On with Kara Swisher - Why Are You Like This? with Megan Rapinoe

Episode Date: August 27, 2026

Today we’re bringing you an episode of a new podcast called “Why Are You Like This? with Megan Rapinoe” from A Touch More and the Vox Media Podcast Network.  Live from WNBA All Star Weekend, host Megan Rapinoe sits down with five-time All-Star coach Cheryl Reeve, the winningest coach in WNBA history.  Cheryl Reeve has been head coach of the Minnesota Lynx since 2010. In addition to leading the team to four WNBA world championships, Reeve supported the Lynx’s 2016 protest against police brutality and continues to advocate for social justice issues in Minneapolis and beyond, including as an outspoken supporter of transgender athletes.  Megan and Cheryl get into how she’s evolved as a coach, the WNBA’s legacy of activism and why she’s proud of a league where “everyone is so authentically themselves.”  Why Are You Like This? is a co-production of A Touch More and Vox Media Podcast Network. New episodes every Thursday. Follow Megan on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mrapinoe/  Follow A Touch More on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whyareyoulikethis/  Follow A Touch More on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@whyareyoulikethis Learn more about A Touch More here: https://www.atouchmore.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, everyone, from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. This is on with Kara Swisher, and I'm Kara Swisher. Today we're bringing you an episode of a new podcast called Why Are You Like This with Megan Rapino from a Touchmore and the Vox Media Podcast Network. In this episode, host Megan Rapino sits down with five-time WNBA All-Star Coach Cheryl Reeve, the winningness coach in WNBA history. The WMBA has exploded in popularity in recent years. On top of the surge and viewership, the league's 30th anniversary season tipped off on the heels of an historic collective bargaining agreement that gave players a nearly 400% salary increase. Cheryl Reeve has been head coach of the Minnesota Lynx since 2010. In addition to leading the team to four WNBA World Championships, Reeve supported the Lynx's 2016 protest against police brutality and continues to advocate for social justice issues in Minneapolis and beyond, including as an outspoken

supporter of transgender athletes. In this conversation recorded live during the WNBA All-Star weekend, Megan and Cheryl get into how she's evolved as a coach, the WNBA's legacy of activism, and why she's proud of the league where, quote, everyone is so authentically themselves. Stick around. Support for this show comes from Odu. Running a business shouldn't feel like surviving a software group project. One app for accounting, another for inventory, another for sales, and somehow none of them

ever talk to each other. That's where Odu comes in, an all-in-one business management software that brings every part of your business together, from sales and accounting to inventory and marketing, all in one powerful platform. No messy integrations, no bouncing between tabs, and best of all, no spreadsheets. Stop managing software and start managing your business with one unified system. Try it today for free at O-do.com slash Kara. That's O-D-O-O-O-O-com slash Kara. Megan Rapino here. This week on Why Are You Like This? I am talking with W Kamau Bell,

and he is no stranger to creating his own lane. We dig into the whys behind some of his biggest decisions, like holding space for Ted Danson to talk about his blackface scandal, Kamau's approach to dealing with trolls, and what he would have changed when interviewing the KKK. We also wonder if Megan Kelly is flirting with us. Check out the latest episode of Why Are You Like This, wherever you get your podcast, and on YouTube.

Hi, it's Kara Swisher. You know me as co-host of Pivot, but for August, I'm flying solo, and I've lined up some incredible guest host to join me. Mark Cuban, Chelsea Handler, Caitlin Collins, and a lot more you won't want to miss. Already out, my conversation with Hillary Clinton. Among many other things, we get into redistricting fights, reshaping state politics, and what Trump's golden makeover of the presidency actually means. And it's not good. Trust me, you don't want to skip this one. Find Pivot on YouTube or wherever you listen to podcasts. My dad said, Cheryl, are you a lesbian?

And I remember the word at that time, I was like, God, no, that one not a lesbian. I was more a dyke than I was a lesbian, right, at that age, right? I was. Please welcome the host of Why Are You Like This Two-Time World Cup champion, Megan Rapino. You know, you just like get a little nervous randomly? All of a sudden, I'm like, I knew what the call time was and I knew what time the show was starting.

But then I get up here and I'm like, oh my God, it's just me. Hello, everyone. Welcome to Why Are You Like This. I'm Megan Rapino. We are live here in the Windy City, of course. Shout out Charlottone, Chicago. This is actually where I started my professional career, LOL.

It was so fucking cold when I got here. I think it was like April, too. And they were like, it's actually warming up. It's spring. It's like, that's cute. Before we get the show started, I wanted to just kind of like run down what this new show is going to be like. Why are you like this?

I want to be sitting down with disruptive people, athletes, of course. we have an amazing guest today but also like people across culture artists politicians honestly anybody will say yes to sitting down and having a different kind of conversation

I feel like I got this question all the time I think I still do in a lot of ways like implicitly explicitly sometimes literally like why are you like this what's going on Sometimes my mom asked me that.

Like, do you have to do it? Do you have to be the one to say it? And I'm like, I do, Mom. Remember those lessons. But I feel like I got this question all the time. Like, why do you know, say the things you do or why is your hair that color? Why isn't it that color?

Why do you wear the things that you do? Or not. I mean, not usually that. I feel like I'm not like a, you know, a skin boy or anything. But I think it's really easy to, like, flatten people out or things out. I think in our kind of, like, media landscape and culture, right now people are really, not really people, I think things are, like, wanting it to be simple. And I'm like, humans just really aren't that simple.

