One Song - Daryl Hall & John Oates' "I Can't Go For That (No Can Do)"

Episode Date: July 18, 2024

As the hosts of One Song, Diallo Riddle and Luxxury know a thing or two about being a duo. This week, One Song’s most dependable pairing uses their knowledge to analyze “I Can’t Go For That” from the hitmaking duo of Daryl Hall and John Oates. Join the guys as they break down the tenuous balance of creative partnerships, the effects of the blue-eyed soul phenomenon, and uncover the secret third person who co-wrote many of Hall & Oates’ biggest hits. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Visit edc.ca to learn more. Luxury Today's song is a classic from one of the most successful rock duos of all time. It was the only single to hit number one on both Billboard Hot 100 and the Hot Soul charts. That's right. It's a song that's become a staple of this band's live shows. Plenty of artists have covered or sampled it. And it told the world that they will do almost anything. Almost. Almost anything they've almost.

So close. That you want them to. So that's right. It's one song. And that song is, I can't go for that. no can do. Don't forget the parentheses. By Daryl Hall and John Oates.

She was more like the beauty queen on the motor scene. I don't mind what do you mean? I am the one on a dance on the floor in a round. Okay. That happened so organically, but we're going to

talk about that. We're going to talk about that. I'm actor, writer, director, and sometimes DJ Diallo Riddell. And I'm producer, DJ, and songwriter, Luxury, aka the guy who whispers interpulation on the internet. I like how you laugh at that every time. Thank you. I appreciate that. It doesn't get old. It doesn't get young either. I appreciate that. That's true. Fair enough.

Hey, I think we're going to talk about hollow notes. Are we going to talk about hollow notes or are we going to talk about? Shocker, there is no band. We have to get this out of the way. There's no band called Holo Notes. You know, I'm going to go out and copyright the name HoloNotes today. Hollin notes does not exist. They don't like it. And I'm going to tour as Hall of Notes. They do not like it when you call them that. For the sake of simplicity on this show, we're going to say hollow notes. But the fact of the fact of the matter. If you ever look at their album covers, if you ever look on any streaming platform, it's always Daryl Hall and John Oates. Sometimes with an ampersand, sometimes with the letters A&D. But not only are they not haul and Oates officially, they hate being called that. But

we are for the sake of simplicity, because it's much faster to say Holland Outs. That's funny that you say that they hate being called that, because now they don't even like being called Daryl Hall and John Oates. No. It's true. And we'll be getting into that. We'll be getting into the dark storm clouds that have come into this deal's life. Yeah. Okay, Diyah, before we dive into breaking down, I can't go for that. Parentheses, no candy. Tell me what musical memories do you have about the song and about Holo Notes.

Oh, I mean, like, look, if you were alive in the 80s, like, this was a group with all the crossover of people. We just, you love those songs. And I, and regular listens to the show, no, I went to an all black, I was in an all black elementary in middle school. Like, seriously, everybody loved Holo notes. It wasn't like when I said I like the Beatles and people were like, you like Elvis. And I was like, no, I like the Beatles. Like everything else was the same. But Holland knows, I mean, like they, we're going to talk about this too, a little bit.

They got a real past. Genuine crossover. General. All the crowds. Yes, because their music just sounded different. And any kid, black, white, whatever, growing up, we could hear it. Actually, one of my favorite childhood memories is we had a school spelling beat. And this kid got the word.

method and all the kids got really excited and we all said M-E-H-O-F-L-O-F-L-V-E and of course he got it wrong because he wasn't told to spell three words, just one. So his loss to be extra credit. His loss in that spelling bee was my win in terms of a childhood memory. Method of Modern Love was a huge hit when I was a kid. It got that little jazzy. I'm telling you, we could do a whole episode on that song too because like just here again, it reminds me of everything I love, love, love about this band.

Luxury, tell me about your history with Daryl Hall and John Hodes. It pretty similar in terms of it being ubiquitous, like they were on the radio and MTV, and the crossover meant that whatever channel you're listening to, MTV certainly, but if you were listening to, like, for me, it was KFRC, which was like a lot of, it was the Commodores, and, I mean, top 40, by the way, back in the day, was already kind of a mix of black and white music. Yeah, totally. And rock and R&B. So they're very much in the moment of.

bringing everything together. But like, that's where I heard them on the radio, because they were ubiquitous. Like, you really couldn't escape. And just to get this out of the way, they are technically considered one of the biggest duos in history in terms of sales, like 21 albums, something like 80 million units sold worldwide, 10 number one hits and 20 top 40 hits. So this is a massive band. And almost all of that was in the late 70s to like late 80s. So in a very compressed period. And this ubiquity meant that you had all these hits. And what I was a massive band, and what I was going to say about like preparing for this episode I kept on running into like oh yeah they also had this hit oh yeah they also had this hit right it's it's almost like it's almost like as cap and bMI

created the perfect musicians and songwriters in this because like their catalog is crazy and and definitely as a kid of the 80s like I didn't even know at the time about you know Sarah smile and you make my dreams come true I didn't know about those songs I think me too that's like a whole other era of the band in fact when I found out those songs were by them I was like oh they made it a little change here. Right. Very few groups were able to make that transition from like the 70s to the 80s. I'm thinking about, you know, Aerosmith obviously made it, you know, with a plumb.

But like not many people were able to like straddle that, that cross. That's an interesting connection, though, because they crossed over, right? Because that comeback came from their collab with Run DMC, right? With a drum machine. By the way, first time I saw a walk this way. I thought that was like a bunch of actors pretending to be rock stars. I didn't know that. You didn't know that was a real band at all.

I don't know that. I was like, oh, they were perfectly casted, like the way they broke through the walls. Aerosmith was, this is a different episode, but they were so, like, in the rearview mirror that you're right. They were kind of like a new band with old dudes in it. But I mean, like, seriously, these are amazing songwriters. They have 20 top 40 hits, 16 top 10 hits and six number one hits at a time when getting a number one hit. I'm sorry, all you streaming giants out there. A number one hit back in the 80s was like a different level of fame.

Yeah. Because there were only so many. Everyone would hear it. And everybody heard it. Every single person heard it. They were nominated for so many Grammys. It's amazing to think they never won one. That's crazy.

I mean, that's actually, you know, that's kind of a tragedy. It is kind of a tragedy. On the Grammy's behalf. I guess they just weren't friends with the right people. But, I mean, Sarah Smile, rich girl, kiss on my list. Out of touch, private eyes. I will say this about this group. When we were deciding which song.

It was a hard choice. It was a hard choice. Because I will say, if you grew up with the, these songs, there is something, I was trying to describe it, and the only way I could come up to describe it, there's something about the syrupy sweet, minor chords, like, they're like brown sugar for your ears. Every single one of their songs has that, including, can't go for that, but if for some reason you've been hiding under a rock or you're just really young and you don't know Holland Notes, I would ask, hey, go out and check out, kiss on my list, out of touch,

privateize, man-eater, because these are songs, whether you, whether, pump, you, whether, is your main thing or electronic is your main thing or hip hop is your main thing. These are songs that I feel can connect with anybody. I love that brown. What is it? Brown Serapy sweet. I said it's a syrupy sweet brown sugar minor chorus and they usually come at the pre-chorus or like you know it's rarely it's rarely the chorus. It's usually like the pre-course. Maybe it's the verse. Clearly we could have done a one song episode about the band but we're going to stay focused here. Let's take it back a little bit and say Holland knows how How did they meet?

Well, they met by chance in 1967. When they were students at Temple University, shout out to Philadelphia, they were performing with different musical groups at a band competition. I believe that Daryl Hall's band was called the Temptones, and Oates was in the Masters. Exactly. And then famously, because I think it's one of those anecdotes that you can tell they've retold five zillion times.

