One Song - Roberta Flack's "Killing Me Softly With His Song"

Episode Date: April 10, 2025

This week on One Song, Diallo and LUXXURY dive into the lore of Roberta Flack's 3x Grammy-winning cover of “Killing Me Softly With His Song.” In their discussion, they journey through the life of the song, unpacking the complicated origins of Lori Lieberman's original folk ballad and highlighting the transformative changes in Roberta Flack’s iconic interpretation. Plus, Diallo shares a remix of the Fugees' version that all the heads used to love. This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/ONESONG and get on your way to being your best self. Songs Discussed: “Killing Me Softly With His Song” - Roberta Flack “American Pie” - Don McLean “Empty Chairs” - Don McLean “Killing Me Softly With His Song” - Lori Lieberman “The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face” - Roberta Flack “Days Go By” - Dirty Vegas “Back Together Again” - Roberta Flack & Donny Hathaway “Killing Me Softly With His Song” - Fugees “Killing Me Softly (Sound Barrier Mix)” - Fugees ft. Bounty Killer “Bonita Applebum” - A Tribe Called Quest “Fool Yourself” - Little Feat “Memory Band” - The Rotary Connection “wanna be tied” - Salon Music “Won’t Cry” - Amber Mark Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Lectury today, we're talking about an iconic singer and brilliant pianist, whose blend of soul, gospel, jazz, and folk made today's song uniquely her own. That is right, Diallo. In 1974, it won three Grammys, Song of the Year, record of the year, and best female pop vocal performance. And let's not forget the Fugis loved this song so much they made a version of their own. This song strums our pain and sings our life. Sure does. Today we're talking about one song, and that song is killing me softly with his song by Roberta Fleck.

Before we continue with the show, we wanted to tell you about another podcast that might be right up your alley. It's called Life of the Record, and it's a documentary podcast hosted by Dan Nordheim. It's all about the making of a classic record. The unique thing about Life of the Record is that it features the artists, musicians, producers, and more who are all integral to how the album was made. Each episode tells the story of how one album went on to become a classic, directly from the people who were there. You'll hear surprising insights from artists like Spoon, Pixies, Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, Violent Femmes, Minor Threat, and Richard and Linda Thompson. Love Richard and Linda Thompson.

Covering albums across different eras, music scenes, and genres, Life of the Record offers in-depth looks at some of your favorite albums. Listen and subscribe to Life of the Record on your favorite podcast platform. I'm actor-writer-director and sometimes DJ Diallo-Riddle. And I'm producer, DJ songwriter, and musicologist Luxury, aka. the guy who whispers. Interpolation. And this is one song. The show where we deconstruct and celebrate your favorite songs from the past 60 years in music history

and tell you why they deserve one more listen. You will hear these songs like you've never heard them before. And if you want to watch one song, please go to our YouTube channel and watch this full episode. You'll see what we're doing with our hands. While you're there, please like and subscribe. A lot of binging happening in the show. You guys are missing out. Audio only.

So Diallo, what version of Killing Me Softly with his song? By the way, the full title, some people just have the killing you softly, then they give up. They're like, that's enough. There are three more words. Killing Me Soffly with his song. Which version did you hear first? Was it Roberta Flack? Was it the Fuji's?

I heard Roberta Flack's first. Yeah. But I will say that the first time that it hit me as just like this amazing song was when I popped in my CD for the score, which was the Fuji's second album. CD is a compact disc. Is that correct? It compiles these songs together. It compiles MP3s together onto a flat plastic disc.

And you have to have one if you want to hear that. You want to hear that crisp sound. That crisp sound. What about you, Luxury? When did you first hear the song? I mean, the Roberta Flack version is just somewhere baked into the recesses of like growing up memory. It was probably on AM radio, FM radio constantly. It sounds like a song from the 70s.

Everything sounds a little. I feel like the 70s is one of those decades. We might be in another one right now. But it feels like there's like this massive hangover from like the 60s where everything needs to be kind of soft and kind of like, oh, we're going to loll you to bed now. Yeah. It just feels baked into, yeah, there's like a childhood nostalgia because I probably heard it then. But also, I mean, we're going to talk about this when we get into the stems. Like the chord changes and melodies are very evocative of like older music. They seem like this has been a series of chords that have been around for centuries in a lot of ways. So I think that's part of the magic of the song. The sound of the 70s is so distinct, and Roberta Flack is absolutely a part of that. And we've lost so many of those voices from the 70s. And just one week alone, we lost Roberta Flack, Chris Jasper, Win McCrae, Jerry Butler, all in one week.

It's just, you know, at the time that we're recording this, Roberta Flack's loss is weighing heavy on our heart. So this felt like the perfect time to do this episode. And Roy Ayers. Yeah, which we'll cover in an upcoming episode. But now it felt like the perfect time to talk about Roberta Flack and her contract. not just to the music, but to the culture. That's right. This is a classic era of sort of a new kind of singer-songwriter,

which is bringing in R&B influences and gospel and church, but it's also on the pop radio being a huge hit, being a huge Grammy-winning hit. So a lot's going on in this time. So we need to start with the unsung hero of this episode, almost literally, by the way, because as you may already know, neither the Roberta Flack version nor the Fuji's version

is actually the original version of the song. Both of them are covers. And the original recording was sung and co-referption. written, importantly, and we'll be getting into that in a big way, by a 20-year-old singer-songwriter named Lori Lieberman. Oh, yes, I was completely unfamiliar with her name and her story before we started researching the episode. You know, I'm not surprised.

She's essentially been written out of the song's history. It's only in the last decade or so that her story is really getting out there. Well, we want to make sure that we give credit where credits do. So let's talk a little bit about the original version of the song by Lori Lieberman. How did it come to be? Okay, so the unsung hero is mentioned. Lori Lieberman was a 19-year-old singer-songwriter when she moved to L.A. in 1971. And she signs a management contract with a gentleman called Norman Gimble and his writing partner, Charles Fox.

Together, they're a lyricist composer team. Gimble famously wrote English lyrics for a lot of those Hobim songs that we talked about. I know, the girl from Mipanima. How insensitive the songs that Astrid Iberto made famous. Yes. Moves to L.A., does a lot of film and TV work. Wrote the TV theme song for this. Sunday, Monday, happy days, Tuesday.

