Open Book with Anthony Scaramucci - Melissa DeRosa Leaves Nothing Unsaid

Episode Date: October 25, 2023

In this episode, Anthony talks with Melissa DeRosa, former right-hand to Governor Andrew Cuomo and one of the most powerful women in New York State government history.  From her journey as a young woman in politics to the deadliest pandemic in history and setting the record straight on the final Cuomo years, Melissa leaves no stone unturned in her brand-new book “What’s Left Unsaid.” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. Hello, I'm Anthony Scaramucci, and this is Open book where I talk with some of the brightest minds out there about everything surrounding the written word from authors and historians to figures and entertainment, neuroscientists, political activists, and of course, Wall Street. Sorry, I can't resist. Before we get into today's episode, if you haven't already, please hit follow or subscribe, wherever you get your podcast, and leave us a review. We all love a review, even the bad ones. I want to hear the parts you're

enjoying or how we can do better. You know, I can roll with the punch. So let me know. Anyways, let's get to it. Most New Yorkers will know the name Melissa DeRosa bright hand to Governor Andrew Cuomo. Melissa's brand new book has been the talk of the town this week as she reveals her side of the story and the final days of the Cuomo administration, with punches at Joe Biden, Kathy Hockel, Lettisha James, and more. As the title tells us, Melissa has nothing left on set here. Let's get to the conversation. Well, joining us now on Open Book, a personal friend, Melissa DeRosa, who is so many different things, but she's soon to be a bestselling author.

Let me just hold up the book. What's left on said. It's a great picture, too, by the way. My life at the center of power politics and crisis. And of course, Melissa is a former communications director who happened to last longer than 11 days in her job. She was the chief of staff and secretary to Governor Andrew Cuomo. And by the way, I mean, the book.

book is phenomenal and my producer and I were talking about how great the book was because it's so real. And I want to start with Dina Deroza because I think it's important part of the story because I think you're dedicating the book to your Nona. And I had a Nona. You had a Nona. And your your grandma, Dina Deroza, obviously left a big impact on you. And the reason I'm starting there is because when I read the book, you're trying to do what's right. And I think you must have gotten that from somebody and I think it's from her, or at least she's part of the mosaic of people that taught you right from wrong. So let's start there. Yeah, I mean, look, it's, it's funny. People have a lot of misperceptions about who I am, where I come from, you know, a lot of people write me off as a

nepo baby, somebody who was born with money and influence and all of these things. And the reality is it couldn't be further from the truth. I was a kid that was born in Rochester, New York. My parents didn't have two nickels to rub together. They had three kids under three by the time they were 23 years old. I spent the formative years of my life under my grandparents' roof with my nun no and nun at. And they informed so much of who I am, who my siblings are, this unrelenting work ethic. If you work hard enough, then you can provide for your family. You can do some good in the world and live out what to them was the version of the American dream. They came to this country, you know, fleeing World War II at a time when Italy was overtaken, obviously, by Mussolini's army and the

Nazis. And so, you know, we came from relatively nothing but taught that if you worked hard enough and if you believed in something enough and you were willing to put the time in, then you could be anything. And it meant so much to my grandparents to be able to see within one generation, you know, their granddaughter become the highest ranking unelected official in the state of New York under Andrew Cuomo, who they also held in such high regard and had so much pride being Italian American. So, yeah, it was, it's a great American success story in that way. You know, you were, I mean, listen, I mean, the facts are the facts. You were the most powerful unelected person in New York State government. And I believe, and I think this book reflects that you handled it

with a tremendous amount of responsibility. And, you know, you love the public service. I'm hoping to God you'll return to public service based on reading the book. But I want to talk a little bit about your dad as well. Didn't your dad have a pretty big impact too, Melissa? Undoubtedly, I mean, he, you know, I write in the book about the fact that when I was a little girl, he was working on a congresswoman's campaign and he brought me alongside with him on the campaign trail, knocking at doors, walking in parades. And I, you know, fell in love with this world of public service. And what it meant that you could do to help people in a meaningful way, like my grandparents who didn't have a seat at the table. And he then went into the union movement and he cared so deeply about the union movement and what it

meant for fairness and for collective bargaining rights and making sure that the voiceless had someone at the table who were arguing for them effectively. And so I very much shadowed him my entire life. My love of government and politics stems directly from him. And you know, it's been a blessing and a curse. Doors opened, opportunities presented themselves, but for my entire life, I've never been able to sort of escape his shadow. And I've always struggled with, especially as a young woman, you know, trying to step out of that shadow and say, yes, I'm proud of everything my father has done. I've done a lot in my own right to. And I would like to be judged on my own competence and accomplishments and what I've done separate and apart from my father.

