One Song - Bell Biv DeVoe's "Poison" with Tank

Episode Date: September 12, 2024

Live from Las Vegas, Diallo and LUXXURY are joined by Grammy-nominated R&B singer, songwriter, producer, and actor Tank to discuss one of the top party jams of the 1990s: “Poison” by Bell Biv DeVoe. On this special episode, they discuss how three former members of New Edition took R&B to a new level by blending rapping and singing, pull back the curtain on how the song was made (remember that iconic drum intro and those smooth harmonies?!), and state the case for why you should never trust a big butt and a smile.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Free of charge. BetMGEMD operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming, Ontario. Ladies and gentlemen, your host of one song, Diallo and Luxury. Thank you for having us. Las Vegas how you feel. Thank you. Welcome, Vegas. We love you.

We would be remiss if we didn't say RIP to the legend fat man scoop, hip-hop icon. Make some noise for scoop. We are so stoked for today. We're so glad you guys could come and join us. Today's song is one of the top. party jams of the 90s, so you came to the right one. And Beyond, it peaked at number one on the Billboard, R&B, and hip-hop songs chart. In 1990, certified quadruple platinum.

Anyone want to guess, by the way? Actually, I'd be curious, you've never done this before with an audience. Anyone want hazard a guess? A couple more clues. No guess is quite yet. All right, what about you? Give them a couple more clues. Oh, we will.

Listen, this song dominated mainstream radio, MTV, barbecues, ushered in a new era of R&B. And if you learn anything from this group in their lyrics, It's that you should never, ever, ever, ever, ever, trust a big butt and a smile. We know what it is now. That gave it away. We're coming to you live from Las Vegas.

It's one song, and that song is Poisoned by Bell Biv DeVote. Let's hear it. Never. Never trust it. You know, I went around trusting Big Buts and Smiles until I heard that song. Up until this song. I learned a lot.

I learned a lot. I am actor, writer, director, and sometimes DJ Diallo Riddell. And I'm producer, DJ, songwriter, a musicologist, luxury, also known is the guy who talks about, interpolation, on the internet. Yes, you do. Yes, I do. What's going on, Vegas? How are you all doing? Hello.

Listen, listen, we have a very special guest with us today. He's a Grammy-nominated R&B singer, songwriter, producer, and actor. You've heard his hit songs, When We? Maybe I deserve. Please don't go. He's also written and produced some of the steamyest-sexiest songs for the likes of Beyonce, Aaliyah, Jamie Fox, Alicia Keys, Jennifer Hudson.

And if that wasn't enough, he co-hosts the amazing R&B podcast with his friend and producer, Jay Valentine. Trust us, this man stays busy. And he knows his R&B from front to back. Las Vegas. Make some noise for Tank.

Tank in the building. Welcome to On song. Tank. Get on up here. We are ready. We're just going to go, For 40 minutes. Diallo, right?

It is Diallo, yes. That's a great name. Thank you. Okay? I saw you getting your eyebrows arched in the... Really? Tank, that's how you're going to start this? I just want to say that that was very R&B of you.

You know what I mean? Yeah, well, you know... To make sure the... Listen, did you throw a little gel on it and climperman at the end? He came out looking like he's got a hit record on the radio. I'm just trying to tell you. Oh, thank you, man. I'm frequently mistaken for an R&B artist.

You're lucky I have on a shirt right now So much going on right here And then luxury Yeah, yeah, yeah You got something for me That is a hell of a name Mm-hmm Thank you

You've been laying some mean Meme luxurious pipe In the community in order to get that name All right That's how it starts It's always a woman that names you He says, oh boy that was luxurious What you did to me last night

Luxury It's always a woman in a Who named you? My grandmother. Oh, really? Yep. I was a baby. I had a big head in the big stomach.

And I was running around, making a gang of noise. And my cousins used to talk about me and say, yeah, a tank head boy, need to sit down somewhere. You're making too much noise. And my grandmother in defense of me. But that's my tank, boy. That's my tank. Leave my tank alone.

And I became tank from that day. I wish I had a better story. I wish I had a story like luxury. I'm going to use your story now. That's a better story than it really is. I wish I was tanking some shit. And she said, boy, you really tanked that. But I don't, I don't know about that.

It also sounds like it didn't go right. It didn't go. Yeah. Too aggressive. Well, listen, thank you for coming on the show. And we had talked about, like, maybe doing one of your songs, but we're so excited that you decided to come on here and talk about Poisons Bill Bib DeVoe.

On your Johnny Gill episode of R&B Money, you mentioned that your first concert was New Edition during their Heartbreak Tour in 1988. What was that experience like and what impact did it have on your career? Man, crazy. So this goes back to the album, the record player times. We got any people who listen to music on the record players with the needle. You have no idea what I'm talking about.

He's like needles. Needles. And so my dad brought this album home, any heartbreak. And I started listening to this album. from front to back. As soon as the needle dropped, when I would come home from school, I would listen to this album from front to back.

Stop, turn it over, listen to the rest of it. And it just, from the production to the songwriting, to the vocals, everything. And I'm a church kid, so for me, you know, this is really my introduction into R&B music. You know what I mean? Like this, I'll say this album, Guy, Anita Baker.

Those were my intros into real R&B music. Your parents weren't listening to like, I don't see if you wonder, like, you know, anything. I had heard, kind of heard those songs in passing because my cousins who were older, who were defiant of the church,

they still went, but, you know, they was on their sin game too. You know what I'm saying? So they was in the streets too. So I would hear these songs in passing, but I mean, if it wasn't the Mississippi Mass Choir or the Mighty Clouds of Joy or the Williams brothers or, you know, if it wasn't

Reverend James Cleveland, it wasn't getting no real play in my house. It wasn't. So when we moved, and I moved with my mom and my dad to Maryland, you got stationed there, that's when I kind of got introduced to R&B, and it was through these albums. So I'm begging my

dad, Dad, I have to go to this concert. Please, can I go to this concert? And here's what's crazy is that you're going to be going on tour with Belvedevo as part of TGT, which is Tyrese, Genuine, and yourself. It's a full-circure moment.

