Otherworld - Episode 179: The Other Sam

Episode Date: August 24, 2026

While in high school, Forrest befriends a boy named Sam, who begins exhibiting strange behavior. During their hangouts, Sam sometimes seems to slip into an alternate personality, one that possesses the ability to psychically know things that he otherwise shouldn't.. Then, one night, Forrest encounters a terrifying being that may be connected to Sam's strange abilities.Check out our Merch⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow us on:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠For business inquiries contact: [e-mail] you have experienced something paranormal or unexplained, email us your story at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[e-mail]

Welcome to Otherworld. I am your host, Jack Wagner. This story comes from somebody named Forrest. They are a 34-year-old who currently lives in Boulder, Colorado. But Forrest was born and raised in Melbourne. Not Melbourne, Australia, but Melbourne, Florida. And that is where the story in this episode takes place. And to me, this is a very Floridian episode. Florida is a strange place, and Forrest had a very unusual upbringing in Florida. He grew up in a foster family. Eventually in high school, Forrest made a friend named Sam. These two instantly clicked, and they even moved in together after they turned 18.

But not long into their friendship in high school, something about Sam seemed a little off. This episode is called The Other Sam, and you're listening to Otherworld. Bobby, at its core of the science, you can't argue. I'm worried about all the science. Open the sky. It's almost frustrating that it's happening. I'm going to die. I'm going to die.

It's like, wrong. Everybody moves back into the light, even if it takes them a minute. My name is Forrest. I'm 34. I currently live in Boulder, Colorado. I was born and raised in Melbourne, Florida. Currently my main job is I am an on-call caretaker for my partner's elderly mother. I also have a part-time job where I stock shelves for a local grocery store. And in my free time, I'm also a, I do video game streaming on Twitch.

Melbourne, you know, it's not like a huge city. It's right on the east coast of Florida. It's, you know, like give or take. maybe like an hour drive to the Kennedy Space Center. It's like right there. Growing up, it was just my mom and my grandma and me. My family situation was always kind of rough. When I was around six, my mother decided she didn't want to be part of the family anymore. So she just kind of left me in the care of my grandmother. And I was living with my grandmother until she passed away when I was in my teens. I ended up living with my uncle after that, but there was some

complications with that. So I ended up in like the foster care system for a couple of years until I was 18 and then I was pretty much on my own from there, which it's, you know, it's not an uncommon story. You know, these things happen. I try not to dwell on it too much. I just kind of feel like, you know, that was the hand I was dealt, and I did the best I could with the knowledge I had at the time, and now I'm here today. So my grandmother passed away when I was 13, 14 in that area. She had developed lung cancer from many years of smoking. And, yeah, she ended up, you know, not surviving, unfortunately. So I went into, live with my uncle.

He lived in the same town. It was him, his aunt, and their four kids. And basically, the toll of having a fifth kid they weren't able to deal with, you know, so they handed me off to the state, essentially. From there, I went to, like, a group home with other, like, teenagers before I got placed to the foster home. I was with them until I was 18. It was a very cool couple.

They were a little weird. they were a member of the city like orchid society so they had this little like handmade greenhouse in their backyard that had like 200 species of orchids in it it was like

it was like weird but also like kind of cool because it's like why you know so like I was with them until I was 18 in the state of Florida when you turn 18 in the foster care program

you receive a stipend, and I would get that as long as I was in school. It was in my junior year at that high school where I had met my friend Sam, which we will talk about. I met him through my girlfriend at the time. She introduced me to her friend, and her friend's boyfriend was Sam. Yeah, so I meet him, and we pretty much hit it off right away. We liked all the same bands, and we loved all the same video games.

We had the same slightly dark sense of humor. We like even like almost kind of had the same fashion sense. It was kind of like two brothers meeting that had never met. It was like we were just so similar to each other. We were that like 2010s like rocker. You know, like hot topic, Spencer is a metal militia. You know, bantees and torn deans. hoodies in the middle of summer.

That would describe me and him and my girlfriend. His girlfriend was kind of more of that like you know, that 2000's like goth girl like black makeup, black lipstick, black nails, the like big

baggy pants with the chains all over them. And our like group of friends was kind of like a mishmash at that. You had like pungy, rocky, gothy, just teens in the 2010s. When I first met him, he had like this long hair, you know, I went down to like his shoulder blades. He always had like these deep brown,

like if you imagine the purest brown eyes. He was just such a nice guy. But eventually I did meet what the friend group would call other Sam. So the first time that this happened. It was the four of us. We were at a cafe. It's one of these ones that's like open 24 hours breakfast all day, but they only served breakfast. And we're just hanging out there. We're all in our booth. And this is the first time I had experienced it. It was like that moment when someone says

something really awkward and it sucks all the air of the room and everybody gets really quiet. And it's not like one person said something. it was just like there was a shift in like the aura around us that caused everybody to pause and like his body language was like a different person normally he's kind of like relaxed a little bit fluid he was like rigid like sitting up lightly like you're like at like a CEO's meeting it was a completely different vibe in the air coming off of him. It wasn't until

like maybe like the third time that this had happened that he had said something weird. And I was like, what do you mean when you say stuff like that? Like, because even like as a teenager, like I'm aware of like mental disorders and things that can happen to the human brain. Basically those were my thoughts at the time is that

it was just like a mental thing. And by the end of the dinner, like before we left, So it was like when we were like paying, he had flipped back again. And he was like, oh, are we done? It was like, yeah, we just finished. We're about to pay the check. And he was like, oh, it must have happened again.

