One Song - Boyz II Men's "Motownphilly" w Shawn Stockman: Part Two

Episode Date: December 18, 2025

Is “Motownphilly” one of the most doo-wop-influenced R&B tracks of all time? In part two of their Boyz II Men deep dive, Diallo and LUXXURY explore the group’s iconic vocals for “Motownphilly���, the slow-jam legacy of Boyz II Men and the current climate of R&B music. One Song Spotify Playlist Songs Discussed: “Motownphilly” - Boyz II Men “Can’t Get Enough Of Your Love, Bab” - Barry White “Teddy’s Jam” - Guy “Can You Stand The Rain” - New Edition “It’s So Hard To Say Goodbye To Yesterday” - G.C. Cameron “End Of The Road” - Boyz II Men “Doin’ Just Fine” - Boyz II Men Get your wardrobe sorted and your gift list handled with Quince. Don't wait! Go to Quince.com/ONESONG for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Get last-minute hosting essentials, gifts for all your loved ones, and decor to celebrate the holidays for WAY less. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

And I listen to this. There's a part. Big. Check this out. Did you hear that? Bet? Bet. Did you hear that?

No. We sang Can You Stand a Rain to Biv when we first met him? Right. So. The New Edition Classic. Yeah, the New Edition Classic. So the Bat is something from another cut, another part that we did. It was Bad-doo.

That didn't get muted. Badu. Wow. So you originally sang that in this part. Can you stand the rain? Luxury, we are back for part two of our deep dive into Boys to Man and Motown Philly. Last time, we talked about the origins of the song. Today, we're getting into the good stuff, the stacked vocal arrangements, the harmonies, the lyrics,

and of course, the slow jams that came after today's song. And joining us once again is the man who knows those harmonies better than anyone, the group's high tenor and four-time Grammy winner, Sean Stockman. We're talking one song, and that song is Motown, Philly, back again by Boys to Min. I'm actor, writer, director, and sometimes DJ Diallo Riddle. And I'm producer, DJ, songwriter, and musicologist luxury, aka the guy who whispers, interpolation. And this is one song.

The show where we break down the stems and stories behind iconic songs across genres, telling you why they deserve one more listen. You will hear these songs like you've never heard them before, And you can watch one song on YouTube and Spotify, so many places. While you're there, please like and subscribe. So, Sean, let's pick up where we left off. We talked a bit about your early days and boys to men, the concept and the beat behind Motown Philly,

but now it's time to focus in, lock in on these vocals. Can you tell us how you and the guys develop the vocal arrangements for Motown Philly? Because it seems like a Herculane, like what is the division of labor when it comes to really arranging the song? Well, first we had to understand in our minds what Motown Philly meant to us. And to be very particular, Nate wrote the first verse I wrote the second. And paint the picture. Are you together in a room? You've heard the beat. You've gone away.

We got an hour to go. We're in studio four in Philadelphia. Are you working together or are you kind of separate for your own verses? Kind of a little bit of both. Okay. Nate wrote the first part, brought it to me. So you go, okay, I got it. And then I wrote the second verse.

And that's pretty much a lot of times it's how we do it. Like we let one guy kind of get his ideas out. We might have an idea to throw, you know, take that word out, add this, whatever. But for the most part, it's his idea. And then the same thing that went for me. And you're starting for the beat that you heard and the title Motown, Philly, or even just the concept. Yeah, the concept and the beat.

Okay. Like the concept came first. Dallas played the beat, we wrote to the beat. And do you have a melody in mind or you haven't? No. I mean, it's literally, yeah, literally alchemy. Like, you know, it was like, we heard it. Nate's listening and he just kind of,

oh, going on and then, and then, and he just started. So he's doing them both at the same time. Yeah, like, you know, he's, yeah, he's kind of humming and, you know, you know, kind of like how lyrics form, writes it down. and then because Biv also wanted to incorporate ABC and Belle Biv DeVoe. So Nate said, okay, Sam, boys, de man, ABC, BVD, the East Coast family.

Like, he wrote that. Like, never skipped the beat. Like, you know, he's just going on his thing, you know, as the great songwriter that he is. And he's just kind of like formulating what the song is about, basically breaking down the story in the first verse. He's letting you know what's going on, who it's for, who it's about,

you know, who it represents, which is the city of Philadelphia. Like, so you know all of these things within the verse and the bridge. And we wrote the bridge together. Back in school, we used to dream about this every day. Could it really happen? I do dreams fatal. Like, really just kind of putting ourselves into how we were thinking. Then we started singing and they said it's, that's really what happened.

Like when we started singing, people started to like how we sounded. So we started a group. And here we are. Like, like, it really, like, it really was, so literal. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, like, sitting across the table, just listening, like, sing, like, like, throwing ideas out to Yeah, yeah, and responding. Like, you know, just kind of playing with, with, with ideas and kicking it just for you, you know what I mean, like, that's what it was. And then, Nate and I wrote the chorus,

Motown, Philly, back again. But verses came first and then the chorus. Yeah, like, like, you know, honestly, I don't know how, which part came first. Okay. It was just more so like we were just patching ideas together, him and I, and just kind of say, all right, cool, that sounds dope. Yeah, doing our little ease calls. You know what I mean? We were kind of having fun. Yeah. Boys, two men going off, not too hard, not to describing who we are.

Like, it is literally a description and a breakdown of who we are, where we came from, who we down with, how we got discovered in four minutes. I mean, it's simplicity cannot be overstated in the sense that, like, the Beatles never came out with this song. They never did like, we're from Liverpool. And we're from Liverpool, way. We got discovered. That never happened. We don't discover the Liverpool.

We're sorry to our friend Pete Best. So, I mean, you know, it's, it really was one of those stars-aligning type of moments. Yeah. Being in that studio immersed. in who we were and how we wanted to represent ourselves. Well, without further ado, let's dive into the vocals. My friend, take us back to that studio and these wonderful singers.

Where do you wanna start with this one? It's long overdue, but now Philly slamming Boys to men, ABC, B, B, D. The East Coast family never skipped a beat. Nah. Okay. So that was also thought about of trying to incorporate Mike. Yeah.

Yeah. Mike. You were thinking, how do we get him in? Shout out to McCary because McCary was the difference with everything. He separated us from everybody else that was a group back there. Having the base. He was a real base. Yeah.