You're literally going on a tour with the people who put on the first concert you ever saw. It went even more full-circle than that, maybe about, what, two years ago, Lou? Was it? About two years ago, I actually opened for the New Edition tour. So it was me, Guy, Keith Sweat, and New Edition. Wow.

Their big anniversary tour, and I was like, you've got to be kidding me. They were like, Tank, would you open? I was like, I'm not an opener. but for a new addition I will warm these chairs to fuck up I will warm them it was me to chairs and the people putting the chairs down

and the ushers and it was just us doing my songs and shit but it was amazing because the impact that they had on me as an R&B songwriter producer and singer for that matter they are the origin

they are the fabric for me you mentioned like all of the specific musical components that you were inspired by Was there, the vocals, it sounds like, might have been number one, but you were saying production as well? Like, what about the production? What about the music making inspired you?

And were you at the time writing and or producing music yourself? I was trying. You were trying. I was in my embryo stages of trying to figure it out. How were you trying to, what did you have? I was writing gospel songs still, church kid. So I'm writing from my little, you know, my piano, my little keyboard. Did moms give me at that time?

I didn't know about, you know, the sequencers and all these things. And so when I finally get something, that's remotely close to like, you know, this Casio with a few tracks on it. You know, I'm noticing that this Cassio doesn't have none of those sounds. Yeah. It's a little dinkie sound like it. It's not the radio. I always like the little boss of Nova setting.

I didn't know what Boston Nova was. It's sars there. Right? Those beats are not rat. They're not awesome beats. It's not, so immediately I'm learning, okay, there are levels to sounds and sonics and things that you have to have in order to be. in that space.

And so I was just attracted to those sounds. And I was like, how do I get those sounds? Well, that's the thing. In the era, we don't know how to get those sounds yet because there isn't YouTube and a thousand tutorials. There's nothing. How did you start to decipher like, I want an 808 or whatever it is? Like, how did you like start to get what you wanted sonically?

I got better equipment. So I would go to the music store. This is when I first got my first, like, synthesizer. Because I had a keyboard. You know the difference. Then I first got a synthesizer with sounds galore. So you know choices of sounds. And could you like kind of sequence some ideas together?

I had eight tracks. Now on these, on these eight tracks, I could, you know, I could merge a couple things on these tracks, right? And so I had to learn, of course, that's when you learn polyphony, right? That's when you learn that game. You could do more one thing at a time. Or you can play a bunch of things. Note at a time, even, yeah. So now I'm learning to simplify my course.

chords and all these things so I can have room for the bass and then have room for the nylon guitar, which was very R&B back then. Who's bending a nylon guitar anymore? Nobody, right? Just Brian Michael Cox and JD, right? So it was those things, and then I started discovering sampling. Because if you listen to Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, a lot of the sonic component that they own is the industrial sonic.

Right. We interviewed and we talked about that exact thing. You're right. And they came into the story because it was actually Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis who suggested when New Edition finished the Heartbreak album, everybody was going off and doing solo projects. It's actually Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis who suggested, hey, you guys should form your own group over here.

Yep, yep. Here's what's even crazy about that, is that, you know, I don't know if you guys know, but I was in the new edition story as Gerald Busby, as the guy who orchestrated all of that. There's so many full circles. And guess who gave me my first two checks as a producer? Jim Jim.

Gerald Busby. Oh, Joe Busby. There it is. Then I end up playing you. You're part of the story. I'm in here. I'm in here. I'm in here.

Whether they like it or not. Yeah. Since we're talking about poison today, was there something about poison, the song Poison for you specifically that inspired you? Is this song, which the story of Tank and Poison? Big butts and smiles. That's universal, right? That's in church too, right?

So it's like, you're waiting for offering time? She got one on her. But musically, you know, poison is so not normal. It was so not normal of a song for its time. I always give BBD the credit as being the first R&B and hip-hop group. They are the first. Totally agree.

To merge that as a unit. And at the time, that was kind of an unusual. It was a crazy choice. Yeah. That was a risky choice. We have a rick. rapper and a singer. This is way before the Fugees. We have a rapper

and a singer. Right. And a dancer. And we're dancing. Yeah. Because once you get into hip-hop, the dancing kind of goes out the window. It's not cool to be hip-hop and dance. It's an interesting time. We always say that New Jack's swing walked so hip-hop soul could run. Talk-to-talk. Talk to talk. Real quick. We want to talk about Hank and Keith

Shockley. Exactly. To your point, we have the story of Belbo DeVoe, just kind of like setting up the song that we'll be getting into and breaking down the stems and listening to it in a way you've never heard before. We're going to get isolated vocals, isolated drums, the whole nine. It does start, as we mentioned, the Jam and Lewis just plants the idea in these young boys' heads. Let's get this to be, let's be a group. Let's do our own thing. And what's kind of funny about this, actually, is that they wanted Jam and Lewis, but the way they tell the story, actually was a Ricky Bell that they couldn't afford Jammin Lewis. And they couldn't afford

Teddy Ryan. They couldn't afford Babyface. So they start going to the, the, the Bomb Squad, Public Enemies, producers is where this story begins. So they go into the studio the first time and they're in their new edition gear. And they're like wearing the suits. They're like, they are thinking of themselves as a boy band. And it's really this moment with Hank Shockley, one of the two brothers in the bomb squad. He says, he doesn't feel the vibe. So he sends them up town to go shopping with his brother.