There isn't a single interview that doesn't mention they were at a battle of the bands at Adelphi University and a fight breaks out. Both of their bands are on the bill and they don't perform, but they make a beeline to the elevator to escape. Oh, I thought you're saying the fight was between the bands. There's a fight in the audience. There are other bands that weren't their bands. They misunderstood the term battle.

And in my mind, I'm thinking like grease with like greasers. It feels like white dudes with like leather jackets and like, so in the way they tell the story. But they meet in this freight elevator escaping from this brawl. And they introduce each other and it turns out they go to the same school. They both go to Temple. Hall is a senior and Oates is a freshman. And their friendship is that.

that gets forged from this escape moment becomes the basis of what turns into a band together. Oh my God, that's way more colorful than I thought. I thought that they had like, you know, polite competition. They were like, hey, I like your son. I like your son. Right. These days with me, it's like ad on Craigslist.

You find a bass player. It's not as sexy as like escaping from a brawl. I'm surprised they didn't. Do they ever do a song about that? That's a great question. Maybe. They got a deep catalog. Let's not forget, we have all these hit songs that we know and let.

They have all these albums. And I don't have, I haven't heard. All of their 200 songs or whatever it is. Yeah. So this show, we've had a few episodes already. We did Tears for Fears. We did Outcast. The duo phenomenon is so interesting.

It's interesting just also in a meta way, because we are a duo. We are a duo. And it's so interesting when you have a creative partner. Yeah. And there's so much going on behind. 50-50. 50. Oh, that reminds me of another episode with Jimmy Jam, busting out with

Oh, yeah, with Terry Lewis. Deep wisdom that him and Terry Lewis have this 50-year partnership because day one, they said everything's 50-50. Yeah. Holland Oates did not do the same. And that's a little another foreshadow. So the story ends not so great, as you and I have already twice now alluded to. Also makes me think that Terry Lewis and Jimmy Jam,

got to watch out for the next five years. That's where things go south. The first half century is great. Yeah. That's the easy part. But the duo phenomenon is interesting because you're balancing egos, you're balancing creative contributions, you're balancing money, you're balancing attention.

So much stuff. Who's on the album cover? Who's in the video? Who's got the mustache and is shorter? You know, we have done a lot of duos. I wonder if this is like how when a person, when you see a person in their dog and they kind of look alike, like you think we're choosing, we're choosing acts based on the fact that we're a duo? There's something super interesting about that dynamic.

So we're going to get into sometimes what those outcomes can be. One laying the groundwork is this song and a few other songs and literally how the songwriting is split up. I've done some homework and it's pretty interesting and surprising. I can't wait to hear it. It all leads up to where we are today with HoloNodes, which is not great. But anyway, so there's this duo phenomenon. They're formed in 1970, and they were just kind of always the two of them writing songs together, and they have instrument players that kind of come and go over the years.

But the band is only ever the two of them, Holland Oates. A lot of this stuff that we've set the table for kind of starts to make a lot of sense. When you realize that Holland Oates came together in Philadelphia in the late 60s, in a scene that was extremely crossover in terms of black and white musicians and audience members, It sounds like, from what I've come to understand, specific places like the Uptown Theater, which is where these acts would go and the Temptations and Sam and Dave, all these incredible performers, black performers. And when you mentioned Hall had the temp tones and Oates had the masters, they're doing

these harmony groups, these vocal harmony, like picture duop on the corner. They call them corner groups. And the core thing is less rock and roll, psych rock, you know, Jimmy Hendricks. That's happening in San Francisco. in Philadelphia in 1967, they are forming soul groups, basically, which is a really interesting basis, because then they get hired by Gamble and Huff, Kenny Gamble and Leon Huff.

Philadelphia International. We have a huge Gamble and Huff fans here. Right. This is a group, this is another duo, by the way, that forms a label called Philadelphia. Maybe we just like ampersands. Maybe that's just our thing. Has there been a group called Amper San?

I'm sure there has. Can we put an ampersand one and song? It doesn't quite worry. It does sound like a restaurant in Silver Lake, though. So the Gamble and Huff bring in Hall and Oates as songwriters, and they want to hire them to be full-time staff writers for the OJs and Teddy Pendergrass, like are these hit makers in the early 70s Philadelphia?

I know this. Who create the Philly Sound, and Hollen Oates are there on the ground floor. And they're literally in a building called, I say the ground floor, they're literally in the Schubert building, which is considered Philadelphia's Brill Building, which is the New York 60s hit factory.

Right? So this is a huge part, of why when we talk about Holo notes, maybe getting a pass or invited to all this stuff, and bringing in all these influences and confluences, is extremely authentic to who they were growing up. This isn't something they added later on. But no, seriously, I think that sometimes

blue-eyed soul gets this bad rap, but if you're writing songs for Campbell and Huff, I mean, come on, like, that is some of the best soul-slash-disco. That, to me, is, like, the gold standard. Can we play a song, speaking of disco? Oh, yeah, sure. Arguably one of the first disco songs now, of course. Some people say it's Solmacosa, 1972, but some people say it's this one.

1973. The song is called T-S-O-P. T-S-O-P, yeah. M-F-S-B, which is mother-fathers, sisters, brothers. That's it. It's also something like... Motherfucking shit. I think it's meant to give you, like, cover for multiple interpretations.

But listen, that is so advanced for 1970s. It's insane, right? Can I play just for a second? My favorite part of the song. Please. This part right here. Let's get on. It's time to get down.

Woo! That's so clean. You know, now it makes sense that one of my favorite, you know, pop soul groups of the 80s was influenced by some of my favorite pop disco soul, I should call it. I mean, that's the theme from Soul Train also. Crucially. If you watched it as a kid or on DVD later. Deep, deep in your brain.

That song is built in. You know, shout to Don Gordon's in Soul Train. But, you know, one more Gamble and Huff classic that I think we would be remiss if we didn't mention. I only heard this song for the first time when I was an adult. I thought somebody had uncovered some secret Michael Jackson song, but it is an amazing song. This is show you the way to go by the Jackson's.

If you want to find another sort of pre-off-the-wall Michael Jackson cut, this is the song to go with. This is show you the way the Jacksons. I mean, gambling up, that was an amazing sound. That is the sound of Philadelphia. And to be clear, the sound of Philadelphia on MFSB. This is the house band. This is like what we have in Motown.

It's the wrecking crew. It's the funk brink. brothers, this is a group of backing musicians who will be underneath all of these songs. If you ever needed more evidence of how cool hauling notes are, let's play a clip. They performed at the Apollo in 1985 with David Ruffin and Eddie Kendrick, and the crowd is loving it. And by the way, this is a 1985 New York crowd. They are singing My Girl and the way you do the things you do. And the crowd is absolutely eating it up.

Amazing. So again, I think that, as that clip shows, that, like, you know, sometimes blue-eyed soul is pejorative, but I think that Holland knows his popularity in the black community. Well, can I ask you a question about that? Like... Is really special. Go ahead. I'm so curious, like, where is... Like, blue-eyed soul, just to be clear, most people know the expression, but it basically means white people singing songs that evoke blackness because of their use of certain, like, literally blues scales and, like, cadences.

