Open Book with Anthony Scaramucci - Failure is Success with Vernon Turner

Episode Date: September 4, 2024

This week, Anthony is joined by Vernon Turner, a former NFL star and author to discuss his inspiring journey of overcoming adversity and finding purpose in his book 'Beyond the Limits'.  Vernon discusses his challenging upbringing, including being raised by his grandmother and dealing with his mother's drug addiction, emphasising the importance of resilience, family, and never giving up. He also touches on the power of forgiveness, the impact of social media, and the need for empathy in today's society. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Conditions apply. Hello, I'm Anthony Scaramucci and this is Open Book where I talk with some of the brightest minds out there about everything surrounding the written word from authors and historians to figures and entertainment, neuroscientists, political activists, and of course, Wall Street. Sorry, I can't resist. Before we get into today's episode, if you haven't already, please hit follow or subscribe, wherever you get your podcast, and leave us a review. We all love a review, even the bad ones. I want to hear the parts you're enjoying or how we can do better. You know, I can roll with the punches, so let me

know. Anyways, let's get to it. It's impossible to listen to my guest today, Vernon Turner, and not be inspired. He's overcome unthinkable adversities, pushed himself beyond the limits, and achieved incredible success. He's now on a mission to use his time and influence to help change and save as many lives as he can. I admire and respect Vernon a great deal and know you will too after listening to this interview. Let's get to it. I'd like to take a second to recommend my friend Andy Ostroy's great podcast in the back room. Every episode is a fun, incredibly honest take on our society and the political situation, along with some brilliant guests. I've been honored to join Andy on the show, and you know anywhere that accepts me with

no filter deserves a shout out. So joining us now on Open Book, and this is someone I was really looking forward to interviewing, is Vernon Turner. He's a former professional football player, and now an author with a mission to change lives. And he's written a fascinating book. The title of the book is Beyond the Limits, Finding My Purpose. Vernon, I read this book very quickly. And I saw myself in the book. I saw my kids in the book.

I see America in this book, by the way, because this is such an aspirational book. Before we get into the book, who is, for my viewers and listeners, viewers and listeners, who is Vernon Turner? Wow, that is such a broad, loaded question because Vernon Turner, I'm hoping I'm working towards being someone that has acknowledged everything that came upon him, that learned from everything that he's gone through. And I want to leave a legacy that, you know, people can say, you know what, that's a pretty good guy. He's a good dude. And I got through. kids. I've got three amazing kids, Ashley, Daris, and Liam, and they're my world. And I'm

honest with you, if it weren't for them. I don't know if I would even be here today. I just want to be remembered as someone who gave it everything he had and everything that he did. All right, but it was a rough start for Vernon Turner, right? I mean, you write about it. You know, you're basically raising yourself. What am I getting wrong about Vernon Turner? You're shooting in the dark about your life. You're incredibly talented athlete. You're also an autodidact. You're teaching yourself what to do. So you're literally mentoring yourself, your self-parenting. It comes with its highs and lows, right? Because you've got to exaggerate yourself confidence to boost yourself up. And then there's also moments of despair. And you you write very beautifully about how you react to all these things in life. But you're here. I mean,

one of the things about your book that you graced me with your book because of its authenticity. When I read the book, I was like, all right, this is a real dude. This is a guy that's bleeding. You were bleeding on some of those pages. And so how does somebody that is bleeding? What is the self-talk? What is the thought process to get them to pull themselves together and to live the best version of themselves? You know, I have to circle back to almost to the beginning.

Had I not lived this life, Mooch, I wouldn't believe it. I wouldn't believe it if I didn't live it myself. You know, you're talking about, you're looking at a person that, you know, who was born and raised in Bephystuyves in Brooklyn, started off with myself and my little brother living in my grandmother's house with a crap load of cousins. My grandmother was the grandpooba of grandmoms, man. She was like, she had 10 kids and raised them herself. I mean, she was a badass. She really was. And I think I got my strength from her because I really saw my mom at that time, six and a half, seven years old.

You know, she was always out. And that's another amazing woman that it breaks my heart to even just think about all the things that she went through. But I have so much more love and respect for her now than ever before. But going what she went through back then, it was funny because she would go out and she would leave for a few days and come back and she would greet. I would run to the door and she would bypass me and go to my younger brother. And it got to a point to where it was like I used to hide when she would come home. So I wouldn't experience that. So it all started there as far as that self-reflection.

