Open Book with Anthony Scaramucci - The Billionaire Class Has No Idea What's Coming - Daniel Silva

Episode Date: July 14, 2026

Daniel Silva is back for the 4th appearance on Open Book, with a new must-read book, Ransom, and once again, he's writing tomorrow's headlines before they even happen, from Russia's shadow war on Europe to the drones nobody wants to admit are already changing everything. Gabriel Allon gets pulled out of retirement one more time, and honestly, so did I, from the first page. Daniel Silva is the award-winning #1 New York Times bestselling author of twenty-eight previous novels. His books are critically acclaimed bestsellers around the world and have been translated into more than thirty languages. No idea how he keeps doing this, but each book is better than the last. Get yourself a copy of this brilliant new book, Ransom: A Novel. Anthony Scaramucci is the founder and managing partner of SkyBridge, a global alternative investment firm, and founder and chairman of SALT, a global thought leadership forum and venture studio. Pre-order my next book, All the Wrong Moves: How Three Catastrophic Decisions Led to the Rise of Trump, out on the 17th of September in the UK and the 22nd of September in the US: ⁠https://www.scaramucci.net/allthewrongmoves Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

People are making comparisons to the Gilded Age. Not even close. The wealth disparity now, I mean, the Gilded Age, it pales in comparison to where we are now. I don't know how long a society can hold together with this level of wealth disparity. There is also a rise of a global super rich that has just checked out, and they live in their bubble when they're just not invested in their fellow human beings. I am blown away by it because when I talk to certain people or even if I'm on Twitter, Mayor Mondani's messaging is resonating with a very large group of people.

This system is so corrupt. It's become crony capitalism. It's become a circuit of legislators into big corporations, back to legislators, give people this sort of self-dealing of what they want. And it's not really the form of capitalism that you and I grew up with. And so there's less meritocracy now. And so the mayor's message is resonating. If I put that out on Twitter, I've got billionaire, no-it-alls.

That'll tell me that I'm misguided and I bought it. into the propaganda. I haven't. I'm sensing the pulse of the population. Welcome to open book. I am your host, Anthony Scaramucci. And yes, we're back. It is my favorite time of the year. Why is that? I'm holding a Daniel Silva book. And the new title is Ransom. I got to tell you, I don't know how you do this, by the way, because each book is more compelling than the last one. Gabriel Alon has now accompanied us now through decades of geopolitical change, Mr. Sovo. And yet, decades. The stories are more relevant than ever. I sort of feel like you're a clairvoyant. I may hire you to be one of my psychics, actually. You tell me what's going to happen in the future. But when you sat down to

write ransom, what felt different or urgent about the world this time? And it's great to see you, by the way. It's good to see you, too. Go to the second half of the book first. everyone knows that Russia has been at war with Ukraine for going on five years now, I guess. But what is less well known, particularly here in the States, is that Russia is engaged in an absolute clandestine shadow war of sabotage and subversion against all of Western Europe. I have sort of written about this. I had been given some guys. guidance and I've touched on it a little bit over the years. But in 2019, we finally were able to pin down who was doing this and we came up with a name.

And it's called Unit 29155 of the GRU, which is their military intelligence service. They have been carrying out assassinations, sabotage. They used to be able to act really with impunity, because before the war, Russians, of course, could travel at will in Western Europe. Now that they've had to, we've have the sanctions and the travel bans, the GRU has had to change their playbook. And that is what this, that's the backdrop for this novel, that Russia has engaged in a secret war of sabotage against Western Europe.