So it's like, it sounds black, in quotes. To the extent that some of the artists are often mistaken on the radio Oh, sure. For being black themselves. On Sherman Showcase, we did a whole sketch about those artists that black people didn't know we're black. And Bobby Caldwell always comes up. I think that that common, aka common sense, but the common song that sampled Bobby Caldwell, The Light,

was maybe the first time some of us knew that Bobby Caldwell was a white dude. And Michael McDonald's been getting it ever since you know. Well, that was my question for you. Where, for you, like, where do you, which artists, and you don't have to name the ones that don't? Yeah. But which are the artists that are kind of accepted and considered like this feels like it's respectful, authentic, whatever the right word is, versus the ones that don't.

Is there something that characterizes that? First of all, as you were trying to define it, I was like, yeah, what actually does define a blue light soul artist? I do think that there is something that can be called objectively R&B. and sometimes is the case that even though it's clearly R&B, if a Justin Timberlake is singing it in 2002, well, then it's going to have a wider, wider market than, you know, if Omarion sang that song in 2002.

Shout to Omarian. Doesn't get the love you deserves. Does Justin Timberlake get the pass? And if so, is it sometimes and not all the time? You know, a lot of times it's like who brings you through the door in a weird way. Like Timberlake had, you know, Farrell and Neptunes. And, you know, we just found out that Hall of Notes were, you know, working with Gamble and Huff and Eminem famously, you know,

gets brought through the door by Dr. Dre. So I think to a certain extent, someone might have to bring you through the door. And I think if you're respectful and have real talent, then I think the black people have shown a great amount of, a great ability to shower love on those people who were like, you know, the number of people who have DM me like, hey, y'all got to do a Tina Marie episode.

I hear you. Her voice is amazing. And we would like to do that. And Rick James gave her the vouch, right? Well, yeah, yeah. I mean, Rick James gave her the vote. But, you know, certain artists had, like, I feel like Tina Marie was never like an MTV hit. So her stuff never really broke out to the wider audience as opposed to Daryl Hall and John Oates.

Like, it's important to know that MTV was such, it was so important to the sales. Yeah, for sure. In this period. Like, they're all, you know, there is a whole battlefield of people who did not, who were big in like 1979, 1980, who for whatever reason just did not look great on MTV. Like, I remember even as a kid, like, you see some. these guys, you know, from like, I don't want to call anybody out. You know, sometimes you would see them. They're chested.

You know, they had their shirt open to the fourth button and lots of chains. And they're, you can just hear the label to them, hey, man, Mike Jackson, a little Michael Jackson, he's having a great time in MTV, just style yourself like Michael Jackson. But it looks, you know, Michael, it's easy to forget. He was in his 20s when he was doing all that stuff. And these guys were pushing 40. I mean, like, it's just, it's just a little bit harder to, you, you know, even as a kid, you're not cynical enough to know what's going on.

You just know what's going on. It's a little bit longer. Now, the MTV Age made a lot of artists that were on the rise stop cold in their tracks. Absolutely. And then a lot of new artists, like the a haas or whoever, who were like just attractive young kids. Oh, absolutely. I mean, like the 70s was so cool for black music that it's, it's a little bit sad to know that MTV was not playing them, not giving them that platform, really until Michael Jackson came along. Let's not forget. There are a lot of heavy metal bands too that at the same problem. A lot of white dudes in the 70s that were just like hardcore like doing the heavy metal look and then 198081 rolls around and you eventually get the sunset

strip Motley crew hair metal but there's a few years where they haven't quite figured it out. It's really awkward. Yeah, no, it's totally true. I won't name names. Because we'll probably do episodes. Yeah. But you know, that's MTV. That's a, that's sort of our generation's way of learning new music even if it's a little bit older. And I think what's cool is that TV and movies can keep songs alive for much, much long. Right. And introduce them to a completely new audience. Absolutely.

Right. I mean, like, and Holland Us has definitely been shown some love. Like, I can't go for that. Today's song is featured prominently in the TV series Snowfall, which I think is a lot like power. Like, if you have some black male friends, they are watching power and ghost and Book of Ghost and Book of Canaan's Ghost and all the... There's like a million power spinoffs.

And Snowfall's one of these shows. I feel like it'll never get like the impression. attention it probably deserves but like it is being viewed in black households and as further evidence of hollow notes penetration into the black community psyche i can't go for that prominently featured in snowfall also i'd be low you make my dreams come true another huge hit of theirs that i didn't know when i was a kid sort of had its moment like i know it's in the wedding singer um and uh stepbrothers but man that sequence in 500 days of summer that's the one that made that huge to me is the one It's their biggest streaming song now.

Is it really? It's got to be because of that. You made my dreams? Yeah. That can only be due to 500 days of summer because that song, it's a great song, but I don't think that was, you know, on anybody's shortlist for a very long time. Their point. I mean, great song. Great song.

You make a bad dream. It's so happy. It's so toe-topping. Oh, wait. What other song sort of sounds like that? It might be this one. This is this? Oh, you don't know this?

No, what's that? Listen to the chorus. It's definitely, hmm. Somebody was listening to hauling notes. I mean the, when they wrote this song, yeah. And the, whoo-hoo-hoo-hoo, and the, who-hoo-h-h-h-h-h. I don't like to be the song stitch. Okay.

This is like 40 years going and I'm like, do y'all not hear the, like, even started with the beginning of the song. That is written sideways. One more time. 100%. When I want, you got. Might be hard to handle. It's a, here, here, just to be clear, this is, this is the same tempo range. It's the same bass octave thing.

And it's the same. And it's the same. And it's the same. And it's the same. So they brought all these elements in. No one could accuse this song of ripping off the other because there's no melody. That's the same. It's not a sample.

Yeah. It's not a cover. It is just, they liked that song. And they're like, let's pick and choose a few of the parts that feel like it. And then we'll write a new one. Absolutely. So a really quick backstory because there's nine albums before this one. one. Okay. In the 70s, Hollenotes start as kind of more of a yacht rock with some soul influences,

and their big hit of the time is, well, they have two. Rich Girl is one of them. But before that, and this is important, I'm going to play the song because listen to this song, this is called She's Gone. It's their first huge hit. It's their breakthrough. And what's interesting about it is, what you hear in the vocals is a little different. See if you can put your finger on what it is. All right, what sounds different to you about? this Hall and Oates song. Tell me what is right for me. Sounds like Brian Wilson's solo material.

You got Hall on top with the falsetto, but John Oates has a low voice and he's singing it. You almost never hear John Oates in 80s hot. Except, of course, on the album tracks that are given to him. We're going to talk about that in a minute. But the hits generally don't have a lot of oats and they have a lot of haul. But in the early days, they were a little bit more even in both their songwriting, contributions and like what you even heard on the track. So that's kind of an interesting change that starts to happen in the 80s.

By the way, speaking of She's Gone and speaking of Questlove, he tells a great story Questlove does about how when he was a kid, this song scared him. And when you listen to the part, it kind of makes sense to think about a four-year-old or a five-year-old kid listening to the song because it has the section at the end where it modulates, which means it changes key. Not just once, not just twice, three times. And when I was listening back thinking about a young kid listening,

it's genuinely scary. So I'm just going to play that part. Here comes. First modulation. Here we go. Is that enough? No, it's not. Let's do it again.

Okay, we're done, right? No, there's one more. So, by the way, that is such like a flex for songwriters. It's like unnecessary. It makes the song good five minutes long. And it terrified poor young ones. No, no, it terrifies me to this day. There's a Swiss beat song.

Bring them out. Bring them out. Bring them out. Bring them out. Dun-da-dan-dan-dan-dan-dan-dan-dan-dan-dan-dan-dan-dan-dan-dan-dan-dan-dan-dan-dun-dun-dun. And I'm like, maybe he never stopped. Like, at some point, our heads would have exploded. It plays with your reptile brain.