Opposed to other people who try to talk like this. Like, he spoke like that. That's his regular voice. That's his regular fucking voice. Like, when he would talk, the shit would rumble. Because he was a little, he was really a bass. Like, so. He was the friend you want to, like, record on your outgoing message on your answering machine.

100%. Like, H. Diallo. Yeah, yeah. My voice, but that's the voice I want going out to the world. Yes. But you see how you had to. Like that he just spoke like that. And that's what he was the.

factor. He was the one that really made us stand out. And Grimes hadn't really had that kind of like bassy guy in the group since like the 70s. That's, yeah. Well, there was some of that in the 70s. There was some of that in the 70s. Yeah, yeah.

Well, but I'm talking specifically about the guy in the 70s who would talk and be like, hey, girl. Oh, like the Barry White kind of thing. Right. Yeah. It was like a guy who came in and spoke during the song. Yes, Barry White's voice was that voice. It doesn't seem to me like it's enough. It's just not enough.

It's just not enough. Michael McCarrie's voice was that voice, like Melvin from the Temptations. That's what I'm thinking about. Melvin from, yes. So, you know, that's the, that's the, he really made it, and we knew, because we knew what he was doing to the girls in high school.

So we had to incorporate the, no, you know, that. Did you write those lines, the filling cheese steak line for him to say? Yeah. And all the filly steaks you can eat, yeah. Yeah, and Bibb helped with that, too. Like, he was like, Yeah, just incorporate. Like, again, the Philly Cheesesteak.

Yeah. We're from Philadelphia. Yeah, a keystone component of Philly. I had never been there before, but all of a sudden I'm like, oh, yeah, South Street. Yeah, I know where that is. South Street. The cheese steak. You know what I'm saying?

You planted a so many flags. Yes. We let everybody know what was popping within the first verse. I have to ask you, because it happens halfway through. This particular harmony moment. Boy is the man, ABC, B, B, D. That is an unusual harmony stack. I'm very curious how you came up with your harmony stacks.

We never thought traditionally. Okay. Like, we approach harmonies not by technique, but by how it feels, period. It could be the weirdest note by itself. And we would go in and we would sing something that a lot of people in the booth would kind of like sit there. What the hell is he doing? until you blend the other four. First of all, who is singing this?

Is this you and Nate? Me and Nate. Okay. It's just two parts. That's an interval. And when you play it with the music, it makes sense. Yeah. Mom do, and now do these salmon, boy, boy, seven,

ABC, B, B, D. It's a blues note. You're right that it is a blues. It's a tritone. Yes. Which we've talked about many times on this show. This is this dissonant moment theoretically. By music theory standards.

But in actuality, in practice, it sounds really perfect because it's unusual and then it resolves right away. Right. Very satisfactory. Finally. Yes. And that's the, and that's purpose. That was on purpose too because you can't hang on to that note too long or else it's going to. While it's happening, it's like tense.

Yes. Yes. And it was just, and it added emphasis to the names. Boystam in ABC, B, B, D. So it gave that, that moment. Yeah. and then got off of it. And that becomes an important moment as we go deeper into the SEMS.

We're going to hear that again. But its recap is done very in a very modern, with a modern production touch. Yes. I'm just laying the groundwork for what we're going to be hearing later. Absolutely. So, but are you the high note in the stack? Yes. Okay.

Did you tend to be the high note consistently, or did it change sort of based on the song or based on the moment? For the most part. I mean, you're usually the highest note here. sometimes do, because Nate's kind of like a freaking Swiss Army knife. Like he could go high, he could go low, he could go mid. I feel like sometimes he's like straight like alto, maybe even. He's baritone.

Baritone. He's like a baritone base sometimes. He laid a lot of Mike's bass parts that he would then copy. When we go out and sing in concert now, who does the bass? Nate does. But a lot of times we don't need the base because it's just the three of us. And then sometimes our vocals are in the biopies. So we'll have like opposed to having background singers. We just had our own voices.

Got it. Playing the backgrounds and then we would play in between. Like because the vocals are already there, like if you ever see one of our shows, I'll throw in a note because the original note is already there. So I can dab. Oh, I'll just throw that in. Jump on top.

And then everybody in the group does the same. All right. Well, let's listen to the chorus, which actually begins the song. And then let's talk about it because many, many more questions to come about the creation of this important sound stack. Here it is. This is, by the way, all four of you, right, in this chorus?

Motown, Philly back again. Doing a little east coast swing. Boys and men going off. Actually, it's just three of us. Okay. There's no basis. Nope. Doing a little east, doing a little east.

Doing a little east goes swing. Mike's not in there. That's the three. It's not in there. Yeah. And you go between the unison. with all three of you into the stack back and forth like that? Yep.

That was kind of like our style in a sense of emphasizing one phrase, breaking off, emphasizing one phrase, breaking off. And it kind of gave each part its own moment. So now you're able to hear every word and every phrase clearer because we gave its own identity. It makes the stack more exciting. you hear it briefly. 100%.

And then you don't hear it and you miss it. Yes. Then there it is again. Yes. Like we come from a school of a song having dynamics and not sounding just one monochromatic, monotone way. Again, another reason why music today sounds a way that it doesn't sound like back in the day. Because we were very key on soft, loud, high, low, up. down, left, right. We occupied the space.

How can you use all those choices to make things interesting and dynamic? Well, it's really just, again, that is more so about what we hear at that moment. Nothing should get in a way of anything else going on in a track or else it's useless. How did you know this so early on, given this is one of your first, or not your first recording moment? Is that something you learned? I just think, and this is not being pretentious at all. I think this is just our gift.

It was our ability to, because we were brought up in such an enriched city, listening to Gamble and Huff, the Motown sound, Jam and Lewis, Babyface, Teddy Riley, all of those producers who did that for us as we were listening in playing in the schoolyards and in the streets, they were taking us to school. You were absorbing what they were doing. We were absorbing.

Not just as listeners, though, but as practitioners. Since you were also vocalizing, you could internalize the lesson. You could feel what it was. So you would go home after you're listening to something, and because you loved it so much, you sang it over and over and over again. And then as you grew older,

your skills honed in more on deeper listening. So now I'm like, okay, I hear that now because I've grown a little bit musically. So you are able to break down things a little bit better. So by the time it took time. And then we all sang in choirs. So it was important for us to everybody to know each other's parts.