And as years went on, when I found out, you know, how I came into this world, it just made it even much worse. I felt like trash. You know, my mom was assaulted when she was 18 years old by three guys. And I'm the result of that. And she told me that. Her, she told me what happened to her. And prior to that, I thought my mom. really just didn't care for me or she something was up. I just didn't, I knew something was way off.

But when she told me that, the first thing that came to my mind was, man, I'm garbage. God, dang it, I'm garbage. And I wouldn't now even look at myself in the mirror, mooch. I couldn't look at myself in the mirror. And for years, that was me. I was, I was braiding hair, cooking dinners, changing diapers at age nine, because my mom was still wigged off on the drugs. Now, this story, I'm skipping around, but this story is, it's a head scratcher because my mom was not only doing drugs, she was out there prostituting out in the streets. That's why she was out all those nights doing what she was doing. And she meets this guy, this Italian white dude from Staten Island, New York, man. And this cat fell in love with my mom. I mean, I wouldn't believe it if I didn't

live this damn thing, man. He falls in love with this. lady, a prostitute of a different race with two kids, moves her into his home in Staten Island, which that's a completely different story and with her two kids. And me, prior to us leaving, I was in my head, I was told that, hey, you know, this is not good. You know, you're going into an all-white neighborhood. They're going to try to, if they can kill you and get away with it, they would. I mean, because back then in the 70s, it was pretty bad, man, the race, you know, the racial attention. So in my head, I thought this cat was bad. I thought he was a bad guy. And Moj, I was so wrong about that guy. That is my hero. That is a guy that had unconditional love. I had to

write a segment in the book about this dude that he just unconditionally loved this woman. And he did everything he could to help her. You know, and from there, I just, again, I was wondering, like, why did my mom keep me? Because she had an opportunity to lead me and my brother with my grandmother. She had a chance. She said, no, they're coming with me. They're coming with me. And it took me decades, decades to figure out this whole dynamic of my family and what my mom went through and what my dad went through and my mental psyche because there were times and I don't skip around age 15. My mom passes away because I wished her dead. I thought I murdered my mother, man. No, you're right about it. I mean, you're right about your self-responsibility, which thankfully

you mentally adjusted to disclaim, thankfully. You know, I got to say this to you because, you know, you and I are born on the same day. Did you know that? You're born on the 6th of January. I was going to mention that. Right? 19. I was going to mention that. Yes. And so, so you're my birthday brother, okay? And I was having a great time on my birthday until Trump stole my birthday. Okay, he also stole your birthday, right? Because he's, yeah, insurrects the capital on the 6th of January, which is your and my birthday. And when I think about my life, okay, and I think about the tribulations that I've had in my life or whatever the difficulties that I've had, what's gotten me through is forgiveness. Particularly, someday you and I are going to have a beer, and I'll tell you about the way I grew up.

And I'll tell you about some of the trials and tribulations. And I'll tell you about some of the drug addiction in my family and some of the issues that my parents had, etc. And, you know, I so identify with you because you pulled yourself out of the soup, you know. But you did get this help, right? And we don't, sometimes we have to acknowledge this stuff, right? We get so much help from so many different people in life. And you write beautifully about the help that you got. But I, I want to say this to you and I want you to respond to it. Okay. Jackie Robinson, who's one of my heroes, if you go into my office, you'll see I've got a picture of Jackie and I've got a picture of Muhammad Ali, two of my heroes in my office. And why are they my heroes? Because they didn't give a shit. You understand what I mean? They did not give a shit. They were like, okay, I'm going to do this. And what did Jackie say that your life really doesn't have that much meaning until you're in the process of serving others. It's one of the best lines ever. And I tell people, if you're depressed or you're unhappy, go help somebody, okay, lift a kid out of poverty or go, go, you know, to a soup