They're trying to destroy liberal democracy, the global order, and replace it with one friendly to Moscow. They're also trying to punish the country, like Denmark that are some of Ukraine's biggest supporters and that's what's going on in the background

but it starts off of the nice lovely kidnapping of a rich British socialite so it's a fast-paced, fun, entertaining read. It's it's a it's definitely a hybrid it's a blend of a couple of different kinds

of genres. I want to go to your methodology for cracking because once again it's very topical you're predicting some things that are in the near future i don't want to give some of the plot lines away but i just want to go to your methodology uh looking at the world at the global dashboard on on blank unfortunately it's on tilt right now uh and so you're sitting there saying okay how can i write a compelling story where i can also leave some relevant information for the the reader about what's going on in the world. And so when you were turning the Rubik's Cube of the world in your mind, Daniel, why did you settle on this story, this plot? Without giving too much

away, I was fascinated by the drone incidents. And the Europeans have been very reluctant to come out and say flat out who was behind these drone incursions in Scandinavian, Germany, and elsewhere. But if you read between the lines of the Danish statement after the fact, it's very clear who they're talking about and who was behind this and who they think was behind it. And look, when it comes to drones, it's an overused phrase, but, you know, Pandora's box has been opened. The Ukrainians used drones to great effect that kept them in that war. Now they're launching devastating strikes deep inside Russia. Iran has used drones in their conflict.

And in my opinion, the Russians have used drones to disrupt European travel to create chaos. It is only a matter of time, in my opinion. before we have a major terrorist attack or an assassination that involves drones. And that's what I wanted to write about. And then I, of course, write about things in an accessible way. I think the magic of my books

and why the series succeeded where other series like this have sort of fallen by the wayside, is that they do appeal to readers who might not necessarily pick up an international thriller. And that's certainly the case with this book. You know, Gabriel gets drawn into this latest adventure because he agrees to appear at a fundraiser

for the National Gallery of Art in England. And one thing leads to another, and he finds himself trying to track down a missing British socialite. So again, I don't want to spoil the plot, but there is a man in here. He's a real estate baron by the name of Edward Knight. He's got a secret. Yeah.

And not going to tell people what that secret is, but he's got a secret dangerous enough, Daniel, to pull Gabriel out of retirement. Okay. So where did the character come from? Is this a real world, is there a real world archetype behind him? Is this a composite of some people you've met in your life or you've observed through the news? No. He is a creation.

But there are plenty, and you know this better than I do, there are plenty of people like Edward Knight. People in the property business who, as it's been explained to me, borrow a lot of money, try to make the right purchase, try to turn those properties into money-making properties. And, you know, things go sideways in a hurry in the commercial real estate business. And a lot of people sort of get out of alignment with their debt and their property.

And that happened to Edward Knight. And for better or worse, the wrong person wrote to his rescue. But there are a lot, you can probably name them yourself. There are small British family companies that are involved in the property business. Yeah, I mean, I love the guy. I mean, and I've met this guy, by the way. So I just want you to know. That's it.

I met this guy, okay? This is why I love the guy because, you know, he's right out of central casting. So, well, wait, wait, you, can you explain that? Why did I get him right? And why is he right out of central casting? Well, because he's trying to have an image about himself. And unfortunately, what we know is if you remember the beginning, of the Godfather. The first sentence that Mario Puzzo writes is a quote from Honor de Balzac.

And what does he say? Behind every great fortune, there is a great crime. It's a great crime. And so what we know is a lot of these people are dressing a certain way and they're acting a certain way and they're involved in certain things that are legitimate, but there's also some things lurking underneath their personalities. And we know this from our time in London that there's been some laundry facilities in London for cryptocratic cash for decades, right? I mean, there was even a book written a few years ago called The World's Butler about this sort of creation of laundromat facilities.

