Open Book with Anthony Scaramucci - Why Great Teams Fail And How The Yankees Keep Winning - Andy Martino

Episode Date: March 24, 2026

I'll be honest with you, I'm a Mets guy, I owned a piece of that team for years, but even I can't deny that the Yankees are the Google of baseball, and today we're going to find out exactly how they keep doing it. My guest is award-winning MLB journalist Andy Martino, whose new book The Yankee Way pulls back the curtain on the Brian Cashman era and reveals that everything you thought you knew about that dynasty was wrong. Andy Martino has written about sports, culture, and entertainment, and has covered Major League Baseball for more than a decade. A former staff writer at the Philadelphia Inquirer and New York Daily News, he is currently a reporter and analyst covering MLB for the SNY network in New York. Although I'm a massive Mets fan, I must admit Andy's book about the Yankees is wonderful. Get The Yankee Way: The Untold Inside Story of the Brian Cashman Era today. Anthony Scaramucci is the founder and managing partner of SkyBridge, a global alternative investment firm, and founder and chairman of SALT, a global thought leadership forum and venture studio. Pre-order my next book, All the Wrong Moves: How Three Catastrophic Decisions Led to the Rise of Trump, out on the 17th of September in the UK and the 22nd of September in the US: ⁠https://linktr.ee/anthonyscaramucci⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Okay, when I sell my business, I want the best tax and investment advice. I want to help my kids, and I want to give back to the community. Ooh, then it's the vacation of a lifetime. I wonder if my out of office has a forever setting. An IG Private Wealth advisor creates the clarity you need with plans that harmonize your business, your family, and your dreams. Get financial advice that puts you at the center. Find your advisor at IG Private Wealth.com.

Instacart knows that some people go bananas about getting the perfect, well, banana. Some want them green, some want them ripe, some want them ready right when they hit their doorstep. But with Instacart's preference picker, available at most retailers, you can choose to get your groceries just the way you like. That means perfectly ripe bananas, deli meat sliced just the way you want, and avocados that aren't still hard as a puck in the third period. So don't cross your fingers and hope for the best. Download the app and get groceries just how you like with Instacart.

Visit BetMGM Casino and check out the newest exclusive. The Price is Right Fortune Pick. BetMDM and GameSense remind you to play responsibly. 19 plus to wager. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connects Ontario at 1-866-531-2,600 to speak to an advisor.

Free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming, Ontario. What happens to the human beings? being that makes the human being feel romantically linked to baseball. There's just something aesthetically beautiful about it. And there's something about the flight of the ball in the air against the night sky. There is a thrill to that. I also think on another level that's not as romantic, but which keeps our interests,

is that there's always more happening on the field that we don't understand than that when we do understand. There's always more to learn. And I have access to these people every day. But if I can talk to a Garrett Cole or Francisco Lindor, it's about what they do, they're going to say things that I have no idea what they're talking about. and I have to go back and study and learn more. There's so much going on.

It's such a complex game that it keeps your intellectual engagement too. And again, there's just a beauty to it. I don't know if you know Jeffrey Loria. About 10 years ago, I, through a mutual friend, was watching. A big game with him and his seats behind the Marlins dug out at the city field, made about a decade ago. And it's a similar player. There's a fly ball left field, but this one was an F7.

It died on the track. And he looks over to me and the other person we were with and put like misty eyes and just says, it's a beautiful game, isn't it? And I thought, boy, if someone in his 70s who's at the top of the business side this can still feel that way. It must be a pretty profound feeling. So joining us now on Open Book is Andy Martino. He's an award-winning journalist covering Major League Baseball for over a decade, even though he looks 13 years old. Martino, I got to tell you, you look great, okay? I need your skin care and product regime. Well, thank you. I'm 43. All right. You're looking

great. Okay, you're looking about 13. Okay, so the Yankee way, the untold inside story of the Brian Cashman era. And I consider Brian Cashman a good friend of mine, actually. My wife and I love Brian Cashman. Every time I make my way to the stadium, I try to hang out with him. Full disclosure, I'm also very good friends with Chris Ahmaud,

who I think you know Dr. Ahmaud has been their doctor for many years. And so I, and I'm a meth fan, but I am a Yankee lover. I'm not an envious. I am envious. Let me restate that. I'm not a Yankee hater. I do have tremendous amounts of Yankee envy, particularly last night when I'm watching them play.

