One Song - Empire of the Sun's "Walking on a Dream"

Episode Date: March 7, 2024

Today on One Song the ultimate pop music dichotomy: It’s a record that is simultaneously huge. But also very niche. The chances are you know the breezy synth pop masterpiece, Walking on a Dream. But how much do you know about Empire of the Sun, the duo who made that song? Probably not a lot. Diallo Riddle and LUXXURY are here to right that wrong. The duo will also take you on a tour of 2000s synth pop, and break down the making of the Pnau remix of Cold Cold Heart (it ties in! We promise!). Artist: Empire of the Sun Album: Walking on a Dream Released: 2008 Genres: Alternative/Indie, Dance/Electronic, Pop, New Age Featured songs: With You Forever by PNAU, Tell The Girls That I'm Not Hangin' Out, Embrace by PNAU, We Are The People by Empire of the Sun, Future by Cut Copy, Shadows by Midnight Juggernauts, Shooting Stars by Bag Raiders, Into the Galaxy by Midnight Juggernauts, UFO by Sneaky Sound System, Rocket Man by Elton John, Twilight by Electric Light Orchestra, Kiss The Bride by Elton John, The Last Seduction by LUXXURY, Cold Heart by Elton John with Dua Lipa and PNAU, Where's The Shoorah by Elton John, He Not In by Chicken Lips.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today on one song, the Ultimate Pop Music Dichotomy, is a record that's simultaneously huge, but also very niche. That's right, Diallo. The song we're discussing today went platinum in the U.S., platinum in the U.K., and 10 times platinum in Australia. Which means it probably sold like 60,000. Hey, they got people down there. They got a lot of people down there.

Shout to the one song listeners in Australia. We love Australia. And by the way, hint, hint, coming on this episode, you'll be hearing that word a few more times. Here's one of the things that you may not have known, though, about this song and this band. This song is in the Billion Stream Club, along with Beyonce's Crazy in Love, the White Stripes Seven Nation Army. Of course. With Hayah Outcast, we got Nirvana up there.

Yeah. Well, that's interesting because that's where the dichotomy comes into play. Because you know those songs. You know those bands. You know they are. They're lore. Even their past lovers. But the band we're talking about today, chances are some of you couldn't even name them.

That's right, Diallo. I'm not sure I can keep this secret much longer. this episode, a song you know Walking on a Dream. And a band most people don't know. Empire of the Sun. Today on this episode of One Song. I'm actor, writer, director,

and sometimes DJ, DJ, Diyah LaRiddle. And I'm producer, DJ, and musicologist Luxury, also known as the guy who talks about interpolation on social media. And this is One Song Luxury. How the hell are you? I am doing so well. I'm really excited to talk about this band today, this artist today, this era today.

This is such a fun era of music. It's going to be one of these episodes where you and I have so much. We were there at the time kind of episodes. We have so much to say about it. It's going to be fun. So, actually, we were talking about pulling this episode together. We were talking about the fact that a lot of people won't know much about Empire of the Sun. I think the short answer is that Empire the Sun is an electronic band out of Australia made up of Luke Steele and Nick Littlemore.

Before we go on a deep dive of Empire of the Sun, tell us a little bit about the Sun. Tell us a little bit about the scene that they emerge from. Well, that's such a great way of setting up because there's something about this moment. This is mid-2000s, there was this moment where a lot of electronic and indie bands started to converge. A lot of the sounds of electronic music started to find its way into, for lack of a better word, band-de music. No, it's the LCD sound system lyric. We turned in our keyboards and we got DJ equipment. Oh, no, we turned in our turntables and got band equipment.

That moment is happening culturally. globally because there's a pocket of the world, and that's what a big part of this episode is about, in Australia where a lot of incredible music is coming out of what seems to be a common thing, a lot of bandy people, a lot of people with guitars and songs with verses and choruses, etc., start to incorporate electronic sound specifically beats and production methods into their song writing. So these are song-based electronic music. I agree. And I also think it's like really young Gen Xers and, you know, sort of like millennial. people who came up musically in the 80s are realizing,

oh, some of those, some of my favorite albums and songs from that period are, yeah, they're bands, but they're really focusing on this electronic equipment. It's the synthesizers, it's the 808s. And so people were in bands are like, I want to do something more electronic. And people were doing electronic, well, I want to do something that's a little more rocking. I think that's right. I think there's a lot of factors. I think another one, which I think we've scraped on this a little bit in earlier episodes.

But really, this is the episode to talk about Blog House. for the first time. This is blog house was a movement in the mid-2000s where blogs started because there was a moment where posting MP3s kind of in the pre-Spotify era was a big way people were getting music. This is a time when I was a blogger myself. I had a blog called disco workout.com. And we're going to get into that. We're going to get into that. And blogs were writing about and sharing all kinds of new music, literally posting often very low-fi MP3s. You know, when a lot of people have in their collection to this day, DJs like DLO and myself, probably from this three or four-year period, a lot of very low resolution

MP3s of 128. 128, 96, some of them. Oh, ugly. This moment where music was understood to be, in fact, it was kind of a marketing strategy. It was like, my inbox as a blogger

was flooded with publicists from bands like Empire of the Sun who wanted to give away this music. Yeah. So this was this sort of moment. It's a little post-Napster. It's a little pre-Spotify. Apple exists, but there's a lot of MP3s as promotion taking place. And you know what's interesting.

I think this is one of the first scenes in the modern era where the scene wasn't completely geographical because if you asked me where the heart of the scene was, I would have probably told you Silver Lake. Oh, it's wonderfully international because of the internet. Exactly. So international. There was a guy in Scotland I was communicating with

constantly because he seemed to get MP3s really early. So the scene is global. But help us set this Australian scene in particular. Well, I just remember as a blogger writing about so, like a lot of the music that would come in that would strike my fancy, in this position as a quote unquote taste maker. You know, I could only write about one thing at a time.

