Open Book with Anthony Scaramucci - The Thriller of the Summer with T.J. Newman

Episode Date: May 29, 2023

As summer travel heats up, International bestselling author TJ Newman joins Anthony to discuss her much-anticipated new book, Drowning. Following the publishing sensation of her first novel Falling, TJ opens up about her nerves surrounding this release, she lets us in on her dark side, and reveals her the most disgusting she experienced during her career as a flight attendant… Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. Hello, I'm Anthony Scaramucci, and this is open. book where I talk with some of the brightest minds out there about everything surrounding the written word, from authors and historians to figures in entertainment, neuroscientists, political activists, and of course, Wall Street. Sorry, I can't resist. Before we get into today's episode, if you haven't already, please hit follow or subscribe wherever you get your podcast and leave us a review. We all love a review, even the bad ones. I want to hear the parts you're enjoying or how we can do

better. You know I can roll with the punches, so let me know. Anyways, let's get to it. My guest today is the incredible T.J. Newman. If you want tension and shock, suspense, buckle up. TJ's books are for you. I was a well-plast bedtime with both of T.J.'s books. They're absolutely unput-downable. I'm already counting down the days until book three. I'm ready for the all-nighter. Okay, so joining us now on Open Book, I'm very delighted to bring in T.J. Newman. She is a former flight attendant, but she is an international bestselling author now, wrote two amazing books. The first one was falling. I have to tell you that you made me an insomnia for two nights. I had to finish the book because I had to find out what the hell was going to happen. And now you're out with drowning,

which also Holly and I could not put down. So the two books, falling and now drowning both bestsellers. But before we get into the books, I want to start with T.J. Newman. Who are you? How did you become a flight attendant? And how did you finally find your passion in book writing? Who, how do I narrow it down? First of all, thank you so much for having me on. It's wonderful to talk with you. T.J. Newman, who is she? Where did she come from? How did she get here? Let's see. Well, I'm a storyteller at heart, first and foremost. Always have been. always will be, but my path to where I am now was certainly not straightforward, and it certainly was not easy. I started out pursuing theater as my primary avenue of storytelling. I moved to

New York City after I got a degree of musical theater and did the whole, you know, starving artist trying to make it, you know, with my dreams of being on Broadway. And, well, since we're not discussing what my next show is, you can guess how well that attempt, It was nonstop failure, nonstop rejection. And so I left and I moved back home to Phoenix and I moved into my parents' house, you know. And then I'm doing the whole mid-20s living in my childhood bedroom, wondering what I do with my life with a degree in musical theater when the musical theater community just told me I wasn't good enough. You know, all those fun existential crisis questions. and my mom suggested that I apply to Changing Hands bookstore, a local indie bookstore up the street.

And so I did and I got a job. And that was, I would say, kind of the first step in the process of where I am now. Because my time at the bookstore was crucial, absolutely crucial to this journey. You know, I've been a lifelong reader, a lifelong writer. But coming off of the embarrassing failure that I had in New York, my time in the bookstore was the first time that I let myself start to dream again, right? And to think, you know, well, stories, I'm a storyteller. This is a way I can tell stories and be with stories and be with people who love stories and want to talk about stories. Like we are, you know, in a way that's not quite so out there, quite so public.

So I started writing at night, you know, in secret. I didn't tell anybody. I just started writing stories. And it was my time at the book story that my dream, my lifelong dream of being a published author became a concrete goal. You know, I remember shelving books, you know, by authors with the last name Newman, and I used to take my, my thumb, and I would cover up their first name and pretend that it was my own book that I was shelving.

