Otherworld - Episode 120: The Final Visitor

Episode Date: April 28, 2025

After an extremely close call while driving home late at night, Alexis finds herself being visited by what can only be described as the personification of death. Lily shares a very similar experience that occurred just prior to hearing grave news about a dear family member. Check out our Merch⁠ Follow us on:⁠ Instagram⁠,⁠ TikTok⁠,⁠ Twitter⁠ For business inquiries contact: [e-mail] If you have experienced something paranormal or unexplained, email us your story at ⁠[e-mail] To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to Otherworld. I'm your host, Jack Wagner. This episode is about somebody who believes they may have come face to face with death itself. Not a near-death experience in the way that it normally comes up on this show. This is an encounter with the personification of death, the Grim Reaper, also known as the Angel of Death. The Grim Reaper has got to be one of the most famous. figures in the scary universe. These days, I feel like you're most likely to see the Grim Reaper pop up as a decal on the back of a truck, maybe as a tattoo or printed on a giant t-shirt, perhaps even on some kind of very aggressive Facebook meme one of your uncles might share.

However, the origins of what we know as the Grim Reaper date back very far into history, most cultures and religions have some sort of similar deity who carries out God's will by taking lives and serving as a sort of bridge between our world and the next. And even though the Grim Reaper we know of now is visually kind of a creation of pop culture, over the years, I have heard of many people encountering a cloaked black figure that appears near the end of someone's life. Often, this is something seen by people who work in hospitals or in places where lives tend to come to an end. So whether this being is a literal entity slipping between worlds and reaping souls or just a manifestation of a very well-known symbol of death, I'm not really sure,

but this episode features two people who had experiences involving it. And hopefully, we end up getting even more stories about this topic submitted in the future. This first story comes from Alexis. This is episode 120. The title is The Final Visitor, and you're listening to Otherworld. This is Bobby? Yeah, it is. At its core, the science, you can't argue. I'm not only, about all the science.

Up in the sky. It's almost frustrating that it's happening. I'm going to die. I'm going to. If limbs were just like wrong. Everybody moves back into the light, even if it takes them a minute. Hi, my name is Alexis. I am 34. I am an event producer and a drag performer and currently live in Portland, Oregon, with my partner and my two cats, Ouija and Lemmy. I grew up in Orange County, California, specifically Laguna Nigel.

It was a brand new track home with white pictures. fence, ocean blue carpeting, two stories with a beautiful garden in the backyard that kind of butted up to a steep hill with walking trails. I was an only child, so I definitely was left to my own devices a lot of times. I spent a lot of time with my maternal grandmother, who's an artist, but otherwise a lot of time just kind of playing by myself. My dad was a senior deputy corner investigator for the Orange County Sheriff's Department. So as a kid, my understanding of that was he goes out and finds dead bodies. And his specialty was solving unidentified or John or Jane Doe cases.

And he was always really good with computers, building them from scratch in his free time. And so he was essentially the IT department before they had an IT department. And he went on to create the John and Jane Doe online database. Because there wasn't a way for other counties or states to quickly cross-reference, you know, if somebody went missing in one state, and they found an unidentified body in another state, so this way they could kind of communicate with each other, or even within the same state.

And they even did K-Cal-9 special on him in, I think it was like 1999 or 2000, called Detective of Death, which I thought was really funny when I was a kid. He had a really great sense of humor. He also taught classes at the, Corner's Academy there on identification. And he would be talking about tissue samples and walking around with a specimen jar in his hand and while doing the lecture, reach into the jar and take a bite.

It was full of beef jerky, of course, not actual human flesh. That was kind of his personality. But I know it was really draining on him. The investigators are usually, the ones who have to go in and tell families that their loved ones are deceased, and doing that day in and day out definitely takes a toll. I know he would take like two showers a day just to wash off kind of the smell of death. I didn't realize at the time that because of that anxiety and stress, he was a really high-functioning alcoholic, but that definitely came into play later on. in our life. And then my mom was a night shift ER nurse.

So kind of between the two of them at the dinner table, lots of times it would be like, how was your day, honey? And talking about brains being splattered on the ceiling or some kind of weird metal object stuck in somebody's orifices. And that was just kind of normal for me. so I didn't really know any different. My parents were not religious,

and we were definitely like an X-Files household because this was early 90s, watched a lot of horror movies and sci-fi, also like ER and Law and Order, which I thought was funny, considering that was basically their jobs, so they would get off work and then watch what they just did all day.

