Open Book with Anthony Scaramucci - The Ugliness Of Politics Is A Reflection of the Ugliness That Is Society with Governor Andrew Cuomo

Episode Date: May 8, 2023

Anthony talks with Andrew Cuomo, the 56th Governor of New York. With over 20 years of friendship under their belt, Anthony and Andrew get personal on the highs and very public lows life has thrown at them. Together they discuss what the city they both love needs, to do better. Of course, we couldn’t have the elder Cuomo brother on without getting into some of that sibling rivalry… Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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free of charge. BetMGEMGEMP operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. In communities across Canada, hourly Amazon employees can grow their skills and their paycheck by enrolling in free skills training programs for in-demand fields. Learn more at aboutamazon.ca. Hello, I'm Anthony Scaramucci and this is Open Book, where I talk with some of the brightest minds out there about everything surrounding the written word, from authors and historians to figures in entertainment, neuroscientists, political activists, and of course Wall Street. Sorry, I can't resist.

Before we get into today's episode, if you haven't already, please hit follow or subscribe, wherever you get your podcast, and leave us a review. We all love a review, even the bad ones. I want to hear the parts you're enjoying or how we can do better. You know I can roll with the punches, so let me know. Anyways, let's get to it. We couldn't invite one Cuomo brother on without the other. You love the conversation with Chris, so now we have Governor Andrew Cuomo.

Andrew Cuomo has dedicated his life to public service and has always been a great voice of reason in America. We need that voice more than ever right now, and that's what Andrew gives us on today's show. You do look like you've had a little bit of work done. You're using Latin American dictator brown now. The hair looks better. You were using Cuban leader black for a while,

and it didn't look as good on television. But yes, you look like you've had a lot of work done, Governor. Okay, just so you know. I have a little button note. Yes, you have a button nose. That cue tip that your brother carries around wouldn't fit in that nose anymore. All right. Well, welcome to Open Book. Governor Andrew Cuomo, the 56th governor of the state of New York, a great human being. And, you know, somebody I'm just very proud to call a friend who's been with me thick and thin. My good times and bad. You're just a great human being,

Andrew, and I appreciate you being here. And I want to remind viewers how far we go back. Okay. I supported the Andrew Cuomo campaign. You got to fact check me on this. In 2002, you were running for governor and you were primaring, I guess it was Carl McCall at the time. And they were telling you you were a little bit too early, but you were hell-bent of becoming governor. And you became governor, which was well predicted by me because of your personality and who you are. So we go back a long way, sir. And you're somebody, I'm very proud to call a friend.

and look, you're like a long-lost cousin minus the nose. I mean, let's just face it. Look at this button nose and then look at that nose. You know we're definitely not related, but we do love each other. Okay, so let's go to this recent op-ed in the New York Daily News titled America's Unrecognized Urban Crisis. You headed the Department of Housing and Urban Development under President Clinton. And listen, you were the maven on COVID. I can't tell you the number of people that miss you. I can't tell you the number of people

have said to me, we need Andrew's voice, Governor Cuomo's voice of reason, explaining things to us, making us more comfortable and also recognizing that he's going over the top as it relates to public safety. Okay, tell us what's happening. The cities seem out of control. We got big company saying, sorry, no moss. I've got to leave, Whole Foods, Walgreens. State education funding, seems like Suburban areas are winning versus the urban areas. Let's get into it together. Tell me what's happening. Tell me how we get fixed this, sir.

First, Anthony, thank you for the kind words. It's good to be with you. And we do go back 20 years. Remember when your parents would say, I know him 20 years. 20 years was like an unfathomable amount of time. I know him 20 years. Meant someone's going to die soon. You and I are dying.

We're too stubborn to die, Andrew, okay? I can't die right. right now. I got too many haters that I need to upset. I can't die right this second. You know what I mean? 20 years. But anyway, you know, we talk about, and most of the dialogue today, is all about the political mess that we have, right? It's about Mar-a-Lago. It's about Trump. It's about Alvin Bragg. It's about an indictment. It's about who's going to go to jail, the horse race, dissenters, Biden, all of that stuff, if you will. But what would missing is what's actually happening to the country in the meantime and what government should be

doing about it in the meantime. And one of the things that's happening, Anthony, is the cities are in a serious state of decline. I was HUD Secretary and Housing and Urban Development, so urban development primarily focused on cities. You know, cities are delicate creatures. And cities are either growing or they're dying. And a city can tip at any point. COVID, you mentioned COVID, COVID changed the world in ways we don't even understand. But one of the ways COVID changed the world is remote work, right? Whoever heard of a second year legal associate telling their boss, you know, I want to work from home two days a week. They would have said, fine, you can do that somewhere else. But remote work said you can work from anywhere. People come into the office less.