We're way more complicated that. We're way messier than any sort of, like, one tagline thing. I think everybody knows that. there's a lot more nuance so I feel like that's the conversation I want to have just putting a little bit more space into why are people the way that they are like why do they make the decisions where does that come from who are the people that shape them that was something that I feel like was always important to me to be able to like have that space I'm like I don't know sometimes I use humor when I'm sad and I'm like what the fuck is that like why do we do that that's so weird like I'm so sad and I'm going to make a joke about myself. Okay. Like, I'm interested in that for other people and also for myself and I know like having the space to do that is really important. So that's kind of the way that I want to have all of these conversations and talk to people. That's kind of like the impetus to the new show. So that's that. Obviously we're recording in the middle of

WMBA All-Star. Have you guys been taking in the sights and the scenes and the sound? Yeah How is this is like people's first all-star Baby's first all-star Okay, people's like 25th all-star Anybody? Somebody here has been here For a very long time

We have the winningest coach In the WMBA joining us today That's right Yeah, she's a baller You know her, you love her Five-time All-Star Coach Cheryl Reeve Plus, you're going to get some reactions to my hot take, so I'm going to let you guys throw some shit out there, and I like to say stuff. I like to hear stuff.

Welcome to Why Are You Like This with Megan Rapino. I'm Megan Rapino. Let's get into it. I feel like the first thing that I was excited about is the stud butt, right? We have, we've got blue hair now, and I'm like, I get it. I've been there. I'm like, let's change it up. I love it for him.

Never got paid to change my hair, but I'm like, that was stupid of me. Hey, AT&D. I have a clean palate for you. No, you got your girls? I get it. I'm loving it. Are you guys following in on their content? We're just, we're viving.

Have we had any, like, favorite moments so far? You can just like holler them out if you want or not. What? You got on their live stream? Wow. What were you doing? You don't even, you were like, we don't know. We were just there.

I love it. I got to go to the presidential Obama center this morning. Has anybody been? Wow. It was kind of shocking. I feel like we've gotten used to some stuff at a different level, a lower one, obviously. And I'm like, damn, he could talk.

That's inspiring. I'm like, Cise Pue de. Yeah, we can. Right? We can. Yes, we can. It was absolutely beautiful. I also saw all of the footage of them practicing,

like at the, I feel like it was just so cute. They were like, he loves them and they love him. And it was just like, oh, that's amazing. That was so cool. Like, there's some just moments. I do believe in FOMO and I get it and I'm trying to work on it. But I'm like, I want to play in the WMBA at the All-Star game. I don't even need to do the whole season.

I'm like, I want to play the All-Star game. I want to dribble around and like have President Obama be amazing all the time. I hope all the few more players were reading the plaques and stuff, but... No? Okay. I, too, am wondering where my three-point contest invitation was. Just if those were getting lost up, like, did mine? They were sending them out late.

I don't know. What happened there, though? You know what I love about the WMBA players? they will just like never, ever not call out shade. They're like, no, you didn't ask me. They're like, excuse me in a press conference, I didn't receive the text message, nor did I receive the official invite.

Don't come for me. K-Mack, I feel like, and Sabrina especially, they were like, mm-mm, we love to shoot a three. We would have shot that thing, but anyways, that's all the jokes I have. for now. Let's get to our guests. Shera Reeves' bio is like just kind of ridiculous, but I'm gonna do it. So that's actually the bulk of the show, so I'm just gonna be here for the next 46 minutes or so. She's the wangest coach of all time in the WMBA.

She's been inducted in the women's basketball Hall of Fame. She's led the Minnesota links to not one, two, three, but four WMBA championship. one Commissioner's Cup win. She's got a gold medal to her name, the 24 Paris Olympics. Incredible. I was in the stands for that. Everybody saw it.

That was a two. Sorry, Gabby. We love you, but absolutely not. When you're playing for LaBlu and we're in America, okay? No. She's been the coach of the year four times, named an all-star coach five times. Please welcome to the show.

New Jersey and Minnesota's finest, shallery? And a fellow gay, obviously. You don't say. Welcome to the show. Thank you so much. This is so exciting. This could not be more fitting.

I heard the same darn thing from my mom. Why are you like that? This is perfect. What are you doing? Why are you like that? Welcome. How are you?

How are your sleep levels? W&B. All-Star. is a totally different beast. How does it feel to be coaching in the All-Star game again for the fifth time, but just in general, how has this experience been so far? It's always really special. You know, it's a celebration.

And, you know, I said this is one of the few times that, you know, all these great competitors and all the things that you see in the moments in the games that might be difficult and competitive. It looks like we don't like each other. When you're at All-Star, you see there's actually lots of love. for everyone, right? The coaches, the executives and the players themselves. And so it's really refreshing to be in that moment. Obviously, it's a great honor. It's never lost on me, although there's sometimes when I think maybe just going to sleep for a few days would be great. But

it's always an honor. And obviously, now I have a son who's 11, how much he enjoys being around the WMBA players is one of his favorite events to come to. He was in Indianapolis last year had a great time and he was really excited we had a chance to come back i love it oliver's in the crowd there yeah shout at all over harrison um your coaching team spoon this year i'm curious maybe you like didn't envision that you would be here this year your team went through quite the transformation why is that funny to you like i'm just like i know honestly people ask me all the time if i'm gonna coach and i'm like are you fucking serious Do you know what it means to be a coach?