Like, I'm sorry that you had to deal with that. He said that he didn't remember the whole rest of the dinner after it happened. Basically, it's like he was talking to us and the next thing he knew we were standing up and paying. He didn't remember eating his food. I mean, like, it was a little awkward. Like I said, it's kind of like that situation where someone says something that's like out of pocket and everybody's like the tone of the room changes for a bit. And like, you know, like you have a conversation and you get past it. He was basically like, I didn't say anything weird, did I?

I didn't like throw anything or anything. I didn't freak out. We were like, no, you were pretty calm for most of the interviews. Like, okay, good. I wouldn't want to have caused the scene, you know? but yeah he couldn't remember anything for like that whole like hour we were eating the next like big time that this happened we were at the birthday party for this girl i believe her name was like arwin or something it was a very Tolkien name we were at her birthday party

and we were you know like we were having a good time me him and some some other guy i was at the party I can't remember their name, but we were talking. And, like, I feel it again. Like, I feel like the air gets sucked out of the room. The party is still going on, but I can sense that something's different. And I just look at Sam, and I can see him, you know, like, his body language is different again. He's straightened up. I'm like, oh, okay, here we go again.

And he, but I can tell, like, he's kind of anxious. Like, up until then, he's been. kind of calm, just, you know, he talks weirder, you know, acts a little weirder, but it was nothing out of ordinary. This time, he, like, he's looking real anxious, I look at him, like, hey, man, what's going on? Are you all right?

And he, he looks at me and, like, normally these, like, bright, you know, like, brown eyes, it's almost like there's, like, a little bit of a dullness to him this time. And he goes, someone's going to die here in a few minutes and said, I don't want to be here.

I was like, what? What do you mean someone's going to die here? Like, we're just having a birthday party. We're all like, we're all like 18, 19. Like, nothing's going to happen. Like, no one's even drinking here, which, you know, we kind of did at that age because we had like older friends. They were able to get, you know, liquor for us. So we kind of started drinking in like 18, 19.

Then he's like, no, someone's going to die here in a few minutes. I don't want to be here when it happens. I'm going to leave. And he started walking out the door. I was like, well, you know, like, you were my ride here, so I guess I'm going to go with you. So I leave with him. You know, like, I apologize. Like, we're going to go.

It was great being here. He didn't switch back until we got home. He was, like, laser focused. Like, no, this is happening. I'm leaving. Like, right now, I'm going to my car. And, like, you know, he just walked right out the house to the car. I was like, you know, all right, all right, wait, I'm coming to.

and we just drove home and we pretty much drove in silence for like 25 minutes until we were home and it wasn't until we were on the doorstep and we're on lock in the door that he like snaps back and he's like

oh what are we doing here? I thought we were at Arwen's birthday party and I was like no you you said something weird and just wanted to leave and I and you were just gone so I left with you at the time he was in this

he always would do this he would always apologize he's like oh I'm sorry I hope I didn't say anything too weird I hope I didn't like miss anything up because I don't think he like he never fully knew what he was doing because he would have like that missing time and I imagine that like you know if you're somebody who once like once a week just like hours of your day

disappear and you're and you're magically somewhere else that that's like really stressful and that you're going to be like oh I'm sorry I hope I didn't do anything so he was kind of stressed out about it especially since this was kind of like a big gathering with all of our friends he he didn't want to do anything on Cuth you know and it was two days later it was Monday when I went back to school and I saw my girlfriend like it during one of the downtime in between period. And she's like, did you leave the party this weekend? I was like,

yeah, Sam, you know, Sam was saying something weird and he was like really anxious about it. So we left. Like, why, what happened? And she's like, Arwen's dog died during the party. Like, there was a whole big thing. She was

crying. The party was over. We all had to console her. And I was like, oh, I was like, what the fuck? How did my first thought was more how did he know like i didn't even know she had a dog the dog wasn't even like walking around during the party and now he's saying that like he said someone was going to die and now i'm being told that like not even like two hours after he said that and left the dog died it was just this weird coincidence but you know it like it almost felt like he predicted

it somehow? It's part of me makes it feel like this is like a threatening statement almost. Like did any part of you wonder like did he do that to the dog? Like it's weird to you know the timing of it is strange.