And I think you've done something which I think is so fascinating to me. I feel like you've replaced your villains over time. Your villains used to be cold warriors. your villains have been terrorists, your villains have been a whole assortment of the world's rogues. But I feel like we're meeting oligarchs and mobsters and financiers and now a property billionaire. And I guess has dirty money replaced the KGB as a great antagonist for spy fiction? For me, it has. And look, my character is an art restore.

and everyone who reads my books know that the art world, the art world is almost a character, a long-running character in this series. Art world is a wonderful confluence of all kinds of different people. People are attracted to art for its beauty, but also for the instant patina of elegance and gravitas that it conveys on the holder of art. Art is a great place to laundry. money. Art is a great place to conceal money. Art is a great place to offshore money. And so, you know, it's, it's, there's, I've dealt with art world corruption throughout this

series. But I don't know about you, but I, I am, I am deeply concerned about about wealth disparity. And, you know, people are talking about this, like, you know, making comparisons to the, the gilded age, not even close. The wealth disparity now. I mean, the gilded age, it pales in comparison to where we are now. I don't know how long a society can hold together with this level of wealth disparity. There is also a rise of a global super rich that has just checked out. And they live in a in their, in their bubble. They travel on their own aircraft. They know no boundaries. They have allegiance to no country. And they're just not invested in their fellow human beings. And frankly, there is, you know this better than I do. There is a lot of criminality and corruption in the world.

I've tried to get at this one time with an FBI source of my know, how much of the economy is corrupt and criminal. And it really could put a hard figure on it. But I think it's up there. I think there's just a tremendous amount of corruption in the world right now. When I was growing up, I would have told you consumption tax in the U.S. Like a VAT would have been a foolhardy proposition. I think now it's incredibly necessary because it would pick up all of this consumption

and this nefarious black market activity that's happening. in the economy, and it would also yield a better outcome for our fellow Americans. But to your point, Daniel, about the indifference, I am blown away by it because when I talk to certain people or even if I'm on Twitter, you know, Mayor Mondani's messaging is resonating with a very large group of people. I'm not a believer in the message because I'm more of a capitalist, but I'm going to let you know the system is so corrupt, it's become crony capitalism. It's become a circuit of legislators into big corporations back to legislators to give people this sort of self-dealing of what they want. And it's not really the form of capitalism that you and I grew up with. And so there's less meritocracy now.

And so the mayor's message is resonating. If I put that out on Twitter, I've got billionaire, no at all. That'll tell me that I'm misguided and I bought it. into the propaganda. I haven't. I'm sensing the pulse of the population. I think this is something you do, frankly, an amazing job with. I think you have a very good sense for where we are. And so tell me about conceptions and misconceptions. And so where do you think when you, when you, because you're obviously writing to your readers and you've done an amazing job of being with them in every step of the way. Where do you think your readers are on the wealth disparity right now?

Where do you think you are? Because, yes, I agree with you that the billionaire class has closed themselves off. They've generally become very indifferent and they almost laugh at the thing with some level of cynicism. But your reader is a wider birth of people than that. So where do you think your readers are on this big issue? You know, I have it really given that, much thought about where they are. But I would think that with very few exceptions,

I imagine I have a, I know I have a couple of billionaire readers, but I think that most Americans sort of agree with this. But, you know, they differ obviously, as you just pointed out on the prescription, how to handle it. And so do you have unfettered capitalism? And which is what we have right, now. We have no enforcement of any kind going on in our economy right now, as you know. No, it's very dangerous because it creates a wild west, but it also does this for people that grew up the way

we did in the middle class, they look up at it and say, okay, I can't get ahead. They've got a concrete ceiling above my head, you know? Yeah. So I think that, I think that all of my readers or virtually all of them would think that it's not healthy to have this kind of wealth disparity in our society and that people who work their asses off

at low-wage jobs and no matter how hard they work at $7 an hour or $8 an hour, they're barely surviving. They're barely keeping a roof over the head. There was a fascinating report that came out a couple of months ago

about the state of the average Americans' finances. And they were discussing it on the morning roundtable on CNBC. And I'm not going to say which host had this reaction. But he was startled and shocked to learn that the overwhelming majority of Americans have no savings whatsoever. That if their refrigerator broke, they wouldn't be able to replace it.