Do you know the levels of stress? We were talking just backstage. You lost eight or nine of your players. Fee had not one but two ankles done in the off season. Like she's recovering from that. You had a high draft pick, so you drafted Olivia. I mean, you have to like put the ball in a rookie's hands. I mean, who knows how that's going to go.

that's crazy like turns out it's fine but you're here your team is in first place you're the only 20 team 20 game

win team 20 win team jesus 20 win team yeah I'm like I can't even do this how am I going to coach you know what the only 20 win team in the league

what does this one mean to you well it's been a lot when I think about CBA negotiations, a lot of uncertainty, and then boom, you know, we got the word, it's on, and, you know, we've been preparing, and we sort of knew some of the changes we were going to go through as a team that were inevitable with the increased money and roles that people could have. I felt really incredibly proud about the team that we had in 24 and 25, really, really special. And we create a lot of opportunities. for these players.

But then when it was all said and done, I was kind of pissed, you know, where I'm going, that's just great, you know, like we did all this, and they chose other teams, and we're supposed to celebrate them. And, you know, outwardly it was really great, but when I was home, I was like, this sucks. And, you know, you have to start over, you know,

kind of, obviously it's not starting over when you have Fee, Courtney, and McBride, it's not starting over. But as you mentioned, you know, starting this season with such uncertainty, you know we didn't know and I think about training camp which feels like a year ago at this point but the the training camp there was a lot of uncertainty even who was going to make the final roster those are not necessarily your best seasons and I think what happened in maybe all of our sort of granular thinking about who was going to make the roster something special was actually

brewing with the starting five that we had with obviously Olivia Miles it was week two after we had a preseason game in Kansas City that I had this sort of moment where I thought, okay, we can go forward with Courtney as the sometime point guard and sometimes live, you're the point guard, or we can just get right to it. Let's just get right to it. And in week two, I just brought Courtney in and I said, hey, I think we want to, you know, turn the reins over to live and let her just go, you know, and, you know, she stood up and she said, let's, you know, an only way Courtney can, you know, let's go all height, and I think it's the right thing, and I can go back to my natural spot. And so that last week, that third week,

boom, we just sort of took off, Nia Coffey having her best season in her career. It's about opportunity as we're seeing around the league, whether it's expansion or a team like ours, maybe some dilution in our team, and so new opportunities around the league, and then Natasha Howard coming back, and everybody just sort of fitting. Those, that starting really fitting really, really special through the first half of the season. Their net rating was darn near plus 20. And I've got a bench that they're still trying to figure me out my impatience and how to fit into that impatience.

And, you know, yeah, it's hard to believe that we're sitting here first in a league and, you know, 20 plus wins. You know, I feel grateful. Support for this show comes from Odu. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other. One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. Before you know it, you're drowning in software instead of growing your business. This is where Odu comes in. Odu is the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one, fully integrated

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Try O-D-U-for-free at O-D-O-O-O-com. That's O-D-O-O-O-O-com. Are you stuck in a job working hard but feel like no matter what you do, you just can't seem to get ahead financially? Or maybe you've always felt like sales is something other people do. Not you? Well, this week on Net Worth and Chill, I'm chatting with Shelby Sapp, the internet's queen of sales,

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Listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube.com slash your rich BFF. The perfect segue, why are you like this, Coach Cheryl? I don't know if you heard me talking backstage, but the question I really want to get to in the show is that, and I feel like I've had this question a million times. in a million different ways. And I think there's so much, especially you've had such a long career.

You've been in the game. Why do you have to say it like that? Such a long career? Long and accomplished. Yeah. But still young and bright. And a long road ahead of you. But you have like an established who you are in this league.

And I'm so interested. I feel this for me of like, I feel like there's two of me. I'm like there's Megan Rapino and everybody knows that. You know, that's kind of like who's in front of the mic. And then like Megan's like inside of Megan Pino right now and she's like, whoa, this is crazy. So there's two. I wonder if you ever feel that. That's sort of like divergence of personality where like yes, you're Sheryl Reeve, the coach, Olympic coach, All-Star Coach, Coach of the Minnesota Links, like all-time coach in this league and then there's also just you do you feel those two things and how do you feel them

the first one you describe i don't think of myself as and that's that's hard for me i don't i don't see that i i am such a sort of grinder in the moment and then i come to places like these and then the gravity of the moment and the maybe your impact uh you start to you know to to feel that but for me it's just um kind of where i am and what i'm doing that day and you know, that practice. And I only know one way, and that's to kind of pour in to what I'm doing there. So I don't feel like I have that. I'm the same. I mean, it's kind of scary for my family that what you see I'm actually like that at home, you know. And that can be hard, I know, for that, you know, for those two in my life. But I'm by nature a very critical person, very critical of myself,

critical of those around me. I've tried to evolve in that space and be less critical. You know, and that's been an evolution, you know. I'm still evolving, as they say. Who shaped that part of you, do you think? The critical? Just like the, I mean, part of it is the critical, but also just like the Cheryl, the coach, the, you know, the wife, the mom,

the, like, person that you are in the world. I'm not sure because I've kind of gone through that. Like, am I more like my mom or my dad? And, you know, like, what is it from? I have those questions when you get older, right? Like, where does this come from? Who do I owe? you know, like, who do I thank?

You know, and so recently, so my mom's 87, and, you know, recently, you know, people are asking her things. And so she's doing a little more storytelling. And they asked, you know, somebody asked about sort of my stronger voice or willingness to, you know, to speak on things. And she said, oh, she was always like that. Such a smart mouth, you know, when she was, you know, just a youngster, just always had something to say. And I was like, okay. So I guess it's always been the case. I have felt confident.

