One Song - Marvin Gaye's "Let's Get It On"

Episode Date: February 15, 2024

This is THE sexiest One Song episode yet! To celebrate Valentine’s Day LUXXURY and Diallo are dissecting Marvin Gaye’s classic ode to lust: Let’s Get It On. Come for the exquisitely horny wa wa pedal, stay for the supremely lush vocal stems.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Oh, yeah. Hell yeah. Wait, was that your sex in voice? I'm trying. It's hard. I'm not an actor. So, you know, I mean, I'm just naturally. Let me try again.

Because I'm trying. Is the Barry White of it all? Hey, what's up? That's like Nick Kroll. It sounds like a character on like, whatever that. Okay, I'm not. But it's funny you bring up Barry White because some could say that the whole Barry White thing wouldn't exist if it weren't

for today's song, and I'm so excited because it's Valentine's Day, and we are here in the studio just getting really romantic. We wanted to pick one of the most romantic songs of all time for y'all. Romantic? Or just plain old? I don't know if it's a romance in this song. It's sexy. This is a sexy song.

I'm so trying to get into a very... I love sexy luxury. This is amazing. But it's just Nick Kroll. I'm just being the hormone monster. That's all I can do. By the way, you have two exes in your name. So you have to have a sexy voice.

I'm trying to find it. It's somewhere in between. Look, if I'm here normally, and then I'm doing whatever this is, which is the fucking hormone monster, can I find something? Can I, can I, hey, hey, baby. I love it.

Luxury. The whole riddle. It's Valentine's Day. Are you ready to get the show on? Today, a day for lovers is the day that we choose to celebrate one of the sexiest songs of all time. A song that was number one in the U.S., a song that went platinum.

And while there are no exact statistics for this, probably accounted for more unplanned pregnancies in the 1970s than any other recording. Very likely. It's very likely. It's a very sexy song. It equals sex to many people. It's become a staple for any self-respecting makeout tape. Or make-out playlist. No, no, I still call them. I think tape is cool, just calling it a tape. It's just call it a tape.

It established Marvin Gay is a true sex symbol, and it established the wah-wah pedal as the horniest sound on planet Earth. Let's face it. Like, it just, you get a little bit of a wah-wah, and then... It's amazing. Boners are popping.

One Song Nation, put those kids to bed and prepare to make more kids. It's Valentine's Day. You're on One Song. That's not sexy. You sound like Bruce Wayne doing Batman. I know it's not sexy. I will stop.

It's Valentine's Day. You're listening to One song. Let's get it on. Okay, if you're new here, I'm actor, writer, director, and sometimes DJ Diallo Riddle. And I'm producer, DJ musicologist, luxury, aka the guy who talks about interpolation on the internet. And this is one song, and I have to say I'm so excited about this episode. I have a lot to say about Marvin Gaye. He's one of my favorite artists of all time.

But before we start, I have to ask luxury, do you consider yourself to be romantic? Sure. Hell of romantic. What's the most romantic that you've ever done? I'm very sexy man. That's different from romantic. Isn't it? Can we make the distinction, actually, for the world to understand?

What is the distinction between romantic and sexy? Like, where is the line? Do we even know? You know, I think you are sexy to the person you are romantic with, hopefully. Okay. You would hope it's a two-way story. Oh, I like that. Yeah.

Do you think that this generation, because on, you know, TikTok and stuff, I see so much cringe content of, like, young people that think what they're doing is sexy, but it's just cringy? Do you think that they really think, do you think what they're trying to be is romantic and appealing to their partners, but they think the road to that is sexiness? You know, I think that at the end of the day, every generation thinks that romance died the second that they got married and settled down and they look at the kids and are like, that's not romantic, but I think the kids can figure it.

The kids are all right, is what I'm saying. Like, you know, at the end of day, it all comes down to a sense of humor and, you know, authenticity. Just being yourself. Yeah, just being yourself. I think the cringe comes from when it's so clear that they're trying to be something that's not natural. I think most of the cringe probably comes from either people.

people trying too hard or people being old judging the young. There's also that. That is also cringing. So let's stop. Well, do y'all, let's get it on. Well, maybe I should say let's get into it. Let's get it on as a different meaning today. Let's talk about... I don't want to be hauled in front of heartbeat HR. Not again. Let's talk about Marvin Gay. He's one of your favorite artists. I know you have a lot to say. For listeners who are maybe less familiar with Marvin, and frankly, I'm one of them. Teach us all educate us. Why does he matter to you? I think Marvin is so important. I mean, like he really is, look nothing is created in a vacuum

and there are so many artists from Jackie Wilson to Smokey Robinson who are absolute innovators in this field I do think that Marvin is a very if you're going to talk about music a very convenient bridge from R&B sort of representing

the sort of boogie-woogie rollicking styles of like the 50s and even the Motown song of which he was a part of in the beginning of the 60s into what we think of as today as contemporary R&B. Like you can draw a direct line from Marvin to everybody from DeAngelo to Bryson Tiller in ways that it's just harder when you're drawing that line from

Smokey and Sam Cook and some of the other artists. So are you making a distinction between kind of more of a soul singer versus a sort of, well, I suppose there are. It's hard to talk about this stuff, right? Like even growing up. What's the distinction that you're making there just now between Smokey versus? I think it's the introduction. I'll be sure or something.

I think it's, in some ways, it might be the introduction of just blatant sexuality into the music in ways that it wasn't there before. And I think that's one of the reasons why we chose Let's Get It On for this. Because there are other Marvin Gaye songs that we could do on one song. But we were coming up on Valentine's Day. Sure. And we were like, what's the sexiest song we can do? And we were just almost immediately agreed that Let's Get It On is sexy, regardless of the genres of

music you're into. It's a sexy song. It's become a template. It just represents sex so much so that in this past couple years it's become the TikTok meme of just the intro, the first 10 seconds. Just the wah-wa. Just the wawa and the intro is enough to trigger. We've had a million videos on TikTok alone for which just the intro to this song represents sex and tells you that you're about to watch a video that's either a sexy video or it's kind of a joke about like a skid about sex. Yeah. But this is a song that instantly conveys sexiness culturally. Absolutely. And I'm glad you bring it up about culturally because in preparing for this episode,

I had no idea that this song originally, you know, just to place it in its historical context, we're coming out of a period where he's released one of the most celebrated albums of all time. That's right. What's going on? One of my absolute favorite, like, if I'm in the right mood

and I hear certain songs like, you know, flying high, like, I just, it's hard not to well up with tears. Now, what's going on was a really important record for not just Marvin, but for, actually I was going to say for Motown, I'm sure you saw the same thing as I did about Barry Gordy. But Barry Gordy refused to put it out and didn't want to put it out and said it would be a career-ending mistake. He said it was the worst thing he'd ever heard. So there was actually a back-and-forth battle.

It took several months before Marvin finally put it, finally put his foot down. And I think he self-released it originally. So there's a lot of controversy surrounding that, but then it became a hit. And as you're in the middle of saying, represents it's a political album more than it is a personal sexual record. very political album. It was, you know, it's hard to say that any political music doesn't owe something to what's going on. But I learned this week while preparing for this episode that Let's Get It On also started as a political song. You know, like a lot of people were probably expecting another really political album from Marvin. And as it turned out, no, they got this album, which was very open with its, with his sexuality for the lack of any other time. Oh, absolutely. And let's get it on. didn't start out that way. Let's get it on as an album and both as an album and as a single. Both started off political just like their predecessor. But then something was just going on in his life. He was growing apart from his wife, Anna Gordy at the time. He's falling in love with this

new person who finds herself in the studio, Janice Hunter, who he will eventually marry before the end of the decade. We'll get into all that because this is, because first of all, Anna Gordy is 17 years older than Marvin is and Janice is 17 years younger than Marvin is. So something going out with the number 17. Some age range stuff going on there interestingly. But yeah, that's a big thing happening in his personal life right in this moment. And to your point, the transition from making a political record to making a sexual record happens in this song, which when we get to the song story, we'll get into more detail. But I think you were in the middle of saying like the song itself started out as a political

song, didn't it? Start out as political. And the same way that what's going on was like over the top open with its political messages, this was an album that was eventually going to be over the top in its celebration of sex.

