Otherworld - Bonus: Otherworld x Undertone

Episode Date: March 13, 2026

Jack is joined by the Otherworld team for a behind the curtain look into our experience making this show. Special thanks to A24 and the new movie Undertone, which follows a paranormal podcaster who becomes haunted by mysterious audio files. You can catch it in theaters now. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All right, everybody, welcome to Otherworld. I'm your host, Jack Wagner. This is a special bonus episode today, brought to you by our friends over at A-24, and the new horror movie, Undertone, directed by Ian Tuosin, which is in theaters right now. If you haven't heard of this movie, Undertone is a new film about a popular podcast host,

a paranormal podcast host, I should say, who becomes haunted by terrifying, mysterious recordings, which sounds very familiar to me, extremely familiar, which I guess it makes sense why we're here today talking about this. And to do so, I am joined by the entire other world team, Theo, Theo, Haley, and Nikki to discuss our own real experiences doing this job. How are you guys? Glad to have you here on your own show. Welcome. Hello. I'm doing great. Hello. So like I said, this movie undertone is about a paranormal podcast. Obviously, this is something that we do in real life for our jobs.

We've been doing it for quite some time at this point. So in this episode, we're here to give everybody a little behind the scenes look into what it's like for us making this show. Yeah, first thing I wanted to do is, before we talk about our own experiences, what did you guys think of this movie purely from an audio perspective? How would we rate this person's gear set up? I was thinking, like, mostly I was thinking, like, wow, these iPhone recordings are extremely stereo. Like some of the background sounds like the

was it supposed to be, are we allowed to spoil it? No. There's like some, you're not allowed to spoil the movie. There's like some fumping. It's not a spoiler that there's haunted sound. Some of the like they're listening to recordings, right? They have so much more detail to them than the voices. I was like, that's crazy.

Well, we don't know, I mean, Theo, you don't know where the, you don't know what the mystery recordings were recorded on. You're assuming it was an eye for. Yeah, just because, I don't know, it sounds like that to me. They could have been recording on an $80,000 mic, a ribbon microphone. In a world where everyone has their own podcast and everyone has like a, yeah, really nice microphone at their disposal. This is like what would happen, I think. Yeah, maybe it was recorded by an audio file.

Honestly, the audio setup. This is your time to shine, Theo. Underrated setup, in my opinion. used widely but underrated because a lot of engineers will make fun of you for having a focus right but it's kind of like

being a guitar player you know what you mean? Like it's the people's instrument. Focus right, Scarlet is the people's audio interface. I clocked that right away. She's using a Focus Right Scarlet solo third generation USB audio interface.

I have one of those myself. I think all of us do. Not me and Nikki. I have two scarlets. I don't know what you're talking about. know what that is. It's okay. You guys don't need to know.

Don't need to know. You don't need to know. That is better. Consider yourself lucky that you don't know what that is. I think I've seen it before. They're very popular because they work pretty good. Yeah. And they're not very expensive.

And people who talk shit about them usually have some type of complex about audio quality. I noticed she was using, I think, a road PSA-1 swivel-mount studio boom arm for her mic. I could not ID the mic. Did you guys, did either of you get an I-ED on the mic? Yeah. I knew it.

Yeah, it's the RE20, the Electro Voice, RE20. It's a broadcast mic that was known professionally as the donkey dick, Mike. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I've seen some like a... And why's that? Almost like right wing kind of like cultural critics refer to it as too phallic.

really men shouldn't use it because it's too phallic yeah where is this audio discourse taking place you guys are on a different side of the internet for me it's like it's like a classic because i i i i've done like work for like public radio and that's like a it's like an old school radio mic it's a good microphone yeah i'm just imagining the people at a 24 hearing this right now and like hearing my hearing theos say that the mic is a right wing coated phallic mic They probably didn't like this. Oh, it's right way. People don't want to use it because they don't want to put something that looks like a penis like near their mouth,

even though like almost every microphone ever made is phallic. I didn't come to mind when I saw it. Well, you're a healthy person. You're not like a man with like a, yeah, a problem. You also didn't see it and immediately recognize the microphone because you are mentally healthy. I just saw a microphone. Okay. So we're here in this episode to discuss our own experiences

doing the real-life version of this job, the job that this movie is about. We all work on this paranormal podcast. That's probably the number one thing I get asked about is like, do you get scared making the show? What is it like making the show? I mean, I assume you guys are getting asked these same questions, right?