But from a professional standpoint, I think I've always been, I was a point guard. I remember in my freshman year when I went to LaSalle University and we were doing our fall workouts. And I've just always had a way of sort of speaking, you know, whatever I was thinking. And it's not always good. I don't mean to say this as like complimenting myself at all. It's not always good. Having a filter would be much better. Yeah, no, I've been there.

I'm like, but I remember we were playing pickup, and I'm mad. We're just playing pickup, but I just wanted to win that possession. And, you know, and I'm yelling at my teammates that don't even know me yet. I'm telling them, you know, get back on D. Don't rest. Don't rest on defense, you know, like right away. I'm just kind of.

And I think if you just take that and just put that everywhere, you know, like as a teammate, you know, as a partner, you know, probably as a mom. I think I'm a little softer as a mom. But I think the, you know, the idea of, you know, saying what you think there's value in the, in the truth, right? I think that's, but that I've really kind of learned is not everybody really wants to hear the truth, you know, and sort of finding that balance of you, I think you should surround yourself of people that are going to be honest with you. I think that's really important. I've shared that with Oliver when he didn't get the report gravity that he wanted. I said you should thank your teacher.

for that and he thought I lost my mind. But it's true. You know, is there somebody to, like, you're not, nobody's perfect. There's always room to grow. Go back to what the original question was, because I'm starting to go on my tangents. I like it. I'm like, I'm locked in.

Yeah. Does who shaped you? Yeah, the shaping. So, so, so when I first got in the WMBA as an assistant coach, again, I, you know, I work for, you know, some people that maybe my directness as an assistant coach wasn't always appreciated. It was coming from a space of wanting to win, but I thought everyone was confident in what they were doing and when I started to recognize that maybe that wasn't the case. It was when I went to work for Bill Lambert that he embodied

the be yourself, how important is for everybody to show up and be yourself. And he wanted me to be myself. And so for me, it was, you know, I could be hard hitting and I could speak my mind and that was okay. And that was sort of the first time that I thought how good that felt like to be able to be yourself. And then, you know, just, you know, when I went from there right into head coaching, I feel like that gave me the confidence that everyone needs to be able to be themselves, every player and their personalities or everyone that's working for you. So you can bring your authentic self to the workplace and how what, you know, great height you can reach in doing that. So I've just been able to do that. Players let me be me. Every season I thank the players. Thank you for letting

me be me because it's not always easy. But they know that I'm coming from a place of care and love and wanting the best for everyone involved. That's such an interesting thing. I feel that so much of like if everybody's allowed to bring their full self. It's going to be less comfortable, but it's going to be better for everyone. Certainly Bill was wanting to bring his full self. I mean, I think you have, at least from the outside from, I'm sort of like half in, half out, but from my view, you have a real reputation of allowing players to be themselves in a really wide spectrum. I mean, I think back to, I feel like my real first, like, entree into the Minnesota lengths is 2016. And, you know, the players protesting police brutality.

Philando Castile has just been murdered in Minneapolis. your players are standing up there, you're standing with them, all the way to like, you know, Maya Moore and her activism that, you know, eventually led her away from your team. I have some regrets. Yeah, yeah. You're like, you know what? Good for you.

Maya. Love that for you. You know, to the stud buds. Like they were too, you know, really outspoken and they were like doing the stream. and for such kind of like a hard-ass coach or someone who says what they think and what they feel, you really like let them do that. And I'm curious about the,

I always feel like doing the right thing isn't 100% altruistic. Like there's, you know, at the end of the day, like you're judged on your wins and losses. And I'm curious how you think about that in terms of letting your players be who they are, in terms of your like coaching, style and your strategy in trying to be the best coach that you can.

Yeah, I think it's really simple exactly what you said. No, the recent one was obviously the stud-buzz. And we were in Dallas. And I guess they, I'm not real up on this. And so it's probably for the better that I don't know a lot of this. But sometimes people send me things, you know. And so I was really unaware. This was Dallas in, I guess it would have been 2025.

and we had just had our film session and we were breaking. We were going to go do our pregame meal. We're going to go out that game that night. And I get a message from Courtney and T saying they wanted to meet. And I thought, oh, that's kind of annoying. We all have our routines. And like, why are we meeting now? Like, what are we doing?

And so they bring me in and they sit me down and they go, we're worried. You know, we're worried. What are you worried about? Well, we're worried because I might have put a battery on Dijunet Carrington's back who was playing for Dallas at this time, which means that maybe she said something on the stream that might have gotten her motivated, a little extra motivated that night. Apparently, she was maybe disparaging the lack of success that Dallas was having at that time. And she's like, she's like, I'm worried you're going to be upset with us. I'm worried you're not going to be okay with this.

And so I said, well, tell me exactly what happened here, you know. And Courtney, I like, you know, we have some good banter. And there's a fine line. And I, I, I, I, I, I told her 10 years ago, maybe I wouldn't be able to be in the space that I am. So we always said the timing of us being together has really been important. I don't know that Courtney could handle me 10 years ago and me, them, right? Because it really has stretched my boundaries. And it's fun, right? It's really fun to kind of do that.

But all of it while the team is successful, that's why I told, as long as the main thing is the main thing. And that's been stretched, you know. and I'm a big believer and you get what you accept. And so I wanted them know how important it is that they are mindful of their teammates and how they feel. And then maybe they're very comfortable in this very loud space, this very, you know, revealing, et cetera, but not everybody is. And so always considering your teammates and your organization, you know, make sure that you know that you're representing yourself, your family, your organization, all the things. So I, you know, I do that spiel, and then they assured me that, you know, it was all about winning and doing that. And so, you know, you mentioned the, you know, the activism and, you know, same thing.