So you manifest that a lot of this, you know, the, but the job as a flight attendant, I think, inspired some of the storytelling, right? I mean, you, you know, and I read Cockpit Confidential. I don't have you ever read that book, Cockpit Confidential. Did you ever read that book? I have not, no, but I will look it up. Okay, but anyway, it was about flight attendants. It was interviews of pilots and flight attendants about the good, bad and the ugly that takes place on a plane and all the different things that are happening on a plane while, you know, the passengers are comfortably in the plane taking off and landing safely. But you guys are, you know, if necessary, trained in CPR, if necessary, you know, can help bring somebody back to life under cardiac arrest. If necessary, you know,

exactly where at any point in the flight path to get that plane out of the air if there's an emergency. And I think so much of that realism comes out in your books. I mean, your books, let's face it, I mean, if you're afraid of flying, T.J., your books are not the book. I mean, you know, I can't, my wife won't read the book because she's a panic flyer. And I'm like, oh, you're You've got to read this. It's about blah. She said, oh, no, no, no. She starts sweating. But tell me about how you use your experience as a flight attendant to infuse these stories with so much realism. Yeah, absolutely. I, you know, people will say to me all the time, like, you're, you were a flight attendant. Why are you thinking about things like this? Why are you thinking of all these terrible things

that could go wrong? And my response to that was always, that's exactly what you want your flight attendants thinking about. That is how pilots and flight attendants are trained to think. We are constantly thinking about what could go wrong. And in the unlikely event that something does go wrong, what am I going to do about it? That's, it's, it's a safety forward, you know, habit of thinking so that you're ready in the unlikely event that something does happen. So that's how we're trained to think. And, and, you know, you alluded to planes and flights being, um, something always going on, something always happening. And that's the truth. It's a, it's a, it's a, you know, it's a, you get several hundred people in a, in a single space. that are complete strangers and you sort of close them in, like there's bound to be conflict

and drama that's going to come up and whether or not it's, you know, the person in front of you is reclining their seat, you know, the baby's crying, whatever it is, there's conflict. And so you combine someone who has an imagination that's constantly turning conflict into major stories with that kind of environment. And when I was on the plane, it was just, I was constantly just seeing stories and seeing potentials and seeing ideas. Okay. So, let's see. Let's go to this brand new book. It's coming out on May 30th. The first book was falling.

So I don't want to do any plot spoilers. They're amazing book. I mean, as I said, couldn't stop reading it. This one's drowning. It's different. It's cool. Tell us a little bit about the plot. Yeah.

Thank you. I knew that when I started writing the second book that I was, I knew two things. I knew I was going to have to go bigger and I knew I was going to have to make it different. So insofar as they're both, you know, dramatic. incidents that happen on a flight. That's sort of the extent of they diverge shortly after that. Drowning. Drowning tells the story of flight 1421, a flight from Honolulu to San Francisco that crashes into the ocean six minutes after takeoff. The passengers immediately evacuate until an explosion forces those who didn't get out in time to close the doors. But it's too late.

Plain floods and sinks with 12 people trapped inside, including a father and his 11-year-old daughter. So now their only hope at survival lies with an elite rescue team on the surface led by her mother and his soon-to-be ex-wife. Okay. So let me ask you this. Why? I mean, that is shit-scaring if ever there was something. So, you know, are you just like a Stephen King of air travel or something like that? I mean, why? Why not? I mean, you know, when I thought of that scenario, when I thought a plane with people trapped inside, underwater with the plane teetering on the edge of an undersea cliff, when I think of that, my immediate next question is, okay, what happens? And those are the stories that I write, right? The stories that you hear the setup and you go, you turn the page, right? You want to know what happened. So those are the types of stories I love. love. They're the books I love to read, the movies I love to watch. I just, I love those massive, fun, blockbuster stories that are just an escape, right? They're just entertaining. I love that. Those are the type of stories I like to tell. And I don't know, it's, it's a fine line between, you know, like, we dig into our fears, right? That's why horror movies exist. That's why Stephen King is