They just got a, you know, they're still the U.S. Steel. Now, you know, for my young listeners, U.S. Steel was one of the greatest corporations in American history in the mid-50s. The Yankees were winning one championship after the next, and they were the U.S. Steel,

or maybe there's the Google of baseball today. pick the greatest company. They're the company. And you have done a brilliant job in this book, by the way, of explaining what the Yankee way is, what the culture is. But before we get there, Andy, I want you to tell us why this love affair with sports and why this love affair with baseball for Andy Martina. Well, thank you for the compliments.

Thank you for having me. That's an interesting question with a lot of depth. You know, I remember being nine years old watching the 1989 World Series that Battle the Bay A's Giants that was disrupted by the earthquake. And that was the age where there was something about being allowed to stay up late enough to watch a World Series game, being alone in the living room, taking it in. It's just in that inexplicable way of the things that were passionate about. It just got in my bones, and I still feel that way. I was at Yankees Dodgers last night, and I still felt romantic about it. then when I was much older, trying to become a writer, I drifted toward this being the topic,

the only topic that I could write about well. I mean, if I could write about something this effectively with about something with a broader audience, whether it's the NFL or politics or what have you, I maybe would, but this is just the thing that I feel like I understand and am passionate about the most. And it's been that way since I was nine years old, really. In that way, it's sort of mysterious that things we gravitate to. But it's a strong feeling. So you said romantic. And if you love baseball, that word resonates. It certainly resonates with a man like me. And so what is it? I can't figure it out myself, but I'm addicted to baseball. If I ever retired, I'd want to go to 100 games. I have it all planned out. It would be 30 different

ballparks, three games each in each ballpark. And then obviously the last game at Yankee Stadium, the Cathedral of baseball. But why? What happens to the human being that makes the human being feel romantically linked to baseball? Well, there's a pastoral aspect that's been talked about a lot, right? And I also think there's just something aesthetically beautiful about it. Judge's home run, last I were speaking on Monday last night was Sunday night baseball.

Judge hits a home, a towering home run in the eighth inning to left field. And there's something about the flight of the ball in the air against the night sky. I know, it's sort of, this would be purple pros if I were to write it down, but since you're asking, there is a thrill to that. I also think on another level that's not as romantic, but which keeps our interests is that there's always more happening on the field that we don't understand than when we do understand. There's always more to learn. And I have access to these people every day. But if I can talk to a Garrett Cole or Francisco Lindor or whoever else about what they do, they're going to say things that I have no idea what they're talking about. and I have to go back and study and learn more.

There's so much going on. It's such a complex game that it keeps your intellectual engagement, too. And again, there's just a beauty to it. I don't know if you know Jeffrey Loria or if you guys have run in the same circles at all. So I was about 10 years ago, I, through a mutual friend, was watching, you know what a romantic he is about baseball, if you know him. He's the owner of the Marlins. He was the owner of the Marlins at the time. And I was watching a game with him in his seats behind the Marlins dug out at City Field, maybe about a decade ago.

And it's a similar player. there's a fly ball left field, but this one was an F7. It died on the track. And he looks over to me and the other person we were with with like misty eyes and just says, that's a beautiful game, isn't it? And I thought, boy, if someone in his 70s who's at the top of the business side of this can still feel that way, it must be a pretty profound feeling. Yeah, well, I, listen, I agree with you. I'm a diehard fan. I owned a piece of the Mets for many years. I ended up having a sell to one of my very close friends, Steve Cohen. I went to City Field. We almost got no hit, I think, by the Braves a few weeks ago.

Yeah, I was there. And, and, uh, and, J.D. Martinez, I've hit the home run. Thank God. And the two outs in the bottom of the ninth, but, but I was, I was in Steve's box with him. It's quite a box. Quite a box. Probably the nice in the, in the majors, actually. But, and by the way, Steinbern's box, very nice, but it's just a different feel from a, uh, aesthetic point of view. But, but my thing about it, I guess, the reason I'm bringing it up in this way is, the inside information. Who's feeling what and why?

Why the pitcher is pitching off of one part of the rubber versus another part of the rubber depending on who he's pitching to. The scouting report on the hitters, where the pitcher knows is the weak spot for that hitter. And that weak spot could change depending on if that hitter's streaking or not streaking. And you and I could have a in-depth technical discussion

about baseball that could last six hours. and it could be related to one inning of the game, positions of the players in the field. You know, are you going to hold the runner or are you going to let them steal? You know, all the different things that go into this. And so for me, I have this love affair with baseball, which is why I was gravitated towards your book. I read your book in one sitting. Oh, wow. I gave it to my trainer who reached out to you on Twitter and you were nice enough to.

Yeah, I didn't realize. Yeah, that was my trainer, Ray Solomon. And actually, if I'm being totally with no fake news, I think he was reading it simultaneously to me. I suggested it to him. And then he told me that he reached out to you on Twitter, which gave me the idea to reach out to you on Twitter. Okay. So let's go to Brian Cashman for a second. Okay.