If their car breaks down, they wouldn't be able to get it running again. And yes, we've had this explosive growth in the stock market and all of these top five or seven firms are these gigantic firms are making huge amounts of money. But we are leaving more and more people behind. And it's not going to end well. It's not going to end well. This disparity is it's not healthy. And I don't think there's any example in history where you have this kind of disparity that.

that a system held together for the long term. Thank you for tuning in an open book. And if you haven't already, please hit the subscribe button below so that you're the first to know when our new episodes drop each week. We've got a lot more coming. And now back to the show.

So it brings me to the point about democracies. Because again, I always learned something from your books and I want to frame the question this way. Do you think democracies? And I'm really focused on the American and the UK democracies, do they possess the strategic patience? Or has social media made long-term thinking nearly impossible for them now? Do you think we are doing any long-term thinking on any issue?

I mean, I guess that the current administration has a vision of undoing the system that arose, say, starting in the 1960s, where it had this huge expansion of trade and had the effect of lifting. There was a statistic in the New York Times this morning. A gentleman from the IMF wrote about that 43% of the world's population in 1960 lived in desperate poverty. It's a shocking, I mean, imagine that we're today's population. I forget what we're up to in the global population. But now it's down to 10%.

And so this system that we built up after World War II, we did raise votes and we lifted a lot of people out of poverty. These guys want to undo that. And I know that the trade has been disruptive to our economy. There's no question about that. But I've worried that they're lurching us into a situation that's going to have, potentially explosive effects. But like the Chinese, are you saying that the Chinese can think long term?

Part of that is, and the Persians are like this, they've been around for a long time. These are very, very old societies and cultures. And I do think that we don't look over the horizon the way we used to. For a while we did. I mean, think of,

Think of the brilliance of the Truman administration and Marshall and those guys who could have turned their back on the world. They could have turned their back on Europe when it was falling apart after the war. And they said, no, if they go down, it's going to have disastrous effects, we're going to be fighting there again. And they went in and they built this system. And whatever the problems we have with NATO, it is the most successful military alliance in history. history, the period of peace that we have experienced in Europe, with the exception of the war now

and then the conflict in the former Yugoslavia, it's unprecedented in European history. No period has ever been as peaceful as the period that we created after World War II. I just think it's a terrible mistake that's throw it all away. Well, listen, I couldn't agree with you more. And I think that this is also a lot of people don't understand it. You know, when you quiz people in their 20s, 30s and 40s, you know, and this is the generational dilemma in America as we lose our living memory of what happened in the Second World War and the reasons for the Truman Doctrine and the ensuing policies that came out of the administration, people don't remember it, Daniel. And so now we're sitting here, you're trying to explain it to them. They're saying, well, I don't care. That was 80 years ago, you know, and this is the dilemma. It's almost like what Neil Howe wrote about in the fourth turning is we lose our general rational memory. We get a reset. But I think what I love about this book is you have three things going on in this book. And again, not giving up the plot, but you have a great war going on with the West, within a weakened adversary.

You know, the Russians have less GDP than the state of Texas, slightly below Italy. They're military and nuclear arsenal, but they really don't have the muster that they once had, but they understand propaganda. They understand how to use the GRU and their intelligence system and assassinations, and they're wreaking havoc. I mean, in my time on Earth, I believe they caused the Brexit. I believe they also cause this pain that we're going through in terms of questioning our democracy and the integrity of our electoral process. And a result of which they've done heavy, heavy damage and you're bringing it together in a very contemporary, very easy to understand, literate way. And then the second thing is going on, which I think you also capture so well for people, is that there is a right and wrong in a society. there is. There's a right and wrong. And ultimately, what side of that do you want to be on? You know, you could be corrupt and loaded or you could be slightly less loaded, but maybe have a more valuable life because of your morality. Isn't that one of the central messages of the book? I hope so. I hope so. And I hope that also what comes through is that the belief system of my character.

And what a decent person is. And I think that's the best advice you can give to some of the people you're just referencing to be decent. Can I follow up, though, to you're talking about this character, though, because he's always trying. No, he's the Michael Corleone of spy novel, okay? Poor SOB is always trying to retire. And they keep bringing back in. We can't get rid of him. Yeah, but I get it.

