Otherworld - Beyond the Wall Pt. 2

Episode Date: August 10, 2026

In Part 2 of Beyond The Wall, Nina returns to her body and finds herself still held captive, in a new location and severely injured after an unknown amount of time has passed. In these crucial moments between life and death, she uses her intuition, the supernatural experience she just had, and memories of the 1984 BBC detective series "Miss Marple" to make a harrowing escape. Warning: This series covers many different difficult topics; sex trafficking, violence, assault and abuse.

Welcome to Otherworld. I'm your host, Jack Wagner. We're going to jump right back in with the second half of Nina's story. Just a quick recap, Nina had just been kidnapped by a man who was pretending to be a police officer. In the back of his car, she was handcuffed, bound, and drugged with ether. When Nina was certain that she was moments away from death, she suddenly found herself transported to another realm and had what she describes as a near-death experience. That is where we left off in the last episode.

Something I want to mention before we start, during the kidnapping, Nina was sexually assaulted and also survived very serious life-altering physical injuries from a knife. She told me about these, and it was very, very difficult to hear. We chose to leave those descriptions out of the episode, but I wanted to acknowledge that they happened. We're going to pick up right where we left off. Nina has just had a near-death experience in which she chose to come back to Earth into her physical body,

which at this point is in the midst of a kidnapping and assault. She did not know where she was. She had been moved, and an unknown amount of time had elapsed. This is Beyond the Wall Part 2, and you're listening to Otherworld. When the soul incarnates in her body, it drops down. And it's dark, it's cold, it's fast, and there I was. And I remember on the way down, I wanted to raise my hand, because now, I started to get physical awareness and I want to start to raise my hand and say, no, no, no, no, that was a wrong answer.

Because it was so fast. It was too fast. That is the only moment where I think, I wish it would have been a little more gentle or slowly. But it didn't. It's, and it's okay that it isn't. But if there's ever, would be a wish this is what I, in the consciousness of how humans become humans and how souls drop, I want to say this is a little creation mistake. Well, so nevertheless, I come back and I find myself very 100% aware, absolute in consciousness, knowing without seeing my body. This is what I get asked often. Have you been out of body?

Did you see your body? No, I was inside my body and I knew I'm dead. And I know that he thinks I am dead because he used electro shocks on my body, like a taser. And I feel my body goes with a chest up and sings itself together, up and things in itself back together.

So I don't know why he did it if he wanted to make sure that I am not to revive anymore and if there was slightly life left then I would have been revived. I don't know but I know that I was very present with that moment and all I could think of was

my mom and I said it in the very beginning we were good friends after even when we didn't live together it was very good for both of us but when I was a child she would always watch Miss Marple Agatha Christie figure character and Miss Marple would always say to Sherlock Holmes if you want to know that somebody is really You just put a mirror in front of their nose and mouse because it will become foggy. And I was so afraid, but not in the meaning of fear, not like, oh, I was so afraid because then I would not have survived. It was, when I say I was afraid, it was more like I didn't want him to know that I am

alive. So I could not afford to breathe. And I didn't. and he had his so he did this tether thing and he had his hand palms on my chest and he was

like pumping or like press not pumping pressing so I knew he was waiting for a heartbeat or to see if my heart would start to beat and I decided I won't let it beat

and that moment And till this day is responsible for my very clear message, we are in charge of our body. Absolute. Because I had the power to not let my body breathe and to not let my heartbeat. It was me. Or this part that was with it.

it is absolute separate from the body and I was in charge. So I didn't let my body breathe. I didn't let the heartbeat and I was just waiting, waiting for the moment where I could get away and the moment came. And it was, so obviously I was a dead, woman in this man's car and he had to get rid of the body. I didn't know where I was but I knew I have to get away and the only chance to get away was having him believe I am dead

so at some point he was the car didn't drive and he got out of the driver's seat and he walked around the car he opened the passenger door and he carried me out the dead body and he dropped it and then he was walking to the trunk

and as he walked to the trunk I hear the steps how he walked there and I hear this noise that springs I think make like and I knew this is a moment there was a distance between us.