Wednesday, happy days, Thursdays. That's right, he did TV theme songs for Happy Days, Laverne and Shirley, Wonder Woman, like, this guy's making a killing. And by the way, these are all really good songs for TV. They're great songs, just face it. Well, and he's writing them with Charles Fox, who's the composer, the two of them together are a team, music and lyrics.

Fox, on his own, Fox, by the way, also did The Love Boat with Paul Williams, fun fact. So they're doing great in film and TV, but they want to get into the pop game. So they signed this 19-year-old singer-songwriter. So the three of them together are working on music together and Gimble and Lieberman are having an affair.

He's cheating on his wife. He's 44. She's 19. She's young and naive and excited to be in L.A. making music with these two famous musicians. So, you know, it's important just to set up that there's a bit of a power dynamic on day one here, which is not in her favor, shall we say.

So they're a part of this, you know, Laurel Canyon, James Taylor's scene. So inevitably, stories like these lead us to a night at the troubadour, which is very close, very close proximity to Laurel Canyon. And what happens? So in 1971, Lori Lieberman goes to see Don McLean, who's famously on the charts with a huge hit, American Pie. I buy Miss American Pie. So Lori Lieberman hears Don McLean play this song. That although you said you go until you did, I never. She hears the song and she says, quote, I felt like he was singing about me and my life.

And she can't leave. She's one of the last, she stays till the end of the show. She's sitting by herself at a table. And she writes a poem on a napkin. On a napkin. On a napkin. She calls Gimble, the lyricist, her lover, her older lover, and reads the poem to him and says that, quote,

he kept calling me afterwards asking for details where I was sitting, what I was feeling. this is the point where it's important to point out that part of Gimbel's process in working with Lieberman was to read her diaries to go through her notes and letters and personal effects to get a sense of what it would be like to be a 19-year-old. He was very much wanting to write truthfully

from the perspective, quote unquote, the authentic voice of a 19-year-old. But that's a big part of this story because at the time there's contemporaneous reports, we'll get into a minute, where this was the process they talked about on the Mike Douglas show in Billboard magazine. Right. It's important to point out because later on, they would change their story.

But in this moment, they're taking clues for what Lori Lieberman's first record, the 10 songs that she comes out with, should be about her experience, including this napkin experience of watching Don McLean. Now, the phrase, killing me softly with his song. Right. That title is apparently, at least according to Gimble and Fox, right? All of them agree. All of them agree. Even Lori agree. That came from a line, killing me.

softly with his blues, which was in a book that was given to, I think, Norman by Lalo Schifrin, one of our favorite composers. Right. You know, he gives him this book. For lyrical inspiration. They wanted to write a song. The book was called hopscotch by this Argentinian writer, Julio Cortezar. And it was intended to be some lyrical inspiration, which it was.

It turned out to be a perfect fit for the napkin story that he had just heard from his younger Amor. And the second we started the research for this episode, I was really, interesting talking to you about this because we talk about this a lot on the show, the idea that it's really hard to pinpoint. Was it the basis who came up with that baseline? Was it the drummer who came up with that fill? Was it one, was Prince running around the studio playing everything and just telling everybody what to create after that, you know? And which of those contributions are worthy of the lifelong royalties that come from a publishing credit? It's money for the rest of your life. I think that's where we can 100% agree because I do think sometimes,

this comes into play as I'm a I work in the screenplay trade, you know, like there are times when you'll use something to sell an idea that's kind of trish, but it's also like a little bit of exaggeration because it just sounds good when you're pitching it. It sounds like I'm a horrible liar, but that's, you know what I mean? Like, you know, no, when you're when you're selling your creative thing, you're usually bringing up only the good stuff, you don't share the bad stuff. You do get the sense that Fox and Gible thought, hey, this song written by a 19 year old is 100% what happened when she was at this Don McLean concert.

Oh, by the way, we're going to keep 100% of the publishing, which is pure nonsense. It's pure nonsense. But it does get muddy once you try to figure out what was Lori's contribution versus what was their contribution. According to Gimble and Fox, they claimed that they wrote like almost all the lyrics and handed it to her. The thing is at the time in 1973, so there's a Daily News article where Gimble says, she told us about this strong experience she had listening to McLean. I had a notion this might make a good song. The three of us discussed

it. That's one of several quotes from the media at the time where there's no questioning that the three of them collaborated to write this song. Yes. And the only thing I bring up is that because I know that in research, Gimbel and Fox saw Lori as their Dionne Warwick. Like they wanted to be Bert Baccarach.

Totally. Right. And Hal David, yeah. Yeah, exactly. and How David to Lori Lieberman. Down to the cutting her out of the publishing. Right. So maybe when he's giving these articles, he wants to make it seem like, oh, yes, this all sprung from her. But I'm keeping all the money when, in fact, it might have been a shared process between all three of them, in which case she should have been cut in.

And she was not cut in. I have no doubt that Lori Lieberman got screwed out of the lifetime of royalties from the song. And just to finish with the title, because we were talking about the book was the inspiration for the killing. The line from that book is, quote, to kill us softly with some blues. And in that same Daily News 1973 article, Lori, is quoted as saying, Norman had a phrase he liked,

killing me softly with his blues. But I didn't feel the word blues was, quote, contemporary enough. We talked about it. We finally decided on the word song and said it seemed right when we did it. So she's right there on the public record saying the song title was a collaborative effort right there. She's telling the truth. Laurie is, no lies.

There's no lies coming from Lori here. You're right. So without further, or ado, let's hear the original version of Killing Me Softly with His Song by Lori Lieberman from 1972. Draming my pain with his fingers, singing my life with his words. Killing me softly with his song. What's primarily different is the arrangement.

It's the instrumentation. It's so different. And of course the vocal of the livery, but the instrumentation, it's a folk song. It's slower than Roberta Flach's version. Yeah. But it's very much of the Laurel Canyon, you know, It's very much a folk song. It feels like Joni Mitchell.

It feels like Johnny Mitchell. It's piano. It's guitar. It's vocals. That's about it. Yeah. Lori's version starts discernibly different than the Roberto Flag version. No, listen, let's just talk briefly.

We'll get more in the stems. We'll get more detailed. But like some of the major differences between the songs, it's the same song. It's the same chords. It's the same lyrics. It's the same melody that we hear two more times, as we'll be discussing on the episode. Let's hear a little bit of that opening so we can hear the difference. Like, it takes forever.

It's very dramatic. It's like some cheesy. It's like love story. Like some cheesy movie. Love story. Holy spokes, yes. A very different opening. Very different opening too.