So I'm listening to not just my part, I'm listening to the soprano. I'm listening to the bass. I'm listening to the baritone. I'm listening to the alto, second soprano, second out. So I'm hearing all of these. We're all hearing these things in saying, oh, this is what makes up harmony.

So the fact of you doing it, the fact of you singing it actively, it's sort of like in writing, I think, like Hemingway and Joan Diddy and all these writers famously talk about how they would take their favorite books and retype them. Yes. And that's how you become a good, a good, or it's a starting point to become a writer.

It's to internalize the feeling of what these other things you like are doing, and how they're doing it. And with music, you can do the same thing. You become a clever thief. You become a clever thief. In a sense of seeing or rather hearing something that somebody did and saying, okay, I heard that. Now I'm going to take that and then add this though.

Totally different. And the piano, for example, or a guitar or any instrument that plays more than one note is a prime example of that. You play a major and you play a minor. It's different. And you play a diminish. Different. Play augmented. Different.

But each of those is just one note changing. That's it. So a lot of times it's just those nuances musically. That's what makes music so amazing because it doesn't take a lot. It never ceases to amaze me that we're. working with, you know, eight to 12 notes in any given time. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. Right. So, so the way you're able to make it different is not just the notes you play, you change, but where you place it. And then how many times you do it or how many times you don't do it.

And all those other, like, it's all in the mind of the creator. And no small thing is the actual voice, too, of the singer. I think that's the most underrated thing. This show, we're all about breaking it down and we can find commonalities, core changes, elements, beats 808s. But at the end of the day, the individual voice of the performer. And I mean literal voice like you, the singer, Sean Stockman, but also the fingers of Adelaus Austin and the keyboard. You know, the performances are as unique as a thumbprint. And you're right.

There are better people that can probably better articulate it better than I. But it's really about, and this has always been our thing, the group, I'm speaking on behalf of the guys, that we might not have been the most technically sound when it comes to oh, this is a B-flat-9 with a... It doesn't matter. It didn't matter to us. Like, we just, okay, I like this note.

In your head, you'd hear the note. We hear it. Yeah. So, and we go, yeah, that's dope. I love that. Keep that. And then we will move on. Your artistic instinct is far more important than any amount of music theory or, you know, schooling, basically.

Street smarts keeps you alive. And that's pretty much... In so many ways. Like, you can be the smartest person in the room bookwise. But if you don't know how to communicate, your vision, your dream, whatever your idea is, no matter how smart bookwise you are, it doesn't matter because no one's understanding where you're coming from. I've lived a brother. Yeah.

I've lived that. Yeah. It's very important to know how to communicate. A lot of people don't know this story. Like when we recorded Cooley High Harmony, we went in to mix it and none of the songs sounded the same. In the sound right. So actually what sold 11 May records were our demos. Those are all demos.

So you went backwards to earlier mixes? Yeah. Like, yeah. That mix of Motown Philly was the demo. Like so after we recorded it, you lived with it. while it just has such a vibe. Chasing the demo. Yeah.

When I think about it, from what I remember, it just didn't pop. Like, it was almost too perfect. Yeah. Too smooth. Yeah. And it took away the grit of what Cooley High Harmony, the little bit of what it had on those songs.

You can almost say in the too polished version of the song, not too hard, but too small. But too soft. I didn't land the plane on the floor. Right, right. Right, right. Trying to get it's a great choice. I was with you.

I was with you. I was with you. I'm going to say it just so we have, you know, you can almost say that the version that they had before the fun. No, no. It's never coming back. It's never coming back. You can almost say that that one version of the song was not too hard, but too soft. That's good idea.

We got it. I like the first version. See, we like the demo better. Yeah, yeah. I like the demo better. We're chasing the demo. It happens in real life, too. It's all organic.

It was authentic that guy. Yeah, man. Then it got too polished. Let's get to the pre-course because I think this is one of those moments where we get to build the tension in the song. And it's one of my favorite parts. Let's hear a little bit of the pre-course. Back in school, we used to dream about this every day. Could it really happen?

But the dream just fade away. Then we started singing and they said it sound smooth. A pre-course, ladies and gentlemen, is a component that bridges the verse to the chorus, which is called the pre-course. something that again, music these days are missing. It changes it and it changes the song at the same time keeping it the same which keeps people locked into, okay, what's coming next? All a song is is a four-minute movie.

So you have to keep people engaged in the song. Do you remember the mindset and how this prequarse was written? Well, it was like, okay, We told that part, the music changed. Now what do we say? Because we can't stay on the same subject because the music changed. So we have to change. So what else happened?

Back in school, we used to dream about this every day. Did someone say that out loud? And the other one was like, that's it. I mean, in so many words, like, we thought about, like, well, what do we think about? What is this moment? Because we were trying to encompass the moment of, being in this studio working with this

hero of ours that's in this heroic group of ours that we loved rather and it's a true story it's based on a true story back in school we used to dream about this every day

could it really happen or do dreams fade away we were very much it's so direct yeah yeah it's it's really just how we felt like man we would sit

and we would just dream about this we would pray about it we would like man it would be so great if we just kind of just make this something. But I think it's actually super on brand because, you know, as a person, maybe it's

because I was still in school. You know what I mean? Like, you know, you set up Philadelphia so well and the Motown of it all. But then you're like, back in school, like, you're like, oh, he's in school like me. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like it's just more of that.

And we didn't really say it in the first episode, if you haven't listened yet, please go back and listen to it again. We didn't really talk about it, but you said that you and I, we were both influenced by like the public enemy and the black pride. Just being a good story. student back in those days was like our own little like mini revolution because, you know,

we were not, even though there's a zian boys to men, we were not the boys in the hood. Like we were in some ways we were the ones who were like trying to, we were reading comic books. We were trying to get good grades. And like that was our form of rebellion was being a good student. So I'd argue that that idea of like you guys are dressed like you were in college, you're talking about back in school. Yeah. You know, like I think it's all on brand for like the complete image that you guys were.

present to you because that's who you were. Yeah. For the most part, we were pretty good kids. Like, I mean, like, we weren't troublemakers. Like I said, we weren't stick up kids. We weren't drug dealers or anything like that. And although we knew friends that were. Sure. And we hung around those guys. I did not.