Probably don't have to state this, but I'm going to state it. You and Andrew, you and Governor Cuomo have that in common, right? You both had, moving figures in your lives, and therefore you were trying to fill those shoes in some ways out of respect, but you're also trying to carve out your own identity. And I feel that the success of the two of you caused a lot of consternation in the Democratic Party. So I want to set the scene, though, and have you talk a little bit about the crisis that's besetting the world. I'll take you back to January, February 2020. You and Governor Cuomo, others in the public health and safety area of the state of New York realize we're going to have a problem. You know, we have some dysfunctional

federal government situation going on and some lack of leadership there. There's a vacuum. You guys step into the vacuum, set the scene, why the press conferences, what did you expect to happen with these press conferences? And then I can tell you my opinion of what happened in the press conferences. I don't know a person in my life that doesn't say that when you and Governor Cuomo were on air, it wasn't comforting to them. And they didn't find some salvation and the idea that there were very smart people working on this problem. So set the scene, the decision to do these conferences, and then let's talk about what unfolded thereafter. So, you know, something else just quickly, and we're calling back to something you just said,

where the governor also had this situation where his father was these, you know, larger than life shoes to fill. And he and I would have conversations when press stories would be written about me And it would say, you know, Melissa Deroza, daughter of powerful lobbyist, becomes secretary to the governor. And I would turn to him and say, at what point is the press going to start defining me as me and not in the vein of my father? And he looked at me and he said, you know what? When I find that out, I'll let you know. Yeah, amen. Because the same still happens to me to this day.

And I'm a 60 year old man. So, yeah, there are lots of similarities between the two of us and how we were raised and in the shadow of these larger than life fathers. But when COVID hit, New York very quickly became the epicenter, not just of the country of the world. And what was very clear was that your former boss, President Trump, and the Trump administration, had absolutely no desire or wherewithal to lead in that crisis. And what we realized very quickly was that there was a palpable fear that was not just in New York, but around the country, around the world. People were yearning for information, looking for facts, looking for any level of

leadership. And the daily press conference wasn't something that we set out to do in a calculated fashion. They just sort of happened. We started doing them and through them, we understood the reaction to them and the importance that all of a sudden every day people had something that was reliable, something they could count on every day at 1130. We would go on television, give them the facts, tell them what we knew, tell them when they were things we didn't know, explain what we were trying to do to attack the problem. And then the second half of the press conference, were really the governors showing the side of him that he had never shown anyone, which was vulnerability. And he would talk about his own fears for his children, for his mother, how it was

impacting his own family in a very, his brother, his brother at COVID at one point, and how it was impacting him personally. And at the time, people compared them to FDR's fireside chats. And, you know, the role that Winston Churchill played at the pinnacle of World War II. And I think in that moment, that was what he was doing. He was the de facto commander and chief. And the whole world looked to us for information and for comfort. And when I look back on that time period, yes, we built field hospitals. Yes, we were in an international arms race for PPE. Yes, we created Surgeon Flex, one unified hospital system. We did all of these things. But when I think about what I'm most proud of, it was those press conferences

and stepping into that void and providing real information and real leadership at a moment when the country needed it most. Yeah, no, listen, it was, it was wonderful in so many different ways, but it also, unfortunately, in human life and in politics, there's a refraction, which you also write about. So it now costs you guys, because now you're being thrust into the global arena. The competence is being showed to everybody. And as a result of which the knives come out, even from people inside your own party, you learn that the Judas's and the Brutus's are in your midst. And so now they're coming at you. You explained it in the book, but let's explain it to my listeners and my viewers. Why are they coming at you at a time where you should be