kitchen or find a family member that's not doing well and see if you can help them out. Respond to that. Am I right about that? No, you're absolutely right because the whole purpose of me writing that second book, Beyond a Limits finding my purpose because for so long, I didn't, I didn't have a purpose here in my heart. I didn't have a purpose. It came close so many times, Mooch, that I would take myself out, you know, by prescription because I did not see that purpose. Why in the hell did the big guy keep me on this damn earth? Why did my mom make the decision to keep me? You know, why did, I mean, all of these things, you know, it's funny. I got to, I got to pivot a little bit because of something I just said just now, just this second. I have

countless, countless inbox messages asking me all sorts of questions about my journey after the National Football League released that documentary on me. And one of the questions that they asked was chilling to me. And it was such an easy answer for me. And that was, oh, so I have to ask you, Mr. Turner, are you, you're pro life, right? You're pro life. And I just, I stared at it, the question. And I had to reply. And my reply was, no, I am pro choice. I am pro choice. And I replied and they replied almost immediately. And I didn't, I didn't elaborate. How could you say that by the way you came into this world? I said precisely. I said, imagine. I said, let me let you know what I, my thought process. Imagine if my mom, she was brutally raped by three scumbags. Imagine if she was forced to keep me and she didn't want me. She was forced to keep me. Okay. Now, how do you think I would have turned out? She was forced. to keep me. Even if I was a board, I mean, even if I was put up for adoption, what are the chances of me going into a good family or going into a family that was solid? I said, so my thing is,

is that my mom was strong enough to make that decision on her own, on her own to keep me. And that was one of the things that I thought about that made me, I think all the time, man, especially now more than ever, you know, and my purpose I found out is that I had this story, this unbelievable story, this unbelievable journey of mine, that I'm finally getting the courage to share. I am so vulnerable. I am so weak sometimes. But it's not about me. It's never been about me. It's about why I'm on this earth. And this is to share and help share my story with as many people as I can and to help as many people as I can. I self-published my book. I did that for a couple of reasons. But mainly because I had I had to make sure that my family was okay with what I'm putting out there because there's a lot of stuff that my family were not aware of

that I wrote in that book. And I made five copies on both books. And I sent it to my family. And if they weren't okay with what was in that book, I wasn't going to publish. So I had that, I needed that control. And number two, it wasn't about, it was not about the monetary gain of it for me. I could have sold my rights. I could have done it all. I could have done all of that stuff. but I needed that control. That was the main source of me doing the way I did it. Beyond the limits finding my purpose, Mooch, I had to push beyond what I thought my limits were to find my purpose, if that makes any sense to you. It's like, I had no business plan in the National Football League. I was not that good of a football player. I wasn't. It was the circumstances

that were placed before me that if I did not pull that off, Mooch, my family were going, my brothers and sisters were going to foster care. So anyone who came up against me, if they weren't willing and ready to die on the field, it was a rap, dude. I had them because I was ready to die. And I didn't tell this to anybody. I didn't tell us to anybody.

No, I've watched films of you, okay, and I get the intensity. I get the killer instincts that you have. I have to ask you this question, okay? I don't mind. Why'd you seek me out? This is one of the beauties of social media. We also talk about the harangue of social media and the negativity.

We're going to get into negativity. We're going to get into negativity. You reached out to me in social media. I'm going to tell you, I actually knew who you were, okay, because of the documentary and some other things. And so I responded very quickly. And then you sent me a copy of a book, and then I read the book. I'm like, I told my producer, we've got to get you on the show. But why?

Why did you reach out to me? Well, Mooch, you know, my circle is extremely. extremely small because I can't do BS. I'm pretty, my tact is, is challenging. I'm a straight shooter. I'm a believe of common sense. I'm not a Republican. I'm not a Democrat. I'm a common sense cat. Anyone that represents us, they need to make common sense. They need to be have morals. They need to have values, empathy, compassion, understanding, trust, integrity. You got to have those components. And there's some of the things that's going on in this, in this country today, you know where I'm going. So I saw you, it was when you were attached to 45 and you, you did an

interview. And you were a condescending, arrogant bastard as far as I was concerned. And I did not like you at all. So some time goes on and you detached. And I don't know what day it was. but you were on CNN and you did an interview and dude I'm telling you your your transparency your ownership your authenticity in regards to you being real on what you was saying I sat there and watched that whole damn thing from start to finish man I'm like I said all right dude you got me you got me so I immediately went on I went on Twitter and I sent your message and I kind of I think I told you like I didn't like you and um but I told me that yeah I I usually enjoy the people that dislike me the most, actually,

because I learn from the people that dislike me the most. No, no, no. Hey, listen, you know, I grew up in an Italian family. There were racist in my family. I'm not going to bullshit you, okay, because there's racism in our society. You know, we're roughly the same age. You know, I got lucky. Why did I get lucky?