And in this moment, so many incredible bands are coming out of Australia. And these are the ones that are, I'm really resonating with them. Some of them were like the presets. There's cut copy. Right? There's bag raiders, right? Remember shooting stars? Absolutely.

Shooting stars is a huge song that comes out during this period. So many great bands. So many good memories with that song. Like, it's 20 years old, if you can believe it. But the presets, this is a sweet. spot for us. Yeah, so such a sweet spot. Great scene. I'm only at the beginning of my list. I'm going to quickly go through a few more just because they're so major for me, midnight juggernauts. We had Chet Faker. We had Miami Horror. We had sneaky sound system who are going to come into play

in a minute. And last but not least, coming up around this time in the earliest songs, they weren't quite big yet, was Tame Impala. So Australia is exploding with creativity. There's a lot of cross-pollination again. I always forget Tame Impala is Australian. There, Kevin Parker as an Australian man. And you just I said they. I always also forget it's one dude. He's one guy. And yeah, so this is the Australian electro-indy scene. And you know, before we get into the stems, one thing that came up for us, do you think that MGMT goes in this category too? I think it does. I think MGMT are right up there in the same world of bands coming from the band side of things. Yeah. Drums, bass guitar, song, indie rock world, bringing into their operations synths and electronic music and drum machines, etc. And having

for on the floor beats at times, you know, sort of more dancey, danceier music. So there's this cross-pollination of genre, and it's definitely accelerated by, we forgot to mention talking about blog house, a big part of the blog MP3 thing is there's so many remixes happening. The publicist thing I was mentioning flooding my inbox was, here's a bunch of new remixes from the blank album. And that's where you'd get the new presets.

And that's where a lot of these bands became big, Pnau, which is another band from this, we're going to be talking about them. They go right. right in the same category. This is two members of Pinau, one of which goes on to be in Empire of the Sun, is one of these artists that are remixing other artists, and that's how their name is starting to grow. By the way, I think you're absolutely right about the remixes.

Some of my favorite Passion Pit remixes to bring up another group from this era. You can't find them anywhere. You've got to go on YouTube and stuff because you figure out, oh, that remix that I love, that was like just a, yeah, it was just like some kid, like, you know, work at his home computer. this is a scene and a style that we cannot talk about without referring to the fact it actually absolutely intersects with your career

as a songwriter. This is not just in the abstract that I'm saying people remix to other bands. This is where I'm getting my start. I actually had been in, I've talked to earlier episodes about how I was a musician. I had toured the UK. I went into debt.

Nobody liked the band. It was like a great life experience that didn't lead to very many opportunities. Except that when we came back, Blog House was beginning to happen. And my friend John, John Atron, shout out to John Atron and I started a blog. And it was called Disco Workout.

And this was the beginning of me sort of. It was a great blog. I used to go there. Thank you so much. We would write about these artists. And I was dipping my toe into the, I guess dipping my toe into some kind of journalism, but definitely DJing and also remixing.

I took on this new moniker. I became Baron Von Luxury. Because I really wanted to mark myself as a solo operation. I had some five. fights with the band and I was like not talking to them anymore. Let me ask a question. Were you going by luxury before you were Baron von Luxury? I had, I was luxury before Baron von Luxury. I had a disastrous tour of the UK. When we came back, I was not talking to the bass player or drummer anymore and I was just like,

going to do my own thing. I was like, what can I do where I don't need other people? It's kind of like the result of that. So I learned how to remix. I learned how to DJ. And those two skills kind of have, here we are today. Like those are two of the biggest things that I started to, in that moment learn how to do that became important later on. And this music that we're talking about today, this sort of like, you know, dance-friendly electronica, if you will, like, did it have an impact on your sound? It had such a huge impact.

And coming back to Empire of the Sun, this is one of, this might be the main band that I felt a connection with as far as this songwriting, but there's an electronic underpinning to it. That really worked for me. That's what I wanted to do. I didn't, I wasn't really, I mentioned a few other artists like, Flume and Chet Faker, those were sort of more DJ-centric.

This is dance floor. It's got some house overlap. Like you could play it in a house set, potentially, or retro set. What I was doing was a little bit harder to be on its own DJable. You would need the remix of what I was doing to make it DJable. But I was very attracted to a band making dancey music. I love that. Yeah. So that was a big thing for me. What about you, Diallo? Walking on a Dream comes out in 2008, and what are you doing in that moment?

probably canvassing for Obama. Well, you were DJ, right? Did you sing this on? Yeah, you know, it was an exciting time because, you know, I felt like the music that I like was like kind of becoming a little bit more mainstream. Not so mainstream is to be like, oh, I got here first, but like really like people were starting to dance to new sounds. And, you know, it was, it was exciting. And I think about how easy it was to discover new music that I truly loved, you know,

whether it was like Leaky Lee was like, you know, know, really big around this time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you're on the blogs, too. You're like scouting from new music. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The worst feeling was when you would go on a blog and you'd be like, oh, that remix is amazing.

And you click on it, it'd be like, you know, the copyright users remove this. Z share. Oh, yeah. Take down. Oh, my God. Z share. I feel like the Z share guy got like in huge legal trouble. I've never seen Z share.

It's been many years since I've seen a Z share. I haven't seen it. Mediafire still seems to exist. But you send it. I haven't seen you send it a long time. Yeah. But it was a great time because everybody was sharing. people were remixing.