Yeah, yeah. But it just wasn't the route we took. Exactly. But we grew up around it. And we had to put it plainly bigger aspirations. Absolutely. There's a harmony part, which I muted just so we could hear the isolated vocals. Let's play it and then talk about it really. I think I know what you're going to do.

Oh yeah. This is an important part. It's also a setup for something that comes back a little bit later. Just that little harmonized moment. I hear Mike, Mike's back for that one, right? He's at the very bottom. Yeah, one note. Classic. Do you remember the moment where you decided to harmonize that line? Just that one phrase? Well, it just made sense. Because then we started singing. It was part of Again, it really didn't, we didn't try to overthink this shit. Is Dallas producing you or this is all you producing yourself with these choices? And this is what a lot of people don't tend to understand. Not saying that Dallas didn't produce our vocals.

You know, for the most part, he definitely did, but not really. Like a lot of the stuff that we did, we were able to do it on our own. Like we arranged the harmonies. We arranged the vocals and who sang what and, you know, all those other things. A lot of this stuff, again, Dallas helped for sure. But a lot of people don't understand that we produce those records just as much as he did. And brought out the music that, you know, you hear from that album. Let's hear a little bit of verse two.

Iconic moment of the song. Live and direct from Philly town. We're rapping, hype, and we can get down. We are ready to go. So now the world will know that we flow. That was like such a 80s, 90s. Like, because Aaron Hall used to do that. Yeah, Aaron Hall, exactly.

You know what I was there? Like, he would do. Yeah. Like, that was such a 90s-esque type of riff. So, yeah. He had to throw it. Jam. Yeah.

All that. Yeah. So, yeah. Jam. Titty jam for me. So that was, that was a nod to. Totally. Mr. Aaron Hall.

And I was hearing in the dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb. It's more explicit when it's isolated. That is definitely 30s jazz. For sure. For sure. For sure. For sure. For sure.

And that was slightly inspired by Take Six. Again, we did terrible renditions of those guys. They were aliens to us. But we tried our best to try to emulate as much as we could. Take Six, by the way, they were kind of a gospel group. They were. I feel like they had a lot of crossover appeal, at least at Black Radio. 100%.

Yeah, yeah. A lot of their songs could have been that mid-range secular type of song. You're the biggest part of me? That's the... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, absolutely. In a song full of memorable moments, the vocal breakdown is perhaps one of the most famous moments in the song. Let's hear that.

Maybe among the most famous 10 seconds on planet Earth. Known to all who walk this fair sphere. Here it is, isolated for the first time in human history. Yeah. Since it was done. I haven't heard it in a while. Everybody in the studio was singing along, by the way. We're all going to be like, I sang with Sean.

I was hearing a lot of Mr. Sandman that time. I guess you could say that. I mean, we wanted to do something slick. and how about this? If you play the original record Okay. Right? Play the original song

Into that break. I'm going to show you something. All right, here we go. A lot of people don't know this or even catch it, but I'm going to let you... One song exclusive. All right, now listen to this.

There's a part. Face. Did you hear that? Bet? Bet. Did you say bet? No. What?

The original part to that section because that was the second part. We didn't originally come up with that part. We sang Can You Stand Arane to Biv when we first met him? Right. So...

The New Edition Classic. Yeah, the New Edition Classic. The Bat is something from another cut, another part that we did. It was... That didn't get muted. Badu... Wow.

So you originally sang that in this part. Can you stand up? That's what we were going to originally do. But it didn't get muted? Just that one moment? Just that one part. No one caught it. What?

And I always hear that and giggle because it's kind of like, you know, that was the beauty. It's a little artifact. Yeah, it's a little artifact, a little Easter egg. But it was supposed to go badoo, bad, so when you hear the bat. That's all you heard. That's amazing. I thought I was just so I said bet. No.

It was a bat. and the rest of it got cut off. And again, we were using two-inch tape back then. So it's harder to get that out of that. Vocals weren't seen on a screen. Absolutely. So you probably, we've probably been able to see that back now and go, oh, we clip that.

So no one noticed it until it was like on wax and in the shops? Yeah. Because again, it was, that's a demo. Right. Oh, that's right. You didn't expect for that. Motown Philly was that. That was the demo.

More work was done to this. And then you're like, no, no, no. Back up to an. earlier version. Yeah, and we just mastered the demo. That's amazing. And that was it. So, yeah, so when you hear the bat, it was from another part or another idea that we scratched. When was the idea then? Was it the last thing you recorded for this song then?

Pretty much. Like, because everything else was done. So we were like, all right, we're going to do on this part. And so we just came up with a doong-d-dun-dun-d-d-d-d-d... Did you decide to replace it so that it wasn't maybe, you know, an interpolation? Interpolation. Well, no, I think we just wasn't feeling it. Okay. Like it was just one of those things where we did it and it was like, oh, we don't like it. So let's just find something better.

Let's do our own thing. Yeah. So do doom, dood. Again, being Take Six fans, that was kind of like our interpretation of what we thought Take Six would do. You know what I'm saying? What would Take Six do? You know, that type of thing. So we kind of came up with our own version or our own.

perspective vocally on what we think would sound cool. So that was it. What's interesting to me is that almost every you know, Boys of Men's song, almost every one of your classics, there's a moment where most of the music drops out and it's just your voices. That's that part for Motown, Philly.

Into the road, into the song, like the music famous that goes out and you guys are just clapping and singing along. You know, like, I feel like that's what you give the fans. You kind of remind us every big song. Oh, by the way, we're singers. These instruments, we are going to remind you that we're singing the song. What people don't remember also, again, the stars aligning, is when we came out and when we first appeared on video soul and BETT with Donnie Simpson. Donnie Simpson.

This was around the time of the Millie Vanilly scandal. You wanted to prove that you were not Millie Vanillae. Exactly. Yeah. So it was perfect. Like, we're not these guys because everybody felt bamboozled by that whole milly-vanilly thing, right?

