Open Book with Anthony Scaramucci - The Real Reason America Feels So Broken - Brad Meltzer

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Starting point is 00:01:37 There are signs of weakness and petty insecurity. To me, what takes strength is actually using your voice and standing up for someone and being kind and showing decency, showing empathy. We get caught up as Americans in the fight. We love the fight. I mean, that's part of being American is loving the fight. We're a country founded on a fight. That's one side of us, but we can't forget that other side of us, you know, that's written on that. Statue of Liberty that's written in all of our hearts. Now what we're seeing is this real assault

Starting point is 00:02:03 on decency, an assault on empathy. When you have a problem with history, you can always say, well, here's the real history. You can fight back by looking at it. But you can't make America legislate empathy. You can't make them legislate kindness. And I think what you're seeing on both sides are fed up with the fight. They're fed up with how we talk to each other. They're fed up with how we're just going at each other's throats. And I think that we have this great side of us that tells us when we're supposed to fight in America. We can't forget that we have a side of us that shows us when we're supposed to be kind to each other. And if we lose that, to me, we lose one of the most important parts of being in America. That's what makes us the greatest country on earth.

Starting point is 00:02:40 Welcome to Open Book. I am your host, Anthony Scaramucci. In a return performance, an encore performance, we have the legendary Brad Meltzer, award-winning author, bestseller, and so many different, I mean, this genre of stuff that you're writing and the bandwidth of the way you write is truly incredible. But this new book, which I love, the title of the book is called The Viper. It's a Zig and Nolan novel. First of all, it's great to have you back on the show. I just want to remind people we spoke last year about the book, the JFK Conspiracy, which I tell people to go out and read.

Starting point is 00:03:17 It was a phenomenal book there. But now we've got something different. This is the third book of the acclaimed Zig and Nola series. So who are Zig and Nola? And why should our viewers and listeners be interested in them and go out and buy your book? Yeah. So let's talk about just the setup of the book. And we go out of Zaganola.

Starting point is 00:03:36 And basically a guy walks into a funeral home and he's carrying a blue suit. It's the suit he's going to be buried him. And that's what happens. When people are going to die and they have no family, they pick out what they're going to wear. Now, if you open up a suit, a bank account, paperwork gets filed, government wants to track it, they'll eventually can find it. If you open up, go in the UPS store and open up a P.O. box, paperwork gets filed. You can track that too. There's cookie jars now that have Wi-Fi on them. You can find out

Starting point is 00:04:03 who stole the last chocolate chip. But if you go into a funeral home and you take the suit, you're going to be buried in, and you sew something into a secret compartment in the lining of the suit, you have an untraceable hiding spot. And that's what this guy does. He hands over the suit to this mortician who locks it in a closet, puts it where everything's stored, goes back to his hotel room and there's a guy with a gun who says, show me where it is, I want it. And he says, I don't know what you're talking about. Shoot some dead.

Starting point is 00:04:30 And what's hiding in that suit, of course, drives the plot forward. It's the greatest secret ever. I just ruined chapter one of the viper. But you didn't ruin it because it creates a page. It creates a page turner. No, and I appreciate that. But to answer your question, it's Zig who finds out what? what's going on. And Zig is my, he's my main character. He works at Dover Air Force Base. He's a mortician there.

Starting point is 00:04:54 And Anthony, I do a lot of work with the U.S.O. I, you know, I've traveled the world with the U.S.O. That's where I learned about Dover. And Dover is where all those flag-covered coffins when military members, when they, when they die, their bodies come to Dover. It's where our astronauts, when the spatial exploded, their bodies went to Dover 2. It's where the Pentagon victims on 9-11, their bodies went to Dover. And all of our 007, So everyone in the CIA who does a mission somewhere abroad, when they die on their mission, their bodies go to Dover, which means Dover's a place that's filled with secrets. And I love secrets.