And I think that it was in the David Ritz book that, you know, a case can be made. A strong case can be made. Is the David Ritz's biography of Mar-A-Gay, yes. Absolutely. I think it's called Divided Soul. And he makes a strong case that this song and this album in some ways creates the slow jam. Diyah, I just want to take a moment to put out there on the public record, people need to know this

about you. You and Bashir, your partner in crime for comedy making for last 20 years. You co-created Jimmy Fallon's Slow Jam the News. Oh, that's crazy. Yeah, we've worked in Slow Jamming for a long time. I mean, to Jimmy's credit, Jimmy has a outsized hand in what goes into that show. he has a great writer brain and he came to us he was like

hey I want to do something called a slow jam in the news where we do a slow jam but we talk about what happened in the news and at that point Bashir and I did go off and write what we thought essentially would sound like an Usher song okay I was in it wasn't based on let's get it on it wasn't based on let's get it on it was more like

the R&B of our era like shy and silk and Usher shout to Usher I think you know depending on when you're listening to this I think the Super Bowl just happened. So, you know, that man got out there and performed to the Super Bowl, which is crazy for Atlanta, my hometown.

But, like, yeah, it was really ambitious because, you know, only super fans of Jimmy Fallon would even know this. But when we sat down to write the first one with the roots, you know, it went over really big. It was on his very first episode. And then they were like, we got to do it again. And so we actually wrote an entirely different song for the second one about the AIG, you know, finance scandal of the time.

Like, it was really sort of... What was that based on music? Did you go to a different era for that? I think it was like, um, nice and slow by Usher was like our go-to on that one. And we were like, can we talk about A-I-G? You know, like, we were going to write an actual brand new, original R&B song every single time. You made insurance sexy. You made insurance sexy.

And then at some point, even Jimmy was like, we're killing ourselves. Like, there's a reason why people do this full time for a living all that. So we eventually settled in on this one version of the song that was similar to the first time we ever did it. So we didn't have to write a new. news slow jam the news song every single time. But, you know, writing an effective slow jam is not that easy as it turns out. And trying to make it funny is even harder. Well, the idea of a slow R&B sort of ballad or it's a romantic sexy right on that line that we were discussing earlier. You know, that's, that idea has existed for some time. Sure, there have always been love songs and there've

always been ballads. I think the difference here, again, is sort of the unchecked raw sexuality. And let's be honest here, the raw, unchecked black sexuality. I mean, like, you've got to realize we're just coming out of the civil rights movement. Black people are just starting to grow their hair natural. And this, in some ways, like, to free sexuality is the next step one could assume in the political movement. And I do find it really interesting that, you know, something like what's going on comes out. And it's so overtly political. Just two years later, he comes out with an album that's overtly sexual.

And now as a kid growing up, I always heard, you know, so many baby boomers and rock journalists say like, oh, you know, the 70s let down the idealism of the 60s. You know, everybody was trying to make the world a better place in the 60s. You hear a little bit of that in what's going on. And then by, you know, the middle and late 70s, it's all about sex. And everybody's given up. Sex and party and trying to make, yeah. And everybody's kind of given up on making the world a better place. But I will say, in defense of Marvin and those who were into freeing up the sexuality,

of the nation and the, you know, the mass, you know, human mind, if you will. You know, there have been a lot of religious trauma, you know, and there still is. You know, so to them, this would have seemed like the next step. And I know that Marvin Gaye said in releasing, let's get it on, he really wanted to make sure that people saw sex as a way of connecting with God. And so to him, after fixing society through political means, it was important for him to try and fix people's spiritual. and their view on God via sex because...

Well, that's so important to talk about you in the context of Marvin and his life. Because Marvin, Marvin is such a troubled figure historically. Just like looking at his story is really tragic. I mean, not just the way he was killed by his father shot dead at age 40. Heavy. Heavy stuff. But his whole experience with his father and his father's sexuality and his father being a preacher and his hidden transvesticism.

Which, again, is something that I feel like you hate it when I say this. I didn't know about his father's sort of ordeal about that. I was fascinated to learn that the E at the end of gay was not there at his birth. That was him separating himself from his father. Severing himself, but also giving a shout out to Sam Cook, who also had a silent E at the end of his name. And I guess that Marvin had to deal with like, you know, schoolboy taunts, you know, with having the last name gay.

So in another way, like this E solved a lot of his own personal issues. But you were just saying, I mean, he was obviously so traumatized by that early child. an experience of his father's conflicted sexuality, it sounds like, and his father's being a preacher that the sort of mix of church and sexuality and music for Marvin Gay was an avenue to figure it out in a lot of ways to sort of understand. It's a really interesting story. Apparently, if you look at the Midnight Special episode that Marvin Gay did in the mid-70s, there's a person who looks like a woman in the audience wearing a wig and a dress, and it's his dad.

Which is, again, like just something like, considering that his father, father was like this die-hard preacher who, you know, I don't think it can really be debated, abused his wife, abused his kids and, like, tortured him and never spared the rod, so to speak. It's just a really intense story. So Marvin getting into his sexuality with this song, with Let's Get It On, it was obviously a choice that he made that was even more fraught and weight. It's already culturally in 73 to be doing it was a big deal. I think financially from the perspective of like the like...

Motown. Record label not wanting this big change to happen. It was a big choice. And last but but not least personally, his own personal experience, he's being incredibly brave and vulnerable to come out and say, I'm a sexual being, sex is okay. It's 1973 and I'm Marvin Gay and Motown. Be damned. And yet the reception of this album is remarkable. Like, you know, again, growing up in the shadow of the baby boomers, I would have thought that what's going on was the biggest record of his career. But no, let's get it on comes out and not only outsells what's going on, but it puts him on a whole new level with a pop audience. Like this song, let's get it on, goes to number one. Yes. A overtly black sexual song goes to number one. And in a lot of

ways, it allows for the Barry whites. And even it causes a career change in the songwriting of people like Lionel Richie and Maurice White with Earthwind and Fire. It opens up almost like a whole new genre and a whole new space for R&B that to some extent continues to this day. I think that when we think about R&B in the 60s, it's kind of rocking.

It's kind of like a version of like the British rock and the American rock. Like they kind of have like these dance tempos. From the 70s on, R&B goes towards love and romance and love making, whereas rock sort of stays on a like, you know, get, up and rage out. But to your point, and the explicit sexuality that's ushered in with this song, before

it was romance, it was James Brown is pleading. There's, like, there's sexiness and there's romance, but it's not as, like, James Brown's screaming is not sexy in quite the same way as let's get it on crooning. Orgasmic screams on the record. I mean, like, we haven't even talked about some of the other songs on the album, but you sure love DeBal, like, you know, there are voices doing things on there. That may not be heard again for a while. and I think the only person who might have gotten to it first

might have been Serge Gainsbourg with his songs of like the... I think about the history of Melanie Nelson. History of Melody Nelson. So he's really in uncharted waters here. Okay, the foreplay is over. We told you. Put the kids to bed.

After the break, we'll be pressing play on the stems to this wonderful song and hearing Marvin Gay's vocals as well as that wah-wah pedal when we get back. Welcome back to one song. Okay, before we get to these sexy stems, you have a little bit of backstory for it. Right, I'm going to lead you up.

We were talking about what's going on, which came out in 1971. And here's the exact quote from Barry Coetty. I found that the worst record I ever heard in my life is what he said. You're talking about what's going on? What's going on? When Marvin turned what's going on into Barry Gordy, the head of Motown Records founder,

he said, this is the worst record I ever heard in my life. Marvin, you're absolutely insane. And this is going to be the biggest fiasco that ever was. I could tell you right now, what Gordy didn't hear was a hit single. Right.

He was like, I don't hear no singles. Yeah. I mean, it didn't sound like anything that had come before, but that's how art works. And that's why there's this,

always this sort of tension between art and commerce. And let me say, I have never stated the sentence in my life in defense of Barry Gore. Listen, sometimes you hear a big swing and you're just like,

there's no way. I remember the first time I heard Justin Timberlake's sexy back. Yeah. I remember thinking, I like house music. Yeah, me too.

This is a weirdo song. I thought it sounded so corny. Because the production is so corny. It's like a bad house track. The kick drum wasn't quite right. Like the sounds were wrong. And for a solid two years as a DJ, you could not get out of not playing it.

Like weddings and clubs and everywhere. But the first time I heard it, I was like, this is weird. And there's, it felt, with a come here girl. It didn't even sound like a good house. I was like, I was already into like dat punk and other cool stuff. I was like, this does not sound good.

So you know what, Barry Gordy. Sometimes you just can't hear it. Sometimes the artist can. He can't be perfect. Yeah, Barry Gordy, generally a perfect individual, but not in this case. So he didn't like what's going on. Thought it was going to be a big flop. By the way, fun fact.

I don't know if you already know this, but do you know at the beginning of what's going on, there's like a party noise, people talking. Do you know who those people are? You know who they are? It's Don Cornelius, right? Oh, it's, it's... Oh, I'm thinking of got to give it up. That's Don Cornelius and a bunch of people hanging out in the studio.

