I kind of enjoyed that. And you find a small little community and providing you block a lot of people instantly. Yeah, I do that a lot. It was doable.

And so I think it's important to remember that Elon is a Python fan. I mean, you know, I think and also, you know, he's made brilliant cars. The Tesla is a brilliant thing. I think it was very generous to share all that technology with other car firms, the last thing American business should do, because he wanted, you know, to make electric cars common, which is what he has succeeded in doing.

And I think SpaceX is a jolly good thing too. I mean, you know, watching that rocket land on its backside was one of the most extraordinary moments of technology. I think that, you know, and also he legendarily once shut down his Tesla factory while they were making Tesla 3 to play a Python sketch about Woody and Tinny because he wanted to get the correct sound of the car door slamming. So you've been vocal about your feelings for him supporting the use of these, but you've also clapped back at him recently. Talk about that. Yeah, well, I think he's been rather silly.

I think he's been foolish and I think impulsive. And, you know, where's his support group? Who's helping him? Who's saying, don't say that? Because I think once you get too big, it's like a rock star. I call it Louis XIV, you know. Nobody is telling you no.

Nobody is saying, well, that's a really bad idea. Why do that, you know? And I think that's the mistake. And I think one of my tweets recently was like, I said it's like buying a petting zoo and charging the animals. Yes, that is correct. For the blue tick, you know. But he did say he stole the idea of charging it

from the Monty Python's argument clinic. I'd like to have an argument, please. Sir, have you been here before? No, this is my first time. I see. Do you want to have the full argument or were you thinking of taking a course? Well, what would be the cost? Well, yes, it's one pound for a five-minute argument. And I responded to that and said, you know, I say, well, you steal the idea from us and you want to charge us to verify who we are. Right, exactly.

You said so many Elon trolls spouting garbage. It's going to be easy to leave. Ha-ha, I'm going to read now. Ciao, Bella. But you love it, too. I'm the same way, let me just say. And by the way, what did you go read that was better than the drama at Twitter right now? I'm trying to think of what possibly could be as interesting.

I find it very uncomfortable now. I had a lot of people who were nice, and we were always, especially because my daughter's bipolar and very out with it, we would encourage people who are depressed or sad. And Monty Python has a very cheery-uppy quality to it, which attracts a lot of people who are depressed or sad or lonely. And it does a lot of good in that respect. Hank Azaria said he was filming a Holocaust movie, and he came to the conclusion that Monty Python was the opposite of the Holocaust. Wow.

A very interesting quotation. Oh, wow. But he had found reasons to be human again at the end of a day's filming. You know, good things about humanity. What's interesting is one of your fans, Elvis, sort of went downhill, same reasons, brilliant, but went downhill. Elon is sort of doing the same. One of the more interesting things

I thought you put about his free speech arguments, which aren't really, they're a little bit hypocritical in many cases. You've said that, quote, free speech for fascists is like putting diesel in a Tesla, which made me laugh really hard. Well, you know, I grew up in that world. Don't forget, I'm a war baby. Right, right. That's right. And I was born in 1943. So it was very real to us, fascism and what can happen if you let one person take over a country. And so, you know, that still rings very strongly with me in my soul.

And I think, you know, I don't know whether it's kind of narcissism, I think it is, buying that. And I think that to take it over and alienate both the people who are the audience and the people who bring them in by entertaining them or interacting with them is completely, utterly foolish. I would agree with you, Mr. Idol. Simple as that. Why wouldn't you sit in your office and watch for a few months and see what, you know, I mean, but to come say, I'm going to change it all. I'm going to make this happen.

Oh, no, I'm not. I'm going to do that. No, I won't do that. It's like, I don't think you just smoke joints and run a business. I think after the end of the day, it's very good for you when you've been making very good decisions. But during the day. All right. Speaking of smoking joints, the British government. So I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you to explain what's happening in the UK. You're very funny on Twitter about this. First, the Queen died this year, of course. And

the joke, do you even know Britain had a Queen? That's a Monty Python joke. Can you talk a little bit about that? I don't. The reason I can't do that is because I've lived in California for 27 years. So you're no longer British? You're not allowed to be British? Well, I am British in passport, which now means I can't go anywhere on the continent for more than 90 days. That's one of the great advantages of Brexit is they've stopped me going to my house in France. So I hate them intensely. I've always hated conservatives, I'm afraid to say. I'm very prejudiced against them. They're horrible people. And they've made a right mess of it. And they've

gone back into austerity, which is the 12th time they've done it for the last 12 years, I think. So not a fan of Rishi Sunak?ak better than trust better than lettuce head well i mean when you say better than trust i have a friend called jeffrey archer who i had dinner with in london yeah and he told me all the really good gossip but the only trouble was i couldn't recognize any of the names so i try not even to keep up too much with American politics because it was so depressing. And I have to escape to France to get away from the endless news cycle. Do you pay attention to U.S. politics? I stopped because I found myself completely addicted to it.