You know, when we went through, you know, in 2016, I don't know if you have time for this, if you're interested in this, in this part of this, but you are? Okay. Short answer, yes. And, you know, it was a really difficult time. You know, 2016 wasn't new in terms of what was happening with police officers. or involved shootings or, you know, the racial profiling, etc. Simone Augustus had experience being racially profiled a couple years before. I had some conversations with players and coaches, and, you know, we just talked about

their experiences, you know, going shopping, going through a store and being followed, and just different things that sort of accumulated over time. And this particular one was hard. Simone Augustus, you know, in Baton Rouge, Alton Sterling. had been murdered at the hands of the police. And I remember thinking, you know, like how difficult that was for Simone. Simone had frequented that store that had occurred in front of. And so that was on our minds, you know, having those conversations and talking about their feelings.

And then just a couple of days later, we were in Connecticut at the Mojigot Sun getting ready for a game with the Connecticut Sun. And we woke up to the news of Philando Castile on his awful murder in the hands of police. in St. Paul, Minnesota. So it was really hitting close to home for us. And, you know, I learned a long time ago that when the unaffected are affected, that's when change can happen.

I'm the unaffected. I'm white. I'm with privilege. And I was affected. And so I remember waking up and not really giving a shit about the game that night. I thought, how can I give a shit?

How can I go into shoot around and, you know, you know, demand, you know, this focus, this, you know, this preparation. And we went and before shoot around, we gathered the captains, Lindsay, Simone, Maya, and Rebecca. And I told them how I was feeling. I said, I can't imagine how you all are feeling. And so we gave them a space to talk. And I said, let's do something. Let's use our voice for good. Let's use our voice for change. What do you guys want to do. And they thoughtfully, I said, I'll give them the space and they thoughtfully came up with the idea of wearing t-shirts that represented, you know, some names that were just recently

involved in the police officer involved shootings. You know, the phrase Black Lives Matter in 2016, is very different than the phrase in 2026. And in between, it was a Thursday night, we had a game Thursday night, and then Saturday we were going to be playing Dallas at home. And Friday, my job was to get on the phone and alert those key stakeholders to let them know that our players have made a decision. They were creating these T-shirts and they wanted to be thoughtful. And change starts with us was what was on the front. Obviously on the back, the names of those that were involved. And by Friday evening, there was an ambush of police officers in Dallas.

And so they quickly said, we need to have that Dallas Police Department shield on that shirt and representing, trying to represent everyone that we have to come together for some solutions. By Saturday night, there was a plan press conference. By Saturday night, I was already on the phone with the president of the league at that time. And my phone calls were calling to say, this is what we're doing. This wasn't asking for their permission, their forgiveness, or anything. like that. This was important that they understand that their support was so important at this time. The president of the league at that time, there was, there were two hats as she was wearing.

She was wearing the hat of a commissioner, and she was wearing the hat of a black woman. And so I understood, and I told her I understood, but I told her I was going to take it out of her hands completely. And we're doing this. And by that night, we had a press conference as our four powerful captain stood in front. I was visited an hour before the game with the director of security at the Target Center and I was told that the police officers walked out

and we did not have a secure facility and they walked out because we had Black Lives Matter on our T-shirt. And I said, they're making the very point of what we're talking about. They're making the very point of what we're saying that enact change, that we all have to be a part of this solution.

And it was a lot to go through. I told them that it takes courage to stand in this because there's a lot that's going to come from this that's not going to be favorable. And I said, oh, by the way, and you have to win tonight. And you have to win tonight. Keep the main thing, the main thing. When you don't win, keeping the main thing, because when you don't win, then people say, see if you're stuck to basketball and focus on the right things. So we want to make sure we could silence. And we We won by 30 that night, as heavy as things were. We won by 30 that night.

Thanks for let me tell that story. Being on the right side of things is good business. We always say that. That's exactly right. I want to talk a little bit about your personal style of activism. You took this opportunity. You take every opportunity, whether it's in media at a press conference, you have an unprecedented slogan shirt collection. It's well documented.

It will be in a museum in Minneapolis at some point after your retirement. It's exception. I can't even imagine how big your closet is. Just for the shirts, obviously. It just would be perfectly reasonable for you and most people do to just like wear a suit. Why don't you? Well, this was post-COVID. You know, the meta part of that.

Right. So, you know, post-COVID, who wanted to go back to wearing suits? I look at some of the pictures in how silly I looked, wearing suits and heels. And, you know, and I thought, what a time that was. And so, you know, it was actually that decision of post-COVID of, what were we going to do? What were we going to? We weren't wearing those things anymore. And so how could I rock my new style?

And so I just wanted to, I want people to be seen, feel seen, heard. And there's just so many things that we could really champion for women and other marginalized groups. And I just started doing that. And I just heard from so many people what it meant to them. And so we've continued that. No, it really is. I mean, it's kind of like your signature now. And it seems like such a small thing.