Yeah. Has anything frightened you? giving you chills? Has there been a bump in the night? I mean, I was, I guess I was talking to Jack about this yesterday. But like people often send in videos or like audio recordings. And sometimes it's like no explanation for it. They're just like, this was crazy.

And then I have to listen to it or watch it. And I'm like covering the screen with my hand. It's in case because I don't know what it can be. Yeah, I was going to say your job is like, in its own way, Nikki, because you are reading everything that comes in. Yeah. And yeah, like opening mysterious files for a number of reasons is frightening. You don't know what's going to be on there.

It could be, I mean. It could be truly anything. I have to imagine as a woman opening a mysterious file sent from a man in general is frightening. Or from anyone, from anyone, but from a stranger. Yeah, most of the time there are videos, which is, I guess, for some, just an audio recording. But there are some videos people send where I'm just like, that is kind of weird.

Like, I don't know what I think. Have you seen any scary ones? I think there was one that I sent in, like, the Discord group chat where it was like these boys in, it was like a Snapchat video. Do you remember this? Oh, yeah, and the thing in the back of the car? or something?

Yes. Yeah. But I feel like they just made that themselves. Like, that's a thing. I don't know. With video and any kind of like evidence with the paranormal, especially in the age of AI, social media being incentivized now for like people to make money on views.

Yeah. When you see something that's really convincing, you're kind of automatically jumped to like, okay, well, this must be fake. The better quality it is, the more you think it's not real. If it's so bad that you don't think it's fake, then it's probably not convincing. So it has like this reverse effect, you know.

Wait, Theo, I have a question because there's a point in the movie where he's like, okay, there's something weird in the audio here. There's like, there's another layer of audio under the other, under the initial layer. And I don't, I don't even know what that would mean or look like. Do you know what I'm talking about? Like, what is that? I think you could maybe see that in the spectrogram. Yeah, you would be able to see that in a spectrogram.

spectrogram. But what does that even mean? Like there's another, what is, there's another, I think you say that there's like another voice. Yeah, like theoretically, if it was in a spectrogram and there was two voices and they were like different registers, you'd be able to see them individually, like, along the, like, timeline. Oh, okay.

I'll take this opportunity to compliment you. You've been able to work miracles on some of our most distorted files in the past. I've been shocked at the stuff you've been able to do to it. Yeah, and I'm not even like a pro. isotope user. Oh, well, how do we get a pro? I know people who can do way more than me.

Can I have their phone email, phone number? No, actually. Are they looking for work? I'm not that close with them. I've had to use the spectrogram in the... We had an episode where we got sent like little

almost like a voice recorder that would be used in like ghost adventures at something. I forget which episode it was but I had to clean those files up That was Hunter Prisk. Yeah. And that was probably a season or episode in the show that actually made me scared because there was one that I was listening to by myself.

It's like a weird monophile. I can see like variations in the sound like in the spectrogram. If you don't know what a spectrogram looks like, listener, you can if you just Google that it'll, I think you'll intuitively understand like what it's doing. But yeah, so you can kind of, in isotope, you can kind of select with like a lasso tool certain areas and then make them louder. And so you can make like specific sounds like in the background noise of something louder.

And there was a time where I was doing that for a recording we had. And it legitimately was scary sounding. And I had to show my fiance, Sydney, because I was like, what do you think this is? And she's much more skeptical than I am. I'm more on the fence most of the time. Yeah, she's very much like that's fake. I was like, I don't know how they would fake it. I'm looking at the audio.