Businesses can be anywhere. This whole concept of mobility. So you don't have to be in a city anymore to do the job. You can be in the suburb or you can be a thousand miles away and just come in when you have to. So remote work has liberated people from having to be in the city. and now it becomes a question of whether or not I want to be in the city. And this new mobility happens at a time when you're seeing crime increase in these big cities. You're seeing homelessness increase in these big cities. You see, if anything, it's getting worse, not better. And on top of that, you pay more for the luxury of enduring the urban experience.

And a lot of people are saying, you know, I can move. I can shop states now. I can shop climate. I can move. I have flexibility. I have mobility. And I'm going to look at climate number one, cost, taxes, number two, and quality of life, crime, homelessness, number three. And cities are on the short end of the stick. And the death spiral for a city, Anthony, and you'll understand this with your business mind. When the city is, starts to lose the first people to go with the rich people because they're paying the most taxes. When they start to lose the rich people, they start to lose tax base. When the tax base goes down, they provide less services, the quality of the city goes down, more people leave. That's the death spiral, urban death spiral. And I think we have a number of cities in this nation that are very close to it. Bail reform. Let's talk about that for a second. Did we go too far in New York? And if we did, is there a way to bring it back? Or is it now impossible, given the legislature? Or what's your thought on that? Yeah, it's all politics all the time.

On both sides. You know, I want to know what happened and we have fun with this. But Republicans, Democrats, they were at one time reasonable people and you got a reasonable conversation. You know how there's an extreme conservative side on the Republican Party that, frankly, is at times irrational. And you have an extreme left on the Democratic part. And they're driving the dialogue on bail reform criminal justice. First, we reformed the bail laws and they had to be reformed. I mean, we were putting people in jail for one year, two years before they ever went before a judge because they couldn't make bail. That's not the way the system is supposed to work. But at the same time, dangerous people have to be off the streets.

Dangerous people have to be off the streets. That's called common sense. And the judge has to have the ability, the discretion, to do that. So, of course, you can just change the laws. We change the laws every year on almost everything. You know, no law is ever finished. The education law gets changed every year. The Medicaid law gets changed every year. Transportation gets changed every year. Criminal justice gets changed every year. You're constantly refining. You're constantly tweaking. So after a major overhaul, you do even more finer adjustments. It's not can you? Yeah, you can. It's do they want to? And with this far left, which is dominant in a lot of cities, Anthony, it's not just in New York. You have, you go to Los Angeles.

Let's go to San Francisco. You have this far left that is driving the Democratic Party, in my opinion, has frightened the moderates into silence. They don't want to speak up because, God forbid, they get targeted by this progressive activist wing. And on crime, on homelessness, and on taxes. And if on crime, defund the police, you know, it's so ironic. Progressive Democrats defund the police. You know who the victims of crime are? 70, 80 percent, black, brown, and poor people. I thought progressive Democrat, don't you care about the plight of black, brown, and poor people, and they're the victims of crime? So how can you be so cavalier

about not fighting crime? Taxes, they want to raise taxes. You keep raising taxes in these cities. You're going to be alone. You raise taxes in a city, Anthony. You do it on your calculator. I'll bet it costs revenue because more people will leave because of the tax. The highest earners, too, right? Governor, the highest earners have the flexibility to leave, right? They'll say, okay, no moss. I'm heading to Florida, Tennessee or Texas.

And I'm sorry, I can't afford. I don't want to afford this anymore. See, what I love about you is, I mean, you probably don't even remember this, but you said to me some one point that taxes are in exchange for, services. You're paying the government a fee so that they can do certain things for you, make you safe, make the roads workable, the traffic, the police officers, the community, also a safety net for people, or health care, and so forth. And if you dislocate the amount of taxes with the level of service, people will depart. They'll find other vendors for these services. So I guess there's two questions in

there. So let me just ask both of them at the same time. Number one, are we right about that? and are we at a tipping point? And then the second question is what you speak about in this great op-ed is the unfairness of the salt cap because the contribution that states like New York are making to the federal government versus what they're taking back from the federal government is woefully uneven. And the salt cap at $10,000 is actually really hurting middle-class people now. So first question, are we at a tipping point? Do we need to cut taxes in a state like New York or you think we're okay? And then the second question is, tell us about salt and the impairment and the relative unfairness of salt. Yeah.