being applauded by these people and they're in your own party? So why are they coming out you, Melissa? Tell my naive listeners and viewers, not the people that have had 50 hatchets in their back like you or me about the state of politics in the world and how it really operates. You know, I think that there was a little bit of Icarus to this, right? He flew so close to the sun. And there's nothing that the American press loves to do, then to build people up, then to tear them down. And we had gone through this sustained period where it was all positive, all affirming, everyone sort of recognizing the place in his, his place in history and the importance of what we were doing. And then it's almost like on a dime, it flipped. And you had the far right who viewed Cuomo as a thing. threat nationally, Trump certainly, but the far right in general viewed Cuomo as their greatest threat nationally as someone who could run and win and, you know, loom over the party for a long time. And they had Fox News and the New York Post and other right-wing publications sort of going after us, guns blazing. And then on the far left, which Cuomo has always been,

he views himself as a progressive, I think of him in this day and age. He was a left of center, you know, Democrat. He was not a communist. He was not a socialist. He was not a socialist. He was not someone out pushing extreme views. And as a result, the working families party, the DSA, the AOCs of the world, were always sort of waiting in the wings with the pitchforks wanting to go after him. And so then it was like, bam, you had this perfect confluence of events where someone comes out with one specious Me Too allegation on Twitter. He in the background goes and starts organizing a campaign of women. They come out, you know, one by one saying things like, he put his hand up my waist for a photograph. He kissed me on a cheek. He called me sweetheart. He called me,

heart. And because of the moment we were in of the hyper hysteria of the mainstream media, excuse me, combined with sort of this overreaction of the Me Too movement, it was like there was no differentiation between rape or assault or an off color comment or a kiss on the cheek. All of them were thrown into the same cauldron. And it was, you know, an executable offense. And so suddenly, everyone was just given a number, regardless of what the allegation was, regardless of what the infraction was. And that was it. And that was it. From that point forward, as I write in my book, we were basically on a slow death march to August 3rd when Tish James issued her report. So guilty and told proven innocent, of course. And every allegation, any micro allegation is treated

like a death sentence. And there's a judge jury and a trial in the open press. And so what we're both describing is cancel culture. And what was interesting, I just want to test this on you because I I had so many questions when I was reading your book, but one of my big questions is I don't see Governor Cuomo, and he's personal friends. Sometimes I'll slip and call him Andrew, which I apologize for because of the lack of formality. But Governor Cuomo did not represent to me a woke politician. He represented a person that was focused on doing policy. He wasn't necessarily left or right, but he was more about right or wrong. And I sort of feel that this threatened that whole value-based analysis that the left forces their political leaders through.

And so he became an instant target, meaning, God forbid, if Governor Cuomo would arise to the presidency and, you know, darken the woke movement or he could somehow lead us out of the wilderness of this woke, anti-woke nonsense that we're facing from a culture war perspective. And so they went super hard at him. Am I missing something? No, no. You're 100% correct. I mean, I actually write in the book that there was this group of Democratic Socialist legislators that were caught in a chat room where they were literally plotting in February of 2021 before the ball really gets rolling. And they say, how do we make it impossible for Andrew Cuomo to run again? And they say, and excuse my language, Alessandra Bianji says, we're going to need a motherfucking army.

And it was clear that this entire thing was calculated. it was a, it was a campaign, you know, and they couldn't have done it alone. The press was along for the ride. People weren't scrutinizing anything to scrutinize was to smear, to question, was to shame. And so we were all sort of stuck in this box. And Cuomo, who, you know, for his entire career, sort of rejected the wokeism. And, you know, I talk in the book about the history between the Cuomo family and the New York Times in particular and how the Times editorial board always had this sort of disdain for the Cuomo's because they were these elitist white wine drinking, as Mario Cuomo used to call them, you know, Manhattanites, who looked down on the Cuomo's from Queens, who, you know, were mechanics and who were, you know,

didn't go to the Ivy League institutions that they all went to. And so there was always this inherent tension between the Cuomo family and between the hard left, the liberal wing, you know, that then morphed into sort of this wokeism. So 100%. And when they saw their shot, they took it. A hundred percent, but in the meantime, they were straddling the line, right? Because they were being sick of fans to him in public, but behind his back, they were moving on. I mean, listen, Attorney General Letitia James, she said, and you write about it in the book, that a lot of the accusers were not credible. And yet, all of a sudden, when there was a little bit of blood in the water, the report comes about and they're, of course, credible. But then we learn after the fact

that they weren't credible, which is obviously what you and I have put up on social media. just the whole facts of the situation. And so I want to talk about something that the reason why I think, and I'm just going to say this, I think women who read your book are going to be like, okay, this is like a real woman. I want to have like a cup of coffee with her and ask her about her life. You write very vulnerably and very openly about your fertility struggles, about the problems that you had in your marriage. And so you took your guard down in this book, Melissa. So take us through that, take us through the decision to do that, which of course I admire because I always try to hit my weaknesses or whatever the potential weaknesses in life are. I try to address them head on.