The Sam I know would not hurt an animal and the limited times that I was with this other Sam I didn't get the sense that they were dangerous either like sure he was

you know maybe a bit more you know like focused and serious but I don't think he had done anything to the dog and like I said I was talking to him and someone else when the switch happened

and he started saying this like I had eyes on him before he had his like mental switch so like I didn't see him do anything and I don't remember him like sneaking into her bedroom where the dog was or anything like that the next time

that he said something weird was almost like the complete opposite type of common so this was like 2018 this was our favorite band at the time was

the band Avenge Sevenfold and this was right around the time when their drummer had died he died of an overdose and Sam was like huge into events sevenfold like uh he he very famously cried at one of their shows and we all kind of made fun of him for it it was like his favorite band of the world and like one of the members just died and you know he was you know he was in that like fan morning stage so he so he's you know he's super bummed out he's so sad like a member of

his favorite band just passed away and he's mourning. And, you know, like, we're just, we're, we're sitting there on the couch in my apartment. We're watching the TV. And I just feel him, I could feel him shift next to me. You know, again, the air just changes. And I, I, like, look over to him. I'm like, hey, man, what's going on? You know, like, at this point, you're like, all right, I just should just expect this.

I'm just going to treat him normally. I'm not going to act like he's a different person, you know. this is still Sam you know like Sam's still there so like I'm just going to treat him normally and I'm like hey man what's going on he's like I'm just kind of thinking about death and stuff

and he looks at me and he goes do you think your grandma felt the cancer in her lungs when she got it and I just look at him with I think maybe the most dumbfounded face of him because like

it wasn't a secret like I had told him you know my grandma to die, she died of cancer. I never told him what kind of cancer. I was like, how do you know it's, how do you know it was lung cancer? I don't think I've ever told you that. And he's like, I just kind of know, like, I could, I can tell from you that your grandma died this way.

And I'm just like, what the fuck? You know, like, not saying it out loud, but in my head, I'm like, like, oh, he's either fully crazy right now or like he's been like doing research about me behind my back kind of thing because like he should not know this. So from there

like I started like questioning, you know because like he's all right so like I'm like okay so he has this weird mental thing where he switches for any reason he predicted that

someone was going to die in that same night one of our friends' dogs died now he's like saying something about like my past that he shouldn't know so I'm like I'm kind of dwelling on this you know I'm like trying to like

what is going like I did get like a little bit paranoid I'm like you know did he do something is he looking into me without me knowing is this some kind of weird like

at this point is it just kind of like some kind of social experiment. He's like playing on friends or some shit like that. So like I started having questions. Two weeks after that was his next switch. And that time, I was like, okay, I'm going to ask other Sam some questions. Like, I'm now going to treat him like differently. I need to know what exactly the extent of this is. So, like, he switches this time. We were at home.

And this is the example that I've told, the few people that I've told this publicly, is one of the things I asked other Sam was, how old are you? You know, Sam's 20 at this point. He goes, right now I'm 20, but once I was 80. And, like, you're like, what? what you mean? So like some past life stuff and he's like, no, I just used to be 80 and now I'm 20. And he would say, he would say cryptic stuff if you ever tried to talk to him about him when he was switched, if that makes sense. It's like this other personality didn't want to be clear when talking about itself.

So it'd be, if it wasn't like something like that, it'd be like, oh, I'm older than the trees. is like, hey, other Sam, what's your favorite food? It's like, oh, they don't make my favorite food anymore. People forgot how to make that food. Stuff like that. I've always been of the mindset that if I can't prove it's fake, who am I to say it's not real? You know, I now know he does this because I'm experiencing it. I can feel it happening.

I can see the changes in him. So I know there's something there. So like if it wasn't for like the like I want to call it like ominous it was like an ominous feeling whatever he changed. It just felt like when he changed something was going to happen. It might not be now, it might not be tomorrow, but something is going to happen. And if he'll say something and you're like, that's going to happen. Or he'll say something you're like, how do you know that? you shouldn't know that.

So it's like he was getting like, I don't want to say like something was telling him, but he just had this knowledge of like things that are going to happen soon and things that happened in the past that he would have no way of knowing either way. And it just baffled me. So like, you know, the weeks go by.

I'm talking to him. I'm talking to the other him. And every time it's like, if it's not a. about him, it's just whatever. It's a normal conversation. If it's about him, it starts getting weird. Again, like, if it hadn't happened to me,

I would say, like, you were lying if you told me this story. But, like, I believe, like, deep down that, like, this wasn't, like, being faked at this point. So, basically, there was only two ways that he knew what happened

when he switched. It was either one of us telling him, like someone who experienced it with him told him. If it happened and no one is around, no one knows, you know? Like if he was home alone and he switched, no one would have known about it. But then there was some rare occasions where the other Sam actually wrote notes to himself

to tell him what he did while he was switched. The biggest example of this, there's two big examples I can think of. There was one night we were asleep. Like, I came home from work. He was already asleep. I went to bed. Woke up, he was gone.

I didn't hear from him for a week. A week goes by and he calls me. And I'm like, dude, where are you? Where are you okay? Like, I came home and you were here and you've been gone. And he goes, yeah, I'm in Georgia. I woke up in the cabin that my parents used to rent when I was a kid. and there's a note here and $5,000.

And the note, he showed me to note, I've held the note in my hands. And it says, Sam, you're welcome for the money. You might want to throw away the baseball bat. And I'm going to say allegedly because there was never, like, as far as I know, there was never investigation or anything that connects, that I know that connects him to a crime.