I think cities are at a tipping point, Anthony, for the factors that you raised. They are more mobile post-COVID. The taxes are much higher in these cities than a lower cost state. And crime is the accelerant, I think, to the downward spiral. because people are frightened, literally. And then quality of life, homelessness, et cetera. So I think we're right on the cusp. I think cities should not raise taxes.

I think that adds insult to injury. I think they should be assuring citizens now that they get it. They should be assuring citizens that they understand the crime problem and that they're on top of it. But yes, I do believe we are at a very dangerous point. You have cities on the precipice, and then your point is right. the people who leave first are the wealthiest because they're paying the most to stay there. You then start to lose the tax base and then it's a spiral. Salt, salt is such a metaphor in so many ways with everything that is wrong with this whole darn government political system.

First of all, it was Trump's tax policy where he was being purely gratuitous. What Salt did, and it's technical, And that's why it's been hard to communicate, and it's not sexy. State and local tax deduction. That's solved. Forever, you paid city tax, state tax, federal tax. And your city tax, your local tax, your property tax, your state tax were deducted from your federal tax. So you paid $10 to the city, $10 to the state, you made $100.

You paid federal tax on $80. Trump, for pure politics, says I'm going to eliminate the deductibility, actually cap it at $10,000. That benefited Republican states at the cost of Democratic states, because the Democratic states tended to be the higher tax states, New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, California. It was an income transfer from Democratic states to Republican states. All of them are conservatives. Oh, you can't use the tax code. as a, you can't use the tax code as a transfer mechanism, redistribution. It was pure redistribution.

I'm taking the money from the Democrats. I'm giving it to the Republicans. That was his tax policy. The Democrats say at the time, this is a total outrage. And as soon as we are in office, we will fix it. That was three, four years ago. And nothing has been done. Nothing. So yeah, Trump should have never done. it in the first place. The Democrats should have changed it like they said they were going to do, like they promised they were going to do. The media should be covering this because it's a real topic besides the political garbage they like to focus on. Yeah, it's a little tedious, but you have a newspaper like Newsday for their readers, you're a Long Islander. They're paying the highest property taxes in the United States of America.

and they're no longer deductible. And if they were deductible, they'd be about 40% less. So these papers should be all over it. But they're not because it's another statement of the time. You know, they want to talk about politics and horse races and who's going to go to jail, blah, blah, blah. But if you want to talk about a silver bullet, if they finally repealed salt, it would lower taxes about 40%, Anthony. Just think about that. If I said to you or someone like you were teetering on the

edge, should I stay, should I move to Florida? What was my accountant say? If I said overnight, your taxes are going to drop 40%. You know, that would change your thinking. I mean, we need it. And they promised it. Well, I mean, you know, the other thing, and I want your reaction to this, When Trump was doing this towards the tail end of 2017, I still had a friendly relationship with him. He asked me my opinion. And I said, well, I think you're missing something here. These cities, these port cities, New York City, Philadelphia, pick these port cities on the

west coast, up the coast, in the northeast, even down the coast. These are the fountains of immigration, economic innovation. These are the economic engines for all of America. But unfortunately, these places need a safety net because, some indigent people are also coming in search of the American dream. And so what you're doing is by creating this salt tax cap, you're hurting these places, which will impair those cities, which will have a domino effect on the economic growth of the overall society. What's your reaction to that? Is that also a factor? You know, you were exactly right. You know, cities have

higher costs. The flip side is they are the economic engine of the nation. That's why, urban America, urban agendas have always been so important, not just because it's about the city, but it's about the country. So Trump was Trump and it was pragmatic and it was political and he pandered to the Republicans and he took money from the Democrats, shame on Trump, and then shame on the Democrats for not repealing it, which they promised. So shame on the system, Anthony, it's just another example where government doesn't do what they say they're going to do, and what they do complete is counterproductive. And then frankly, the press, that doesn't hold their feet to the fire. You know, I say politicians are only as good as the person on the other side of the net, right?

