One Song - Heart's "Barracuda"

Episode Date: August 29, 2024

You're gonna burn, burn, burn to the wick if you don't recognize this song as one of the greatest rock anthems of all time! On this episode, Diallo and LUXXURY break down "Barracuda," a rally cry for empowerment and defiance that broke barriers for women in rock in the 1970s. They dive into Ann and Nancy Wilson's masterful vocal and guitar work respectfully, discuss how the song was fueled by anger and frustration over sexist activity they faced, and talk about how Heart became one of the first successful women-led rock bands. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Oh, one song nation, here we go. Security. We've lost luxury. This is one song, I saw you again with Diallo. Diallo and luxury are doing a podcast. This episode's about hard. One of my favorite bands. And I think you'll like this episode.

Because if the real thing don't do the trick, you better. Listen to another podcast, quick. I don't think it'll be necessary because this episode is awesome. It's one song. And the song is Barakuda. Luxury. Today's song is considered

one of the greatest rock anthems of all time, and it was made by one of the first successful women-led rock bands. That's right, Diallo. This band broke barriers for women in a male-dominated genre during the 70s.

And this song, fueled by anger and frustration over sexist activity happening around that became a battle cry for female empowerment and rebellion for decades after it was released. It's one song, and that song is Barracuda by heart. I'm actor, writer, director, and sometimes DJ Diallo Riddle. And I'm producer, DJ, songwriter, and musicologist Luxury,

aka the guy who whispers, Antarpolation, on the internet. And if you want to watch one song, please go to our YouTube channel and watch this full episode. All right, let's get into it. Let's do it. Luxury. Before we dive into breaking down this amazing song, Barakuta. Tell me, what does this song mean to you? And what does heart mean to you?

Y'all, let me just tell you I'm jumping out of my skin for this episode. We've done 50 episodes. I've loved every song. I learned so much from each other. There's something about this episode in particular. I could not sleep. It was like Christmas morning or something. I, first of all, have always loved the song Barakuda.

And I've always loved the band Heart. But the process of just getting ready and listening and breaking down stems, I was just infused with this like reminder that heart are incredibly important to me. Or maybe it was an epiphift. I don't even know if I realized how deeply I love this band. Yeah. It's so interesting to me because, like, this is a song that I really, really like, but it's always been a song that I've heard in the background of wherever I was.

You know what I mean? Like, I don't have that connection with the song. Do you think the song has influenced you as a person or as a songwriter? And I know that those two aren't mutually exclusive. I mean, just my body is influenced by the song. The fact that, like, if the song comes on, I have to drop whatever I'm doing to, like, play along to every single instrument, every single part. This is one of those songs where there's 50 moments in all the instruments where I'm like,

oh, this part, and I have to do the drum fill, then I have to do the guitar part, then I have to do the little vocal moment. It is like an example of why I love music and why I love songs and why one song is such, like, for me, a passionate part of my daily life these things get to talk about the details. I can see you like in your studio, like listening to each stem, like letting it drip down on you. Oh, my God. It's like, oh, man, this is so good. But again, I mean, every episode of the show is great.

Look, The Atlantic Magazine, Top 25 podcast, right? But the fact of the matter is for this one. They can't be wrong. I could not stop listening to this song, like to and from the studio, like five times over and over again because there's something about it that's just infinitely, it fuels me. That's the only word that keeps coming to my head. I'm fueled by this song. I love that.

And you had a memorable moment with this song, did you not? I had never heard this song before. It was like, you know, when we were growing. up sometimes you would know a band or a song existed before you would hear them because it just wasn't an internet or a YouTube or whatever, Spotify. So I remember being vaguely aware of heart. Don't forget in the 80s they had this sort of second chapter, which we'll talk about later, but it was a really different band. The 80s heart, they've got some rockers, but it's mostly like MTV kind of validity, synthy kind of stuff. Great songs. Don't come for that heart. Don't get me wrong.

I love every heart era. You talk about fighting out about a band. I found about a band. called Heart from MTV. And so when we were talking about this episode, again, I know Barracuda, I've heard it before, and I like it, I like it. But if you had asked me, like, what are the songs by heart, I would have named more songs

from their MTV era. Absolutely. And in the era that we're talking about, I would have as well, because how do I get you alone? Never. Like, all of these songs were like massive MTV hits. What about love?

That's the one. But when I was in high school, I was working at the college radio station at USF. And I remember going to the bar with my cool older friends in college. It was during the day we were getting a sandwich, but it was still the college bar. I felt cool. And Barakuda came on, and I knew what it was like, you know, I just heard the music. And I was like, oh, this sounds like, maybe this is hard. That sounds like her voice. And it just instantly, the beginning of the fuel that runs through the rest of my life was that first listen. It just like infected me with just like

power, excitement. Wow. It's melody. It's, it's, it's. It's that metal drive. It's hard rock metal. It's right on the edge. We'll talk about that a little bit later. But I was instantly smitten by Barracuda. Let's put it that way. Well, let's just say you're not the only person who was smitten with Hart.

Heart is a super successful group. They've sold over 35 million records worldwide. They've received four Grammy nominations. How come they haven't won a Grammy? Can we? That ain't right. Grammy nominated. That ain't right.

Do right by heart. By the way, in Spanish-speaking countries, are they Corazon? They might be. in a French, they're lequeur. Oh, there you go. I know about some lequeur. They've also had multiple top ten albums and multiple top 40 singles. In 2013, Hart was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

And that isn't enough. They've even got a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, which means that people have probably pooped on it. I'm sorry, guys. Let's talk about the Hollywood Walk of Fame. It ain't what it... Was it ever that special? I don't know, man.

I don't know if that's that... It's my least favorite place to go in Los Angeles. You know, we'll save it for another episode. We'll talk about Hollywood Walk of Fame. Worth it? But luxury. What makes Hart so damn special? It's a really hard question to answer succinctly, but here's what I'll say about it.

Sucinctly is hard to say, I get it. It's hard to say succinctly as a word, not to mention to be succinct. Yeah. But look, I'll put it this way. If you wanted to blend Fleetwood Mac and Led Zeppelin. It would be heart, but of course, it would also still be different and unique. But it is so powerful and it brings these two different sounds together. It brings the harmonizing, the vocal harmonies of the sisters, the hard rock, the songwriting, the melodies. It's even got

some Prague rock changes musically going on, which we'll talk about. I mean, like, I went to a metal show with my nephew's song, who you know, and he likes metal. But I always say, like, it's hard to decide what is hard rock? What is metal? Would you consider heart in this period before MTV metal? That is, not only is that a legitimate question. And if I just offended the entire metal community, they're like, man, sin mega death, get him, kill him. It's a great question.