Is that true? Yes, it is. But tell me who are the voices we hear at the beginning? It's two members of the Detroit Lions. Whoa. Who then tried to recruit Marvin to join the team. And apparently he did consider trying out until he was convinced not to do that. Marlon was an athlete.

You know, like a little side step here. But Marvin Gay would go on Soul Train with his friend, Don Cornelius. and they would actually roll a basketball hoop onto the danceboard, and they would, like, shoot basketball. And I was thinking, like, you could have, like, the ultimate fantasy basketball team of, like, legendary singers. If you had Marvin Gay, maybe Prince at, like, shooting guard. Master P apparently almost made the Pelicans.

Okay. You know, and they just need, like, two other people. I'm going to imagine French Montana, I think, was pretty good at Rutgers. I'm sure the Internet could correct me if I was not. No, no, they'll be distracted by the fact that I had no idea there was a team called the Pelicans. I've been out of the loop for a while. The New Orleans Pelicans, if I'm not mistaken.

I just haven't paid attention to basketball for quite some time. Is Cornbread Maxwell still playing? Oh, gosh. We need to talk. But that's the subject for another time. But you were saying about Let's Get It On. So just a little bridge to how we get to Let's Get It On, after the huge success of what's going on,

Marvin's next album was actually shelved. In 72, he was going to, he recorded an entire record called You're the Man. And they did most time refused to put it out. But they did offer him, the soundtrack to a black exploitation film called Trouble Man. You have to remember, this is the era. Great album. I'm so excited to play.

This is, this is not my, I'm not going to use up my one more song. This is just a song I'm going to play. One of my favorite songs from this record. So this comes out in 72, which is right. Isaac Hayes' shaft comes out in 71. Curtis Mayfield Superfly comes out a few months earlier in 72. It's in the air, these incredible composers, black musicians that are making these black exploitation soundtracks.

And one of my favorite songs, I'm going to play for you now. is Marvin Gay. By the way, he composed and did the entire score himself. He's playing a lot of the instruments. This song is called T. Plays It Cool, and it's such a funky jam. And you're hearing Marvin play everything on this except for Sacks. Here we go. This is important to remember because it's such a great song. It's such a great jam. And this is where we have to reestablish the fact, by the way, that going backwards for just a minute, don't forget that Marvin Gay was a multi-instrumentalist. And when he was at Motown, Marvin actually is the drummer on the Marvettes, please Mr. Postman. No way. He's the drummer on Stevie Wonder's fingertips. Nice. And he's a co-writer

and the drummer on Martha and the Vandela's dancing in the streets. No way. So Marvin, multi-town. Postman and Dancing of the Streets, two amazing classic tracks. That's Marvin on the drums. You got Marvin on the drums. And, yeah, that's. But here, can I tell you one thing that you don't know about the Trouble Man soundtrack? Okay, tell me about it. I'm taking it back to me and Bashir's earliest forays into comedy. We wanted to find a name for our sketch group. Okay. And we were sitting there with our original sketch group members.

Nobody was famous. Nobody had done anything yet, really, in the business. It was me, Bashir, Wyatt Seneck, who a lot of our listeners will know, Robin Thidi. I know them all. We got to get them all on the show. You guys are listening to come on the show. Nevatari Spencer, Nika King, who is on Euphoria, Angela Yarbrough and Thomas Frazier

and the name that we decided for our group was Cleo's apartment. And Cleo's Apartment we got that name from the Trouble Man soundtrack. Is it a good movie? Should we watch this movie?

We're gonna do some one song movie nights as well. We should. We should one movie. We should, you know, like all black exploitation films, there's some stuff in there

that is extremely ridiculous and goofy, but there's some that's like, you're kind of amazed at like the filmmaking that goes involved and they're all different. Some I love,

some I'm just like, And the music is great. This record, it sounds like you can imagine Portishead going crazy with samples on this. You know, it's like it's very Beth Gibbons, but it's Marvin Gay. You know, it's a really great underrated record. So this is what he does after that record is shelved. By the way, on T. Play's a Cool. I hear a little wah-wah pedal.

We're going to talk about that. A little foreshadowing hits. A little wah-wah chunk coming up. Stay tuned. But first, let's talk about the song. Let's Get It On. It's released in June 15, 1973. And this is two years again after what's going on.

Lots has happened in me. song ends up going to number one for two weeks. It's his second number one hit after I heard it through the grapevine and it's inducted into the Grammy Hall of Fame in 2004. So how did the song get made? So Marvin hooks up with a producer named Ed Townsend, who was formerly a doo-op singer. He had a number 13 hit in the 50s called For Your Love. Basically, Gay is wanting to be the black Frank Sinatra. This is a quote from Smokey Robinson who says this. And part of this is hooking up with this particular singer who has experience working with strings and Townsend is like the secret sauce for sure

Townsend is the secret sauce he's the co-writer of this song he's the producer of the record and it sounds like he is sort of a dream collaborator for gay in this moment importantly Mr. Townsend has just come out of rehab for alcoholism and when he started he starts the song he actually writes the first draft

of Let's Get It On and his lyrics are more religiously focused I would say it's more of a religious song it's about overcoming addiction and it is the line Let's Get It On is in there, but as hard as it is to imagine it being separated from its sexual meaning at the time, let's get it on for Ed Townsend, the original writer of that lyric was, let's get it on life. Let's get on with life. Let's get past addiction. So it's really interesting to think of it that way. There's also, though, a middle step before we get to the sex version where it's rewritten once as a political song. Right. That's what I was talking about. Yeah. Clearly, gay is getting a little bit of heat for moving too far away from the, don't stay too far from this what's going on thing. So the second version he co-writes with Kenneth Stover, who's a co-writer, one of his collaborators.

It's more political. I'll play a little bit of the demo for you now, and you'll hear the exact same music. You'll hear a lot of similar melodic and lyrical stuff happening. But the focus is more about, you know, understanding in brotherhood and not sex. So peace and love. I love that. It should be, it's like the Ringo Star. Isn't that his catchphrase?

Ringo Star is always like, peace and love. So this is the Ringo. Maybe that's where Ringo got it from. Maybe this is where Ringo got that from. I mean, peace and love is pretty... That's been out there as a line. That second version, which was more political, co-writer at Townsend wasn't really crazy about it.

And he just really pushed Marvin to go, like, go down this path of love and sexuality. That's what we're doing. That's what this should be about for you. So they got together, they wrote the lyrics, and that's what the song is about. And I found this really cool quote. Marvin Gaye said,

and again, going back to his personal journey and story, he was clearly making a very conscious choice to be vulnerable and to sort of take on this topic which had been difficult for him, difficult part of his life and upbringing. And he wants to embrace and in a way preach to the rest of the world. That sex is okay. So what he says here is, I can't see anything wrong with sex between consenting anybody's. I like the word anybody's. I think we make far too much of it.

After all, one's genitals are just one part of the magnificent human body. I contend that sex is sex and love is love. When combined, they work well together. If two people are about the same mind, have your sex. It can be very exciting if you're lucky. I mean, I actually, I kind of agree. And I feel like, you know, I feel like his whole thesis with this album was like, we've made too much of sex in a bad way.

And we've sort of forgotten that sex is absolutely part of our programming. He's sex positive in 1973. That's a big deal. He puts the T.S. Eliot quote into the album liner notes. You know, the. life is, I believe, birth, copulation, and death, which, you know, depending on your mood can be really depressing. Really depressing or also really life affirming.

Yeah, it is life affirming. I think sex positivity is about taking what's been in the shadows because we're a Puritan nation in our history. It's like all this stuff about like the most fundamental fact of existence is the copulation part. It's wild. I feel like with this song Marvin makes R&B the music of making love. I mean, like nowadays if like someone says,

oh, I have a makeout tape, as we said earlier. Like, you don't immediately think, like, oh, I'm going to put on, like, you know, a rock song. Like, no, you really didn't plan a flag for R&B as, like, the music of, to the extent that even that wah-wah pedal, I'm just thinking right now, became sort of the soundtrack for, like, you know, there was a comedian name, I think his name is Jordan Brady, but he was on a show called The A-list,

and all of us kids saw this routine, but it was in the early 90s, and he said, anytime you hear a wah-wah pedal you think of sex you know you think a bow wow wow wow like he coined that fraybavillovian trigger bow chika wow wow wow which was like oh is that where that comes from that's where that comes from apparently and i think it you know between berry white and before very white let's get it on the wah-wah pedal just became synonymous with with making love it's a trigger yes it instantly excites the senses i want to apologize to my wife we have we think that there's no less sexy phrase

ironically than making love, but you're going to hear it a lot on this episode. So speaking of Wa-Peddle, we're about to get into the stems. We have to start with the guitar. The song starts with the Wai on guitar. So we're going to start with, we'll start with that in just a moment. First, let me back up and set the scene. It's March 13, 1973. And one thing I do need to point out as we get into this is because there was the 50th anniversary, there was a lot of archival research that was done to sort of dig into who the performers were. Because the notes taken on the day and literally the album liner notes

are terrible. They just list the songs. And then there's a list of everybody who played on all the songs, but you don't know who played on what. And part of why that's an issue is that half this record was made in Detroit with tapes that started years ago. And the other half was made in Motown West in Los Angeles. And so along the way, a lot of records were lost, and there is some speculation required to match who played what on what day. So I did a lot of homework and I did a our research and I think I got a pretty good job, but it may not be perfect. Let's start with the guitar. There are three guitarists on this record. You have to guess which one played the iconic intro. I'm going to name them for you. You have to guess which one played the iconic intro.