Tennis, you're only as good as the person on the other side of the net. On the other side of the net was the press, was journalism. And if they drop their racket, pardon the pun, then you're going to see the quality of government service go down. And I think that is what is happening. They cover the sensationalism. But, I mean, have they covered this salt issue, which is like a real issue to everybody in New York? Your tax is 40% higher? Well, I mean, so here we are.

I thought our generation was going to solve these things. I was like when I was a kid growing up 13, 14, 15, I was reading about our problems, stagflation, the gas crisis. You know, this is the stuff you and I grew up with. I was like, all right, we're going to grow up. We're going to get into these positions and we're going to solve these things. Have we, we as a generation, have we made these things worse, Governor? That's the crusher.

That's the crusher. That's what's in the pit of my stomach. The immigrant tradition, the Italian tradition, most religious. religions, Judaism, Tikun Olam, leave the place better than you found it. Make society, make the world better. My daughters are graduating business school. We're passing the baton to a new generation. I think it is worse today than when we were handed the baton. I think we're turning over a city, a state, a country that is weaker, has more problems than the country we inherited. And that's painfully said. You know, I'm not giving up yet, right? We're not in a box yet. They haven't closed the cover.

So we still have some life left. But if we had to pass the baton today, Anthony, I think it's in worse shape than it was when we took responsibility. Okay, so we agree on that. So why? then, sir, why is it worse? What did we do? Did we over promise? Did we overspend? Did we not understand that the democracy we live in forces a compromise? And we just decided that, you know, I'm right, you're wrong or you're right and I'm wrong. And we just, like Dr. Seuth became the north going and the south going Zaks, or we just smashed into each other. What happened where we're now scolding each other and we're now culture worrying each other and I got to stick a finger in your eye and own you. I got to own the lips or I got to do something radical to upset the Christian right. What the hell happened?

Yeah. You know, people tend to look at government. I don't think it's the government that created the problem. I think society created the problem. Yeah, I agree with that. 100%. So what happened to the society then that created that? We lost our sense of community. I think we lost in many ways the values that made this country and the principles that made this country, we lost our tolerance, we lost the sense of mutuality, we focused on our differences rather than the aspirational commonality of being an American. And that tension is pulling us apart. And once you are pulling a people apart, they get weaker because there was strength in unity. And we've never been more divided than we are now. And the politics is just a reflection of it. We can turn it around, but it's a very

different social message. It's a very different understanding of how we have to relate one to another. Because the politics, we're just looking in a mirror. And the ugliness that we see in politics, that's a reflection of the ugliness that's in society. Discover cool nights with a new mattress from Ashley. We've got the Best mattress brands under one roof like Seeley, Serta, Purple, Beauty Rest, Temporated, and Ashley's sleep. Plus get up to 60 months special financing on select in-store purchases made with your Ashley Advantage, synchronic credit card, with tons of styles and options to choose from. We've got you and your sleep covered.

Cool nights started Ashley, North Charleston and Mount Pleasant. Subject to credit approval. Minimum monthly payments required. Minimum purchase required. See Store for details. Oh, listen, we agree. Let's talk about our favorite place, okay, New York, right? We love New York or we're not going, you're not moving to Florida, are you, Governor?

No, sir. Okay, no, me either. You know, it's you, me and Spike Lee, we're going to shut the lights off on this place, right? We're never leaving. You know, I'm a New Yorker. Let's talk about this place. What makes this place so special and why should we not, even though maybe we have some setbacks and feel not so great about the city that we both love, what makes this place so special?

And why shouldn't people ever write this place off in terms of the Mecca, the beacon, the thing that it represents for our society? Yeah. It's a good point. And you're right, Anthony. Look, this city has gone up and down, you know. Since the 90s, we've had a relatively good stretch. And for many people, that's all they know. You get a little older, like us.

You remember the 70s. You remember the 80s. And the city was in really rough, rough shape. financially, economically, fiscally, and from a crime point of view, et cetera. So, yeah, we are going through a dip, but we've seen worse and the city will come back. Why does the city continue? This city is a magnet for the best in almost every area. If you want to be the best attorney, you want to come practice in Manhattan.

if you want to be the best theater actor, you want to be in New York theater. I think that's what New York has always been. We've been the bright light. We've been the magnet saying if you want to excel, if you want to be your best, come and be part of the best, and that is New York. And that is still happening. You know, you still have young people coming into the city with ambition. and energy and aspiration.