Starting point is 00:05:27 And the morticians there will literally smooth someone's jaw and rebuild it and smooth it over with clay for 12 hours because the family says they want to see their son one last time in their coffin. They'll rebuild someone's hand because the mother pleads and says, I want to hold my son's hand one last time. These are the best of the best of us working on the best of the best of us. became obsessed with this place called Dover Air Force Base. It's America's most secret of funeral home. And that's obviously what drives the plot of the book. When you talk to morticians and, you know, we've all, unfortunately,

Starting point is 00:06:01 and so our life that we have, we have our challenges. And we have to talk to morticians and funeral directors. What do they say to you about the mystery between life and death? It is interesting. They have some of the guys I speak to are matter. fact and just believe, you know, this is where we are and then we're there. And depending on their religion, of course, their answers differ. But here's what I find fascinating is the people at work at Dover, the morticians there, they believe that that last moment when a military family

Starting point is 00:06:32 gets to see their son or daughter one last time, that that moment, that being able to give them that sense of closure, which some people will say never exist, you know, when I buried my parents, I can tell you this. I spent a long time trying to figure out, what am I going to get over it? How am I going to get over the death of my mom? How I get over the death of my dad? I wrote all these books about death trying to figure it out,

Starting point is 00:06:55 and I finally realized, my friend, I'm never going to get over it. Never. And you're not supposed to get over it. And no matter what any mortician does to fix your body up or anything else, you'll never get over it. What you do, and anyone who's lost someone deep in their soul knows is you never get over. What you do is you transform. You become someone different.

Starting point is 00:07:15 And I think the morticians that I speak to, they find solace and that they know they can't get anyone over it, but they can at least give a lasting good memory. But in terms of the spiritual side of that, I think it's just a pen's personal person. I think most of them have seen death so much that they're more matter of fact about it than any of us are. And you know what they all are, and this is the important part. They're not afraid of it. Yeah. No, it's coming. That's how the story ends for all of us.

Starting point is 00:07:44 We don't want to think about it. We do everything we can to avoid it. But morticians just know it's coming. That's a natural part of life. That's the thing I got. It's an interesting thing that you're saying because that's ultimately my realization and the loved ones that I have lost, it's a natural part of this whole thing. And so, you know, I want to be here in 21, 25, Brett.

Starting point is 00:08:08 I want to be here in 22, 25. I want to see this beautiful experiment unfold and see all the wonderful technology. and the hope for mankind and womankind. But I know that my time is limited like everybody else. And maybe it makes life more sacred that it's limited. But you write about these very interesting characters. This is the most fascinating part of your personality that I've observed. You've got all of these interesting characters in your brain.

Starting point is 00:08:35 And you seem to understand human nature better than most. So let's go to Nola. Okay. Nola in particular, she's fearless. She's volatile. She's intuitive. Who's Nola? And how did you shape her?

Starting point is 00:08:47 And how did you create her? Yeah, I was on a military base in Virginia. And I was in, they were giving me a tour. And it was this giant warehouse. And in this warehouse, it's filled with art of all things. It looks like the end of Indiana Jones, right? But it's got all this art. And I'm like, they got Adolf Hitler's paintings.

Starting point is 00:09:06 They have paintings by all these military, you know, from privates up to generals. I'm like, why is the army got all this art? And they explained to me, and this is true, that since World War I, the army has had an actual painter on staff who paints disasters as they happen. So whether it's storming the beaches of Normandy, whether it's Vietnam, whether it's 9-11, they've got a painter. And I'm like, you're telling me that everyone else is racing in with guns blazing, and you've got someone who's racing in with nothing but paintbrushes in their pockets. I'm like, that guy sounds crazy. I got to meet him. I want to meet him. And they said, you mean her. You want to meet her. You want to meet her. her. And it was a woman, a woman named Amy Brown, and became a dear friend of mine. I named Nola Brown after her, my main character, the other main character. And here's the thing is Zigg,

Starting point is 00:09:54 the male hero of the book, he believes if you want to make the world a better place, you got to be a good person. If you're a good person, a kind person, a world would be a better place. It's a beautiful idea. It's a naive idea, but it's an idea worth fighting for. Would you believe it? Noel is different, though. She believes you want to make the world the better place you grab it by the throat. Do you believe what Zig is saying that you make the world a better place by being a good person? Well, here's what I believe. I 100% believe that. But I also believe that Nola is right that when you see injustice, sometimes you got to grab the world by the throat and force it to make sense, especially when you're fighting for someone who's being bullied and who's being picked on. And I think this is me now. I spoke to many books, right? We know each other a long time now. I spent a long time. I spent a long time. time thinking, oh, you know, who's Nola, who's Zig? How does it relate to me? And I realize I'm both of them. All I've been trying to do, it took me 2,000 pages to figure it out. But all I've been

Starting point is 00:10:50 trying to do in all these books is just figure out which side of me is actually right, the kind side or that war fight side. And the answer is, of course, both of them. We all are made of love and war. We all have things we need to be gentle with. We all have things we need to fight for like nobody's business. And I used to fight against that. And I think I'm now realized, you know what, That's not a something that's a contradiction, but it's something that's beautiful. It's fascinating that you bring this up because, you know, I don't know if you read Damien by Herman Hesse, that they forced you to read that when you were in college. No, but I'm a huge. He used to live in my old neighborhood, so I used to be obsessed with his books.