It doesn't seem like it's really clean and there's like a weird sound in the background. Yeah, that was a really weird one. I tried to also highlight because we put two of the recordings in the episode. One, I thought it was like really clear if you like really kind of zone in on it. You can hear something and kind of like the middle register

of like a voice or something moving. And then there was another recording that people said They just couldn't hear anything at all. But I swear to you, visually, I found something. And maybe just because I can see it when I listen to it, I could hear something. But there was people on Instagram being like,

there wasn't anything in that recording. But I swear to you, I could see it. It was there. I heard it too. And I heard the recordings. I mean, that was a scary episode. That was like, you know, probably the one that sticks out in terms of our episodes

that's most similar to this movie that involves this girl, Hunter, and her mom, she kind of finds out that her mom was secretly this ghost hunter, right? Kind of finds out that she was very involved in this and has this whole hidden life.

And I believe, like, the mom had these recordings that were supposedly recorded in a very haunted house after they had left the room. And objectively, there was a bunch of scary sounds on the recordings. I listened to them. are very scary. It's weird because it's like you don't know what's in the room,

so you don't know what it could or couldn't be. Yeah. But there was stuff on there. It was scary. Also, just for like a debate about whether or not these things are real. Like I don't know what happened in the room, obviously, but they sent, they physically sent me the recorder because they didn't know how to get the file off of it.

And then I had to, and then I had to like convert the file into something that was usable. for us. They didn't like digitally manipulate it at least. No, absolutely not. Yeah, I remember they did that and part of that was I was like,

I don't want them to like accidentally ruin this recorder while they're trying to file off. Yeah, if it's faked, it's something they did there and we weren't there. I mean, it would be too subtle to fake. Nobody would fake something so subtle. It was extremely quiet.

Yeah. But yeah, that episode and listening to that was frightening. I mean, the one time, I mean, there's been a couple times I've been like a little stirred while making the show, but I remember one time that sticks out to me, I guess it wasn't necessarily fear, but it was when we were recording,

after we recorded Eagle Eye, and Renee sent all of the belongings of her ex-boyfriend who has passed away. And like the premise of the story is like that he visited her as a spirit a lot, right? Like that this is something he can do well. That was just a first for me where all of a sudden I had this guy's like belonging from the story, like a lot of them in my house. And I remember treating them with respect.

And I did keep them out in my garage. And when I put them out in the garage, I remember saying out loud, I'm like, hey, sorry, man. No disrespect. But, you know, they're going to stay out here for now. I did say that out loud. I remember just opening that package and being like, this is definitely a first. You know, I'm usually just talking to people, but this is the first time a dead person's belongings are like now in my home. But yeah, Jack, you had me scan all of those, like, letters and stuff.

And that was really interesting. It makes it much more real because I was also in the interviews with you for Renee. And those were like four-hour interviews talking to her and getting to know. Yes. Like her life with this person so intimately. And then you're like interacting and. It just makes it so tangible. Yeah, and one of the items was his shirt, which is like a part of this.

It was having his clothes was wild. The love letters. Yeah. The love letters were amazing. That was still one of my favorite episodes. Did you try on the shirt? I did not try on the shirt. I do remember you texting me though.

Like these shirts are fire. It was a cool shirt. It was a nice vintage. He had one that was incredible. In fact, the shirt, which the episode was named after, that features an eagle, that one was really good. Like, if I saw it at a thrift store, it would be an instant purchase. I mean, what's the difference? It could end up in a thrift store anyway.

Are you saying I should have kept a dead man's shirt? I mean... Worn it? I'm sure I'm always wearing dead people's clothes. That's basically everything I own is thrifted. What does it matter if you knew him or not? Or like, you know, you got a connection. Well, it's one thing if a person passes away and they donate their clothes and then you buy it later.

It's another thing if I'm interviewing a woman for six to seven hours, she then, she sends me her lover's belongings. And then she sees me tagged in an Instagram post wearing his shirt at a bar, drinking a Pilsner in her long-lost lover's shirt. It's a cool shirt. So you still have all this stuff? No, no, I have, of course, sent it back. Okay. Yeah, yeah, I sent it back. I haven't been scared since the woman in the bath episode,

but that one did scare me. The woman in the bath one was extremely frightening. I remember that one, Theo. Because she has a very, like, deadpan voice. It was very soft-spoken. It's just describing these, these, like, fatal frame-style scary things happening to her. Yeah, and then I was editing that one in-head phone. alone.