And they come back for the first time with not the R&B suits, with kind of more of a street look as he puts it. And this starts to get the vibe. just the clothes begins to get them in the spirit of like, let's do something, let's mix it up a little bit sonically, what we're doing with the music as well. Yeah. I'll actually see some of it in the music video, and I've got to bring up the music video.

Poison is one of these songs with an absolutely iconic music video. Let's talk about the choreo. They're dancing on the streets. They're in the club. They're on a basketball court for some reason. They're dancing in a school yard, But wherever they are, their moves are smooth and on point. Can we pull up the choreography?

I mean, come on, man. Come on. Come on. Give it up. Give it up for the choreo. Come on. You got to love that choreo. For those of you watching on YouTube, I mean, like, you really appreciate that.

For some of you all who still listen to only the audio, find us on YouTube. You know, search one song podcast. Because we got that clip. That is like, I think we knew all those moves. I knew some of them They made dancing cool Like it is not cool Like how many hip hop artists do you know the dance

Nowadays In 1990 it was like hammer I know one Offset Okay The end That's the list That's the list

But I mean he's kind of living out His Michael Jackson You know what I mean His desire to be in that space And he's dope at it too Which is really cool But hip hop is not known for

dancing. So they brought something you know what I'm saying? Because back in the day, hip hop would dance. Heavy D Wood dance. Like those guys like were moving but now it's like it's this hybrid of a thing. Right. It's a whole new world. It's a whole new world. I want to

point out one more thing. There was the fashion. Yeah. I mean I think that these guys said a lot of trends. It's easy to forget the fashion. They went from that dapper look. Right. Into like this this baseball Calf, bucket hats, mismatched Tim's, high tops, bomber jackets.

Can you show us a quick clip from the fashion? Yeah. I was just thinking about that. The parkas? Let's not forget about the parkas. Because like we got Oasis are coming back now with the parkas. No, no. This is where the parkas came from. Oasis got it from these guys.

They went from Can You Stand the Rain to Can You Sell Drugs in the Rain. This is what This is what's happening right here. this is what's happening. Like those big old coats, why do you have that big old coat? There's no snow here. You're hiding something.

You're hiding things. I didn't see that. I was like, how cold was it out there that day? Yeah, it wasn't cold at all. We got to talk real quick about the graphics in the video as well, and that Chiron. For those of you haven't seen a while, you'll remember there was a Chiron that ran along the bottom that said, our music is mentally hip-hop, smooth out on the R&B tip with a pop appeal

to it. What the hell did this mean? It means, I know we did that, but we're trying to do this. Yes. It was like the musical mission statement. That's it. No, no, it really was. I think Michael Vindman also was just a big fan of like Kairns.

Because you remember like, in boys a man, there was like CNN. You know, there was always something coming up. Like you said, it's a mission. It was a mission statement. Because they knew they had stumbled on to something that just hadn't been done before. It was special. And we want to tell you exactly what it is so that you'll know how to articulate. And this is what we are.

The mission statement, it's in the video, in their interviews, they'll say it all the time, mentally hip-hop, smooth that R&B tip, pop feel. It also kind of, I think kind of frames something new. It kind of gives the audience who are like maybe about to hear the new thing. And you know the expression, the shock of the new. Often people will be like, this isn't what I'm used to. I don't like it. I don't know what it is.

It's like when you walk in the museum and on the wall, it gives you a little explanation. It's like, this is what you're about to see. In case you don't understand it. It's got a little hip-hop. It's got a little hip-hop. a little R&B, but it's meant to be also sort of pop. So you're like, oh, yeah, I can see. That makes sense now.

Yeah. I have a place I can put this new sound, this new thing. Absolutely. You're open. All right, we're going to take a quick break, but when we return, we'll break down how poison was made. Don't go anywhere. Welcome back to One Song, luxury.

Walk us through Poison. Tell us, how did poison get made? All right. Well, I alluded earlier that there was a producer situation. And the sort of story that unfolded as I was doing a little research is that, while there is one sole songwriter and producer on this song, and this person's name is Dr. Freeds, and his name is Elliot Straight. He gets 100% of the songwriting credit.

He's credited on all the artwork and everything. There were actually three different producers who participated in the song we all know and love. And some of that information's got a little bit buried over time. And there's one person in particular who seems to almost have been erased from the story. So we want to give him his flowers. You've heard his name before because he gets a name drop at the top of the song. But basically, Dr. Freeze is the 100% songwriting credit.

So he tells the story that he wrote this song because he wanted to do it for his own record. And so he and his partner, who I'll just say his name, it's Spider-Man. So you get Spider-Man and Freeze in full effect. Spider-Man. That's his name. He gets name-dropped at the top of the song.

But he gets dropped somewhere along the way. He gets dropped from the way the story gets continued to tell, including the money that comes from it. That's a bit of a mystery. I don't know why that is, but he seems to be a part of this song being made story, so I want to make sure he gets his flowers. And anyway, I do believe him and Elliot Strait, Dr. Freeze,

worked on the song together. I think that the two of them were going to do their own record, and at a certain point, they're like, well, it's taking too long. Let's offer it to Al B. And Al B. Schur heard the song and said, I don't like this song. Damn. They offer poison to Al B'Bee Sure.

And I'll be sure. And I'll be sure turned it down. I'm so glad he did. I'm so glad. Alby, he was like, Mr. Falcetto. Yeah, he was, you know what I'm saying?

He was, he was, I was, just a big button to smile. I could, thank you, I'll be sure. Yeah. Sometimes you got to know your lane. That's all that is. You're right.