Starting point is 00:11:31 So, but in Damien, he writes about this Abraxis, that there's a good and an evil side of all of our personalities. our mutual friend Robert Green and the 48 Laws of Power. I've interviewed him on this show, writes about this as well. You imply it in your writings. But I guess the real question for me about all this is, this is really a question about aspiration, okay, because you're trying to be the best person you can be. I'm trying to be the best person I can be,

Starting point is 00:12:05 but your characters are a mixed bag, Brad. there's a lot of ambivalence there. So explain that to me. Yeah. I mean, listen, this genre that you and I love so much thrillers, right? It's fun when you have the great guy who knows what he's doing and he got the lantern jaw and he saves the girl and kisses her and the sunsets. I mean, that's great. You can do great stories like that. I have no interest in those stories. Like, I'm much more interested in reality and the reality of our soldiers, the reality of what's really happening on the front lines. Reality of all this is we're all amazing and we're terrible. and we're wonderful and we're kind and we're selfish. All of us, sometimes within the same hour, of course, and within the same day. And again, that's a, that's not a terrible thing. I spent a long time, you know, I'm going to tell you a very personal story that I don't get to tell, but my father, I used to be really pissed at my father for a long time. They rest in peace, but we just had a complicated relationship. And my dad kind of screwed a lot of things up financially in our lives. And, you know, he messed up like when I went to college.

Starting point is 00:13:08 when he stopped paying, I got kicked out of college. And they were like, oh, I got to turn it into loans, which is fine. I don't mind doing it. Of course, I was thrilled to be there. When I graduated, he opened up $40,000 of credit cards in my name. That's how he was paying for me to get through college. And I was spent a long time really pissed that he would do all these dumb things. But here's the part of the story, Anthony, that I missed.

Starting point is 00:13:30 When I dad died, I told this at his funeral, is my dad used to get beat up by his dad. My grandfather was a boxer in the military. He served in World War II. to and he used to punch my dad. And my dad used to jump in front of my, his younger brother, my uncle to make sure he didn't get hit. I know my dad used to jump in front of my grandmother, so she didn't get hit. And the part of the story that I forgot is that my dad, while doing all these dumb things

Starting point is 00:13:56 for me, was doing, he was jumping in front of punches for me so I could be the first one in my family to get out. And I didn't tell that part of the story because I was so busy being pissed. I was so mad that he screwed my life up. I mean, when he opened $40,000 of credit cards to pay for my college, it was a terrible plan. It's not like it was a good plan, but he was trying to make sure that I didn't have any loans by doing it that way.

Starting point is 00:14:20 He's going to take a 22% credit card interest rate rather than a 1% loan for me to have. He didn't even want me to have the 1% loan. So yeah, it was dumb, but he was trying to take the punch for me. And all of that is to say, all of us do amazing things and selfish things and stupid things. that doesn't make us bad people or good people. It makes us human beings. And I think the more we can embrace that and accept ourselves, man, the more power you're on lock within yourself. And that's what all my books are about is just trying to show you the power of that ordinary person who can just be so incredible and so selfish, but also do amazingly great things.

Starting point is 00:14:57 So not to make it even more personal, what I'm curious is that I have had my own tribulations of my own dad. Were you able to forgive him before he passed? I was. You know, the one thing I was good at, I'm not good at many things, but I made peace with my dad before he passed. I told him on his death, but I told him a couple of things. But one of them was I said, you were a great dad. His biggest fear was that it was going to be like his father and be a terrible father. So we made peace. And I knew it intellectually, but I think I carried around the anger of that for many years. My dad's been gone for, you know, a decade now. And I think for many of those years, I was still, I made peace with him, but I was still mad. I was mad about that relationship. I didn't have. And, And I think some of my books, what you see, look at every, there was someone who read one of my thrillers, a bunch of them and said to me, hey, Brad, I've read like three or four of your thrillers now. What's the deal with you and your dad? This is the start of my career. So this has been kind of illuminating everything I've written forever. But all of us, that relationship we have with our fathers and our moms too. But those parents are the most complicated relationship we'll have in our lives. And I love the fact, did you get to make peace with your dad? No. Actually. Now one haunts you on it. I see body language on it right now.