And, you know, as long as you could find something that sounded decent, you didn't want to roll up in the club with all 128-bit, you know, MP3s. It's not terrible. You could tell. You could tell. It's noticeable. But, you know, anytime you can roll up there with 320, yeah.

Maybe 256, you were good. Yeah, yeah. And it was a good time. And it was a dance party. That was when I was DJing at places like the standard hotels, shortstop in Echo Park. And it was like sort of the height of the hipster movement. And are you playing?

all these bands? Are you playing all these... Australian electro bands? Absolutely. Class 6 was like a big remixer at the time. And, you know, Psychic City was a big... That was a big song. The yacht... Classics remix of a yacht song, right? Phoenix, Listamania.

You know, like, everybody was wearing American apparel. All the girls had on... All the cliches are true. I will say, one of my favorite stories from this period, and it shows the cross-pollination of so many different genres was you know, as I remember it, Steve Aoki

might have signed Kid Cuddy. This is before Kid Cuddy's Kid Cuddy. And he brought him out at the big Sunday night promotion. And it was a crazy night. Lindsay Lohan was there. And me and my friends were just there because we were like, we heard there was this dude who had Kanye's ear named Kid Cuddy. And he got out there and he performed day and night. I was just going to ask him. And it was the first time I had ever heard Day and Night.

Wasn't on the radio yet. Definitely was before the Crookers remix that took the World by Storm. Absolutely exploded. And it was just like the dance kids were hanging with the hip hop kids. And the rock kids were hanging with the dance kids. And it was crazy. It was wild. But that's a super important, like relevant.

This cross-pollination, it's black kids, it's white kids. It's rock. It's hip-hop. It's dance beats. It's all happening. And the fact that it's freely accessible, the fact this is, again, pre-Spotify, even pre-Utube, really. Like, you're not really, YouTube existed, but barely. Your ability to have the music, though, and to share it and trade it.

I think it's a really huge part of why it becomes. It was big, man. Global so quickly. It was big. Before we get too into it, it's funny to think that the scene where I was at that had all this wonderful dance music and hip-hop influence and rock influence, like with the clothes. What did we produce out of that scene? LMFAO. They were the big winners.

That was the big winners. They were the ones who took it all. They were the biggest blog house band. The biggest blog house band of all time is definitely LMS. That's so funny. They nailed the formula. They figured it out. We're laughing, but it is a true story that they took the formula of kind of blending.

Think about it. They danced like, they dress like rockers. It's the visuals. So much of it is like the American Apparel, Miami, the silly glasses and all that stuff. That was their thing. And they went to the top with it. They went all the way to the top. All right.

So let's get to the story of the song. How did walking on a dream get made? So let's talk a little bit about Empire of the Sun. Again, as we mentioned at the beginning of the show, not many people know that much about the band. They're a bit of a mystery. It's part of the vibe, actually, is sort of purposefully mysterious.

Lots of makeup on stage and their videos, a lot of, like, visuals are a big part of what their operations all about. But I'm going to tell you a little bit more about Empire the Sun. This band began when Luke Steele, which is, by the way, one of the greatest names, a human being can have. What is he born, Luke, James Steele? What is his mom name him?

He was actually born Luke J. Steele. And how hard is the J as like a middle initial? Luke James Steele. Like that's a masculine, manly name. And then there's Nick Littlemore who's in Pinald, another one of those bands that we were just alluding to. Part of this electro scene trading MP3s, kind of lo-fi remixes. They are starting to blow up though. And now I had heard of. I hadn't heard of Sleepy Jackson. Yeah, Sleepy Jackson, I don't think quite made the jump to the electro blog, blogosphere in the same way that Panao did. But Nick Littlemore is in this band, Pnau, he's half of Pnau.

He is actually introduced to Luke Steele, and they write a song together. And this is that song, this is a Sleepy Jackson song. It's called Tell the Girls That I'm Not Hanging Out. So a little bit of an experimental thing, and the two of them really get on well, but then they separate for a few years. They don't see each other for a few years. All right, so yeah, that's the song, Tell the Girls that I'm not hanging out on Sleepy Jackson's debut album, Lovers.

And I love this story. So like after helping Littlemore out on his art rock project around 2006, they have a falling out. Oh, yeah? They have a falling out. And to hear Nick tell it, he says, I'm a very intense person and I take things to heart. So they stopped working together. Oh, damn. So they just weren't talking.

Yeah, they just have some creative differences. That makes sense because years go by before they start working again. And around 2006, 2007, they get together and they have another writing session. And one of my favorite songs of all time, I literally play this every third DJ set to this day, is a Panao song with, it's sort of like the first Empire of the Sun song in a way, but it's Panau featuring Luke's Steele on vocals,

and the song is called With You Forever. That song just- It's a great song. It's something to me. It's a great song. The meeting of these two guys and the music they make together is just, I really connect with it so much.

To me is that voice that you immediately know. Oh, that's got so much emotion. He's like a yearning. He's like lost. He's... Oh, God! Yeah, it's really beautiful. It's really wonderful.

And I think you're going to say something about the impact this song had on the rest of their career. Completely. Well, I was going to say, let's cut to the second part of the song, because this is an important dynamic that they set up in this moment with this song, is the verse that sounds like that with regular voice. And then in the chorus, he goes into his falsetto, which is a formula they will repeat to much success. I just find this so haunting.

I'm literally getting chills in the room. Granted, it's very cold in here. I was going to say that's the temperature. But, yes, there's just something that really cuts to the core of Blake Robin of luxury as a person. A lot of people, you know, I think something that said incorrectly about dance music is that there's something cold and sterile about it. But there's, if you let it in, you'll get the chills. And I think that, you know, I think you're probably going to mention something about Elton, Sir Elton John. He plays a part in this story.