His literal quote was, that's my old style. Like, he's like, I'm not doing that anymore. Yeah. So they're like, okay, I guess. I got to say so about Dr. Freeze. He was a hit machine. This is, this man,

also wrote and produced I Want to Sex You Up by Color Me Bad. People forget how controversial that song was. I just got to point this out because you were talking about listening to stuff on the radio. I used to listen to, I'm going to use shorthy. I used to listen to the black radio station. I used to listen to the white pop radio station. And I noticed that there were two different versions of I want to sex you up because on the white version, it was like, you know, girl, come in, take off your clothes.

I'll make you feel at home. I take off your coat. But then when you turn to the black red station, the chorus, hey, beautiful lady. Wait, they got two different versions of I want to set you up. People forget how like balkanized radio was back there.

Two totally different versions. I'm sorry. Dr. Freeze was a genius. Please continue. No, that's important information. It is important information. I did promise you there'll be a third producer in the mix and we already talked about him.

That's Hank Shockley. Shockley on the album Poison, which has nine songs on it. He's got him and the Bomb Squad do half the songs. They don't do this one. In theory, but in actuality, it was brought to them to remix. And so there's an original version I was hoping to track down the pre-Hank Shockley version of Poison. I could not find it anywhere.

Somewhere in the world, there exists the version that Hank Shockley heard and was like, I got to beef this up. It's not hard enough. So think about what public enemy sounds like in your head. And the hardness of this song in many ways comes from a handful of things, but certainly the drum samples are a big, big part of it. So we're going to get to the stems in a second. But just to finish the story of how the song got made and who made it,

it's really three producers. It's not just Dr. Frease. It's also Spider-Man. It's also Hank Shockley and the bomb squad. So just to get this one quote, Shockley goes, I got my hands on the song Poison. When it came to me, the record was very mellow and laid back.

I'm dying to hear this version. Anyone out there in Internet land can find the copy. Yeah, DM us. I would love to hear what this mellow. DM us that. Because what y'all like to DM us, I don't know about that stuff, but if you can DM us this information, that'd be really long. I want to hear this, like, mellow laid-back version of this song.

That's kind of crazy to try to omission. So they boosted it up. They wanted to give it more of a hip-hop element. And, yeah, so that was the story of how the song got made. Who made it? Yeah. First off, I want to say, I want to hear the drums isolated because there is nothing. I was a DJ for years.

And there are a few songs that you can immediately, the audience will immediately recognize just from hearing that first. Call-outs. Call-outs. Like that's. That came in so hard, callouts. So let, can we hear some drums? It's the iconic intro. I'm going to play you how it sounds

when you hear it in the world, and then I'm going to break it down for you so you can hear the component parts. So the song starts like this. So what's going on there? We've got a few things happening. We've got this drum, the snare. I'm going to tell you where this comes from in a second,

but here's just the snare. I'm kind of missing something, right? What's it missing? Well, one thing it's missing is, 808. It's missing the 808, which is a kick drum and bass content. And I'll play that ice.

and I'll explain what that means. Underneath that is this. And note how it's doing, doom, doon, doon, doon. So it's a kick drum. It's the 808 drum machine. And if you play boom cat, boom cat, you'll hear the boom, you can actually have a pitch. And this is not the first time on the show we've talked about it.

That happens on Lucid Dreams. It happens on a handful of songs. It happens on the Doja Cat song. In this era, though, in 1990s, it's kind of a new thing. This is a new thing that's being discovered. That you can tune... And one reason you need to do it is because it takes such a big part of the sonic space,

you can't also have a base necessarily there. So they're innovating in this moment. It's late 80s, early 90s, and by the way, I mentioned Hank Shockley from Public Enemy. He has also been using the 808 in Public Enemy records. There is no base. The only base in those public records... He's been way to play some base.

The only base in those records is the 808 kick drum. So that's happening underneath. I'll play them together, and now you'll hear that all long, there have been these two things working together. I would have never heard that last note before you, I Now I can't unhear it. I'm like that, doom, doom, doom, doon.

Like now it seems very prominent, but I didn't notice that before. Okay, and here, there's one more thing happening in the mix. It's that very prominent, eh, that hit at the end. I unfortunately, I really, I spent hours going down the rabbit hole. I could not find which hit this comes from. I'll play it for you. So that's clearly sampled from. James Brown.

It might be James Brown, but I couldn't verify. Which James Brown track do you think it is? Because you might be right. I just couldn't verify it. Played it again? It very well could be. It could be. It could be. It could be almost anything.

It could be almost anything. It could be I feel good. It might be. Young man. You might be right. You might be right. One thing I'm fairly sure about, though, is that snare is also sample from James Brown. This snare.

What did they do to that last snare? Play it again. Yeah. So I'm going to slow that down for you. Check this out. there is probably a slap delay so that each snare has this kind of thing after it. This is that same beat half time.

You hear how every time there's a snare, there's a da-da-da. Because when they cut the sample... It could be cutting off the thing that comes next in the snare sample. Left the piece, because it sounds like the piece is running throughout the first, the first snare hits,

but then in the last hit, they shorten it. I think it's... And at that time, your ability to perfectly craft where the beginning and end of the samples is very limited. We couldn't see way for them. You couldn't see the waveforms. But here's where it's coming from.

That's great. I love that slowdown. You, boy, you're a genius. I spent a lot of time. It's so fun, though. It was worth a rabbit hole. I like nothing more in life than to do this. Sad but true.