You know, I had the issue with Trump, which obviously you and I have talked about. I had a situation with Sam Bankman-Fried. I try to talk about these things very openly, but I'm so impressed with you doing this. So give us why you did it and tell us what you're thinking was and where are you now on some of these issues. I decided that if I was going to write this book, I had to, to, I had to tell the whole story. If I was going to tell the story, I had to tell the whole story. And I think that in order for people to really understand the arc of those two years, especially through my eyes, because as much as this story is about Andrew Bummo, it is my story. To understand what had happened through my eyes, I think you had to understand, you know, where it started from. And when people always ask me,

you know, where does it begin? I was like, I, there's this conversation I had with my now ex-husband in January of 2020 where we were on the precipice of getting separated. And we have dinner the night before he's leaving for three months and we're not supposed to talk for three months and we're setting the ground rules of how are we going to deal with each other? And I say, so we're just not going to talk for three months. And he turns to me and he says, well, unless it's an emergency. And I said, well, how do you define an emergency? And he's like, I don't know, but we'll know it if it happens. And then it's a bam. COVID happens a month and a half later. And so I think that in order for readers to to get it. And I think you know this firsthand. The way that all of us are portrayed in the press,

those of us in public service, high ranking officials, elected officials, we're caricatures, right? We're either evil or we're good. We're right or we're wrong. There's no gray. And part of what I tried to get people to see in this book is that people are people. And we make mistakes. And when nobody's looking, we're falling apart. And when, you know, you're acting tough and like nothing's bothering you, you're actually suffocating inside because your marriage is falling apart or when you're out of the office for 30 minutes and no one knows where you are, it's because you're at a fertility specialist being told that you probably can't, you know, get pregnant. And all of these things inform the people that we are. And I think we do a great disservice to the public

when we try to present all of us as characters in the world absent that context. And so I felt like if I was going to do it, I had to really do it. You know, Andrew said to me, Governor Cuomo said to me once, he said, you know, there's no smart politicians. I said, well, what do you mean by that? He goes, well, just think about it. Negative campaigning and negative ads work so effectively that when you go into the general public, you say, are there any smart politicians and say no, because Andrew gets hit from the left, he gets hit from the right. You know, the right-leaning politicians are getting hit. You know, I mean, there's no smart politicians because we know that negative campaigning and tar and feathering works. You know, I was a Jersey Shore. or cast member when I was in the White House. I was, I was Tony Soprano on the, on the Potomac. I think that actually came from the financial times. Financial times, you know, I mean, I's like, okay. I mean, you know, and this is the sort of stuff you have to deal with. I'm cool with it because I'm a big boy. You don't go into public service and expect to be treated well. But I just love

that you were so open about this. I'm going to toggle back to some policy, though, because I think this was indicative of what was going on. In one of the chapters, you write. about the war between Andrew Cuomo and Governor de Blasio. Now, most New Yorkers don't realize how much power that the governor has over the city of New York. A lot of our state constitution authorizes and empowers the governor in terms of the budget, even police force, police personnel, things like that. You write, Governor Cuomo wants to put 500 new or deploy new police officers into the subway system. And Mayor de Blasio does not want to do this. He's being attacked by Mayor de Blasio and Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez.