He plays a part in this story. And, you know, Sir Elton knows a. a song that can give you chills so perfect segue because this is from Pnau's 2007 album which is called Pnau to those writing along at home. This song caught the attention of a gentleman named Reginald Kenneth Dwight. Who the hell

is that? You may know him as Sir Elton Hercules. Oh, I would have thought Reginald Kettle White was a dude who grew up on my block in Atlanta. What up, Arndon? Elton John heard this record and said it was the greatest record he had heard in 10 years. Damn. And he signed them to a management deal and that was the beginning of a very close relationship where sort of acting as like a protege, whatever

you call the situation. Like we're taking care of them. The mentor is exactly right. Brings them into the fold, gives them some opportunities for exposure. And as we'll talk about a little bit later on this episode, gives them access to his STEM collection and to his archives to do creative things with, again, which will come into play a little later. But the good news is that the team is back together. Steel and Littlemore are working together again. That's right. And there's also, there's a couple more people who are involved in the story that I want to make sure are included in the story because a gentleman called Jonathan Donnie Sloan, who was in the band who had been previously in Sneaky Sound System, one of those,

another great band from the electronic Australian community. So at the time, and this was back in 2008 or so when Empire of the Sun just began to exist as a band and their first songs came out, there was a minute where there was some tension between Luke and Nick, the primary two members who you see in the videos of the band, and this third gentleman who's a friend of There's Donnie Sloan, who at the time claimed that he had basically had his songs taken from him. They were intended to be remixes by Pinal. We were just talking about the blog house culture. I'm deciphering a little bit.

So the good news is this ends in not acrimony, but they continued to work together. But for a minute there was some confusion, and this interests me a lot, about authorship, about whose songs these were. It sounds as though walking on a dream as well as some of their other hits. We Are The People, Maybe. started life some of the ideas musically come from Donnie Sloan. So he had been working with Littlemore and Steel on their earliest projects together. And a couple years later, he heard the final product and was like, that's a little familiar sounding.

There's something about my music that was intended to be a remix, but you guys have done something with it. And I've been cut out of it. In other words, he wasn't given songwriting credit. They kind of had a back and forth. It sounds like for a minute there was some tension, but they sorted it all out. He's now the third co-writer on the song.

It's actually a 33, 33, 33 split between Nick Littlemore and Mr. Steele and this guy, Donnie Sloan. And the good news is that they figured it all out. He continues to work with him to this day. I'm just going to read a quick quote from him. He says, I created these tracks on my own in 2005, long before Empire of the Sun existed. Musically, the template for Empire of the Sun is mine. They pulled the rug from under my feet, took my sound. I told Nick, I didn't want him to use the tracks. I was hoping to save them for my own project. So it's one of these things that you just really never know behind closed doors how the sausage gets made. Like who's the original? It's like the Sister Nancy episode.

Like, well, did the baseline cause the drumbeat, which caused the keyboard ideas to generate? Who is the originator here? So elusive. That's tough. It's really tough. And I'm sure he felt completely powerless when these songs blow up worldwide. That's exactly right. And I think I'm so glad that this story ends well with the friendship being intact and there being a very reason.

reasonable solution, it seems, financially. And again, the fact that they continue to work together on the next two records, he's got co-producer and co-writer credits on a lot of songs after that. So that makes me happy to... Now, you said that it's a three-way split, but there's a... You know, that would be Steele-a-Moor and Sloan. Right. What about the other half of Pinau?

Yeah, you're right. Peter Mays is the other half of Pinau. He's Littlemore's collaborator in that band. He's actually not on Walking on a Dream, but he is on a number of the other songs. Okay. On the album, he has also given a co-rower. and we've basically named the four main people in the Nexus, yeah.

Even though we only ever really see two of them in the videos and such, there's really four people making this music. Can I come up with a theory live on the air? Please do. Panau is P-N-A-U. And I have no idea what that means, by the way. I think it's Peter, Nick, Australia. Shut the fuck.

That is my theory. I'm going to ride with that. That's a brilliant. I mean, I can't think of anything better. I'm sure we can look it up. But you know what for once? Let's not look it up on the internet. What else could it be?

It's just this weird sound. I don't think it's coincident. In French, Pneux means tire. Whenever I see Pinau, I think it's like Pneau, Penao, Pneau. But that's a strange theory that I have. And I don't think it's anywhere near as accurate as yours. Apparently, chat GPT sounds a lot like cat, I farted in French. So every time the French are talking about, chat GPT, everybody's giggling.

Well, that's awesome. Now we actually know a lot more about this band that made this ubiquitous song. So after the break, we'll be playing some stems just for the thrill of it, the thrill of it. We'll be right back. Welcome back to one song. All right, let's get to the stems. We know what you people want. Let's play the stems.

Luxury, what do you want to play first? This is a wonderfully simple song. There's not a lot to play, but I will play for you the drum beat, and you're going to hear three different things. That's all there is throughout the entire song. It starts with a very simple beat. This is a programmed beat. I don't know where the sample song. sources doesn't really matter. It just sounds good.

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because you could have a drummer play. That sound wouldn't be that different, except the precision, the loopness of it all, becomes hypnotic. And I think that's part of what electronic music does. Well, you know, it's interesting. It's so wonderfully, yeah. I think it does it wonderfully.