So I have this little distance, a car distance, to just jump up and run. And that's what I did. I jumped up and I ran. And I didn't know, like I said, I didn't know where I was. So it's dark around me. It's wintertime, of course, the sun rises much later. And it's cloudy.

and I see a little light somewhere in the far distance and this is where I ran to not knowing where that is if that was really a light I just ran there and I was in the woods we were he and I were in the woods in a parking lot

and then this parking lot would hit a road but it would also go a little down So I had to run up a hill. I had a purse. And this purse was across my shoulders. And it had a little like a carabina hook. And he opened that. So when I started to run and jumped on my feet and I didn't know, did I have shoes, did I have clothes on?

I didn't know. There was really no... No thought about it. It was just like run, run, run. And my purse started to glide down from the bag. And for a moment I thought he grabbed me. Or he tried to grab me and then I ran faster. So that was a good thing that he loosened it.

And he was not behind me. Yeah, he was not there. he was probably in shock yeah and I did make it to the street now the street you know the little street light there it's one of those gas

street lights a white street just a few houses everything else was woods and one car I saw one car coming towards me but also in the distance

it was not So close. And fascinating is that I in this moment shifted my view to their view. So they are driving. I don't know who it is, right? Not that. And I see that they see a woman or someone running out of the woods, crazy, on the street. And that perspective in that moment, this.

opposite like because it wasn't me right it was them and yet inside of me something shifted and could do that i knew the chance that they would stop for me would be very low because i could it was dark still not too dark but relatively dark so it was around 730 a.m between 7 and 8 winter time so there have been a lot of hours passing from 1 a.m. to that point and there's

just a crazy person who runs from the woods out of the woods in the middle of the road and because I was from the nightlife and there were so many people heroin addicted I knew what crazy people look like

I knew what judgment could come from people when there would be a crazy woman running out of the woods like that was not uncommon that thought and I didn't want to make I could not afford that they would not stop

because it was the only car and he was still there so I had to make sure they stopped and I jumped on their hood they came closer and they did not go full throttle like 50 miles. They did slow down because obviously they didn't want to kill me. It was not that they came to stop.

So I had to make them stop. So I jumped on the hood. And then they stopped. And then I slid down from the hood and I went to the passenger side because the driver's side would have been, now we are in the middle of the road. And when I say that, I say we have not been on the right side

and we have not been on the left side. We were in the middle of the road because I jumped on their hood, right? So the driver was like maneuvering his car. And if I would have run to the driver's side, I would have been more close to the side where I ran out from. I ran to the passenger side.

and I opened the door. The door was not locked. And there was an older couple in the car, so that was an older lady. And I just grabbed her hands and kissed her hands and said, I am alive, I am alive, I am alive. I couldn't, and I kissed her hands, and the tears were rolling but out of joy.

There was almost no memory how I survived that I had to survive something. It was only I am alive. Deep joy. I'm in living. I'm living. I'm on living. I have overlived. So the car's full stop.

I am almost on the lab of this older lady. And this older couple, I mean, there were at least. He's 70, 75. There was a car behind them then, and it was a cab driver. And he couldn't pass because we were in the middle of the road. So now the driver, the husband, he came out the car. Then while I was kneeling down on the passenger doors, she started to get out. and then the cab driver walking so he has his car in the middle of the road and he is walking towards us

and i hear them say this young lady just came out of the woods and she said she got kidnapped so and i don't remember that i don't remember that i said i got kidnapped but i may have right i i got kidnapped but i do remember that i said to her was because I was aware that I was smelling really like heavy, heavy like something, right? Like this ether. It's like chloroform, but ether has a more sweet scent. And yet it is like, you know, sniffing on any kind of chemical solutions. Like you, I mean, I could have been a glues nifah.

And I remember I told her I didn't take any drugs He gave me ether He gave you know I remember that part So I might have said He kidnapped me And then said

He gave me ether And I only could say it Because I knew the scent Otherwise I would have said Just he drugged me or something Yeah So the cab driver is there Now he asks

He approaches me And he says Is he still there Now, see, I am at that point, I mean, I just got kidnapped. I don't know what time it is. I don't know where I'm at. I just know I survived it. I escaped and I know he's still there.

I also know that I could shift my perspective. Something has happened because of me dying in my consciousness. So there was no moment where I would not have. have an eye like a fork or like an eagle on the exit or entrance from that woods. I had my eye on it the entire time. So now the cab guy comes to me and he says, is he still there? And I said, yeah, he is. And he said, okay, I'm going there.