Like you said, melodramatic. It almost feels like it'd go in front of days of our lives a little bit. It sounds like the theme to a soap opera. Absolutely. Or love story. Like just some like really melancholy but like modeling. You know? It's also really important to point out right now that this song was not a hit.

Like nobody attached to it would say the. it was hit at this point in its life. No, not at all. It flopped. It was not a successful single. It didn't do well as a single. The album didn't do well. And even though she was supposed to do more music for the label, I think they recorded a second album, but like they didn't release it. Like this was a relationship that went away. In fact, literally a relationship that went away. Her and Norman stopped dating. Yeah, they stuck. He actually got divorced and they stayed together until 1976.

There's a lot going on here where you just have a lot of empathy for this young woman who's in a She's 19. Unbalanced power dynamic. She wants to get out of her contract that she signs with her. They won't let her. They say that if she wants to get out, then she has to pay them $27,000, which she doesn't have.

It's a lot of money back then. It's a lot of money now, but it's a whole lot of money back there. There were other stipulation. So she doesn't get out of the contract. She's stuck in the contract for another decade. So she quits music effectively. She leaves,

she leaves her love, her talent in the dust because it's just such a messed up situation, financially, psychologically, like it's just all kinds of messed up. The fact that they were trying to penalize her for leaving them when they hadn't even established much success with her, to me says a lot. And then to add insult to injury in the way this story ends with their involvement is at a certain point they stopped mentioning her in the story of how the song comes about to the point of Fox's autobiography, not even mentioning her, saying that the entirety of the songwriting composition process was just

Fox and Gimble. So real quick, what are the splits in this pretty messed up situation? So the songwriting splits for killing me softly with his song. All of the versions you'll be hearing today, 50% of the royalties, the publishing splits, the writing credits and publishing royalties, go to Charles Fox and the other 50% go to Norman Gimble. Or his estate, because I do believe he passed a couple of years ago. That's right. Or some, the totality, though, all of the publishing royalties go to those two. To Charles and Norman. Insane. Insane. Insane. I've read for the longest time. I've heard of Flack didn't even know about Lori's contribution to the song. But if there is a overlining, it is that in 2019, the two women were able to meet, and Roberta was able to thank

Lori personally for her hand in creating the song. That was a nice gesture, yeah. And on the flip side, Lori acknowledged Roberta Flack's contributions. Laurie Lieberman said, quote, mine was a small little folk song in a way. It had strings, and it was guitar bass. And what she, talking about Roberta, and what she made it into was something I never could have imagined. So let's talk a little bit about how Roberta Flax's version came to Yes, yes. Well, to answer that, let's back up a little bit and talk a little bit about who exactly Roberta Cleopatra Flack was. I know Cleo Flack. How is she not Cleo Flack? That is a great performer name. But you know what? Roberta Flack worked pretty well for her. Let's talk about who Roberta Flack was and where she was at this point in her career at that time. So Roberta grew up in a Methodist church, which she says was musically very different from growing up in like a Baptist church. What's the difference? I mean Baptist Church. I mean, Baptist Church. I mean, I grew up. in the South, like, you know, Baptist, Pentecostal, you might be there all day. There's a lot of, there's a lot of hard singing going on in the pews.

Methodist is more succinct. They get to the point. Yes, exactly. I mean, like, you know, my mother was Episcopalian. Going to an Episcopalian church compared to like a Baptist church, very different experience. Roberta grew up singing, you know, in this Methodist church, more classical, more sacred music like Handel's Messiah. Then, at age 15, she received a full right to study music at Howard University.

yes, age 15. That's amazing. You hear that 15-year-old of mine. Do something with your life. I don't know if you can get a full ride to Howard at this point, but I believe in you. Is this an intervention? I believe in you. Yes.

He's actually doing great. He's a wonderful kid. After Roberta graduated, she started to pursue her master's degree, but unfortunately she had to drop out when her father passed away. So after that, she began a career as a school teacher, and she basically did night gigs with a jazz trio in the evenings. That's right, and it was during this time that she was discovered by jazz legend Les McCann, who thought she was so incredible he called a producer at Atlantic by the name of Joel Dorn, who insisted on signing her without even hearing her, just based on McCann's recommendation. So initially, Roberta wasn't selling too well on Atlantic Records,

but then Clint Eastwood put her song, The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face in his film, play Misty for me. All of a sudden, she's winning a Grammy for a song she recorded three years prior. Let's hear a little bit of the first time ever I saw your face. And by the way, fun fact about this song, it was the wake-up music for the astronauts aboard the Apollo 17. I don't know how this song could wake up anybody. Yeah, on the flight day 9, December 15th, 1972, the final day in lunar hour wet before returning to Earth. They listened to that song and they fell right back to sleep.

Talk about your sleeper hit. All right. But look, I still can't get over the fact that this was a three-year, truly a sleeper hit. Can you imagine it? I mean, like nowadays, that's becoming the norm again. because TikTok can plug a song out of like the 2000s and suddenly and earlier. And it's a hit.

Right, right, right. Imaging Heap and, you know, even Fleetwood Mac. Totally. It's really incredible how one filmmaker or TV showrunner's decision, you know, deciding on that one placement can really change a life. Somebody reminded me of Days Go Bye. Yeah. Oh, that one.

Was in one Mitsubishi commercial. And then all of us DJ started playing it. That was Days Go By and Says. That was Days Go Bye by Dirty Vegas. So it's so random to me. I told this story a couple episodes ago. Like I had a song that was placed in a Pontiac ad, which was a Transformers movie. So that was so fortunate.

And it did kickstart my career. But I often wonder had I not sent that one CD to that one person. It's such the luck of the draw. It is the luck of the draw. Speaking of luck of the draw, we may not know the song killing me softly, except for the fact that luckily, Roberta Flack was listening to a music channel on her flight. and just ran around. American Airlines happened to be programming.

So just to you guys. Non-hit songs, right? Yeah. Well, I guess they were like songs. Who knows how they got placed on this channel. But as the story goes, you know, on American Airlines a long time ago, you couldn't hit repeat. You couldn't hit fast forward.

You just had to sit there and listen to these songs. And at some point, they would repeat during your flight. But while Roberta was on a flight, skimming through one of the music channels, she hears killing me softly. And Roberta immediately hears the potential. And much like Lori's experience, listening to Don McLean, Roberta starts jotting down ideas for a cover. I like to think on like a Pan Am napkin. Yeah.