And here is the James Brown song. I'm fairly sure that snare comes from. This is escapism from Hot Pants, 1971. And that's your classic break. When you've got moments like that in a record where there's nothing else going on, it's like, oh, I can use this. Grab it. And, you know, Marley Marley Marley.

is one of the innovators of like just taking a single snare, a single kick and starting to piece them together. And the bomb squad is another one. And Hank Shockley worked on this song. So pretty sure Hank Shockley is selecting the snare, producing the snare. And I also think one last thing I will play, because it's the beat in full. There's another kick that enters, which is also sampled.

There it is. The regular beat throughout the rest of the song. That also sounds like a sound. sampled kick that's been pitched down. And exactly to your point, you can kind of hear the sound that comes after that you can't like take out. Exactly. Yeah.

And so I think that's what's going on in the drums is we have two samples, kick and snare. We have that sound, that hit sound of mysterious origin. And last but not least, we have... That is the isolated sample. And I will tell you the origin of this poison sample, which happens 38 times throughout the song. It's not just one of them saying poison? What's that? One of them couldn't just say poison?

It was a sample too? You know, it's one of those things where, like, why did you sample it if you could have just part of it, I think, is an homage to the original. Yeah. And it's not a coincidence that the original that this is sampled from is a song called Poison. And I will play that for you right now. This is Cool G-Rap, 1988 song Poison, Cool G-Rap and DJ Polo.

This is Poisoned to be alerted, cautious, stoned so acorages, you know. No. No. I thought it was one of them saying it the whole time. They're like, nah, no, no, no, let's get Kooji rap to say this. Yeah. Well, the thing is, like, this is also a moment where sampling, there are certainly lawsuits started to happen.

There weren't rules. But it was the Wild West. There were no rules. They could take that and keep it pushing, all la, Dr. Dre. Absolutely true. No, that's really true. And especially in this moment, it's, one could consider it an homage to the original, to the original.

props. This is my lineage. I'm part of a tradition. And he's in the video. Cool G. Rap is in the video. But go back and watch the video in the dancing scene in the like underground shelter, wherever they are at the very end. It's Cool G. Rap who's doing it. So he, so he accepted it. He accepted it. He accepted it. Exactly right. Good for him. I still want my money. Fair point. I'm going to pull up to the video, but I'm a, we need my money. We got to, we have the isolated vocals We got to hear some vocals Let's go to those

Let's play some vocals Let's start with the iconic intro Yeah Spider-Man and freezing full effect Spider-Man, where'd you go? I never knew what he said right there Spider-Man The mystery of Spider-Man

Spotted little poison full of fact I didn't know what the funny said I'm learning so much Yeah Spider-Man and freezing full of fact You ready Ron I'm ready You ready, Bill?

I'm ready, slick, are you? Oh, yeah. Break it down. Girl, I must warn you. I sense something strange in my mind. Yeah. Yo.

Situation is serious. Let's cure it because we're running out of time. I imagine them in the boot going, Sirius. Harmonizing on Sirius? That's pretty good. That is a choir. It's a choir.

It's church. It's like you said. It is church. Absolutely. Wow. Can you play me some of the chorus because I feel like there's a lot of harmonizing on the chorus.

I think it's like right there. Let's start the pre-cords and then the chorus. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's hard for me to find. Can't get it. Wrong. You're dead. That girl is poison.

That's a choir. It's a choir. It's a big button to smile. That girl is poison. Wonderful rendition. Here's a rare moment where the, the hook isn't the hook. Yes, I know where you're going with this.

It's, go. There are two hooks before the actual hook. It's driving me. That's the second hook. The first hook is the intro, the callout. Okay. There are rare moments where the intro, the first five seconds of a song, does everything you needed to do.

as soon as you hear Pach-c-c-a-tac-tac-tah-tah And It's immediate You have no choice but to do that No choice You're not supposed to do that You're supposed to know

Oh, my song is coming on You know what I'm saying? Yeah That is a call to action Right And then the second hook is The pre-chorus Which is stronger than the hook

Yeah It's nice Are you saying that the hook though Is the drum intro Like just to be clear? Absolutely Yeah, I totally agree. Absolutely.

And how rare is that that a drum pill is a hook? It's a hook. It's a hook. It's an absolute hook. It's so joyful. You could never play that right there in any other moment and people not assume that it's that. I don't care if you make a new song with that. They're always going to refer back to that.

But the B section is the choir moment where the choir, wherever you are, alto sopranos and tenors, you're going to sing this to the top of your lungs. The top. Nobody sings the B section to the top of their lungs. They wait for the hook. It's the hook because the hook is only poison. Yeah. You know what?

That is the chorus. But what draws you in is that pre-chorus. Fucking B-section, man. That's amazing. The energy change. It is, like, in retrospect, like, when you think about a course, you're usually building to it, and that's the peak. That's the pinnacle.

But in this case, we had the peak in the pre, and then we kind of chilled out a little bit in the chorus. We got a little, we got laid back a little bit. Layback in Mello, right? In the original version. And then another called out Never Trust the Big Button in a smile. But you know, there's a whole rap in this song.

Can we hear some of the raps? Let's hear it. It sure is. Here's DeVos lap. Rap. DeVos rap. I said that because there's the low pro ho moment. It's some scary moments in this rap.

You're ready? You ready? Poison deadly, moving and slow. Looking for a mellow fellow like DeVoe getting paid. Layed so better lay low. Scheming on Hots' money and the heart. show. The little pro-ho shall be cut like an afro. So what you're saying, huh?

She's a winner to you, but I know she's a loser. How do you know? Me and a crew used to do her. So, okay, let's talk about. We have to talk about that. The elephant in the room. We have to talk about the elephant in the room. You know, she's a loser? It's not very nice. It's not very nice this song.

Just be glad we're not doing do-mey. Hey, that's all my age worse. me and the crew. Who wrote the rap? Who wrote the rap? So there's a little bit of controversy about that. I found a quote, I mean, it's an interview that's out there and widely circulated. So Kwamei says that... Oh, with the Pocodots.