So for normal people out there, please help us understand why the left doesn't want there to be quality of life and a feeling of safety in the streets of New York or on the subways. What are they trying to prove by allowing that sort of breakdown in the social contract? Well, and I get into this in the book because so much of it played out after the George Floyd murder, where you had this massive defund the police move. that was afoot, which in my view, couldn't be a more stupid, you know, ill-conceived movement. I don't know the likes of which this country has ever seen. But in December of 2019, there was sort of a precursor to that where we were starting to see a

spike in crime in the subways. And the governor wanted to put 500 additional cops on the subways. And AOC and DeBlasio and others came out and said, we should be using those resources in order to make sure that there are service repairs and that there are improvements to service. And our point was sort of like, no one cares if you're on time on the train if you're worried about getting shot on the train. And there's just this fundamental disagreement between the far left and I think the center and the rest of the world about public safety. And they think, and I do think that there's a nuanced approach, right? You need mental health professionals. Not everything is solved with

jail. A lot of things are solved with going into mental health facilities and health you need through social services, of course. But when there is a cop on a platform, people are less likely to commit a crime. That's just the reality. We've got cops on subway, like on individual cars. People feel safer. It sends a message that there's someone watching. And so throughout the book, I talk a lot about in the George Floyd situation in the aftermath of it, this tension between the defund the police movement and sort of the millennials and everybody else. And that was just one in a series of situations where you saw Andrew Cuomo and Bill de Blasio buttheads over the course of COVID and even more over the course of their tenure. Yeah, but it's just, it's just great stuff because it's so clear. I mean, I wish I, frankly,

I wish two things. I wish I had met you 10 years ago. You would have given me better advice. It probably would have lasted 12 days as opposed to 11. I wish I had read this book 10 years ago because it breaks down really what happens, you know, in the reality of the situation. Some of us, myself included, go into these positions somewhat naive. I mean, I'm embarrassed to admit that, but I think I was a little naive about the sandbox. I thought people that were wearing my jersey would play nicer in the sandbox, but in fact, they're kicking sand at you and trying to stay, I mean, I don't know, I felt like they would take your eyeball out with like an ice pick. They drop it in their martini glass, and they'd still talk to you, Melissa, while you were bleeding.

You know, like nothing happened, you know. I'm going to mention a couple of names to you, and I want you to have a reaction to them, okay? Governor Kathy Hockle. Governor Hockel, who I speak about in the book and who I've spoken about extensively since she became governor. You know, I think that she is well-intentioned. I just think that she is not equipped for the job. I, you know, you look around, and this isn't me and my words. I mean, we have a migrant crisis going on in New York City that I think could lead to the collapse of social services in New York City.

And literally no one is in charge. And I think a lot about if we were still there, if Andrew Cuomo were still governor, a year ago, we would have handled this. We would have gotten it under control. We would have ensured that we got federal funding that was necessary. Governor probably would have flown down to Texas and, you know, gone to fisticuffs with Abbott. I mean, to let, you know, this happen and get so out of control and act almost as if they have absolutely no role to play. I mean, the same thing is happening. You know, there was a big Buffalo snowstorm where she just deferred to the locals who didn't close the roads and people. died in their cars because no one stepped up and exerted leadership. The legislature, she defers the legislature on everything. And so I just believe that the role of governor of the state of New York is one of immense responsibility. And there's a lot expected in terms of leadership. And she's just time and again failed to step up to the plate. It was a little Stalinistic, though, too, how she, and you write about this, she wiped out all of his, all of Governor Cuomo's AIDS. I mean, Lyndon Johnson didn't do that. Harry Truman didn't do that. Um, sometimes

you need the people in place that actually know what the hell is going on. But if you're myopic and you're insecure, you're going to wipe everybody out because you don't want any threats near you. And she tries to govern through the virtue signaling. I mean, I personally think she's a disaster. I get invited to these different events to see her. I'm like, you know, I'm good because we actually need a better solution for the state of New York. Well, what's interesting is she in such a short period of time. She's reoriented the press and the public's expectations around what a governor is supposed to do. It's almost like she's become an afterthought. And she's so marginalized the office. It's incredibly disappointing. And I keep waiting at some point she's going to wake up.

At some point, she's going to hire some people around her who can help her figure this out. And as time goes by, it just continues to get worse and worse. And for me, as someone who loves the city who lives in the city who's lived in the city for 20 years, I think the next two to three years of this city is going to determine the next 20 to 30 years. So there's a crisis and it doesn't feel like there's anyone at the helm. And that's not me trying to be gratuitous or be nasty, the person who came after for the sake of being nasty. This is a concerned citizen who sat in that chair and know what should be getting done and isn't getting done. Melissa, she's got a 40% approval rating.