American Airlines. Don't get the brand wrong. Very sorry. Sorry to you, Pan Am. There's none of you to come after me. Roberta starts jotting down ideas for a cover. And she works out an arrangement because she's a pianist and a wonderful musician. When she opens for Quincy Jones at the Greek theater here in L.A.

a few weeks later, she plays this song as a, I think it was a second encore. Like she played her planned encore. She comes out for a second encore. The crowd goes nuts. They love it. And after the show, apparently Quincy tells her, Ro, don't say that doggone song no more until you record. Doggone it. This is Q.

That is a great underused substitute for an expletive. Yeah, Quincy was eloquent like that. So she takes Q's advice. She takes Q's advice. they go into the studio and record the song, November 17, 1972, at Atlantic Studios in New York City. Importantly, I'm glad you brought up.

Roberta Flack arranges this track, and it is a different arrangement, and that's part of the transformation. There's a lot of things that are different from the original, but one of them is the arrangement. We'll be getting into that a little more. But that is, that's a skill.

Like, being an arranger, Quincy Jones was an arranger. People forget, like, one of his major skills was, what do we do when? Yes. From the component parts of this existing song, what should go when, instrumentation, what section should come after what section. There's some really important

changes that Roberta makes. And the version she records is a huge hit. It's a huge hit. At the 1973 Grammys, it wins record of the year. It wins Best Female Pop Vocal Performance of the Year, and it even wins Song of the Year. But Roberta Flack obviously only wins for Record of the Year and Best Female Pop Vocal of the Year. Because Song of the Year Grammy goes to... Right, that goes to our unsung heroes of this episode. Gimble and Fox, the two co-writers of the song. were the only ones who take that Grammy home with them. Exactly. Leaving out our unsung hero from earlier in the discussion.

Yeah, and it should be stated right here that even though Roberta made some very large arrangement changes to the song, she did not. She did not, like Lori, get a songwriting credit on that Grammy. That's right, yeah, because the Grammy of the year for Song of the Year, we've talked about on other episodes versus Record. The distinction is the publishing, the songwriting itself, distinct from the recording, all of the changes are considered part of the recording.

They're not considered part of the song itself. But you know, sometimes, like, you've changed the song so much. I'd be so curious to know, how do credits work on a cover? Like, it seems like when people make changes on the scale that, like, Roberta did, they should get cut in, right? You know, the line between where a cover and an interpolation happens is actually very interesting. Essentially what makes something a cover, and when you have a cover version, you don't need to get permission. That's the whole point of what's called a mechanical, compulsory mechanical license. We can cover any song we want.

It's by what's called in the copyright law. It's called a compulsory, meaning you have to, mechanical license. So if somebody wants to record your song as is, they don't have to ask permission. Wow. But if they want to make changes to that song, and that's where the sort of line is, like it's sometimes it can be a lyrical change, sometimes melodic change. It's not chords. It's not arrangement.

It's not instrumentation. Those changes don't materially change the song from a composition standpoint, from a copyright. Wow. So if I change just one lyric, something I'm like, Dear Depeche Mode. If you start getting into lyrical changes like that, that's when you have to start knocking on doors with your lawyer and making sure and negotiating what the cost of that change is going to be. Wow. Well, we're going to hear a lot more about that, I hope.

We're going to take a quick break. But when we get back, you will not only hear the amazing musicianship on Killing Me Softly, you will hear the isolated vocals of one, Ms. Roberta Flax. Actually, several Roberto Flax, because she's in those back-in vocals, making a beautiful stack of harmonies. We will bring you multiple flax after this. This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Traditional in-person therapy can be quite a financial commitment. Costing between $10,250 a session that can really add up. But with BetterHelp, online therapy, you can save up to 50% per session on average.

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Enjoy. Welcome back to One Song. Now we're going to dig into these stems and really highlight what makes Roberta Flax's version of Killing Me Softly with his song so special. That's right, T-all. Well, as we alluded to in the earlier part of this episode, right out of the gate, it is extraordinarily different because we're starting with the chorus.

So remember, Reverta Flack is singing the song. She's playing the roads. And she's also did the arrangement. And one of the first decisions, it sounds like she made was to like, let's start with this hook. Let's start with this chorus. That has worked so well. I mean, like, there are a couple of trends that we see now that we've done more than 80 episodes of this podcast. One of them is that starting with a chorus is not a bad idea.

Not a bad idea. I'm thinking it's actually. You rarely regret it. There are other Fuji songs. We're going to get to the Fugis by the end of the episode, guys. There are a couple of other Fuji saws that famously start with the chorus, this song being no exception. So in the recorded version, it starts with the chorus, as we just discussed.

Killing me softly with his song. Killing me softly with his song, telling my whole life. So good. I'm just gobsmacked, speechless. It's so beautiful. One thing that doesn't really get spoken a lot about Roberto. of flag is how she enunciates so well. The clarity.

Yeah. Both of the line, the lyrical line and the note are both so like a bell ringing. It's the clarity is. It's truly angelic. And the very first line is isolated by itself. You just hear one single Roberta Flack. The second line she harmonizes. And by the third line, it's an entire choir of Roberta Flacks with reverb.

And it hooks you in immediately. But let's do something you've never heard before, which is those individual parts on their own. I would love that. Well, let's hear now the isolated harmony that comes in on the second line by itself. And then I'll start piecing things together. Killing me softly is one note. That is so cool because you can hear like the person who has to teach harmonies to students. Like that's the music teacher in her that she's able to find that.

those intricate harmonies. Yeah, and part of the arrangement process, in other words, what she would have built before singing, or perhaps on the fly, because it's her doing the arranging as well as being the singer herself, is finding which notes to harmonize with,

because these are close harmonies. Some of them move, some of them don't. We just heard a note that didn't move very much. She stayed on the same note for a lot of those lines. There's one more harmony. There's actually five or six more harmonies. I'll isolate one more, just so you can hear, and then I'll bring them together.

Killing me softly, with his song, telling my own life, with his words, killing me softly. And I'll bring in the lead. With his song. It's so satisfying when it all comes together at the end like that. It's so good.

Beautiful harmony stack. Gospel-like harmony. It feels like church. It feels like the choir. Well, like you said, it comes in. It seems to almost come in with one voice and then you hear two, maybe three, and then by the end you hear four or five different harmonies in there. And it's just, like you said, it feels communal.