He says that he got the demo. He said, quote, unquote, it sounded terrible to me. Bivens gave him the demo, and he said, sounded terrible. And he's like, well, where did the raps go? And Bivens said, you know, in the empty spaces and stuff. And so, Kwame said, he was with Dana Dane and his friend Dougie, I'm not sure. if that was. Maybe Dougie Fresh. I'm right store. And he goes, look, I just need some rhymes in it.

And Dana was like, I can write some rhymes for that. Dougie was rapper too. So basically, Kwame and Dana Dane and a handful of other people sat in the car and wrote the rap apparently. But they're also uncredited. I just found this out because I found an interview where he talks about it. I just want to say for the, you know, just for

the record, I don't think she's a loser. We agree. Sure. I think she's sure about the decisions that she wants to make in her life. Absolutely. She decided everyone in the crew deserves to know. Biblical knowledge. We agree.

We agree. Live how you want to live. Be free. The music is so good. So good. Is there anything else out of the vocals? With a little bit of time that we have, do you want to play us maybe something from the keys? Sure.

Oh, yeah, yeah. This is a very minimal sparse song. So you've actually heard like 80% of the sound at this point that isn't the vocals. There are three synth parts, but they only happen in the verse, pre-chorus and chorus. You never hear them at the same time. So in the verse, this is what you hear. This is the beats, the bass, and the vocals, and this. That's it.

It's just this kind of classic. I think this is M1. I think it's a Korg, M1. What do you know about a Korg, M-1? I know a little bit about Kourg M-1. And I think this baseline, But we almost forgot about the baseline. That's insane.

I'll play the baseline. Yeah. What am I thinking? You can't talk about this song with the baseline. Go. It's shaking the room as you want. This makes me so happy. And if you're going to play...

I mean, you can't help but move to that. You know what I mean? Running Man, cabbage patch. But don't forget that's not even the best part of the baseline. No, no, no, no, no. I know. We all know... This is the best part of the song.

Fight me. Yeah. Okay. Can we point out? Yeah. For, you know, for his music guys in here with relative a perfect pitch. I'm so glad you're, I know what you're about to say. I'm so glad you bring it up.

That that top 808 is out of key. So here's what I think happened. I speculated. This is a little speculation, but one of my rabbit holes led me to this production forum where a guy who doesn't name himself says, hey, I worked on that record. Here's what they did. So with that, you know, caveat in mind, I agree with you that do-dun-dun-da, that's a little sharp because this is also, I think, the 808.

pitched imperfectly because it's the year that it is. And it only shows up at the top maybe. And you're playing it on an MPC, not a keyboard. They're playing it on the pads of an MPC, which is a drum machine. That was going to be my question. I was like, is there somebody playing the guitar? No, no, no.

They're just pitching the sample to the different pads of this drum machine, and they got to dun, dun, dun, it's a little sharp, but who cares? In the mix, you don't even notice it. But you notice it, that's really impressive. But it's awesome. But the other part you says, who cares? But it doesn't matter. We're already dancing.

I'm drunk. Like, am I really going to call out to 808? Had you noticed that before, by the way, I'm curious. No, absolutely not. I never did either. I'm just hearing this for the first time. That's another thing that I love about the show is we go back to these old songs,

and it reminds me, reminds all the producers and songwriters. Perfection is not freaking that important. Perfection is not... Perfection is not linear. Perfection is a combination of things to come together to do the right thing. A bunch of things that are imperfect. Like, it won't be the perfect.

lyric, not the perfect track, not the perfect melody, not the perfect words. But for some reason, all of these things together at one time do something really special. The perfection is that the way they came together, it was meant to be that way. But all of the

component parts have these little, like, sloppy timing, rhythmic, imperfections. One of the things that we love about this show is that when you get into the stems, you notice what things they like bury in the mix, things that get completely left out. It doesn't matter who we talk about. Like Prince, let's go crazy

another classic thing. There's so many things that are buried in that mix that you know he was just like, ugh, but that imperfect. Or in the red or distorted or too loud, too soft. It's let's go crazy by Prince

and there's nothing wrong with it. You know, in spite of... So that sort of the lesson to producers and songwriters working today is just because your tool set allows you to like within an inch of its life, tune it, perfect it, put it on the grid.

That isn't going to necessarily make it better. It might actually make it worse. Yeah. It's James Brown. It's James Brown. James Brown. Does it feel good? If it feels good.

Does it sound good? Then it is good. I just rewatch Hot Tug, the Eddie Murphy. It's so good. It's going to make you sweat. Check it's hot. We want to say something about it. We should just talk about that for the next 10 minutes.

We want to talk about the legacy of BBD. And you said something back here when we were in hair and makeup and you were noticing I was getting my eyebrows trimmed. Just saying. You're nice. Perfect eyebrows. How could you, how, you're on tour with Tyrese.

That's the most normal thing you're going to see all day. Come on, I love Tyrese. Tyrese, don't fight me. Here's my question. That's my friend.

It's my friend. Tyrese and genuine. None of us are perfect. We come together to do something great. You get to be the straight man. You get to just be like, oh, be in the news.

Listen, you mentioned that this group, BPD, had such an effect on the rest of the 90s. And I wanted you to elaborate on that because I think that they helped R&B evolved to this new level. They influenced a whole generation. I would argue that

Boyce to Men, Drew Hill, Jodice, like all of them sort of got a little piece of that BBD in what they did. So can you just say that for our listeners? Well, I think it was two things is it was Edge. You didn't know that melody, really dope and sweet melody could exist with that sort of edge all at the same time. Driving me out of my mind.