But it was reported, like, later that a gas station, was robbed by a guy in a ski mask with a baseball bat. Yeah, it's crazy. I've known his handwriting. He has, like, you know, like, nice handwriting. But this note, it was like, it was like chicken scratch, you know? So I told him, it was like, I was like, one, you're crazy. Two, what are you going to do?

And he's like, well, I don't know. I guess I'm going to drive back and try to spend some of this money. like he said, I don't have the pictures anymore. It's been like forever, you know. But like he's shown me he's like, it's like two stacks of cash and this note. And there's like a baseball bat in the cabin with him. And I'm like, Sam, this is serious, you know. We'll gloss over the fact that maybe you have switched personalities and committed a crime.

You know, we're just going to glance over that. Just get back home safe. you know, like I'm fucking worried about you. You've been AWOL on everybody for a week. Like his parents couldn't get him that week. I couldn't get him that week. His girlfriend couldn't get him that week. So it's like, okay, just get home, you know.

And that was like, I think the most serious thing that ever happened. There was another time where a similar thing happened, where he switched, lost the time, and he found a note that told him that they broke into a car and stole a phone. And sure enough, we found out that a car, the apartment complex next to our complex, a car got broken into, and like a phone, a wallet,

and a couple of things were stolen out of that car. And I'm going to say, again, allegedly, because, like, I don't have any proof that he did this. I wouldn't say we lived in a bad area, but we were, like, in an area where stuff happened. So, you know, it wasn't out of the ordinary, but it just seemed like, okay, now whatever's going on with you is starting to, like, commit rhymes. So we need to, like, get you to a psychologist or something. Because if something, if this, like, turns out to be you, you need to be able to deal with this.

And I don't think he wanted to accept that he was doing those kind of things. because like the normal Sam I know wouldn't do those things and then like out of the blue you you get these like letters from like a mysterious third party saying hey we committed a crime better hide the evidence you know it's like what do you do with that when you're 18 19 living on your own what he ended up doing is he ended up buying a guitar on the way here

it was like a $3,000 guitar and he showed up and he was a mess like he was in the clothes that he fell asleep in So, like, he had the one set of clothes for, like, a week. And, you know, it was like, he was sweaty. He was, he was like, oh, my God, I can't believe I did that. I don't know what. It's like, am I going to go to jail? And I'm like, no, I'm not going to, you know, I'm not going to tell the police.

We can't, they can't prove that you did this. Just like, just kind of, you know, relax. You know, like, throw the note away, burn it or something, you know. I know it kind of sounds like, you know, like, we're trying to cover up a crime here. But, like, this is some weird stuff. again, like, I did the best I could with the knowledge I had, you know. And it's like, I'm 18, you know, I'm not going to jail for my crazy best friend, you know. That was the last, like, big thing before things really snowballed.

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Monitors your spending and helps lower your bills so you could grow your savings. Let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. Join at rockamoney.com slash otherworld. That's rockamoney.com slash otherworld. Whispers in the dark. Phenomenon that slip past to logic. Legends that refuse to die. In the unknown stirs, its trail leads to our podcast, So Supernatural.

I'm Yvette Jentele. And I'm her sister, Rasha Pecorero. Together, we explore all of the world's most bizarre mysteries. Listen to So Supernatural every Friday, wherever you get your podcast. Now we skip ahead a little bit. It's 2011 now. he ends up breaking up with Kara, the girl that he's been dated this whole time.

And not just him, but the other him, both of them just almost lose it. Like, this breakup is so bad that it affects both sides of him. And I never got a clear answer. I talked to her at the time. I talked to him at the time. It's my understanding that

the other Sam said something to her and it was the last straw and she no longer wanted to be with him because of his other self. So like he had a switch. He said something to her. She was like, I'm done with you and this. And so she broke up with him. And after that, he started getting really into the occult. He starts getting, you know, he starts looking into a, Quica, paganism, because she was kind of into that stuff, you know, because she's like that, like, pagan goth style girl, you know, like, the most I know is like she, like, she had some crystals. Maybe she did like a little candle ritual every once in a while to pass the test or something like that. But she wasn't like doing like curses or stuff like that, you know, like that typical like teenage, ooh, we're doing magic, you know, like we got the candle from the spirit store. So I think it started as a way for him to try to get back with her kind of, you know, like trying to like go into something that she had like a vague interest of, but like going too far into it.

He got a Ouija board brought to the house. He bought a pendulum that was listed on eBay as being haunted. He turned our laundry room into which it wasn't really a laundry room. The apartment had a room with connections, but we didn't have the money for a washer dryer. So it was just like an empty storage room. He turned it into like his like little ritual chamber. So I come home. This was after one of my college classes because I'm still taking the college classes at this time.

But like it's like two classes during the day and then I'll get free for the rest of the day. So like I did my college classes. I came back. It's maybe like 2 p.m. in the afternoon. And I come in, all the lights are off. And I can see there's light in our laundry slash storage room

and the door is closed. And I'm like, okay, this is weird. I didn't leave that light on. So I'm just going to turn it off a quick. I don't know where Sam is, but whatever. So like, you know, I open the door.