Yeah. Yeah. I really, I love stories from Japan. I wish we got more of them. But that was a particularly frightening story. Yeah, that was an early one too. I just watched The Ring again and like the American one, but I've seen the Japanese one as well. And like I will say that like this is related because it's kind of about them.

Like when you, the episode's them. Like when you had that thing where. Siri kind of spoke to you and said, I'll see when you're 40. And then like we were kind of wondering if like that meant like maybe you were, you were wondering if that meant maybe you were going to die when you were 40. And that scared like if that happened to me, it would have wrecked my life. Like I'm so glad that happened to you and not me because like I couldn't even watch the ring until I was like very recently because I still had this like OCD thing I was like, if I even watch, if I watched the recording of the tape, of the ring tape in the movie,

then I'm going to die in seven days. And even if I knew that that wasn't, you know, it's like, would just ruin my week. And so when that happened to you, I was just like, God, thank God that didn't happen to me because that would have, that would stick with me forever. Well, what's funny about that is after it happened, part of me was wondering what that even was. but I was like, if it's true, what does that mean? And the things that my brain automatically jumped to were all positive. I was obviously thinking about like meeting these beings.

And I imagine that being a cool experience, something good. But you did say, you said. And then I was like, oh, maybe I'll do something awesome in my life. Maybe they're seeing me do something cool. But what's funny is that it took me a very long time before I considered like, oh, wait, what if it means that I'm going to die when I'm 40? I don't know what that says about me, my optimistic album. But it took me a while before I'm like, oh yeah, I guess the most people would look at that.

Most people would think this is a death omen. In fact, it's probably the most sense. If that happens, it'll be good for the show. Sure. If it happens, it'll be good for the show. And let's go on record that I give you permission to completely exploit it. Awesome. Thank you. Yeah, we're just going to keep making the show.

Airbrushed T-shirt. I give you permission to. do it right here. Do any of you remember, like, the scary stories to tell in the dark books? Yes. Yeah. Do you remember the one where they go to the cemetery and they see the corpse and then, like, a year later or something, the person that saw it dies and they have the same face

as the corpse? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Same thing. This is what, this is the kind of, like, the audio thing or, like, the visual thing, like, that scares me. is like if you look at something or you hear something, then like not even like it's going to happen right away,

but like sometime in like in the future that it's going to kill you or it's going to, that scares me. But it's never, it hasn't happened yet. Yeah. We haven't encountered anything quite like that yet. That was like one of the things.

Yet. That was one of the things. As if that's like actually possible. Um, I was thinking about that while watching the movie where I don't know. I just. They, I would never unleash true evil onto people. Like if we got something in the emails.

No shit. Me personally, I would never release true evil onto anybody. Because you know what I mean? Like they were just like, keep going on, keep listening to the tapes and like broadcasting it. And I was like, this is so irresponsible. Well, he did try and, I don't want to give us. spoilers, but like, there is some push-pull about if they should keep going. Well, I also don't know if they thought it was real or not, you know.

Right. She didn't, I guess. We don't want to give too many spoilers to this movie. But I understand what you're saying, Nikki. That's very noble of you. But yeah, like, if you're, if there was something you legitimately thought was too evil, is that what you're saying? Yeah, like, if we got something and I would just, I mean, that happens. That's literally happened. Like, I mean, even just parts of stories that we've edited out recently. I know we cut details out of one that was just like describing something too horrible, where I was like, nobody needs to hear this.

You know, that's happened before. Have there been emails that have freaked you out? I mean, so you read all of them. You read everything that comes in. And I know everybody kind of dives in there, but you're the main person reading it. Are there ones that have, like, freaked you out at all? The most recent thing that scared me was the interview that Haley and I did. It was the episode that was going to come out last week, but we decided not to do it.