But it's really not. It's taking the opportunity every time to say, like, week, I'm going to wear this orange shirt because, you know, we care about gun violence, or I'm going to wear a shirt about abortion rights or Black Lives Matter or whatever it is. Or you're wearing your players, like you're supporting your players. Do you feel like, I mean, Minneapolis has such a long history of protest, I mean, righteous protest, Renee Good, Alex Pretty,

victims of ICE this year. It's just like it feels like it's always the first place that it really pops off. Do you feel like being in Minnesota so long? Like, do you owe Minnesota something? Have you been shaped by it? Like, tell me about that relationship with this city in particular. Yeah, I mean, I think there's, you know, George Floyd, which was, you know, worldwide, you know, influence. I think that we've just been so good for each other.

You know, the Twin Cities communities and Minnesota and they've let me be me. Hopefully I've let them be them. And like together we've been really, really good. and I feel, you know, you mentioned the ICE protest, and I feel so proud to be a part of the community. One of the decisions I made when I was hired to be the Minnesota Lynx head coach was I wanted to live in Minnesota. That was at a time when coaches were living somewhere else for six months and then coming into market, you know, or flying in occasionally. And it was a really conscious decision that we wanted to be a part of the community. best decision that I made and obviously now raising a beautiful child into the community and what he's learned and how he's been impacted.

So incredibly proud of how we show up for each other. And it was on full display worldwide in what Minnesota did to support. And so I get energized and I feel empowered by living in the community. No, it's a really special. I mean, Prince, like, performing at one of your guys' after you won the championship. It's just incredible. Fucking iconic. Yeah.

Yeah. Incredible. I want to transition a little bit to your upbringing. You're from Jazzy. Yeah. Is that a decent accent in Jersey? Jersey. Yeah, Joise.

Yeah, Joise. Yeah, it's Sal Jersey, you know. I mean, first and foremost, do you hate pumping your own gas? Yeah. You know, that's actually, that's, did you guys know what she's talking about? Yeah. I feel like I half know what I'm talking about. out to my producer Courtney.

I'm like, she's like, you have to ask this question. It's really funny. It's annoying when you go somewhere, right? You go, you know, when you just roll up and you put your window down and hand the card, right, in Jersey, man, when you come to Minnesota in the winter, and I'm like, God, I wish it was in Jersey right now. When I'm pumping the gas, it's like probably the only time that I kind of have that moment of like, I wonder how we could get this, you know?

I always say that little Megan had lots of wisdom. She was wild, but she had lots of wisdom. I want to talk about little Cheryl for a bit. What do you remember of like how you saw the world at that time? Like what are you saying your mom was always asking this question of you? You were born in Nebraska but raised in New Jersey, not far from Philly. LeBron's going to Philly if people are interested in that. I don't know.

He was supposed to be a Timberwolf. Yeah, tough. What do you remember about that little girl on how you saw the world way back? then? I just remember loving sports. I started a young age. Softball was my first love. I was actually, you know, pretty decent in that sport. And I remember playing with the boys. So it was interesting that, you know, girls can play boys sports at that time because we didn't have, you know, we didn't have the opportunity to have our own teams. And so I didn't think anything of it. I just wanted to play. I had two brothers, one older, one younger. We were always doing something, playing 500 in the

backyard, you know, baseball emulating. Chuck Foreman, you know, it was kind of wild that I end up, you know, being in Minnesota when the Vikings were, you know, a team that I really loved. Mostly it was the helmet, the purple and that little yellow thing. But then I became to love, you know, some of the players. And I just always wanted to, you know, be in sports and play. I don't remember, you know, obviously the things that you'll learn when you're older, how the world really works. I don't remember being aware. I remember my dad. I don't know if it was intentional. I'm still, you know, trying to figure that out whether he was being intentional to empower his daughter or if this was just him being him. But he treated me the same as my brothers. I was right there with him when he was working on

home improvement projects. He was very much a DIY guy. We didn't have a lot of money, so he did everything. I was right there with them and I don't remember I don't remember much I remember you know a little bit further in life you know when you start to you know like learn about who you are and your sexuality and things like that then I realized that I knew when I was younger younger but that really wasn't necessarily what you did right so there's just so much and it was high school you know you went through kind of learning who you are and kind of go on. I don't really know what this means.

I don't really care. I'm just me. I still do this day haven't come out anywhere. But isn't it obvious? I always was like, you know, I mean, it's obvious, right? You know, my dad actually asked me one time I was 16 and I had gotten maybe a note from a friend that maybe we were feeling a little extra, whatever. It was a very long note and I must have left it out and dad found it.

and it was a come back to the bedroom kind of conversation, and, you know, and he asked me, it was just him, you know, my mom wasn't there, and they said, my dad said, Cheryl, are you a lesbian? And I remember the word at that time, I was like, God, no, that one not a lesbian. I was more a dyke than I was a lesbian, right, at that age, right? I was. Lesbian dad grow up. I was. I'm a dyke. But I was going through, you know, I was in high school and I tell my son this because, you know, this upsets him, but I tell him it's okay. We were, I was changing classes. I was in between, like it wasn't a change of class. It was just a couple people on the hallway. And I remember walking down the hall and from a distance I hear someone yell, dyke down the hall. And it really hurt my feelings, you know,

know, and I thought, like, well, my gosh, like, what's like, what's like, why are we doing this? Years later, I found out, right, it was a teammate. And you know what I'm about to say, they're a dyke. Yeah. Right? They were the one. And so that's my, it was like my journey. And I always was able to, you know, sort of live my, like, my truth.

and even maybe when it wasn't supported in my upbringing, it wasn't, you know, like, hey, we love you no matter what. It wasn't necessarily that. I just, it was just, that's who she is. Like, but don't tell anybody else, you know, let's not tell the family, you know, that sort of thing. But I've always been, fortunately, what I now know, unapologetically, myself, and I don't know where that came from, but I'm very thankful that's who I've been.