Like, I'm not thinking there's going to be anything in there. You know, so I don't knock or whatever. I just open the door. Like, why would I suspect there's anything in there? And yeah, he has this black cloth, maybe like the size of like a regular rug. It's just like solid black.

He, like, had, like, it was either, like, white paint or chalk, and he had, like, drawn, like, a whole elaborate pentagram with symbols and rings around it. And he had, like, his little altar that he had set up when he started doing all this occult stuff. And I walk in. And he, like, he, like, he stops what he's doing. He looks up at me, you know, he wasn't expecting me to be home, obviously. And I see he has, like, you know, like, they call him, like, at a theme or something like that. It's, like, a knife you use for, like, pagan rituals. and he has that in one hand

and his other hand is just like slit fully across the palm and like he's bleeding like into the middle of the circle that he made and like I at the time I was just pissed I was furious I'm like dude like no fucking like the books

the candles the stones all that shit I'm fine with we are not doing like you know basically a fucking satanic ritual in my fucking apartment like what are you doing and I like freaked down on him and I think that was like the first time that me and him actually got into like almost like a physical fight.

I was overcome with rage that he would do something this extreme in our house. I was like, what the fuck are you doing? You know, like he gets up and he's like, you know, like he puts the like the knife down at his altar and he's like he's like yelling at me. Like at one point like I just, I grabbed the rug and I like fucking like flip. it over and like threw it to the side of the room and it's like we are not doing this i am not dealing with this you're done like you are not doing this in this house we are setting a rule right now this never again and like uh at this point like i'm yelling at him this is normal him like well i'm yelling at him you know because like at this point you know like i can tell which one i'm talking to

and i'm like he's like no he's like no like you don't understand it's not like as bad as it seems I'm like, I do not care. Do not try to justify this to me. You're done. I am not going to deal with that. Like, it's like, because I'm like, what's going to happen next, Sam? Am I going to come up next weekend? There's going to be a decapitated goat or something in our apartment?

Like, no, we are stopping this now before it gets, like, into serious danger. Like, you just cut yourself. What do you mean? And it just, it was just this big argument. And, you know, like, we were, we were so close to, like, almost, like, physically fighting. And I'm not usually a very angry person, but when I saw this, I was just overcome with rage. I'm like, this was like my last straw almost.

I wouldn't say like you could see bone, but it was like deep enough that we went and got him stitches. I mean, it was maybe like an hour later after we had had the fight and calmed down and be like, you know, like we put, we hadn't like wrapped it up and stuff. But like, you know, he was like bleeding through the bandage. like, no, we really need to go. We'll just say, like, you fell, you, like, grabbed something and cut your hand or whatever, so.

So it kind of doled down from there, never did any type of thing like that, at least not in the house that I know of. If he did it outside of the house, I don't know. There was other stuff too going off that. Like, at one point, he was convinced that there was, like, a girl that was haunting the playground across the street, and he would go there, like, in the middle of the night

with his Ouija board to talk to her and stuff like that. So I don't know. It was, it was like the breakup with his girlfriend, you know, like broke him to. I think like he did have good intentions when he first started. But then I think like based on what happens next, that his intentions got warped by this other personality inside of him. So this is fall 2011. It's me,

Sam, and my friend at the time, his name is Kyle. And so we're sitting on the couch. Sam is sitting on the floor. I remember, like,

the exact things he was playing. He had a Nintendo 64 sit up. He was playing Mario Part 64. Just by himself, he was like, because he was like trying to get like better at it. Like he wanted to be, like his old scores.

And we had got some weed. We were smoking. And like, we weren't like super high. I had maybe had like two hits when this happened. So I was like, I was fine. So we're, so me and Kyle were on the couch and we're sitting there. We're watching Sam. And like Kyle just starts coughing.

You know, like he like he choked. Like you take a drink and you choke and you start coughing. And he like, he like starts slapping like arm. And I'm like, what, dude? What? any points and we both look and we look down the hall. So the way the apartment is set up is you have the living room and an attached kitchen and then there's like a little hall and that has three doors.

So that's the bathroom, the bedroom, and the utility room. So it's like a big rectangle. And peeking out from our bedroom is this tall creature. Its head is up to the doorframe. It has this big head, but like the eyes are like gone. So it's just like these big sockets. Like you could probably put like a fist in each of the sockets. It was that big.

No mouth. Its skin is just red, like a rusty, you know, like Dr. Pepper can kind of red. Its fingertips are black. That kind of like if you have frostbite in your like in your finger and it turns black, that's what his fingertips look like. and it's leaning out from our bedroom, looking into the living room, me and Kyle, and it's just holding out to the doorframe, leaning out. Well, my first thought is, what the fuck is that?

We need to go in there. My second thought is, like, this summer, I caught Sam doing that ritual. Sam has summoned a demon in my house, and I'm going to die. It's going to kill me and my friends tonight. I saw that. Like, that wasn't a hallucination, because, Kyle saw it too. We both saw it. So it's like there's no way that we're both hallucinating this. My heart was like in my throat. For a good like 10 minutes, I was so sure that like we are dead.