Okay, go. Let's play the iconic intro first, and then everyone can take their guess. And yes, we will be saying the word iconic on this show way too much. It's part of our brand. I almost have to apologize for laughing, but it has gotten to the point where because of the TikTok or because of just 50 years of being in the culture, that wah-wah-wah-wah-wah-wah it is almost a comical sexuality to it it's fantastic it's fantastic so what you're hearing that is a wah pedal and what is a wah pedal we all know what it is it's one of those things well it's a pedal that was invented in the mid-60s by the thomas organ company it what you're literally technically hearing is the sound of an envelope that's opening and closing so you're sort

of sweeping through the EQ you're hearing the highs not the lows with your foot so somebody is as they're performing on guitar, they're playing the part, the notes, they're moving their foot up and down, and it goes, wah. It's like opening and closing your mouth, essentially, is the closest analogy I could think, wow, wow.

That's why wah-wa is what it's called. Wow. And the origin, the origin of the wa, this is really interesting, comes from a white trumpeter in the 30s named Clyde McCoy, literally a McCoy from the Hatfield McCoy dispute.

Okay. And in the 30s, he was famous for having a sound where he used his trumpet with a wah or a mute. Yeah, with the mute. And it sounded like this. I'm just going to put this out there. I think he might be the guy credited.

Oh, no doubt. But as it is jazz. Because it is jazz. He definitely stole it from a black man. And there was probably a black guy out there. 100% true. Lamont Hatfield, who might have beat him to it. Maybe that's the origin of the dispute.

But you know, we may never find out. That is an important distinction to make. He is the one credited. He's the one credited. I don't think we are confident enough to say he invented it. We don't know. He popularized it, sure, made it famous,

and when the first wah pedal came out, they called it the Clyde McCoy. Cool. It is a tribute to him. So long story short, this becomes the sound of late 60s rock and roll, heavy rock.

This is Hendrix, this is Clapton and Cream. I mean, I typically hear that Hendricks is, you know, usually accredited with popularizing the use of the Wawa guitar. I think so too. And I think it's because of,

this song. This is Voodoo Child by Jimmy Hendricks. That is such an iconic sound and intro and what's innovative and new, it's like a new tool for guitarist in the 60s because you have to remember that if you're playing guitar in the 60s, your palette is relatively limited. You don't have all the effects that we've come to be accustomed to to to this day. At the time, the sound of your guitar itself, the song, the strings, the amp. There were fewer tools in the guitarist's arsenal for sound. And when the wah pedal came out, suddenly you could make it sound literally more human. It does sound like the human voice. It does have that wow-wah thing happening. So it becomes this new way of expressing

your sound, new way of expressing your guitar. So I think that the Jimmy Hendricks example is probably is among the first and definitely one of the blew up as a result of that as everyone wanted to emulate and be like Jimmy Hendricks. No doubt. All the guitar players that followed in his way Who's the guitarist who plays this on, let's get it on? So I'm glad you asked, because to my point earlier about there being three names in the credits for the whole album, you have to guess which of these three names played the while. Because I did two hours of research to get to this. There are three guitarists named. There's Don Peek, Arthur Wright, and Melvin Wawa Reagan.

Don Peek, all the way, all the money. It was Don Peek. Oh, was it really? Yes. Don Peek. Poor guy. He's like, it was me. The guy's name was Wawa, but he didn't play it. So he's out there on the internet trying to make a noise for himself. Reasonably so, because it was him. So this is Don Peek playing that, and I'm going to play it for you now.

From the stems. Okay. From the stems, isolated in the mix. Don Peake with that iconic intro. And one thing I want to say is that for the first, it's kind of fun isolating the stems on this for the guitar because for the first minute and a half, he's doing that. He's kind of like playing around, noodling. there's not a lot of things that he repeats. There's not like a riff that he kind of finds. Finally, after about a minute and a half of noodling, which includes what became the iconic intro, he finds this little groove, this little chuck. I'll give you some drums so you know how that fits.

It's on the two and four. Just keeping the tempo. And that's really all he plays for the rest of the song, aside from in the sort of B section. But the first minute and a half, he's noodling around. There's some mistakes that are really kind of funny. there's one in the interview to this day he still cringes because you hear it in the background and I had never noticed it until I heard it and here it is this is his clam at second 15

okay here it is I mean it doesn't sound like a mistake to me yeah it's it's a little bit sharp what up way it's just this tiny bit of it's a tiny little bit of him but I'm going to say let that one slide man because to me I think it sounds good they absolutely here's one more clam Call me at Towns, and I'm like, it stays in the mix. You hear that one. There's a little bong. Yeah. Yeah, I guess, yeah, but that,

that one's very much in the mix. You hear that one. I got to say, right off the bat, I didn't realize until just now how much I like the drums of this song. Like, the drums bring so much, the way that they come in strong, the way that they keep the tempo.

Like, the drums are really, really good. Should we hear some drums? I'd love to hear some drums. This is Paul Humphrey on drums. who also famously is the drummer on Steely Dan's Black Cow. Oh, wow. Okay. And he was in the Lawrence Welk Orchestra from 1976. This is a black dude?

Very eclectic young man. This is a black guy? He is. Wow. Shout out to Lawrence Welk. Never thought I'd say that. It's an episode of first. In defense of Barry Gordy, shout out to Lawrence Welk.

This episode's not going the way I thought. Let's hear some Paul Humphreys. Move. Interesting about this is listen to that kick drum. It's on the four. As a drummer, like if we both as drummers, if we were playing boom, I probably wouldn't play that four. I'd just go boom, boom, boom, boom, cab, boom, boom,

but he's going boom, cab, boom, boom, boom. It's really, I mean, like, there's also like a little bit of a, like there's a little bit on that snare that I had not noticed, but now I'm aware that I feel it. You feel it. Even though I wasn't paying attention to it. This is some, I mean, Steely Dan, good enough for, Marvin Gay and Steeley and, Lawrence Welk?

And Lawrence Welk. He's the man. He's also got some fun fills. Let's listen to a few of them. Because it's mostly just that kind of simple groove the whole time, just in the pocket, not doing anything fancy. He does have a little fun when he gets to a few of these fills. It kind of throws in that.

Yeah. A little buzz at the end. Yeah, he's having more fun with that snare than I would have thought. That's a fun fill to play. Yeah. A couple of open hat chokes there. And then one more, Phil. That's it.

He's moving into the B section there. Just something interesting about the structure of the song, by the way, is that it has just two musical sections. It's really just kind of a groove the whole time. And that B section, which we just went into, and I'll play for you what that means. It's this part of the song. Yeah, yeah, those bongas are a little boosted, so it's a little louder than they are in the real mix. Other than that, we've got kind of this really long intro. It's 45 seconds of intro.

and then we have, I would border on saying almost chorus free song. This isn't something where there's this big build and then the chorus. It's a B section. It's that part I just played for you, but it feels more like a bridge. It's just like a change. I feel like it feels like verse, bridge, and then it's chorus just from the lyrics, but the chorus sounds like the verse.

But it is the verse. Yeah, you know, that's what I'm saying. To your point, musically, it's kind of like two parts. Right. You know. It's very, very simple, group. So that's the drums. And even that bridge, what we're calling the bridge,

is more of a build to the chorus, which musically is just the verse again. Yeah. I mean, if anything, it feels like we need to change this. Actually, to that point, on the album, there is a second version of Let's Get It On, which is called Keep Getting It on. And they don't have the B section.

It's just straight three minutes of just the straight proof. On I Want You, there's the song I Want You. Then like about halfway in, there's the I Want You Instrumental. Yeah. Which as a DJ, you would often. and play that like when you were like, you know, trying to sit the mood. It feels very much constructed. There was an awareness like, look, we need for there to be a change for it to be radio-friendly.

