One Song - Grammy Predictions + Listener Mailbag

Episode Date: January 16, 2025

Do awards shows make you cry? If so, you've come to the right place. Join Diallo and LUXXURY as they break down this year's Grammy nominees and share their predictions for who they think will win.  Plus, they’ll answer some of your DMs and dive into the story behind the sample in Kendrick Lamar’s “Squabble Up.” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Lectury, today on one song, we're going to be partaking in a time, honor, tradition for every music fan, telling the Grammys what they got wrong. Absolutely. That's right, Diallo, we're going to be talking about this year's Grammy nominees. What songs we think will win in their respective categories and what songs we personally think should win. And also, in this episode, we will be answering listener questions. That's right, your questions about all kinds of music concerns. Including Breaking Down what's really going on with that interpolation. in Kendrick Lamar's Squabble Up.

All that and more coming up on One Song. I'm actor-director and sometimes DJ Diallo Riddell. And I'm producer, DJ, songwriter, and musicologist, Luxury, aka the guy who whispers, Interpolation. And if you want to watch one song, please go to our YouTube channel and watch this full episode. And while you're there, please like and subscribe.

All right, now, before we get started today, look, we're in Los Angeles. So we want to take a moment to acknowledge the victims of the wildfires that are tearing through our city right now. Our hearts go out to you. I feel like everything in the mood of the city is very weird. It's oddly tense. Barring any future once-in-a-decade windstorms, we might be through the worst of it. But yeah, it's just a little bit weird here today.

It's strange times. It's hard to be normal, but I got to say it is nice to do this show. It kind of provides a little structure when things are a little bit floppy out there. A comforting normality. Yeah. When things are otherwise not very feeling very normal. Both of us evacuated. I'm still kind of dressing out of my, you know, luggage.

Our heart's hurt for everybody affected, from the Palisades to Silmar. Altadena is a historically black neighborhood. My family, when they first came out here at the turn of the last century, 1905, 1907, a lot of them settled. There are a lot of riddles in Altadena. And also there are working class musicians out there. There's some people that you and I know who were able to make art for a living, save up their money, and buy a house there.

So whether you're in Altadena or any of those places, we just feel awful and it's so sad. And it'll be years before we fully understand what we have lost. I just read that Madlib, the very famous producer, lost so much of his record collection in this fire. We're talking about rare records, just so much stuff that's just gone, just plain old gone. And if you're looking for something to do to help from miles away, potentially, I am going to post a couple links in my link tree, you know, the link in bio if you go to any of my profiles. A friend of mine who lost his house, his GoFundMe is up there as well as a few other links that I'll be adding. So check that out.

Anything helps. Yeah, it's a strange time to be living in L.A., but we'll get through this. And, you know, sometimes music and art just in general can help people through hard time. So we're going to keep the episodes going and we're going to keep wishing our city. and our state the best, you know, we will rebuild. And look, 2025 is still young. We are working hard as we prepare to bring you a whole year of wonderful, super cool one-song episodes built around one song.

But before we get going, we do want to do one more episode about the Grammys, as well as your letters to us. Just as we were starting to record this episode, we got notified that the Grammys will still be happening as of this recording on. February 2nd. To that point, we had planned on doing sort of a Grammys part of this episode, in addition to your letters. And Luxury, when you're talking about the Grammys, before we dive into any kind of predictions or anything like that, is there a memorable time where you think the Grammys got it right?

I think famously the answer is no. And one of my favorite examples of that is when Metallica was a relatively new band, and they were one of the biggest metal band in the world. And there was a brand new category that was added to the Grammys called Hard Rock Performance of the Year. And that went not to Metallica, but to Jethro Tull. 70s flute rockers, Jethro Tull, who won hard rock album of the year in the time of metal. So, no, I think one thing about the Grammys, and this has always been a perennial issue, is that what exactly is it celebrating? Is it celebrating innovation?

Is it celebrating popularity? Right. Is it celebrating pushing the medium forward? Is it some of all of it? Is it none of the above? I'm glad you bring it up because, listen, first off, full disclosure, I did a show called Sherman Showcase. And one of our producers on that show was Harvey Mason Jr. Who is now the head of the Grammys.

And I think it actually is sometimes way too easy for people who love music to beat up on the Grammys. Because I typically find the music that we're excited about is not often the music that's being. nominated, much less awarded. Right. And I think that comes from the almost insurmountable task of the Grammys to nominate within the field of music. Think about there are as many songs coming out today as there were in all of 1987 or whatever that statistic is.

Like every day somebody is dropping new music onto Spotify. So even more than when the Grammys got started, there's just almost way too much music out there. And you're never going to please everybody. I think that the Grammys probably had a really good run in the 80s because even though there were still a lot of music out there, pop was so big and looms so large. And you could sort of agree,

okay, well, we're probably going to nominate Michael Jackson, Prince, Madonna. Like, it was very easy to wrap your hands around it. But I feel like since the 90s,

it's been pretty much impossible because there's so many different types of music and not everybody listens to everybody else. I think those categories that I just sort of almost arbitrarily throughout they're like, is it popularity? Is it innovation? whatever. I think there was a time. Like, think about it, in the 80s, coming out of the 70s, even into the 90s, there are still kind of new genres that are forming and splintering off into subgenres. And while we still have those to a certain degrees, I was listening to everything on the entire Grammy nomination in the playlist today. There's a lot of incredible music. I will say there's a lot of great new songs, great new artists. There's a lot of bands I'm excited about that are finally getting there due when we talk about the best new artist category. But there isn't what I would say is the

innovation in quite the same way. And when I say innovation, what I mean is everything I heard, I could hear what came before that maybe reminded me a little bit of the new thing. There are in the 80s, there were new machines. So you were hearing new sounds. You were hearing the Lindrum and then you heard the 808, then you heard the 909. We don't really have that type of innovation anymore. We have recombinations, I would say.