As I got older when I was like in minors, middle school. My parents got divorced when I was 10. And my dad was teaching. He would sometimes ask my opinion on slides. And it was like, oh, should I use this picture or this picture? And it's a picture of like a woman decomposing in a bathtub. And it's like, dad, I know this is normal for you, but probably inappropriate to show to, like an 11-year-old. Like, it's one thing to hear about something because, you know, again, we watched a lot of horror movies growing up, and so you can kind of distance yourself from that.

But if you're seeing, like, crime scene photos, actual crime scene photos, it's not special effects. You know, it's not, I mean, you know that that's not real. but when you see real pictures, when you smell the smells, it becomes more real. And also just the heaviness of it. Like I was saying, you know, it definitely affected my dad in a pretty significant way. Just the heaviness of having to tell people that, you know, your brother, your mom, your husband, somebody is gone. and sometimes it was by their own hand. Sometimes it was an accident. So feeling that kind of like

secondhand heaviness definitely made it more real. And, you know, ultimately my dad died from alcohol-related issues at 52. So he was really young, but he just, you know, couldn't shake it. And it's a lot for somebody to deal with. I guess, like, since I had a handful of pretty impactful kind of paranormal things that happened to me when I was a kid, that really stuck with me because they, both of the, like, kind of big things that happened, happened right before my parents got divorced. So I feel like the house was pretty charged at that time. And then after my parents got divorced,

my mom moved up to Ligerohead to kind of run away. And my dad moved in with my grandparents, his parents. And my mom continued to be a nurse, but she kind of moved more into admin rather than bedside nursing, which was good for her. I think she needed a break. But my dad stayed at the corner's office for several more years. And I, you know, going through middle school and high school,

I kind of went back and forth between them after my mom had moved back to Orange County. And I have gone several times to the sheriff's. department, you know, I would go visit or I would attend events and things like that. But as I got older and especially as my dad's alcoholism got worse, I tried to spend more time at my mom's house just because I grew up being really close to my dad and it was really hard to be around him like that. So when I graduated from high school, went to college, went to community college and then I transferred up to Cal State Long Beach and I was living out of the house at that point and so my priorities had kind of shifted into my schooling. I went to school for

creative nonfiction and poetry and so I still saw my dad but he unfortunately was forced to take early retirement because of his alcohol issues. And after that, his health went pretty downhill. So again, it was really hard for me to see him like that. So I had kind of distanced myself until he passed away in 2012. He had collapsed outside of an ATM and essentially. had put himself into an alcohol-induced coma. And I was 21, and I had to be the one to kind of make a decision on what was going to happen with him. And because of his past working at the corner's office, I knew he would not want to, you know,

be a vegetable. I knew he would not want people at the corner's office to have to come out. out and deal with his body, like he would be so embarrassed by that. And so we had to make the decision about, you know, his end of life. And it was, it was something that was a long time coming, but it was also really sudden. And I was still pretty young. And so that was really hard. So that happened. And then very shortly thereafter, my cousin, who was only six months older than me. He was 22. He went to Taco Tuesday with his friends. He had just graduated from college. He was coming home and his heart stopped. And he died.

And that was really shocking because we had no prior indication there was anything wrong. He had just been snowboarding. he, you know, was very active. But we found out later that there is a genetic heart mutation that runs on my mom's side of the family, that my grandma, who recently passed away, she has or had, and my cousin had it and didn't know. And because of that, he had an enlargement. heart from like a virus and just drop dead, which was really scary and shocking. And because he was so young and otherwise so healthy.

So that really kind of changed my outlook on life. And I always thought, like, I need to just make it past 22. And I also have this genetic mutation, which I found out pretty recently. So nothing is guaranteed. And you just have to appreciate your life while you have it. So just losing my dad and then my cousin. And shortly thereafter having a health scare with my mom all within like four months. I was really just trying to have a fresh start and figure out what I wanted to do with my life.

I found a online magazine that was hiring and essentially needed an everything person. So I was going to be helping write articles and work on a radio show and go to events up in L.A. and Orange County and San Diego. So I was 22. This is 2013 summertime, probably May or June, and my editor and I had gone to a art gallery opening up in Hollywood. And I was living in Orange County back at my mom and stepdad's house at the time. So I was driving an hour and a half, two hours each way. When the event was over at about 1230 or 1 in the morning, I had to drive back home. I think it was on the 405, if I remember correctly. But I got in my little black 2008 Suzuki Forensa, had my iPod plugged in, and was going maybe 70-ish miles an hour driving home.