Stephen King because there's something really exciting about exploring your fears in a way that if it gets to be too much, you set the book down. You press pause on the movie. You know, you can, it's a, it's a way to explore big feelings without the actual physical or emotional risk of having them happen in real life. Yes, it's interesting. So if we, I mean, not to get existential, but if we have no death, we probably have less fear, right? But our whole biology is, set up for our survival, which is why we have this fighter flight response as we were roaming the jungles and now we're in this sort of civilized jungle or perhaps it's more uncivilized than we think. Let me step back for a second. Is it safe to fly? Oh, it's very safe to fly. Aviation, you know,

airline travel is the safest form of transportation there is. Statistically, it's proven. It's very safe to fly. Okay. So we both agree on that. I mean, I don't have any fear of flying, but I do love these stories because this is that like 19th Sigma event. Oh my God. Then what happens? And of course, we're living vicariously. Again, I want to give the plot away, but you have some fantastic characters in this story. So Will and Shannon, Molly Kit, Chris. I mean, these are fantastic characters. So in a broad brush, without giving a lot of the plot away, paint for us a little bit about these characters, what they're like, how they interact with each other. Why are they so interesting? This story, I mean, the whole, I just gave you the elevator pitch of the book, but that's not what the story is. That's just the setup. The story is really about a fractured family coming back together. You've got Will and you've got Chris, a married couple who are now separated, who are dealing with a family tragedy, the grieving and reckoning with a family tragedy that happened before this plain incident.

They're dealing with that to begin with. And now their 11-year-old daughter is, you know, caught in the middle of potentially another catastrophic tragedy to their family. So you've got two motivations there by with one parent top side and one parent inside the plane who literally will stop at nothing to protect their child. And then in the midst of that, you've got the other, you know, 10 people that are in the plane with Will and Shannon who are, you know, think of any flight you've ever taken. It's the guy sitting next to you. It's the woman in the row in front of you. These people that you know absolutely nothing about that in a given circumstance that goes, Hey, wire, you're going to find out a lot about this person very quickly.

And I think that that came from my experience as a flight attendant, you know, being on a flight with a hundred-some strangers every day and trying to read these people, right? Like, flight attendants are also trained to think like that. We're trained to be situationally aware and read. people. Is this guy sick? Is this going to be a medical issue once we're up in the air that if I can handle this on the ground, I should. Is this person appear to be intoxicated? This woman is crying. Why is she crying? Is this going to be an issue? Is this person a threat? We are trained to constantly be looking at people and try to. And also, who's a friendly? Who do you think, okay, we've got a problem

on the flight? This guy can help me a medical doctor, a former Marine, a police officer, you know, a fireman, a firewoman. Exactly. We call him ABPs, able-bodied persons. And they're the people that we know during boarding, a flight attendant is looking at people and going, okay, that's a very strong college-age young man that, in the event that I need someone of that description, I'm making a mental note of where he's sitting so I know where to go to. So yes, that's, you know, that's what we're constantly doing. And I'm fascinated by that idea in both of my books, in both of these stories of what happens when you put, or people into extraordinary situations. Because, you know, so many of these amazing stories that I love to read and watch, like they're about the astronaut. They're about the, you know, the Navy SEAL. They're about a person who is qualified to do this. I'm really interested and, well, what happens when you get a worst case scenario with a bunch

of people who aren't qualified to do this? They're just regular old Joe's off the street. What does that bring out in a person? No, exactly. Yeah, and also, too, it brings the distance, you know, when you're reading a book and you go, oh, gosh, what is he going to do? Meaning the character, when it's a situation that you could feasibly find yourself in, it's way shorter to go to, what would I do? And then that just enhances the whole reading experience as far as I'm concerned, because you're constantly wondering, gosh, I could be in this situation one day. What would I do?

That's interesting. You know, I always think about that. You know, I did this, I did the special forces reality show last year for Fox. So I was out there with like Mike Piazza and Dwight Howard, a few guys. And I did the show for a lot of different reasons. I wanted to see if I could handle it. I mean, they put me in a car. They drowned me.