Yeah, and it just really draws you into the song just immediately. Well, we'll come back to the vocals a little bit later. But for now, let's back up because right after that moment, what happens in the song also differently is we have drums, which weren't on the original. And the drums obviously give it an important feel because it drives the song forward. It's also faster. The tempo is a lot faster, or I should say a little faster,

enough that you really feel it. Yeah. But another interesting thing, and this is great... Well, that's one that the Lori said. She said she did speed it up. Yeah, and it makes a difference, too. I'm going to point out something interesting about the drums in a second,

but first, props to Grady Tate, who's the drummer. He was the drummer in Quincy Jones's band, by the way, in the 60s. He played with another one of these cast of characters that just have credits like as long as your arm. It's Jimmy Smith, West Montgomery,

Astrid Gilberto, Count Basie, Duke Ellington, Ola Fitzgerald. This guy's played with the Greats, and Roberta Flag. So here he is coming in with a really interesting choice of beat. Now listen to what he's about to play, and I'll bring some other instruments in

and explain to you what you're hearing. And here's percussion by Ralph McDonald. Now, what do you hear about that beat that's unusual? Where's the kick drum? Four, one, two, it's a reggae beat. It's a one-drop beat. If you go back to our Bob Marley episode,

it's called one-drop because you're not hearing the kick on the downbeat. So I'll count so you can hear the beat. two, three, four. Notice what's not on the one, or not on the three, four, there's no kick drum on the one and the three, four, one, no kick drum, three, no kick drum. Well, there's a little bit of a syncopated thing there. But the absence of the kick drum on the downbeat is one of the signatures of the one drop beat,

which is one of the famous reggae beats, as we talked about on our Bob Marley episode, It also came up on the clash episode in another context. But no, it's interesting that in this song, I'd never noticed until we were in the stems, that it's doing the opposite of driving the beat forward. It kind of keeps it hanging a little bit. That's what the absence of a one, that's what it does to your, almost to your body a little bit.

Yeah, I think what is interesting. I love the fact you pointed that out is that when I think about it, I think about like, boom, cat. Yeah. Boom, cat. And you're saying there's nothing. Yeah. That's unusual.

You won't find very many of any funk beats, for example, or R&B songs or rock songs. Right. Like, we've talked about the one. Yeah, James Brown told us. The one was so important. The one is almost in theory. Drop it on the one. There are many people telling you the one is the one is the one.

In theory, the one, the theory of the one in funk, which James Brown came up with, is that all you need is to have a kick drop on the one. And then what happens after that, it's chaos. Can be syncopated chaos. And as long as you land back on that one. but so this is sort of the opposite of that beat. Is only Jamaica doing that? Well, not.

Like in other words, where would they have gotten this from? Did they do it? Because you've got to remember, this is like 1972. I don't know that they would have known. But except that Roberta Flack did originally record this song in Jamaica. I have a lot of questions about this. We weren't able to sort of definitively determine who in Kingston, Jamaica was on the original recorded demo, which we know took place there.

I don't know if it was the same performers. But if they were in Jamaica recording the song, it might have been in the air in 1971. He was on a dub track. They would have been hearing it everywhere. They would have been like, I want to try that out. It's very possible that Grady Tate had that idea. And then it got brought over when she recorded it here. Isn't that interesting?

I love that. That's kind of cool. All right. On bass, we have the legend, Ron Carter. Interestingly, he's very famously known for being not just a stand-up, you know, double-base bass player, but for having a little bit of a, like, kind of thing about it. Like, that's to him what real bass is. he's famously said. I think Miles Davis

wanted him to play in his electric band when he went electric and he didn't, he wouldn't do it. But interestingly, on this song, he's playing electric bass. He just didn't like Miles. He just didn't want to do it for Miles. I think there's a quote where he said he would be locked in forever if he did it with Miles. And here at least he had the choice for session work. So he chooses to play on this song, electric bass. So let's listen to Ron Carter playing the iconic little fills at the beginning into verse one. And then he goes into verse one.

I'll bring in some beats. You can tell the one drop thing. So the bass is playing the one, but not the kick drum. They're kind of trading back and forth. It's interesting. Bass, snare, bass. Bass on the one. Yeah.

Can you put her vocal so we know exactly where we are? Perfect timing. I'm in my bag with his fingers. Singing my life with his words. So in this moment, he then starts add a second note, a chord, basically a two-note chord, which he, through the course of the song, he kind of goes back and forth. I'll play you now in the second half of the chorus. Here's Ron Carter adding some chords. Here. There it is. You know, it's interesting, seeing the stems,

just sort of looking at it and thinking about those choices, there are only, there's drums, percussion, bass, and then there's roads and guitar. So it's very sparse, instrumentally speaking. So the addition of a second note in the bass is a substantial thickening of the sound because there's just not a lot happening. So, I mean, that's just one of the choices that a master like Ron Carter obviously makes on the session in tandem with a master like Roberta Flack.

Between the two of them, that choice was made. It could be that Ron did it, and Roberta's like, that's awesome, do it again. Because later on in the song, he starts doing that a lot more. I'll play this one more section of Ron Carter on bass where he's having a lot of fun with these chords. This is happening in one of the first. the final choruses.

Right? Those are all two notes at once on the base. So they're really thick sounding. I'll give you some vocals. That's impeccable. It's impeccable, yeah. Great choice. I hear some roads happening on this one.

What's going on with the roads? Yeah, we could hear some of the roads was like in the bleed and the headphones earlier. We knew it was coming. She's playing the roads. Roberta's Flack is playing the roads as well as singing. It's possible she might have sung a couple takes while she was playing. actually, I'm not sure if I'm listening to the stem.

Some of them are cleaner than others, some of the vocal stems. But in any case, that is, her performing it. I want to quickly just tell you about the journey these chords take, because it is quite the journey. In the verse, it's a little bit of that cycle of fifths thing, circle of fifths thing we talked about on the Miley Cyrus Flowers episode, where it kind of evokes classical music in a way to my ears. Like this type of journey, it feels like a Bach thing.

It doesn't feel like a modern music thing to do. Well, let's hear it. Let me hear if I hear what you're hearing. So those first four are the circle of fifths. And then they kind of repeat. And I'll bring in the vocals for context. And he just kept on singing, singing clear and strong.