I also think that this is where the 80s influence comes in because I like to imagine that the song that we're playing on one side, today is not the song specifically when we're listening to the drums because I'm like what other songs have something similar and my first thought was erotic city by prince which is one of our favorite songs here there's there's some similarities there yeah it could be the same lindrum you're right and the kick it could very much be the same drum machine the lind drum that uh that prince used ubiquitously that could be because that snare sound the snare sound in an electronic kit that sounds real is so often a lind snare yeah that's part of what it's so

big and full and rich. Yeah, so nice. And then there's one more part to the drums. It's in the bridge. And just for context, I'll play the full song in that moment. Yeah, it was like, I don't even recognize. See? We are always running for the thrill of it. See? Less is so

much more because when you hear it by yourself, you're like, whoa, that's stupid. But then I'm saying like, if the joke's on me it's dead simple. Because you can't, it goes back to Ringo, right? Like, you can't step on the groove. You know what I mean? Like, don't overdo it. It's not being overdone at all.

Well, let's move on to the bass. Very simple. It sounds like it's performed with all the high-end EQ'd out. And that's just the intro. And then most of the song, most of the rest of the song, has this four-cord loop.

And I'll give that to you... I'll give that to you with some drums so you can hear the context. There's that little fill at the end. That's great. I just like little fills like that. I'm going to play it isolated. It's actually a little flus.

which is proof that a human played it because it's a little bit more. But it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter in the middle. But you know, it sounds like a hot sweaty club with a low ceiling. Yeah. And like the band is, and there's like actually a band there. Right. And that's a cool vibe.

That's a cool vibe, right? So that's the rhythm section for the entire song. We've got the drums and bass that are doing that all the way through. Uh-huh. And by the way, I think they're doing it lovely. Yes. But I'm dying to hear about one of my favorite things. Is it a ukulele?

What is that guitar that is in this song so? prominently. Well, let's listen to the ukulele, which is a guitar, but it does have ukulele qualities. It's a guitar. It's a guitar. There's nothing like a hard ukulele. I remember still Dre. Dr. Dre hard use of a ukulele. But okay, so it's not a ukulele. I don't want to take that away from you, but for, it's a guitar, but for Diallo, it's a ukulele. And it's pretty much strumming that through the entire song. It's perfect. It's one of those things. It's simple, but it's perfect. Like, you were playing that and all of a sudden, I'm thinking, oh, we could remix this.

Like we could go in a completely different direction, but just use that element. Right, right. Well, you know what? I will see you after the podcast, sir. The guitar part acts, I mean, when it's combined with the bass and drums, I'll play that altogether. And then I'll mention something I was going to say about it. And by the way, that is nearly everything. There's only one part left. It's this kind of loop in the background, which that'll be the last stem I play for you.

But what you've just heard is the core of the song and think about how minimal it is. And yet how much space it fills up. but also how it acts as just a bed for that incredible vocal that we're about to hear from Luke Steele in a minute. No. So less is more. It's one of the themes of this episode. Absolutely. Don't overproduce.

Last but not least, is this, what I would say is a mysterious loop, a loop of mysterious origin. I wonder, this to me, when I think about the story of how Donnie Sloan's original, I don't have access to the demo, there really isn't any much online about this, I think, moment of disagreement because they figured it out so quickly. that there wasn't a lot of back and forth about it. There's just one article, like, in a very deep internet search that I found, that that was ever conflict. My point being, I can imagine that this that I'm about to play for you, this loop, might have been either the thing Pinao remixed from an original song, or it might have been what Donnie Sloan's original idea was, that they were inspired by.

I feel like we're like music archaeologists. I love that. We're archaeologizing. We're just found a layer. We're like, is this the Roman city or the Greek city? What level is this? Exploring in real time. Let's listen to the loop on its own. Iconic.

It's actually in the whole song, and it feels like it comes in and out a little bit, maybe because the bass comes in and out, and the drums do that Tommy thing. I'll play that moment for you. But it is in the stems always there. The guitar part is always there, too. So that loop is happening the whole time, and it's so hypnotic. Yeah. I feel hypnotized by this song.

This might as well be. we were just doing an episode recently about Doja Cat, walk on by, with the loop in the background, the sample loop. This kind of acts like a sample. I think it's the band performing, and you could think of it like they were sampling themselves in a way. They were turning their performance into a hypnotic loop in the same way. A hip-hop artist might do the same, a hip-hop producer.

I love this song. It would not be the song it is if it were an instrumental. We have to hear the vocals. These vocals are outstanding. Like you said, like, when he's singing full out, you hear his yearning, and then when he turns on the falsetto, it's super sweet. So luxury, my friend, can you play us some exciting vocals?

Would you like to hear Luke James Steele? I would like to hear Luke J. Steele. The dulcet tones of Luke J. Steele. Walking on a dream, how can I explain? Talking to myself. It's so pouty. Will I see again? Right? You have to do that with your brain.

It's very pouty. Totally. It's very cranky child. Fucking on a dream. It's very punk. I feel like Luke comes from like the punk school of singing. Yeah, of emoting with like. But yeah, like there's a hard out on this song.

It's not even teenage angst. It's like nine-year-old angst. It's like, wheeh. We are always running for the thrill of it. Always pushing up the hills searching for the three little bit. And then of course we get to that chorus with that gorgeous falsetto that will, I'm preparing. for the chills I'm about to have.

So beautiful. Now, I will admit, I've heard this song 800,000 times. I did not know what they were singing on the chorus. Yeah, no, it does help. I think I was like, I think it's one of the songs that you get like a whole room full of people

singing along when you're DJing it and everyone's going, what's a ba'ha! They're all kind of like phonying it out. The chorus is apparently, is it real now? Two people become one. It's a love song.

I can feel it. Two people become one. So it's a beautiful love song. Now that you know that, I feel like it will hit even harder when, because, you know, we always say like it's more important to experience music than to study it, even as music nerds. But yeah, this actually makes me appreciate the song even more.

No, it's true. You can study it a little bit. It's okay to study a little bit. Then take the magic away. I think every kid at the Berkeley School of Music was like, what does he mean? What does he mean you shouldn't study music? I'm turning off the podcast.