And I was in the second most left lane, so not the fast lane, but the next one over. And I'm going. And weirdly, even though it's probably a Tuesday or Wednesday night, there's not really anybody else on the road, which is great because I just want to get home. I'm going. and all of a sudden out of the corner of my eye, I see a, it was either tan or silver little four-door sedan, going sideways across the freeway. So from my right to the left, cutting across,

and this all happens within a matter of seconds, but it feels like it's in slow motion. turn the wheel super fast and swerve into the fast lane. And luckily there was nobody there because otherwise I would have hit them. I swerve. This person cuts across the front of my car, hits the center median, and starts spinning. And they start spinning clockwise towards my car. And there's a brief moment where I see the push.

person inside the car. Like, I see their eyes. In that moment, I, my brain was just trying to process what is happening because, A, when is there ever somebody driving sideways on the freeway, or any street, for that matter? And so there's the moment of kind of puzzling realization, like, wait, there's something traveling in front of my car. going the perpendicular direction to where they should be going. I'm going 70 miles an hour, so regardless, if somebody had like swerved into my lane, I still have to slam on the brakes. And they hit the wall and they start spinning towards me in this counterclockwise way. And again, I don't know how quickly or how slowly this was happening.

but it definitely felt like it was happening really slowly. Like I can see the car rotating towards me. And the way the light was, because it's 12, 30, 1 o'clock at night, there's a few overhead street lamps, but not super well lit. So I can only really see a silhouette of a person. I couldn't really see their face. I honestly don't even really know what they looked like, but I just saw kind of like reflection of their eyes for a second

as they were spinning towards me counterclockwise. And we kind of had this passing moment where I looked at them and I can see them looking back at me. And I can only imagine how terrifying that would be. I mean, it was terrifying for me being in that situation. And it just felt like a dream. But it was absolutely not a dream. You know, I had not been drinking.

There was no way that this wasn't real, but it felt like this should not be happening. And then seeing them spin so close to my car and just be a couple inches away, like I should have hit them. And I didn't. And them spinning all, diagonally backwards towards the opposite side of the freeway and smashing against the wall.

I just was in shock. I was frozen. I was maybe five inches away from dying. All right. We'll be right back after this quick break. I think if it was not fatal in that moment, they were definitely very critically injured. because they were traveling. I mean, I have no gauge of how fast they would have been traveling into like the center median. But I mean, fast enough or with such force that it ricocheted across the entire freeway. And it's like that doesn't seem like it's that big of a distance, but that's kind of a big distance. There was like six lanes in this freeway.

you know, the 4 or 5. So when they hit the center divider or the median and then spun away and then hit the opposite wall, it was like, it was kind of hard to see from that distance because they were kind of far away from me at that point. But I mean, definitely the way they hit was their passenger side smashed up against the wall like perpendicular to the car. And so it was like that whole size. And so it was like that whole side was crunched in. I didn't see if there was a passenger or not, so I don't know about that. But just the force of which they hit both of those walls, I would be surprised if they were not in critical condition or it was potentially fatal. As soon as this happens, I pause for a few moments and I see somebody else pull up behind them and they're checking on them.

So my thoughts are just like, I need to go home right now. There is that dark burning rubber smell just in my nose. My eyes are welling up with tears, not from crying, but just because, my eyes are so open, like I've been holding my eyes open so hard that it's like they feel wind blasted and my back is sore from bracing so hard and ripping the back of my dress. And I just feel like a computer that's getting rebooted or something. I have no thoughts other than I need to go home right now. And so I just slowly press on the gas and I can feel how uneven my tires are.

Like I probably should not have driven home, but I was just one track mind. Like I just need to go home right now. I, you know, it's 1.130 in the morning at this point. I just need to go. and so I'm driving. I don't know how fast I'm going at this point, but, you know, steady enough that I'm just trying to get home quickly, but also my tires are pretty messed up.

I'm going for, you know, maybe 10 or 15 minutes, and no music, no nothing, just staring straight ahead, just hoping for the best. luckily there's not really anybody else on the road at this point. The only two other cars that I saw on the road were either the crashed car or the person who pulled up behind it. And after I drove away from the scene, it was just me by myself on this six-lane freeway, totally alone. But all of a sudden, I notice kind of out of the corner of my eye towards the passenger side out of my right, a black hearse pulls up, not in the lane closest to me on my right, but the next one over.