That's true. But I'm so glad you bring up there were new machines because right now we are living in a time of some new machines. And one song in particular probably wouldn't exist if it weren't for machines. All right, so let's start with the big one, record of the year. And as we've explained on the show before, I will explain again, because it's the question that people are always confused by. The difference between record of the year and song of the year is that record and song

and song are both songs, and sometimes some of the songs appear on both of those lists in both categories. The difference is that song of the year is about the publishing. It's about the songwriting, the publishing, the writing, abstracted from it being recorded. So in other words, you could play any of the eight songs for Song of the Year on the acoustic guitar, and the judgment would be based on which of them, was the best in that format, whereas record of the year is the recording. I'll put it like this.

Purple Rain could get nominated for Song of the Year, but if I'm singing it, it's probably not going to win record of the year. That's probably true. Hey, I can say that. Sorry. You were setting me up. I thought you were supporting your idea. I totally threw you under the bus, man.

Maybe the biggest story this year is that one band will be returning to this category, record of the year, for the first time since 1971. And guess what? It's the beattles. I've never heard of them. Oh, the Beatles. Los Beatles. The Beatles are back. Nominated for what is being built as their final collaboration, their final single. It's called Now and Then.

We've also got Beyonce's Texas Hold'am. I think we know that song. Sabrina Carbenter's Espresso, which we talked about for the first time on this show during our songs of summer episode. Back in June, go check that episode out if you missed it. And rounding out the category, we've got Charlie X, X, EX with 360. We got Billy Elish with birth of a feather. We've got Kendrick Lamar, not like us. Chapel Ron with Good Luck Babe and Taylor Swift and Post Malone's collab Fortnite. So, Diyah, what do you think which of these songs should win record of the year?

I'm on the spot, huh? And what song do you think the Grammys will end up going with if it's not that same song? Let's go reverse. Going with, you can never rule out Taylor Swift taking home Grammys. That's where the popularity contest factor comes into play. You've got Post Malone. You've got Taylor Swift. Gosh, can I admit, I hope it's not Fortnite, but I think it might be Fortnite.

Yeah. Fine song. I have nothing against it. When I hear it, it reminds me of about 50 tracks in my unfinished track database from the era when I was making this sort of synth-poppy sound. Absolutely. The drive soundtrack was in the air. Absolutely. College, a real hero.

A real hero. Let's play a little snippet of that because I'm definitely hearing the same thing you are when you mention that song. When I moved to L.A., there's a whole movement, a whole bunch of us. We're doing music like this. My buddy Josh, before he was called Gold Room, was making music as night waves. My buddy Ken was Keenhouse, and we all did shows together in L.A., and we all had these sort of synth-pop songs that this song reminds me of.

So if we had only waited 12 or 13 years to put out our music, it might have been in contention. And gotten Taylor Swift and Post Malone to sing on top of it. You know, our tracks might have been in contention. What is your pick for this category of luxury? Who do you think will win and who should win? I'm on the fence because I think you're right about Taylor Swift having the homefield advantage, as it were, the industry advantage. I think though a lot of people are rooting for Chapel Rowan. she could be sort of the surprise upset

but I kind of feel like not like us was the song of the year that felt like the, I don't think it will win but I think it should win. I don't think it will win. I think it was pretty inescapable. I also got to say after that I didn't really know it was going to happen but the Christmas halftime show

the Beyonce put on, I feel like a lot of voters were still voting at that time and how can you deny Yeah, how can you deny just Cowboy Carter in general? Like I feel like this was a, this is a very strong look for Beyonce to maybe take this one home. Before we move on from this category, though, I really like what you said about innovation in music.

Like the Charlie X-Ex album to me, like it had so much innovative stuff. For me, as a person who loves dance music, it almost reminded me of the Beyonce Renaissance album. But we would be remiss if we didn't talk about some other innovation in this category. And that's specifically about the Beatles song now and then. I guess when Peter Jackson was preparing his get-back documentary

on the group. Yeah. They worked on all this material that allowed people to basically create stems out of almost anything. Like it doesn't even have to be like the finished recording. They had this old John Lennon demo. Right. And they were able to finally fish a little bit more of his vocals out because I guess

according to Paul, they weren't able to really hear some of his vocal. Sometimes the piano would come in bleeding too loud and they didn't know what John's voice was doing there. So there's machine larning on now. And then I'm sure that you have, you know, some more information on. that and some opinions you want to share. Yeah, I mean, frankly, no shade against Peter Jackson's incredible technology, but I mean, it's a little bit of PR fluff going on here in that we've had the ability to clean up and isolate parts of Peter Jack with the PR. Let's hear about it.

What they've done is they're certainly in front in terms of the field. So the ability to take an old dusty demo tape with piano recording and, you know, the room noise and cheap microphone and everything and get enough of John isolated from the rest of it. Yeah. But it's, is also at the same time kind of just where we are with technology we already had. So EQ and isolating based on waveforms. We kind of have this, the equivalent of this and lots of software. It's a little bit what Melodyne is based off of, which is a kind of pitch correction software. So again, no, not taking anything away from these incredible engineers in Peter Jacksonland. I do think, though, that, you know, this isn't the first Beatles song where we've taken a John Lennon

demo tape. It's just the cleanest version of a John Lennon vocal we have from one of those tapes. And look, from their previous 1990s sessions gave us one of my favorite. Free as a Bird. Beatles songs of all time. Free as a Bird. That is up there in my, easily in my top 10, might even be in my top five currently, just because it's a Beatles song I didn't live with my whole life. So I love this in theory.

And bringing it, and it's same thing, they brought Jeff Lynn from ELO in to be the producer to sort of bring it all together. It feels like a Beatles song. Can we talk about it, though? You listen to it, right? Yeah. Here's the thing. The beginning of it does sound like AI John Lennon.

Like it doesn't quite say. There's something uncanny. There's something in that uncanny valley there. Also, before I knew that there was any AI, any machine on this whatsoever, I did notice I was like, it seems like the Ringo star vocals are really high up in the mix. And then you find out, oh, no, this was done recently with Paul and Ringo. And you're just a little bit like, did Ringo say like, hey, man, you know, I have a pretty noticeable voice.