But like on the dance floor, like, you know. But, you know, to that point, James Brown records famously have, let's take it to the bridge. It's just so you have a break from the 10-minute groove you just started it and you're about to go into again. So that's kind of what that feels like. That's more of a funk-inspired break from the action. So let's keep it moving with the bass. This is Wilton Felder from the band The Crusaders. Second half of this record I mentioned has the Detroit players,

the Detroit performers from Motown and the Funk Brothers. So James Jamerson is not on this track. The internet is wrong. It's Wilton Felder. And here he is playing a little foreshadowing of what we'll be talking about late on the episode. A baseline that a certain... A baseline I think is iconic. That we all think is iconic.

Okay, I'm glad you said the word not me. And I'll just play it isolated and then I'll add some drums and some other things. You can hear it in the mix. it's dead simple. It's really difficult to imagine him not listening to this song he's writing that foreshadowing of what's to come later on the episode. Here it is with some drums. We're going to get so many hate that four-cord cycle, four-note cycle throughout the track.

I will play this one moment where he gets a little bit fancy, a little tainty bit fancy with a fill or two. He's just trying to keep himself interested for the five-minute duration of playing four notes. Mine is the B-section, I should say. So that's Wilton Felder on bass. Thank you, Wilton Felder, for all of the people walking around on planet Earth that you help facilitate with that super sexy baseline. Super sexy.

Oh, let's not forget there's a second guitar, by the way. And this one's a little bit more on the comping kind of chords tip. And I don't know who this is, but I did mention those three players before. It's one of the other two. It's either Arthur Wright or Melvin Wawa. Might be Melvin Wawa. Might be Melvin Wawa. Not playing the non-Wawa part.

And here it is. And here's how it sounds for the other guitars. It's crazy. When you just have that one in there, the one that we've noticed probably the least. Yeah. It sounds a lot more like an Al Green song. Yes.

You know what I mean? It sounds like Al Green who, you know, is another one who I think had like some great slow jams. Yes. Big Al Green fan. Around the same time. Yeah. Yeah. I think also there was some heavy competition between gay and green. I read some interviewer. The interviewer mentions Al Green almost in passing. And then his tone, gay's tone changes immediately. He gets kind of like a little more agro.

I wonder that's because, I mean, like Al eventually becomes a reverend. Maybe Al reminded him too much of his dad or something. I could be. And by the way, so that guitar part just playing chords, really keeping it simple, which is very similar to what the piano is doing, not a lot of fancy stuff. And in fact, when I heard the guitar part, I almost. wasn't sure if it was a piano. I'll play you the piano and then I'll mix the two and tell me if you can tell them a part. And this is Joe Sample also from the Crusaders playing the piano and also played on Steely Dan's Black Cow. You can't even hear the guitar because they're practically doing the same part. No, but that piano sounds so good, man. I mean, geez, it sounds like nice and, nice and meaty. That's a chunky piano going on there. Beefy. Very church, too. Very church.

I feel like if we had Duran Bernard on the show, he would be freaking out because he loves that churchy piano. Yeah, he does. It sounds great. So on saxophone, so this is another situation where we've got three different names in the credits. I'm pretty sure this is Ernie Watts. It might, however, be Piaz Johnson. It could be Buddy Collette. Different sources have different names.

Just DM us the real answer. Just DM us the real answer if you're one of these guys. We'll try to spread the word. Or their estates. And here's the sax part when it enters at about 115. So that's happening in the horn section. We've got perhaps those three names in some mix. But here's the thing.

If that's Ernie Watts, that'd be great because he is the guy who did this. That's right. Ernie Watts did the Nightcourt theme song. However, if it wasn't Ernie Watts and it was instead P.S. Johnson, he's the guy who has the sax solo on this. So we're not sure. horn player who did which theme song could have also been the third guy it could have been the third guy poor buddy colette i don't have any theme songs for him poor guy that's what's happening in the horns it could

be all three of them and and not that it's a competition but buddy colette even if he didn't have a theme song and he's on this record is a monster of a player with credits as long as your arm from mingis to buddy rich to little richard and then some france and bassi neck king cole and nelson riddle no relation we would need an entire episode just to list his credit so whoever the horn players were they were good and they They were the best of the best. But only two of them had TV themes. D'allel, I'm sure you're as excited as our audience is to hear Marvin's isolated vocals. We're going to get to that.

We're going to get to that. But first, when we were talking about this episode, planning what to do, the idea of a makeout tape kept on coming up. So I think we kind of need to pause for a second. So I've got to ask you, Diallo, what is on your ultimate? Ultimate. What would be the ultimate makeout tape for you? Well, I, you know, I haven't made a makeout tape since my cassette deck broke. But I will say that this does come back to my relationship with this song.

I'd probably heard this song in various ways, you know, growing up. But it was actually not until college in the mid-90s when I was like trying to make a makeup tape. And a buddy of mine was like, he was like, oh, man, I got the old chick of this out. And I remember this song came on. And I was just like, about the time the drums came on, I was like, whoa, that sounds like audible sex. Like it was like it was a different relationship with it. Something about the music that really just cross-line into... Something about Let's Get It On, the way that those drums came in.

Like, it just didn't matter that it was already a song over 25 years old or something like that. Like, I was like, I was like, oh, yeah, that's got to go on there. And I think just because of when I was around, like, I think about the other songs on there, there was, you know, Die Without You by PM Dawn made the cut. There was actually a Nusher song off his first. album that made the cut. There was the House of Music album by Tony, Tony, Tony

that I kind of like sampled liberally from, just because so many good you know, for the lack of a better term, makeouts. And then, of course, the waiting to exhale soundtrack was really big. Hey, and you know what, D'allel? Let's just hear one. Let's hear, like,

pick your number one. I know this is like a Sophie's choice, but like what is the number one jam out of all, sex jam on all this? I think one of the ones I have to mention is Lay Your Head on My Pillow by Tony, Tony, Tony. Let's do it. The song was produced by Tony, Tony, Toe, which tells me that it was the Wiggins brothers, Raphael Sadeek, and Dwayne, and I believe the drummer of the guitarist is Timothy Riley. No relation as far as I know to Teddy.

Sexy Slow Jam. That's your number one. Is that still your go-to? Not anymore. I mean, like, you know what's interesting about me? make-out songs, we share a special relationship with them in that if you're in a relationship and like that's your make-out song with one person, like it feels wrong to, so I retired that one before even the end of the 90s and long before my, my current wife, and we have our own,

you know, so she's never experienced that particular song. No, she's not going to know that. That Diallo was young. I was like, you know, she's better off for not having that. You know, I will say that my song with my wife is A Sure Thing by Miguel. It's not even just a makeout song. It's like, you know, a song that I associate with us dating and falling in love. And even when we got married, we have pulled the curtain back on my sexy times.

Now we know. I feel like in a vulnerable way. I appreciate it. I feel very vulnerable. I feel exposed. Luxury. What went on your makeout day? I'm so curious.

When I wanted to get down in my earlier years, I would just put this on and, you know, ladies would melt. Okay. I'm saying, I believe this is not true. This is not your makeup music. I meant to do this one. You get freaky to Vivaldi. You know it. Big cap.

You know it. I'm calling Big Cap. There's no way this is your makeup music. That's true. I was lying. That's not, that's not. But you, part of you was like, now this can't,

you thought that it was more of a, it's not that you thought you thought this can't possibly be true. I hope it's not true. No, it's more like it's almost too cool for school. I want the vulnerable you exposed as I've exposed myself. Not in that way, HR. What is your make-out music? I think you cannot beat this.

I mean, to this day. Okay. Oh, okay. First note. Yeah, by the way, I already knew it for the first note. This is one of those songs where everything about it. That beat, I've wanted, that is a prince erotic city with Sheila E. And this is the B side.

It wasn't even a single. It was the B side to what? Let's get crazy? Let's go crazy. It's let's go crazy. It's the B side to let's go crazy style. It's the B side to let's go crazy, which means that I am first hearing it literally at age 12 when I bought that record. And on the flip side, I'm hearing this song.

It's made me walk a mix of time. Bucks are pretty you and me. Rodic City come alive. One of the most egregious uses of funk. I was going to say. That's the best part of the song. How many years did it take me personally to kind of really pick up on the fact that she ain't saying what you think she's saying? I mean, like, do we have the stems to that?

Because there's no way she says funk. I think this is masterful because I think you're right. But it's somehow massaged into you simultaneously thinking that it's, wait, she can't have said that. But she did say it. But no, it's definitely funk. Yeah. No, I think she's saying F you CK. Shout out to my show.