And the funny thing is that for this episode, we'll get into it for some kind of technical reasons a little bit later, that it'll be a fun rabbit hole journey, I promise you. But when I was at the American Musicological Society Conference last year, nothing sounds more metal than that place. I mean, it's a very metal statement, I realize. But I saw a paper, like a dissertation called Galloping through proto metal with Richie Blackmore, John Paul Jones, and Nancy Wilson. And it was literally someone giving their presentation about the connected roots of heavy metal, hard rock, and how there's a through line that runs in them.

We'll talk about that little later. Is it the galloping? You're putting your finger on the... Yeah. That's exactly it, my friend, you nailed it. I tend to like, I'm just going to say rock, because I don't want to offend one of the subgenres, but I tend to like galloping anything. You know, like, seriously. You'll be getting a lot of galloping on this episode, my friends.

We'll get into some galloping. I'm with it. I know less than you about Hart. So let's talk about their origin story. They formed in Seattle, but they have connections to Vancouver. So Anne and Nancy Wilson, okay? I'll tell you what I do now. I know that they're sisters.

And they're the stars of this band, right? They are the stars of this band. Anne's the lead singer and floutist. We love a flautist. She is a flautist. Before there was Lizzo, there was Anne Wilson. It's true. Nancy's the rhythm guitarist and backup singer.

But they meld their singing. They harmonize quite beautifully on these records, yeah. And there's even more to the music. the band called Heart. So Luxury, tell me how this band came together. I'm going to give a really brief overview, because I, like I said, I'm so pumped to get to the stems of the song, but just to lay the groundwork, we've got Roger Fisher on guitar and Steve Fawson on bass who meet in high school in Seattle. They form a band called the Army. It then becomes White Heart, and then it becomes Hart. And by the way, it should be mentioned that one of the unsung heroes of this story, which we'll

get to in a little bit, is Roger Fisher on Guitar, his brother, who's part of the band, but he's not in the van. So Michael and Roger are brothers. As we're laying the groundwork here, there's going to be brothers and sisters. A lot of siblings. A lot of sibling energy. A lot of sibling energy. So Michael Fisher is Roger's brother. He moves to Vancouver to avoid the draft and the band goes with him. Long story short, on the other side of the coast. We've got Anne and Nancy Wilson, who are growing up in Southern California. And what year is this roughly? This is all happening in the early 70s. Okay. That the Wilson sisters are growing up in Southern California and then they moved to Seattle. And one day, Anne Wilson answers an ad in the newspaper looking for a singer. And this is how the siblings connect and hard as we know it begins to form. They're technically the band is called Hocus Focus at this moment. But there's a multi-year period where they're touring and they're like playing five-hour sets every night. They're really like in the trenches of the music industry in the early 70s, just trying to make it.

So I'm just going to back up for a second and talk a little bit about Mike Fisher. Again, this is Roger, the guitar player's brother. He was kind of like the manager or sound man. but I found a great quote where he finally, because I was trying to figure out, like, his name isn't in the credits, he's not songwriter. How is he connected to the band? So he explained it as my role was like a gardener, an architect or a designer. For me, Hart was an artistic creation of mine in a way, like a master chef creating a fine meal.

So this is important because what I'm laying the groundwork for is that Hart begins as a band that is founded by these two brothers, the Fisher brothers, and the bass player. And over time, this starts to change. And we're going to talk about that on this episode. But to finish the quote from Mike, he says, it's a delicate balance of egos and artistic creative possibilities. And again, a lot of foreshadowing about the egos and the creative possibilities. But he is also, importantly, Mike Fisher, the magic man, the titular magic man behind this song.

So sexy. I mean, right there, that's one of, I tried to make a top five. I couldn't do it. I tried to make a top 10. I had to have a top 20 heart playlist. And that's definitely in there. And that was one of their first hits. And it is about Mr. Mike Fisher.

And let me just admit, I love bands that are made up of siblings. It's just one of those, Jodacy, Casey and Jojo, our brothers. There's also Oasis, which, admittedly, I'm an Oasis fan. I love Liam and Noel. And, you know, part of their appeal was that they were arguing on stage with one another. So are the Kings, right? There's a grand tradition. Yeah.

Like you said, there's a long tradition of siblings and groups. And by the way, when you work with a sibling, they're bound to be some amazing moments. Okay. we've already talked a little bit about how Anne and Nancy melded their voices, you know, together with Nancy's incredible guitar work. But I'm sure there had to be some amazing disagreements, am I right? Like, how are Anne and Nancy's, how did their relationship evolve as they decided to make music together?

I have not seen any evidence of the sort of Gallagher brother-esque or Davies brother-esque fighting between these. In fact, if anything, because Anne is like three and a half years older than Nancy, she seems very protective of her. Oh, that's cool. And actually, Nancy isn't in the band until around 1974. She's got her own life, and she's sort of doing more of a folky thing. And then eventually, she's come to hang out with her older sister.

Just to be clear, when I said that Mike Fisher is the magic man, that's because Anne and Mike were together. They were couple. And they'd moved to Vancouver together. And according to this story, Anne is up visiting her sister, and she meets Mike's brother, the guitar player, and they kind of have a connection and fall in love. So there's a moment where these two siblings... It's almost like an Abba. there's kind of like an situation. There's almost like a Fleetwood Mac thing going on. It's like if

Abba met Fleetwood Mac, but also siblings were involved. Oh gosh. Yeah. Not knowing everything about Hart's personal life. Can you tell me right off the bad like was one couple more successful than the other in terms of lasting? Look, here's the thing about this band and maybe a little bit about the through line of this story is that it's interestingly, it's kind of a story of a takeover. It's almost like a corporate takeover. And I say corporate because in this moment the two sets of siblings, the Hart unit, They literally form a corporation. They call it the heart partnership. And I found this quote with Roger,

which kind of is some more foreshadowing of what's to come with this soon-to-be takeover. Roger says, when my brother, Mike, was happily with Anne, and Nancy and I were happily together, this partnership was formed, like a corporation, literally. Mike and I, quote, unquote, in our wisdom, insisted the girls be given 51% of the rights in this partnership. Now, this is really interesting,

because don't forget, the band begins with the Mike and Roger Fisher brother partnership with Steve Fawson on. base. The sisters come in later, but in this moment, they become by that 1% more powerful, and that power dynamic really sets the stage for what comes next. I'm sure it sets the stage for harmony and happiness. It's all, it's all harmony and happiness from this point forward. Vocal harmony, but not any other kinds. Maybe not as much marital happiness. Well, we'll find out. Look, it needs to be said that this is the honeymoon period. They're not literally married,

but when Barracuda is made in 1977, these two couples, are together. They're at the height of their powers. This song brings them to the top of the world. But in 1979, Roger cheats on Nancy, and it becomes the beginning of the end for his involvement of the band. He... Is he there for the 80s era?