So there's a very large, there's a majority of New Yorkers that feel the same way you do. And many of us appreciate your eloquence and honesty on the topic. Let's go to Jesse McKinley. Yep. New York Times journalist. Tell us a little bit about her. I talk about Jesse McKinley in the book. In May of 2020, the governor and the Times were back at it again.

There was sort of this moment of reprieve, but in late April, early May, they start, you know, getting at it again where they're constantly sort of nipping at each other's heels. It's getting more and more fraud. And then May 20th, they came to, they had this exchange in a press conference that was particularly, And as always was sort of my instinct, I wanted to fix it. So after the press conference was over, I called him up. I said the time to take the temperature down. He agreed. Everything was closed because of COVID. So I went to his house. We were going to have a socially distilled chat in the backyard. We're each having glass of wine. You know, I have two glasses of wine. He is well over a bottle of wine. As I'm getting up to go, you know, he starts talking about my eye color, are your eyes blue or green? Lean in. Let me see. I'm like,

okay, it's definitely time to go. And so I get my bag and I stand up to leave. And he grabs my wrist and says, you know, don't go, stay. It's still early. Let's have another drink. And we have this moment where I'm sort of like, what the fuck. And I grab my wrist back. I grab my bag, jet through the house and leave and immediately tell a handful of people, including another New York Times reporter who was a dear friend. When I was telling that New York Times reporter what happened, I was not making a formal complaint. I did not think he was going back to say anything about it. But I did, you know, confide in him as a friend. And then you fast forward 10 months. The Me Too scandal is well underway in Albany.

Jesse McKinley is assigned to be the head reporter writing these stories, including things like putting on the front page of the newspaper that the governor put his hands on a woman's face at a wedding, a wedding that he was officiating. He's walking around, kissing everyone on the cheek posing for photos. He puts his hand on a woman's face at a wedding. And they put this on the front page of the New York Times like a front page offense. and just sheer hypocrisy of the Times and how they handled this. And so then I had dinner with that friend of mine who I had originally told.

And I said, you know, it's not lost on me that the Times has Jesse McKinley driving the coverage on this. And he said to me, you know, Melissa, I did tell Carolyn Ryan about it at the time. At which point my head sort of explodes because I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Carolyn Ryan knew back in June what had happened and not only didn't do anything about it, You know, not even like a cursory look into this. Is there something potentially inappropriate here? Is there something we need to know about? She's the top female aide to the governor. He's the Albany Bureau chief. Not only did they not do that, but then they let him take the lead on the Me Too coverage. And I had a moment where I couldn't stomach the hypocrisy any longer. And so I blew the whistle. And we came forward and we told them and they did an investigation. And I'd say investigation in air quotes. They interviewed 11 of his colleagues. I told them five. people I told about in real time. They didn't speak to any of them. They apparently discounted what I had told Nick Confessori in real time, despite the fact that he was a senior investigative reporter for them,

who clearly thought it was credible enough to raise the flag. And they came back and said, you know, we didn't substantiate your sequence of events, but oh, by the way, he's getting moved beads. And then subsequently we learned that they also sent him to alcohol rehab. So it was just one lesson, you know, one set of rules for the, another for me. And for the New York Times who drove the Me Too movement, who, you know, as sport, we're out hunting men all over this city and this country trying to put heads on walls when it was happening in their own backyard handled it very differently. They did it to me, you know, they went on LinkedIn and they looked up every single woman that ever worked for me if they had the name Skybridge in the, and they called up and said, hello, woman that worked for Anthony Scaramucci, when did he sexually. harass you and at what time? And they were like, wait, what? No, Anthony actually never did that. And then they were calling me, these women. And finally, I had to get to one of the editors. I said, okay, you've worked on

this for six months. You've interviewed every single woman in my life. Are you going to write the story or not write the story? What are you going to write? And of course, they had to call me and say, no, no, we're not writing the story. They couldn't find anybody. But they were on a hunt. And the reason I'm bringing up, Jesse, is that it's such hypocritical way of going about things. But, you know, I love your book in so many different ways. It's real. It's honest. You're writing about the hypocrisy. You're writing about the dilemma that we're in right now with the woke movement in terms of how everything is going through the prism of this virtue signaling. And basically, Governor Hockle herself is running the state through the prism of virtue signaling as opposed to actually