Brilliant. Brilliant show. The show show showcase. We did a song called F is for Funkin. And we just made fun of all the ways that people were like, you know, like, it smells like someone's been funking in here. Like, you know, it's just like, I think from the time that funk became a word, it was just like a word that like. Plautable Deniability.

Yes, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sorry. Who's that vocal? Is that Sheila E? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Shout to her. We'd love to have her on the show.

Oh, man. That song just to this day has so much going on. Can I tell you what song of mine is sort of like that? This did not make my makeout tape in the 90s, But when I was about 12, I feel like the Madonna, it's so goofy, the Madonna song, Justify My Love was like that. Oh, that's a sexy song. Like I was like, whoa, this song sounds like sex. Like, you know, and I was just coming into my own.

I know. It sounded like a makeout session. And when I was about 12 and, you know, probably had a crush on my sixth grade Spanish teacher, that song was pretty appropriate. All right. We have exposed ourselves yet again. but let's expose some vocals. I mean, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Male vulnerability. You know that we love to get it.

We love to do male vulnerability on the show. What a better episode than this one. Marvin's vulnerability is seeping into our beings. Two guys talking about love on today's show. What are the things we have from Let's Get It On? We got a few more left. Again, this is, there's an entire orchestra. There's a total of 12 different instruments and 16-trapes.

Which is probably a holdover from what's going on because that sounded like, you know, well, but I'm saying like the orchestral. The orchestras of that one felt very much like wall of sound. You know, like, they were very, like, lush in that sort of like late 60s way. I think that's right. I don't hear as much orchestra on this song, but you're saying that they're there. You know, it's easy to forget because I did forget until I went back and listened to it. I know that there's a violin coming in that's amazing to me personally.

We're going to hear some strings. We're going to hear some vibes. And then we're going to hear some vocals. So let's start with the strings. Yeah. This is a string section of indeterminate number because Rutgers weren't kept. But I do know that the name of the... Barry liked it that.

The arranger and conductor is Renee Hall. This is all recorded live. And let's hear some of those gorgeous strings. It's interesting. Like, it's kind of funky, I would say. Bordering on funky? Just a little bit of that top line just now. You don't have a very complicated relationship with the word funky.

Like, I just, maybe it's because of my age. Anytime I hear the word funky, I hear like. It's white person saying funky, funky. There's something. It's like somebody unironically say, it's jazzy. When you got classical players and strings on a Motown on Marvin Gay track, it is the equivalent of me saying, the word funky. But you know, I will say I love

Gay's use of violins in general. I mean, like, those violins are part of what really get me there emotionally when I'm listening to what's going on. I don't... It's also on grapevine, too. It's also like a Motown. That's true. It's definitely a Motown thing. It's definitely that thing like, you need to feel like a

class act, which is why they had names like, you know, the parliaments and the Supreme. It was aspirational. It was like, the cleanest of the clean. They don't have the same effect on this album or on I want you, which are just coming along at a different time in the culture, but their presence is felt, especially that first violin part you played.

I love that sound. Yeah. So beautiful, so lush, so simple. Yeah. And just adds another dimension to the whole. Absolutely. Let's go to the vibes. Are these like a vibraphone?

This is vibraphone by pretty sure it's by Victor Feldman. You hear the bleed again. The band is playing together. It's really playing the chords there. Let's find a... part a little later. Again, it's like that Motown thing where it's like I wanted to sound elevated and super clean, you know. It's almost the opposite of what, you know, the stones and other, you know, British bands. They wanted muddy waters. They wanted like that down, get it out of the mud type

sound. Right. And this is very like, no, you know, black people have been through a lot. We wanted to sound clean. And to a certain extent, it doesn't surprise me that these musicians goes on and plays in Steely Dan because, you know, I feel like Steely Dan has. a very clean sound, which is one of the reasons why hip-hop artists love to sample Steeley Dan. Right, yeah. Very clean, and you can hear all the precise. And also the choice of the vibes as an instrument is interesting, because it's at the intersection of being a classical instrument,

being a jazz instrument, Lionel Hampton, et cetera. This is a song that's R&B and soul and pop. There's so many different genre kind of characteristics floating around to make what let's get it on is ultimately. And the vibes add another element of jazz, I would argue. you. All right. Now, with no further delay, we are going to talk about one of the greatest voices in not just R&B history, but one of the greatest voices of the 20th century, Marvin Gay, a voice so silky and perfect that he could take other people's songs and have bigger hits. It's important to note, he wasn't the first singer on, I heard it through the Great Vine. It was a Gladys Knight and the Pips song, but it is the Marvin Gay version that we all know and love. It's just a phenomenal voice, and we have it for you now. What do you want to play for us, luxury? I've been really trying Trying to hold back this feeling for so long

Let's just keep listening, I mean This is the voice of a 34-year-old person, by the way. Let's keep hearing. And if you feel like I feel, baby, then come on. Oh, come on. Let's get it on. Let's get it on. This is one of those songs, like I underpire.

pressure. I feel offended by myself stopping this. I don't want to stop it. We just have to pause and talk. But one thing that jumps out to me immediately is like you can hear him like on the louder part is coming back off the mic and then getting in close for the whisper. Let's get it on. But then he backs, like I love

this. I love that you can sort of like figure out where he is in the room when he's singing different parts. Well and by the way, so what we just heard it's 45 seconds until we get to that's the intro. Right? Like that's kind of the chorus as an intro. That's as much of a chorus as we get. The Beatles did a lot of that.

Jumping around. Yeah. And then here's verse one. We're all sensitive people with so much to give. And this is also the part of the song where the backing vocals come in. So let's hear what that sounds like. It's super beautiful. Oh, since we got to be here.

It's all Marvin on backing vocals. Let's live. I love you. Don't you? You know how sweet and wonderful life can be. Let me love you. So much urgency. Yeah, and I love how it's layered.

It almost like visually, I just imagine that scene and enter the dragon when he's in the room full of mirrors. Like, you know, like, I just imagine like all these different Marvin's like, you know, each thing in their part. One's just like, let me love you. And then one's like hitting these crazy high notes and it's just, it's magic. It almost acts like it's like a dialogue. Now's probably a good time as any to bring up the fact that, according to the book by Ben Edmonds, Marvin Gay, The Last Days of Motown Sound, there is a woman in the room and she's quite young.

And it's not his wife. It's not his wife. But it is soon to be his next wife and the mother of his two children. And I found this great quote that kind of explains what Marvin's Headspace is as he's singing these lyrics, as he's singing these vocals we've just been hearing. This is Janice Hunter. This is Janice Hunter, soon to be. be his wife. The presence of this young girl compelled

him to perform the song to her and in doing so it was transformed into the masterpiece of raw emotion we know so well. So there's one more part of the song I'd love to hear. It's that part at the very end when Marvin really just lets his voice go crazy. Can you play it for us? Sure, sure. Let's hear a little

some of that stuff towards the end. If the spirit moves you let me grow. Good. Let your love come down. Oh. Get it home! I can't stop.

I mean, there's so many good parts in there. There's no bad parts. No bad parts. You know, you got that. You got, gosh, there's so many wonderful parts in there. Not, you know, aside from the loudest part, the most, you know, in the spotlight part. There's so many good thoughts in there. I mean, the man had so many hooks in his head.

So Marvin's doing all these beautiful adlives. coming up with ideas for new melodies, new little things, little coos and cause. And he starts to run out of ideas. So he asks Ed Towns and his co-writer, his producer. He goes, what should I do here? So Ed goes, you know, how about something like sanctify? So Marvin literally, so Marvin literally sings something like sanctify.

Here that is. Some like sanctify. That's like say, good night, Alice. Good night, Alice. Exactly. You're not, Gracie. Yeah, exactly. That's great. I didn't know that's why I even said that. But the thing I always liked about, sanctify.

And then the clap. You hear that clap, which just reminds you that it's a human in the studio. It's not AI. And that gets us back to the church thing, too, right? And it just, we go out. It's only the last 15, 20 seconds that those claps are in there. There's something so cool and mature and human about Marvin Gay in ways that, like, you know, sometimes gets, loss in the sauce in some of today's music. It's just like it's so human.

You feel like there's a human singing there, which tells me that at some point there's going to be an AI function where they're going to have Marvin Gay, AI, Marvin Gaye singing over. I don't know how you would even do that. I mean, you could train. It's not going to be good. How would you even do that? There's so much raw human emotion.

It would be all uncanny Valley stuff, which is what we already have mostly. Well, we did that one episode, though. Remember the Madonna, we did the Mass and Attack episode. So we showed what would it have been like if? If Madonna had done teardrop by massive attack, and that didn't sound right, but the Ariana Grande version, that kind of sounded possible.