I bring him in the side door, though. And how I get him back in is a story in itself. But I want to follow up on something. You're talking about how much damage they've done and Brexit. They set out to literally rot and corrupt British institutions, the British financial system. and British politics. That was a goal of the Kremlin to use the money to rot British institutions. And there's a lot of reasons why Britain is in the situation it's been. And I mean,

this is not some small little republic that we're talking. This is the United Kingdom. And they are in a period of just unbelievable political turmoil to where people are using the ungovernable word to describe the United Kingdom of all places. And I truly believe that the long-term Russian plan to corrupt and corrode the financial industry, the British politics, I think they had a big hand in it. There's no question about that. And you do such a brilliant job writing that. I want to go to Alon for a second. So you started. Post 9-11, war on terror is now gone. You've reinvented him many times. But I want to wipe the whole slate clean. And let's talk about a young Gabriel Alon, not who he is today. And let's say

you were going to invent the character today for 2006. What agency would he work for? Would it still be the Mossad? And what would keep him up at night as a fresh along, 2006, given where the world is today, not where it started when you started writing about him? You know, and I was having this conversation with a former head of the Central Intelligence Agency just yesterday. We were talking about the startling, shocking changes that have taken place. in Israel over the last few years. The right word drifted the country.

And we were talking about Gabriel in that context. And I, you know, I explained to this former CIA director that, for example, my character would never have authorized detonating a bunch of pagers without any idea where these pagers were going to go off and who was going to be killed. And they've killed many, many innocent people, many innocent children. I said, my character would never have done that. And he said to me that the United States would never have authorized that operation. It would be against the law.

My character is now completely out of step with what's going on there. He would, if asked, he would not serve in the current government with, the extremists that are in that cabinet. But frankly, they've purged all of the people like Gabriel Lahn. All those old left of said juror, remember what Israel was like then. You know, he, as I've said, he grew up in a German-speaking household. And a German is his first language. He lived in a very socialistic society. And Israel has just changed. dramatically. So I guess that the biggest worry, I mean

he would, as a young person today, I think, I would hope that he would want this war to end. And that he would want his country to help in the rebuilding of Gaza. He would be working very hard

to stop the settler violence that's going on in the West Bank. It's just completely unacceptable. But but this government turns a blind eye to it. In fact, this hasn't, in my opinion, has encouraged it with its policies. He's weaker though or stronger? Oh, I mean, look, they are a hyperpower now regionally

that have extraordinary military power. But look, the divisions within the country and the society are profound. You know, my friends who are like the old Gabriel Lon that emerged out of the Ashkenazi, the elite security guys, and you know these guys, the elite, that they refer to secular Ashkenazi Jews, which is what Gabriel is. He had no religion in his home growing up. That they're an endangered species. in Israel.

And so the settler right and the hard right, the revisionist wing of Israel is descendant. And so I don't know where this is going. I don't know where this is going. So he's, I have

chosen to simply pretend that it's not happening. I've not referenced anything in the series. And I'm sort of playing with time a little bit. bit and trying to, I would like to preserve the option to write about him as long as I want. And so I've airbrushed him a little bit, taken a few years off him. He presents a little younger on the page than he really is. But a lot of people have asked me, though, when am I going

to write about it? I have no interest in writing about a war. It's left over 100,000 people dead, 20,000 children. I have no interest in writing about this war. And I don't think anyone wants to read about it, to be honest with you, in fiction. This is one of the, listen, no matter how you look at it and no matter what side you're on it, you know, people dying at that magnitude is a great tragedy. And so we, you know, it's not political to say that. It's just an observation as a fellow human being, fellow.