It's like something intense and dangerous is happening right now. I need to be on alert. Yeah, you're just like, I can't take it anymore. You can't mention Rich Girl without mentioning their performance of that song on Top of the Pops. It's everywhere on social media. Is that the fur jacket one? Oh my gosh. Somebody said, at the point he put on that jacket, he knew he had a hit.

And just note to our listeners, you can catch all of our episodes on YouTube. This might be one of those few times I'll say, hey, try and find this moment on the YouTube clip because this visual, if you've never seen it, is definitely worth the amount of times it takes you to subscribe to our YouTube page. This is a brief clip of Darrell Hall and John Outs, Top of the Pops. You're a rich girl, and you're gone too far, because you know it don't. money anyway. You can rely on the old man's money. You can rely.

So we finally come to Private Eyes. It's their 10th studio album. It's released in September, 1981, which is crazy to me, because to me, I can't go for that. It's like mid-80s, but no, apparently, 1981, 1982. I can't go for that as the second single, and it became their fourth number one hit. So, you know, this is their 10 albums in. This is their fourth number one.

I mean, like, that's a good career by anyone's standards. This song also topped the U.S. R&B chart. That is not common at this time. It was getting played on urban contemporary radio stations like V-103 in Atlanta where I'm from. And by the way, they had other singles off of this album. They had private eyes, which was one of my favorites. I love that. You know, Kiss on My List is just golden magic.

That's what I was saying up front. Once you start listing Hall & Oat songs, you cannot stop because one hit leads to the next, leads to the next. There's so many hits. Almost, because here's the thing. There were some other singles on that album. Did it in a minute? don't know if I know that song, your imagination. It's less good.

I'm going to have to go listen to it. Okay, yeah. It's just funny that on this album that I know so many songs, you know, just I don't know all of them. And by the way, I do want to go back to one day doing that segment that we always talk about. Like, name a classic album and you have to lose one of them. Drop one song, right? I love doing that game. And after the break, we'll break down Hall of Notes' Timeless Hit.

I can't go for that. And we'll tell you what they really couldn't do. Don't go anywhere. Welcome back to one song. Luxury, walk us through this. How did this song get made? All right, let's talk about the making of, I can't go for that, parenthesis, no can do.

Yes. In 1981, they're working on this private-ass record. They're in New York, by the way. By the way, earlier, they've moved from Philly to New York. That's where their career blows up in New York. They're at Jimmy Hendrix's old studio, which is called Electric Ladyland. They're recording the album, and they're done for the day,

but they're still kind of sitting around kind of like, you know, I guess, relaxing, taking in the good fruits of their labor. It's Hall, it's Oates, and it's their engineer, who's, we on the show always talk about the unsung other people who contributed it. In this case, the engineer is Neil Kernan. And he's important because at this point, Hall and Oates are like on their own.

They don't really have a backing band. They don't really have a producer anymore. They were working with Arif Martin for many years, but they're on their own now, and they're just like working with an engineer who does what they say versus a producer who's like, do this. So the three of them are sitting around,

and Oates starts to play with this roll-in, Compu Rhythm, CR-78, not the first time this drum machine from 1979 has appeared on this show. This is the same drum machine we talked about in the Missy Elliott episode, because it's the same one used for Blondie's Heart of Glass. So I'm going to play for you the sound of this drum machine because you've heard it on this, at the beginning, by the way, of all these songs. And you've also heard it on other Hall & Oates songs. Like, it begins kiss on my list as well, the same drum machine. and last but not least, you can't mention the Compu Rhythm CR78 without mentioning this one.

I know. We got to play name that tune one time. That's right. Phil Collins, in the air tonight. All of those songs are using the same machine, which is interesting because it's an interesting moment that within this little time period, all these rock acts and white acts are using drum machines

and kind of taking a cue from what Sly had done 10 years earlier. Do you know what I mean? And it's really not in hip-hop. yet. Drum machines aren't really, you still have the backing bands. Like you got Curtis Blow with, by the way, the bass player, Hall and Oaks. Yeah, in 81, we're still, we're not quite in that area yet. We have a little ways to go before the 808 makes its entrance. So all this to say that Hall is sitting there. He puts on that Rock One setting that starts the song, and it sounds a little like this. And then, of course, and actually, the relevance of the story is he heard that,

and then he immediately turned around to the chord keyboard that was right there, and added this baseline. So together he was just doing this in the room and vibing. And then he turned around and did this little thing with this prophet keyboard that was in front of him. And it's still in the song. So basically the engineers in the other room and Oates is in the other room, they're like, no, keep going. This is cool. Whatever this is, you're on to something. And then he adds his falling melody synth, which sounds like this. Which I always thought was a harp. Isn't it? It's gorgeous.

Right? You could just let this one ride. It's like falling rain. That part is so pretty. It's so pretty, right? Immediate vibe. She real cute. That sound of that fallen rain.

Like, I'm definitely. You're falling in love. I'm in love with that sound, man. Because any time that comes in, that's when you know, oh, they're playing some real, they're playing the real shit. Yeah. All right. Yeah, but it's also interesting calling back to some other episodes of this show.

That phenomenon of starting with an existing thing is inspiration and leaving it in, We just talked about that on Rihanna's umbrella because there was a drumbeat from garage band. We talked about it on, when we talked about Sabrina Carpenter's espresso, which has the splice loop. And we talked about, we actually haven't talked about this one,

and we'll save it for the upcoming blur episode, which we'll be doing soon, right? But we'll get around to talking about Damon and we'll tell the full story. But in Gorillas, he also used the Omnicord preset for Clint Eastwood. So there's this, like, things starting to happen of, like,

using presets and not finding them to be distasteful or dinky sounding. But that falling rain that we're talking about, that's not a preset. That's Darrell Hall playing those notes on the keyboard. I believe the prophet. I have the notes from the session, and I'm pretty sure that's a prophet synth. He's also playing it in the video. A prophet synth.

Yeah, it was one of my favorites of that era. So that's going on. He's piecing all these things together. That, of course, is the intro, which is also later heard again as the chorus. There's two other sections of the song, so I'll very quickly play a little bit of them for you. the bass line switches in the verse to that same line, but in C, you were talking about major and minor, we're in C minor now for the verse, and it sounds like this.

And then I'll add some synth in so you can hear the context. So simple. And yet, and yet. So sparse. So simple and yet kind of complex in terms of the notes that's playing. He's putting stuff in in interesting ways, but there isn't a lot happening, right? your ear is very pleased with the simplicity.

And we've just heard that same baseline, and all we did was move it up from F to C. But you mentioned something earlier that you're absolutely right to talk about these. Tell me again, sugar sweet, syrupy sweet, brown sugar minor chords. So that minor chord, which is in the chorus and the verse, we have a break from it in this beautiful pre, where we go from C minor to C major.

And that's one of the moments of chills up and down your spine. So I'll play you that baseline, and then I'll bring everything else in. And that falling rain becomes really satisfying when you add it back because it's like this. So we have a break from that. Yeah, we have a break. Here's why I think that works.

Here's why I think that works. Because if you think about the confrontational nature of this song, like, I can't go for that. It's almost like he's been making his case. He's like, look, I like you. It doesn't have to be all sperm and drama. Right. You're right.

But into the course, I can't go for that. Right, right. You got a mix? He had to lighten the mood. Otherwise, he'd just be a dislikable person. You're talking about sugar. You've got to, like, a little sugar to make the medicine go down. You know what I mean?

A lot of little yin for the gang. Do almost anything. Almost anything. Like, I'm not an unreasonable guy here. Yeah, like, he's like, hey, look. I'm willing to negotiate. I'm reasonable. Yeah.