Oh, yeah, that was horrifying. That was the first thing in a while that really did impact me. Yeah, that was horrifying. The ones that have freaked me out. are ones that people either stopped responding to us. Or like there's been a couple where like a person is backed out because they've been scared. Yeah. I mean, there is this one.

We're interviewing a lady from like Sweden or something about her brother who was like worshipping. Oh my God. Something demonic and like weird stuff happening with him. And she kind of like... Even the interview was weird. She cut it short. Mm-hmm.

Said she would finish it later. but she just kind of kept dodging us. And that was like an abrupt ending given the circumstances. Like she kind of seemed freaked out. That one's really bothered me. I mean, we've been continuously trying to get this person to come back. That unfortunately happens a good amount where somebody ghosts us. If you're listening to this and you're a person who has done that, please come back.

We would love to interview you. But yeah, it does make it. Those are those stories that like stick. Because also, like, there are instances, like, all of the stories that stick with me the most are honestly the ones that we never got to interview. And like you were mentioning earlier that, like, not area 51, area X. I don't know. I can't remember what it was. But like, yeah.

It was something like that. Yeah. We don't want to reveal too much. But I know exactly what you're talking about. It was so, like, out of, like, straight out of Silent Hill. And I just like think about it probably like once a week and just wish that. Yeah, this guy backed out. person but then again maybe it's best that we never did and then it just kind of stays as this thing

was it like in my head boring abandoned houses and they found like blood on the wall or something like it was like a like a foggy like maybe like an abandoned like suburb kind of or like like housing tracked kind of thing sector X that's what it was called sector X and there was there was like someone with an axe or so I can't there it's been a long time do you remember the story about like somebody's dog getting pulled under the house. Oh my God. Yes. That one freaked me out.

That one was crazy. This was another person who didn't reply. Like they stopped replying. But it was, what was the gist of it, Nikki? Oh my gosh. This was like when I first started working so like three years ago, maybe. It was like a house and he was house sitting, I think. And he had his dog with him.

And there was a basement. And it was like a cursed basement or something. And there was like a little hole to get in there. And I think it was something about like he got like pulled in, but it was empty in there. And like he couldn't come like something was pulling him in and he couldn't crawl something like, do you remember this time? The dog was being pulled in, right? It was the dog, not him. Oh.

Maybe he got pulled in. Or maybe the dog. I don't, I don't remember. It's been so long. But it wasn't the person who experienced it. submitted the story, it was like their sister. And so we kept trying to like, tell us, like, put us in touch with your brother. And then she'd be like, the brother does not want to talk about this.

I'm so sorry. I shouldn't have emailed you. But that happens often. Yeah. We get a lot of really, sometimes the craziest stories are the ones that, like, they just decide to. not want to share it. We have a lot of it.

Because it's usually the people who are the most scared, which makes me the most interested, of course. Yeah. It really, that's the most painful part about this show is like the one to get away. Yeah. It really is the worst part. And then it's like, for me at least, it's just, I don't even care about making the episode. Like, I just want to talk to you and know what happened.

No, yeah. No, it is like that. That's the thing for me. We don't have to record it. I just want to hear it at a certain point. Like, I just want to know. I'm very curious. Like the guy who met God at Burger King or whatever.

Oh, my God. Yeah. I don't know. He kept saying, okay, he kept like saying he wanted to record and then backing out. And yeah, but I think he was probably. There was another one that we got. And it was this man who he was working on a boat or something, on a lake. and he said that these beings came to him.

You remember this, Theo? I remember this, yeah. These beings came to him. Oh, beings. And then, like, all of a sudden he, like, woke up on shore, and he had just no memory of how that happened to him. Huh. Yeah, crazy. And then I reached out to him, and he just was like, I don't want to talk about this.

Like, I shouldn't have sent that email. And I was just like, okay. Like, I respect your decision. Yeah, the mystery is always the most intriguing aspect of it. Yeah. I think also one that freaked me out was the chicken whackers. Oh, yeah. I kind of, I like love that American, like, almost like a cult myth stuff.