And, you know, they talk about, well, Florida, we lost 500,000 people in the state of New York. And Florida has had a tremendous influx. But let's remember, that's another factor of COVID. The normal trajectory was, when I was a kid, you were a kid, somebody's grandparents retired, they moved to Florida, right? You work here, you retired, you moved to Florida for the climate, basically. Yeah.

You wanted to get out of the cold. So that has accelerated because of COVID and costs, et cetera. But what makes New York, New York, that energy, that drive, that personality, the character, the chutzpah of New York, the toughness, the grittiness. I mean, that's who we are. It's our essence. I love it. Let's talk about who else we are, okay?

Because we have siblings, you and me. I've got siblings, right? You've got a couple of them, probably more than me. I'm going to read this word for word, okay? Don't react until I'm done reading it. Then I need to get your reaction and don't shoot the message. Okay, you ready? He's six foot half inch. I'm six two. He's about 200 pounds. I'm 230. He struggles to get off the couch. I could lift a Toyota off my chest. He hits a heavy bag. I hit people who hit back. He has a boat. I have a boat and I fish. He fishes with a white shirt.

I come back all bloody and with no shirt. He has a big dog that says he's so tough. It got beaten up by two months in his neighborhood. I have a chihuahua that kills anything. I'm not done. I got to keep going here. So those are the facts. So how does he handle being the perceived alpha,

but really being like, you know, half a step more than a bean bag? All right. So for listeners, because we both have siblings and we're both Italian. That's from Chris Cuomo, Andrew's younger brother. Okay, so go ahead, Andrew. What do you say to that as I sit my Starbucks and lean back at my chair?

Go ahead. Oh, I believe that is a pure forgery of Christopher's name. That was obviously written by some hyper-competitive, insecure, shaking, ego. I mean, really, that point. person has issues. So that would not be my brother, Chris, who was a very confident, well-adjusted gentleman. So I don't know who could have written that. Plus, it's all factually wrong, by the way. Everything, every fact is wrong. Okay. I got my suit here. I'm ready. You know, it's the Chris Cuomo show, you know? You have a question for him that I could fire at him just to, like, knock him off a step or no?

Well, knock him off a step. He is hard to knock off a step, as you know, because he will look confident, even when he has no idea what he's talking about. Right, right, right, right. Oh, he's got that steamroller shit going on, 100%. He can look right in the camera. He's got the diesel steamroller, no problem.

And he's just making it up. Right. Ask him this. Say, Chris, you're a member of the media, but you came from a family where you learn. about government. Why don't you talk about real issues here, Chris? You have time every night. Why are we talking about Trump still? Why are we talking about Biden? Why are we talking about Alvin Bragg? This is all theater. This is political theater. Why aren't we talking about

the real issue? Like I talked to your brother about the decline of the nation's cities, the urban peril. Why aren't you talking about that, Chris? Why did I have to go on your brother's show to have the only substantive conversation? So I'm going to bring it all up because I know it'll irritate the shit out of him, but let me tell you what he said about you at a serious moment. More? This is serious, and I want you to think about this, okay? Your brother Chris Cuomo said to me that you, Governor Andrew Cuomo, you hurt, you feel pain and you have a tremendous depth of emotion that fuels your service. You have a pathos for the poor. You have a need to see families

be successful. You have a ambition to help children rise to their greatest selves to be successful. And all of this has fueled your service. And he, believes, and I've got to ask you this as well, that you're still committed to public service because of this, that this is your internal clock mechanism is to feel this for other people and to go out and try to help them. What's your reaction to that? Yeah, I think there's a lot to that, Anthony. You know, what motivates you? And it goes back to the conversation we had before. Bottom line, you're supposed to leave the place better than you made it. When I was in my 20s, I started an organization to help the homeless.

And the name was Help One was the first facility. Mother Teresa, how do you help the poor of the world? You help one and then you help one. And after a while, you've helped many. So, yeah, what excites me is making a difference. It's not the politics. The politics is ugly and personal and nasty and counterproductive. But it is the means to the end.