He's not there for the 80s era. And by the way, speaking of Fleetwood Mac, after Roger cheats on Nancy, Nancy has an affair with the drummer. So it's literally Fleetwood Mac. That's what Stevie Nix did with Mc Fleetwood. So this template is almost on the nose, like how directly connected these two bands.

are just for that type of story. He actually gets kicked out of the band as a result. Roger gets kicked out of his own band at this point. And this lays the groundwork for that change we alluded to in the 80s where things completely shifted in the band. And by the way, that period in the 80s has a ton of hit songs. It's got What About Love and Alone, just to name a few. But today's song is from their pre-MTV period

when they sound like they're more influenced by Led Zeppelin. So, Luxury, how would you describe Hart's signature sound in this period? Hart's love for Led Zeppelin is well documented. I didn't know that. I mean, like, is Anne Wilson trying to sound like Robert Plant? The Beatles and Led Zeppelin are two of Hart's biggest influences, as they will say and have said many times on interviews. And it shows because, like, literally they have a song on the single soundtrack under the guise

of the lovemongers, which is sort of their side project, which is a little more of the folky side. Hart as a band was always doing what Zeppelin did, which is half, kind of half rock and half fulky. They kind of started to shunt their folky stuff into. a side project a little later. But they did a cover called Battle of Evermore that's on the single soundtrack. They used to end their live sets with a cover of rock and roll. You can find that on their live record. And in fact, in their earliest days when they had to have five hours of music every night,

they would have a whole Led Zeppelin chunk of their set. So Led Zeppelin... Why did they have a five-hour set? What is that about? That's just part of how the things used to be back in the old days. If you were a band, a touring band without any, like, on the touring circuit, you'd have to play like maybe five sets an hour each every night just to earn your money. So you'd get up there at five six in the evening and play all night. I thought even when the doors were playing like the whiskey a go-go, like it was probably like an hour to half, take a break, and then an hour

and a half of some of the same songs. I mean, it may have been like, look, we're talking early 70s, we're also talking the Vancouver downtown scene, and they were nobody's at the time. And they really didn't have a lot of original material either. They had to pad their set with covers because that's all they really had to play. They say I think it was Jimmy Jam. But I think we knew this.

Like, the time was one of the best bands ever because they cut their teeth just playing hours and hours a night and then going on tour for like 300 days out of the year. This is how most bands start The Beatles, famously are in Hamburg, playing almost exclusively other people's songs, the Chuck Berry songs. The Stones don't write an original song until their second or third record,

I think. Van Halen starts as a bar band in Pasadena. This is definitely the history of a lot of rock and roll, a lot of live music. We got to dive into that. We got to dive into that. But again, Led Zeppelin, huge influence. And how does that relate to their sound?

Well, look, I mean, the sound literally in the instrumentation and the songwriting, as I mentioned, half hard rockers, half kind of folk. The instrumentation's a little bit different, and it's more about the harmonies and maybe kind of mandolin-esque kind of instrumentation. But it needs to be said that they're such Zeppelin fans and respected as such that in 2013, when the Kennedy Center honored Led Zeppelin,

it was Hart who played Stairway to Heaven as like the finale, the grand finale. And you see footage of Robert Plant from Led Zeppelin with a tear in his eye. He's like literally, he's genuinely moved. and he later on went on to say he doesn't generally like it when people do Starway to Heaven, but clearly he was, he felt something in Hart's rendition of it. Oh, that's awesome.

I never get tired of listening to Anne Wilson sing. I could listen to this woman sing all day and all night. Yeah. I'm my God. Just, again, preparing for this episode and listening over and over again, it's like, I want more. I just want more. All Anne Wilson all the time.

Well, we too are full of anticipation. After the break, we deconstruct barracuda and the rumors that fueled the Wilson sisters to write this song. Stay with us. Was anticipation meant to be a pun? Anticipation? Anticipation. You're playing four-dimensional chess, my friend. Welcome back to one song.

Let's get into Little Queen. That's the album that Barakuta's on. The road to their sophomore album was fraught with label, drama, luxury, what happened? Yeah, there's a long story that I'm going to make real short here, but it's important to understand that this song is a result. of, it's actually addressing their old record label. There's been a handful of stories. I think they're avoiding trying to pin blame on any single sleazy music business person they had dealings with.

I think I might have heard that story. Yeah. But basically, here's the story. I'll back up for a second. There's another unsung member of this song creation process, and that's the producer, Mike Flicker. So he's in Vancouver. He co-owns Mushroom Studios. And he signs Hart to their first record deal.

And their first record, 1975 is Dreamboat Annie. It has Magic Man on it, and it also has this arguably bigger hit, This is Crazy on You. I don't know what it is about Ann Wilson, but every time we're going to play an Ann Wilson's voice, I'm going to think about her. By the way, it should be noted that Crazy on You also has that gallop rhythm, but we're going to talk more about galloping in just a minute.

First of all, I do want to mention that Roger Fisher, the guitar player, came up with that melody line, that dune, deen, neen, dune. Visit BetMGM Casino and check out the newest exclusive. The Price is Right, Fortune. Pick. BetMGM and Game Sense remind you to play responsibly. 19 plus to wager. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have questions

or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact connects Ontario at 1-866-531-2,600 to speak to an advisor. Free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. And at the time, he didn't realize that that

entitled him to a share of the publishing until it wasn't until bandmate Howard Lee said, hey, Rogers should get royalties that he was cut in. But this starts a story of the bandmates sort of starting to be less important and having less power in the band. It was only because he raised his hand that he got the credit for that iconic melody line. I arguably... Is that called a riff? Would you consider that a riff? Sure.

I mean, we've talked about riffs versus melodies on this episode. That's a tricky thing. I'm literally writing something right now, and I'm wrestling with when is a melody a riff versus an Austenato versus a bass line? I would say that that's a hummable melody on an instrument makes it a riff. I think it's a riff. I think it's a riff, too. Let's just call it a riff. Long story short, there's drama with mushroom records.

We'll get back to that in a little bit when we get to the lyrics because it's related to the story behind the lyrics. But they move to a new record label. They're on Portrait, which is part of Epic Records. And they also move to a new studio. They're in Seattle. And kind of a fun fact, they're recording at Kay Smith Studios, which is a studio which is co-owned by 50s movie star Danny Kay, who's famous for this moment.

This is from 1955's Court Jester. But you don't want the vessel with a vessel with a vessel. You want the chalice from the palace. I don't want the vessel with a pestle. I want the chalice from the what? The chalice from the palace. It's a little crystal chalice with a palace with a pelt. Does the chalice from the palace have the pellet with a poison?

No, the pellet with a poise in the vessel with the psal. It's like so. It's great. It lasts in this day. It's Scruval. And Danny Kay, very famous comedian. It's his recording studio. I remember I'm singing Inch Worm with the Muppets.