As a federal human dean. Fellow traveler on earth. I mean, I just, I think that's where we are. But, all right. So as you remember from our past, my producer and I, you took five words out of your book. Okay. I'm going to say the word and then something's going to come into your head and you're going to tell me what it is. Okay. You're ready? Okay. I say the word wealth. Wealth. And you think of what? I think that to obtain and acquire wealth and to look after your family and to care for your children

and that's it. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But to, but, to acquire, my wife and I have a saying, you know, how much money do you actually need? And so that I would like people of extraordinary wealth to do more, as you said, to help their fellow human beings, fellow travelers here on Earth. Yeah, listen, when I hear the word wealth, I hear danger. So, okay, I go, wait, wait, I want to ask you, why do you hear danger?

Because I grew up with no wealth, and I have a little bit of wealth now, knock on wood, in some ways, because it makes your life a little bit easier. But it's also dangerous because it can lead to entitlement. It can lead to disassociation. It can lead to confirmed biases, Daniel. You know, so if you're hanging out with wealthy people, guess why? You think everybody's doing well. And then if you go into one of the blighted manufacturing. towns in the country, you realize, wait a minute, the people I grew up with are not doing well.

And so it's dangerous because it could make you entitled. It could confirm your biases falsely. And you could get insulated from what's actually going on. And so you have to be very careful of those things. And the last thing, I have five children. I want them to have some hustle in them. And I don't want them to take anything for granted. So those are the things that come to mind when I are your wealth. that's so interesting about Palm Beach. I don't know if you spend much time there. It is, Palm Beach is an island. It's on the barrier island. You got to cross the inter-coastal and to get downtown Palm Beach is very, very nice now. But boy, you get across the

freeway. And that's a whole other world out there that people in Palm Beach know about. And I actually did a fundraiser this fall to help the library system and to to help feed and care for these people who are experiencing food insecurity out in West Palm Beach. So here you have the, I don't know if it's the wealthiest zip code in America, that strip has got to be. It lives in very close proximity to serious, serious poverty. And it's right there. The disparity is within a mile.

I'm, you know, and I, listen, I just went on the board of City Harvest, which is a food bank in New York, and we've got 1.2 million people that have food and security, and which is arguably the richest city in the world. It may not be the richest zip code, but if you look at the island of Manhattan and the five boroughs, we, people do generally well here, but there's a group of people, you know, you could have people working as maids and porters and bellhops, and they're just not making enough to help, you know, feed their family. And this is, there's a crowd. is going on that I think we both understand. And so when I hear the word, well, I hear danger. I want to go to power, though. When you hear the word power, sir, what do you think of? That's where I get, you know, our presidents the other day used the word rule to describe instead of govern. and it wasn't a slip of a tongue with him that he thought of himself as ruling the United States of America. I don't think that people should be in government because they want power.

When I think power, I think of authoritarianism, of autocracy. And I hope that would we, if we make it through this period, that the first, thing we do is rewrite all of the rules about, about, about money. And that has to extend to the president and the vice president. Power is the one that makes my hair back of my neck stand up. Yeah. For power to me, the other thing I think of when I hear power is arrogance. We can be very careful with power. We can sometimes see ourselves become ego-maniacal, egocentric with power. All right.

Here's two words. Okay, you ready? Yep. Alice Winter. Complex. Alice Winter is the missing British socialite that Gabriel attempts to track down. And, you know, she's incredibly bright woman. Cambridge graduate.

The life didn't turn out the way she expected it to because she met this wealthy older man and married him. And, you know, be careful what you wish for, because sometimes it comes along with a lot of stuff that you really don't want. When I hear Alice Winter, I hear the gap, There's an arbitrate, to use a Wall Street term, there's an arbitrage spread between a curated life, a curated life, and your real life. There's a gap between your filtered life on social media and your unfiltered life that you're actually living. And I think you've captured this part of our zeitguest about as fantastically as anybody could in the name Alice Winter.

And I applaud you for it because when I read about her, I was giggling. But then I was also saying, oh, man, I got to put the phone down more and be less, less conscious of my social media. I had a lot. Don't do that because I love your social media and I live vicariously through you. There's a lot going on with Alice Winter, man. I, I, I, I, she is a protagonist, antagonist, whatever you want to call her. But I, that's right. That's right.