Can I put my voice in a little bit more than your typical beat of song? Because you don't typically hear the Ringo vocals. And before I even knew any sort of AI chicanery was going on here, I was like, was this one of Ringo's songs, the hero? Because his vocals are way up in the mix. I mean, it's a fine song. It's not record of the year. If it's in contention for record of the year,

that tells you a lot about, again, the Grammy committee and some of the procedures that go into it is the nostalgic factor. It's like, we want the Beatles to win again. Next up, we've got album of the year. And the big question is, will they finally give Beyonce this Grammy? She's been nominated for the award four other times, and she's lost every single time.

It's getting to the point where other winners don't believe their albums are as good as Beyonce. Just take a listen to this clip from Adele accepting her award for 25, which beat out Beyonce's lemonade back in the 2017 ceremonies. I can't possibly accept this award, and I'm very humbled, and I'm very grateful and gracious. but my artist of my life is Beyonce in this album for me.

The lemonade album was just so monumental, Beyonce. I mean, the history of Beyonce losing awards, you could say, sort of gave birth to Taylor Swift because it was when Beyonce didn't win that single ladies that Kanye took the stage. I'm going to let you finish.

I'm going to let you finish, but Beyonce. I'm really happy for you. I'm going to let you finish. But Beyonce had one of the best videos of all times. And then I didn't really know Taylor Swift before that, but then Taylor Swift was huge. And now she just has this pattern. It's like Susan Lucci for all you, all my children viewers, daytime Emmy fans out there. Did she eventually win one recently?

I think she eventually won one. Yeah, okay. Yeah, and it was like a sympathy award. Because those soap operas don't occupy the same space in the culture. Cowboy Carter is losing all the time. Especially after Renaissance, Cowboy Carter is a fine record. But Renaissance to me was... That's the one I go to more often.

We'll always have a place in my playlist. But I like Cowboy Carter, because I liked how she took that opportunity to sort of reclaim the cultural role that black people played, not even just in the creation of the music, but in its continuing popularity. And we're going to talk a little bit about that

when we get to Shibuzi. One of the problems with the Grammys is that there is this tradition of like, well, we messed up the first time, so we'll give it to you in a year where it's not really the best record and all these other records get shafted. Now I sound like a Grammy apologist.

That I give them a lot of, leeway on because I always feel like actors and this is not my, a lot of people feel this. Sean Connery wins for the untouchables, you know, he doesn't win for any number of the movies that people feel like he was the greatest thing possible. So, you know, if she wins for Cowboy

Carter, then I feel like that's just as good. But, you know, look, Beyonce, most Grammy Award winning artists of all time. Yeah. She's not hurting for anything. She's not missing anything. But it would be nice to recognize her finally with the album of the year award. Yeah. I would

Personally, though, I would scrape the bottom off and write in Renaissance and Lemonade underneath it, like a co-win for those previous ones. That would be my write-in candidate. I hear that. I hear that. I won't. I can't lie. Like, countries just, it's never been my favorite genre. So, yes, Renaissance and Lemonade would have made me happy.

But if she gets it for Cowboy Carter, damn it, I am going to put on the chaps. Yeah. And by the way, I mean, what a year it's been for black people in country music. So, like, I think some recognition of that, whether it's in this category or, you know, the song of the year, which we'll be getting to. And just a little bit. It'd be wonderful for one of those to win. Speaking of country music, there's someone else nominated in this category. Country music.

Is Taylor Swift still country music? No, I don't really think so. She's far beyond that. That is the world in which she emerged. Yeah, but she's left it far behind. Yes. But she's also nominated for her Torture Poets Department record, which she announced last year's award,

while accepting the Grammy for Best Pop Vocal Album. I say thank you to the fans by telling you a secret that I've been keeping from you for the last two years, which is that my brand new album comes out April 19th. It's called the Tortured Poets Department. We've also got 1003,000's flute album,

New Blue's Sun, Sabrina Carpenter's short and sweet, Charlie X, The X's Brad, an album so dominant, took over an entire season of the year. We've also got Jesse, Volume 4 by Jacob Collier, Hit Me Hard and Soft by Billy Elish,

and Chapel Rones, The Rise and Fall, of a Midwest Princess O luxury. That is a rough category. This might be the first time since the 80s that, look, maybe the albums that I, you know, consumed over and over again in 2025, Justice Never Ender, may not be in this category nominated,

but it's a tough, it's a tough bunch of nominees. Who do you think is going to walk away with a win? And who's sort of your top five here? You know, at the end of the day, it wouldn't surprise me if the spoiler ended up being the Andre 3000 record. I can kind of see the year. I don't see that happening. And a year of female pop stars with six female pop stars in this category,

it would sort of make Grammy sense for the winner to be Andre 3000 from Outcast. The flute album. Give me your balance. There's some strange distorting. We're voting on Andre. We need some testosterone. There is some strange distorted Grammy logic to that. However, I think that's an outlier.

And if I'm putting my money down, it's a difficult call. I'm going to separate my personal opinion. I think the Charlie XX record, Brad, is the most listened to record of the. the year for me personally. I don't know if we're in a bubble. I would say, I would think it would probably be Charlie X-E-X, but I think we're like in an L.A., New York. I don't think she's going to win. I don't think she's going to win. It's what I would vote for, but I don't think she will win. So those are two outliers, but what I think will win, I think it might be Chapel Rowan. I think she may be the comeback hit of the year in a sense, because she's been around for a

a minute. And everyone's really rooting for her. And I think, I think there's a sense that Taylor needs a needs a moment off from being at the top of the heat. I got to say, if there's torture poets, I'm crossing my fingers. I feel like something's wrong. But I do think that, sorry,

Swifties, but I think that if it's Beyonce or if it's Charlie, then I can, because I like those albums. I like those albums. What's your vote, though? What do you want to win

and what do you think will win? Man, I'm scared of what's going to win in this category. I think torture is going to win. You think it's going to win? Okay. Yeah.

Because I tend to watch award shows brokenhearted. Wait, wait, wait, Wait, why do you watch the award as brokenhearted? Man, because, listen, I'll be honest, there's still a part of me that cares a little bit about Grammys. Like, it shouldn't. It's even less than, like, movies where, like, there's a set number of movies. Yeah.