God, I remember that. I think about that song all the time. Inchworm's amazing. All right, luxury, now that you brought us to the album, Little Queen, tell us how did Barracuda get made? Okay, so the song begins life with a jam session that Roger Fisher on guitar and Mike to Rozier, the drummer. Before every gig, you know, these guys are,

by the way, at this point, they're no longer doing the five hours a night in the back bars of Vancouver. They've had a couple hits. You got Magic Man and other songs out there. Crazy on you. have got them to the next level, and they're on a major label now. So they're having these bigger gigs. They have sound checks, and they have a little more time on their hands to kind of mess around before the big gig. So one of these sound checks before a show, they're just messing around jamming,

drums and guitar. And Roger Fisher comes up with the guitar line, and they're jamming to it, and they're about to move on to the next idea, because that's what happens when you're jamming. You play something, you find it, and then you just move on, it's gone forever. It just happened to be that Roger's brother, Mike, who we mentioned, earlier that kind of started as the gardener or the architect of the band. He was around because he was still participating. He was a sound engineer sometimes for their live show. He was just still in the picture.

And he happened to hear and he was like, guys, this is great. And he recorded it on his little micro-cassette recorder. He was walking around with a little dictaphone or something like that. A little device you would have in the 70s to remember stuff. And it's only because of that that we have this song in the world to this day because it would have been forgotten. They would have just kept on going and completely forgotten about the riff. So how do you do music when you have like when you lock in something?

I'm sure you just like, but what if you're not in your garage studio? Like what if you're just like out in the world? Like how do you remember it? Look, in my life, I've had lots of different tools. Like I used to call my answering machine back in the day and like leave a message or do a voice memo. That's like for melodies and stuff. I still have voice memos, but go ahead. I still do voice memos.

There's something though about having somebody else in the room. That's why we've talked about the duo thing and just the collaborative process. So often something that you have kind of come up with on. your own, you don't know is good or special because you kind of, that's the thing you do sometimes. Like, those are the chords I play. That's where my fingers go on the instrument. So having that second person there, or in this case, the third person to objectively hear it and go, wait a second, guys, this is memorable. This is a special thing. Yeah, that's why sometimes you need more than even two people. You need a group. And it's really interesting how, I think you sent

me the article, there are no groups anymore. Like almost every single artist is a solo artist. There was like not one group in the whole top 100. We're not even talking top 10. In the top 100, not one group because people are all working, you know, at home on Ableton. And also for songwriting. You just don't always need somebody else because you can play off of samples off of splice or something like that. All right. So without further ado, look, I told you that I'm jumping out of my skin with excitement for this episode. And it starts with the drums. I am primarily the first instrument I played was the drums and these drums. We're going to have about 15 dashboard air drumming moments on this episode, I promise you. Starting with the beginning, Mike DeRosier, barracuda drums, isolated.

Let's do it. Now listen to that kick drum. Okay, I... That's pretty great. There are 12 incredible fills and moments that even in the taping of this episode, I will not be able to prevent myself from air drumming. And that was one of them. That was... That was... da-da-da-da-ba! The two crash cymbal there. It's driving, man. It's so driving. He's just driving. He's just driving. He's a little. a lot of ghost notes on the snare. A ghost note is when you're not fully hitting it completely hard, but you're hitting it a little bit. It's a little bit jazzy. It's a little bit of an after effect. It's a little bit of a bounce, but it's very light. But what it does is it adds more motion. It adds more rhythm. It's a little bit of an added 16th note. I'll play it again. Listen for it in

the snare in between the two and the four. It's that's happening between the kick and the snare. It's that one right there. Get cool, get go, get a co, kuk, cat. But, like, that's a big part of the sound, is you're getting, like, all these extra notes in there between the boom cat and the boom cat. And that kick drum, this is a man, by the way, who loves Led Zeppelin's John Bonham.

The band loves Led Zeppelin. You can so hear it in this song. We'll talk about a few other connections between Zeppelin in a minute. There's a couple moments in the song where the structure, it's not all four or four time. They throw in a bar of, like, a moment of five, and then there's four plus three,

at the end. I'm going to play one of those for you and I'll count it out. So here's a moment where it's a bar of five that gets thrown in there. And this is what throws people off. I'll play it for you first and then I'll play this funny quote from Nancy I found. So if you add that up, it's a total of nine. Two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine back to one because it's a bar up four and a bar of five. That's what's happening in this part of the song. I'll play it with the vocal. other kind of unusual time signature moment. This is a part in seven. I'll play the drums and then I'll show you where it was in the song. Bum-B-da-bum-bum-bub-dabum-bum-bum. And here, let me add the guitar back. This happens about halfway through the song and then it's how the song ends. And if you were

ever like surprised and confused, it's because it's a bar of four and a bar of three, and I'll count that out. Three, four, one, two, three, one, two, three, four, one, two, three. That's what's going on there. So those are the two little museo moments that Nancy mentions, throwing in just to kind of impress people, really. So one of the first things when I went to listen to this song, because I knew we were doing an episode on it, I was like, we're definitely going to talk about the weird time signature. Like, it stands out.

It's one of the things that makes the song. Totally stands out. It totally throws you, but as a listener, you're like, that was different. That was unusual. And Nancy said, we always used to throw odd bars like that into our music because we'd be kind of braggadocios. It's like if we throw these odd bars in here,

no one will ever be able to learn this easily. And we're going to seem like really cool musicians. No, but I think that's also like the Beatles have a lot of fun with time signatures sometimes. That might also be sort of like a Beatles in place. Like happiness as a worm gun has some great time signature changes. Yeah. A soap impression of his wife,

which he ate and donated to the National Trust. Happiness, for the record, has like, you know, Music colleges have broken it down into three parts. It's insane. It's an insane song. It's one of my favorite Beatles songs, and I do feel like it probably influenced the whole generation and be like, hey, we don't have to all be four on four.

Okay, now I really need to play a couple of my favorite film moments. This is from the burn to the wick part. I did mean for that. That's wild. I do like that. I like to hear how complex what the drummer is playing if you don't have the full context. Now, let's hear with the vocals so it makes a little more sense.

Okay. Little syncopation there are happening in the drums. Give a little motion. I love the, I love the syncopation. I love it when syncopation almost goes too far. Yeah. And then everybody's confused. It's like, we're in the hell.

We're coming back in. Oh, there's the one again. That's always fun. That's so great. Okay, now at the very end, this is the part where I just have to stop everything I'm doing. I have to pull the car over. And the awesome ending begins with these insane drum fills. One more coming up.

Can't live without this. I'm speechless, my friend. This is me. Speechless. Drum's leaving you speechless. That is saying something. So sexy. He keeps doing this thing with those crashes.

I love that thing. That's one of the, maybe signature things in the song is how he keeps hitting the crash. I'll play it again. You hear that? It's great. So gratifying. One of my favorite drum performances, I mean, outside of the John Bonham-led-Zephelen catalog, it's right up there.