And it's the same. And it was always like, always hope coming and then a bit of disappointment, the hope and the disappointment. And I thought, this is really anxiety-making. And why people are so much depressed these days is I think there's just too much news. There isn't enough news for breaking news all day. It used to be half an hour on the BBC at nine o'clock, you know. But now, so, and it's also then divided into partisan news, and this this news and fake news. And so I found that life was better without it. And if I go and live in a place, I like to be on the planet,

on the edge of a planet, which gives you a much better grounding and a better grounding for your own inevitable demise. And so, you know, my wife is American, obviously. She follows it and she, you know, votes and, you know, agitates and does all that. And I don't. I'm afraid I find I've only got a little. Is there anything funny in it? Do you find anything funny in it right now, or is it too soon? I mean, yeah. I mean, from a bitter viewpoint, it's hilarious, you know, because, you know, how would you possibly solve gun violence? Well, actually, very easily, but nobody will ever address it because there's no money in it. You can't get elected on it. You know, I mean, it's

very, it's paradoxical and funny, but, you know, you have to be kind of cynical, like I think I am slightly. Much less than most people. But I don't want to be, you know, when I had cancer, I suddenly thought to myself, you've got to stop being anti-people, some people, and pro-some people. Everybody gets cancer. And you can now, if you're going to appeal to people, you should appeal to people who've got the disease, not because they conform to whatever patterns of thought I believe in. And so I think I'm in a grace period of, you know, I'm in remission.

So I have a grace period to not be quite so, you know, correct. You don't need correct. I mean, righteous. I know what it is. I know what to say. I know what to put you down. So for people to know, the survival rate of pancreatic cancer is quite low and it's more deadly for men. Steve Jobs died of it. Tell us about, so how did it hit you, this diagnosis and the recovery? The remission is quite remarkable for you. diagnosis and the recovery, the remission is quite remarkable for you. I have a very good doctor, and that's the reason I'm alive today. My medical practitioner practices preventative medicine. So every year he puts us in, we do blood tests and go through the old scan or two. And I was writing a thing called Death the Musical some years ago.

Explain that. Explain Death the Musical. Spamalot had been a big hit. And you think, well, what are we going to do now? And I tried to do The Life of Brian and John Cleese said no, which was amazing to me. As a musical, you don't want to. Yeah, he's changed a lot too, John Cleese. Yeah. Anyway, he's old. He's old. He's 84. Oh, 83 maybe. Very angry 84, but go ahead. I know, but that's sad, you know. It is.

What have you learned? So I was trying to think, well, all the boomers are going to die. Death is a really fascinating subject. Why don't I try and write the death, the musical? It's exactly the wrong title for a Broadway show, which of course it was because nobody wanted to buy it. Right, right. It hasn't been made. Let me just say the of course, it was because nobody wanted to buy it. Right, right. It hasn't been made.

Let me just say the basic plot, this is from The Guardian, was simple. A man writing death, the musical finds he is dying. Idle asked his doctor for advice. I said, what's the quickest way to get rid of a character? And he said, pancreatic cancer. This is the same doctor who ended up diagnosing you. Well, that's right.

So that's what happened. I mean, he said, I said, perfect. That's perfect. I thank you very much. And then 10 years later, we're actually doing a test. And I say, what's that? And he says, it's pancreatic cancer. Oh, wow. And I laughed because we'd written songs about this guy receiving the news. When he heard that he was dying, Freddie took it very well. Things like that. So what could I do but laugh when it's now on? Right. So are you working on that? Do you think it's going to get made?

No. No, because if you, I mean, you can't get investors for something as silly as that. Why did you choose to share your story? And what's the public reaction been? Well, I didn't, the public reaction was great. And I thought it was after I did The Masked Singer, and I knew they were going to ask me for due publicity because there was due. You sang Love, Love Me Do, right? You sang a Beatles, a Rattles song. I sang a Beatles song and I wrote to Paul to ask him because he owns that one. It isn't a Beatles song. So it's a PMC copyright. And he, you know, he said, yes, you can do it, but just let me know when it airs so I can be sure to miss it. Because I played him in the Rutles, you see.

Right, that's right. That's right. You did a great job, by the way. The upward-looking thing you do really well, that his eye thing. Yes, that's what his wife loved. Linda just loved that. I think I nailed it. So what's the reaction been?

The reaction was extraordinary. It was really great. I mean, so for the people I first talked to, to my doctor and to my publicist, they both cried. And it's been very touching. And then when I came out on Twitter and I was inundated with people who had had relatives or friends and who said thank you and I've had a lot of people just thank me whereas in fact you know I mean I was fortunate enough to be the survivor and it's because I was diagnosed early so I said we must do a charity to encourage people to test early because now we have we can we can they're just getting breakthroughs and also as well as research so I did ally with stand up to Cancer and I started the Bright Side Fund.