I failed, by the way, because I couldn't hold, I panicked. I couldn't hold my breath for the requisite 60 seconds. I left the car after 30 seconds. I don't feel like dying. But I did stomach getting in the car with the seatbelt on and they sunk me to the bottom. I backed off the helicopter just fine, 30 feet in the air, did a backdive off the copter. I mean, they set me on fire. I put myself out of fire.

But, you know, I'm always looking for that as it. Could I handle it? Could I test myself in the situation? How do you know that about you? You obviously have that. Did you always have that? Did you grow into it? How do you know that about you?

I think I'm my mother's daughter. I think I was raised by a woman that I've seen handle business. when she needed to handle business. So it's a burn the boats mentality. I got to do this. Nothing else I can do. Got to do it. So I'm just going to go ahead and do it.

Because what's the alternative, right? Like why the alternative to that is... People double and triple guess themselves, DJ. That's why I'm asking. Sometimes you just have to shoot the target, right? That's exactly right. It's not that I don't second and triple guess myself too. I get that.

It's just at a certain point you have to... And I don't care what it is that you're going up. At a certain point, you just have to kind of go, why is my fear greater than what I want to accomplish here? Yeah, no, exactly. So let me ask you this, the 9-11 flights. What was your reaction to the 9-11 flights and as a flight attendant and somebody that, obviously that was an unspeakable tragedy and, you know, we all lost friends on 9-11,

at least us here in New York. What's your reaction to the 9-11 flights? Changed everything. I wasn't working as a flight attendant at that time. I was too young. but my mother was. And having that sort of, you know, everybody has a personal relationship to that day. And that is one aspect of mine.

And that it was easy to envision, well, my mom could have been on one of those flights. My mom could have been a working flight attendant on one of those four flights. And that, you know, that changes your perspective on it. Look, that day, there was aviation before that day and aviation after that day. Yeah, no question. Yeah. It changed everything. And my mom, you know, my mom's, she's a career flight attendant her whole life.

So she flew in both eras. And so I got to, you know, talk to her and sort of understand from her perspective how that did change things. But I think also it's it's why I'm fascinated with the industry and why I portray it with as much respect as I do. because, and that is how I write my books. I have written my books to portray pilots and flight attendants as the heroes that they are. They are first responders. They are on the front lines. And especially as flight attendants, you know, it's, it's a common misconception that

flight attendants are on board for service that we're there to bring you a drink. And I understand that because that's typically all you ever see us do. You want the paying customer to see that and only believe that, but you know the underside of that story. That's what makes your book so fascinating. Exactly. If you never see me doing my job, that's a great day. If all you see me doing is bringing you peanuts and a drink, then I have not done my job that day. I've just provided some service, and that's a great day for me because a flight attendant is on board for safety and security.

Full stop. That is the purpose for a flight attendant. on board. We're there to evacuate an airplane. We're there to, you know, shock your heart when you, you know, go into cardiac arrest. We are there to provide safety and security. Service is just something that we gladly provide. And so writing these books from that angle and, you know, a response that I get all the time from, from readers is I never knew. I never really realized that flight attendants were that well trained, that they, you know, had that kind of expertise, that there was that much responsibility in the role of a flight attendant. This has increased my role, my respect

for the role of a flight attendant. Like nothing makes me happier than that feedback because that's, that's what they are. They're heroes. And that's how I portray them. Okay. So got to ask you this question, because it was asked of Stephen King. He was asked, do you have a dark side? And Stephen King said, yes, I do have a dark side. And thank God for it. That was his answer to it. But, you know, because it helped them manifest all these imaginative stories, which have led to such a best-selling, you know, storied career. Do you have a dark side? I'm not sure you can write in the genre with which I write in and Stephen King writes in.

And I don't even know if you can be a human being without having a dark side. I think that it's the dark that helps us understand the light, right? Like, you look at, when I look at my stories, it's like it's easy to say they're dark and they're, you know, danger-filled. and fear field and all of this. But really, when you read them, they're about love and hope. Yeah, no question. Heroism, about heroism.