This is all I got. And there's one more section. Just keep going on. Wait, play it again. Is there a girl on the song? It sounds like there's a girl. He's married, and it could be his wife, because I know that they have a lot of collaborative projects together,

and it's a love song. So, you know, that could be, you know, that could be, you know, symbolic of what the song's meaning is. Yeah. But yeah, I never noticed either that there's... That sounds like a distinctly female vocal there. It's like two voices and it definitely sounds like... It's like two voices become one.

Oh, ho-ho. What did you do? What did you do? I just earned my paycheck. It feels like it's part of all... I broke down Pinaw, Peter, Nick, Australia, and now I'm talking about merging voices. A lot of theories, but it's a lot of mystery. So, like, this is a lot of mystery to the song. We may be pretty close to the truth for the first time.

after 15 years of this song being out there with not a lot of information about it. They are named after the Steven Spielberg movie, aren't they? They claim not to be. Really? I don't know if they're lying. What's that possible? They said that it's...

They're like, we're named Jaws. I've got a quote about that, actually. They claim to not have been inspired by the J.G. Ballard novel, which was made into a Spielberg movie. Right. Nick Littlemore goes, we're traveling around the world, going to all the places of empires of civilization,

where Sun has been a theme of worship, which could be... Hey, listen. Could be him getting tired of people asking the J.G. Ballard question, the Steven Spielberg movie question. That is true. And by the way, the way they dress on stage with these gigantic, you know, elaborate costumes really does not seem to have much to do with Imperial Japan or World War II.

It could be a sun thing. It could literally just be about traveling around. Empire of the Sun. Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. Let's take them at their word. They're artists. I love Panow. Yes.

But I do love Empire of the Sun in a different way because it is that combination of Panel and Luke Steele's vocals. And then you said it earlier, he does have a way of like singing the verse and then going into his falsetto on the chorus. And taking you to this melancholy place of just like love and dreams and sadness and poutiness all in one.

I want to play a snippet from one of my other favorite songs by Empire of the Sun. This is We Are the People. Check it out. That chord right there is so... When it goes minor on that chord. That's this melancholy like major seventh, That is the chocolate syrup on my ice cream.

That's a jazz chord. He just inserted a little jazz, a major seventh to my ear, but it's a little bit ambiguous. That's what's happening there. It is simultaneously kind of major and kind of minor. That's why that chord is so powerful. It's one of my favorite. It's so powerful.

I just love those minor notes that just hurt you a little bit. It hurts you a little bit. And this is another one where I'm realizing, I didn't know what the chorus said. The chorus apparently says, I can't do well when I think you're going to leave me, but I know I try. But I know I try.

But I know I try. But I'm going to try. I thought it was but I'm going to try. But I know I try. Are you going to leave me now? Can't you be believing now? That's the line that's, can't you be believing now?

It's like the Yayas episode. That's what cuts me to the core. That line, that idea of abandonment and love being the same, like having that connection. When you love someone, the power of that love is the fear of the leaving. The fear of the leaving's right behind the love. It's always there.

It's so funny. I think what we're trying to say is that it's always better when there's like something emotional there. And I think minor chords get us there, good acting gets us there. If it's a visual medium. And yeah, we are the people. You have a story with we are the people, don't you? The whole band, again, inspired Baron von Luxury, this next chapter of my musical identity, very much came out of an adoration of this blog house, Australian indie rock,

electronic music crossover. So I made this record called The Last Seduction, which was about my friend who passed away, who took her own life and her boyfriend who took his own life. All of that emotion, it's incredible for me to kind of listen back because it was many years ago.

And I feel like I can hear all of that happening when I hear these songs. And when I hear that song, I hear my relation to my friend who passed away, who was like an older sister. All this to say that I wrote a song about it called The Last Deduction, which as you were playing that,

I was like, Jesus Christ, I ripped the hell off of that song. But it is its own thing. But let's see if you can hear the connection. And I'll give you a hint. It's the acoustic guitar combined with the drums and the falsetto kind of takes you there. It's called The Last Deduction. This is the last deduction by luxury. It is on Spotify.

So there's so much happening emotionally for me. I don't hear we are the people at all. Are you sure that you ripped it off? That is the thing about, well, of course, I was a little bit being self-deprecating. I was definitely influenced and inspired, and what I took from it was really very simply the idea of acoustic guitar strumming over an electronic beat, which, by the way, Electronic Light Orchestra, ELO, one of my favorite bands of all time, it's one of a very common thing in their work as well. All this to say that when I hear it now back to back, I'm definitely connecting the emotional content.

This is a song about my love for a friend and them leaving me, and that same kind of dichotomy of love and loss all in and just emoting about, you know, at the time, an inarticulate feeling turned into a song for me. So I'm just hearing it back right now kind of with some pride. Like, this is not music that did very well in the world at the time. Not a lot of people heard it. But it's one of these things where I'm like, well, I'm glad I made it. We're glad you played that and shared that. It's funny that you bring up ELO because I feel like ELO has influenced many different people

in many different genres. But this one in particular, you can't talk about Empire of the Sun. and Panao without sort of bringing up their frequent collaborator, Lady Hawk. And she said that, you know, she basically just always wanted to make an ELL record. And I'm just going to play a snippet of one of her songs that I love, which is Back of the Van. I mean, that sounds like that could have been a Panao slash Empire the Sun. Right. Slash.

I thought you were going to play Embrace, which is on the Penao record. It's one of my favorite songs of all time. Also Lady Hawk on vocal. Yeah. Totally. So many of these songs have in common, like the swinging for the fences in the chorus, don't they? You know what it is? I'm realizing now it is like it's a disco song made with sort of more modern electronics obviously. But like with a real sort of rock Stevie Nix ELO vibe.