It's just, I can't go for that. No. Right back to the militant. No, Kendo. Deal breaker. You know, like. You're looking at me want to AI with, like, Dio or something singing, like some metal vocalists like getting in the vocals. I can't go for that. That's the cover that we have not gotten

in this song. That's that's fantastic. Man, I am loving these stems. What other steps? This is so great. If you love this song, you love that. Now, you did mention that that bass line is sort of iconic. And, you know, we hesitate to call anything iconic on this show. And we never hesitate. We just go right in there with that word. Every episode. We actually have to pay out a hundred dollars every time we say it. To John Icon, who owns it? But tell us about Michael Jackson's relationship with that baseline. Yeah, before we get too deep, we would be remiss if we didn't talk about this wonderful story. And this song is old enough, and Daryl Hall likes to do interviews enough that the

song is out there five million times. But the story goes that at the recording of We Are the World, Michael Jackson approaches Daryl Hall and says, hey, the baseline for Billy Jean, I got to tell you, I got to come clean, Daryl, I ripped you off. I took that from I can't go for that. And let's just play them back to back and we can talk about how similar or different they are. And then I'll play that same part of this. Now, if I can just quickly say something and I definitely hear your thoughts, we actually just had a similar conversation about the Duck Tales thing. This to me as a songwriter is a clear case of that song is awesome. There's a thousand things going on in the song. One of them is the melody. 999 things are not the melody. The drum beat, the baseline vibe.

but not even rhythmically, some of the notes, but not even rhythmically, and nothing else. So to me, when I hear those two, it's like, okay. And just to complete the thought, Daryl Hall thought the same thing. He's like, I don't really hear it, but I appreciate you coming.

I'm glad we agree on this. To me, Michael Jackson is saying I ripped you off for the baseline. This to me is like something that Michael is saying to break the ice because he wants everybody to feel like there's some mutual respect going on and we are the world recordings.

They're not the same. They're not the same. They're not the same table. They're not the same notes. I think, yeah, it's a writing baseline. That's the only similarity. I'm not trying to get the writer of DuckTills in trouble. To me, this is two very different situations.

And by the way, we've already had Quincy say where he pretty much got the baseline from Billy Jean from, which is from State of Independence. So there is a relationship between Billy Jean and State of Independence. Do you want to tell them real quick what that is? Sure, yeah. Just really quickly, it's interesting that there's a connection to We Are the World because it has been said that Quincy's idea for We Are We Are We Are We Are. of the world. Let's get a bunch of stars in the room and do a song. Came out of his doing the song State of Independence. But Donis ever covered this song by Vangelis in 1982 and he brought in Michael Jackson, Stevie Wonder, Lionel Richie, Christopher Cross, and a bunch of others for an all-star

recording session where they did the backing vocals. And I'm going to play for you now, State of Independence, because... How do you have so many famous people on a not-famous song? Didn't quite pan out for poor Donna, but we love. But this is the song and pay very close attention to this bass line. like a commercial for a tandy computer. It does very... It sounds very... It's like, now the future is your fingertips with tandy.

It's very 19802. I'm just going to quickly play all those for you. And just to like finish that thought, Quincy was interviewed once and he said... It's a funny thing because he later just about it. Now, now I'm thinking about a RadioShack commercial that has that song as this background music. You got to find that. That's out there.

It's scratch that YouTube bitch. But in a 2018 interview, which he later retracted, Quincy said, the notes don't lie, man. And MJ stole it from that song, not the other one. So he may have been trying to do a little smoke and mirrors kind of thing, but I'll quickly play them for you and you be the judge audience at home. Let's start with the first song that was recorded, which is 1981's, I Can't Go for That. No Can't Do.

So that's, I Can't Go for That. This, by contrast, this is Billy Jean by Michael Jackson. And now here's State of Independence. They're sharing notes. They're sharing rhythmic qualities. to my ears, those last two are the closest, I think State of Independence. Oh, yeah, they're way closer. And Billy Jean are the closest, yeah.

So going back to this magical moment where they're still in the studio, after Daryl laid down those crucial elements, he pointed to John and said, and he was singing a line for him to play on guitar. He's like, John, play this on guitar. So John goes in, John Oates goes in and plays this on guitar. And that's all John Oates plays on this song. Every element of this song works. Yeah.

You know, one thing I love about one song, is that we play the stems. And on some songs, you get the sense, oh, each, that part is cool, that part, but they all come together to make a great song. This is one of those few songs where I think I like every single element, and I could hear every single element

just as a lay listener, just as a casual listener to the song. That's a good point. There aren't things like buried underneath. That's right. There's nothing to bury in this. Every single part just makes it, I keep coming back to dessert, but it's like the perfect ice cream

with the perfect topping, with the perfect, like every single thing makes it better. You're right, and there's very little in here because usually on the show too, we like to call out the things that you might have missed that were buried. There's very little in here. Why did they lose that?

Or I can see why they lost that. There was next to nothing in here that you don't hear in the mix because it's such a spare mix. This is how I understand songmaking. And obviously, you've done way more songs, but like I have done some songs. Yes, you have.

We have together. And then we have together. This makes so much sense to my brain that like you bring in, the first element and it's a winner. Then you bring in another element. It's a winner too. And then before you know it, you've got all these things that you take one little bit out, you take one little bit out. It's what I really appreciate about like early underworld, like around the time they did Boku Fish. Okay. You know, like a lot of their songs were assembled

that way. They'd bring in one element, then they'd bring in another and then they'd bring another and they'd take one thing out. And it's just like, it was almost like having fun with the stands. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And this is just that song. That's a cool comparison. You can almost hear some of those long, like 10-minute underworld songs on the record. You can kind, It feels like it was almost a jam session. We're like, what about this? What about this? And they just like, hey, that's cool.

We tried it, we tried it, we tried it. And then we ended the song. There it is. I'm enjoying this ride so much. To that degree, is there anything on this song that we don't hear or didn't know is in the stems? So for me, the one thing when I was going into the stems that I found that I'd never noticed before, it's such a tiny detail, but it's now you'll never unhear it, which is one of the fun thing about our show, is that the second time around, the pre-chorus has a little bit of an alt.

It's a little different. but I'll play that for you now. It's very subtle. So here's the pre-chorus. It's just rhythmically he's starting a little later. Instead of... He's going... He's just waiting a beat.

It's so subtle, but it makes the second time around different from the first time around. Your ears don't get bored. Your ears don't get bored. Your ears don't get bored. That's amazing. All right, can we talk about one of my favorite things in the song? I know it's right.

Yeah, waiting for it. This song The saxophone Let me just say right off the bat I don't know why I said it like that Where was that coming? It's Charles DeChance A white man

Oh is it really? Yeah This saxophone If you were a kid of the 80s Like the saxophone was such a ubiquitous instrument In ways that it just is not nowadays Like there was always a saxophone I'm reminded of that dude

Who was all mussely Clarence Clemens No Oh no The musly Oh I know you're thinking For Tina Turner Lost Boys.

Yes, he played for Tina Turner. But in the Lost Boys, he's a guy like, I still believe. I know his whole story. His name is Tim Capolo or Capello. Because he's the inspiration for the sax guy on SNL, right? Yes. Like, the John Ham character. Sergio.

The original Sergio. Has a saxophone. And for some reason, he's ripped. Yes. He's a good looking man. Playing his heart out in the Lost Boys. And we all saw it. And it is such a funny thing because, again, saxophones,

not something you hear in any music almost nowadays, other than like, you know, Kamasi Washington. Well, it's had a comeback recently. I mean, it's 10 years ago now. I remember there was this moment, like Lady Gaga had a sax on a few. There were a few pop songs that brought it back, I think, in the early 2010. But this saxophone solo is a star. Can you please play us the isolated saxophone from I Can't Go for that.