You know, that have, like, any sort of, like, big numbers or like, so you can, you can put them all in a box and say, this one wins for amazing artistic achievement. Music is still all over the place. So I'm really just watching because I once was an intern at the Grammy Foundation right out of college. and I sat at a desk and you couldn't tell me that I hadn't made it at that point like I was in LA I was working for the Grammys

and I would tell everybody who listened they were like why do you have music coming out of your computer I was like because I because I'm using the bandwidth to listen to the BBC Radio One and I was like these are songs that are popular all over the planet

and I would tell them and they were like well that seems like piracy like why should you be able to hear the BBC like everything I presented to them they saw as a problem and it's so weird because now it's like 25 years later and most of those people have either retired or except that the new world that I tried to introduce to them at the turn of the century.

But that's what I think the Grammy should be for too. I don't think it should be the rich getting richer. I don't think that Taylor needs another award. I would love for Chapel Rowan or Charlie X-CX who we know about, we've been listening to all year and a lot of people know about, but like they deserve, they deserve a Grammy. I think that's missing sometimes from not just the Grammys, but nowadays, even like the VMAs and some other places. It's that sense of like... Something new and fresh happens. Yes, like that they're going to reward somebody who, a new generation.

New to the scene or doing something really innovative. Sometimes it does seem like they're giving the awards to the same people. Yeah, yeah. But yet I will definitely be watching on February 2nd on CBS. And they've paid me nothing to say that, but I will be there. Sitting, crying. All right. Well, over on the Song of the Year nomination side of things,

we have a few repeats from the record of the year category. In fact, five of the same songs. Interestingly, there's two new songs in this category. And there's Sabrina Carpenter again, but with a different song, which is interesting. Shibuzi's record breaking. a bar song, parentheses tipsy, which ran for 19 weeks at the top of the Billboard Hot 100. We've also got Lady Gaga and Bruno Mars die with a smile.

And like I said, the second Sabrina Carpenter song is, please, please, please. Actually, D. All, kind of fun fact, there's only been one time in history where a songwriter has received the Song of the Year award two years in a row, and that was DeMile, who co-wrote, I Can't Breathe by her. The artist, H-E-R. H-E-R. Her. And then in 2022, he was a co-writer on that Silk Sonic track, Leave the Door Open. The door open. One of my faves.

And you know what? He might have a chance to win again this year. It would be his third win, not three in a row. But it's still impressive because he is nominated again for Die With a Smile, which is the Lady Gaga Bruno Mars song. So we're gunning for you, D. Mile. So could that happen this year with someone else? Crazily enough, it could.

Because Billy and her brother, Phineas, Billy Eilish, of course, who won the award last year for the song, what was I made for from the Barbie soundtrack? They're up again for Birds of Another great song. I hate to say it, but anytime. Billy and Finnis get nominated. They could easily very well win this category. They're so good.

They're great songwriters, great production team, and I just like them as people so much. Like the brother and sister, the protective nature that they have for each other in any interview and sort of everything you see with them is really charming. I have to ask, I mean, this is a category that's near and dear to your heart,

given what you do for a living. Like, who do you look at and you're like, that songwriter or songwriters? Their output is impeccable. They should absolutely win. Do you have a favorite? This is a really hard category. Again, if you strip away production and just exclusively, what's the song?

There's a disadvantage for a Kendrick Lamar not like us, frankly, because so much of hip-hop is production. And when you get an acoustic guitar and try to do not like us, I don't know that it comes up against birds of a feather in quite the same way. It doesn't mean it's not in contention, though. It's still an incredible song. I'm on the fence between Not Like Us and Birds of a Feather. And, man, gun to my head. Please don't put a gun to my head. Not today.

I would have to go with for song of the year. Again, record of the year. Not talking about, you're handed a sheet of paper. It's got some notes on it. Who do you go with? I'm going to go with Birds of a Feather. Wow. Yeah.

What about lyrics? I mean, like, because, you know, sometimes those lyrics can paint a picture. They can tell a story. Right. They can reveal history. I mean, like, you know, that third verse of not like us really does run down like some incredible Atlanta history. And to hear like little kids like rap in that.

stuff right back out. You make a really solid point. In spite of the disadvantage, maybe it has because you don't have the original beats in production that sort of enhance the energy level of the song. Islated from that and just looking at the lyrics, the storytelling of the song probably exceeds everything else on this list. It's a really good point you make. All right. Let's talk best new artist. As our producer pointed out, it's the only category you can only win once. This category is absolutely stacked this year. It's stacked. Huge hitmakers. We're talking Shibuzi. Sabrina Carpenter, which I want to talk about. Chappell Rowan, all nominated. You've got genre blenders like Ray, Vincent Boone, who I saw perform live at the MTV VMAs. My mind was blown. Teddy Swims, that absolutely inescapable song by Teddy Swims. You've got psych rock represented by Krungben.

That's a new artist. We definitely had to talk about Dochi. Let's get into it. This is a very controversial category. Best new artists. Let's talk about the definition of best new. The word new. Crongman?

Yeah, Krungman's been making records for 10. I was living in an apartment when I was first rocking them. I mean, even Sabrina Carpenter had records out 10 years. The first single was like 2014 or something. Absolutely. The way it works, according to the Grammy committee, the idea of new artists is not that they haven't worked before 2024. It's that they are breaking through to the public, which is a very expansive concept.