You start out, first page of the book, the story that is always told about the Yankee. is wrong. And then you say, well, why don't I try to get it right? Okay. So what was wrong? You obviously got it right in this book, but let's go to what was wrong first. And then let's talk about the Yankee way. Yep. Well, that's obviously the kind of statement that sends off alarm bells in a reporter, journalist's brain, right? Well, wrong. Well, what's right? What do you think is right? Let's dig into that. And Brian, as you know, since you know him, has great stories and insights that he shares off the record. And certain reporters he's known for a long time are no different.

And that's one of the things he would always say. And you always want to learn more about that. And he wasn't always necessarily in the mood to elaborate. But I ultimately got to a straight answer for that in the reporting of this book, which is when he says wrong, he means that he feels like the wrong people have gotten all the credit for all the Yankee success, probably in particular to the Yankee dynasty. And that very important people have. have been left out.

Anytime there's a documentary or a telling or what have you about the Yankee dynasty, it's Joe Tori, Derek Jeter, the Corps Four, maybe G. Michael, the legendary GM and Scout, and Cashman feels that Michael deserves a lot of credit. But there's a whole group of people that were gone by the time the dynasty really started. Bill Livesey, who was a player development executive and Scout, who in the 70s and 80s basically invented the Yankee way. And as you said, we'll get into what that is on a more technical level, I'm sure, and a bit. But somebody who really invented the philosophies that the Yankees still go by and built their dynasty on, there was a Buck Showalter, who is a known name in baseball, of course, but who was the manager that got them right to the doorstep.

He was gone after the 1995 season. And there were a few others, Lukashman just believes don't get enough credit when a few people came in when they were ready to win and enjoyed the fruits of it. One of the most surprising things that Cashman said to me in our many interviews for this book was when he said, you know, the beginning of the end of the Yankee dynasty came in the year 1995, which is a pretty surprising year to choose when you think they hadn't won their first championship of that run yet. But his point was the people that I mentioned were all fired, demoted, sent elsewhere or whatever on George Steinbrenner's whims by the 96th championship. And they weren't able to enjoy what they had built firsthand in the case.

Cashman at that point, he knew it was only a matter of time until things weren't as good with the Yankee dynasty because the people who built it, the talent who built it, and the front office, the scouts, managers, coaches were gone. So that's what he meant by wrong. That that is, that story's never acknowledged. Okay, well, you're fairly in depth about it. And so let me start with this. George Steinbrenner, the very famous owner of the Yankees is banned from baseball. Did that help or hurt the Yankees in the Yankee way? It certainly helped. And this is probably the part of the story that's been told prior to my book coming out and that Gene Michael was then able to hold on to players like Bernie Williams, Andy Petit, Mariano Rivera, who Steinbrenner likely would have traded. And in fact, tried to get Bernie Williams traded many times. And the Yankees had the chance to do baseball operations. You know, George Steinbrenner was a great recruiter.

He was a great closer of deals. He's obviously not without his attributes that helped them win championships. But if you look at Yankee Myth versus Yankee Reality, he's reputed to have built the 70s dynasty, saved it from the CBS ownership. But a look at Ella's rosters were built show that he inherited Greg Nettles, Ron Guidry, Thurman Munson. And to his credit, he recruited Reggie Jackson, a catfish hunter, finish it off. That's fine. In the 90s, he's suspended. Again, baseball ops can do his thing.

They can hold onto the prospects that Gene Michael and his people believe are worth holding on to. and then Steinbrenner comes back. And maybe he did have a quality where he could put his foot on the gas where it was time to win now. And that was what he contributed tonally in the organization. But frankly, the Yankees built both of those winning eras under Steinbrenner's watch when he was not there, would be it suspension or that he hadn't arrived on the scene yet. Okay.

So I have a theory that I want to test on you and I want you to react to it. It's just my observation of being a professional sports league fan for 55 of the 60 years. that I've been on the planet. A good sports owner lets the operations people run the sports team. Okay. Bob Kraft is an example of that. Okay. Anywhere where Lou Lamarillo went,

who was a phenomenal GM of hockey, you let him run the team. He'll get you to the playoffs and probably build you a Stanley Cup. Owners that get involved in the process, okay? that would include some of our New York owners, which I won't name any of them because I like going into these places. I don't need my face recognized. I understand. Okay.