Hall of Notes. Here's Mr. Charles de Chant. And it's so satisfying because it lands in the major section, right? Gratifying. So gratifying. It's so loud. You feel like. yes, I know what it might have felt like

to be partying at the China Club in New York. You know what I mean? It's just one of those kind of like... It takes you to a place. It does. I mean, like, in some ways it dates it, but it dates it in the best way.

Almost like the perfect wah-wah from the disco era. I was just getting chills up my spine. I'm just thinking about the phenomenon when you have a solo in a different key and then the last note of the solo overlaps into the change of the song and it's just the most gratifying combination of things. And that's what happens.

That last note, da-da-da-da-da-da-d-d-cha. We're back again, we're home again. They offered him a snack, and he made it a meal. He sure did. And by the way, this man has it. You want to guess what this man's nickname is, Mr. Charlie DeCant? They call him Mr. Casual.

We love Mr. Casual. He did a great job on this song. He killed it. He absolutely killed it. What is this song about? I think we all thought we knew what this song was about. But if you listen to the lyrics, well, just play us a, play us a little.

lyrical section. Then on the other side, we'll talk about meaning. Over time. Where does it stop? Where do you dare me to draw the line? I mean, this is a love affair gone way wrong, right? Like, you know, he's like, I'm easy, ready, willing, even in overtime, but where do you dare me to draw the line? He's clearly talking to a paramour, a woman. They're having a little moment. Another duo situation. They're having one of those duo conflicts. But is it really about a lover? I don't think it is. Yeah. Let's just, let's just rip the band-aid off. Okay, let's do it. Okay, so Daryl has explained the true meaning of this song in a 2014 Philly.com article. He says, that song is typical of a lot of lyrics we've

written over the years. It seems like it's about one thing, but it's really not. The underlying subject matter is actually, that song is about the music business. Isn't that crazy? Because then when you listen back, it has a completely different song. Oh, it's a completely different song. It seems ridiculous until you go, like you said, you go back and listen to the song. You're like, oh, yeah, this is about his relationship with the record label once we've been easy, ready, willing, do it, put in overtime, but where do I draw the line? Yeah, because it's too much pressure. It's stuff we don't want to do, maybe. It's like they thought that we needed one more song to be the single.

A million of the cliches of the record industry, I'm sure, are happening to them all the time. These guys, as they blow up and become this next level of fame that they're going to do. No, exactly. And by the way, the lyrics of the song are highly repetitious. Just like, you know, you're loving the song and you're loving the ride that you're on so much. But then when you go back and listen to it, you're like, oh, they're like four or five things that they sing in the song. Yeah, it's pretty simple. Let's take it to the pre-chorus, this beautiful moment.

And then we'll hear those background coups that I believe are Hull and Oates together, but I wasn't able to be able to find corroboration. They weren't a do-op band. That's true. Oates is hitting notes. That's a great point. This really harkens back to late 60s Philly Street Corner stuff where they got their start, isn't it? They kept that in this whole way. through.

Yeah, I bet you want me to. Is that everybody's favorite part? Is that just mine? I sing it in my sleep. First of all, that's a big old stack. That is a, those are jazz chords. It's like when you see the, a lot of close harmony,

a lot of flavor. There's some ninths and 13th's in there. And like that's again from their four part harmony days is learning what that fourth guy does. Because usually it's going to be the root note and the third and a fifth and then maybe a seventh,

but maybe you're jumping around a bit. It's the one thing about harmonizing that I love, and I should say that I was in an a cappella group in college. Yeah, go ahead and sweat me, you guys. What was your pun of a name for the group? Brothers. Oh, okay. Yeah.

I mean, but we were like, you know, four black guys at Harvard who could sing. So we were like, we're going to be called brothers and we're going to do shy and silk classics. But then we also had a whole, like, gospel repertoire that we would get into. But the cool thing was that when you were in the studio and you'd be trying to hit these notes, especially if you're doing something like shy,

if I ever fall in love. Sometimes as an alto, I would be, I would sing a note that just did not sound right, but in connection with all those other notes, it sounded super, super cool. That's kind of harketing back to what Jimmy Jam talked about on her episode with Janet, is that she would find these notes

when she was singing her own background vocals, and Jimmy and Terry would look at each other like, what's going on here? And then they would hear it back, and Janet knew in her mind where all, where this stack was going. So when she was done with that fourth, fifth, six notes. She was listening to her brothers, and so she knew like, oh, I got to go here to go here and go here.

But together it's going to sound like this. And that's what's happening here with those beautiful backing vocals. Beautiful. I love the way that they're stuck. Okay, I got to hear one of my favorite parts of the song. I can go for being twice as nice. Okay. I can go for being twice as nice.

I can go for just repeating the same old lines. It's so good. I mean, like, you know, he's got like sort of like the feline style. purr of, like he's got that, and then he's got the heart, twice is nice. So this harkens back to our original topic. What is blue-eyed soul? Why are these guys getting past to the barbie? We're invited to the cookout.

So when you isolate the vocals and you can really hear some of the notes he's hitting are blues notes we would call them, meaning like you're bending them. It's, I can't go. That's a blue note. Meaning it's kind of, it's a little bit of a microtone. It's not the entire note that you're bending. I, you know what I mean? So that is part of the blues.

repertoire includes many things, but one of them that is bluesy and therefore black, I think, to our ears a lot of times, is when you make these choices about how you hit the note and how you bend them. And so that's one kind of thing that as I was listening back, I was like, okay, this is blue-eyed soul right here. You know, I just can't even, you know, it's hard for me to wrap my head around like what's, what is black about it, but like definitely, you know, the shit just works, you know? Like, at the end of the day, like, we can break these songs down as much as we can, but like, some things just work. And the way he comes in on that second By the way, it's a little bit, it's a little bit meta because he says, I can go for just repeating the same old lines on a song where the lyrics are very much unchanged.

I think that's a little bit of, I think you're right. That's a great connection, yeah. You know what? He was having a little fun with that. He's having a little fun with it. Speaking of fun, let's hear the, let's hear the chorus. Major chorus coming up. Yeah, but I can go for that.

No can do I can't go for that. No. That's a little sassy too. Isn't right? Like a little, no. That's a little bit bitchy. It's a little bit of like, no. No.

I can't hit that note, but no, I literally cannot hit that note. No. But yeah, there you go, you nailed it. I think that. It's a little bitchy sound. You know, I came into this episode not really knowing what made HANA so, you know, popular in the black community. I feel like hearing their vocals now, hearing that doo-op influence. So much, right.

That is almost like discovered in this episode. I feel like we're answering the question for ourselves. Yeah, in real time. I totally agree. I love that. You can really hear in 1967, Philadelphia Street Corner, Gambling Huff, are their friends? background in what they're doing on this song, even if it's not pure duop. Long-time listeners of the show, maybe that's your catchphrase.

I know. We're still looking for a catchphrase. As long-time listeners of the show know, sometimes we play a song that fades out on the radio. Sometimes we play an iconic chunky. Just hit them with all of them. We've got to get your t-shirt like that. So sometimes on the show we like to play songs that the radio version or the album version, they fade out. So you never heard what they really ended with.

Oh, no, this is one of those? We got some outro adlibs. Oh, this song has like a great outro. It's got the, I can't go, which I used to always love. And as a DJ, I'd always turn up the treble a little bit, just like you hear that go, like all the way out. Not only that, but this outro is a minute, 10 seconds long of gorgeous outro. Let's hear it. Oh, that's your favorite?