So, and again, as you remember, that took up a whole new cycle. Like, milly-vanilly, aren't the real vocalist to this, you know, this thing, whatever. So when we came in the scene, we was like, oh, no, we sing. So it gave more emphasis on the fact that when we hit it,

and I had friends that around my same age that watched that episode of us and he said that moment changed everything it made black kids go holy shit

who are these guys you know what I'm saying? So everybody started running out to their friends and say hey let's make a vocal group yeah maybe we did no maybe we did

no and that's that's what it did but that moment in music music history wouldn't have been as, I don't think, as profound as it was if Millie Vanilly didn't do what they did. You were such a strong contrast to such a big story. Exactly. We were the literal control. The CNC Music Factory had the same kind of scandal.

It was like the person in the video wasn't the person singing along. I mean, like, we would be remiss if we didn't mention, like, with your success you had, this is not to say these are biters, so to speak, but like there was an. explosion in Acapella groups and Acapella like Shy came out I mean definitely

if I ever fell in love was a, you know, hit a radio and silk yeah, you could argue, came along with you. So much so. Backstreet Boys and 90 degrees

and all those guys too. And so much so that when those songs, particularly the Shy record came out, everybody thought it was us. I definitely thought it was guys.

Because we were known as the Acapella guys. So, so it really. And your label didn't think that Acapella was going to work on radio,

right? No. Like, when we sang it's so hard to say goodbye yesterday rest in peace Gerald Busby who was the president of Motown at the time we had a really great relationship with him so much so that we could

actually talk to each other like uncle and nephew like it wasn't a record-exec artist's relationship so we was in his office one day and again he was kind of he was very happy about the success of Motown Philly and we told him

hey man we want to drop the Capella record second He was like, it won't work. I was like, what do you mean? He was like, guys, there's no Acapella songs on radio. Who's going to play an Acapella song on the radio? And we was like,

Gerald, trust us. And he trusted us. And he said, all right, cool. Let's just release it. We'll see what happens. And it went double-blatt. To hear Michael Bivens say it, he didn't, he forgot the conversation happened.

And then one day he heard it on the radio or something like that. Oh, y'all got a hit. Yeah. Yeah, it is one of our most successful songs, like ever. And people relate that song, which is a cover of a G.C. Cameron record. It's so hard to say good yesterday. From the movie, Cooley High.

Absolutely. Cooley High from which you get the title of your record. Cooley High Harmony, another concept of Biv. And he just felt like it made sense, we're calling a Cooley High Harmony. let's sing the song that was the most important song of that movie. And that was it. It's a big song. And I was saying somewhere on a dusty VHS tape is footage of me and my singing group

singing that to a bunch of teenagers at Six Flags over Georgia. We had that crowd going nuts. Okay, we're going to take a quick break. But when we get back, we're going to unpack the legacy of boys to men and their record-breaking slow jams. Cold mornings, holiday plans. This is when I need my wardrobe to just work. That's why I'm all about quince.

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You had it. I should have done that. It was right there. If I ever tried it again, it would not work because, as we know, sometimes you've got to chase the demo. Welcome back to One Song. We're here with Sean Stockman. So after the success of Cooley High Harmony,

you and the guys would be called to the studio to record a song for what I consider the second best Eddie Murphy film of all time. Boomerang, no shade, coming to America. What's the first? Oh, come to America. Yeah, that's classic. I can't argue with that so much. But I mean, like, what an outstanding top two for any person. No trading places, no Beverly Hills Coppics going on here.

No, those are in my top five. Those are in my top five. We don't have to argue. We don't have to argue again. Unbelievable. But this was a song for the boomerang soundtrack. And you recorded this with Babyface. the Grammy Award-winning icon.

And this song ended up winning Grammys. It's the slow jam, end of the road. And we were just talking about it. Let's watch a clip from the music video. The Road would go on to beat the record for most weeks at number one. It beat Elvis Presley, Hound Dog. It was at number one for 13 weeks. That the success of that single changed your perspective on the group's direction

and what you thought was possible? Yeah, we went from 5 million records, or six million, which was pretty good to 12. And that's pretty much how that happened. The song was so successful that they had to repackage Culei High Harmony and put that song on the album. And to put it on there. It reached diamond status because of that record.

I mean, I have to ask this question. Like, at some point, like, what do you think was the biggest concert you've ever played? Like, you looked out there and you're like, holy jeep, we are the Beatles. There are four of us. And look at all these people here. Like, you know, what show stands on your brain is like? I think there was a show we did in Trinidad. I think it was 75,000 people.

It's kind of a strange thing to be on stage with a crowd that massive. Because after a while, to some degree, it's like they don't exist. Because it's so big. You can't process it. It's hard to just give the tension to a, everybody. It's just a big mass. It's too many people. So, so you're literally just kind of waving, hoping that people see you and you see them and you're, it's, it's great. It's hard to connect on an individual basis. Well, yeah. 75,000 times. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But at the same time,

because I don't want to squander that because it is a blessing too, to know, to look out into a sea of people. Wow. And to know that they're there for you. I think the second big is from what I remember, and I'm sure the guys could probably give more examples, but I think we did a Made in America, Fest and Philly. Right. I think that was like 100,000 people. It was all throughout the Benjamin Franklin Parkway, people as far as your eyes can see. It's like, that's cool. I mean, it's cool. It's a cool thing, but after a while, it's less about the people and more about your connection with the music because that's what people, I guess, are trying to see. I think they just want to be in the same space and know that, oh, that's him.

Yeah, I think those stadium-type shows provides a different experience than maybe a very up-close and personal. Like this one, I'm allowed to kind of, because I can't, I don't have to focus on the people so much. Like, I can just focus on my singing and my vocals and, you know, that type of thing and maybe acknowledge the person that's way over there. And blue shirt. Right, right, because you caught eyes for a second. I love that.

Those experiences are great, not just for the crowd, but for us to. Is your experience of these songs and singing them for all these years? Does it change or evolve over time? Or does it instantly sort of transport you back because of the music has... No, it's different every time. It's different because the crowd's different. The crowds are different. The people's minds.

states at a time are different. They're exuding a certain level of energy, which permeates onto you and you throw it back. So you base things off of the energy of the crowd. We still give our 100% regardless, but the crowd is what kind of helps dictate what we're going to do for the crowd. So it doesn't ever feel stale. No. After all these years, it's different every night. No, no, no. There are times where I'm on stage and I'll go, man, I sure hope room service is still open. You know, while I'm singing. I love to know that you're still a human. Yeah.