It's so hard to stop the vocals. I never bring them in for context. You just want to hear the whole thing. And when we started off the song, she sounded like it was soft and it was angelic. And then you get to these moments and it sounds so big and powerful. Like her vocal range. I want to say she enunciates, but like it's just there's something, you know,

because we've done so many R&B and soul singers who sort of belt it. Right, right. That's not what this is. In some way she's belting, but in other ways it's just, there's like a pure sort of like natural raw force. I hear it's coming out there. It's kind of a speaking voice. She's not belting.

She's not Shaka conning or Donna Summering. and, you know, by the way, song to song for those artists as well. Sure. But in this one, it's more of a kind of spoke. It matches the music. It matches the tone. And it sounds really cool. And you hear that difference between, you know, the Methodist version and the Baptist version.

You know, this, this. What would the Baptist version have been? I don't want to attempt it. But I really love what, it really reminds you why people love Roberta Flag. It's the specificity of what she does with her voice. Yes, the choices. Very few other people sound like Roberta Flag. other than Roberta Flack. I also want to point out that, you know, nowadays we have

the Alicia Keyses, the John Legends, like there are a lot of people who sit at the piano and sing. There's something so specific about hearing Roberta's vocals, you know, with her just on the roads. Like, that is just a, that's just a talented human being. Look at where we're going with all this is. If she never sang a note, you'd think, wow, that, that Rose Pater is really killing it. But then to know that she's also the arranger and the singer of the song, like, she's wearing so many hats. Her ownership of this song is in many ways coming from all of the things you're talking about.

All of that totality of all of that is why this became a Roberta Flack song. I'm getting so many chills thinking about it. And there's another chord cycle happening, which is more of a journey to me because the chorus is a 12 chord cycle. We go through 12 chords. They're not all different. But from one bar to the next, it is a new chord. So I'll play the chords for you now in the chorus

and listen for how these chords change and kind of emotionally where it takes you. I'll bring in some drums. A little bass. Wow. That's like a little Billy Preston Beatles thing at the end there. It almost sounds like the end of an episode of Taxi.

Yeah. Right because of the Rhodes. Bob James. It's the Roads. It's the Roads of it all. Oh, that's outstanding. I mean, like, again, if she never sang a note,

you'd just be like, wow, that Rhodes player was killing it. Well, I mean, listen, I got to give the tip of the hat to Charles Fox musically for coming up with those chord changes that we just kind of walk through, which enables a storytelling

you know, lyrical, melodic storytelling journey for the vocalist to kind of wind and wind through all of these chords that are going different directions emotionally. And Charles, I said it sounded like the end of a TV show kind of makes sense because Charles Fox wrote a lot for TV. That's absolutely true. I hadn't even thought about that.

So it makes a lot of sense. We said earlier that the Laurie Lieberman version was very guitar driven. What are the guitars doing this? You know, what's cool about this is that there is an acoustic guitar, but it's extraordinarily different. And one of my favorite discoveries is the Eric Gale part. Eric Gale playing guitar. This is an acoustic. He's kind of got a flamenco basanova style going on.

It's those chords throughout the entirety of the song. It's very consistent. Let's play this verse first. What he brings to it is really special and let's just listen and then we can talk about what it is. It's tall and tan and dark and lovely. So add that kind of basa flamenco feeling acoustic with the one-drop drums and then Roberta's Rhodes bring in some church. You've got a lot of things in the mix there. It sounds very light. It sounds very airy. It sounds almost like, you know, that Coca-Cola commercial where they're all singing on the side of the mountain. It feels like that. It's got a 60s feel. You were talking earlier about the 60s into 70s moment. And it would make sense in 1972 that things would sound like that, but it does feel

very light. You know, if you did a, if you did a song with the word killing in the title, differently, it could be very dark. I feel like they went like in a sort of like, no, this is a, there's a beautiful moment that I'm sharing with the performer. Yeah. No, I think a lot of the lightness comes from, it is lighter guitar strings that he's finger-picking. And again, the Basanova style, the sort of earlier 60s jazz, you know, phenomenon, would still be kind of, would be a little bit out by now,

like it wouldn't be in style anymore. Yeah. But having that choice in combination with those other elements, with that one-drop reggae drumbeat. Yeah. And then Ron Carter playing bass with those creative choices we just talked about. And Roberta Flack playing Rhodes, it's incredibly interesting how these different layers,

they're all doing kind of stylistically different things that merge in this unique way. And there's also a grain you can hear in the recording that wouldn't be there if it was recorded today. This song, like some of the other songs we've done, but not a lot, really feels like a time machine. It feels like you can like, you know, close your eyes, listen to it, hopefully in stereo,

and really sort of get into a time machine and imagine what it would have looked like and even smelled like in 1972, like, you know, like it's just, it's the good and the bad. Yeah. You really feel like you could see what a day in 1972 would look like. New York in 1972 definitely had an odor, I would say. I knew this is going to go there.

But I, sometimes I'll go visit a restaurant or a bar that I know hasn't really been renovated, you know, in about 30 or 40 years just and pretend like I'm there in that year. And it's a hard thing to accomplish. And I think this song has that. It has that time capsule appeal. I am so happy now that we get to spend some time with just, Roberta's vocals because this song just, it means something.

It feels like it's about something, you know, but you can't say about every song. Can I just admit that there were many times in my life where I thought she sang strumming my face with his fingers? Like, did anybody else ever think that? For sure, the lyric is strowing my pain. But I hear the word face somewhere is in the song. But I thought face was somewhere in the song, and I was actually disappointed to learn

she never sings the word face anywhere in the song. So I literally was just wrong. But I know I wasn't the only one out there. I think one song is one of those places where we can be vulnerable and say we didn't know or we were wrong and it's okay. But can you play us a little bit? We've heard a little bit of the chorus because we started there. Can we play verse two? Because I think verse two, just from a songwriting point of view, is so wonderful.

And I want to hear Roberta's isolated vocals there. I felt all flushed with fever, embarrassed by the crowd. I felt he found my letters. It's so personal. Can we talk about the lyrics? I felt all flush with fever. Yeah. Embarrassed by the crowd. Like this is not your traditional love song by any stretch. But also help me help me find this because it was Lori Lieberman. Right. So she's talking about Don McLean's song. Yes. So that's the hymn in that line. And then Norman Gimble comes in and reads her diary and combines that with her story. So he's actually written these lines, which now Roberta Flack is singing, and I'm already lost.