And it's kind of one of those like classic black hurses with, you know, the swirls on the side. and that's not that unusual, I guess, but the fact that I didn't see it before this moment, I didn't see it in my rearview mirror. It just kind of pulled up alongside of me, and it matched my pace. Like, it was going at the same speed that I was going. And I pull up a little bit, and I look into the driver's side of the car. And it looks like something out of an 80s movie. It's another one of these moments where I'm like, am I actually seeing this? The driver's side window is glowing neon green with this kind of fog emanating from it.

And there's a figure in the driver's seat that is wearing a black hood, black glove, and I turned to look at this figure and I'm staring at it for a few moments and then it turns and looks at me and it has a skull face like that is literally the grim reaper and it's not a mask. The skull looked real. I mean, as somebody who has seen real human skulls in my life, again, it's, you know, one lane over in a car, but texturally, you know, you can tell that it's like smooth but rounded, not like a mask would be flat. texture looks like bone, not rubber. It's not like a rubber Halloween mask. And the sockets, if it was a mask and they were painted black, you would have the like reflection of the light off of the, like the gloss of the paint on the inside of the mask. But this, it was like the

opposite of light, devoid of light, almost like a velvet black, if that makes sense. More than anything else, I think what made it feel real and still makes it feel real to me is the feeling I got when this thing looked back at me. You know, it's facing front, it's driving, and then turns and looks at me, and it's just this, even though there are no eyes. there. It's like this knowing look and the skull face, there's no emotion to it, but you can feel there's almost this like smugness about it. And that is what scared me. And I have this kind of sting in my chest and, you know, that rush of adrenaline of this thing looking at me. the feeling of like, I almost got you.

You could have been it. Like, this could have been it. And, like, I know, yes, it could have been a person in a costume or whatever. Like, people have hearses. I almost bought a hearse for myself when I was young. But at the same time, this is 1.1.30 in the morning. Tuesday or Wednesday night in May or June, there's no reason that a person should be there at this time, especially with this glowing green light and weird fog coming out of the car.

And I know the descriptor of saying it was like an 80s movie maybe makes it seem less credible, but that's honestly what it felt like. like in that moment, I was like, what? Like, this seems like a scene out of a movie is like what it felt like. It's like this is too, like, artfully staged to be something that's happening in front of me right now. But it is really happening is what it felt like. Because this happened so quickly, I mean, this is probably a few seconds. All I really saw was.

just the face and then the way it was turned because it was like both hands or on the steering wheel, all black with this black hood. And it's turning over its, I guess, left shoulder to look at me. I really only saw the face and then the hood. And then because of this like green light and smoke, those were the things that really stood out the most. Wait, I'm sorry to interrupt, like, was this a guy in a costume? Or was like, or were you seeing like... This was not a real... Yeah, this is not a guy in a costume.

Like, A, I am a performer, so I know what costumes look like. And also being someone who was like obsessed with Halloween since I was a little kid, like, I have seen my fair share of... you know, skeleton costumes or skull masks. And also I've seen real dead bodies and real skeletons. So I know what that looks like. And I mean, if you close your eyes and you imagine what the Grim Reaper looks like, like that is what I saw. And, you know, like your natural inclination when you see a cool car on the road is you want to look into the driver's window and be like, oh, who's driving that cool car? Who's driving this hearse in the middle of the night on the freeway that just appeared?

And, yeah, not only was it the Grim Reaper or, you know, something that looked just like what you would imagine the Grim Reaper, but also there's this glowing, green smoke in the car that if you were a person, you would not be able to see or breathe. the amount of smoke that was in there. I mean, it wasn't like just, you know, a cool ambiance light. Like, it was like, like, if you had a fog machine, like an industrial fog machine in your car and, you know, was blasting it, you know, full amount. and there's a glowing green light in there and you're driving.