doing the right thing. She's for the migrants until she's against the migrants, Melissa, when it becomes ridiculously to handle them all. So I promise you a half hour out. I know I'm in overtime. So I'm going to ask these questions quickly, okay? Are you done with public service? Yes or no? I don't think so. I think that, you know, I'm a junkie. I think at some point down the line, I'm not going to be able to help myself. That's the correct answer. I'm not going to sell through the clothes. Okay, that's the correct answer. So you're not done with public service. Okay, I have five words that I'm going to read to you when I do this with all my authors and then I want you to just whatever comes to mind, I want you to say it. Okay, it could be a word, a sentence,

a paragraph, it doesn't matter. Here are the five words. The first word is actually to New York. Tough. The name Cuomo, Cuomo. Tough. Tough, right? We're New Yorkers, right? Effective.

Tough and effective. Tough and effective. How about politics? When I say the word politics, what do you think? Dirty, you know? How about the word power? Fleeting. Amen.

Slips right through your fingers, right? For all of us, though, right? Yep. Charles de Gaul once said, you know, there are graveyards filled with men who once thought they were indispensable. Yep, that's right. So it's fleeting, right? The whole thing is fleeting. Yep. What about Melissa DeRosa? What would you say about her?

Not done yet. Yeah, that's great. I love that. You're becoming as opposed to being, and I love that. The title of this book is awesome. What's Left Unsaid, My Life at the Center of Power, Policies and Crisis. Love having you on the show. I hope you'll come back, okay? When you say you're not done yet, I hope you're not done with open book, Melissa. I got to have you back as we get into the political season. Even if you haven't written anything, I want to talk to you. about the upcoming elections, if you're cool with it.

I would love to. Thank you so much for having me on. It's so good to see. Great to have you on. So I found Melissa's book to be incredibly brave and insightful. It was hard hitting in some ways, but it was very honest and direct about the strengths and weaknesses of some of the people in public service. And let's face it, as I've said on previous podcast with Governor Cuomo and Chris Cuomo's

brother, it was a total hit job done on Governor Cuomo. He was getting too powerful. for the woke crowd. And so the woke crowd figured out a way to go after him. And Melissa talks about that in the podcast. Literally, they were conspiring together to find a way to topple Andrew. And so I'm proud to call both Governor Cuomo and Melissa Friends. We have a lot to be grateful for their leadership during the time of COVID in the Cuomo administration. And they were about to correct some of the overcorrection that was made after the Giuliani Bloomberg era, because of stop and frisk and some of the racist allegations made against stop and frisk, we sort of overcorrected

into this bail reform, which has been nonsensical for urban life here in New York. And Governor Cuomo was in the process of correcting that before he was ousted. That needs to be corrected. Kathy Holcomb will lose re-election if the migrant status stays where it is now. And the insidious crime and rates of homelessness in New York persist. You mark my words on that. And I'm very happy to hear that Melissa is not done with public service. I sort of feel like her best years are ahead of her. And what she's experienced thus far has been very successful for her, great learning experience, but a lot of road ahead for her.

I'm looking forward to watching her career unfold. Please get out and get a copy of her book. All right, Mom, you got a lot of fans out there. So I got people sending me texts that you use the word cuckula. You know, you're really nuts. But I had Melissa DeRosa. now I'm going to tell you who she is because you'll know who she is once I tell you. She was the right-hand person to Andrew Cuomo.

Do you remember the woman that was on TV with him during COVID? You used to watch Andrew every day during COVID, right? Right. Okay. So she has a brand new book out, okay? And it's a very honest book. She's throwing some punches at Joe Biden and Governor Hockle and Letitia James, the attorney general. So first of all, do you remember Melissa DeRosa?

What's your opinion of her? I think she's good. I think she's very smart. Okay, tell me why. She's very, to the point. I like people to the point. She doesn't BS so much. And she's honest, though, right? You like the honesty, right? Yeah, she's to the point. All right. So she thinks Joe Biden's incompetent. Do you think she's right?

She's definitely right. I think he's a beautiful person, but not for president. Right. He's a beautiful person, meaning what? Nice guy. Good young being. Try to be a good father. He's harmless. I don't think he's competent because he's too old. Like, his mind. It's not that sharp. Is he not tough enough to be president? No, he's not tough enough. Yeah, I agree with that.