The end is to get into government where you can actually do something. You know, you walk through that LaGuardia airport, that we lived with an embarrassment. It's a gleaming, it's a gleaming beautiful place now. It's a new airport, new Moynihan train station, new 2nd Avenue subway, more equitable funding for education than ever before. Minimum wage that actually lifted people, millions of people, out of poverty, free college tuition for the middle class. You know, that, you're touching people.

That's real. Well, I mean, think about the way you talk passionate about this. Is there another run, governor? Oh, I don't know. You know, I'm sort of one day at a time here, and I'm speaking to the moment and participating in the moment is important to me, and that's what I'm doing. And then we'll see what happens in the future.

Well, I, you know, I love your brother. Obviously, I love you as well. Who do you love more? Who do you love more, Anthony? That's my question. That's like what I say to my kids. I love my daughter, Amelia, the best. I got five kids.

I got four sons. Who do you think my favorite is? You both have outdoor plumbing. I probably love you equally. I probably love your sister the most. How's that? Okay, Maria. I love Maria the most.

Maria Cole. Maria Cuomo call. Yeah, that's a good answer. Yeah, that's amazing. All right. Between my brother and myself, Anthony, don't talk the question. I'm asking you one question. You ask me 500.

Yeah. Answer the question, sir. And don't be political. I love you the most. I love you the most. Was that so hard? No, no, I love you the most. I love you the most.

Don't worry. I won't tell him. No, he's going to hear about it. He's going to give me shit. But he's so brutal on me all the time. You know, he's like, it's so noxious. Okay, I got every one of my guests. I fire out five words and I need to get the reaction of the guest to these five words.

So it's like a raw. shot test, if you will. Family. Community. Mario. Missing him. Matilda. Pure sugar.

We're on Chris, so let's say Chris. I love him very much. Yeah, me too. I love your brother. He's a very special guy. The name Cuomo and the legacy of the Cuomo's. Doing the best they can to help others. I think there's something else in there if you don't mind me adding something.

And I've learned some of this from you and you've helped me. When I got my ass fire from the White House, you were one of the first calls to me. I don't know if you remember that, but I remember it. And when you're in a down period like that, you never forget that in your life. You took me to, where was your office, 605 third or something like that or six? And we had a cup of coffee together and you were serving Italian bischkalti and you were telling me, hey, this is going to pass and just relax. This is what happens in politics.

So there's another legacy there. It's about resilience and getting up off the mad and never given up and not taking the noise, listening for the signal, you know, and what the important parts of life are. And, you know, you're a good role model for people, Andrew. And I know your kids are watching. You know, when you left government, I know your kids were watching about the way you've handled yourself. And I just have to tell you that I have an enormous amount of love and respect for you for who you are as a person. Thank you.

Thank you, Anthony. Well, you know, we have tough times. Yeah, you had a tough time in the White House. I was working for the president. I had a tough time as governor of the greatest state in the nation. Think about the people who came before us, right? Tough times. They came from Italy, got on little ships, came here, didn't know the language.

Poor. Worked like beasts for decades. Amen. I always tell my kids that. Amen. Amen. I always tell my kids that, relax, okay? My father said to me when I got that job at Goldman, he said, hey, you're indoors.

you're at a direct sunlight and there's no heavy lifting. Don't ever complain about that job. Because he was outdoors in direct sunlight, lifting heavy objects his whole life, you know? Yeah. Well, sir, I hope you'll come back on Open Book. It's great to have the 56 governor of the state of New York. The title of your new op-ed, which I am going to post on our website and all of our social media, my own personal social media, America's unrecognized urban crisis,

and some of the suggestions of how we can fix those problems. Thank you for being on the show and thank you for writing such a great op-ed. Thank you. Thank you very much, Anthony, for what you do. Well, you just heard a fascinating conversation with Andrew Cuomo. He was right about so many things that need to happen in America. The philosophy not being about left or right, but really just practical common sense. What's right or wrong?