Hey, listen. Give DeRoser his roses. I love those drums. What can you tell us about the bass? The base is pretty iconic. And by the way, let's give him his flowers. Who is the bass that's behind all these wonderful bass parts? So that's Steve Fossin, one of the original founding members of Hart,

the Army, as they were originally called, and then turned into Heart. Yeah. Or it turned into White Heart. And then Hocus Focus was in the mix there, too. There was a number of Spinal Tap-esque name changes going on there. Yeah. At the beginning, it's interesting, I actually didn't notice until I went into the stems what's happening in the base.

because he's really playing the riff less often than I thought. The top of the song, he is mirroring the guitar, which we're teasing. That's, you know, one of the best parts. We're about to play the guitar, don't worry. But the riff on the bass in the beginning is the same. We're going to talk about the gallop. We're going to talk about the gallop. Don't you worry.

If I was ever on a horse in the old west, that's the sound that we'd play in my head. We definitely would. It's even more so when we get to the guitar. And then he kind of switches it up, which I had. never noticed before. I'll play you what he plays next right after that. And then I'll give you some context with the vocals. But then he moves to something a little more chill. He just goes to quarter notes. Here they are. And just to give that context, I'll bring in, this is where Anne's first verses. And it may just be to give her more room to sing. It's less busy.

So this ain't the end. I saw you again. Today, I had to turn my heart away. And this is actually perfect. So good. Sounds so good. I mean, you got her highs. You got that throaty low. And then here's another thing he does in the pre-chorus. And we're just going to jump around in the stems.

I got to play this for a... I mean, that bass makes me wish I played bass. You know? Like, I briefly... The sound is so good. Before I got fully in the drums, my parents bought me a bass guitar lesson. Okay. Just one lesson?

All I can remember about that dude who came over, he was dressed in a purple suit, and I just remember, like, he was teaching me how to play the bass guitar. I was kind of picking it up. but he smelled like cigarettes. Like I just, I, the man's, like, I was looking at his fingers, I was like, man, you smell like cigarettes. Is that why you only did the one lesson because of the cigarettes? I don't think I could take it.

Like, his whole vibe was like, it was too foreign to me at the time. But I bet you he was cool. Yeah. I did try and learn how to play the bass because I love a good bass guitar. Oh, it's so satisfying. Yeah. And it's interesting hearing it in the mix. I'll play that same part.

Now I'll layer it. We're jumping around a little bit, but here is a little bit of that same part because there's a harmony in the guitar and let's play it all together. Baracuda. Fun. That's what's going on. Well, there's one more thing that happens in the bass and then we're going to get to Roger Fisher on guitar.

But there's this little end thing that I'd never noticed before. This is what he's doing during all those beautiful fills I was just playing for you. Here's that. This one again. I literally could play every instrument of this song on a loop as a performer or as a listener for the rest of my life and be happy. Just jump back and forth between listening, playing, listening and playing, and be very happy.

But then who would raise your child? Well, okay, fair logistical question. I don't have an answer for that. I love that base part so much. In fact, it just makes me think, like, wouldn't it be awesome if someone just took that part, that little snippet and just remixed? You have remix her ears.

It's not even producer ears. I'd like to pick out one little part that I feel is underappreciated, unsung, if you will, and then just, like, string that shit on out. on a few other episodes, but that is, to my mind at least, that is something, that's a DJ ear thing that is the connection between DJs who then go on to produce. Or like people's sample stuff, yeah. Noticing these moments and being like, oh, that could be a thing. And that's where you sort of bridge the gap between being just a DJ in quotes and a

DJ who starts to produce stuff. Yeah, let's find time to do that, man. Let's do it, my friend. Let's find time to do that. Let's move on to Roger Fisher and his wonderful guitars. So I want to pause here for a second because we do need to talk about the Gallup. there's a couple of influences on this song that are pretty apparent

and to be clear they're rhythmic influences and to be clear they are also name-checked by the band. So this is very clearly one of those situations where it is, again, because it's a rhythm, nobody can own a rhythm. But this Gallup rhythm, if you listen to our Abba episode,

and if you haven't, you should, because it's a good one with John Early. When we talked about Georgia Maroder, we talked about the Gallup. We talked about the Gallup. We talked about it on Gimme, gimme, Gimme, Gimme, by Aba. I did mention that there's a metal connection

with Dio. Well, let's start with this. this is Led Zeppelin's 1976 song, Achilles' last stand. And Hart were definitely big Led Zeppelin fans and they definitely heard this. So again, the rhythm the dun-da-d-dun-da-dun-d-d-d-d-d-dum.

But even that kind of interlocking drama and bass thing, even some of the fills, this is actually a really underrated, arguably maybe my favorite Led Zeppelin song, Achilles' Last Stand from their kind of least popular album presence. But yeah, that had just come out about a year prior. And, you know, that might have even been what they were jamming on that day, I wonder. the day where they started to write this song.

But the number one influence, at least as far as what Nancy Wilson has gone on record, talking about, is this Nazareth song called This Flight Tonight from 1973. Again, it's done-da-da-done. It's the eighth note and then the 16th note's done, da-da-done. And by the way, this is actually a cover of a Joni Mitchell song,

interestingly enough, called This Flight Tonight, which was on Blue and does not have the gallop. You know what I said it doesn't have the gallop, but it kind of does have the gallop. That acoustic guitar is sort of playing the same rhythm. I can get to hear it. It's a little more subtle because it's on acoustic guitar. But it would make sense that as a cover, Nazareth might have like cottoned onto that and sort of emphasized it a little bit more.

You said the Nazareth song is from 73. 73? Yeah. I had read a lot of people trace what we think of as sort of like the heavy metal gallop to 1970s immigrant song by Led Zapp. Do you have an opinion on that? I think that is in the mix. It's one of the first ones.

I think the first one might technically be this deep purple song called Hard Loven Man. This is from 1970. And by the way, that's Richie Blackmore on guitar. His first band was Deep Purple. And then he went on to form Rainbow with Ronnie James Dio from Dio. We listened to another galloper, another heavy metal galloper. That might have been the first one. There's a Sabbath song called Children of the Grave.

Call on me Oh, call on baby You're right I think I might have told this story on the show one time before But all of these songs Remind me of a song from 1969 This song, which I had to strangely

Moonwalk to Why do they have us moonwalk to this song? Check this out Bapap Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah I mean like, you know, by the way You can sort of hear Anteatence for all these gallopings.

Is that Norman Greenbaum? is Norman Greenbaum, yeah, which always makes me think which one of my elementary school teachers was both into moonwalking and Norman Greenbaum. Literally, I remember moonwalking out to Spirit in the Sky. Interesting. But I wanted to say that, like, as much as I. The Call Me connection that you just made, to me, because these are, the Gallup is related to the shuffle, which is the beat we talked about on Call Me. It's slightly different. That's the 6-8, but they are related.