I think that's sort of fair. When you look at through that lens, it makes a little more sense. You don't want people saying like, oh, the Beatles can't win best new artists. They've been in Hamburg since 1962 or something like that. I think when you understand their right. rationale makes more sense, but it is a little funny as fans of some of these artists. If you listen to music actively and you see these names like for years and years and years and they get nominated for best new artists, it's like, well, best new to who? I've been listening to Kronkbin and

sad nights on the couch for many years now. One of my favorite sad nights on the couch artists to listen to is Kronbiz. Really? I remember when they played Zebulon like on a random Thursday night and I thought they were great then. We're talking like probably 10 years ago. They're new to most people. So listen, let's give them their shot. And let's face it. We use it. We used. have known about them, but look at the list of artists that we've been discussing. It's wonderful to mention their name amongst all these other huge stars. Maybe they'll turn into

the next level of star. Absolutely. Well, listen, Dochi is someone who's having a phenomenal year. She dropped her third mixtape. Alligator Bites don't heal this past August. She was featured on Tyler of the Creators, Chromacopia in October. And just last month, she went on NPR's Tiny Desk Back by a

live band. So amazing. Oopsie, made a oopsie. Made me loopie. I a killer but don't push me Don't want to have to turn a nigga got to Not live band man Man all black women with the wonderful braids I'm talking about they absolutely tore that place down The number of people who sent that

A link to me is incredible She capped off the year by dropping an all-time classic video for her single Denial is a river shout out to my homie Zach Fox who's up in that Which is why I was so sure on first listen that she sampled one of my favorite hip hop tracks for the 90s but it doesn't

It just sounds similar I want to play a clip for so you'll understand why I thought that she had sampled this song. This is Redman and Kay Solo's. It's like that. Amateur. Gammaja.

A foe's jumping off. Clips grabbing that. Cheeks yelling, John Amo. It ain't a problem at all. We can't solve. And she said she was going for like the 90s, both in the song and in the video,

which is amazing. I love everything that Dutch is coming with. Luxury. Is this her year to win as best new artist? Do we think that she might be able to take home? I mean, the hardware? She feels like the best new artist of 2025.

I think as 2020. came to a close. It felt like everything was being teed up for 2025 to be Dogey's year. Yeah. So technically, I guess, best new artist, why not now? Here's why I like this as best new artist. And no offense to any other nominees who've had amazing years in their career. But she feels new to almost everybody.

Like, even like the music heads. And I just think that she's going to have an amazing 2025. I'd be shocked that she didn't show up on the Super Bowl stage with Kendrick in a month. And I just think that, like, you know, let's give it to somebody who we all sort of discover. so excited when we first heard that my son and i listened to new music friday every friday on the way to school when we first heard nissan altima come on earlier this year we both were in because we usually fast forward real quick we get three seconds next next next next we're both like what is this this is this is our shit this is our jam by the way while we were going through the nominations i couldn't help but notice the posity

the extreme the lack thereof distinct lack of k-pop yeah and a huge k-pop dude i i got to say like it's not i won't claim it's my favorite genre but this is a genre but this is a genre that dominates the charts. And K-pop artists received exactly zero nominations in all of the major categories. Yeah, that's so weird, right? Do you have like a theory behind that? Well, look, I think to credit the Grammy Foundation and the hard work that Harvey Mason, Jr., in particular, has put in, to try and bring in people who were formerly not voters,

not people who had a voice in determining who gets Grammys, I think one blind spot is the K-pop genre. and I think that they have to probably go out and bring in some of those artists every bit as much as they did, you know, with the Latin artists a couple of years ago. Like, you know, if you look at the charts, the charts are so much more Spanish speaking. They're so much more international than they were just 10 years ago. And I think that's probably the only thing that's going to fix it. But I can't believe they didn't get a nomination anywhere. I wish we had bet money on these predictions, only because I would bet against us and probably make a lot of money.

I think I would do the same. There's just no way to predict the unpredictable. Absolutely. With any luck, Dochi, best new artist, that one feels really fair. That would be great. I'd like to see you're brought into the full. After the break, we'll answer some listener questions, including what's really going on with the sample at the heart of Kendrick Lamar's squabble up.

Stick around. Here's an interesting fact. 60% of Americans dream of starting their own business, but less than 20% actually take the first step. That's because building a business is tough. Well, Taylor Brands is here to simplify that. Taylor is a complete business builder with everything you need to guarantee your business is set up for success from day one. You can register your LLC within minutes to keep your personal assets separate from your business assets.

You'll get access to legal documents, licenses and permits, invoices and bookkeeping, and even a business coaching program that will guide you through your first 100 days of business. You'll also get a free personalized business plan, branding tools, and so much more. And of course, we'll hook you up with a 35% discount. All you have to do is go to Taylorbrands.com. slash podcast 35 to get started. That's T-A-I-L-O-R-A-N-D-S dot com slash podcast 35. Don't be a statistic. Set your business upright from day one. Finding the right doctor shouldn't be a total crapshoot. And with Zoc Doc is not because you've got more options than you know.

No, Zoc Doc is a free app and website where you can search and compare high quality in-network doctors, choose the right one for your needs, and click to instantly book an appointment. We're talking about in-network appointments with more than 100,000 health care providers across every specialty for mental health to dental health, eye care to skin care, and so much more. Plus, Zoc Doc appointments happen fast. Typically within just 24 to 72 hours of booking. You can even score same-day appointments. When I needed to look for a doctor for a lingering cold, all I did was go to the Zoc Doc site, select the type of doctor I wanted, enter my zip code, and the date I wanted my appointment, my health insurance plan, and booked an appointment. Nice.

So much easier than trying to get a hold of a doctor on the phone, especially a doctor's taking. new patients. So stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to Zocdot.com slash one song. Define and instantly book a top rated doctor today. That's ZOC, doc, dot com slash one song. Zoc doc doc.com slash one song. Welcome back to One Song. Now it's time to share some messages we've gotten from you, the One Song Nation. Let's start with one that you've been getting a lot. I've been getting a lot of people asking about squabble up by Kendrick Lamar. More specifically asking if there's a sample or an interpolation, maybe a little bit of both. Interesting. Yeah. And you know what the answer is? A little bit of both. This is a track that samples and interpolates the same

song. Shall we listen back to back? We shall. Woke up looking for the Boclea. High key. Keep a horn on me. That's my seat. I pee. Only shit, the blueprint is by me. Mr. Get Off. I get off. I get off at my feet. So I don't know if you can hear it, but there's a little bit in the background, musically of the music from this song. I heard it on first listen. So that's Debbie Deb when I hear music, 1983. One of the key songs of the freestyle genre, which we're both huge fans of.