Like there's a monster here. It is going to kill us. It was terrifying. It was like time stopped. It's like a moment encapsulated. You don't know what to do. You don't know what's going on. You're seeing something you've never seen before. 19 years old with just like your friends that are your same age. And it was just supposed to be a nice night of playing like video games. And then all of a sudden it's like everything slipped upside down. And like we're all like scared. It's like something I'll never forget.

It's like burned into my brain. Yeah. So we get up, we get up from the couch like immediately. We rush to that door and it's like maybe 10 feet from the couch. We look into the bedroom and the way the bedroom is set up, It's like my bed. There's a nightstand. There's Sam's bed.

You know, it's very simple, you know, like two guys, one bedroom apartment kind of layout. And it's the window's not open. The blinds aren't even open. Like there's the sheets. The beds are all still made. The closet's not even open. There is nothing in the room. There's like no lights on, but you can, but there's enough light coming from the living room that you can see everything in there.

And it was just empty. It was if it was as if it just disenfranchised. disappeared. It was never there. And we were like, we checked the closet. We opened the blinds of the ghost side. We check under the beds. We don't see anything. And we're like, we're panicking for a good two minutes. We're like, what the fuck? What the hell? What is this? Like, daintily afraid for our lives in that moment. And we come back out. You know, Sam is still like, Chris Cross on the floor playing his game. He looks up at us and he's like, what, what's wrong? Why did you guys rush into the bedroom real quick. And we're like, dude, we saw this fucked up thing and we described it to him. And he's,

you know, he's confused because he's like, how did you see that? I've seen it before, but I've only seen it in dreams. And we're both looking at each other and looking back at him, just dumbfounded. And there's like, there's still like this air of like, we're going to die. You know, like, we are genuinely afraid for our lives. And now my friend is telling me like, oh, yeah, that thing that you saw that's causing this, I've seen it before my dreams, and he's not even like afraid. They're like, dude, what do you mean? You should be panicking right now. And, uh, you know, we kind of just sat there in the room and like he went back to his game. He's like, he was trying not to think about it. We were sitting there. We were like, we were on edge all night until,

until Kyle left. You know, shortly after that, Kyle basically messaged me to you. He was like, I don't know what that was. I don't want to see it again. I don't think I'm going to come over anymore. And then I never heard from him again. Did you have any further conversation with Sam about this? I would only bring it up to like the normal hymn because I feel like, I feel like normal, normal Sam was the one that was having these dreams, you know?

I don't know if ultimate personalities could dream. I don't know, you know, I don't know how the human mind did that enough. I don't think anybody knows that much about the human mind. But I'm talking to him. He's like, yeah, like, I've seen it in my dreams every once in a while. Usually when something bad happens, you know, like intensify, like, your real world issues into, like, a horror scenario in your dreams. And that's how he described it to me. I don't even know what to think at this point.

I know there's like the occult ritual stuff. Like, what is this? Did you summon this recently? Has this thing always been with you messing with you? messing with you. We were living together for a little bit after that. Nothing, nothing to that level ever happened again. Whatever if, whenever he switched, we, I wouldn't bring it up, you know, like, because

like, there's also like the thought in my head. It's like, what if, like, because, you know, this is a cult stuff going on. What if this other personality has been like a possession this whole time? And I just saw what was possessing or something. I don't want to talk to it now. and bring up that I saw it, if that's what's going on. Eventually, he moved out over an argument about someone that he started seeing. Like December, he started seeing this girl.

She had a cat. That's not the issue. Like, I have three cats myself. I love them. But she had a cat. She brought it into the apartment. It was infested with fleas. this one

one-year-old kitten somehow infested my entire apartment with fleas to the point where you could step out of bed and put your foot on the carpet and there'd be like 50 fleas on your foot I was like no she has to get the cat out he let her keep the cat there

because her parents wouldn't let her keep the cat at their house oh gee I wonder why Sam look at this and you know like that led to a fight where he's like you know what if you're not going to support me with this girl then I'm just going to

move out and me and her will get a place and we'll have the cat there and I'm like that's what you want to do fine you know and he moved out shortly after that I do not know if he's with this girl still the last time I tried to talk to him was in 23 so it was a long time before I actually talked to him again the last bit of my time in Florida was like I finished up school I ended up going to to India for a couple of months it was part of the studies I was doing because I was taking a course in religious studies. And I got the opportunity to go abroad for three months and study, you know, a religion firsthand. So I ended up going to India for a couple of months.

But I came back to Florida and, you know, this was my first time actually traveling out of state, seeing the world. And, like, I came back and I remember, like, I'm just sitting there, like, it's the same apartment, you know. But it's just me now. And I've just felt like, I feel like I am suffocating. And that's when I just took, like, all the money I had. I ended up getting on a greyhound and coming out to Colorado. And, you know, like, I was homeless. I was homeless out in Colorado, like, in Denver for maybe, like, a couple months.