And so you've got meddling owners. Yeah. Okay. And so the question then is, am I right about that? I think it's an excellent point. I think obviously these management dynamics are somewhat situational and that Steve Cohen, who we both know, is smart enough to be asking some of the right questions. of his people and probably contributing in a positive way. But with David Stearns in place and Scott Havens and business ops, less public,

Cohn, Steve is taking a step back from micromanaging. So, I mean, look, I'm close to Steve. And I would say this to you, my observation, that he's totally like that. Maybe he wasn't like that day one. Right. He's trying to find the right people. He's got the right people now. That's right.

And his attitude is, you got this. I'm going to watch the team. You need my advice or help. I help you, but you've got to run it the same way he let somebody run a P&L inside of his organization, you know, 422. I agree with you. I've seen that happen too as he now feels like he has the right people in place. And that supports your theory that micromanaging from an ownership level is not the way. But like I said, with Steve, he has things he can contribute because he's such a quick study.

George Steinbrenner had that recruiting and charm that he can contribute. But by and large, I completely agree with you. and that's something that's forgotten about George Steinbrenner as he's been deified late in life in his life, the Yankees had a lot of success. And Hal Steinbrenner, I was surprised by this quote, told me in his book interview here, people forget that my father was not well-liked at all in the 80s,

like at all. And that micromanaging was clearly the reason why. I mean, there's so many different examples of things that just wouldn't fly today in New York baseball. It's 1 a.m. in the press room of Yankee State. stadium in 1980, whatever. And Gene Michael's the manager and George walks in and says, no, he's not, sticks his scout, Clyde King is the manager, Billy Martin's going to the broadcast booth. And, you know, a month later, it was something different. It was just chaos because he was emotional about the result

of a game. And he did that for decades. And that wasn't a positive for the Yankees. And I say that, having not been there for a good chunk of it, because everyone I talked to who was there felt that it was a negative and not a positive toward Yankee's success. And it went all the way. into cashman finally took over a full control of baseball ops after the 05 season and a year prior to that he had Vladimir Guerrero signed who could have gone in the Hall of Fame as in a Yankee hat and George Stimer said oh no I met with Gary Sheffield in Tampa we're doing chef instead it's like when Sheffield was a great player himself but you know that's no way to run a business probably so I do agree with you that those were not the the best qualities of of his stewardship

of the team and the executives that succeeded like Gene Michael and Cashman had to overcome that. Okay. So Cashman's got this interesting story. You point out of the book, he serves as a bat boy to the Dodgers. He lost money gambling. His father becomes friends with Steinbrenner. Tell us the rest of the story. That's right. So John Cashman, Brian's father, was, is a Hall of Famer in the harness racing world. He was a really big deal there and he dealt with George Steinbrenner in that. capacity. So that's how Brian was able to get in the door. He did lose money gambling down at one of a track that John Cashman and Steinbrenner both were involved in in South Florida. And he needs to borrow money from the PR guy at the track who says, hey, I can get you an internship with the Yankees because

Cashman was a college baseball player at the time. So that's, that is how he got in. And as soon as he was in the door, Brian Sabian, who himself was probably a future Hall of Fame executive, went to the Giants won three championships. At the time, as a Yankees executive said, Cashman was a person from Means. You knew that, but he didn't act like that. He was a look, listen, speak, intern. And he took it all in, and he was quiet and as inscrutable as he can be today.

You know him, he can be very fun, but he can also be very, very guarded and observant. And from all accounts, he brought that into, as a 19-year-old, he brought that into the Yankee offices and impressed them. And George Steinbrenner, for all his micromanagement, clearly saw in Cashman as he saw in Gene Michael. They did of all the people that he hired and fired, those two were keepers. There was something about those guys. And he let them push back and he let them argue. And he didn't do that with everybody.

And Cashman did impress not only the boss, but other baseball ops executives pretty much from the moment he walked in the door. I mean, he's a tremendous guy. He's a total professional. all, explain how a guy can work 25 years in the Yankee organization with the Steinbrenners. And obviously, George Steinberg dying in 2010, 14 short years ago. I didn't he not get fired over that period of time. Well, it's probably, it's a great question. Or not quit, which he almost did a number of times.

How do you survive, period? And I think part of it is what I just said in that George Steinbrenner and now how must have that instinct for, boy, this guy, I mean, they've had a winning record every year for 30 years. You better, if you're going to blow that up, you better be really careful about that. And so it's the success. It's a results business and they have been posting results year in and year out, even if their fans want another championship sooner. they've had a winning record for literally more than three decades straight. So that's a highlight of why he's been able to stay. But also he's agile.