After all these years. Oh, yeah. Like, while we're singing sometimes, you know, I'm like, man, I could go for a nice turkey burger. Like, right, right after the show, I'm going to find me a place to get a turkey burger and some fries and a beer. That is so real. And watch sports center. Yeah. Can't wait.

But right now. Kind of entertaining these 75,000 people. Got to entertain these 74,900 people. Seventy-four, 900 people are. I have to ask you a real quick question. You know, at some point you have like the string of hits, you know, I'm Benin' Knee, One Sweet Day. At some point creatively, did you guys feel like, as artists,

did you feel like when you were starting working on a new album? Okay, what's our epic ballad going to be this time? Like, did you ever feel that pressure? Because I think it's just something all artists feel. When something hits as huge as end of the road, and I'll make love to you and all these, all these songs, Like at some point, did you guys feel that? Or did you run away from, like, okay, we're not going to do a ballot this time.

We're going to, you know, we're just going to do us. Like what? I'm sure you felt some pressure from a label to do that. But what was happening internally? Ballads were just natural to us. We loved singing or writing ballads. So it was never a chore. Okay.

Necessarily to sing slow songs. What we wanted to shy away from was, trying to redo end of the road. Yeah. Like, we knew that was never going to happen again. We understood that. We understood that that was a moment in time that we were blessed to have. Let's see where else we can go. As artists, that's where we were going. Like, let's not put ourselves against the wall and say, hey, we got to do another end of the road. None of us said that. Like, we said, all right, what else can we do?

And we stretched our creative limbs and tried to find that. And a lot of what's successful has a lot to do with timing and with, I guess you could say, the focus of those who made your other records successful. Wow. Yeah, one hand definitely has to watch your other. Like you can write a great song, just like you guys have a great podcast, right? Oh, thank you. You do.

Did you get that? Yeah, yeah. Yes. They have a great podcast. Thank you. But without the backing of the machine, it doesn't matter. Like no one- The machine being the label.

The machine being the label. Making sure it gets heard. Yeah. The great song. Yeah. The great song gets, yeah. And there are a lot of songs that I felt could have been on that level. But the labels just felt like they wanted to do.

go another direction. With the proper promotion, that song could have gone further. I think so. In certain, you know, specific songs that I'm thinking of. But I ask you, what's a song that you think we should go back and listen to again? There's a song called Doing Just Fine. That I wrote that I thought was one of the best songs I ever wrote. And it did well.

Yes. But as far as it doing end of the road. road well, it missed by a mile. And I think a lot of it had to do with a lot of things. A lot of things that we were transitioning into as men as now veterans, you know, kind of, you know, in the business, understanding things and our relationship with the label at the time and all that other stuff. It has, that has a lot to do with the success of a song. But you think that song's success maybe suffered from a lack of, literally the money to promote it, the attention,

bringing it to radio, whatever. Yes, they were emphasizing on different things. And it was less about us and more about other people. Understood. Sean, what do you think the legacy of Boys to Man and Motown, Philly is? I think it will be considered one of the many storytelling songs ever written. that it capsulizes an era of music. It is a signature 90s record.

That's how 90s records sounded. And if you wanna refer to what a 90s record sounds like, you can always go to Motown Philly. I think its legacy is based off of what we did after it. That's what Motown Philly tends to be the keystone of who boys to men became after that story was told. Do you think that that song that Motown Philly helped introduce Boys to Men to listeners who may not have been ready for a straight-up vocal group coming off of that?

So much so that, and I've told this story before, there were radio stations that did not get it, didn't like it, hated it, thought we were corny, thought I represented, presentation was corny as whack, you know, who these niggas in these bowties. Like, no, I mean, we've heard this stuff. You know what I mean? Like, you know, they're cheesy.

They're this. They're that. Like, you know, reporters or, you know, writers of magazines like Nelson George, who, you know, literally dissed us. Nelson came for you? He slammed you. Nelson George came from boys?

I did not know this. Oh, yeah. Like, they were trying, he just called us straight cornballs and thought that we were. Nelson said cornball? Look, I love Nelson to death, but like... Yeah, I mean...

That's a little kettle calling the pie black or whatever. But, you know, and it was because of the people just loving it because they loved it. Yeah. It forced the hand of a lot of radio stations because they wanted to get in on that ad revenue. So they had to play the record. And to the point where it was like it became number one and those. respective stations. And, you know, it happens. Like, some people make the wrong decision.

You know what I'm saying? And some people have their opinions on things that doesn't matter at the end of the day. I wanted to mention some of your contemporaries like portrait and condition. My guys. Shout out. Portraits, here we go again is a fantastic song. It's awesome. It's a great song, isn't it? It's awesome. Michelangelo. Shout out to Michelangelo. There you go. I mean, like, those guys, and this is the beautiful thing about it, too. It was great that that era, too. because we were all friends, all of us. Portrait, Men Condition, intro. Tevin.

Tevin. Basically, everybody you see in the You Will Know video in Black Men United, that was pretty much a real thing. We all got along. We were all friends. We all respected each other. Because it was some singers in that motherfucking room. It was some singers in that room,

including DeAngelo, who wrote that record. That's right. That's the first time I met DeAngelo is because he wrote, you will know, along with Brian McKnight. So, you know, it was honestly, man, like the 90s was so pivotal. So rich.

And so rich in music and sound and just good-ass motherfucking singer. You know what I'm saying? Good writers, too, though. It was so incredible. And again, I cannot say the same about now. Like you had a room

of 60 men that could all throw all of them in some way, shape, or form. Do that here in 2025. I challenge y'all. Like, I'm talking about popular, like, you might get 12 in a room.

And that's it. And this is no slight. If anything, it is a call to action. There you go. to all of you artists out there that don't understand what I'm talking about. Like, just reference that room alone. We had Gerald Lavert and you had, you know, R. Kelly, and you had Tavon Campbell, and you had Elda Barge and you had, like, all of these men who were throwers, bro.

Throwers. You can't fill a room in 2025 with a bunch of male throwers. You can't do it. You can't do it. And that's really, that's the problem with today's music. You want to know what the problem is? Fill up a room with 60 hitmakers male or in a group in 2025. You can't do it.

And that is the problem. The musicianship you're saying? Yes. The like actual musicianship. Songwriting. Songwriting, hit records. Performance. The whole nine yards.