I found a job right away. So I wasn't, you know, like, homeless for long. And I was renting a house from a guy. And that's how I ended up meeting my partner. And meet my partner and been together ever since. So, like, I kind of just, like, like after you know experiencing like the bigger world out there like I just felt like I needed to spread my wings that I kind of just left like I didn't tell any of my friends where I was going I didn't like even talk to like the girl that I was dating for like those two years until like five years after I had already moved to Colorado it was nothing to do with like anybody it was just me it's like I need to see the world this leads into like new information that I received later.

This was, if I'm getting my time right, it was either 2018 or 2019. It was right before the pandemic. Me and my partner, we were working at the Stanley Hotel. They were doing a film festival. We were working with the film festival. You might know the Stanley Hotel, they have a resident psychic. She's been there for many years. We all ended up as me, my partner, and his friend,

who was also working there. She was the one that told us about it. We're like, hell yeah, we want to do that. That sounds fun. We each had like some readings. It was just like private one-on-one. And that's when she tells me that I have, she has a message for me.

And I'm like, a message for me. It's like, I don't know anybody who's died recently, you know? And she goes, well, I'm like, all right, so what's the message? and she says that I have a message from Sam. And my first thought is, my heart just drops. Like, I'm kind of like reliving it, like, hearing that. Like, I'm like getting a little bit emotional right now.

Because, like, my first thought is like, oh, my God, my best friend is dead. Okay, not what I wanted to hear. Tell me more. And she's like, I have a message from Sam, and he says, a Sam is fine I'm the other Sam I want to let you know that I'm going to leave him alone and at that point

I was speechless like what you know it was like this weird bombshell that was like unrelated to everything at this point but somehow like connected to everything and like so I'm like okay so how do I process this now

and basically what I was told was that it wasn't like a spirit or like a demon or anything attached to him. It was more like a psychic manifestation

of his other personality. So like I'm taking this information. I'm reliving everything back in my head. I'm like, so what you're telling me is like that night when we saw like the most terrifying thing I've ever seen in my life that it was like his other personality

psychically projecting itself so that we could see what it looked like. And she was like, yes, that's exactly what I'm telling you. After that, I got furloughed from my job during the pandemic. I got like super depressed.

I got it, you know, like I was getting unemployment, but like, you know, like I'm stuck at home. There's a pandemic. I don't have anything to do. I can't leave the house. I'm like so,

so depressed. And I start seeing it in my dream. Never saw it in real life ever, except for that one time. But I started seeing it in my dreams. And it was the same thing. It's like, oh, I'm worried about the pandemic. Dream about everybody I know, like, dying from being sick, you know.

Oh, I'm worried about, like, not getting a job again, like, dreaming about, like, dying homeless and jobless and stuff like that. It was like everything I worried about, I would get dreams that were like a thousand times worse than what I actually had to worry about. And which was strange for me is because I have always been the kind of person where like my dreams don't have me in them. Like I always have like those like cinematic movie dreams. If I'm ever actually in my own dream, then it's going to be like a nightmare kind of thing. the last time I ever dreamt of this thing was in late summer 22 because this is when I had a cat that passed away. It was my first pet as an adult, so it hurt like a lot.

My cat, like he was playing one morning and then just fell over. We rushed him to the ER. He had a pulmonary embolism, so there was. literally nothing they could do. You know, we unfortunately had to put the cat to rest and, you know, it was terrible. And

I had a dream maybe a month later where I'm in my, like, the new apartment, like present day, the one I'm still in now. And I'm alone. And there's no furniture anywhere. It's like I'm in my apartment, but it's empty.

And it's just me. And I'm looking around, and I'm like, where is everything? Where's my stuff? And I see my cat. And it's like sitting, like the one that just passed away. And it's sitting on a window sill and like the window is open. And I'm like, oh, I was like, oh, you're here. I'm like, I get like this sense in my dream that this is not going to be a nightmare. This is like my cat coming in the check of me one last time. So it's like, you know, like the dream is like, you know, like this is so bad, you know. And then just these two red hands with black fingertips and black nails. come out of the darkness, through the window, grab my cat, and yank it into the darkness. And I wake up bolting into a sitting position just out of breath. And I never saw it again. I do not think that it had anything to do with my cat passing away.

And I think it again, it was this, like, extrapolating, like making it so much worse than what had actually happened. And, like, making me have a night. it was like burned into my psyche i have never had any any experience with missing time that's like i never had any of all that he had i just saw it in my dreams and i don't know if it was like you know it was a very ominous message that the psychic gave me because it was like i'm going to leave sam alone oh but now i'm seeing is it it's like whatever this was coming to me. And like, based on like my conversation with the psychic and like a second psychic

that I saw another time is that their impression from the messages they received. And these were both both of these were like separate but like widely considered to be legitimate psychics. We're like, this was a psychic manifestation created by him. And like you seeing it has put like a little a sliver in your head. So it's like an imprint. So you're going to associate things to it. And that's what it wanted. I feel, I feel like whatever this was.