Did you have a like a come to Jesus moment in coaching where I mean I think it's like no seeker in the WMBA they really tried to push this like femme kind of like feminine straight vibe. I think they tried to push it on players and coaches like when did you become comfortable? We were just like I'm the motherfucker who throws the jacket on the floor and is like not ladylike. You know, it's so coded, but he really are one of the most prominent in like first code. Maybe it was Bill Lambert, you know? He's more like a lesbian than we think. I don't know. But that moment where you're just like, you know what?

Like, I'm going to just, I'm just going to be me in this. Well, and I've said this recently as I've reflected more on my career in the WMBA, I was coming out of college coaching. And college coaching in the 90s. you know, was absolutely brutal, uh, for those of us that knew who we were. Um, you couldn't really be out, which was just all really silly. It's still silly anybody that is. It's just, um, it's unfortunate, but that's what it was at that time. Societal norms. That's, that's what we were dealing with at that time. Uh, and then there was all the code of, you know, like use against you in recruiting, um, you know,

family atmosphere was the thing, uh, in the 90s. Um, and then I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, uh, Donovan giving me the opportunity to coach in the WMBA in 2001. I don't know if you guys heard this story, but she offered me $5,000 to be an assistant coach. And I was absolutely. Like total? In total. That was my salary. She's like, sure, I don't have much.

You know, my full-time position is filled and this is what I have. And it was $5,000. And, you know, my family, I had two degrees. And I have an older brother who was, you know, very logical, you know, for him is like everything is planned and he was kind of like, you know, you do have two degrees, you know, and but I was like, I really wanted it. I never thought twice about it and did it. And the WMBA has been so home for me. And that ability, when I got to the WMBA, what was most striking to me is that you could be yourself. I could be myself because I wasn't a player and I

wasn't forward facing. And the time that Megan is speaking to is when we were, you know, opportunities for commercials and promoting the league and go back and look at those photos of Sue and Diana and they look tough. Maybe Diana more like in drag. But, you know, it was like, it's not who they are, right? And you can kind of see it. It's like, what are we doing? You know, and they were still talking about changing the uniforms, right, so that they fit better, right? All this code, you know, stuff that we were dealing with. It's so exciting that the league, you know, now we have stud buds. I mean, come on, like, now we have stud buds.

And everyone loves it. And everyone loves it. And that's what I was going to say. It was really cool. Societal norms of change, right? Megan, you know, like you've been such a big part of pushing, you know, that forward and being ourselves is important and your bravery and your time as an athlete. and being able to show that you can have both and that you are valuable, you know,

and it's, I think that when that floodgate opened, and now we have a league that everyone is so authentically themselves and how beautiful it is, whether you are femme, girl, go ahead, right? Right, whether you're stuck. Shout to the femme gays. Yeah, I mean, like, femme gays, like all the things. That's our by babies. You know, and so it's such an incredible time. And so to see it go from where it was in 2001 to where it is in 20206 makes me really, really proud.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You've seen the span of it. Was there ever a moment where you're just like, what am I doing? This is, like, I feel like for the early builders of leagues, whether it's players or coaches, like, I feel like there always just comes that moment where you're like, yeah, I've got two degrees and I'm making $5.

dollars. This is tough. Did you ever doubt that moment or like you just knew I'm in the W and this is where I'm supposed to be? Well, not until 2003. So 2001, I was in Charlotte. And then 2002, we had a, we had a team that picked up in the middle of the night and left, the Charlotte Hornets left, right, and left the WMBA team behind. And so we lost the team. And then, So it was after 2002. So 2003, I go to Cleveland, the Cleveland Rockers with Dan Hughes. At the end of that season, so LeBron James was coming in to the NBA. And Gordon Gunn was the owner of the Cleveland Cavaliers and Rockers at that time.

And he wanted to sell the team, and so therefore that meant, and I still don't understand. It meant getting the books in order. And so that meant getting rid of the WMBA team first. And then they could then sell the, you know, sell the NBA franchise. And so in 2003, when that happened, that was the second team, you know, sort of in short order. And I remember kind of going, all right, this is kind of rough. And every year it was, is the league going to be here? Not just the team that I'm working for, but is a league going to be here?

And when I was in Charlotte, not only, you know, was it sort of, you know, difficult in terms of support for, the NBA franchise, but it went so far as you couldn't be in the facility, the practice facility at the same time as the NBA team. So just marginalized to the nth degree. And it just, you know, felt kind of, you know, it was demoralizing at times and it could be hard to believe in. But in 2003, when we lost the Cleveland Rockers, I remember having a conversation with my older brother kind of going, okay, here we are again. I'll be collecting unemployment for a little while. And that's what we did. You know, in the WMBA, you lost a team,

collect unemployment for a little while, get your next job. You don't know what's next. And I remember kind of feeling like, I didn't want to keep calling, you know, sort of with the same concerns. It was like I wanted to be the last call. It's kind of like when, you know,

you guys are hearing out one of your good friends who's in a relationship that keep, they keep calling you and telling you the things and you're like, well, yeah, maybe it should do something different or, you know, it was kind of like that. I didn't want to be the one that kept calling my brother saying, geez, here I am again.