Tell me I'm wrong. Honestly, honestly. Tell me, and for you guys that's watching, tell me I'm wrong. Tell me I'm wrong. Challenge this. You name 60 artists, groups or whatever in 2025 mail that can fill up a room

and throw. That got hit records on the radio. You can't do it. Because they don't exist. Find us in the comments. Prove this man wrong. Sean, you, Boys to Men, new edition, Tony Braxton, about to hit the road, huge show. What is next on the

horizon for you guys as a group after this tour? We're still working on the biopic. That'll come out along with a documentary. Amongst other things. I mean, I can't really say right now. But really exciting stuff. Might be some new music? Maybe.

I said it, not you. Technically speaking. You said it, I didn't. But we'll see. And also, again, I'm excited about my own podcast. That was called On That Note. Yes, great podcast. Thank you.

And just a lot of great guests that are coming up. I had Reginalduddling on recently that's going to air later and everything. So we talked about the Boomerang Soundtrack and all the other stuff. And that was amazing. And just a lot of great things in the works that I'm very excited about and I'm grateful for. And I just wanted to say thank you to everyone on behalf of my group, on behalf of myself. life is still very good because of you guys. And we really truly appreciate y'all.

And we can't wait to see you on the road. And yeah, it's going to be a fun couple of years, the next couple of years. Thank you for sharing your artistry and your gift for all these years. That was fun. Like, I enjoyed hearing those vocals like Acapella. That was weird. Just to hear the 18-year-old Sean. It's like a time machine.

Yeah. Sean, thanks for coming on the show. I appreciate y'all. Thank you. All right, One Song Nation, it's time for one genre. Our friends at Discogs challenged us to do a deep dive into a subgenre and share a few rigors that we think are essential listening. That's right, Tiala. Just a reminder, we at one song use genre as a way to talk about music with shared sensibilities. Right.

But not as a way to rigidly define the music. Not fans are rigid. No. Not rigid fans. We like open-minded. Exactly. Speaking of which, today, we're talking about psychedelic. hip-hop, and that's not a term I would often use or that you're going to hear people use often.

It's definitely more of an academic classification, I think it's safe to say. But to me, this subgenre represents more of the abstract and artsy side of a genre that is usually defined by its realism. I actually literally never heard the expression until you mentioned it to me. And I kept seeing it used online and articles, and I was just like, you know what? I know exactly what they're talking about. Exactly me too. It makes sense when you hear it.

It's like a conversation starter, more as very. genre go. So, Diela, what is your pick for the psychedelic hip-hop show? Oh, man, let me just say, I've been wanting to talk about this group. This is P.M. Dawn, the Bliss album. That's not there. The whole title is The Bliss album. Vibrations of love and anger and the ponderance of life

and existence. So yeah. That is some deep stuff. Total mouthful. But I just want to start up by saying, I don't think that we, and I'm using we, I was part of the hip-hop community when PM Dawn was out. I don't think that we did right by them. We kind of I'm out of town. This group came out of New Jersey and for a long time, they could not get signed in

America because they always kind of wanted to do the PM Dawn thing. They were like, hey, this is who we are. This is how we want to rap. And we also want to sing on our records. And at the time, none of these things were very typical in hip hop. Okay. They had to do the Jimmy Hendricks thing where they went overseas to get signed. Famous. Yes. They got signed overseas. And they happened to sign with a manager who had worked with Spandau Ballet on their hit song True. That explains the connection? Yes. I never knew that's where it was their big hit, sample true,

and it was the international hit known as Set Adrift on Memory Bliss. I just, I loved that song at the time, and it's a huge international hit, but they immediately started to bump up against the mainstream underground hip-hop community, for the lack of a better term. In an article in Details magazine, Prince B. sort of said, S.1 claims to be a teacher, but a teacher of what? Keras1 heard that, did not like that, and then famously charged the stage in New York one time when P.M.

Dawn was performing, pushed them off the stage and kicked into the bridge is over. Well, but it's a seminal hip-hop moment. Yeah, right. But I think if you take a step back from even that quote and just look at P.M. Dawn's body of work, there's some amazing songs out there. Like, there's a song called Paper Doll.

You know, it's got some of the same qualities that I feel like Pitch Hot Boys, West End girls had. Synthiers. Yeah. Yeah. Synthesizers. It's synthesizers, but it's also like, you know, there's like some break beats that sort of like serve as the drums. A little bit, but I was going to say like they actually, it's sort of more of it doesn't

have a lot of syncopated, funky beats and hard drums. It's sort of softened. It's more kind of house music a little bit. Oh, there's definitely sort of like a balleric house sound in here that you're going to find on like early Paul Oak and Fold production. Like the Happy Mondays Pills and Bellyakes, which I always say is one of my favorite. favorite sort of Manchester, you know, creations of all time. Yeah. Yeah, there's something

very sort of British about their approach to their music, but these are like two black guys from New Jersey who definitely saw themselves as a kind of hip-hop, and they didn't really ever get the chance to shine. I went on discos because I was like, I think they have some more songs that I really love. Again, I found this one and purchased this one because it was a special edition orange vinyl,

which I cannot wait to, you know, play, because I'm still a sucker for, like, some colorful vinyl. It's going to sound better because it's orange. It's going to sound great. Looking through Patient Eyes is on here. That's a great song. It also has probably my favorite song of theirs outside of Paper Doll, which is, I Die Without You. This was the song that was on the Boomerang soundtrack.

It's a slow jam. There's no rapping to be found on it. But anybody who knows that soundtrack or that scene or that song, I Die Without You, it's just a beautiful R&B song. It's an R&B song that gets name checked by a lot of R&B producers from that period. It's just a beautiful song. So I think the timing has a lot to do with everything. I feel like PM Dawn is one of those groups that if they came out today, they'd be unquestionably.

You know, they would be mentioned in the same breath stylistically as like a Tyler or a Donald Glover. Like somebody who gets to be hip hop, but like very different kind of hip hop. But that wasn't so much a thing back then. And so they kind of suffered from when they came out. And Prince Bee unfortunately died. So you're not going to get much more PM Dawn material. But between I die with that. statue, paper doll, and of course, their big hit, set a drift on memory bliss.