He doesn't really have, like intellectually agile, he goes with the times. He's always recalibrating. You know, what is the industry doing? What do I want of that? What do I don't like of that? He's, oh, it's a very dynamic process where they're executives or you can point to and say, this is his philosophy. And he doesn't really have that so much as he's always intellectual.

curious about where things are going, and he's always current. And that helps. And he's also just tough. He's got a thick skin. I asked Brian why he wanted the job, and they originally offered it to him. He's 30 years old in 1998, early 98. Bob Watson, the veteran-respected championship-winning GM, at that point, is hiding in his office every day, watching soap operas ordering takeout, because every time he'd pick up

the phone or walk out into the hallway, George is probably screaming at him. And he quits. He can't take it anymore. And like, why would Cashman want that? Why in the world would you want to replace that guy? And he just sort of shrugged when I asked him that. And he said, uh, I just figured I was raised in this environment. I was uniquely equipped to handle it. And he's right about that.

Dave, the Steinbrenners value him for the reasons I've stated. But he also can handle it. And he, he, he, he, the loyalty goes both ways there. Well, you know, I love him. I think he's one of the consummate professionals in, in major league baseball. You gave him up a little bit, though, Mr. Martino. You told us he has a burner account. Got a Twitter burner account that checked in on the fans.

Do you think some of the fan criticism bothers him or he's just using that burner account for a biometric pressure reading? Did you see, I'm sure you're aware of the GM meetings last year when he kind of unloaded and dropped some F bombs and defended his people in his process? Of course. I knew that was building up for some time because now. I think if you're someone who thinks you do a pretty good job,

the objective facts support that you do a pretty good job, and everyone's telling you you suck all the time. He's the thick skin, but that would be annoying after a while. You know, at 2022 ALCS, they're in the final four. They got sweat by the Astros. It was ugly. But they're there, and it's like Fire Cashman. At that point, it must have bothered him,

although he would be loath to really open up about that, but I do know that he doesn't look at the burner account anymore. There's a TV. I'm sure you've been in his office if you hung out with him at the stadium. There's a TV on the wall. If you went in there a couple years ago, his MLB network, yes, SNY. Now it's like CNN or whatever. He's trying to do his job now while tuning out the noise more intentionally than he did even a few years ago.

So, sure. I mean, look, I'm a pretty good reporter and people tell me on Twitter all day that I suck. And I'm fine, but it's annoying. So I'm sure he had the same experience. Well, I mean, I'm going to give you a lesson from politics, Martino. Please do. Shout off your Twitter notifications. Yeah.

Okay. And tweet and read all the other things out there on Twitter except for the responses to your tweet. How about that? That's a good call. I never read that stuff. Get into the habit of doing that. And because, you know, look, those, I mean, hey, I mean, what your grandmother told you is correct.

What other people think of you, Marit. is none of your business, okay? So just forget it. Put it by the wayside. That's a good. Cashman has learned that over the years. And I would say that's helped him surviving the job after. He thought about leaving after 22 in the time I just mentioned.

And he resigned a loyalty of the family. Judge is a free agent. You're not going to leave Hal on the Lurfs to deal with that a GM. There's a lot of reasons. But part of that time started with like a turn. He made this great acquisition of Soto. Hopefully the team can keep, keep Soto in place. What a great one-two combination.

had a falling out of Joe, Tori. Did they patch it up? Not. I mean, they say the right things, but, and they're not at war with each other or anything. And Tori in his role with the, with MLB for years, he and Cashman dealt with one another professionally. But it feels like a divorce there where two people were quite close in the 90s. Cashman said Tori was like a second father to me and disconnects arose over the years.

They drifted apart. There were some conflicts. There was a falling out that was literally over the situation I described at length in the book would be tough to summarize, but had to do with the trust that Cashman felt that he lost and Tori and Ron Guidry, the pitching coach at the time over the pitch counts that they were reporting, pitchers in spring training. And Tori felt like he was being spied on and they had a blow up and a falling out. Sure, they patched it up.

But it seems to me more like a divorce where you're civil years later than like a deep relationship at this point. All right. Listen, I like both of those men a great deal. I have a lot of respect for Joe. I had Verducci and Joe. Of course, Verducci wrote the Cubs way. We now have the Yankee way, the Cardinals way.

But Verducci, I had him interview Joe Tori and Bobby Valentine on the 20th anniversary of 9-11. It's great. It's got the rebirth of New York baseball at that very critical time. in New York and that tragic time. Okay, so let's go to Jeter and Arod and managing both of them. How bad was that? And by the way, I have heard from several Yankees that will remain nameless here who believe firmly that Arod costs them more than one championship during the Arod era.