Like that's, it was sweet. But then drums are coming in. But then everything under. It's hard. Yeah. And dirty. It was mugging you. But off giving you a rose at the same time.

You were giving her a rose, but you would be mugging her. You're like, you were good tonight. You look good tonight. Hey, this for you. It made you understand that these things could co-exist. And so that gave us kind of superiority in a sense, which is why we were dominating so crazy because we combined those things so well that R&B and hip-hop.

I mean, go back to Keith's sweat. Like, with the new Jack swing and I want to... So glad you brought that up. Like, come on, you. You're the Fad. You're the funk on that? Like, he's not smiling when he's saying, I want to. Like, all of that.

Like, we were able to be, it's this form of aggressive, sexy that we were able to own, which I think dominates. It's like another color, though. It's like, you know, if they were sort of separated before, like, you have, like, a new combination. Yeah. For the palette of sonic combinations. If we go to Jodacy, you know what I'm saying? Like, like, forever, my lady. Why is he saying it so loud?

It's like a dream. I'm holding you close, keeping you warm. I'm right next to you. Shut up. Why is he yelling like that? He was yelling. Why is he yelling? You end up.

So it's like this, this level. They did lately on unplug. with a, like, there's a man in which like they took a Stevie Wonder song. And they went there with the aggressive. It is a aggressive sexy. Aggressive sexy. Write a song called aggressive sexy.

I'll try. Okay. I'll try. Do we want to say anything about Michael Bivens his role as an ANR? Do we have time for that? Yeah. I think Michael Bivens doesn't always get like recognized.

It's like he kind of said like he did another bad creation. Obviously had huge success. with boys to men, you know? And you had a story that I did not know because quickly the, because people don't realize jump by Chris Cross is technically a disc track. Right.

Like it starts off, don't try to compare us to another bad little fad. Like apparently Jermaine DePri and Michael Bivens were always like this. Yeah, I know. They got a great interview recently on the Brexas Club

where Bivens is talking about how he's trying to take credit and maybe rightfully so. I don't mean like to imply otherwise. But like the backwards thing that Chris Cross made famous, he's calling attention to the fact that on the cover of the single of the sorry of this album he's wearing the new edition

jacket backwards and that was 1990 and crisscross is 91 so he's out there going he's like even to this day on the breakfast club like recently he's like I'm the one who invented the backwards I brought that style in in the mainstream so he's he was a fashion innovator as well as like mixing genres and everything else wow yeah who did we who do I had something to add to that Pooh Bear, one of the greatest songwriters of our generation, was a rapper. And he was friends with a couple of guys from Another Bad Creation. He was a fanatic of Another Bad Creation, loved them to death. And when Chris Cross came out with this song, dissing Another Bad Creation, he wrote a diss back to them.

Right? Okay. And let his friend, who's in ABC, hear his rap. His friend kept saying, hey, man, say that rap again? Mind you there in seventh grade. Say that rap again? Oh, okay, that's good. Could you say it one more time?

He looks up, no, it was before that. He looks up and he's listening to it. One of his friends comes to and say, hey, remember that rap you used to say? He's like, yeah, he said, oh. that's another bad creation. They got your rap. What? Their rap that they're rapping

to go back on the compilation, the Biv10 compilation, whatever the Bif 10, yeah, yeah. The compilation, that song dissing Chris Crossback, Poo Bear wrote the rap. No. That's wild. That's wild.

He's a seventh grader. It was stolen. How? From him. He said they just disappeared. He said they were his friends. And then all of a sudden, sudden they disappeared.

Couldn't find him. And his rap shows up. But he's in seventh grade. He's like, I don't know what to do. My rap is on an album. I don't know about lawyers and publishing and shit like that. It's like, oh, well, it's just gone. He's like, and honestly, I didn't even tell anybody.

That's going to come up on the Army Money podcast. He'll tell the full story. But when you said that I had to interject. That's funny about that story. And the other one, the one I just told you about the Kwame. It's like, at this time was like rap still like hard to do? You had a hard time writing rap, so they needed help from seventh graders. It was a car full of Dana Dane.

I'm the father of a seventh grader, and he's written no rap. So I can't really respect him. Get it together, cow. Get it together. You can't respect him. We're more than a decade into rap at this point. It's still hard to do. What's happening?

I will say, I found out the other day that my seventh grader actually does have a song on Spotify. Yeah, like, he loaded it up and everything, young posh. That's a great name. Young posh. We can cut this if we want. Is your son? Young Posh is my son. He's going to be so mad because he thinks that song is unfinished.

I guess his teacher put it up on Spotify. Anyway, that is neither here nor there. Shout out to Young Posh. Shout out to the seventh grade rappers. He's going to be so mad. He's going to be so mad. Sorry, son. Listen, hey, before we end the show, we want to play a game with you, sir.

Yep. You've said some wild stuff recently. Yes, I'm a wild singer. When you appeared on the Stephen A. Smith Show, you argued that, quote, you know what's coming. Chris Brown is better than. Michael Jackson. I said it with my chest. Do we have that clip?

Do we have that clip? Chris Brown is in fact better than Michael Jackson. What? Do you understand what you're saying? Take, do you understand what you're saying, my man? I'm mean, you admire, you're associated with music, my brother.

You made the man speech. You made him so happy. That is Stevie N. Smith so happy. He could not get any words out. He was flabbergasted. He couldn't believe I said it. He couldn't believe I stood on it. Well, I was going to say.