Starting point is 00:16:09 Yeah, if I'm going to be honest about it. No, I appreciate that honestly. It's one of my regrets. I think in listening to your story, I think we sometimes forget that our parents have their origin story and the struggle that they're coming out of. And what we know about human psychology is sometimes we replicate the story of our ancestry. You know, there's a little bit of that sort of ancestral DNA, that trauma, if you will, that passes from one generation to the next.

Starting point is 00:16:42 And so, you know, and maybe your dad was a little bit more successful than my bad at breaking certain cycles. And maybe you were a little bit smarter than me than noticing that. I think it's one of my regrets, frankly. I should have been, I've forgiven them now for whatever that's worth, Brad, but probably needed to have forgiven him a little bit earlier than this very moment. I think it's an important part of your story. I'm very happy that you're sharing it because it's a sign of your complexity and your realism, which is affecting your ability to write such great books. You know, one of the reason why I started this podcast is I feel that authors, you know,

Starting point is 00:17:25 took you several months perhaps to write this book. You've got your insights into human nature. and you've got your insights into the way the world works. And look at the gift that I have. I can read it in three or four or five hours, something that took you months to write and something that took you lots of time to prepare. And so I always tell people you don't have enough life to not read.

Starting point is 00:17:48 The more you read, the more you're going to learn, and the more you're going to experience the earth. You just don't have enough life in you from your own life experience. It's just going to be too narrow of approach to life, which is why I so greatly, enjoy our friendship. You know, Harlan Colbyn said something about Nola, not since the girl with the dragon tattoo, has he read a character like this.

Starting point is 00:18:14 What did he mean? Tell us about Nola, this complex. Yeah, I mean, you know, Nola for me, she is the character that everyone kind of gravitates to because she's just so badass and she doesn't, here's the thing. And this is where she's far better than I am. She has no compromise in her. And sometimes, as we all know, that could be a terrible thing. But she has a real sense of right and wrong.

Starting point is 00:18:37 And for me, you know, Nola was thrown away like garbage when she was little. Was thrown out of her house, had no parents, eventually found this guy who adopted her. Basically, you needed someone to clean his house. And Nola, like whether it's the girl with the dragon tattoo or even Batman or whatever, is has that sense of right and wrong of like, I was harmed. And we'll spend the rest of our life punching people, hurting people, fighting, and wrangling around to not have the conversation you and I just have been having, which is to actually take a hard look at ourselves. That's the hardest fight any of us can have. Right. And when we thrash around and get violent and get angry,

Starting point is 00:19:20 we're just, all of that is a mask to what really hurts us. And Nola will never, ever, love Zig, you know, work with Zig, team up with Zig, like Zig even. But Zig has lost his daughter and will never have a daughter. And Nola never had a father and will never have a father. And that is the true north of all these books is that neither of them will ever get what they want. And for me, that's what life is. Like the fact, what you said about your dad, man, I'm going to carry that with me all day. Like, don't beat yourself up because of that, right?

Starting point is 00:19:56 Like the fact, the fact, the fact you've been able to, like, accept and forgive him now after, that's the answer. That's the magic. I think, I think ultimately that is the answer. And, like, I think that what people forget about forgiveness is it's important for yourself, you know, because, you know, I don't give yourself. I don't, I don't think the Buddhists ever said this, but it's a great line, you know, the anger is a poison you're drinking, hoping it affects the person you're angry at. But, you know, if anything, all it's doing is hurt. you. It is hurting your ability for your transformation. You know, if you want to break generational trauma and cycles, start with forgiveness. And the first person, Brad, you have to forgive always

Starting point is 00:20:37 is yourself. I mean, what are you going to do? You're just, you're doing it. You're doing it the best of your capability. And we're all shooting in the dark, which is why I love reading your books, because they're so revealing about the nature of our personalities. It's also something about your books. All of your books are like this, by the way, there's a, there's a tinge of patriotism in your books, I feel. You know, I don't know if I ever told you this story. You know, the way I got involved with the U.S.O is an incredible story. It was after 9-11 and the sailor on a submarine writes me a letter.