You know, it's probably one of the best things I've ever done. Let me ask you a last question. It's a question I ask of Steve Jobs who did die of pancreatic cancer. He was well for a while, then he got sick again. I did, I think, the last big interview of him. And I was in this room and he looked very sick. He was obviously thin and very fragile, but one of the biggest life forces you ever saw right up till the end. And I decided to ask this

question. I'm going to ask it of you. And he gave an amazing answer, let me just say, so don't feel any pressure. But what are you going to do with the rest of your life? Well, I asked my doctor just recently, because I was being tested every six months, how long I had, and he said, well, cancer's gone. You've got maybe 10 years or more, and that was a shock to me. And so that's when I decided to raise money, help and encourage this cancer fund,

and to encourage people, because are we going to beat this thing? You know, I meet more and more survivors of this thing and i think this is the part of humanity that i really love we get better we got people working away quietly doing all this great work and it never hits the television it's always it's all about politics and shouting at each other so i i would say that humanity is an extraordinary species we're're an amazing Homo sapiens species, Homo sapiens sapiens. And our struggle is against the stupidity and folly. But also we are improving. We are capable of improving life as we go.

And life has improved. Absolutely. Eric Idle, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. What a lovely interview. Thanks, Cara. I enjoyed talking thank you so much. I really appreciate it. What a lovely interview. Thanks, Cara. I enjoyed talking to you very much. You know what they say, Cara?

What? You're in or you're out. Oh, my God. Don't do a pee joke. You just... Oui, oui. Don't lose your day job as a producer, let's just say, to go into comedy. Why? You at it.

No, no. 100 B jokes. 100, no. I see why you love Eric Idle. Yeah, just a charmer. Just a lovely guy. Lovely guy. You know, you could turn bitter and he hasn't.

He's had such a great career. He's still very funny. He's delightful and pioneering. I don't know what else, you know. It's been a good run for him. And I'm glad that he's healthy. I pioneering. I don't know what else, you know, it's been a good run for him and I'm glad that he's healthy. I am too. I am too. I was surprised how little attention he pays to comedy currently. Yeah. Well, I mean that he hadn't watched the Dave Chappelle monologue, despite his wife saying it was very funny. I hope someday never to pay

attention to journalism and I'll be sitting in Hawaii, you know, with my coconuts. You're an addict, Kara. Good luck. No, I'm not. No. Good luck. I'm going to Hawaii. I'm getting a set of coconuts and I'm going to run around the island going... Okay. I'll believe it when I see it. All right. We'll see. Anyway, what a great guy. What a great person to have on Thanksgiving. And Jessu, I like a little hope. We're going for hopefulness this time. Yeah. He was very hopeful. He was very hopeful. What did you take away from the conversation? What was the most salient thing for you? I had forgotten how important Monty Python was to me as a young person when I was watching it in the 70s on PBS.

It was great. What did you think? I agree with you. I think his sense of life and his sense of joy throughout that interview was just fantastic. I also really appreciated him getting into the ins and outs of trying to make something. Like as a producer, I really appreciate that conversation of the friction between yourself and a network or yourself and, you know, that editorial tension and the kind of inane network notes that the wear more green. You need to wear green. There's actually a great Twitter handle called at TV network notes. And these are all real notes. Or they claim they're all real notes. Here's one from the History Network. All of these programs you've pitched us today are about the past. I'm really looking for

something about the present. Oh, my God. Oh, Jesus. Yeah. ABC, can we change the color of the girl's backpack? I know. Exactly. It's like, what? You and I, we've been on the receiving end of this. Oh, you and I don't take notes. We don't take notes. Kara Swisher and Naima Raza don't take notes. We get them given to us, but we ignore them completely.

We sometimes take each other's, but that's about it. Not really. Oh, come on, Kara. You would never done the Elon interview if I hadn't told you. That's true. That's a fair point. Speaking of notes, I'm getting a note from the producer saying we should get to the credits. So, Kara, you want to read us out?

Oh, my God. Yes. Today's show was produced by Naeem Araza, Blake Neshek, Kristen Castro-Rossell, Raffaella Seward, and Claire Tai. Our engineers are Fernando Arruda and Rick Kwan. And our theme music is by Trackademics. If you're already following the show, you get a man following you with a pair of coconuts. If not, why don't you like coconuts? Go wherever you listen to podcasts, search for On with Kara Swisher and hit follow. Thanks for listening to On with Kara Swisher from New York Magazine, the Vox Media Podcast Network, and us. We'll be back on Thursday with more.

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