And I said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no. I realized I had to do with a psychopath. We didn't talk about someone who is just domestic, not just in the meaning of it doesn't mean anything. No, it's awful domestic violence. But this was a psychopath. And I didn't want to bring myself more in danger,

neither in danger any other people around me now. And still, shock didn't happen yet. I was still in this like joy. Joy, euphoria, because I survived, right? So now it becomes grounded. We all know, so three other people and I, me not knowing that my whole clothes, I'm soaked in blood. I am bruised and beaten up.

I don't know that, right? Like, I don't know that I am like swollen all over. I don't know how I look like at all. I did not have any kind of pain or any kind of difficulties to say something or to see because the eyes were so swollen. I was fine. I say, yes, he's there. He says, I'm going.

I said, no, no, no, no, no, no. And I can feel now something is changing inside of me. it became a different kind of reality, more serious. And in that moment, we saw, and you may remember, I said I had to run uphill. So he couldn't see what's going on on the street. Was he, I mean the perpetrator? And we couldn't see his car parked down there

because there was this hill between us. And then all of a sudden, very slow. and sneaky, no lights on. He would roll his car up the hill and we saw the front tires entering the road. And because he didn't have lights on and it was still dark enough, cloudy enough, gray enough, we couldn't see his license plate. And very slowly he was just rolling to the... the ride and he was starting to drive away and the cab driver runs to his cab and he says,

I will follow him. And then I panicked. Then I got an absolute shock and cried and screamed and said, please don't leave me. Please don't leave me because I knew this older couple will not be able to defend me if he turns around and will finish us all. this is when the shock like really panic and shock

when I something happened inside that I know oh my gosh this is real this is real so the cab driver didn't leave

he stayed with me he called the corpse the corpse arrived and now everything starts to get muffled right like say talk about me in third person

and my ears become like cotton balls, as if I have cotton balls in there. I can't really understand what they say. I just follow instructions. Okay, we have to go to a quick break, but we'll be right back with the rest of Nina's story. There was a female cop and a male cop, and they come to me, and they say, okay, here's how the procedure goes. we have to go to your home you have to change clothes we unfortunately have to wear gloves

it's not because we think that you are gross it is there can be no marks from us so they were very detailed and very gentle and very they explained every

step ahead so they bring me in their car and they ask me for my address and I give them the address and I remember that I started to think, oh, I can relax in the back seat,

I'm safe now, but we only drove two minutes. And I was like, wait, and they said, well, is that not where you live? Is that the right address? Yeah, it was my address. Now you have to see

where I was working. That was the, core the heart of West Berlin or Berlin. But where I was living was about 30 miles away near the forest, near the lakes, right? Like nice, not in downtown, not in the city life. It was away. So now another conflict came.

Where did he really know me from or know me from? Did he really know me from my night job? Or was I his target all along the entire time and he knows where I was living? That was not a good to fall victim. One thing is that he got away, but another one was that it was so close to home, but he got me from where I was working so there was no safety guaranteed because I just didn't know

how did he know me so I put everything in the bags and I give it to them as I take off my clothes I see oh my gosh I have blood everywhere this is the first time I noticed it and I look at her

and you could see he felt so sorry and she just couldn't break break down because it would have been unprofessional. But she did give me a hug. And then I thought, okay, I have to call my boyfriend before they take me. So I called him. I asked her if I can take a phone call, if I could call my boyfriend.

And she said, yes. So I called him and he said, you know what? I don't have time for that. And he hung up. when I said, hey, I got kidnapped and I am at home and there are the cops here, I had to change my clothes. We have to go to the department now for the report and then I go to the hospital.

You have to meet me. You have to come. And he said, I don't have time for that. And he hung up. And I remember how embarrassed I felt. There was a female cop and I pretended. And I pretended that he was still on the phone And I said, yeah, I understand.

Okay, I see you later. I love you. Like, as if I have like, oh my gosh, I was so protecting him. And that moment made me aware he is an absolute wrong person for me. And then we went to the police station and I gave him. my report and we then would come to the hospital there was first like a main doctor and he said well oh my gosh and you know everybody was like oh my gosh because I had deep cuts next to my mouth behind like around under my ears and behind my neck because of the gag that was so deep cutting

I had deep cuts in my wrists, like literally cuts. I had to go to a neurologist for years, so I could feel my hands again. But then I got to the GYN, and that was the first time I felt really, well, I felt this one moment nice with this female cop in my bedroom. And then a second time with the GYN because it was just her and I, because it was a female matter. A woman just would understand different than a man what I would need.