You're totally right. They are ruffled. And for those who don't know what we're talking about now, the shuffle can be heard in this classic. So the shuffle obviously goes way back. And I think that you might be right. Maybe that is where the heavy metal gallop comes from. But perhaps heavy metal, I love a good gallop.

And by the time that it's getting used in disco music, I'm fully on board. Well, I can take it back even further. And to be clear, these things are connected but a little bit different. But one thing they have in common is that there's sort of a downbeat, a little bit of space and then the next thing to connect it to the next bar. Dun, da, dun, da, dun, versus bum, butabum, butabum, it's like one,

duh, da, it's like an eighth note, and then two 16th notes versus three 16th notes. But they sound like to keep the theme of the show, siblings. Yes, they are. The shovel and the gallop might be siblings like Anne and Nancy Wilson. It's the Wilson sisters are the shuffle.

Exactly. And the gallop is the Fisher Brothers. I was even putting them closer, but that works too. Well, look, I can take the gallop back even a little bit further. I think part of why, first of all, it's literally called The Gallop. Sounds like a horse. We think of it like a horse probably because of this.

Okay, this is William Tell Overture by Rossini. It's from 1829, but it's also the Lone Ranger music. Bingo. Now, let me just. This is on TV in the 50s, and all these kids are listening to it. All these heavy meddlers are listening to it. Okay, I've been around horses. They play polo.

I think that might have influenced the William Tell overture. You know what I mean? The sound of the horses, this might be chicken and egg kind of stuff. Oh, no, no, you're 100% right. I think the horses sound like the gallop. Cloppy, clopped. It became a thing.

Yeah, cloppy, comedy. I went even further down the rabbit hole. You went further back than Rossini? Well, it stems from a dance around the same era that Rossini is putting it into the William Tell overture. But in the 1820s, there is a dance called the Gallup with one L instead of two. And it is named after the fastest running. gate of a horse. Well, I'll play it for you in one other context because all these musicians are

growing up watching TV, watching the Lone Ranger, and hearing this gallop and maybe putting that into their music. They also might have heard it in this. I mean, that's bugs. Every Bugs Bunny ever. And then just one more example. It's a little bit later, but I do love this example. This is from Clockwork Orange, famously towards the end in this sort of sped up scene. This is Wendy Carlos doing it on an early Moog synthesizer. So we do have a little bit of history with that gallop rhythm, which is why we think of horses and heavy metal and heavy metal horses. The gallop is a lot of fun.

And it welcomes in everybody. I don't know anybody who's like, uh, gallop. I hate gallops. Nobody hates a gallop. Everybody loves gallops. Well, speaking of gallops, maybe we should get into how the gallop is used in this song. Yes, we should. Mr. Roger Fisher on lead guitar, heart barracuda.

And now this is in my mind. You know what? I think some of the popularity of the Gallup is, and this is coming from a person who admittedly does not play guitar, it allows the guitars to have some fun. You get to be the rhythm section. Compared to some of the things that you hear the guitar are having to do, it's easy. The chore of a guitar player.

No, but once you find it, you can just have fun doing it and just sort of jam with the band, so to speak. You're playing it on the low e-string, and you're just chugging away with that distortion on it. He's got this special flange pedal, and then he's obviously got a whammy bar so he gets to like have the riff happen and then do fun things

like these screaming squeals he's having a blast it stands to reason that they jammed on this when they wrote the song they were jamming on it for a long time because it was so enjoyable to play to play on the guitar to your point. It sounds good and it's easier

to play than some of the things that guitars are asked to play. There's no harmony to it. It's one note. You're playing one note and just rhythmic. It's all rhythmic. It's done da-da-da-da-da. It's like literally you can teach anyone to play it. Yeah, you can even teach me. I can teach you to play it.

Yeah, that's what we're doing after this episode. Yes. It may also make sense that when synthesizers and keyboards come into play, like, why not use the galloping? You have less programming. Yeah, yeah, it's a little bit less work. Get to the jam. As musicians, we're always trying to be efficient.

Play us another guitar part. So Roger Fisher isn't simply doing the one-note rhythmic thing. He's also doing a couple other parts. Let's listen to a few of them. I mentioned the harmonics thing. Here's a moment where he's having a lot of fun with harmonics, and I'll explain what that is in a minute. So harmonics, what it means in a succinct sentence or two is when you're playing on guitar,

what you're doing is you're lightly touching a string and kind of the action of your fingers, the pick, and the string. It's a very delicate motion, but it makes that sound that's very high. And that's what he's doing there, and then he's bending it using the whammy bar. And that's how he creates the sound you just heard. Nice. Let's play a few more. There is an arpeggio, and here's another thing I didn't notice until I was in the stems. during the sell me sell you the porpoiseed part he does a little arpeggio i'll play it for you without the vocal

and then i'll add vocal for context and that's happening when anne's singing this so i'd never noticed that before just this little part that he's doing in the background i had never noticed that yeah and then here is his solo you know he's a really undersung character in rock guitar this song, I mean, is a career maker, but, you know, he made some choices with who he slept with that got him kicked out of the band. Oh, come on. Everybody's done with everybody else in 1979. Well, when you're the one slept with, and it's your band.

When you have 51% of the band. Yeah. It's kind of a deal breaker. I think he served as time. Kind of a deal breaker. I'm going to play one more part that Roger Fisher does because towards the end, there's this moment. By the way, this is mixed in with the melaton.

So you'll hear this, quote, alien space noise. is what they described it as. As Roger Fisher tells the story, to make the sound, it was actually an accident. He was using a flanger and the guitar was close to his amp and the flanger. And it's just accidental moment where he leaned behind his amp for some reason. It made this crazy squeal. And the producer, Mike Flickr, was like, oh, my God, that's really cool. We need to use that in the song.

So this is that sound. That squealing thing. That's the alien space noise. That is the alien space noise. Yeah, you're also hearing a melotron. It sounds like voices. kind of that's a Melotron,

which is kind of technically the first sampler. The Beatles used it on strawberry fields, but it's a keyboard that literally had loops of tape where they had recorded people singing each note,

and you can play it as a chord. That's what we're hearing. It's the first sampler from the late 60s. Crazy. There's this moment at the end. I mentioned how they enjoyed being a little bit

Prague with their time signatures and stuff. There's also this moment at the very end when they're in that seven section, the dun-da-dun-d-da-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d, they drop a beat so that second bar is three every time. They're also interplaying between two guitars, and I had never noticed this. I think my ears had noticed it all this time, but when I was isolating it, I noticed that one guitar is doing this.

One, two, three, on the downbeat. One, two, three. That weird time signature. That's a weird time signature. And the other guitar player, Howard Lease, I believe, is doing on the end, I'll isolate him and I'll play him together, and you can see it plays this fun trick on your ears. So he's playing this. And one, two, three, four, one, and, and, and, and.