That's the remix right there. Hold on. And here's the ending. I'm sorry, that, whatever he's, I can go, no. Like percussive. vocals always work. Triple it, triple it. It's like a modern sounding cadence.

Did you say megos? Yeah, like the triple it, triple it. That triplet thing is a modern thing too. It was something in the tap water. We each had a top 20 in there of like the coolest moments. I'm going to go with my, no, no, no. I love that every time.

That was my favorite. The last part of that song that I remember hearing is the song phase as, I can't go. But like the fact that he doesn't forget about it no. And he's got that hard percussive, I can't even imitate it. I'd have to hear it some more times. That's incredible. It's incredible.

Y'all left the money on the table. There's an amazing remix there. Hollandos reach out to us. I'm sorry, Darryl Hall and John knows reach out to us. I didn't mean to insult you. So another thing we do on the show is we make sure to give the flowers to other participants in the song who you may not know about. Sarah Allen was Darrell Hall's partner for 30 years. And at a certain point in the mid-70s, they started writing songs together, or at least being part of the writing process where I guess Hall would go home to his girlfriend, and they would collaborate on some of the lyrical content.

But you already know who she is because she is the Sarah in Sarah Smile. So that was Sarah Smile, which is Holland Oates' first top 10 hit from 1976. And it was about Sarah Allen, who actually John Oates met Sarah first. He met her on the street in New York City. She was a stewardess, and they just started talking in the mid-70s. And then Oates introduced Sarah to Daryl. And they started dating? They started dating. They were together for 30 years.

They never married. They broke up in 2001. But they co-wrote a lot, a lot, a lot of Holland Oates' biggest hits. They co-wrote, You Make My Dreams Come True, Private Eyes. She's a co-writer on Man Eater. Her sister, Jana, actually, entered the mix, too, and co-wrote Private Eyes and Kiss on My List. both are number one singles. Oh, wow.

And she wrote them alone with Daryl. Oates wasn't even the mix for those. So the Allen sisters are a huge part of this story from a songwriting perspective. I didn't realize that. The only part of this story I know is that apparently Sarah hates it. Actually, she hates that song.

Poor Sarah. And I get it because if a song is written about you and people know that it's about you, like every time you come into a party, people are like, oh, she probably wasn't here this song. And it's just like, guys. She probably wants here. Guys.

I don't think, I think public service announcement, like if anyone ever meets a celebrity, or you're in the barista at the coffee shop, don't play their song. They never want to hear it ever. That used to be a big thing. Unless it's Kanye West, I have a feeling he might like it. Well, no, it's weird among rappers. They almost feel the opposite. I heard from Quest that, like, Prince hated it whenever Prince threw a party. He wanted to hear, like, you know,

he wanted to hear Sly in the Family Stone. If you put on a Prince song, when he was there, he was very unhappy about that. It's true. All right. I take it back, not a blanket rule, but just be thoughtful. Like, yeah. So, big part of this story are the Allen sisters and Sarah Allen. And just one thing to point out more specifically. So we're building towards the end of Daryl Hall and John Oates working together. We're going to talk about that in a moment. In part, it may have some instances with the fact that once you go deep into the splits for a lot of these hits, you discover some interesting things.

So I can't go for that. The actual splits. You won't find this publicly. But shout out to Claire, my friend, who helps me with a lot of these. She's sort of your Sarah on this show. He's a bit of my back. She really is. Claire McLeish.

Musicologist extraordinaire from Canada. she found for me using her special database that I can't go for that is 50% Daryl Hall, 40% Sarah Allen, 10% John Oates. What? So the songwriting splits for that song are 90% the Daryl Hall, Sarah Allen household, right? If you think about it that way. And interestingly, on Private Eyes, there's 11 songs. All of the credits are split, lyrics gets their credits, and music gets different credits.

All the music is Daryl Hall. Oates never gets a music credit. he only gets a handful of two music credits on the record. Just to sort of finish building this story, because Daryl Hall and John Oates on every album cover, it's always their two faces. Behind the scenes, here's what's been happening through all these years with all these hits.

First of all, we're not hearing Oates' voice anymore, right? Like on She's Gone, we heard that low voice. Gradually over time, we hear less and less of his voice on the hits, certainly. And we also get these new publishing splits are starting to happen with the girlfriend and the girlfriend's sister. So, private eyes, I just told you, what the splits were.

man-eater is 30% Daryl Hall, 30% John Oates, 40% Sarah Allen, interestingly. One reason I've heard behind that is because originally the song was going to be, she's a man-eater and she's like, no, stop right there. She's a man-eater. That's all you need for the lyric in the chorus, which is interesting. And they gave her 40% possibly because of that. Rich girl is 100% Daryl Hall. And finally, you make my dreams come true.

Interestingly, is 16.6% Sarah Allen, and then Holland split the other 41.67 they each get. So across all these songs, it's different every time, but it's always haul, it's not always oats. And when Oates is there, he's often kind of battling for that 100% with Daryl's girlfriend. And this, I think, over the year starts to build up. Yeah. That would be the seeds of some future animosity. Right. Especially since it's, now tell us, who's the one trying to sell their percentage in the songs? So let's talk about what's happening right now in real time. So as many people have heard, there is a curfuffle, there's a lawsuit against John Oates.

And what happened was they were already dissolving their partnership. The last 20 years from what I understand, they'd been a touring band only, they hadn't been writing in decades, but they would show up on stage, do their hits together, get their paycheck, go back to their different cities and different lives. But they were dissolving the partnership to the next level. They're splitting everything up, probably thinking about those big asset sales to the giant hedge funds, right? Sure. Get those, you know, like Dylan's getting half a billion dollars and stuff like that.

And they have the hits. I mean, they have the catalog. Absolutely, valuable catalog. So they're dividing up their boring stuff like publishing rights and trademarks and all the stuff. But Oates, according to what we've been hearing publicly, tried to sell his share without Hall knowing about it or giving permission to one of these big investment firms. Like not to another musical label, like not to a musical entity, but like literally like a bank

rolling up. Right. Like an investment, a roll up of assets who don't, they're not musically minded necessarily. which means that maybe songs get used in ads that they're not, you know what I'm saying? This has the potential for Darrell Hall to lose control over what his music is used for. And I think that's what set things off. Yeah. Because this...

This Hall would rather have that debate with one person, Oates, and not with the... But with the partners of Bain and Cattle. That's the type of thing that might have happened. We don't know the details, but we do know that Oates said, Darrell has always wanted to be his own man. So he, in his mind, he was selling his half to make it easier. but Hall said in his lawsuit that Oates couldn't do that without his permission So this is going to set

I have to believe this lawsuit The verdict is going to set a certain precedent In the law as far as like When you know two people own parts of a song If one person wants to sell their 10% or their 20% Like it seems like if that 10% has any ownership It's complicated By the way I don't know if it's

Across all the songs From song to song we just went through some of the songs splits It's different From one thing to the next slide like from, those are publishing royalties, but the masters might actually be 50-50. We don't, I don't know for sure. Yeah. But all of these different things have their different numbers.

The point to what you're saying, I think, is right, is that when there's a partnership dissolving and you're not working it out together, that you're kind of going off on your own, it's not super surprising. The other guy would be like, dude, 50 years together, you're not like telling me what you're doing. And I'm not crazy about this potential buyer. Why couldn't we talk about it? So that's, I think, where a lot of this animosity is coming from, unfortunately.