It reminded me of, like, the first season of True Detective or something. And, like, when we were talking about it, before we were making the actual episode, but just like looking this stuff up, how much, like how little information there was on the internet was so surprising to me. And like,

because I just feel like it doesn't happen anymore. Like everything is documented or like there's like Reddit threads about stuff. This, but when we looked it up at least, there was like maybe four or five like Google search results that made sense at all. Everything else was just like non-related. And I was like, whoa, this is like,

actually something that seems freaky. That is one of my favorite ones. And also, you know, I did talk to people more about that later. People even sent me some, like, documents related to it. But it got enough where I was like, look, if this is real, even if it's like real people doing bad things that, like, it has been credited to the chicken whackers or whatever, like, I'm like, I don't know if I really want to go poking this bear personally.

Well, they, that seemed to be the consensus from like, because I was doing the TikTok at the time. And I would make, I was making a series of videos about the chicken whackers. And I would get comments and DMs being like, you need to stop looking into this. Really? Yeah, like, yeah. And then, you know, one person was like, if you want to come out here, I'll show you like the underground tunnels where like all this stuff goes down and stuff. but like, but you cannot be public about it. Like, you need to stop talking about this.

And it didn't scare me because I don't live anywhere near Grand Junction, Colorado. And like, I don't necessarily think that the chicken whackers is related to like a grander, like, pan American conspiracy. But the idea of going down there and like actually, you know, some of this being real was pretty scary. Yeah, like whether or not it's like occult or paranormal. Like that's one thing. But, you know, the reality is like homeless people get killed all the time and like disappear and are victims of things like that for all sorts of reasons, you know. That's real. That's scary.

There are conspiracies, powerful people covering things up. Like that happens whether or not it's related to the occult. Well, also it's like if even if something like it doesn't matter if there. the results of, like, people believe in the occult and people practice the occult no matter what, no matter whether or not the results are actually paranormal supernatural. Like, people still do the actions related to the occult, right? So people still do the rituals, whether or not the results are real. And that's the scary part, I think, for me.

Heyley, wasn't there a phone number that we were going to call or something? Do you remember this? Yeah, Jack, I almost think you did call. We did like a Google number. Yeah. Or no, it was on Reddit. It was on Reddit. There was a number on Reddit that said, if you want to know more about the chicken

Wackers call me. And they put their number. And I'm pretty sure you called. I'm pretty sure you did. but I think that nobody answered. I remember too because like the Rediter account, I don't know, who commented that, like if you go on their account history, it was like the only thing that they had posted in.

It was nothing else but that comment. It was really weird. It was just like the exact amount of information on the internet about this at the time that it seemed like legitimate and creepy. Like it didn't seem like a, what does it call? people kind of make like a game to follow. The ARG, yeah. It didn't seem like an ARG and like comparing it to like the videos on TikTok of people being like,

I'm going out of the woods and I'm calling to see a Skinwalker every 20 seconds for like five days. It's just like, oh, this is, this seems like kind of covered up or like hidden in some way. And so it felt it was older too. I'm getting scared was talking about her right now. I know. Yeah. I mean, I was sent a bunch of like, I was sent a bunch of like legal documents. where this was like brought up and like investigated and stuff.

You know, this name does pop up. Yeah, it was one of those where I think True Detective is a very good comparison, Theo. I think you mentioned that. Like it's something where it's like, okay, maybe it's a cult. Maybe it is political power covering something unrelated up. Maybe it's a mix of the both. Either way, it's like I knew that I was not equipped to do it. There's like a weekly show.

We are not equipped at all. I was ready to go. I was like, let's go. I mean, the thing is, like, the journalists who do investigate stuff like this, they dedicate sometimes their entire career to it. And, like, I know this sounds dramatic, but they get killed. Like, this has happened, like, many times. Like, journalists have been killed in the process of investigating shadowy things, you know.

We've interviewed on the show the guys who made the octopus murders which was a great Netflix doc that is about a journalist who abruptly dies under very suspicious circumstances while investigating this like all-encompassing conspiracy theory. I hate using that word even now.

I don't like using the word conspiracy theory because it has that tinfoil hat connotation and we live in an era where some of the biggest ones have been revealed to be just completely true and in some cases even crazier than what people thought. Yeah.