How can we make the system better? How can we provide for people a safety net in a fair way? How do we afford things in our infrastructure? infrastructure, our entitlement programs, but that also how do we manage our deficit spending, and then lurking out there always is the fight for crime and making the system fair. What I love about Andrew, frankly, is humanity. I'm not here to give criminals a pass by no means, but what I do know about a society is that if you give people great opportunity and you give them great abjudications, it becomes harder for them to want to do things nefarious or to steal. Usually

crime comes to neighborhoods where people feel desperate. And I think both Andrew and I know that. Now, you know, I love the brother rivalry between him and Chris. Now, let me tell you something, okay? Chris is going to be so pissed at me if he listens to this. But Andrew, because he's the older brother, he does such mental jujitsu on Chris, okay? Chris could probably snap me and Andrew over his knee because he's like a hulking guy with a lot of muscle. But he's the younger brother. Okay, So it's sort of like Charlie Brown with the football with Lucy. Andrew being Lucy, he's always out Jedi mind-tricking Chris. How piss will Chris be if he hears this podcast?

But at any event, I love both of them. I consider them great friends through thick and thin. And I'm wishing them both mighty comebacks. And I think it's well on its way for both of those people to have mighty comebacks. Okay, I had Governor Cuomo on. Okay, you remember Andrew Cuomo, right? Yeah. Uh-huh.

I had them on because I had Chris. Chris Cuomo on, you know, to have a little bit of a sibling rivalry. You know how that works, right? I don't. You never had a sibling rivalry with my brothers. I was very close to my two brothers. Okay. I was their little sister, and they treated me like I would pray they were wonderful.

What can I say? They were close to each other. They were totally different. Did I have a, did I have a sibling rivalry with David or no? On and off, but not really, because you were raised with by me, and I think that down Indeed, you love your sister and your brother and they love you. Yeah, I don't think it's a sibling rivalry. I'm just asking you.

Maybe on an off when we were young, you know, maybe young young. I don't believe. I don't believe. And, well, I was, you know, I was raised by an immigrant mother. And my mother used to say in an Italian blood is blood. Blood is blood. And everyone has a floor, no matter what. And that's how I was raised.

So I looked at my brothers. Like they were God to me. They really were. So I've known, I've known, Andrew, for over 20 years. Is that a long time or a short time? That's long enough to understand the personality, definitely. All right, but does that mean I'm getting old, ma, or you think I'm still young? Well, look at the mirror and look at yourself, and what do you think?

I think I'm still young. What do you think? I think you're young at heart forever. That's your personality, and you look younger because you have to get your skin. It's your side of the family, right? That's the reason I look young, right? Absolutely. Their most days have rough skin.

They have, you know, unfortunately, they were born like their father, most of them. And they have like a pebbly skin, which is a hard skin. And you age funny, no matter if you're in the son or you're not in the son. All right. But anything I got bad I got from dad's side of the family, right? But anything I got good was from your side, right? Or no? Well, I don't see anything bad in you, so I'm very appreciative.

I don't see anything bad. very kind by my mother. My mother had a kindness. She had a person that her husband wasn't too aggressive, and her son got in trouble, and she needed $10,000 that my mother gave it to her. And then she went to a factory to work at a chicklet factory, and she accumulated $10,000,

and she wanted to give it back to my mother, and my mother told her she would tear it up because she needed it to feed her children and to take it because we had money. And they were argued about, And forth, but she definitely took it. And my mother didn't care. And you have that in your personality.

Of course, I try to give money to people that need it. I've always been like that. Very giving, loyal, wholesome type of personality. And I think that is definitely inherited from my mother, not my father's people. My father's people are tight. I can't blame the tightness on the few people and the family from the scaramuchis or someone else. But I'm not tight, right, ma? I'm not tight.

I'm not tight. And Susan's not tight Right David has a tightness still But everyone's different Well he's very tight And Harry can feel is very tight You know

My Uncle Sal was a giver when he had It gave you kids $5 a day for lunch You coming tomorrow Of course Do I not show up every Saturday Or no Yeah of course All right I'll be there

Are you going away I never stay long enough right ma You want me to sleep over I would like all night I can see it permanently. All right, Mom. All right, I love you. I'll see you later.

Love you, baby. All right. All right. I am Anthony Scaramucci, and that was open book. Thank you for listening. If you like what you hear, tell your friends, and make sure you hit follow or subscribe wherever you listen to your podcast. While you're there, please leave us a rating or review.

If you want to connect with me or chat more about the discussions, it's at Scaramucci on Twitter or Instagram. You can also text. me at plus one 917, 90929-29-996. I'd love to hear from you. I'll see you back here next week.