By the way, I would love to do a freestyle episode on this show. And I think that some people have DM me like, can you please cover freestyle? We will shortly, I promise. It's such a fun genre. But that's not the only time that when I hear music appears in Squabble Up because it appears in multiple parts of the song in different ways, interestingly enough. So there is also this section, which is Debbie Deb's voice. And in the Kendrick Lamar song, you hear her slowed down.

So it's interesting about this is that you've got definitely that second one is the sample. The vocal. And the first one might also be a sample, but it might be a replay. But we're not sure if he had some people replay it. It wouldn't be that difficult to do. It's just that same synth, which isn't available on pretty much any DAW workstation, you know, synthesizer. You'll have that bass patch. Totally.

So iconic. but what's interesting about the song when you dig a little deeper is unfortunately Debbie Deb who's so famous from this track she blew up she was 17 years old she was a record store employee uh in miami when pretty tony butler came into the record store producer pretty tony butler and and liked the sound of her voice or speaking voice and had her sing on a couple tracks he was working on um so she's saying that 18 note hook that you hear it's her voice is one of those classic examples unfortunately of the thing you're hearing in the sample, the person's voice you're hearing got nothing from it. She got work for hire.

She got paid on the day. But in spite of that song being sampled so prominently on this huge important song, she doesn't get publishing. She doesn't get any publishing on this one. So, you know, unfortunate story. I found a quote from her where she says, you know, she was excited when she heard she'd be, you know, on the track. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Debbie says, I think it would be so amazing if there was some justice for me just so I can say, yeah, I feel good about it now. because I always felt like I had a raw deal with it, and I've come to accept it. So I hope Kendrick hears me.

I hope he realizes what happened to me, and he got some heart about it, and he realizes, damn, she was robbed. And if he doesn't, that's all good. I'm going to be fine either way. I mean, a couple of things. One is it is one of those samples that the first time you hear you're like,

oh, someone sampled when I hear music, really enjoyed a renaissance of sorts in the mid-2000s when everything was going full, missy, lose control, and that whole era of hip-hop sampling, these kind of songs. I noticed that over the weekend I heard a DJ spinning and there's already sort of like the

pre-mixed down mixed up transition track that you can download where it goes where it goes from either you can choose your option you can either go from when I hear music down to squabble up or you can go from squabble up to when I hear music that's always really telling. It's like a 20

BPM difference so it's a significant change yeah oh yeah exactly I mean you can do it using the pitch fade but like someone's already gone ahead and done it for So if you're a working class DJ and you're like, yes, I would like to transition from 127 BPM down to 103. Then they got you. The internet got you. But I do want to bring up one thing, which is that, like she's saying a whole song.

Like, that's the chorus to when I hear music. But then there's, you know, she couldn't believe her eyes. You know, like she saw so many guys. Like that whole, she brought so much to that. And I can understand why back in those days of the Wild West 1980s of people just paying something for the day, aren't there mechanical? royalties that come in a play here because you have your publishing royalties but correct me if I'm wrong mechanical royalties that comes from the recording does it not yeah it's carved out of the monies that come in from the from the master yeah paid out to the writers of the song so that would be a mechanical would be

the publishing royalties essentially she's on the master yeah but she got she was work for hire so she got paid so even though that's literally her voice she gets nothing that's right that seems weird to me that is to go back to our conversation about song of the year versus record of the year it doesn't seem right to have a person featured on a song. That song may not be a hit in some other freestyle singer's voice. This is a 17-year-old girl in Miami. I get it. And a producer saying, hey, you want to be on a record and her being like, oh, my God, this is amazing. Yeah. And a real recording studio. And nobody knew it would be a hit. But, you know, it's also the case that she claims that she did some lyric writing. Tony says that he did the lyric writing. Even if she didn't, even if she didn't touch a pin.

Yeah, yeah. I just feel like to go back to my, you know, like if I sing. want to be starting something, it's going to tank. You know what I mean? I just feel like her voice is the star. She's a huge part of this. And we've experienced this on the Doja Cat episode when we talked about how Paint the Town Red, how that's using the Dionne Warwick.

Her voice is on a sample, but Deon Warwick herself doesn't make a dime. It was Bert. It was Bert Backrock and Hal David's estates because they're both passed away. So there's no money being made by any living person who participated in the original song that was sampled on the Doja Cat hit.

Very similar. situation here. It's a real tragedy of our copyright situation that we have. What you're hearing is someone who isn't being paid. Before you squabble up, lawyer up, because those contracts are truly messed up. And what's worse, by the way, poor Deb, this is in her own words. When the song blew up, they started doing more material but with different Debbie Debs. In other words, they hired an imposter. And they call somebody else, Debbie Depp. In her words, MTV was just coming out. No one knew how I looked. And they didn't want a heavy girl. They wanted them. Madonna type of sexy dances. So they did a

milly-vinilly thing. There was a picture of me on the singles, but she wasn't the one out there performing or on the other song. So it's super messed up. Wait, was her name Debbie? Her name is Deborah Westloff Lopez Kowalski. Dhabi Dhab. So wait, you're telling me that even after this song, they hired new people, but they still called the artist Debbie Dibb? She's on Lookout Weekend.

Oh, Lookout Weekend is an amazing song. Yeah, I love that. Is that the same Debbie Deb? That is apparently Deb. Kowalski. But, you know, there are three or five more songs she says that came like, I'm searching and fantasy by Debbie Deb are not heard. I don't think I know those. Those are those, the two hits that are the ones that she was like. Yeah, look out weekend and when I hear music are the go-chews. Classics of the genre, classic freestyle tracks. We were definitely going to do a freestyle episode. We got to. I love the genre. I love the electric stuff. Yeah.

This next question is from listener, Sean Hayes. Thank you for being a member of the One Song Nation. Sean writes, I just heard Chase. it by B.B. Rexa for the first time. And can you please tell me that I'm not the only one hearing an interpolation of Island in the Sun by Weezer on that song? What do you think? Well, let's start by listening to a little section of the BB Rexa song. We're already getting some reactions in the room. But let's listen to Weiser. I didn't know that Bebe Rexas song, so that's funny. So let's listen to Weiser. This is Island in the Sun. And let's discuss, you know, what may or may not be the same about these two songs.