So when you combine that, the downbeat one and the and and and the and and the and and the one, it sounds like this. And I think if you're listening on headphones, this is especially satisfying because it goes from one ear to the next. Does that make sense? Are you hearing it in both ears? I'm hearing it. Yeah. He's like separated the two parts into two different guitars. That's super cool. Where in these stems is Nancy?

All right, well, Anne is the lead vocalist, and Nancy does a harmony just a couple times, but she's also playing acoustic guitar. And interestingly, in the 70s, if you ever see footage of hard on stage, she's playing acoustic guitar, rocking out with this loud band with loud guitars and loud drums. You can kind of hear her in the mix, and every now and then you can't. When she introduces Crazy on you, like she'll have these moments where it's just her playing and you can hear her loud and clear, like the intro to Crazy on you. Anyway, in the recording, she's also a little bit buried. And by the way, when she kicks Roger Fisher out of the band, suddenly she becomes the lead guitar player. So at the time she's playing acoustic,

and here she is on Barracuda playing acoustic. And I'll play where that happens. That's the down, down, down part. It's just a moment. She hasn't played up until that point. She doesn't play again. And it's right here. What's funny is when you take out all the other instruments like that,

and you just leave in the vocals and nams. What's weird is, it sounds more like an 80s rock ballad to me. Well, interestingly. And that's where they end up going in the 80s. Exactly right. When they do the lovemongers also as their side project, they kind of have that as an outlet for this more acoustic-driven vocal harmony avenue so that they can still have a rockin band. In the 80s, you're right, it becomes like rock and pop crossover.

Rock ballad becomes so big. And by the way, just hearing that, it sounded like I could easily see that being like slash and axle. You know what I mean? Like, and Axelbeig. Like, like on MTV unplug, though, or something. It's an unplug thing.

Yeah, yeah. Just acoustic guitar and the vocal. I think it's time to hear some vocals because you can't talk about this group without talking about Ann Wilson's vocals. I mean, like, there are a couple of women in this period. I think Stevie Nix is another one. Yeah.

When it comes to rock vocals, rock goddesses, if you will, Anne Wilson. I'm right there with you calling Anne Wilson a rock goddess. throughout this episode every time we play a little snippet from her I get kind of frozen and I can't move on right away you know those listening

you know to the podcast I mean like this man has not been able to sit still play me something by Anne Wilson here are just some of my favorite moments that we haven't already heard on this episode uh huh no right no wrong selling a song

I mean she's shouting in that booth she is incredible as a vocalist she is nailing that note you're right the Robert Plant vocal connection is there just like the John Bottom Drum connection is there, just like the Jimmy Page guitar connection is there. This band, it's kind of led to off when he's Fleetwood Mac. It just kind of is, and that's kind of perfect.

And those vocals are outstanding. They're outstanding. And by the way, what you're hearing is, interestingly, that's a really, like, kind of cheap digital delay. That's why you're hearing this effect on her voice. It's a little bit of a delay called, it's an MXR-D-D-L digital delay. Who did that? The producer of the song? The producer, Mike Flickr put that on.

But it sounds perfect, and it just gives it that much more. depth and power. I'll play a couple more of my favorite moments. This is the second time she says barracuda. Oh, barracuda. I like that little sassy barracuda. She puts a little elbow in there. Let's see. I think I played the sell me sell you part, but not with Nancy, her sister on vocals yet. So let's do that next. This is the one part where Nancy is backing up her sister. You, the porpo said, dive down. Think that you got the blues too. I love how she hits that blue note, basically.

She goes to the seventh when she sings blues too. So it's singing what she's saying. Can you play that part for me again? Sell me, sell you, the porpo said, dive down. Think that you got the blues too. Yeah, that's a nice blue note. You can't not bend your body when she does that. Why are we singing about porpoises?

Well, Anne has explained a few times in interviews that people are always asking who the porpoise is. Who's the porpoises? But Nancy, her sister, is the porpoise. We used to call each other that. I think it was an evolution of the walrus because we were big Beatles fans. Can we talk a little bit about the lyrics of this song? Some people misinterpreted the lyrics of the song. Now, I've heard them kind of all the members of the band tell various variations on the story,

but it sounds like there was a disgusting record label guy. in Detroit, an unnamed person. What had happened was mushroom records had put out an ad in Rolling Stone, or maybe it was Billboard, touting the success of their first record dreamboat Annie, but they implied with these sort of tabloid headlines, they were making kind of a play on the National Enquirer, and one of the tabloid headlines implied that the sisters were in a relationship together. Yeah, they were an incestuous lesbian relationship.

And they hit the roof and hit the roof when she saw this. She was so disgusted and insulted, and it was just, it led to her sitting down to write a song. And this is apparently where brother of Roger, Mike Fisher, comes back to the story because he's just recorded

this cassette tape of his brother jamming with the drummer, and he's like, oh, you should channel that anger into a song. Here's something that might work perfectly for this thought

that you're having, for this anger. And he was right, the combination of the lyrics, the rage Anne was feeling, the lyrics she wrote, the melody she obviously brought from heaven,

frankly. Anne was clearly inspired to match her anger her rage in lyrics, along with this demo of the jam that DeRosier and Fisher had had earlier. But it's also kind of cool because the porpoise says, sell me, sell you. Yeah. I feel like it's the sisters maybe having a conversation where they're just like outraged and insulted. It's like they're selling me, they're selling you. The two sisters are telling each other like, that's what they're doing. They're marketing us. They're pimping us out,

essentially. And yeah, all of the like lyrics when you know this backstory make a lot of sense. You're lying solo in the weeds. I'll bet you're going to ambush me. You're supposed to to be my friend, but you're just waiting for an opportunity to take advantage of me. Yeah. Really, really good lyrics in this song. Can you tell us a little bit about the song writing splits? No, it's interesting. Now that you know the origin of how the song came together, it makes sense. Anne Wilson gets 40%. Roger Fisher on guitar gets 30%. Interestingly, the drummer only gets 15, even though theoretically the two of them came up with it together. I suppose he had less leverage in the negotiations. And Nancy comes in with 15%. So across the song, the Wilson sisters have

55% total and the jammers who originated the idea of the song to begin with get 45% which is fairish it's kind of like that 51% thing that they figured out earlier it's 51 49 the wilson sisters have slightly more power yeah yeah which i think is okay i think so because i think that um no no no disrespect to the fisher's i think that you know again they are when we first talked about this episode you were just like i got to hear anne's voice this is like you know so it's like the wilson sisters but we're also never going to have a perfect math equation because every song story, it's like it's so different and who has power and who doesn't. The song did originate with DeRosier and Fisher and there are situations where the fact that Michael

Fisher comes over and records it, he might get a split too. Like Nashville rules in theory is the songwriting notion that everyone who's in the studio that day, even the weed delivery guy, gets a percent or two. So... He said that's the Nashville? It's called Nashville Rules. Yeah. It's this idea that comes from country music that whoever was there when the hit got made gets part of the hit. Let's hear some more vocals. This might be my favorite song. Fight me. For this one, I'm competing with myself and I don't have an answer, but it might be this part when she goes, no, you better. Those two parts compete. It's not almost Beyonce-esque if I may. Interesting. No, you better.