Do you believe that to be true? Well, that's a tough thing to quantify, but if players believe that, I wouldn't tell that specific thing, but I think that the dynamic was a big part of why they were really good teams in the regular season that just weren't quite winning teams and certainly not in October through that decade of the 2000s. It was really difficult for their teammates to be around those two sometimes in the Cold War between them. So tell me about that. Do you think that Cold War lives on on the Fox broadcast? I tell you, Yankee people are fascinated by the fact that their colleagues now on Fox. that it's almost funny to them.

And what's interesting to them about is the first time that Jeter has come in on a team that Alex already had and how that changes the power dynamic. I think that they've both matured to some extent. Jeter has made peace with Cashman, as you read in the book. Yep. And I think he's older now. He's been more reflective. He has a family.

So I'm sure it's fine now. But back in the 2000s, there was a lot of tension surrounding that dynamic from a lot of different angles. There was Cashman telling Jeter, you need to be the captain of everyone. You need to make Alex feel more welcome. That being a bridge too far for Jeter. Teammates feeling that tension. There were teammates that were fiercely loyal to Jeter's leadership style. Others that frankly by that time felt they didn't know him that there was a bit of a class system in the clubhouse.

If you'd won with this in the 90s or if you hadn't, Cashman would again say, you're everyone's cats and you have to be inclusive to everyone. And that would become a building tension between those two. Some people thought Alex was a phony. Some people thought he was a mentor. It was a lot for everybody. And it's hard to find agreement on this whole thing. Since you're a baseball aficionado, there's a foul ball, Yankees versus the Red Sox. The third basement is meandering, but the shortstop and the captain of the team is running full blast into the stands.

So the third baseman closer to the ball meandering, the captain jumps into the stands, fractures his cheekbone to catch the ball. Do you remember that play? Oh, I sure do. It's an iconic Jeter moment. I haven't really thought about it from the third baseman being closer angle. It's a good point.

But he wasn't moving. He wasn't moving on the ball. Do you think maybe he was being a good teammate and trying to give Jeter his iconic moment? I'm kidding. You think so? Yeah, no, I think he's. I think he's focused on Alex.

I think that's the problem. You know, and I think that I think Alex has matured a lot since then, though. I'm not saying that he hasn't. And I want them to get along. God bless. It's just curious that, you know, it's interesting. You can have the stats, but if you're not a great teammate, particularly at that time, it could be costly to the team.

And you still get 100%. And you still get people who were there, sources that I had for the book that were there at that time, who were on Team A-Rod and Team Jeter. very different perspectives over who is the me guy, who is the team guy. A-Rod's the one at 8.30 in the morning in spring training, getting young party animal, Robinson Canoe, out to take grounders. You taught him some discipline and helped him. But then there's the situation you just mentioned. Then there's this many flubs and public, ridiculous things that A-Rae got involved in. So two complex people. You needed a book length to really dig into it. I'll tell you that.

Do you remember what Steve Phillips, the former GM of the New York Mets, said about A-Rod? Well, he said it would be 24 plus 1, right? Yeah. Yeah. It would be a team of 24 plus 1. That's right. Therefore, he wasn't interested in signing A-Rod. Do you think it was a team of 24 plus 1 during A-Rod's tenure with the Yankees?

I, the way it was described to me by players there was that it was less that but more just completely fragmented. Like, the media would be a lot. in the clubhouse post game and the second we left, Jeter would go this way, A-Rod would go this way, Giambi would go this way, Metsuie would go this way, and there wasn't camaraderie at that time. And so it was almost like one and one and one and one and one and one, with all that A-Rod drama and A-Rod slash Jeter drama kind of hanging over everyone also. But it just wasn't a cohesive group by that time, 0-3, 04, and after.

So I've read the Yankee way. I'm going to read it again, actually, because I thought it was that good. Well, that's nice. And now that I've read the Yankee way, I'm the GM of the Yankees. Do I sign Juan Soto, Andy Martino? I think you have to. I think that. And what is, okay, so now you're my career counselor.

You're my life coach. I'm the Yankee GM. Mr. Andy Martino, what do I got to pay Juan Soto to stay with the Yankees? Well, Otani got like a fake $700 million, right, where it was all deferred and not real, however you call it. I'm a writer. You're a money person more so than I am. Present day value. Is that the term? Yeah. Yeah. So you probably have to get closer to that number in present day dollars with Scott Boris.