And so I remember kind of going, this is a crossroads. And it's still very, you know, vivid for me. And I feel it that I love the WMBA. And I thought, if it's going down, I'm going down with it. And I'm so glad that I had that moment. And I had my brother going, Jesus Christ, you know, can you go coach college again or something? And so, and my dad for many years, you know, wondered aloud when I was going to get a real job, you know, because it was like this summer.

I'd be away for six months, come home for six months, and my relationships that would be strained by it. He's like, what are you doing, you know? And, you know, he passed in 2008, so he never really kind of got to see if this real job worked out, you know, pretty good for us. Oh, well, he would be incredibly proud, and it is an incredible time for the W and certainly different from when you first started. You've had some all-time quotes over the course of your career. Like truly all-timers. I'm going to read you some of these quotes, just in a little rapid fire section, and you're just going to tell me if you would change anything. Or not, which I'm guessing.

I'm going to get some more knots. Okay. We should have done it for the gays. I would absolutely not change a thing. What was funny, well, go ahead, yeah, go ahead. What was funny was, that was my attempt. I don't handle losses very well. And, you know, we lost.

And I have been, I've been really, really focused on trying to be more graceful after losses. How's that going? Really good. I did that. That was my one liner. That was my attempt at levity, bringing levity to the situation. And I really didn't think much about it when I said it, because when you're in media sessions, I'm with media people that I see all the time. I still haven't grasped the viral nature of maybe that something like that could happen.

So, yeah, I don't have any regrets. And then, like, I think it was two days later, he said, we got our lick back for the gays. Yeah. So you did bring it back. I did. I did conflating a couple of things there, I guess. Moving on, passing Mike Tebow for all-time wins in the WMBA. Sorry, Mike.

We've had a lot of great battles. Well, same thing. It was very genuine. You're like, we have, and I won most of them. Yeah. I mean, he was such a big part of my career in our relationship through the years and learned a lot from Mike and he was such a supporter of mine and so I don't know what else do you say I mean like he was happy for me and I said I'll be happy for

the next person I love that um I do always appreciate your uh willingness and ability really to to mostly keep up with the times quote I ate all the way down all timer oh lord uh you're with it I was with it I was with it um yeah I mean I've had you know, whether it's, Oliver didn't teach me that he'd all the way down when he gets embarrassed. Sometimes he's like, mom, oh God, mom. But he learned about the clocket thing with Oliver, you know, clockette, clock that tea. Yeah. Right?

Yeah. Yeah. So he's taught me a lot, which I really appreciate. He helps keep me current. He's being raised by the W also. Yes, he is. Yes, he is. He'll be a good man.

Yes, he is. Okay. I'm going to try out a new segment game thing. We're going to see how it goes. It's called Mommy Daddy Baby. Oh. Forgive me, but we're just going to be sticking strictly to heteronormitivity for the sake of the game. You guys will get it.

What percentage of the blow makes up Cheryl? And I'm going to give the definitions of each. Mommy is like emotional caretaker, mental load carrier, nurture, like she's doing it all. Daddy. Protector, enforcer, self-insured, carrying heavy things. Like, what's he actually doing, though? You know? Like, sometimes you're like, what's going on?

And then baby. Baby's just carefree, pampered, not lifting a finger, having an absolute ball. I'm 40% daddy, 40% baby, sometimes 90, and 20% mommy. So, you know, I'm like, well, really, really baby daddy is where I'm at to give reference. What was Mommy again? Mommy is emotional caretaker, mental load carrier, nurture. Like she's doing it all. She's got the ticker in her head.

My wife is here, so I'm kind of looking, what's the answer? I think baby like zero. Yeah. Oh, no, Carly's saying no, but it's not the right answer. Maybe 10? A little bit, maybe. Maybe 30, 60, 90? Or 30, 60, 10?

30, 60, 10. 30%? baby 60% daddy 30 mommy 30 mommy 60 no carly that's wrong oh god this is so hard this is so hard who am I it is a funny you're definitely some daddy I am some daddy I am some daddy I'm got to be 60 yeah that's what I was thinking 60 yeah that's why I went with a 30 30 30 30 30 10 baby yeah okay nice you got to get that baby up yeah yeah everybody's got to get the baby up I I feel like the baby is the best part of it. I'm like, well, I'm just here.

Yeah. Okay, one final question. Who should I ask, why are you like this to next? Oh, wow. Why are you like this next? Wow, I need some time on that one. Geez. Okay.

Anybody want to help phone a friend? Yeah. Maybe Courtney. Who? Courtney might be a good one. That's, she's actually really. Or live. Liv my, Olivia might be a good one.

Livy miles. Yeah. Yeah, those are good ones, you know, in my, in my orbit. Courtney's really an interesting one. Yeah. I would love to know. I would love to know why she's like this. Hey, and when, if you, if you choose to go that route,

back here, you need to have the picture of her in high school. Actually, even her, her, when she was attracted, like, it's going to be very confusing. Very confusing. She did not know who she was in the age. We've all been there, and they are tough pullback photos. Indeed. Cheryl, thank you so much for joining me. Thank you.

Thank you, guys. Thank you, everyone, for being here. Don't forget to listen to Why Are You Like This. Thank you, everybody, for coming. Appreciate it. That's it for this episode, everybody. Our show is produced by Nashak, Keroua, Art Chung, Courtney Stiff, Christine Williams, Brenna McFarland, McKenzie Fifth Patrick, and Jessica Dolan.

Why Are You Like This is produced in partnership with Fox Media. Thanks for listening to this special episode of Why Are You Like This with Megan Rapino. We'll be back with a new episode of On with Carrow Swisher on Monday.