And then here's the last Barracuda of the song, just so we have them all. Yeah. Bear Cuda already has four syllables. But she's like, make it eight. And you can tell that this is like a live performance. Like you can hear it bleed in her microphone. You can hear some drums, a little guitar. Like they performed this as a band.

It makes it all the more real. It makes it so real. Yeah. Yeah, this is a band performing. They overdub some of the things like the acoustic guitar and the harmonies, but this is really a performance that was captured live. For all these moments, I just like to imagine that, like, I'm in the studio and like, she's just one, you know, glass pane away.

and you're just like, man, she is she is yelling. She's shouting and it's perfect. What I wouldn't give to have been there the day they recorded this. But this is the next best thing being able to listen to these stems. So that is a pleasure to play it for... Here's with loud speakers here at Sirius XXL Studios. Oh, my God. What a joy this has been to listen to this.

So a lot to unpack there with Barracuda. And I wouldn't want to do a hard episode without giving some mention to the heart that I knew growing up, the heart that I sort of really... Kind of heart 2.0. Yeah. Yeah. Listen. But I love what about love and how do I get you alone?

Like I thought those were really cool songs. And they were part of that rock power ballot thing that the 80s did just so well. Yeah, exactly. No, I mean, one of my favorite heart songs is to me almost a different band altogether because it's hard to wrap my head around. They're like crazy on you barracuda heart being the same one. But another song we have to talk about would be, you know, these dreams. These dreams, absolutely.

By the way, it should be noted that that's actually Nancy singing. It's a rare example. Oh, that's awesome. That's Nancy on lead vocals there. It's like when the car is when they let someone... When Ben Orr. Yeah, yeah, when it's not Rick. And by the way, to that point, Jefferson Starship was what I grew up with, not Jefferson

Airplane. And they similarly feel like a completely different band when they come along in the 80s than when they came along in the 60s. It's funny you should mention Stairs Jefferson Starship because this song, so after they kick out the original members of the band, they start writing with different people and they start bringing some of the heavy hit or co-writers. This song, These Dreams was. actually written by Bernie Topin.

And Bernie Topin is Elton John's co-writer. He writes all the lyrics, and Elton makes the melodies and chords happen. And Martin Page, who also did, We Built This City by Jefferson Starter. That guy was cranging out hits. He was cranking out hits. He was cranking out the hits. And it was originally offered to Stevie Nicks. I could totally see Stevie Nix singing in these dreams.

But she couldn't. She turned it down. She did not like it. Steve's Dreams is one of those videos that I associate the visuals of the video so much with the song that I can't even imagine. And I do think in some ways, a lot of, of those groups that had their biggest hits in the late 70s who weren't able to make that MTV transition probably felt really robbed because, you know, so much of what fed like the next

generation of music fans was the visual of the music video. Absolutely. And it's a very lush, beautiful video and it helps make the song. Yeah, these dreams, absolutely. So hard have been pioneers who've paid the wave, not just for other women in rock, but just in rock music in general. Their music feels timeless. And yet still kind of like the areas in which each song was released. I got say. I think they were able to prove themselves as a group that could write chart topping hits and play chart topping hits. So as we wrap up this episode, what do you think is the legacy of Heart and Barracuda? The legacy of Heart very personally is that it is a band I come back to so frequently. And it's sometimes I'm not remembering how much I like them until I suddenly have to listen to

crazy on you or I suddenly have to put on Barakuda and then I have to play it again and again. I have all their records on vinyl. It is they are such a go-to band for me. I have a deep connection to them. And it's been such a pleasure to talk about them today and be reminded of how important they are to me personally. And I do think that they really did break down some walls for other female front of groups. Representation fricking matters. Oh, absolutely. I'm talking everybody from Blondie to hole to the yeah, yeah, yeah, it's garbage. The runaways, L7, PJ Harvey, like, I think.

Yes, good list. I think everybody. The Bengals, the go-goes. The bikini kill. I think they all owe something. Taking it back to the Linda Linda. I think they all owe something to heart. Yeah, being able to see these women rock the front of the stage.

It really mattered in the early to mid-70s, where there weren't a lot of people doing it. You talk about a male-dominated decade, 70s is up there. Okay, Luxury. It's time for one more song. This is the segment where we share a deep cut or a hidden gym with you, The One Song Nation, and with each other, sometimes for the first time. You go first.

All right, my one more song is another heart song, but it's a lesser-known one. This song is called How Can I Refuse? I just love this song so much. It reminds me a little bit of, you know, this is in their transition period. This is them leaving the 70s. This is 82. So they haven't quite entered that MTV era yet,

but they were definitely listening to Judas Priest when they made this song. And it's got a real Judas Priest. You've got another thing coming vibe. And anyway, one of my favorite heart songs. That's really cool. What about you, my friend? What do you got?

For my one more song, I'm going to go with an oldie but a goodie from the early odds. This was off of a DJ Jazzy Jeff solo, producer album, so to speak. Oh, really? I've never heard it. Yeah, I called The Magnificent. And this is Rock with you, featuring Arrow. That was cool. Yep, that was just a song that I was reminded of the other day, and I was like,

this was a very sweet spot in hip hop when guys like Jazzy Jeff, who was running Hidden Beach records at the time was like really putting out some cool tracks. And Arrow is an amazing singer, amazing voice. I'm just a fan. That was great. Thank you. As always, if you have an idea for one more song, you can find us on Instagram and TikTok. You can find me on Instagram at Diallo. That's D-A-A-L-L-O. And on TikTok at Diallo-R-R-L-O-R-O.

And you can find me on TikTok at Luxury X, or on Instagram at Luxury, L-U-X-X-U-R-Y. You can also watch full episodes of One Song on YouTube now. Just search One Song Podcast. We'd love it if you like and subscribe. And if you've made it this far, I think it means you must like our podcast just a little bit. So please don't forget to give us five stars, leave a review and share with somebody that you think would like the show. It really helps keeps us going. One Song Nation, if you're as obsessed with the making and meaning of popular music as we are, join us in Las Vegas on Saturday, August 31st.

My birthday. For Heartby Weekend. And my birthday. And Luxury's birthday. We will be taping an episode of this show. It's going to be live and it's going to be free. Check out the link in our bios on socials. All right, luxury, help us in this thing.

Well, I'm producer, DJ, songwriter, and musicologist luxury. And I'm actor, writer, director, and sometimes DJ Diallo Riddle. And this has been one song. We will see you next time.