Sounded plausible. Yeah, it sounded a little bit like it could have been the real thing. No shade on Ariana. Not at all. Please come on the show. We are desperate to have you on our show. Okay, so let's talk about samples

and interpolations of this song. Very good. I'm impressed. So famously, I think I owe you money now. Famously, Ed Shearin was accused of ripping off. Let's get it on with his song, thinking out loud. That's right. This happened in 2014 and he was accused of plagiarism. It took six years for the trial to go to

court but it happened this past summer and there was a conclusion. I will very briefly tell you about that but first what I want to say is that we usually talk about samples and interpolations. This episode is a little different because it's neither of those things. That is neither that is not what happened in the song. There were no samples used and there were no interpolations.

Interpolation, as we all know, if you've been listening to the show or watch my TikToks, is when a melody is reused from one song to the next. So it's the same notes, our sung or played on an instrument one song to the next. Neither of those things happened in this song. Let's hear the Ed Shearren song because I want to bring that back up when we're done. Darling, I will be loving you till 70. So that song clearly has some similarities. You know, we all, I think, in the room, and certainly Ed Townsend's family, those are the ones who brought the case.

It actually wasn't the gay estate who brought this case. It was his co-writer Ed Townsend's Oh, wow. Family who heard the similarity and decided this is too close for comfort. This is plagiarism. They brought the suit. And I'll be talking about that in just a second. But the question is, are they the same? What do we hear?

Why does that sound familiar, I guess, is the question. Because there aren't, as I mentioned, any samples. It is not a sampled composition, nor there are any interpolations. There are no the same melody reused. What it is is the drums and bass are essentially in lockstep in both songs. about 80 bpm, the beats are the same, the bass, the four chords, while one of the chords is slightly different, they're essentially the same, and the bass, the motion, the rhythmic motion is the same. There are strong rhythmic similarities in the drums, in the bass. It is literally the same drumbeat. They're both about 80bpm. They both do this thing where every second chord lands on the and so it's one and two and three and four and one and two and three and four and. And so that's called harmonic rhythm.

they match, they match. There's a lot of matching. But there aren't any exact same melodies being used. What are the same, or similar enough, I should say, are the chord changes. And this brings me to my new word of the day, which is, we've heard sampling, we've heard interpolation. This is a new word to add to your repertoire when things sound the same, and the word is contra-fact. It's a bit of a funny word. It just means that the chord changes are the same. It is the foundation for all things jazz. If you've ever heard the blues before, you've heard the same three chords, one, four, five. There's that famous Axis of Awesome video where they play like journeys, don't stop believing into Bob Marley, no woman, no cry. It's the same four chords.

We know that this happens very frequently, but it's not illegal. No one can own a group of courts. And that's why this case is so important. And I know we're both excited to talk about the conclusion of the case and what it means, because the significance of, and just to cut to the chase, Ed Shearin, that was his defense in court. His lawyer essentially said, listen, the letters of the alphabet of music are chords.

These are the basic musical building blocks that songwriters now and forever must be free to use, or all of us who love music will be poor for it. They brought in, in just legalese, it's called prior art. They showed that those four chords were not just an Ed Shearin's song as well as, let's get it on. They were in a whole bunch of songs that proceeded, let's get it on. In other words, if Ed Shearin's not allowed to use it, well, neither is, let's get it on because it was used in Georgie Girl by The Seekers in 1967.

The same four chords were in the band song The Wait. They hound a whole bunch of prior art examples demonstrating that like, if you're saying that Ed Sheeran can't use your chords, well, then you shouldn't be allowed to use them either. That was essentially the defense. And I'm making a very long story short to get to the point, which is that they won the case based on this idea that nobody can own chords. And that to me is a really important conclusion. I'm so glad that the jury decision. And by the way, Ed Shearin got a million dollars basically just to pay for his legal fees. But he did win in court.

Well, listen, I am happy about the Ed Sheridan verdict in the sense that I feel like the blurred lines verdict was wrong. I think that that tied an artist's hands to is somebody out there decides, well, no, the notes are not the same. but, you know, I feel like it's the same song. Well, I thought that was, I thought the blurred lines verdict was very flawed. We couldn't agree with. In fact, I think of that, those two cases, blurred lines, just to a quick recap, in 2015, this is when Robin Thick and Faroe Williams were sued on a different Marvin Gaye song, got to give it up by the gay estate.

And they were found guilty of plagiarism, essentially. Insofar as it was determined that while there were no, again, samples and no, again, interpolations, no melodies were reused. There was what the musicologist and their legal team on the plaintiff's side called a constellation of similarities, which means nothing is the same, but a bunch of things are kind of similar. So the drums are kind of the same. You had the bottle percussion, right?

The movement of the chords from one to four, whatever it was. Nothing was exactly the same that is illegal, but all of these elements from the percussion to like the phrasing of certain, rhythms in the vocals were similar enough that, hey, and it didn't help, by the way, how Robin Thick was in the courtroom. I think famously that was a big part of what convinced the jury was that Thick was a little bit arrogant in his testimony. So anyway, all this to say that we totally agree that that was the beginning of a pretty bad time for musicians to be afraid that what they had done that was vibing similarly to another song might be considered plagiarism of that song, which we both

strongly disagree with. Right, right. I heard about Robin acting that way in court. And I'd point out, Ed Shearren shouted down the opposing musicologist. So I think in general, try to be your best self in court. Here's the only problem I have with this verdict. Again, I am a fan of artists having as many tools as possible. And again, I think the blurred line ruling was wrong. And I support the Ed Shearer in ruling, but I will say, the first time I heard thinking out loud, I was DJing a wedding. That's how I made my living then. And the Brian the groom requested this song that I hadn't heard before

but as one typically did in that time downloaded it, had it ready to go, fired it up, played it. This is actually before the blurred line rulings came out. The second I heard it that loud I was like, wait a second. Wait a second. You heard it. I heard doongch. Yeah. I mean

it's unmistakable. Doonch. Like it's so similar and I'm sorry like as a DJ sure there are times when I hear songs and elements of songs that are similar. And I'm frequently thinking, well, maybe that inspired that thing. Yes, which is not illegal, by the way.

Great artist steal. Yeah, totally. Being inspired in influence is not illegal. This one did feel different to me. And I was a little bit too reminded of just the negative history of white artists coming along and taking something from a black artist. I'm sorry, I hate to go there. But that was running through my mind.

I was like, man, I wondered the gay families heard this song. when the court case came forward, this is after blurred lines. And, you know, admittedly, I watched a great curiosity to see what they were going to say. I think that in general, Ed Sharon is probably more beloved by the music industry than Robin Thick, who had already had, like, personal scandals of his own and an ill-received performance at the MTV Movie Awards. It was just music awards. It was just, you know, look, it's a complicated thing. I cannot hear thinking out loud.

Yeah. More without thinking about, let's get it on. That's not how I feel, even when I hear the Sam Smith song that brought Tom Petty's family out. Like there's so many of these cases where I'm like, yeah, I can see what your point, but let the artist cook. This was the one time where I was a little bit like, it seems a little bit too similar. Just my personal opinion. But obviously, court disagreed and everybody, everybody's moved on. I totally, that's a really fair point to make.

And I think what's really, it makes me think about when I do hear the songs together musically, literally the underbody, the underpinning instrumentals, that to me is where the similarities are. I was just, I was admittedly, when I heard that song for the first time, I was singing the lyrics to let's get it on in my head. And I was just like, wait a second. Well, first of all, that takes us back to the Axis of Awesome example where it's like there's playing the same chords, but they're just moving from Journey to Toto to Bob Marley, proving the point that contrafact is a phenomenon. that's just how music is built.

I think if we're going to apply the law, it just needs to be applied evenly. So to this day, I feel like Farrell and Robin might have been wronged, especially considering that their notes aren't even the same has got to give it up. So I just feel like if Ed Schurin didn't get in trouble, then you kind of, is there an appeal for this sort of thing? I think you've got to go back and address what was actually decided in the Blurred Lines case. I agree that that case is sort of a travesty. But just to finish the thought you were saying about the wedding scenario, that you had in front of you.

I think when I hit musically, the two songs are similar, but let's get it on is a little too sexy maybe to be like, I mean, there are, during the dancing section, maybe. The lyrical content, though, matters because there are no melodics, the melodic similarities on top are pretty, are pretty minimal. So you're saying, if I got, let's go crazy, I say, let's do our taxes. Like, if I just change what he's thinking about, I don't know, man.