I'm loving me some Alice Winter, okay? Me too. All right. So I want to go to the fourth word. Okay. And that's ransom. Yeah. Well, there are all kinds of different forms of ransom, aren't there? And, you know, at its core, it's a trade. You trade this for that. And we all make these decisions. We trade this for that and this for that. And I was actually had a different title for the book. And my wife insisted that it be called Ransom, even though it had been used in an old film.

But it just did actually capture a lot of what's going on. And it also plays into what the Russians are doing. So Ransom has a lot of slightly different variations of meaning that that really work for the book. So I want to test something on you because this has been my observation, six-decade observation. Ransom, when I hear the word ransom, despite our protestations, we generally pay ransom.

Yeah. We're not going to negotiate with terrorists or we're not going to do this. We're not going to do that. You know what? We generally do it. But in terms of straight K&R cases, you really have to do it the way he does it. Now, sometimes it gets so ugly that straight away that, that, that, uh, I agree with that.

But you, you don't, you don't put the family member on the phone with these guys. You put, you have someone like him, very cool, very calm, very businesslike. You never meet their first demand because they just think that they are, they underasked and they'll come back for more. And you just keep asking for proof of life, proof of life, proof of life. But always that final exchange is very, very difficult. So there's this great tragedy going on right now with Savannah Guthrie's mother. And so some of that also leaked into this book in my mind when I was reading about this. And so it's just a wonderful way you're able to capture all these elements of what's going on, our culture.

So, all right, the last word. This is two words. going to give you the last word. Gabriel alone. Yeah. As I said earlier, I hope that what comes through in this book and the previous book, that this guy, look, he is a restore. And what is it played throughout this entire series is the concept of Ticumma.

Pallum means repair of the world. And as Jews, you are obliged to help gather up the sparks that escaped the creation and set the world right and leave the world a better place. And my character, he restores more than just art. He restores people. He restores situations. He fixed his things. It's just in his character.

If he came in here and he saw that my. my mobile phone was lying at an incorrect angle, he would turn it the right way. And that's what motivates him. That's what drives him. And he is the voice for the voiceless. He stands up for those who can't stand up for themselves.

So well said. And I'm going to leave it there because I want people to go out and buy this book. The title of the book is Ransom. It's another brilliant novel about Gabriel Alon and so much more in hereby, legendary bestselling New York Times author, Daniel Silva. Thank you so much. I think this is your fourth time on open book, Daniel, saw.

I think so. I think I'm, is that, is that my last one? No, you can't have me back. Listen, I'm going to be banging on the door.

Oh, I'm knocking. I'm knocking on the window right now. I expect you to be back here next summer. If you started the, if you started the book, usually have some things working before the things. I do.

I'm not going to, I'm not going to show you the title yet, but yes, I have the right here. Yeah, you're working on it. Right. Yeah. So I hope I hope you'll be kind enough to accept my invitation to come back. I think so. I think it'll happen if you'll have me.

Well, I'm, I got to tell you, this is the most fun I have all summer. You did make the acknowledgments of my book. I don't know if your beautiful wife told you that, but in my book coming out of November, I'll send you a, a new version of it. but I did acknowledge you in the book because I feel like I've learned so much from you and from your writing style. And I've tried to incorporate some of the ways that you think about the world in this new nonfiction that I've written. I haven't acknowledged you for a while. You know what?

I probably should have talked to you about this book. My son-in-law, who you know, is in the commercial real estate business at Morgan Stanley. He was a big help. But you did help me create a... a fraudulent art fund Ponzi scheme. That was brilliant. I still get a lot of plaudits for that. Sorry, I heard your name it, Daniel Sobel book.

I said, yeah. But the scary thing, the scary thing is she said, you know, I think this might actually work. Yeah, but, of course, I know all the deviants on our society. I've been around you all. Okay. Thank you. Okay, we'll see you again.

Okay.