You write about heroes. Which you can't have, right, I write about heroes. And what is a hero? A hero is courageous. And the only way that you have courage is if there is also the presence of fear, right? You're not courageous on a happy day.

You're not courageous when everything's going right. courageous when you're faced with the darkness. And so in order to have what my stories really are, what I truly love, which is an underdog, which is a happy ending, which is a success story, which is all of these, you know, lovely, positive things, you can't have that without the darkness. Let's talk about the open letter to dreamers. And let me set the backdrop for our listeners. you had 41 rejections. Your friend Don Winslow writes about it on Twitter often that you were blown to pieces and told no, no, no, no, no repeatedly.

And yet you hung in there. And now you have, correct me from Moran, but it looks like that you sold the rights to falling to universal. So you went from no, no, no to two bestselling books. This one will be a bestseller, of course, because everyone that read the first one is going to read this one. Tell us about the open letter to Dreamers. What did you write in that letter and what were you feeling when you wrote it?

I wrote an open letter to Dreamers for Deadline Hollywood that was basically the letter that I wish I would have read. The letter that I wish someone would have written me after I left New York, after I failed, after I basically decided to give up, I needed somebody to say, yeah, it's hard. And yeah, the odds aren't good. But why not you? Somebody's going to break through. Somebody's going to do it. Why not you? Right.

Exactly. I think that's the message. Not the message about life. You know, I'm going to humble brag here, I guess, or brag, brag, brag. My 28-year-old daughter, 27-year-old daughter, a series of rejection singing has now got the lead to play Christine in Phantom of the Opera Europe. She was casted by Andrew Lloyd Weber. 10 solid years of getting the stiff arm in her face, and she finally has that breakthrough moment. So at what point do you give up, right? And my answer is never. You know, you lock on the target,

bust through the target, burn the boats, take no prisoners. Do you feel that way? I do feel that way. I mean, look, that's a personal question that everybody has to answer for themselves. The problem is, I feel like people's answer that they would answer that for themselves gets influenced by too many external influences. And I feel like it's easier to listen to the fear and to listen to the voices that are telling you, not, you should stop. You're not good enough. No. Next. Thank you. It's easier to listen to those people sometimes than it is to our own internal compass, like you're a daughter who's saying, no, I was, I was born for this. This is what I was meant to do. This is my right. I'm going to take it no matter what happens to me, right?

Exactly. And delayed is not denied. And I am going to keep moving forward until I get exactly what I want. And congratulations to your daughter. That is, I am so happy hearing that. Yeah, you know, I'm bringing her out because I'm obviously very proud of her, but you remind me of her because you guys have a can-doism and a never-give-up attitude. I think it's so important for people. It is darkest before dawn. You know, if you took the 40th rejection and went home, you would. wouldn't be where you are today. And I think people have to realize that they have to get up and they have to persist against the odds because everything's against the odds. Our own existence is against the odds. So you got falling is at universal. You sold drowning to Warner Brothers. So what's going to happen next?

I mean, I need another book, TJ. So what are we doing next? I'm deep into my third book. And I'm playing the third one as close to the best as I played the first two. but, you know, I've said it before. You don't work in an industry as fascinating and dramatic as aviation. And only, you know, you don't do that for 10 years and only walk away with like one or two good ideas. So I'm deep in a little horror story going.

Just so you know, the character names of like Anthony and Holly, my producer, they are available, by the way. And they're strong, they're strong names, TJ. There's strong names. I've never had a Holly and I've never had a. Anthony. So you know. No, okay. Just throwing out that, throwing out ideas out there. So your friend and mentor, Don Winslow, who's written an amazing trilogy, and obviously I've read all of the Homeric novels, you know, the Iliad and the Enoch, and I read the Aeneid. So great corollaries. And he sent me the key so I could identify which mobsters were actually the ancient Greeks and the ancient Romans.