On your sex mixtape that we were talking about where you have, let's get it on, are you going to ever think? think about, maybe I should replace it with the Ed Shearing. It's just a completely different song. The vibe, it's about it's not a sexual song, it's about long-term commitment and romance perhaps. And the Marvin Gaye song is more pretty heavily

siding on the sexual side and the urgency side. I mean, but then why? So that's a pretty big difference between songs. But if you think about he's so fine and my sweet Lord, I mean, those are very different subject matters. But that's where the melodies are the same. So you're saying it's because it was the bass and not the guitar? That's exactly right. Because we privilege This goes back to your comments.

Why are we privileging the non-rhythm instruments? I could not agree with you more. D'all, you're hitting upon a big musicological discussion right now. We have been privileging melody in Western litigation over music over. That's why, to your point, that's why a James Brown record with funky drummer, when that sample, first of all, the drummer got paid $50. I understand, for the record, I understand why drums is difficult because they don't have different, I mean, unless you're playing a timpity, there's no real difference.

in tone there. And there's like a limited number of but why don't we give it credit to the ideas? But I would say the bass does have notes. And when the bass is doing the exact same thing, then it sort of seems like well, why are we splitting the hair of this is the guitar and this is the bass?

Drums I get. I love this argument and we could carry this. This can be and will be on more future episodes this discussion because this topic is so near and dear to my heart and the subject of the book I'm working on. But I love, everything you're saying, it's not a, it is is absolutely not black and white.

And there are many fine points that you're making that I'm like, you're right. That is an issue here that makes it challenging to have a fair, simple doctrine that everyone can look at and understand. That's what I'm looking for. I'm looking for fair and I'm looking for slightly more simple. Yeah. In the leaning towards the artist and what the new artist wants to do,

because I do think there are a limited number of notes, there are a limited number of chords. Yeah. And we don't want to stifle. Listen, I'm just going to say one more thing. which may or may not make the cut, I'm fully aware. But hopefully this will, because you just made me think of it. And it also may be funny for the podcast.

Here goes. I just want to say one thing, exactly to your point. I mean, I can't believe you said that, actually, because I've just come off, remember when I came off of that nerdy weekend in Denver at the American Musicological? I did. I just had a nerdier weekend, potentially, where I was on a panel for AI and music for this group called the Copyright Society, which was a bunch of attorneys. I was the musician on the panel to discuss the legal issues with AI and music.

And what you just said was such a core topic of conversation because I'm taking the position as a musician that like, hey, I want to be able to play around with AI tools before you make hard and fast rules that determine what is and isn't legal. It's too early now. You messed up. Basically,

I said to a room full of lawyers, I was very proud of myself. You guys messed sampling up because you did. You made it so that in the 80s we had these wonderful sample heavy records. But you couldn't figure out a way to simplify the process so people could understand. how to easily use samples in their work and make new art out of it. We won't be getting any more nation of millions or three feet high and risings in quite the same way.

And what I was saying was... Those are public enemy and bomb squad albums to the end initiative. There you go. De La Sol is Prince Paul. And we also want to continue this idea of using new tools like AI to make new art by having freedom before we litigate. Before we come up with rules that we don't even understand how they're going to operate and shut down new types of artwork.

Absolutely. That was my nerdy weekend. We want Andy Warhol to be able to make something using the Campbell Soup logo. Reusing ideas should be easier than it is. With credit, attribution, and money, obviously being paid to the original. We want to figure out how to make that easier, whether it's an interpolation, a sample, or AI. Yeah, but obviously the AI even makes it more complicated. But if it's contrafact, it's free.

Contra fact, I am still getting used to. Word of the day. Alternative facts. Well, no, no. It sounds like alternative facts. The funny thing is it's not a fan. You know what's really funny about that word is that it's a word that you will almost only ever find like on the internet or in books.

Like you will know, if you ever talk to anyone who's a jazz performer, they won't, the concept will obviously be core to what they do because soloing on top of chords and calling it a new composition is the history of jazz. But no one, no jazz performers like, yeah, I'm going to, I just made a contra fact. Like, I just turn that track into a contra fact. I think we need more agreed upon facts. So, Diyala, I have so enjoyed talking about Marvin Gay. And let's get it on with you.

See, whenever you say let's get it on, you have to be careful what comes next. Let's get it on, comma, with you. I enjoy talking about the song, let's get it on with you. This song is over 50 years old now. Marvin passed 40 years ago. What is the legacy of this song and Marvin Gay to you? You know, I think that it is just one of those really important songs. Again, it was a number one song.

I think a very untraditional. traditional number one song for that period or any period for that matter. And the legacy of Marvin Gay, I mean, like, it's almost like, what is the legacy of the Beatles? I think that Marvin Gay continues to inspire people to make music. It inspires definitely the genre that he's most closely associated with. And, you know, it's still the language of love. There's something about his voice and the passion in it that inspires passion for people not just to make music, but to make children and to make love. And I'm really glad that we chose this for our Valentine's Day episode.

Who is the new Marvin Gay? Do you think there's a modern version? Can there be a new Marvin Gay? It's almost like who's the new Prince. I mean, like, there are a lot of people who try to be Prince. They're obviously artists, everybody from DiAngelo to Siza. I mean, like, I think his influences everywhere. I think if anybody is sort of like, you know, at the top of the pyramid in R&B right now,

it's probably Siza. I think that her sales and streams and, and just, you know, penetration across, you know, the pop culture. Very few people are doing what Ciz is doing today, but I don't even think she's necessarily the new Marvin Gay. I think she's her own artist. I think, if anything, Marvin Gaye has carved out a unique legacy that, you know, will be all his.

Okay, so before we go, we're going to do one more song. This is the part of the show where we share a new song with you, the One Song Nation, and with each other. It doesn't have to be a new song. doesn't have to be an old song. It's just one song that we will probably never get to do its own episode on, but it's one more song.

Luxury, you go first. What you got for me? Well, over the break, I made a discovery, an old discovery, like a band that's been around for 40 years, but I just discovered them, one of those. And perfect fit for the episode, because the song is a love song. But the band is New Age Steppers.

It was more of a project, this post-punk dub combination in 1981. gentleman named Adrian Sherwood, who you may recognize as a very famous remixer, Depeche Mode onwards. He's been doing it for 40 plus years. But in 81, he brought together Ariup from the Slits with this group of Jamaican musicians. This is all happening in London, so they're all London, England-based, and put together this beautiful blend of a dub song, a cover of a dub song by Bim Sherman,

with some Jamaican musicians and some members of the Slits, just in this wonderful post-punk combination. And the song is called Love Forever by New Age Steppers, 1981. Love it. This goes on. It's a seven and a half minute dub journey and it's Ares vocals by the end. She's going crazy and wailing and screaming. By the way, she's only, I think, 18 or 19 when she records this.

So that's my one more song. Love Forever by New Age Steppers. What you got from me, deal? This is a song by Bill Wolfer. Bill did a lot of work with Stevie Wonder, very similar to how. how Ed Townsend works with Marvin Gay. And when you listen to this, it might sound like a Stevie Wonder song. You can imagine Stevie singing this.

But I thought it was a really good song. It seems like Bill might have kept this song for himself. The song is called Wake Up, and it's a really groovy song. I'm going to try and find you a good little snippet to enjoy. Check this out. It's a cool song. Bill Welford, by the way, was on Billy Jean. He played on Billy Jean.

Did he? Keyboards on that song. So good. There was something in the sauce then, too. We got to break that over. we have MJ vocal stems, don't we? We need to do a Michael Jackson episode. Because if you listen to the way he does his layering and comping, it's insane.

Yeah. I forget which song they had on the internet, but I think it was want to be starting something or something like that. But they had like the nine Michael vocal tracks. And each one was a fucking classic. But put together, I was like, fucking him and Quincy knew what the fuck they were doing. They built a stack just insanely. Like these, the number, there's maybe 10 or 15 different notes like parts. And some of that, and it's not just root third, fifth.

It's like seventh and ninth and ninth and 13th. It's crazy. It's jazz. As always, if you have an idea for one more song, you can find us on Twitter or X if you must, but really, really, find us on Instagram. Find us on TikTok. I'm at Diallo, at Diyah L-L-O on Instagram and at Diallo riddle on TikTok. And I'm luxury.

that's at L-U-X-U-X-U-R-Y on Instagram. And on TikTok, I'm at Luxury X-X. And by the way, we're on One Song this podcast. We love it when you go rank us, rate us, give us reviews, five stars on the podcast platforms. It really helps. So now is the time that I'm going to remind you, if you haven't done it yet,

go give us those five stars, write us that review, and share with your friends. Spread the word, One Song Nation. Let's expand. Let's take over the planet. Luxury, help me in this thing. I have been and continue to be producer, DJ, songwriter and musicologist luxury.

And I'm actor-writer, director and sometimes DJ Diallo-Riddle. And this has been one song. We will see you next week.