His agent doesn't do a lot of that deferral kind of stuff. I'm not saying you have to get seven, but you're certainly well over 550 in the six range. But this is a player with his age. We're talking eight years, 550? I think you'd have to go. And remember how teams like to stretch out deals now to get around the average annual value for the CBT, the luxury tax. So I think you could be looking at something like in the 10 to 15 year range to lower the annual value at, I mean, I haven't done the AAV on a calculator yet with this. But if you're talking 6, 650, something in that range at the 10 to 15 year range. Something, but that's where the conversation would start. He's paid 70 million a year for his active play. But he gets, he gets it spread out over that period of time. O'Tani liked to look. And he's paid. He's paid 70 million a year for his active play. He's paid. He gets it spread out over that period of time. O'atani liked to look. He's. He's. He like to look. He's. He's. He's lower the...

Right, without defer value with a longer term. Scott Boris did that was Zander Bogartson and Bryce Harper, two of his clients. So it would be something like that. But his skill set is the Yankee Way. It's the long at bat. It's the on-base percentage. The only thing he doesn't have is the defense. And that's why he's...

Aaron Judge is more of an ideal Yankee Way right fielder with the arm and better range. But Soto's clearly we've seen as a franchise changing player. Yeah. There's a lot of hope among... He's working on it, though. He's working on the East. He's a good arm. You know, he's working on it.

I think the thing about Soto that I love, he can play in New York. A hundred percent. Okay, he's ready to play in New York. Some of these guys show up in New York, they get a little nervous, you know. They choke in New York, not this guy. Nope. This guy can smash the ball and he's got the right attitude for the Yankees. I hope they resign him.

Well, let me ask you a question then because you know Steve. I know Steve, so people ask me this, and I cover him. Hal's got to resign him. That's just the way it is from a Yankee perspective. but Steve has more resources. Do you think that he'll be as aggressive as, I mean, I'm asking your opinion, not your knowledge, but you know the guy.

I never want to speak for Steve, but I will say this, okay? Aaron Judge was a Yankee. To sign Aaron Judge without letting the Yankees have, in other words, if the Yankees said, look, we're going to play Aaron Judge a million dollars a year for 10 years, here's your contract, 10 years, $10 million, it's a different story.

You know, I think if Steve came in there and said, okay, he made this, I'm going to give him 10 more than that, you know, for each year of the contract. I don't think Steve wanted to be that guy. It doesn't represent what Steve is. 100%. He's a fan. He's a lover of the city of New York. And Steve wants to bring happiness to this city, at least the portion of the city. city and frankly all the city. I think after 9-11, if you're a true baseball fan in this city,

you may root for one of the two teams, but I don't know many people now after 9-11 that roots against the other team. I don't. That's a good point. I made it, I made a promise to myself after 9-11. I will never root against a New York team unless it happens to be playing my New York team. Other than that, I root for these teams. It's part of being in the spirit of New York I think Steve represents that. So you'd have to be in a ballpark zone, which is away from the market, and which means that the Yankees really don't want to sign the guy. I don't think he wants to be in that fist fight with the Yankees.

It's just not in his long-term plans as he perceives himself and how he actually is. He's a great fan owner, if you will. The reason why the MET fans are going to stay with Steve Cohen, he wants to win as badly as they do. And this poor guy, okay, I can verify this because I text with him almost every day. This poor guy watches every inning. And you know what SariSat? You know what SariSapp watches every inning of a MET game, Martino? That would be me.

Okay? You and Steve's going. Yeah, it's terrible. It's therapy, therapy, although yesterday we had a good end. Okay, so let's go to the last part of this. But before I get there, Judge and Cashman are okay now? Pretty much. I mean, Cashman does not feel that it's his job to have friendly relationships with the players. And he and Judge did get a little jammed up with each other and sideways in the negotiation.

And Judge was open about being upset. The Cashman announced the Yankee offer publicly. They have a productive relationship. Judge has a really strong relationship with Hal Steinbrenner. is an important voice. I want to say in the front office almost that he's really listened to. He and Cashman aren't really doing like family vacations together or anything, but I'd say it's professional and respectful.

And I'm, Aaron's a great leader too. So Cashman appreciates that. I have never met Aaron, Judge. He is my kind of guy. Derek Peter, I obviously know well. Okay. I'm down to the five famous words for my podcast.

I'm going to say the word, you're going to react. You can give me a minute a second. a word, a paragraph. You ready? I say the word baseball. You say what? Writing. Because that's what I do. That's what I love most about it. Amen. I think stratomatic. Is that weird of me? Stratomatic. No, it shows your depth of knowledge of the details of the game. How about that? Yeah. I've been playing stratomatic as 1971. And you saw that's where Gene Michael learned on base percentages, value on base percentage was through playing stratomatic. Yeah, well, I'm bringing up.

You know, I, you know, so, so Hal Richmond and his son are friends of mine, Adam Richmond. You're looking at somebody that owns a piece of stratomatic baseball. That would be made. How about that? That's cool. I bought into it during the financial crisis. I wanted to keep that sucker going.