We had a great time on our podcast together. But I said, listen, I got a question for T. J. Newman, needs to come from you, Don Winslow. So he provided us a question, and we're expecting an answer. You ready? I would never disappoint, Don, never. So yes, I'm ready. What is your grossest flight attendant story? Grossest. And I have to say, I listened to the Don podcast. It was a great show. You and Don had a great show. And when you got some point that my name came up, it was so funny because it was like a record scratch. It was like, all of a sudden, I just stopped in my house and turned around. It was like, wait, what? Why am I? Wait, what? It was very. very funny to hear my name. But you know, the first story that came to mind that at least I'm allowed to talk about on a podcast is I remember my first week flying straight out of initial training. I am brand new. There's not, you know, my uniform is perfectly pressed. I'm, I'm aiming to please everything as, you know, feeling overwhelming and big and exciting. And I just want to do my job as to the

best of my ability. And I remember I was working the shortest flight. One of the shortest flights there was in our entire system, which was San Francisco to Vegas, very short flight. And it was a Friday sunset flight, which means that you're taking all the party people into Las Vegas at that point. It's a very short flight. We've got to get through the whole service, through the whole cabin, and I'm new. I'm not great at this, you know, so I'm already feeling a little nervous, like, are we going to get this all done? Are we going to do this? In every single seat on the plaintiff's full flight, very short flight, turbulent because it's summertime going into Vegas. So it's always going to be turbulent.

We take off, wheels are up. Literally, we're five seconds into the flight, and I hear from the cabin, somebody gets sick. And I'm like, oh, so I immediately go out there. And Anthony, when I tell you, it was like a crime scene. It was every. We're being graphic, but it's a good audio visual. We're having a full-on comet vomit vomit going on, right? Fomit Comet.

We've turned a Comet Vomit Vomit into a literal situation. And in my head, I'm like, how am I going to get service done while cleaning this up? I've not got a biohazard issue. It was terrible. It was absolutely terrible. But I will say, I got it done. We got service done and we got everything cleaned up. You know, it's gross, but I'm glad I asked, right?

Because I've had the situation. I had my son is now, my oldest is 30, but he took a poop on a jet blue flight. And the stewardesses were mad at me. They were like yelling. I'm like, what do you want me to do? Do you want me to jump out of the plane? I mean, well, what do you? I mean, I was trying to get the kid into the bathroom.

There's, they wouldn't, bathrooms were filled up in the back. You know, I was like, all right. They were yelling at me. But anyway, it was fairly gross. What do you think happens to aviation? And what I mean by that is, you know, again, this is just my opinion. I believe that the world is going to, I think we're going to have massive further proliferation of aviation. I think that the Boeing's and the air buses are going to produce.

way more planes going forward and we're going to have way more air traffic. There's billions of people that are frankly under trafficked in the air and these countries are getting richer. And so my question is, do you believe that? Am I wrong to think that? And if I'm right to think that what happens? I mean, will it be too much congestion in the air? I mean, I agree with you. I think people, travel's not going anywhere. The world is just getting bigger and smaller at the same time. It was always an industry that I always felt a tremendous amount of job security in, you know, especially as a flight attendant, you know, there's all talk of automation and, you know, things like that and pilotless planes. And who knows, you know, AI is a big conversation topic

right now. And in my opinion, though, they would replace pilots before they would replace flight attendants on a plane because you can't get AI to evacuate an aircraft. You can't get, you can't get a robot to, you know, do the safety and security things that a flight attendant needs. So I always felt like there was a tremendous amount of job security in that way. And then also, you know, it's just, yeah, I mean, if my experience, and I can only speak to my experience, if my experience is any indication, like flights that used to be open, they're not anymore. Every flight is completely full all the time. Right. Amen. You know, I see that even when, you know, I'm moving around all over the country in the world. These planes are always packed. Okay, we're down on my last bit of my episode with you.