Sitting in this hospital, it's all done. I'm everywhere wrapped and ointments everywhere and pain medicine and I don't know what to do, where to go. I didn't want to go home. I was hoping my boyfriend would show up and he didn't. And there I was. And in my entire life, that was the loneliest moment. If somebody says I feel so lonely, this is what I remember

and I would do anything that this person doesn't have to feel that way. Because this is an awful feeling. There was not this moment where I was sitting on the bench and thought, oh, I just died. We are never alone. No, in that moment it was absolute human awareness and this is not what you do. You never want that somebody feels that lonely.

And it's beautiful because it was a great lesson in compassion. There I am and then the doctor comes at some point and she says, don't you want to go? Because, you know, I was just sitting there on a bench. And I thought, okay, I'm going. So she called a cab, and I'm sitting in that cap and, you know, of course, oh my God, how do you look like what happened to you? And it was, that was not the time to talk. I let him drive me to the club where we would go with our customers

if we would be there with them. This is where I went. And my dear friend, she took right away care of me. You know, she said, oh, my God, oh, my God. And that was family. And I was not able to go. home because nothing felt safe and if

anything would have been safe then it would have been that place that I chose to go to because there were my families and at some point my boyfriend showed up there

so it is Sunday right so it happened Saturday night to Sunday and then finally in the late afternoon I get home and I sleep and then Monday morning I get a phone call from one of those huge criminology

institutes from Berlin and the guy says I have to come and he feels sorry but they have to take things for the forensic. This is not because I survive but you know so I have I am the evidence and because I am the evidence this is how they will

find him. I was convinced. So I went there and we did the sketch and I'm there about like five hours in the whole institute. The guy is awesome. Like he was so sensitive and really a good, good person.

And then he gives me like a business card and he on this business card has written down a case number. And there's a phone number and he says whenever you see him or whenever you think you see him, you can call us hundred times. Because even if he isn't it 99 times, it will be the hundreds time. The case will never get cold. And the thing why in my case never got cold was because he said he's a cop.

And the government or the state doesn't like that. That is what happened then, that he got not caught for a very long time. Even when I could remember somewhat the license played, he was not caught. And then I thought I will never have peace as long as men runs free. And the only way to make sure that, sure, if there is any chance is believing

Miss Marple because Ms. Marple also said and it sounds naive, but it worked for me. That the perpetrator always comes back to the scene of crime. So there was no chance

I could not go. I had to return to my job and I wouldn't have if he would have caught. No way. was traumatized. So, because it was not an option to not go back, because I was hoping Ms. Marple was right.

She said they will come back, so I had to go out there. I was much more careful now. It was, I was more educated there. When you get arrested, it always has to be a woman and a man, if you are a woman, and always two people. So, and because I have never been in trouble before, of course, I didn't know those things. I always had my card. And it was not cell phone time like we have today.

We had phone boosts, right? So, but I had my little wallet and I had my, this case number business card and there's a phone number in there. And some days you would think about, I would think about it. some days. I didn't. It was just something, you know, it's like you have your wallet and you have that in there for years and you never cleared it out.

I didn't think about it every day. And then I was in the same place and he rolls with a car and he steps out. He walks towards me and he

I mean, it was so him. It was so him. It was like it was like time stood still that I thought, oh my God, here he is. Oh my God. And my knee started to shake and my heart started to beat so fast and I started to shake. Three and a half years later, April 92. And he walked towards me. And he said the same line.