Go out. Give them another list. And I think you'll be shocked at how well some of their material is aged. And with that, I'm going to pass the Discog's lip mat to my brother, Luxury. Lusory, what's your selection for this genre? My Discog's subgenre selection of the week is, in the same vein, the psychedelic hip-hop vein, De LaSoul's Seminole first record, three feet high and rising. Yes, classic. I actually own the original on vinyl.

I need to go look up on discogs how valuable this is. I won't do it in the room because I'm worried that I will leave it without. Someone in this room is going to take it. But I did, by contrast, get their third record, Balloon. Balloon A. How do you pronounce this? Balloon Mind State. They just spelled it weird, but can I just say...

Balloon Mind State. This might be my favorite record by them. I know this album, Inside, Back, Front, Front, Forward, All that stuff. It's just like, it's a fantastic. fantastic record. It has some of my absolute favorite songs by them. I was excited to finally get it on vinyl. And when I bought it on vinyl, I got a new copy, which means that I didn't get the entirety of the original version. Because in order for it to exist in the world, they had to do a lot of complicated sample and interpolation clearance.

And they didn't get every single intro or skit. And in fact, a song or two was even dropped from this version. Do you know which ones were dropped? Listen, I had a lot of fun going on to discogs because of all the credits, too. There's all kinds of, like, differences. A song may or may not have the exact same sound in it. You're like, wait a second, that wasn't in the original. Because that section of it, that one sample out of many was interpolated. Oh, trust me.

When I buy these things on iTunes and I listen to them, I'm like, this is different. Yeah. Yeah. So you can see, for example, and focus contains excerpts from, nothing is the same, contains excerpts from. There's all these kind of credits, very specific credits, which are, you know, that's a fun, you know, rabbit If you're a fan of Dela Soul, buy the new version or just listen to it on Spotify and do a one-to-one comparison. Can I see the vinyl?

Take it real quick. Let me just take a quick look. I will pass the vinyl to you. Oh my gosh. Yes, this is a much shorter album. Yeah. Yeah, there are a couple on here. Long Island Wilden with the Japanese rappers.

I'm missing that. I'm missing Dave has a problem. Seriously. This is just how it works in the world these days. Yeah, we just got to go out and find that original pressing because there's so many songs on here. I mean, I patch. I'd be blowing. I am I be in the woods.

Break of Dawn. Oh my gosh. I'm kind of. Is it okay if I hold on to this for a second, bro? Sure. Touch it. It's mine now. I was worried about this one getting stolen.

No, I was worried about the wrong one. No, I'm going to stay and stakes as high. Those are my... Listen, I don't know what makes these psychedelic to you, but to me, I think some of the eclectic sampling, especially on... Yeah. ...theirthead high and rising.

The fact that we are going from such a wide range of sources from Johnny Cash to TV shows and game show kind of host... Like the eclectic mix of sounds and ideas is, especially in 1989 when this record comes out, Also, just the use of daisies and flowers and all that stuff. And the funny thing about De La, they talk about this now because they have a new album. Shout out to De La and Pazinus. Yeah, I mean, like, if you look at that, it's kind of got like the Paisleys and the daisies.

They said that, look, we were guys who wanted to do hip hop on our own terms and make this album. But then we sort of got labeled as like the hippies of hip hop, which we didn't like. So we made sure that all future albums were a little bit more hip hop, a little bit more street. because they saw how differently, because they didn't quite go so far down the psychedelic road, how differently a tribe called Quest was treated by guys on the streets. You know what I mean? And so they said that they sort of wanted to get away from getting sort of pigeonholed as like the hippies of the movement. So it's a short-lived phenomenon, or were there artists that come after this early 90s era that might be still considered psychedelic hip-hop?

I think it's easy to make the case. Dr. Octagon? what about it? Dr. Ottegon. I'd make the case of Kid Cuddy with all of his sort of like spacey stuff in like 2007, 2008, is his own form of a modernization of being a psychedelic rapper. Again, it's not that anybody wants to be labeled or pigeonholed rigidly as a psychedelic rapper, but I think any time you sort of step out of the sort of, you know, Tupac or Biggie,

like I'm describing what's going on in the streets, and you're like, I want to talk about my place as a living being on a small, rock in an infinite universe, well, they're always going to be a little bit of pushback to that, right? Yeah. Because it's hard to be the nerd when everybody else is kind of posturing. And also after a certain point, all of the genres and subgenres become, they kind of become, especially in this moment, more choices you can make kind of song to song. You can kind of piece together on my record, I want to have a song that's a funk song into a

song that's a psychedelic hip-hip-hop song. And maybe my visuals will sort of allude to something completely different. And they're sampling the turtles. they were sampling groups from, you know, the psychedelic 60s. So I think that there was a three feet, absolute classic album. Impeccable record. So those are our one genre picks. Check out our list on discogs.com.

And we know there are so many more psychedelic hip-hop gems out there. Please let us know some of your favorites in the comments. Hit us up. Please do. As always, you can find us on Instagram and TikTok. You can find me on Instagram at Diallo, Diyah, L-L-O, and on TikTok at Diallo. And you can find me on Instagram at L-U-X-X-U-Y and on TikTok at LuxuryX.

And you can follow our podcast on Instagram and TikTok at At One Song podcast. For exclusive content, you can also watch full episodes of One Song on YouTube and Spotify. Just search for One Song podcast. We'd love it if you'd like and subscribe. Also be sure to check out the One Song Spotify playlist for all the songs we discuss in our episodes. You can find the link in our episode description. That's right. And if you made it this far, you're officially part of the One Song Nation.

show us some love, give us five stars, leave a review, and send this episode to a fellow music nerd. It really helps keep the show going. All right, luxury, help me in this thing. I'm producer, DJ, songwriter, musicologist, and KCRW DJ every Friday night from 10 to midnight, luxury. And I'm actor-writer-director and sometimes DJ Diallo Riddell. And this is one song.

We will see you next time. This episode was produced by Melissa Duanyans. Our video editor is Casey Simonson. Our associate producer is Jeremy Bimbo, mixing by Michael Hardman. Engineering by Eric Hicks. Production Supervision by Razak Waken. Additional production support from Z. Taylor. This show is executive produced by Kevin Hart,

Mike Stein, Brian Smiley, Eric Eddings, Eric Wiles, and Leslie Guam.