Because there was a housing project in the area I grew up in, and there were a lot of African-American kids that I grew up with. And so it was very natural for me. I didn't really see their color. I'm not saying that everybody in my family was like that. Okay, there were racist in my family. Who's going to bullshit you? Okay.

And my uncle who ran a motorcycle shop, his partner was an African-American Vietnam veteran who I adored. Okay, I love the guy. And so for me, I'm a product of my environment, right? So when I left law school, I joined the national mentoring program and I took a black kid from the Bronx who basically couldn't read. He was 13 years old. Okay, he wanted to choke the people in the public school system in New York. I got him some tutors. I got him some money. I paid for his education to go to a private Catholic school, taught him how to read, kicked his ass. He said, it was one day, you'll love this story. I'm in my Honda Civic because I had no money, but I'm paying for this kid's tuition, and he's

great suck, and I'm ready to choke him. And then there's a guy coming over to the, we're on Fordham Road in a Bronx, okay? You know, I'm, you know, I'm Italian. You know, I'm a Italian. You know, I don't give a shit, right? I'm on Fordham Road in Bronx, and the guy's coming over to squeegee, my thing, I got out of the car. I took the seatbelt off, got out of the car, he said, get the fuck away from my car. Okay, and I said, you get the fuck at it. Then I looked at Errol. I said, if I ever see you do something like that, I'm going to choke you. Okay, you're going to get yourself a real job, and you're going to fortify yourself with self-esteem and a real experience. So Mr. Errol is now 44, okay, and he's living in Hudson Yards, and he runs like all the security

for these buildings down there. He's got three beautiful kids, okay? And he's one of my bros. You know, he's one of my people. You understand what I'm saying? And so when I got the message from you, and you were starting some shit with me, which, of course, I enjoy,

and then I'm reading, and I said, I've got to read this guy's book, okay? You know, and that's where it's at. Yeah, yeah. Okay, that's where it's at. Okay, that's where it's at. So you could see me as a cracker, okay, or as an arrogant prick, okay,

because of the impression, but it may not be that. You follow me? And I think that's everybody in America right now. Okay. Let's dial it down. Let's meet each other where we live. And let's get to know each other better. And guess what we're going to find out? We have way less differences than impressed upon in social media or impressed upon in the networks. Do I have that right, Vernon? Or what am I? You know, you're right. And the thing for this is that I owed you that reach out because of how I felt inside. I owed you that because I felt one way about you. And then seeing a different side. of you and seeing a new, just this latest new side, it completely, I did a 180. Yeah, but I got it wrong. You know, Trump, Trump, look, people be pissed me. I don't give you, he's a, he's a racist man. I'm just letting you know, you could like Trump or dislike Trump, just like he is. I'm trying to, I'm trying to be nice on this thing when it comes to number 45. I really am, and I'm going to continue to do that. I know where I am and where I stand as far as

that whole thing. But he's, Vernon, Bernie's a bad deal. I don't even know what he's. These black guys are voting for him. I'm like, all right, guys. You don't even understand. You don't even understand what the hell is going on. And I got it because he's a great manipulator. He's a great salesman. But he's not a healing guy. Okay. Healing people love people. Healing people bring people together. Young people don't try to divide and conquer. You understand what I'm saying? The country's imperfect, Vernon? The country's imperfect. But what did Lincoln say about the country? It's an imperfect union, but it's up to us to make it more perfect. It's up to us to make it better. What did King say?

We've got to judge ourselves by the character, not the skin color, right? There's no King without Jackie. There's no king without Jackie. And what did Branch Riggie say to Jackie? I need you to be strong. You go, you mean me to be strong? I mean to fight these racists on the field? He goes, no, I need you to be stronger than that.