I have five words. You probably heard that on the Winslow. I give out five words. I want you to give me your reaction to these five words. Okay. You ready? All right. Okay. Success. Hard earned. Yeah, every success, no matter what it is, it's tremendous hard work. People don't see all the peddling, right? It's an overnight success is 15 years, right? And that's, you know what? That's such a good point. It's like my, you know, quote, success that I've had has completely reframed the way I look at anyone who achieves excellence in whatever they do. I don't care if that's a professional athlete, if it's teacher of the year, if it's, you know, whatever it is that you're excelling at, the effort and work that it took to get there, the effort, the work, the sacrifice, the dogged determination. It's just

changed my respect for anybody who is, you know, trying to be the best at what is they're trying to do. Okay. Dreaming. Oh, vital. First word that came to mind is vital. You know, it's the naysayers and the harsh reality is going to be there. It's just going to be there because that's life, which makes the dreaming just more and more vital. You have to have that hope. You have to have that dream. You have to have that goal that you're working towards. Falling.

I mean, the first thing to come to. comes to my mind is my book. And the first thing that I thought of was, oh, my baby, like that. There's something about, you know, first book. It was, I mean, that book changed my life. Everything changed in my life because of that book. And it's, it's a deeply personal, you know, journey from where I was to where I am now. And that was the, the thing that got me there. And so I will always have sort of that, you know, my baby, reaction to that book. Drowning. I am so proud of this book.

I really, I worked so hard on this book and coming off of falling and the success that falling had and, you know, asking myself, can I do it again? Can I, can I capture lightning and a bottle again? And that's not up to me to decide, but what I can say is that, damn, I worked hard. And I really enjoyed the process and the challenge. of doing it. And I am just so excited for this book to be out in the wild and for people to read this story because I love these characters and I rooted for these characters. And I wasn't sure coming off of falling that I would have that sort of same experience, but I did. And I am,

I'm just so proud of this book. Okay, my last word, T.J. Newman. It's weird because that's me, right? Like my name, people always ask me, you know, T.J., what is that? And I'm like, well, it's me. My name is Tori Jan, TJ. I've always gone by TJ or T.E. Just Don calls me, which I love. So it's me. But I also, when I chose to go by the name T.J., I did it because I want to just a little bit of arms length between the public persona of the writer and the personal persona that hangs out with my family and my friends and has all the range of emotions that a human being would have. I wanted just a little bit of buffer between those two entities because it just felt, you know, less overwhelming and less vulnerable because writing in and of itself is a vulnerable exercise. So it's almost weird in this way that when I think of T.J. Newman, there's a there's a slight distance between me and that persona.

Yeah. Well, that's your, that's your motif. I mean, that's your Noom the Plum, right? Yeah. I mean, it's you. But it's also, it's also the character that you're jumping into. to write and express yourself. Yeah.

And it's also, it became like a nice shorthand for myself and for the people in my life who love me where, you know, when things do get overwhelming as the process of, you know, publishing a book is. It's like, I've created a nice shorthand to be like, okay, Tori's not getting that much attention right now. I need to focus a little bit on Tori because everything is about TJ right now. And Tori is needing a little bit of, you know, reassurance. And so, I don't know.

It's, when I think of TJ, I think. that's sort of like the next chapter in my life. And I'm grateful for what that chapter has become. And that has all been under, you know, that, that label, that banner, that name. Well, listen, you congratulations on everything. You've, you've written two amazing books. Your book, Drowning is out May 30th. It destined to be a bestseller. And I really appreciate you spending time with us today on Open Book. Thank you, T.J. Newman. I so appreciate it also. Thank you, Anthony. Well, wow, you got an unbelievable conversation there with T.J. Newman. She's incredible. What a writer, a gifted storyteller. She gets all the cues about suspense. You know, sometimes when I'm turning pages in a T.J. Newman book, I'm saying, oh, God, here comes the end of this chapter, which is going to force me to start the next chapter. So she's literally like a printing streaming company. You can't stop. You've got to go. It's a