Yeah. But yeah, the point being is that great example of a time I've been scared in the show is that one, where I legitimately reached a point where I'm like, you know what? Like, I don't think I feel comfortable going further with this. Yeah, nothing good would come from that, right? I just am a cautious person. So I'm not trying to invite anything down upon me, whether I believe in it or not. But I feel like maybe more in the in the danger zone.

here than versus New York. I think when I started making this show, I thought I was going to be too scared. I mean, this sounds so corny, but I thought I would be too frightened to do this all year round legitimately. I thought it would just be like material that I wouldn't want to engage with on a week-to-week basis. But it's been easier than I thought to do that.

I think part of it's just like it becomes normalized or you become a little desensitized or something. Totally. But yeah, I thought I would be more scared on the regular. Yeah. Going back to that question where like do people ever ask you, like, do you get scared making the show? I remember I was at like a bar or like at a show with Sava. Like one of his coworkers was there and he asked me what I do and I told him.

He was like, whoa, so what do you believe in? and this is going to sound so silly and stupid but I instinctively I was like I believe in love that's fire that's very Nicki that's very Nicki but it's true

but I guess tying that into what you were saying where it's just like I don't get scared making this show just because when you feel like you have the power of love, nothing can hurt you. Oh my God. She's saying this laughing, but I know that she means this completely sincerely. I'm just 100% serious.

I know. When you told this to him, did you like immediately walk away and like a cool breeze blew through the menu? Because that's how I imagine it playing. He just started laughing and so did Sava. But like Sava knows him serious too. Like Sava knows me. Nikki's the most sincere person I've ever met.

I think I can do that with complete confidence. I get the same question all the time, like what, like after you tell people what your job is, and they say, okay, so like, do you believe in that? And, like, truly deep down, like, I mean, I, the answer is no. And that's why I feel protected, which is crazy to, like, admit, but it's like, I don't believe in any, anything, even love. You don't believe in love, Haley? No. But no, I don't believe in any of the, like, I actually am not convinced, like, in any way. Like, there's no, the reason I don't get scared is because, like, truly I do not believe. Which is crazy because this is my job and I enjoy it and I love it. But, like, deep down, I can't be scared of it.

Is that a defense mechanism? No. I also think that's funny because you, of all people on the show actively want, to experience something the most. Yeah, because I would love to not feel, to, like, to believe. I guess, like, for me, experiencing the paranormal doesn't need to be a scary thing, but, I mean, have you ever, like, experienced a moment of just, like, awe or, like, ecstasy? Like, that to me is also dressed as miraculous.

Does that make sense? But it's not, like, if I'm looking at a waterfall and I'm like, holy shit, this is amazing. I'm not, it's not paranormal. My amazement is not paranormal. It is to Nikki. That's what you don't understand. That's what you don't understand about her. Right.

I think to me the fact that it's not paranormal or that it is just like part of the earth is part of what makes it. So my God, okay, this got... No, this is great. I think this is great. And you know what? If there's one thing I've learned

about making the show is I realize like, this sounds corny, but everybody is so different. You two are a perfect example of it. And as much as I could put myself in somebody's shoes, like you really have no idea

what it's like to be another person and how they view the world. So it's like, I guess I've been humbled in that regard where it's like, yeah, you just don't know anything. You can't know everything. I would love to live in, I would love to live in Nikki's mind and body for like a week.

Oh, it would be crazy. I would love to swap. It would be crazy. But we're all one. We should make this spectrum of do you get scared by the show. Do you believe in love as like the people? Bonus episode.

Do you believe in love? All right. Well, I think that brings us to the end of this one. Guys, thank you so much for joining me. Shout out to 824. And of course, shout out to the movie Undertone, which is in theaters now. On Friday the 13th, actually.

Go check it out. It's in theaters. This is a movie that I recommend seeing in theaters for sure. The sound design. Yeah. pretty much audio, audio-based movies, so make sure you see this with a really good sound system. Thank you

for joining me, guys, and of course, thank you for listening. Bye. Bye. Bye.