Starting point is 00:21:08 And he says, hey, listen, we don't have a big library on. I can't tell you where we are in a secret location. He says, but we don't have a big library, but we got wanting to thrillers here. And I just want to thank you, Brad, because it really brought me peace at this time when I needed it. I thought that was a nicest thank you I've ever gotten. I got to do something nice for that sailor. So I call my publisher and I say, hey, can I get 10,000 books donated to the U.S.O? And she says, yeah, I'm like, that was easy.

Starting point is 00:21:31 Call another publisher. Can I get 10,000 books down it? Another, another. We get 40,000 books donated to the U.S.O. I get involved with U.S.O. I start going over. They bring, they bring, um, thriller writers, but six thriller writers as the war was winding down every year to go entertain the troops.

Starting point is 00:21:45 And I get there into Kuwait the first night. And this soldier stands up and he says, hey, Brad, I want to thank you for all those years ago donating books. through the U.S.O. And I said, how do you even know that? Almost nobody knows that. And he said, when I was serving in Iraq and Afghanistan, I'd always see stacks of your books.

Starting point is 00:22:02 And they'd say courtesy of U.S.O, so I know you had to have donated them. And I'm like, yeah, man, but you're getting it all wrong. I'm here to thank you. You screwed it all up. You got it all backwards. But I realize the person who I need to thank is that original sailor.

Starting point is 00:22:15 So when I get back from Kuwait, I track him down. I find him. It's been almost a decade. And I call them up and I say, hey, listen, I don't know if you remember, but 10 years ago, you wrote me a letter saying, and I got 40,000 books, don't it. You said all this stuff in motion, all this good came out of your thank you.

Starting point is 00:22:31 I want to thank you now, brother. And he's, you know, when you're on the phone, Anthony, with someone, you know something's wrong? He's dead silent. And I say, are you okay? And he says, no. And I said, what's wrong? And he said, you know, my mother just died from breast cancer. And what he has no idea of is right before that, my mother had died from breast cancer.

Starting point is 00:22:52 breast cancer. And I'm not one of those new agey people, you know, feels like, you know, there's rainbows and new records. But I say right in that moment, I say to him, listen, man, I think I'm here to deliver a message to you. And he says, what's the message? I said, when my mom died, everyone gave me useless advice. And, but one person said something that actually was meaningful to me. I think I'm here to tell it to you. And he says, what's the message? And he said, I said, our mothers never leave us ever. And he starts crying. And because he's crying and I'm getting emotional. Again, sometimes we think we're alone in this universe and other times we realize we're profoundly connected. And that love, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that I have for that man, right? Like, that love

Starting point is 00:23:35 I have for my country, that's why I got involved with you. So I've, that's always built into my stuff. So, yes, you will read my books and always find that love of patriotism. Yeah, there's no question. The other, the other thing about these books, first of all, there's another amazing story. Um, but there's also, It's idealism in your books, you know, and there's idealism about America, but also I feel like you understand that some of the greatest ideals about America also present its greatest vulnerabilities. Am I wrong? No. Listen, today, cruelty and venom and harshly judging those we disagree with, it's become sport in our culture. But cruelty and venom aren't signs of strength.

Starting point is 00:24:18 There are signs of weakness and petty insecurity. To me, what takes strength is actually using your voice and standing up for someone and being kind and showing decency, showing empathy. And I think for me, you know, sometimes we get caught up as Americans in the fight. We love the fight. I mean, that's part of being American is love in the fight where a country founded on a fight. But we can't forget that that beautiful, you know, that's one side of us, but we can't forget that that other side of us, you know, that's written on that Statue of Liberty. that's written, you know, in all of our hearts. When we see, you know, there's, I'm someone who's, you know, part of, you know, the National Archives. I was asked to be part of America 250. I do a lot of work

Starting point is 00:24:58 with, you know, the culture and the country. And I think right now what we're seeing is this real assault on decency, an assault on empathy. You know, when you see the, even when the White House got plowed down and the East Wing got taken down, right? When you have a problem with history, You can always say, well, here's the real history. You can fight back by looking at it. But you can't make America legislate empathy. You can't make them legislate kindness. And I think what you're seeing on both sides, I believe we're seeing it right now, is you're seeing both sides are fed up with the fight. They're fed up with how we talk to each other. Yeah. They're fed up with how we're just going at each other's throats. And I think that for me, that is, you know, we have this great side of us that tells us when we're supposed to fight in America. but we can't forget that we have a side of us that shows us when we're supposed to be kind to each other. And if we lose that, to me, we lose one of the most important parts of being American. That's what makes us the greatest country on earth. Well, listen, and I'm not only am I with you, I think America does go through these periods of self-doubt and then reflection and then redemption and renewal.