It's definitely similar. I mean, I heard it immediately. So, in my opinion, so first of all, facts are facts, and they are, Weiser are not credited on the BB Rex. Really? There's no song writing credit. I thought this might be one of those times where, like, on Beyonce albums with, like, they go ahead and they say, hey, there's some similarities here.

We're just going to pay you in advance. This is not the case. And listen, to be clear, we talk about this a lot. There is a public record, and there's also stuff that happens behind the scenes that are just, it's never made known. They may have been paid off to stay off the credits. It may have been a one-time payment, or they may have showed it to Weezer and rivers may have gone, you know what, this is a different song, letting it go.

We don't know. Because there's also the side of things where songwriters themselves know what they themselves have gotten pretty close to. And there's sort of a musician's code. You never really know. Especially after blurred lines where like you don't even put in text or emails like, hey, let's make a Marvin Gay record. You don't do that.

Now it is hard to imagine that B.B. Rexa and her writing crew did not think about Weasers. Weezer's Island Just a little bit I don't know man Sometimes I hear stuff like that And it's obvious to me That they share some similarities But just you know

Yesterday I was in the store And my sweet lord Yeah oh yeah George Harrison came on And you know according to him He's just like you know Yeah clearly I've forgotten That that that is in my

What is it called? The word is cryptonesia Or like kleptonesia That was what they pleaded And they you know George Harrison was found Right He had to pay up.

Major plagiarism cases in modern pop music because my sweet lord sounded a little too close to he's so fine by the chiffon so he did have to pay out. Which was the right thing to do but I think that probably happens more time than artists even know.

He claimed to just not know oh man this is just knowledge sounds really familiar and then someone would be like oh it sounds a little bit like and you're like oh yeah I guess you're right. But in this day and age it's hard to imagine especially with such a recent song Island and the Sun is only what 15 years ago

it's hard to imagine Island and the Sun, double check that. It's hard to believe that Island and the Sun is a 23-year-old song. So it is possible that there was no one in the room old enough to have heard it, which is very shocking. Bibi Rexa and her ilk are pulling on like core childhood memories and they think they're finding these songs. But they're really just rehashing songs off of the MTV Compilations. But listen, the reality of it is that there's four notes in a row on the B.B. Raksaw song. And then it's a different note.

And the chord changes are different. And the lyrics are different. And personally, I like for music to be this way that there isn't a right of credit for Wieser on this song. We are not the sample police. We are not arguing for a better world. We're actually asking for greater creativity. Yeah, greater creative freedom. Those four notes in a row maybe rhythmically pretty similar.

Shouldn't be owned by Rivers Quillman or anything. It's just one of those things that once you hear it, it's hard to unhear it. And if it hadn't been for Sean Hayes, we probably wouldn't have noticed. We love you, Sean Hayes. Thanks for asking the question. Thanks for writing in. This is so fun because I get these kind of questions all the time. The next one that I want to share is from J.R.R. Tolkien, and that's J.A.E.

R.R. Tolkien, well played, sir. A very hobbitty question coming up. He or she is asking, are you going to be my girl? And less for life. These are two songs. I've often thought this one about these two. Jett says that they did not use less for life for inspiration, but they do recognize that they are somewhat similar.

So he's asking, or she's asking, this drives me crazy when one comes on, and I can't tell which it is. I'd love for you guys to dissect this luxury. I'm going to hand you the mic. It's really fun for me to try to answer the question. Why do these songs sound similar to me? Why does the song sound like this other song?

So let's listen to a little bit of Are You Going to Be My Girl by Jet from 2003. So that's Lust for Life by Iggy Pop, 97. Can I say right off the bat? the jet song has 100% more coughs in the beginning. Yes, 100% more coughs. That from now on is going to be my indicator. But I'm sorry, go ahead.

I was going to say. So the question is, what's similar? Why do these songs, why does one make one think of the other? Because it certainly does for me. So what we're hearing is rhythmically, it's that dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, it doesn't hurt that the tempo is also pretty similar. It doesn't hurt that instrumentation-wise, we've got those rock drums with the big, noisy highhats and bass and guitar

like kind of classic rock and roll instrumentation. This is a fun subgenre of what would you call this like post punk or like I don't know what the genre but like I throw black and white town by the doves in there. Because like that one starts off very similar to

these two songs. Well how many we can make a long list because there's Holo Notes Man Eater also has a similar thing. A town called malice by the jam. Town called malice. Yep. Town called malice and black and white town by doves. are so freaking similar in the exact same way that these two songs are similar. Walking on Sunshine, Katrina and the Wave says the same rhythm.

All these songs share that rhythm. Tell Her About it by Billy Joel, part-time lover by Stevie Wonder. The list goes on. There is, by the way, an interpolation playlist on Spotify, a one-song interpolation playlist. All of the songs from all of our episodes are on there. It's not quite complete. I have never put my songs in the play.

But if you are a one-song super fan and you want to undertake this, just start throwing the songs that I added in there. So what's going on here is that I think, in my opinion, what all of those songs are doing is they're evoking this. So I think in the sort of musicians community, like if you say, play that Motown rhythm, there's maybe two, there's the Motown beat, which maybe is the snare on the dun, duh, duh, but there's also this rhythm is pretty well known as like the Motown. Yeah, that's some really, that's some Detroit stuff. That's you can't hurry love by the Supremes, July 1966. It's James Jamerson on bass. You know, that same baseline rhythm at least. also shows up on I'm Ready for Love by Martha and the Vandela, which sounds like this.

And all these songs have sort of varying degrees of the similar rhythm, similar tempo, similar instrumentation. And last but not least, kind of for evocation, right around the same time, it's not purely Motown. It's very 60s because we also have cream

doing it in I Feel Free. It's a slight variation, but the point is that I think they're trying to evoke that same, I think, Motown, James Jamerson, rhythm going on there. I bet you if you do like a real deep dive, there's probably something in the rhythm and blues in the old school sense. There's probably something from back when rhythm and blues was just called rock and roll

and before it was a co-opted term. Well, I'm glad you mentioned that. All the Motown artists are, you know, sort of like recycling. I'm glad you mentioned that because I think you can take it back even further. And like in all these stories, wherever you stop, there's probably a thing. There's always an old black man with a guitar. If you had just kept on looking, you would have found more. There's Frank Sinatra in 1961.