This went viral. People cared a lot. The internet got heated up. Just for our audience here and anyone who may be upset, is there anything you want to say to back up that tape? Uh-oh. Here's what I will say. The only piece that I will probably retract

because I was breaking it down in gifts. The only piece that I'll probably retract that I said, that I said Chris was a better songwriter. And I want to take that part. I want to scale that part back. I think in terms of songwriting, they're equally as great. Because Chris Brown is credited on pretty much

every top 10, top 20 record he has as a songwriter or a producer. And Michael, to his credit, is credited on Billy Jean and some other iconics, We Are the World shit. So he's, as a writer, he's no Rudy Poo. He's a real guy.

So I can't. When you listen to those Michael demos where he's like just scatting out Billy Jean and some of these other great hits, you're like, oh, I thought, people weren't just coming to Michael with just a song written in Quincy Jones and the Wood. No, he, Michael was coming up with him. He was orchestrating.

He didn't write thriller. But, you know. But it started us. Right, Temperton. Temperton, yeah, from Heat Wave. Timberton is a guy who was also very very slept on. Michael had the best of the best at all times,

but that started because he was such a prodigy of a human being. Like he was already something special by the age of nine, right? And so he was already successful by the age of nine, TV show, music, animation. He was already that. So the resources that were available to him were just unlimited. Anything Michael could think of, I'm just going to call John Landis. Like, that's the equivalent of saying, let me call Stephen Spielberg and make a movie. A multi-million dollar music video.

A music video is that. Not even a movie. Like, that's just, people don't have that at the disposal. So, again, if we're going gift for gift, then this is just what I believe. I believe Chris Brown is a better singer because of evolution. Now, if Michael Jackson had grew up in the church, would he be as acrobatic as Chris Brown? Probably, because he would have learned that thing. But that wasn't his thing.

Did Michael create a vocal nuance that became his own? Absolutely, but that was a combination of James Brown and some other pieces. Michael made his voice an instrument rather than... Would there be a Chris Brown without a Michael Jackson, though? So now you're going to the greatness and influence. That's not what I'm arguing. Fair point. No one will ever be...

You're just saying sheer talent. Gift for gift. No one will ever be greater than Michael Jackson. We will never scratch this. I don't know if we'll ever see that again. We will never. We got the room back. Never.

But I think he's about to lose the room because we're going to play a game called. Maybe you deserve the smoke. We're going to name a category and you're going to tell us who's better in that category. Oh, shit. You've got 30 seconds to come up with the answer and say why. Why is it got to be a time? Why can't it just? Because this is, because the artifice, bro.

We got to go for it. Okay. Here we go. First question, who's got the best voice, Brandy or Monica? Brandy. Yeah, we're going there. Monica's my sis. I love her.

I love both of them. Monica is the best voice? I used to ride listening to Brandy's first album. I used to drive every day listening to that album. Every day. Vocal. Okay, sorry. Moving on.

Who's the best dancer? Beyonce or Janet? Janet. Want to elaborate? I don't think I have to. Okay. I can do this all day. This should have the whole show.

Can I ask this next one? Yeah, yeah, go for it. All right. Who's got the better catalog? DeAngelo or Maxwell? Shit. Easy. DeAngelo.

Maxwell calls up, man. Did we lose the room? What are the thoughts? What do y'all think? What do we think here? He said, DeAngelo's got the better catalog. If you agree, clap your hands. If you disagree, boo this man.

I'm unfazed. I'm so unfazed by that. Maybe you want to give a quick answer why you think that. I will say this. Untitled, how does it feel is one of the best R&B songs ever. Yes. Ever.

You add Raphael Sadiq and DiAngelo, and you put them in the same room, and no one else, nobody on this earth can fuck with them. It is just a rap. And you got to, like, I want you to, I want you to A and B what you think Maxwell's, I love Maxwell, let me, don't do anything like that. That's, I want you to A and B what you think Maxwell's best song is in your mind, and then play

Untitled, How Does It Feel? I want you to play all six minutes. And you tell me how you feel. I heard a woman's worth over it. After you listen to both those songs. This should have been its own show, but Tank, I just want to thank you for coming on one song, joining us here in Vegas. Everyone, give it up for Tay.

Make some noise for Tang. Give it up a tag. Shout out to Resorts World for hosting. Can I say this? Yes. You guys are dope, man. Oh, thank you, man. You guys are really fucking dope, bro.

Thank you. Really fucking dope. Like, this is awesome, bro. I love this. We just like to get together and nerd out about some music. And that's what's what's missing. Like, the reason we started our podcast

was for the information, the stories, and not the shock value and all the, and your baby mama said that you ain't shit. Like who, that has nothing to do with, she didn't know what she's talking. I've been there.

We'll talk. But, you know, you got to, you got to give the future. You got to give them bullet points. You got to give them the history so that they are able to figure out where and how they play a part in taking what.

But we do now to the next level. And what you guys are doing is extremely important, man. And thank you. Oh, man. Thank you so much. Give it up for Tank again. Hey, can we put our takes graphic up here real quick? Tell the people how they can support you and how we can, you know, support R&B money.

I would like for you to subscribe to the R&B money podcast, which is the authority on all things R&B. As we continue to give information the same way these guys are giving information, we got Dionne Warwick coming up. this week, which is probably she is, she's the bridge. She's the reason why we're here. She's it. She's fantastic. She's it.

She went on a string of 15 years of just hit records. I can't wait to hear that. I would be remiss if I didn't say we have one more thing we want to do. Talk to me. Today is luxury's birthday. Uh-oh. It's a luxury that we get to hang out with you.

Can we all sing happy birthday to luxury, everybody? Can we all get the close sister some money? One, two, three. Happy birthday to you. You all should. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday, dear luxury. Happy birthday to you.

Oh, you guys are, that's really sweet. Thank you. Yeah. And everybody, one more time. giving up for Tate. Thank you, Tate. And thank you, One Song Nation, for coming out to see us.

Give yourself one more round of applause.