He's not tough enough to be president. What about Governor Kathy Huckle? What do you think of her? I don't like her either, though. Okay, tell me. All right, tell me why. She does whatever best for her. Okay, but be more specific.

Be more specific. Well, I don't think she gets into it for the people the right way. I just think that the whole thing, our whole government's off the beaten camps. Okay, but meaning what, though, Ma? She's too politically contrived. She won't do the right thing because she's trying to send a message to certain people in her base. She won't help the homeless. What do you mean?

Just tell us what you mean. Well, I think that, first of all, there's so many homeless that it's an immortal sin to see them. They should be institutionalized. And I tell you, once before, in another podcast, they should open the mental hospitals and have good people take care of them, not animals, to treat them like animals. They are human beings with skin on their bones, and they should be treated correctly. And if they open good institutions for the mentally ill, we'll have less homeless and less people that are on drugs trying to find their way. I don't think they're doing enough for the drug dealers.

Okay. All right. That's honest. All right. Let me ask you this question, okay? When Melissa was on top of the press conferences with Andrew, with Governor Cuomo, did they seem competent to you? Yes. Okay.

Tell me why. Well, I think that Andrew Calmo has like a certain demeanor. Like he looks strong. When you look at him, he looks strong. Did he mess up? I don't even know if he really messed up. I don't know if they were trying to get him in trouble or he really messed up. I don't think he messed up the way they fit.

I don't really believe that. Right. Me either. I mean, that's all the whole point in Melissa's book is that they totally contrived it to try to knock him out of power. You know, also just think about this. The president called for his resignation one hour after. the Attorney General report came out. And then he was asked if he read the report.

They said no, he was afraid Andrew was going to run against them. That's why he went after him like that. Yes, that's exactly true. I think Andrew Como has a certain. I know his mother very well from a charitable thing that I did with her, that leukemia, which I have, with the Monty's son who dies in the same kind of leukemia that I have. North Shore Hospital.

Yep, Long Island, Jewish, North Shore, now Northwell. Yes. and they have their own room and everything. And I think that he was raised in a very atmosphere that's honest. And I think the upbringing of the Italian ethic background sticks with you when you're raised in a good family. And I think he had a good family. And I think he was good. I like him.

All right. You want me to go back into public service, Ma? Well, I think you'd make a very good president. I stop with the president. I mean, we're talking about dog catcher. We're not talking about president, okay? But you like people that go into public service is the point I'm making. Yes, I do.

Okay, tell me why. Well, I think that if they're intelligent, they will help the government become a good government. I think Harris is always giggling. I mean, what the hell is she giggling about? I don't like her. I don't know if I should say this on a podcast. No, but I don't like that. I think she should be fired.

But the problem is she's a black woman. They're never going to fire her. You know, Condoleezza Rice is a black woman, very competent. You know, Kamala Harris is a black woman, very incompetent. but you're not a lot of talk about that because of the color, you know, it's stupid. Well, I appreciate you coming on today, Ma. What else is going on with you? You like sharing your opinions with people?

Yeah, I tell us if they're good opinions, I try to think of before I speak, though. I don't have diarrhea of the mouth. I try to get myself composed to answer the questions. All right, all right. Maybe I should have taken some advice from you when I was the communications director, maybe, you know? I don't think you need it. You have a certain cloud. I think that, and I'm not saying it, because.

from your mother, but I think that you know how to speak better than anyone that has been speaking. All right, Mom. That's how I feel. All right. Make sure you tell my sister and brother that that I'm your favorite, okay? Make sure they know. Well, I have three children, and I have favorites for each individual on what they're made of. You happen to be a very, very regal, giving human being that, to me is pretty darn good.

All right. My other son is very sensitive, but he's very loving, and my daughter is very strong. All right, ma. I love you, ma. I love you very much, baby. I'll talk to you later. Very, very much. All right, thank you for coming on.

I am Anthony Scaramucci, and that was Open Book. Thank you for listening. If you like what you hear, tell your friends and make sure you hit follow or subscribe wherever you listen to your podcast. While you're there, please leave us a rating or review. If you want to connect with me or chat more about. the discussions, it's at Skaramucci on Twitter or Instagram. You can also text me at plus 1, 917, 909-29-29-996. I'd love to hear from you. I'll see you back here next week.