To not fight the racists on the field. Absolutely. And that's one of the movies that I have on my DVR that I watch all the time. I tried to produce that movie. I bought the rights to opening day. He's one of my heroes. And I met with Rachel Robinson, okay, who's going to be 102 years old this year, this July. And she told me I was too white to make that movie.

And I was upset at the time. Okay. And that was maybe 10, 12 years ago. And so she said, I'm not going to make the movie with you too white. And I said, okay, I was upset at the time. And then I met with a couple of my buddies who were black. And we had the conversation. I said, you know, Rachel's probably right.

I probably am too white because I haven't been. I haven't been in the world from the prism of what Jackie actually saw and what Jackie had actually deal with. But anyway, I didn't produce the movie. The movie turned out phenomenal. And it was very, she loved it, which is more important than everything else. But that's where we're at, Vernon. You know, that's where we're at.

And that's why I wanted to bring you on. And I'm grateful for you for coming on. And I'm grateful there's an unconditionality of spirit in your personality. And you got to drive like I've never seen. You know, I mean, you know, like if I'm having a bad day, I got to think. about what would Vernon Turner do in terms of what's going on in my day, you know, because of some of the things you've experienced. Well, I tell you, Mooch, again, if I didn't live it, I wouldn't believe it myself,

the things that, you know, I went through. And here's the crazy part. And you had already mentioned it. You know, I couldn't do any of that stuff by myself. Just keeping it real. I had to have my Army of Angels. I had to have my Pop Warner League football coach Bill Thatcher. I had to have my high school football coach, Fred Oliveri.

I had to have my college football coach, Ken Sparks and Dennis Webb. And, you know, I had to have these cats. I had to have the Sam Weish of Tampa Bay Buccaneers and the George Stuarts and the Marvel Levy's. I mean, all in the heck, Frank Gans with Detroit Lions. I mean, I had to have these cats to be the person that I'm now and today in regards to never quitting. and having, moving, pushing beyond those limits that you think those limits are for you. And again, that was one of the reasons why that I got inspired to write the second book. The first book was my autobiography, the next level of game, I had to play.

I just had a whole lot of crap inside. I had to get out. I just had to get out that I never shared with anybody. And once I did that, then I had to take it up another notch. And I'm not, I don't consider myself a very astute individual. I'm a street guy, okay? I learned on the go. Pretty much everything that I've done, I've learned on a go. I learned how to enunciate most words on the go. I've just, again, I struggled. Yeah, I struggled reading when I was in school. I used to be embarrassed to read out loud in school. So I've come across a lot of barriers. And I have so many lessons to learn. That's the reason why I am sharing it the way I'm sharing it. And to be a part of your podcast, now you're circle, man. It means a lot to me, man, because I have the utmost respect for you, my brother.

I really do. And I think you're doing it. I agree with all the feeling is mutual. So we're at the point in the podcast where I call it the five famous words. Okay, we dug through your book. We have five words. And you're going to give me a word back, okay, or a sentence. I'm going to say something to you. First thing that comes to Vernon Turner's mind, I want you to give me.

Okay, you're ready? Yeah. I say the word family. What do you say? Strength. Okay, I say the word resilience. My mom. Okay. That's a great line.

When I hear the word resilience, I hear, you know, you get, you know, I don't know what it is. A conditioning. You got to be in it. I say the word extraordinary, which you represent. What does that mean to you? Extraordinary. You have to, okay. I'm going to tell you one of my quotes.

I am not afraid of failing. But I am absolutely terrified of not trying. Amen. I love that. Okay, I say the word relentless. What you got to do is watch you in the NFL. But what do you say? When I say relentless, what do you say?

No, regardless of the circumstances, I'm never going to quit, ever. No matter what, no matter the obstacles, I'm never going to quit. And I've been like that on my life. And that's the reason why I'm right. It's hard. It's hard. It's having a strong heart. All right.

words Vernon Turner. I say Vernon Turner. What do you say? A work in progress, a someone who owes big time. And I want to leave this world with empty pockets. I truly do. I've given a lot. I've gotten a lot of tools, a lot of opportunities, a lot of things given to me. And I want to give it back. And I want to have empty pockets when I meet, when I get my mom and my dad and my sis and my grandma up there, I want to have empty pockets. See, when I hear Vernon Turner, I think good soul. That's what I think. All right, so you got to promise me something. You have a new book coming out later this year. You got to come back on my podcast to discuss it. You're willing to do that?