Like, I don't think that's something that a person would do. Or if you were a person, I do not think that you would get very far or driving on the freeway. You know, 60 plus miles an hour, probably not great. After I have that moment where I'm looking into the car and this figure is looking back at me, I speed up. You know, I'm maybe looking for like five or ten seconds, and I speed up because I just want to move past this. You know, I have this really intense feeling looking at this skull figure and I need to go. And so I speed up and I am watching the hearse in my rear view mirror and I can see the figure still with like both hands on the steering wheel, the skull phase.

the skull face, the glowing green and this kind of fog that's filling up the front part of the car in the windshield. And I look back at the road and then I look back into the rear view and, you know, a few moments had passed, but then the car was gone. It just was there one moment and then it was gone. It wasn't behind me. It wasn't in any of the lanes on either side of me. It was just gone. And it was not close enough to an exit that somebody could have gotten off an exit. There was no exit nearby. So it was just gone. This was probably the most intense thing that has happened to me personally. I think I'd been through a lot of intense things. with other people, but as far as something happening to me personally, this by far was and continues to be the most intense and definitely the closest I've ever been to a really dangerous situation. I have never had any kind of hallucinations. I've never seen anything like that before or since.

I was completely sober and very lucid when this happened. I obviously made it home, but I remember I just kind of put myself to bed. I was so kind of just drained. I feel like the best word was just drained. Like I had nothing left in me and also the dread of having to try to explain to my mom and my stepdad that I had just ruined all four of my tires and having to deal with that the next day. I did not tell them about what had happened with this like Hearst skull groom reaper figure. I mean, I told them about the accident, but, you know, I didn't know if they

would believe me. And so yeah, I just went to bed and then had to try to deal with the car the next day. I don't think that like the Grim Reaper is a real entity or being. I feel like it was more so like an omen. Because to me it's like I don't know. I mean, maybe it was somebody kind of shepherding the spirit of that other person away, like, if they did die in that moment. But to me, what it felt like was more of a warning. Like, this could have been you. This could have been really bad. This could have been the end is what I felt in that moment when this figure was staring back at me.

And I, it was definitely just kind of confirmation that, there is something else out there. But also, even though it was scary in the moment, kind of felt like maybe someone was looking out for me because, you know, this car was only a couple inches away from me when it was spinning towards me. It should have hit me. I should have hit this other car.

And I didn't for whatever reason. So I kind of feel like whatever this thing was that I saw, it was more mischievous. And like I was saying, kind of like smug rather than like being malicious, it was just kind of like, that could have been you, but you missed it just narrowly. So overall, I mean, I think it definitely makes me grateful that I'm here and that something, you know, didn't happen to me in that moment. I wish that I knew what happened to the other person. I am irritated because there's one photo of me from this event that I had popped up in my, like, Facebook memories. a few months ago, and I have been trying to find it so I could try to track down exactly what day this was and try to look it up. But again, this is 2013 that this happened, and I'm sure there's

been a billion car accidents since then. I mean, I hope that person is okay, but I don't know. Overall, I guess just kind of, you know, nothing is guaranteed and something can happen. to you in a split second any moment. So you just kind of got to appreciate what you have while you have it. It's been 10 years since this happened. I think revisiting it, it definitely is a reminder both figuratively and literally to slow down. I am somebody that, is very ambitious and I have a lot of things that I want to accomplish in my life that I haven't done yet and I always feel like I have to go faster and I have to do more and I always have to be busy. But if you're going so fast, you can't enjoy your life, then there's kind of not a point.

I might live to be 90 or I might just live until the end of the day today. but I just have to, A, have a sense of humor and be just really appreciate the things around me and the people that are in my life and not get so caught up in feeling like I need to go fast all the time. All right. Thank you to Alexis for sharing her story. I thought this was such an unexpected and unique one. There are so many different ways you could interpret this. I joked around with her a bit after the interview about how funny it is that the Grim Reaper,

if it is a literal being that exists, can drive a car. I guess he wrote a horse in the past. It's not that much of a stretch, but I don't know, it just seems funny for some reason, especially that he would choose to drive a hearse. What I found most interesting about this story, though, was the connection that this image had to her late father

and his line of work. Like I said, there are so many ways to interpret this story, but maybe whatever this thing is manifests itself in a familiar form. Maybe this was a message from her dad, or maybe she herself manifested this thing whatever it was after coming just inches from death herself. So after speaking to Alexis, her story actually reminded me of another interview I did

a very long time ago that I thought was a cool but very short story. Too short to be its own episode. It of course also involves the Grim Reaper. I thought it would be perfect to put at the end of this episode This story comes from a woman named Lily, and I'll let her take it from here. So my name is Lily, and this story happened in 2011. I was in the 11th grade, and my grandpa had been in a nursing home for maybe three years at this point, and nothing like physically wrong with him, but his mind was pretty gone.