Totally. And again, I think that's a function of who was making it. Those were the songs that were out when some of us were in the womb. And we're just trying to reproduce that sound. Can I just put this out there? Because I know this is a shared love that we both have. Could it also have some connection to this? Especially that song Embrace.

Right? Yeah. This could be a blockhouse. The more aggressive beginning of this song is what they are absolutely doing. This is so, that's so Zanadu. And that's where the muses are roller skating off of the wall. This is Zanadu with Olivia Newton John. Absolutely.

With the soundtrack by E.L.O. with Olivia Newton John. Could absolutely have been a 2008 blog house. Yeah. We're talking, we're talking all Aussies. That's Australia. We're talking all Ozzy's today. There's that connection. I don't even think about that.

I didn't even think about that. A better way to talk about, uh, Panao and a song, another song out of this camp that everybody has heard quite a bit in the past few years. Luxury, what do you want to say about cold, cold heart? Right. So, no, you're absolutely right. Panau kind of went secondary when Empire the Sun blew up. But they've continued to exist.

They've continued to have their relationship with Elton, with Sir Elton. I'm going to call him Reggie Kenneth from now on. Reggie Ken. Reggie Kay. And just a couple years ago during the pandemic, they made a humongous song. It was everywhere.

It's approaching. We just talked about how this song's in the Billion Club. This song's approaching two billion streams. And the song is called Cold Heart. It's the Pinaw remix. It's Elton John with Dua Lipa. And what's really cool about this song and what I love about how it was made

is that it is not just, it's a virtual duet, first of all, because this is pandemic era. But this really blurs the line between remixing, sampling, mashups, and interpolation. Because it's a song that uses Four Elton John songs

is kind of a medley, but it also has, it's three samples and two interpolations. And to my ears, I just think it just is a song. Like, it doesn't really sound like the Frankenstein

that I just described it to be. And I'm going to play it now. So, I mean, he gave them access to, so many of his songs. It's Cold Heart. The name of the song is Cold Heart. Is this an old Elton John song that I just don't know? It's not an old Elton John song, but it's got four Elton John songs in the mix. And I'm going to tell you how that happened. It's super interesting how all of

these songs were interpolated, sampled, et cetera, into a new entity and put together. So, it originally started when Nick from Pinaw slash Empire of the Sun chopped up a vocal sample of this song by Elton John from 1989. This song is called Sacrifice. And this part. And again, think about how the acapella is being stripped from the, from the musical underbed. Yeah. That song's, that's a major, that was happening in major.

But in the song's context, that's underneath some minor chords, which sort of totally changes the tone. So it's not, it's not a sample. It's definitely an interpolation on, on Elton's behalf, correct? That is, that is the acapella from that song sampled and reused in this new context. So Elton didn't re-sing it? It's a human. That to me is a sample.

My understanding of the story is that it came from the sample. Oh, that's crazy. And to my ears, that is when you just take the a cappella out and you're not needing, when the musical bed is gone, you have a lot more freedom. And literally, in this case, cold, cold heart. You could do that, but they actually kept it in key. But what's interesting is when he sings cold, cold heart, listen to the chord underneath his major.

I'll just play it for you. Yeah. Very major. Mary major. But in the song, there's a minor chord when he hits. It's that note. Yeah. Right?

It's really interesting how the context is everything. And also, you'd feel like you'd just go to Elton and be like, hey, do you want to re-sing this? Yeah. They could have done that. But they were like, nah, no, no, no. We want that. No, don't forget this is during pandemic times.

So part of the, like, I think mission of the song was like, let's write music together, but we can't hang out. So take from the archives, take from the Stems archives. We'll just email it to you. We'll just email it to it. Absolutely. We'll email you a two billion stream hit. How about that?

What is the, no, no, no. Oh, no. Well, let's keep going. Here is where the song then went to Peter Mays. We were talking about him earlier. The second half of Pinau, who added chords and bass. And for the chorus, he mashed up the verses from two different songs. One of them is this one, which you'll recognize very quickly. And I think you know what I'm going to say, what Dua did to that. She, uh, did she sample it? Or did she? I think she. Interpolated it. This is an interpolation or.

Interpolation of that moment, that Dua Lepa. Is that from Rocket Man? That is Rocket Man. That's right. That's originally Rocket Man from Honky Chateau, one of the best talent titles of all time, 1972. And she re-sang it. So that's an interpolation.

It's an interpolation. Of that moment. So we got an interpolation from that, but we're not done yet. And we're still in the chorus section. In the pre-chorus, Peter Mays took this idea from Kiss the Bride from 1983. And in the context of Cold Heart, it's reused. like this. So what's interesting about that is that in the original song Kiss the Bride, those two parts are about a minute apart. But then they brought them together. And they sound

great. And they sound great. And it's the original sample from the a cappella stem is Elton. And then Dua is re-singing on top. Interpolating. Interpolating it technically. So it's an interpolation and a sample at the same time. It's so cool. All of these different transformations. All of these ways to transform other material and create something new out of it. We've got a couple more to go. We're nearly done. We're nearly done. You know what I'm waiting for. And then the coda of the song, the sort of part at the end that comes in is from Where's the Shura, a song from Blue Moves, Elton John's 1976 album. And I'll play that for you now. And I should say there's five little moments that are used. That's one of them. That's fun. We found it. No doubt my part. There it is. That's the one we

were looking for. Shura? So when I just played for you in a row, those five elements happen at three minutes, 40 seconds, 154, they're all through the song, and then in cold heart, here's where they're used. They're just like little

icing on top sprinkled throughout the song. You can hear him say surea now that you know what that is. Never was looking for it. What's cool, though, is that like we've just been talking about earlier about how looping and sampling you'll often hear kind of an element become, as it's looped through the entire song, it becomes kind of hypnotic. These are samples used for a different purpose, which is just to add a little bit of interest,

like something new that pops up and goes away, that maybe is hooky. Like, it's the one you were excited to hear, right? But it doesn't happen that much in the song. And then last but not least, and this is pretty important. So there's this expression where there's a hit, there's a writ. As soon as this song started to get high on the charts, I think it eventually hit number one. Yeah. It was Elton's first hit in about 20 years.