Like, clearly, Roberta Flack is able to emote and it's very direct. I'm not needing the backstory to feel something from this. But when you think about the literal lines that she just read about... You're talking about it. I felt he found my letters and read each one aloud, which is a little bit... Literally what happened. Lori gave him her diary. You know, let's talk about it because this is a point in the song where...

you know, Lori is speaking, obviously, from, you know, firsthand experience. But I love the idea that Roberta hears these lyrics. And she's put her artistry on these words that were written about, technically about somebody else's experience. But now she's seeing her own life through this lens. And she wouldn't have known that backstory. No, and she didn't matter. That's what's interesting.

It didn't matter. It didn't matter. I'm reminded of Bob Dylan talking about Jimmy Hendricks's version of all of the along the watchtower. He was like, yeah, you know, when I heard his version, it was like, that's, that's the pre-im, that's the version. That's the one. You know, sometimes we as songwriters or creators, you know,

we, we hand something off to an actor or a singer. Yeah. And they find things that we didn't even know we're there. And I think that's one of the loveliest things about that is that, you know, it was one person's experience, it was another person's music. And then this other person came along with her own experiences and her own music and just lifted it up to this point where, you know, it stayed in the culture ever since.

And then it goes on to be Lauren Hill, who has the same experience of connecting with the song. And last but not least in the chain, we as listeners, all the intertextuality, this is like a master's thesis in intertextuality, where the content of any lyric is fully dependent on who's listening, who's singing, all of it is very specific to the circumstance.

I personally, until I heard it isolated just now, I didn't realize the power and the pain of the lyric. I prayed that he would finish, but he just kept right on. Like, that's a level of embarrassment. Right. Vulnerability. We have all felt. Yes. Sometimes on the show.

How does he know me so well? Can we get to this very important part that I know our listeners want to hear? This is actually a part that was not in the Lori Lieberman version, the Charles Fox, the Norman Gimble version at all. And it's one of the most famous parts of the song. One could argue the most famous part of the song, if you're a fan, if you came into it, as I did via Lauren Hill. I want to hear the bridge.

I want to hear without any music on it. I'd love to hear the bridge of killing himself with this song. So what's interesting, Roberta Flack is adding a new melody here. So it's an invocables and not lyrics. Yeah. But she adds this iconic melody, which is now baked into the canonical version of the song. If you're ever going to cover this song, you're going to add this part in a big way. So let's listen.

I'm going to, it's a stacked vocal. We'll start with the lead and I'll start adding as we go. I mean, like that little. A little half step. That's like medieval sounding. It's like we went from gospel church to medieval church a little bit with that one. We went to Hamel's Messiah. I think that,

look, there's so much to unpack there. One is that I didn't realize also until just now how if somebody covers your song, sometimes their version can take over the version. That's right. There are parts where her part is different than the Lauren Hill version. and I thought the Lauren Hill version was about to happen and it doesn't. But it's just like everybody's just like building on top of something else in like just a beautiful way. That part is so epic and so wonderful.

This is a cover technically. She inserts a whole lot of music. I mean, like technically there's old and la la la, is that a lyric? I mean, like, how does that play into our whole thing about like you can't change the lyrics unless it's, you know? It's, it's the short answer is we all hear. differences between this version and Lori Lieberman's version. Big versions. Big changes. The way copyright law works. And there's a long history, which we can't forget, includes the invention of the compulsory mechanical to enable white performers to take songs that black performers had come out with and do better

in the marketplace without having to compensate them. Right. So there's a long history that I've just simplified into two sentences there. But that's part of why copyright law says, hey, once the lyrics and melody are the same, It's my song and you give me all of the publishing. That's it. That's how it works. For better or for worse. I mean, for worse, a little bit. Because I would agree with you that there are some pretty substantial differences in this version. They are so substantial.

And I think it's important to point out that Lori, who is a big fan of the Roberta Flack cover. Oh, yeah. She loves this version. Yeah. Lori is quoted as saying, look, the bridge, it opened up the song and exposed this new sound that hadn't been there before. Roberta created it. She wrote that. Today, if a singer-songwriter writes a word, a note, they ask for credit. I know why I didn't. But why didn't she ask for credit? The management said she didn't want to make waves. And it's so interesting to me that here was this brilliant superstar, but still as a woman in the business, she also didn't want to rock the boat. Isn't that so telling of the 1970s music business that she adds all this to their song and still didn't ask for a credit? I'll be honest with you. Not much. has changed in terms of the power dynamics of an artist versus the industry. If you think you're owed something, it's still hard to get paid on it sometimes. So Roberta Flack, I mean, such a wonderful

artist, such an amazing catalog. You know, sometimes I hate the fact that we call this show one song. Because I'd love to do a whole episode about Feel Like Making Love. I'd love to do an episode on The Closer I Get to You with Donnie Hathaway. One of my favorite songs from Roberta Flack is this one. It's Back Together Again with Donnie Hathaway. It's one of the songs that I truly love. love to mix into my DJ sets. Such an amazing career. Such an amazing song. What do you think is the legacy of killing me softly with his song? I mean, it's perfectly put because it's really kind of two different questions.

The song and the singer, Roberta Flax's legacy is preserved by all of the songs you just named. And everything we've been talking about on the episode, her incredible talent as a vocalist, not to mention vocal arranger and performer and Rhodes player. And all of it is just like when you're listening to this song and the level of detail we've been listening. You just, you can't help but feel her talent. Yes. And her storytelling of somebody else's story about somebody else's song, right? I mean, that's the ultimate test that it still shines. Her art will long outlive her and we will miss her. The fact that she's conveying in her

vocal performance of this song, it resonates directly without knowing any backstory. It resonates to the listener because she's an incredible performer, an incredible singer. But the song is going to live on forever. There's a Luther Vandros version, which is outstanding. It's one of my sister's favorite song. And I think there was this rap group called the Fugges that might have done a cover of it. I think it's pronounced Fug, Fug. No, but seriously, at the very top, we talked about the Fugges version. And I want to circle back to that here because their version is essential to the legacy of this song. I mean, like, it introduced the song to a whole new generation of folks.

Let's hear a little bit of this little ditty for the 90s is killing me softly, the Fugees version. With Miss Lauren Hill. Now, I mean, like, that song, like, it's still like, You should have seen, like, we were all, like, dancing in our seats here in the studio. And I know some people were horrified when they heard this version. I mean, like, they were like, oh, how could they ruin such a great song? I mean, like, I was the perfect age. I was in the perfect demographic to love this version.