Never officially diagnosed, but he had some sort of dementia or also. and he'd just become too much for my grandma to take care of, so they'd moved him into this home. And we got updates here and there about him. We'd gotten, the latest update we'd gotten was that he was moving rooms from the room he'd always been in into a different room with a new roommate, and we just totally assumed that that had happened. And then maybe like two weeks later, I go to bed one night, and I have this dream that I'm in the nursing home. And my family lives in Canada near Toronto, and my grandparents lived in New Jersey. So we really only got there, like, in the summer.

So I'd only ever been in the nursing home maybe two or three times when we would like visit once or twice a year. But it was like super vivid dream of me being in this nursing home. And I'm sort of running through the halls, trying to figure out where his new room was. Can't find it. I stopped this nurse and I'm like, hey, I'm here to see my grandpa and he had moved rooms and I'm not sure where his new room is. Could you lead me to his new room? And she just sort of goes, oh no, he never moved rooms.

He's where he's always been. So I'm like, okay, cool. Start walking through the nursing home again towards where I knew his room was. And his room was sort of at the end of a hallway, like the door. and on the right side of the hallway there was like four sort of waiting room chairs. So I turned the corner and see his door shut. And there's these four waiting room chairs. And there's this sort of human-like figure sitting one of the chairs just like totally hunched over with its head and its hands.

Like just like really sad. And it's wearing these long sort of flowing black robes with this big black robes. with this big black hood. So I can't see a face and it's just like totally like head in its lap in its hands like sad. And like you can,

it's a dream but you can sort of like feel things in dreams sometimes. And it was this super like tangible just like foggy, sad, heavy feeling. The best way you can describe its posture and like the feeling was that it was like sort of ashamed and it was like really sad and just like depressed and like it wouldn't look at me and it didn't want to do what it was about to do. And then there's this huge crash and I wake up,

I'm in my bed, I look at the clock, it's 1233 a.m. And I just kind of quickly thought like, oh, that was kind of like the grim river. That was sort of weird. He wasn't a nursing home, but we had no reason to think that he was dying. I didn't really think of. about him dying. It was sort of something that I assumed would happen much further into the future. Go back to bed. Forget about the dream in the morning. I had an English exam the next day, so I woke up, went to my high school, wrote the exam, came home early, and my mom sort of waiting by the door when I get home. And she goes, the nursing home just called, and your grandpa died, and they're not sure what time it was, but it was sometime in the middle of the night.

And I just sort of immediately remembered the dream. And I was like, oh, my God, pretty sure it was 1233. And then she called my dad, who was at work, she didn't say anything about the dream. And he doesn't really sleep. So he was like downstairs in the middle of the night watching TV. And he was like, I was watching TV last night. And this bowl flew off the shelf at 1233. and just smashed on the floor.

So that's the sound that had woken me up from this dream, which is just like another weirdness to it. And then we'd asked the nursing home in the end if he had ever moved rooms, and he had actually never moved rooms, unbeknownst to us. So the nurse in the dream was right. All right, thank you to Alexis and Lily for sharing their stories. Like I said in the intro,

I've sort of just heard about people encountering a cloaked black figure in hospitals and generally places that are near death for quite some time. We are always looking for new stories. And whenever I put out an episode about a new topic, I'm hoping it drums up some emails from people who have experienced something similar. If you have one of your own, you could send it to Stories at Otherworldpod.com. Thank you once again to Alexis and Lily.

For these stories, this has been episode 120. The title is The Final Visitor, and you've been listening to Otherworld. Otherworld is executive produced and hosted by myself, Jack Wagner. Our theme song is by Coburman. The soundtrack of this episode is by Juice Jackal and North Americans. The song you're hearing right now is Blood Barrens by Crystal Stilts. This episode was edited and engineered by Theo Schaefer. Our associate producers are Nikki Kate Delgado and Haley Pearson.

Our artwork is by Coldestack Studios. If you want to hear bonus episodes of Otherworld, become a patron at patreon.com slash Otherworld. Our social media is at Otherworld Pod. Please show us your support by subscribing, leaving a five-star review, and telling your friends about the show. Thank you to the team at Odyssey.

Leah Reese Dennis, Rob Morandi, Eric Donnelly, Moira Curran, Kate Rose, Colin Gaynor, Michael LeVey, Josephina Francis, and Hillary Schuff. Follow and listen to Otherworld Now for free on the Odyssey app, wherever you get your podcasts. And finally, if you or somebody you know has experienced something paranormal, supernatural, or unexplained, you could send us your story at stories out of the worldpod.com.