I have to arrest you. We have to interview you about your boyfriend. This man didn't recognize me. I don't know what he did in those three and a half years. But that he encountered me and that he did not know that he already had me once is either because he was really so thick. like thick

oh this is just divine destiny on its highest level nobody could have identified him like I could so I look at him I'm super nervous I'm scared

I'm excited like all emotions you can imagine I want to scream I want to jump on his neck I want to beat the crap out of him I want to run away. I want to hide. I want to scream for help. Like every emotion you can imagine was there, very present,

as if we had a bubble around us. And I looked him straight in the eyes and I said, I don't have time for games. And I walked away. And in the street where I was, there was no telephone booth. So I had to go through the corner and then a little street and then go to the main street where also I had colleagues

out there and they needed to know no matter what he is saying that he is a guy who kidnapped me three and a half years earlier and I know circumstances go with him, right? So there were

no several tasks I had to achieve so I had to, I walked in the direction where the telephone phone booth is. And I also had, there was also a colleague of friend of, well, yeah, colleague, let's say colleague of mine where I knew that she always had her pimp around. So he would tell every other woman, do not go with this guy, because now we had also the license plate. And she said,

oh my gosh, he already, he already approached me. But something fell off with him. And I was, oh my gosh, So he is in his car and he is still driving around the block. So I walk to the booth. I continue walking. I go to the booth and I call this phone number that I got and I guess the case number and I said he is here. Here is where I'm at. And I don't know.

It took three minutes because it's, you know, it's downtown. and it's a lot of undercover cops always on the road there because it's, you know, nightlife. And at the end, when they finally stopped him and got him out, they were over 12 cop cars, big vans, small vans, undercover cars, even the security people from around were there. and then they jumped on the hood

and they with guns and they jumped from the side with the guns and dragged him out he was a bad guy and everybody was happy he never admitted it but because they found so much evidence

and his lawyer was as much as good he was there was nothing that indicated I would lie or I would add something that didn't happen or you know they found all the evidence in his car they later found evidence at his home

and it was obvious that the judges were so upset with him and I don't know if they felt like there was some higher instance behind him that had so much money to try

anything that he would not stay behind bars because they were looking he was very warranted before even my case. They were looking for a guy who was harming women by saying he is a cop. Really were after him. And I was the only witness.

The job that he had at the time of my kidnapping, that was a job that allowed him to have access to a radio, two handcuffs and he actually got fired there because he overstepped several boundaries. I can't say what it was but it was not a cop but it is definitely in the field

where he grew into this energy of playing a bad cop definitely that was not his job anymore because I said he got fired he worked something complete different yet when you think about it it is almost like this is where a mafia one in those lines would work

if they want to get rid of bodies as scurile as it sounds like You know, if you wanted to get rid and you just have to do a little thinking, right? Like what kind of areas would that be? How where would it be as easy as to get rid of a body? This is what he, but then was his job. So after he got arrested, I was still in this routine. And it was not only his arrest.

It was actually then that I worked less. there was no I didn't feel drawn anymore to go out there I at that time have already been separated from my boyfriend so I'm 23 now and so it happened when I was 20 now I'm 23

and I went more on vacation I would do something more fun with the money that I had I worked a lot to save a lot of money but then you know I didn't have to provide for my boyfriend anymore and I could go more on vacation and now I was like out there and I didn't even know it didn't make any sense anymore

and I remember after the trial and he was behind bars got convicted I was standing out there and I was wearing my normal clothes and I was wearing glasses and I was like what am I doing here and it was like as if somebody would have snipped with their finger and saying i don't know and i left as if i have there was nothing like it was really as if somebody opened my eyes as if the only reason why i started in the first place was to get this bad man off and save a lot of women's life and bring a lot of peace to other families. It was really like this. If somebody wiped my eyes,

and then I wanted to go back to school because I wanted to become a religion teacher. But now, from nightlife to day life to complete different people, I had to learn. So I started voluntarily a work to work with heroin-addicted, teenagers that would go on the street to make money.

It called Wednesday initiative. And we would help those young women and most also their boyfriends to get off the heroin, go in methadone programs. We cooked for them. We gave them fresh needles, fresh condoms. We made HIV prevention work. And I got fulfilled. And that is when I first met again more normal people, like not from the nightlife.

It's a complete different life, complete different people, complete different laws. Then I decided because it was in the rooms from the church. This is where I met my beautiful friend who was a pastor. I could give him what I wrote, I could ask him, then we wrote his sayments together that he would hold on Sundays. And I said, I want to be a nun. And he said, you can't be a nun. And I said, yeah, I want to marry Jesus.

And I want to live in a monastery. The world is so crucial. And I love God so much or the source of life, whatever you want to call it. And, you know, now I understand why women want to marry Jesus. And this is what I want to do. How do I become a nun? And he said, this is not you. This is not your destiny.