Someone at Defected Records. There's going to be a lawsuit. There's a lawsuit. Yeah. So Chicken Lips is now cut into the song as a result of that baseline. Yes. Okay. What year is the Chicken Lips song?

That's from 2000. And if you want to compare it, here is how at least the publishing negotiators, you know, in the conversation they brought up this. It's the baseline, right? Yeah. Which I'm not sure I'm crazy about it. Let's hear the Chicken Lips. A baseline's a baseline. You know, if I'm chicken lips, I might pick up the phone.

I might pick up the phone. I can understand why they would make an effort to see what they can get out of it. That's not an egregious. You know, I always say this show is very anti-the-blurred lines decision. Yeah. And we want people to do what they got to do. That said, I understand why, you know. Get chicken lips all the phone.

So they get cut in. They actually get 20% of these millions of dollars. Right on. Right on. It's a big song. So good on it. It's a big song. Okay.

So now it's over 15 years since Walking on a Dream dropped. It's like we said earlier, it's been streamed over a billion times. Diallo, why do you think it's endured? What is so special about this song to you? I think it's just catchy. And I think sometimes there are songs that are wonderfully. What's funny is that they sound simple, but nothing is this simple. And I think that those of us who like a good dance song, this was always like one of ours that sort of made its way through.

It reminds me of, doses of mimosis is another one that came out, you know, within the last 15 years. There are always like a couple of dance songs that make their way through walking on a dream. I don't think it was even big in the United States until it was in that Nissan commercial. Right. So it's just like. Yeah, outside of the blog house community, you're right. Yeah.

We knew it, but not everyone else. I feel like electronic music in general benefits from commercials and ads. Yeah, that's right. This was never like a charting huge single at the time. Days Go By by Dirty Vegas. First time a lot of us heard it was when that girl was dancing in the car. Right. Feist 1, 2, 3, 4, right? Oh, Sophie Tucker.

Big hit, you know, with the ad community. And hey, no shame in our game, because at the end of the day, I think more people would listen to this. But let's be honest, terrestrial radio doesn't really support dance music in this country the way it supported in other countries. That's why

you got to listen to SiriusXM and Pandora folks, because they got the truth. But seriously, I do think that, like, however people get exposed to music, whether it's because they come out and hear as DJ, or they're part of the culture, or they just hear it on a commercial, whatever it takes, I think there's something wonderful about a good pop song. I agree. Couldn't set it by myself. Okay. It's time for one more song. This is where we share a new song with you, the One Song

Nation, as well as with each other. Let's do this. Luxury, what song do you have for us today? I'm going to start out with Local Boy. This is Lewis Cole. This is from his most recent record quality over opinion. Multi-instrumentalist, multi-talented, very funny guy, a lot of cool videos. And this track is called Park Your Car on My Face. I didn't see that coming. I really like that. Insanely funky and funny at the same time.

But the talent is insane. If you ever watch, definitely watch his videos, he's a sick drummer, sick, sick, sick drummer. Like insanely. You can tell, even when the keyboard stamps come in. It's very percussive. It's so percussive. It's so funky. And it's also funny and really talented guy.

I'm a big fan. I like that one a lot. I'd love to hear your one more song. What you got? I have a song called Straight Out of Newham or Newham. I think it's Newham. And the artist is Burnah. We've talked about Roy Ayers on the show.

I love Roy Ayers. Love everybody loves the Sunshine. We're definitely doing it. This song samples. Everybody loves the sunshine in a new way. I already love it. Here it is, straight out of Newham. Slow did you go. Did you all crypto binance?

So my young boy rise up early. In the band, I'm checking your timestamp. Yeah, I like that. But I think he could have swore I heard him say, new um. So I think I was pretty close to. That accent, that like deep London accent. It's so beautiful. It's so fun to listen to.

I'm going to go out on a limb, by the way, and say that I don't think that that may not be a sample. It may be in. Pregnant pause. Interpolation. I think, I think it's a replay. Yeah, yeah. It could be the real thing, but it sounds like a replay. We'll do our research for the next episode. one more song. Absolutely.

All right. As always, if you ever have an idea for one more song, you can find us on Twitter. X, if you really want to call it that. You don't have to say that. You can find us on Instagram or TikTok. On Instagram, I am at Diallo, D-A-A-L-O. On TikTok, I am at Diallo-R-R-R-L-L-O. And I am luxury with two X's, L-U-X-X-U-R-Y.

On Instagram. I'm also on Spotify under that name, and you can find the one-song playlist there. It's got every episode and all the songs we play on that episode. That's got all the songs. All the cursory songs. All the songs that reminded us of songs. We put it all up there. I'm also on TikTok, Luxury X, X. And don't forget, if you're listening on the podcast platform and you like the show,

please give us five stars and leave a review, it really helps and share with all your friends. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Luxury, why don't you help me in this show? All right. Well, I'm producer, DJ, musicologist, and songwriter Luxury. And I'm actor, writer, director, and sometimes DJ, D'Lar Riddle. And this is one song. See you next time.

See you next time.