you're finished, hence the dark circles under my eyes. But I'm telling you, I'll be holding off on my flights for a few weeks. I don't feel like ever living a T.J. Newman book. But remember, folks, it's very safe to fly. I am just kidding. T.J.'s got an amazing story, but it's mostly fiction. You're safe in a plane. And you should read the book, unlike my wife, Deirdre, who will never read a T.J. Newman book because probably the apex of flying with tremendous fears and anxiety. So we'll see what happens, but God bless T.J. Newman, and congratulations on this new bestseller, drowning. All right, you want to come back on the show, Ma? You know, you're the favorite part of the show. Again? Yeah, lower the Bocelli, Ma. Lower the Bochelli, Ma, lower the Alexa. Or as you

say, the Alexis. Lower the Alexis. It's, it's funny. Okay. All right, so Ma, you know I'm always traveling, right? Right. Do you think I like flying or I don't like flying? I think you like making money. I think I like making money. It doesn't matter, right? Right. Yeah, that's funny because one of my friends, Bob Castro Gano, says you hate the golf. That's because there's not $100 bills in the golf holes.

There were $100 bills in the sand traps. I'd be running towards them, right? Right. You like making money. Right. But do you like flying, ma? Yeah, I do. Tell me why.

You're not afraid? I'm not afraid. Well, I used to drive a bike when I was 30 years old. Right. How could it be afraid to fly? How could you be afraid to fly? Right. So there's no problem, right?

So you're just, while the plane is bouncing and bumping, you're just, uh, right. No. You're just, uh, hanging out, hanging loose. I'm edgy. Right. I used to be edgy as a kid. Yes. All right.

Let me ask you this question. I have a woman that I just interviewed. She was rejected 41 times, 41 times. Okay. From her getting her manuscript printed. So she's now written two best selling books. So this is a little bit like my. daughter Amelia, 10 years of trying to break into Broadway, she finally got her break because

she stayed with it and she handled with a plumb all of the rejection. So what's your reaction of that, staying with things that you really love? My reaction is to stay with it. Absolutely. Because someday the door gets open. And so you should never give up no matter what, right? Right. I had a father who used to tell me you never give up. If your mind is made up, you keep going forward. What were you dreaming about mine? I know you wanted to have kids and stuff like that, but what was your, what was the big dream when you were

smoking cigarettes with the window open in the bathroom so that Nana didn't beat the hell out of or pull your hair or hit you with a wooden spoon? What were you dreaming about? I just was edgy as a kid. I used to ride horses. I brought a motorcycle. I used to

smoke when not too many people smoked but I was very, very spoiled monetarily. So I was empty. Okay. Did you smoke pot? No. You never did that.

Never did anything like that. Because that wasn't in your environment. You think if you were a 25-year-old now, you'd be a pot smoker? Maybe. I don't know. Maybe. Oh, my God. At this point, I don't believe in pot, so I think it's so gateway to heart of drugs.

All right. It's a gateway to heart of drugs. But when you were a kid, who the hell knows, you probably could have been smoking, right? Yeah, you're so nuts, ma. How did you get to be so nuts, though, right? You just really don't give a shit about anything. So how did you get to be so nuts, Mom? Well, I had two brothers that gave me a lot of self-confidence.

And I just go forward. All right. Anything out you want to say, Mama? And I love you very much. That's what. I am Anthony Scaramucci, and that was Open Book. Thank you for listening. If you like what you hear, tell your friends,

and make sure you hit follow or subscribe wherever you listen to your podcast. While you're there, please leave us a rating or review. If you want to connect with me or chat more about the discussions, it's at Scaramucci on Twitter or Instagram. You can also text me at Plus 1, 917, 909-29-996. I'd love to hear from you. I'll see you back here next week.