And to be angry at those people who were angry at it. Yeah. Now, can I just say, as a Fuji's fan, I was surprised to learn that it was actually Praz's idea to cover this. For whatever reason, I assumed that this was some more of that Wyclef, John, Genius. I know what's going to be hot. And I'm going to, no, it was Praz's idea. This is actually one of the very last thoughts to be recorded for the score, that monster of an album from the Fugis. And when they went to Fox and Gimble, our favorites, and they wanted to record it in a very sort of like 90s hip-hop style with like an anti-drugs message.

They told them no. They were like, you can't touch one lyric. Well, exactly because they wanted to tweak some of the lyrics. Yeah, they wanted to tweet some of the lyrics. Enhancements changes, which they can turn down as we've been, as I was mentioning before. once you leave the realm of the like canonical composition and start changing lyrics, you do have to get permission because then technically it becomes an interpolation. That's crazy to me.

It's crazy. Here's what I didn't know. I was DJing at college when this song was a hit. And I admit like, you know, at first I loved killing me softly. The video was amazing. That video, uh, classic, classic video, which we could probably show a clip of was freaking historic. But then you have the.

DJs like me and after a while like a song can get played out and in my case I did not know that the remix featuring Bounty Killer is apparently rare. It was apparently only available as a advanced promo you know vinyl disc to us DJs. I did not know that

because if you asked me like oh what was your favorite version of it I would have instantly set the remakes. Oh you just assumed that was like out there was out there everywhere. The remix is so good. It was a bootleg. It was like a white label. Well technically it's not even a white Because a white label, like anybody can press that. This was officially pressed by their record label, but you couldn't buy it. It wasn't for retail.

Does that make sense? Like it was just for- DJs-only. It was just for promo DJs only. And it featured Bounty Killer. I love it. The lyrics are completely different. And that's, you know, only because they were denied permission to change the lyrics.

But I want to play a little bit for you now because let me tell y'all, if y'all was up in a dance hall in the mid-90s and you heard this, everybody was going crazy. And of Femphetown, God bless the kids in the pen out. P now, pee now, pee now. And of course, there's something fun about this version because there's this interesting embedded sample situation. Yeah. When the Fugis went to cover the song, they used a sample from our good friends, Tribe Called Quest.

This song, Benita Applebaum from 1990. What they used from it, interestingly, is just that break moment, which is actually two samples in one. It's the beat and a little sitar, right? And by the way, that is underlying the song. The song starts with just that beat and the vocals, right? So it's pretty crucial to the song.

But what interesting thing about it is that we mentioned this concept a couple episodes ago of sample phantoms, right? So that beat comes from Little Feets Full Yourself from 1973. And again, you're just hearing a break. It's just a drum break. So that's just Richie Hayward, the drummer from Little Feet, who isn't in the songwriting credits. He doesn't get any credits for that song. So he didn't get paid for that song publishing credits. He didn't get paid for its use in a tribe called Quest using it.

And he doesn't get paid out of that. It's that Lou Reed situation. It's that Lou Reed thing. It's the sample phantom where the person whose name I'm naming for you now, Richie Hayward, most people don't know. But that's whose drums you're hearing in all of these songs. And secondly, the sitar, I don't even have the name of the person. I went down a pretty big rabbit hole.

It's rotary connection. That's the name of the group. The song is Memory Band from 1968. But I'm not sure who's playing the sitar on that. It might be body fins. But that sitar is such a standout moment. and it's all over the place. It's hip-hop history. I think it was interesting is that you have a song that went from the experience of

Lori Lieberman through Fox and Gimble to Roberta Flack into the years of Lauren Hill and the Fugis, but they're sampling. Right. They're sampling Tribe Called Quest, which got their sit-ars from rotary connection. Which are happening simultaneously. Multiple song paths that lead to this international hit. I love that. I hadn't even made. I love that connection.

We have so much fun drawing connection sometimes. it's crazy. So at the end of the day, is killing me softly one person's success story or 18 people's success story? There's so many different musical ideas and entities that went into the

Fuji's version that we were exposed to that it really does feel like just a special song that was meant to be. Okay, luxury, it's time for one more song. This is the segment where we share a deep cut or a hidden gym with you, the One Song Nation, and with each other. My man, Luxury,

go first. I shazam this one. I was in the cafe the other day, and they were playing like a great shoegaze mix, and I knew the My Bloody Valentine, I knew the lush, I knew the ride, I knew the slow die, but I didn't know this, want to be tied by Salon Music, a Japanese shoegaze band from the mid-90s, and I love this song. So I love that. It's got all the shoegays wash of big wall of guitar, Kevin Shields like, you know, wash of guitar sound,

and then that sort of high, floaty, female ethereal voice on top of it all. I love it. That was really cool. What about you, D'all? Do you have one more song for us? I do. This is an artist that I just recently discovered. It's Amber Mark and here's her song, Won't Cry. Yeah, I just love to hear electronic dance music made by Women of Color. And Amber Mark is no exception. That is off of her album, Lucy's.

That's got all the stuff I love in it. I love that. Thanks for to do. It's so dope, right? Just discovering her, hopefully a lot more to come from Amber Mark. Marotory Sins and dance beats And then that distinctive voice 100% loved it As always, if you have an idea for one more song You can find us on Instagram and TikTok

You can find me on Instagram at Diallo, DIA, L-L-L-O And on TikTok at Diallo Riddell. And you can find me on Instagram at L-U-X-U-X-Y And on TikTok at LuxuryX. And now one song officially has its own Instagram and TikTok That's all grown up. Go follow at One Song podcast for exclusive content And all the music debates you love.

You can also watch full episodes of One Song on YouTube right now. Just search for One Song podcast. We'd love it if you like and subscribe. And if you've made it this far, we think that means you like this podcast. So please don't forget to give us five stars, leave a review. And share it with someone you think would like it. It really helps keep the show going. All right, luxury help us in this thing.

I'm producer, DJ, and songwriter and musicologist luxury. And I'm actor, writer, director, and sometimes DJ Diallo Riddle. And this is one song. We'll see you next time. This episode is produced by Melissa Dwaynez. Our video editor is Casey Simonson. Our associate producer is Jeremy Bimbo. Mixing and Engineering by Eric Hicks.

Production supervision by Razak Boykin. The show is executive produced by Kevin Hart, Mike Stein, Brian Smiley, Eric Eddings, Eric Weil, and Leslie Guam.