Okay. That's cool. Okay. Astros. Cheaters. So there's really no, there's really no astro way, right? Well, there was one. Yeah, the astro way by Bernie Madoff and Sam Bankman Free.

right? It's one of those kind of scandals, 100% and it's more far reaching than people realize they were cheating in 19 as well, not just 17. Okay, they still cheating? No, different administration. No, they're not still cheating. I mean, her, her Carlos Beltran, no. Oh, it certainly did. And he is a great person. I'm glad for his sake and for the Mets that he's back in the Mets fold in the front office. But it was a, that was a hard one for him because he was unfairly cast as the ringleader when in fact, he was not. Yeah, well, I mean, that's what happens. You know, when you're next to the dogs that have the fleas, you get fleas.

Okay. That's how it happened to him. I'm going to say the word Mets. You say what? Carlos Mendoza. They have in place a manager who has the chance to be a great leader of men, an Alex Cora type in-game manager. They hired the right person to lead that clubhouse and establish a culture that when they have the right players,

that's going to be a perennial. manager of the year type guy. So that's like what's top of mind for what's good about them right now for me. Okay. And you know Mendoza from your time at the Yankees, obviously, right? He is great. The might, Stearns and Cohen picked a great one there. They really did. So I like that about them. Okay. So when I hear Mets, I hear aspirational. I think the Mets, you know, there's no offense to the Woupons. I like the Woll Ponds. Got along with them really well. Love Fred. Love Jeff Wollpon. Obviously very close to Salt Cats. All Long Island people. But it was hard to see them winning a championship in that current configuration. I now think, let me just scare you for a second because you are a romantic baseball person.

I am 60. If the Mets have a drought similar to 86 to 2024, I'm not going to see a championship. I will be 98 before a championship shows up, right? there was some poor son of a bitch age 60 that saw the Mets win in 1986. It said, oh, man, I'm going to see at least one more championship. And unless he's in that wheelchair at Normandy with Joe Biden, you know, he didn't make it. You follow what I'm saying? All right.

I'm just telling you, I'm worried about this, but not that worried now that I got my friend Steve Cohen in place. I think the future is brighter than the past. I agree with you. Yeah, amen. Okay. So now I'm going to say the word Yankees. you say what? Success.

In a way... Go ahead. No, go ahead. I was saying a way more than people realized because of, as we talked about earlier in the conversation, the three decades straight of winning seasons, the number of championships, and they are hungry for more,

as much as their fans are, Cashman is. But it's just, if you watch the game as closely as we do, it's just staggering to watch a team in the race and have a winning record every single year. that success. No, it pains me to say this. The Mets are like therapy for misery. You know, you go through a miserable experience.

You get to see if your body and mind can live through it. The Yankans, I see a culture of excellence. And someday we're going to say that about the Mets. It's there now. We just can't see it yet. It takes three or four years to brew. I agree. I say the two words, Brian Cashman,

and you get the final word, Andy Martino. Inscrutable. And that was my challenge. He is a difficult to read guy, even for those who know him, he holds a close to the vest. And even now, if I called him right now and said, hey, what are you guys doing at the trade deadline? He go, I don't know, buddy wouldn't say, or something like that. He's a tough nut to crack. And that was why I chose one of the reasons, one of the many reasons why I chose him as a subject.

He is very good at being an inscrutable guy. I could have said success again, but I went with, but we've given him a lot of compliments. So I went in a different direction. Yeah, no, he's the man. He's a good dude. I like Brian a lot. What's next for you, Andy Martino? Well, we've got a, I work at SMY here where I'm in the office down at Four World Trade.

We've got a show tonight, and then it's just covering the game, day in and day out. I'm going to find another book topic before long, but it's a beautiful game. I'm lucky to be around it every day. God bless. It's a phenomenal book. The title of the book should be read by Yankee fans, baseball fans, business owners, entrepreneurs. This is a book for everyone. that's interested in excellence.

The title, the Yankee Way, and the subtitle is the untold inside story of the Brian Cashman era, which has been an era filled with great success for the Yankees. Feels like a very good year for them this year, Andy. Congratulations on the book. I wish you great success. Well, thank you very much for having me, Anthony. I really appreciate it.

When a country's productivity cycle is broken, people feel it in their paychecks, their communities, their futures. What does this mean for individual? individuals, communities, and businesses across the country? Join business leaders, policymakers, and influencers for CGs' national series on the Canadian Standard of Living, productivity, and innovation. Learn what's driving Canada's productivity decline

and discover actionable solutions to reverse it.