Starting point is 00:26:09 And so I think we're going to go through that phase again here. I want to bring it back to the book. You've said that the thrillers often glimps. memorize heroism. But there's a cost here. There's a reckoning in this book, right? Tell us a little bit about that. What responsibility do you think popular fiction writers have about telling us these hard truths? Yeah, one of the things I found when I was, you know, I always go to when I go to Dover Air Force Base, I'm always like, what's going on now? Where are we? And I've been there when the war was on and all the bodies that were coming through there were fallen soldiers and service members who had died

Starting point is 00:26:45 And whether it's IEDs or they died in attacks or they were shot, and those are the bodies that they were working on. But the wars aren't going that way anymore. So when I went to Dover for this book to research it, I was like, what's going on? And they're like, well, a thing that's always going on. I said, suicide. Military suicides. You know that since 9-11, military suicides are four times higher than the deaths in combat.

Starting point is 00:27:11 For over 30,000 soldiers, there's nowhere left to run. run and there's no war on. And when I talk to people about, I'm like, well, what can I do? How do I fight back against that? They said to me one simple thing, talk about it, tell people that. So in the book, when you read The Viper, you will see that stat is right in there. You will see Zig working on someone who committed suicide. It is the death in our military that we are fighting against more than any others. It's that struggle with mental health. And I think thriller writers, you know, we love saying, hey, you know, the fight is great and go get in and go do that. And I believe in all of that.

Starting point is 00:27:46 But I think we also need to not turn our backs on our, you know, the service members who are serving. And I think I know right now there's someone listening that of all of our conversation, everything we've discussed, whether it's the thriller, whether it's our parents, whether it's whatever else, this is the most important part that they're going to hear is you are not alone. You are not alone out there. And whether you've got to talk to wound warrior, there's, you know, any of the suicide prevention places, please, please, please go get help. no, it's not you.

Starting point is 00:28:13 There are so many brothers and sisters out there who have been through what you've been through. And we got to help us. Listen, Brad, it's incredibly powerful and necessary message. I mean, to lose one person a day like this is beyond tragic. Okay, so we're down to the last couple minutes here. You remember this from the last podcast? I come up with five words with my producer. Okay, so the first word is one that we're talking about right now.

Starting point is 00:28:38 I'm going to say the word service. And you say what? I do I have to, can I do it in a sentence or I just have to give you one word back? Yeah, I mean, I think services is necessary. I think it's what builds character, is serving someone else. It'll never. We feel better when we're serving others, you know. Always.

Starting point is 00:28:56 It's a therapeutic thing, you know. I mean, it's a thing they tell alcoholics, right? Go serve others, help others. It'll make you feel better. Christian, Jewish, alcohol, you know, military. It's one thing we all agree on. Yeah, Jackie Robertson said it's better than. all of us. My life is, I'm at my best when I'm serving others. Okay. I say the word power.

Starting point is 00:29:19 Dangerous. Power is a dangerous thing. People always forget their lowest moments and they always remember when they're in power. You know, corruption. That's what I hear. That's that. Be careful. Say the word truth. I think is Superman right now, ma'am. I think a Superman. I think the truth is on, as I'm hoping is on the comeback. I don't, I will never give up on truth. truth, justice, than the American way. That's Superman. What about Zig? Zig is kindness, empathy. That's it. And that character is my desire and my fight for it. Nola.

Starting point is 00:29:55 And Nola is the opposite. Nola is war. And when you see someone and you see injustice, you've got to fight like you've never fought before. Well, listen, the book is amazing. I encourage everybody to get out there and buy it. The title of the book is The Viper. Brad Meltzer. I appreciate you coming back on as always. And, you know, we're overdue for a beer, you and me. So I know. We saw to do that. We can't wait. We've got to get together. But thank you once again for joining us an open book and a Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah to you, Brad. Merry Christmas, happy Hanukkah. Thank you, brother. When a country's productivity cycle is broken, people feel it in their paychecks, their communities, their futures. What does this mean for individuals, communities, and businesses across the country?

Starting point is 00:30:53 Join business leaders, policymakers, and influencers for CGs' national series on the Canadian Standard of Living, productivity, and innovation. Learn what's driving Canada's productivity decline and discover actionable solutions to reverse it.

Open Book with Anthony Scaramucci - The Real Reason America Feels So Broken - Brad Meltzer

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