Oh, he's old. And black. Called the coffee song. That swing, though. That's swing, that's swing. That's not, I don't know the Motown artists are like, we got to do that Frank Sinatra. Rhythmically, what we're hearing is dun dun dun dun dun dun. Okay.

And it's also in famously this song. Babba, Bobba, Barbara Ann. That's Barbara Ann by the. Regents, the original version. The Beach Boys version came afterwards. But I can take it back one more step further, if you'll indulge me. Listen to the Sacks

solo in 1954's Rock Around the Clock. Bill Hailing in the Comets. Oh, last for life. Hey, we could keep on going, but to your point. I think we've got to keep on going because I, you know. All right, well, let's keep on going. I'm going to step in and be the bad guy.

I know if it's to Frank Sinatra and cream, but I think that if you go back, I guarantee you those, what I was trying to say was that I think that those Motown artists are probably using some sort of like old bluesy, southern, you know, black shit that may not even be in the public conscious, but they were trying to update it for like the, you know, whatever

Barry Gordy said, the music that sounds good in your car, you know what I mean? Like, that's what I think they were crazy, but I don't know that. These exercises, what happens is it's time to record this episode and I have to stop digging. You know what I'm saying? Like, in other words, I agree with you that if we kept on looking, we would find more. The last and not least of it all,

because it's an interesting connection, is I went back to 1930s swing, and I found this Benny Goodman song where Gene Krupa is doing a Tom solo. I like Gene Krupa. And there is no doubt that Hunt sales, the drummer for Iggy Pop, who came up with that drumbeat.

Uh-huh. Like, talks about being a big fan of this drummer, Gene Krupa. I love Jen Krupa. That's so random. So that's Gene Krupa. The song is Sing, Sing, Sing, famous Bany Goodman composition.

And to your point, Gene Krupa probably heard of show around. Oh, by all means, all those early jazz drummers were, they were very open. They were like, we're taking all this stuff from the bayou. Real quick, we've never done this on the show before, but I'm going to do something I've never done before, which is if you've heard any of our dissertation

just now on that sort of like Motown sound, the luxury is just talking about, and you think you've got the definitive answer, DM us. We want to know. We will read it and we will share it on the show. We've mentioned this a few times in recent episodes especially, but when we go down this rabbit hole path of finding what came before and what preceded that, the goal is never to find the thing that everything after is ripping off.

It's to demonstrate that a lot of these rhythms and melodic ideas have kind of an almost eternal, going back to the source you will, it's a fruitless exercise. It's elusive to find the first thing because it probably preceded recordings. It may go to classical music. It may go back to Africa. But what can often happen, and what I think in this case happened with the Supreme song, is it's such a big hit at a certain time in the 60s, at least, where it comes to be known as the Supremes, it becomes known as that Motown beat or that Motown rhythm.

I think that we have to sort of give ourselves a little grace and think, well, it probably had precedence as we've just discovered. But it's shorthand for like communicating with other musicians, hey, I want to hit that Motown grew, everyone's going to kind of know what you're talking about. Bump, bum, bum, bum, bum, even if Frank Sinatra came before that and some African rhythm probably proceeded that in Ghana prior to that. I think on our show we're always trying to draw connections from here to there. And the same way, like every now and then I'll hear a word like copacetic, look it up.

I'll be like, where the heck did that word come from? And then you look it up, you're like, oh man, that's really cool. And I think with this Motown sound, I guess all I'm saying is that, again, no shade to cream or Frank Sinatra. I imagine that those Motown artists were probably chasing some Mississippi Delta blues artists that we don't know about. But like I said earlier, if you think you know the answer, DM us. We will also try and find the answer.

And I'm sure the comments, y'all seem to know everything, y'all will let us know. We got time for one more. This is from Villain Hill Vizzle, who looks really skeptical in his profile picture, and it kind of corresponds with this question. He says, y'all didn't think, and he says, y'all didn't think Ariana Grande's song, Seven Rings, did it in... Oh, Soldier Boy's Pretty Boy swag. Actually, Mr. Vizzle, I think you're absolutely right.

I think that song is in there, too. For those that don't know it, Soldier Boy's Pretty Boy swag is here. Right here is my swag. All the girls are on me, sway. But I also do think it borrows primarily from Spended by Two Chains, which we talk about at length of that episode. But you raise a good point. I think Soldier Boy has led the way on a lot. lot of stuff that influenced the decade of the 20 teens.

And here's what's crazy. Soldier Boy also believes that he influenced a lot of rappers. That's what you didn't know. Well, actually, I've had a great time talking about the Grammys and sharing some letters from our readers with you. And next week, we will be back to talking about just one song, but all the ways that is connected to the history that created it and the people in the room and the stems and the legacy had left.

So thank you for coming into 2025, listening to one song. And as always, if you want to find us on Instagram and TikTok, you can find me on Instagram at Diallo, D-A-A-L-L-O, and on TikTok at Diallo Riddell. And you can find me on Instagram at L-U-X-X-U-S-U-Y and on TikTok at Luxury X. You can also watch. That's right. Watch full episodes of One Song on YouTube. Right now, just search for One Song podcast. We'd love it if you'd like and subscribe and maybe tell your friends with it.

And if you made it this far, I think that means you like this podcast. I think so too. So please don't forget to give us five stars, leave a review, and share it with someone you think might like the show. It really helps keep it going. All right, luxury, help us in this thing. I'm producer, DJ songwriter, and musicologist, luxury. And I'm actor-writer, director, and sometimes DJ, D'allel Ripple.

And this is one song. We'll see you next time. This episode is produced by Casey Simonson with engineering from Marcus Homme and Eric Kicks. Additional production support from Razak Boykin. The show is executive produced by Kevin Hart, Mike Stein, Brian Smiley, Eric Eddings, Eric Wilde, and Leslie Guam.