Are you kidding me, man? I've got to fly back out home to New York to come and chop it up with you, man, face to face. Absolutely. You come in studio anytime you want my brother. I appreciate you so much and I appreciate you coming on. The title of this book is Beyond the Limits, Finding My Purpose. It's by a legendary guy, former professional football player, Vernon Turner. Thank you so much for joining us on Open Book today. Thanks a lot, Moch.

God bless you, my brother. I love you, bro. So what an inspiration, Vernon is. We can learn a great deal from his story and his take on life. Vernon's life is many things, but I'm going to tell you one thing that's really resonating for me. It's expectation management. He was born in a broken home in a very bad situation, and he took very low expectations about the people around him, so he wasn't overly disappointed.

And through incredible amounts of will and discipline, he built himself up from nothing. And when bad things were happening to him, rather than becoming a victim, he pushed forward and lived truly a wonderful aspirational American life. So for these reasons, please pick up his book. And thank you so much for listening to our interview. Ma. Hello? Ma, what are you doing, Ma?

You got a second for the podcast for two minutes? before you get distracted? Because you know you love coming on the podcast, right? Yes. I had an African-American football player on the show today. His name was Vernon Turner. Okay, he spoke about some incredibly real things, okay, including the fact that he came from a very broken family

and he had a very rough start with his mom. And he opted for the power of forgiveness, which released him from all the truth. trauma that he was living with. Do you believe in that, Ma? Absolutely. Okay. Tell me why. Why? Okay, because every family, let me say it then, every family has some level of trauma in it,

and you have to release the trauma by allowing yourself to forgive people that cause the trauma. Is that fair to say? Okay. I'm not, I know, Ma. I know. Ma, do you know what Italian Alzheimer's is, ma? You forget everything. Italian Alzheimer's? Yeah, you forget everything. everything but the grudges. You know, that's you. You know, you like the grudges in life. I know that. But I'm talking about in general, if something bad goes on for you, the recipe is to

forgive and move on, otherwise it hangs on you. You don't want things to hang on you like a millstone, right? Right. But I do forgive people that have hurt me. Okay, so two people that have hurt you the most, you've decided not to forgive. I've had an immigrant mother from a child and a child and remember it because when the world turns, you got to pay. Right. So when people have bad karma and they do bad things other people, they usually get it in the end. Is that what you're saying? Absolutely. And you like that, right? You like that. So you like seeing people get their demise then, right? Yeah. Yeah, that's like, I must have got that from you because I want to outlive all my

adversaries, Ma. I just think that would be really fun, you know. That's why I go to the gym. You know, I want to be, I want to outlive all the haters, you know? So, Ma, when someone has something traumatic that they're dealing with, though. What's your best advice for them? Go ahead, go. Yeah, they have something traumatic. It's hanging on them and you want them to release it. So what do you do?

They have to go to a therapist. That's good. And they will explain how to deal with it. You don't absorb things. Right. So you got to not overly internalize it, right? You've got to have an outlet to express it, right? All right.

It's good advice. I didn't express from the two people and I got leukemia because I I kept it in. All right. That could be one. In fact, my oncologist told me that. And my therapist told me to. Okay.

All right. But you're here now, though. Am I'm a perfect example of it? Okay. But are you getting the last laugh now, Ma? Or no, tell the truth. Sure. I mean, once in a nursing home screaming her head off and the other one had his toes amputated.

Okay. All right. I mean, there's nothing like being Italian, right? I'm out to demonstrate the retribution side of the whole culture. Okay. All right. Thanks, Mom. All right, I'll call you later.

Love you, ma. Will you call me later? Yes, I promise. I'll call you later. I love you very much, baby. All right, bye. I am Anthony Scaramucci, and that was open book. Thank you for listening.

If you like what you hear, tell your friends, and make sure you hit follow or subscribe wherever you listen to your podcast. While you're there, please leave us a rating or review. If you want to connect with me or chat more about the discussions, it's at Scaramucci on Twitter or Instagram. I'd love to hear from you. I'll see you back here next week.