This all did not happen to you to hide in a monastery. Why don't you become a religion teacher? And then I thought, this is what I want to be. And I wanted to be a religion teacher for muted and deaf children. So I went back to school to get a higher degree. A degree I could go to the university with and I became a religion teacher. And then with 27, I got leukemia. And I healed that, but I had to start the chemotherapy and I quit the chemotherapy.

But that did not allow me to have children for a very long time because the DNA is so altered. through him. But then as soon I could get pregnant, I did get pregnant. And I raised a beautiful son. He's very spiritual, very grounded at the same time. One of the most beautiful beings I know. And I'm a grandma. And today I work with a lot of people, a medium, like as a medium, or help them to become authentic and give their life meaning. This is what I'm doing. And I'm still writing. I'm an author.

When you died, like I have that involved physical trauma. And this is only what I can speak of. And in my journey and overcoming this trauma, which is... a journey you need to dedicate yourself to because you want to live that consciousness that you have that I had experienced beyond my body. I think it is so very important that we understand that we are so much more than the body but not using it as escapism. We want to use it today now here within the body. If you are sick, hear, know what made you sick. If you are unhappy or in an unhappy relationship, don't stay. The life is so short or have a great communication. I'm not saying,

oh, just run from one person to another or run away from your family. No, I believe it belongs together, but it's only possible when we give ourselves a voice. And if we help others to find there, and respect theirs and claims or respect and we can lead in love. Like, it doesn't have to be combative or fighting. It's leading. I am me and you are you and you are just as divine as I am. And if we encounter anything and everyone with that knowledge, they can't be conflict in the world.

It's impossible. You have so much respect for life within everyone. When people say, and this is something that I really would like to address in the long run, when people say, this life doesn't matter because you are so much more than you. your body. No, no, no, no, no, no. You misunderstand something. You wouldn't be here.

You wouldn't be here if this wouldn't matter. You got a body, and you got a body for a reason. Yeah. That's it. I want to give a very sincere thank you to Nina for sharing the story with us. Like I mentioned, her original email was very concise. And when I sat down with her and started asking questions, I was so shocked as she began describing the entirety of her life story.

She has lived through so much, and it was an honor to hear it. This was one of my longest interviews over six hours. Shout out to Haley-Parrison for doing such an excellent job editing it. What Nina went through is shocking on so many levels. Something I've been thinking about is that near-death experiences come in many forms, but people who have them report many common themes. These themes are actually tracked and measured by something called the Grayson Scale, created by Dr. Bruce Grayson, who I've interviewed on the show,

and the Grayson Scale tracks 16 common themes that people describe in their NDEs. One of these is being able to perceive things that normally should have been out of sight from one's actual point of view at the time. Like, for instance, somebody unconscious undergoing surgery, witnessing a conversation that the doctor is having several rooms away, which to me sounds a lot like what was happening to Nina after her NDE supposedly ended and during her escape. That time she saw from the point of view of that couple who rescued her,

she saw herself in the road from their perspective. I find that very interesting, and it makes me wonder if her NDE was going on longer than she realized and maybe even started earlier as well. It's hard to say, and part of the reason for that is that there are still many mysteries about this whole thing that remain to this day.

Germany has extremely strict privacy laws, when it comes to their justice system, it's very hard for the public to get access to information about investigations or trials. The names of both victims and criminals are kept anonymous in any public release of information or reporting about a case. It's really the opposite of how things work in the United States.

So Nina knows a little bit about her attacker, but not as much as she would if this occurred somewhere else. Maybe that's for the best, I'm not sure. So while I don't know how many other people this man might have kidnapped or why he did it, I think it's safe to say that Nina probably saved the lives of many women by that chance run-in she had with him three years later. Thank you so much again to Nina for talking to me and sharing this incredible story. This episode was called Beyond the Wall Part 2, and you've been listening to Otherworld.

Otherworld is executive produced and hosted by myself, Jack Wagner. Our producers are Theo Schaefer, Theo Krantz, Haley Pearson, and Nikki Kate Delgado. Our theme song is by Cobra Man. The soundtrack of this episode is by Wiccalfa's Springs Eternal, Juice Jackal, and North Americans. Our artwork is by Coldassack Studios. Please show us your support by subscribing, leaving a five-star review, and telling your friends about the show.

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