Makes sense. I can't go for that. Hall of Notes. It's been sampled by so many. people. One of my favorite uses is De La Sol's say no go. Here we go from Three Feet High and Rising, De LaSoul, 1989. So they use that bass line and then later in the song, what's kind of cool is like the integration of the vocal from the track into the song, the back and forth of the now and the before. We love that. And here it is. And that, of course, came from this. And M.F. Doom used it and Take Me to Your Leader. The

The XX, used it on hold. And here's a fun fact I did not know until we started prepped the episode. Edison Pock said that Dr. Trey originally rapped ain't nothing but a G thing over. I can't go for that. Which sounded crazy. I wonder what that would have sounded like. But I think we can do that. My friend, play me.

I can't go for that. One, two, three, until the fall. Snoop doggie dog and Dr. Trey is at the door ready to make an entrance. So back on up. Because you know we're about to rip shit up. He did it better than that. To be clear, I just went to hear. By the way, that's Snoop's part.

Dr. Dre had a totally different verse. It would have been a totally different vibe. It would have been a totally different vibe. Totally different vibe. But I'm glad they went ahead and sampled what they sampled. We should talk about that song on a future episode. Maybe we will. Also, there have been many artists that have covered, I can't go for that, including

the Bird and the B, Brian McKnight, and Donnie Osmond. What? This was obviously his black song to cover. Let's hear a snippet of that. You know, no song goes better with a light white wine. Oh, boy. In Napa, yeah. That was...

It is low-hanging fruit with the Johnny Osmond. But just think if Hollen notes had done that version. Questlove would not be introducing them at the Rock and the Hall of Fame. That was something else. Donnie was like, I need a black song to cover. Shout out to Donny Osmond. This show has nothing against Donnie Osmond. We don't pick fights with the Giants.

But let me just say... about the legacy of I Can't Go for that. And Daryl Hall and John Oates, I mean, like, I think what we can say is that it's a timeless song that people will still play out and mix into their sets, their DJ sets to this day. I love to see the reaction of younger black people discovering for the first time the Hall of notes were actually white

because they didn't grow up with, you know, the MTV exposure, so sometimes they don't always know. It's their version of Bobby Caldwell. And John B., that's right. John B., the guy who did the song with Tupac, that guy was white as well. I just got, somebody in the studio just did the heart fingers

and it's just, yeah, John B, man, shout out to John B. If you want to, hit us up. But, you know, this song also, one more big picture thought I had was, you know, hollow notes, it had such crossover appeal across many genres. Like, the music industry very different now.

Who are the artists among, you know, Gen Z and people, you know, 20 years younger than us? Who are their HoloNotes? Who do you think is their artists who has this massive crossover appeal that no matter where they go musically from here, you think they'll always have a certain love for? That's a great question. I literally have to think about in the room. Can I pause at the risk of getting flamed online? I think that some of these artists like Bruno Mars will be sort of like that. I was going to say Bruno Mars, but I was hesitating.

Yeah, because listen. But that's where my brain wins too, so there's something to it. He's Filipino and something, but like he's basically doing black music at this point. and I do think it has massive crossover appeal. And it's eclectic from one album to the next and there's hits galore. Absolutely. Do your brain roll call of like Bruno Mars smashes and it's a longer list than you remember it. I mean, I guess the question is, like, we sort of liked Hall of Notes unironically.

I do think there's a certain amount of everybody understands that Bruno Mars is, some of his fanship is like, oh yeah, but that's Bruno. Like you get no props for saying sometimes that Bruno is your favorite. You know what I mean? But then you think about that Sonic album that he had come out and I feel like people like that really unironically.

That was like one of the solest albums that I've heard in a long time. To be fair and to make the parallel I think more of a direct hit I think I don't think in 1982 Holonos was not cool in the same way they were huge and they were popular but in the moment I don't think the coolness

would have been like the birthday party was cool you know what I'm saying like you know Duran Duran was already kind of crossing over from being underground and cool to being pop. I don't think that they were cool in the same way, which makes them actually kind of similar to Bruno in that way. It's not a coolness thing. It's a bigness thing. It's a hit-making thing. It's a pop thing. It's not going for cool. It's not going for a...

And I think that one song is as a show. I mean, like, I think the one thing we've always tried to do is, like, be vulnerable enough to say, like, oh, yeah, I like that thing. I like that thing. I like that thing that's, you know, kind of popular and cheesy. Earlier, before we started recording, we were like, we cover everything from metro area to metro boom and I think that's okay. All the metros. The Metro Spectrum. We don't like stuff just because it's underground. We don't like, we don't dislike stuff just because it's popular.

Two metrosexual men who like Metro area and Metro Boomin. That's the show. That's our catchphrase. Oh, man, you took us back to 208, 2008. That's an old phrase. I haven't heard that in two decades since anyone said that. I'll let the internet take care of you, my friend. Okay, luxury, it's time for one more song.

It's the segment where we share a deep cut or a hidden gym with you, a song that's new to us and may be new to each other. You go first. Well, my song is an intrude DJ spirit. This came to me in the same. spontaneity of the moment. And by the way, I'm in DJ mindset, because right after this, I'm driving to Laguna Beach for a big wedding I'm DJing. So I'm in that headspace. And when we listen to Donnie Osmond just now, I was like, actually, that reminds me of this

awesome Osmond's song that I frequently play in my DJ sets that not everybody knows about. This tune is called I, I, I, I. There's no irony in my love for this song. Like, this could be a Seroon song, like one of my disco, French disco faves. Like, so this tune is in, this is in my life with some genuineness. And when you think about the Osmond legacy, it's like, they did a lot of things, appeal to a lot of people. But this song, like, this one hits me. I'd be curious to know who produced this song, because this feels to me like a song that

was brought to Donnie. You know what I mean? Oh, most certainly. Yeah. But that's a very cool song. They have actually a few cool moments in the mid-70s. Everybody with a long career has at least a few cool moments. For my song, I am going with the 2022.

Joey Badass song Show Me just because I feel like, you know, it was one of those songs that I liked coming out of the pandemic. And if I had been DJing more immediately following the pandemic, it would have easily been a part of my set. Here's a Show Me by Joey Badass. Can't spell us without trust. Put the lust inside of some things we got to discuss. So close your legs for a bit, baby, let's open up. Close mouth. Don't get fed.

Finish your lunch. Yeah. I mean, like I think it's a great song of a great album. Shout out to Joy Badass. It's got a little Mac DiMarco vibe, I think, in the, and the, you know. the music I heard. I love that. That sounded great. As always, if you have an idea for one more song, you can find us on Instagram and TikTok. You can find me on TikTok at Diallo-R-O-R-O-R-O-R-O-L-L-O-L-O. And you can find me on TikTok at Luxury-X-X-X, and on Instagram at just plain old luxury with two X. You can also watch

full episodes of one song on YouTube now. We're under One Song Podcast. We'd love it if you'd like and subscribe. And this is a big deal. because we've been so excited to finally get the full episodes up. So every week they're adding more and more and more. And there's some cool visuals sometimes. Not just our pretty face. We are very handsome. Not everyone knows that.

People just listen to the show. They don't know how handsome you are. What was that laugh? Thank you, my self-esteem needed that today. Yeah, it's true. But you can also see every now and then we'll say, hey, we're playing this clip and you can actually see the clip. So YouTube, different experience.

Thank you for taking in the show however you take in the show. Exactly. And if you've made it this far, I think that means that you like this podcast. So please don't forget to give us five stars on any podcast platform you're listening to Leave a Review, share it with your friends. It so helps literally keep the show going and growing.

So we thank you for listening and all the support you guys, the listeners, give us. Luxury help me in this thing. I'm producer, DJ songwriter, and musicologist, luxury. And I'm actor, writer, director, and sometimes DJ Diallo Riddle. And this is one song. We will see you next time.

Bye-bye.