Yeah, I genuinely feel that he had this other personality that, you know, like had some kind of knowledge that it shouldn't have. And it somehow, like, you know, manifested itself. separate from him and it's burned into my memory because it's actually like there's a I guess it's like there's a concept of something

called a Tulpa which is like if you imagine something so much and believe in something so strongly and it does become real I think that's what was happening with me and him and all of this

like some supernatural force that's like psychic in origin, not spiritual, like something like on that like mental I don't know, like you call it like a mental plane or something, not like the spiritual plane, but like that higher mind

and it was like the higher mind letting us know that there is like something else I don't know how to explain it any further. It's just like something that'll pop up

now every once in a while that I don't think it's directly doing it. I think it's like burned into like my mind because of just how shocking it was. And now like having seen it, I associate stuff to it. And I think that's what it wanted. I don't think it ever like wanted to possess him.

I think it wants if it was like some kind of possession thing. I think it just wanted this other personality wanted people to know that it was around. And I wanted people to remember that it was around. I tried to reach out to Sam like a couple times. Like when I started doing my video game streaming, he has like a hobby. I was like, hey man, do you want to like, do work with me on this? Like, you like do music.

You can like make like some music for me or something like that. And he was like into that. And then he like dropped out of it because of stuff was going on. He's not really active on social media. Like I tried, I tried reaching out to him like just like two weeks ago. And I was like, hey man, I'm thinking about you. Like, are you doing okay? and he hasn't respond yet.

But, like, his last post that I saw was, uh, 2023, he had got a new car and he was like all excited about his new car. So, like, I, I assume he's okay. I haven't really been able to talk to him, like, in depth about the things that happened after me and him left, just that we know each other are okay and, like, alive. And, like, want to still be friends, but we haven't really, because of, like, distance, and work schedules, and the whole pandemic hit. So, like, we never really got to, like,

getting back into, like, that deep conversation and, like, me being able to ask him, if, like, is this still going on with you? You know, looking back, Sam, I would still consider him my best friend, even today, even though we barely talked in, like, 15, 20 years. Because we, our connection, like, we were so deep. We were, like, the best friends.

We were inseparable. and like this crazy series events happened to us and like if he listened to this and or if he ever replies to me I would just want to know that you know he's doing okay and I would want the opportunity to talk to him and be like hey I was told this you know like I got a message saying it's leaving you alone has it are you are you not is this not happening to you anymore there's just like that one like thread that's like loose that I haven't like tied up I really like some closure one way or the other. Okay, thank you so much to Forrest for sharing this experience with us.

I worked with Forrest to try to track down and contact Sam. We ultimately did find him, I think, on the internet. Both myself and Forrest reached out multiple times to talk to him but did not have any luck. We hoped that if we could talk to him, we could ask about whether this altar actually did leave him alone, like the psychic explained, but also I think more than anything, Forrest was just hoping for some closure on this very strange saga that unfolded during the most formative years of his life. While Sam was never officially diagnosed with anything, to many listeners, including myself, it's hard not to think this sounds very similar to dissociative identity disorder. Now,

that disorder is very controversial in its own right. People have a lot of different opinions on that. So I don't even think that would be a very clean explanation if you were to believe that. But while it is very possible Sam was struggling with this disorder or something else, it still leaves the question, what was that strange creature they all saw that shared the same description of what had been repeatedly haunting Sam in his dreams? Not only that, what about all the other strange things that happened over the course of their friendship? One thing I wanted to mention is I found that part about the dog particularly unnerving.

When Forrest first told me about this, I asked him, is there a chance that Sam somehow killed this dog? And that's how he knew about it. Forrest told me that this would be extremely unlikely, something that he never even thought about himself. Just given the way that this dog passed away, it didn't seem to involve foul play. And also, as strange as this story is, I don't think Forrest thought his friend Sam would be capable of doing such a thing. And why would he do such a thing? I wanted to mention it because it did cross my mind. That being said, I think if that was the case, it would only make this whole thing even weirder.

A really interesting aspect of this story for me is the concept of the other Sam being a tulpa or thought form. This is an idea that was introduced to Forrest by the psychic he visited. For context, a tulpa is a psychic manifestation of concentrated thought and emotional energy that can autonomously enact its own personal will. This idea comes from the cross-colder. cultural exchange between theosophical and Tibetan Buddhist thought in the early 1900s. A similar idea to Tulpa's is Egregors.

This is a term which goes all the way back to the Book of Enoch, which describes watchers or fallen angels that give humans hidden knowledge. Modern occultists use this term today to describe an independent psychic entity that is created out of the collective thought, emotions, and the rituals of a group. Basically, to sum that all up, this is the idea that you can will something into existence purely by believing in it really hard.

And I think that's an interesting way to look at this story. The other Sam, being a Tulpa or Egregore, made sense to me thinking about the way the whole friend group was aware of Sam's altar, but most especially forest, and he was perhaps feeding it with a kind of concentrated psychic power that ultimately allowed it to manifest itself

into that strange entity they saw when they're hanging out. This is an idea that I think about sometimes and one that can apply to so many episodes of other world, the idea that even if there was an explanation for something, you could then will it into existence by believing in it hard enough. I think no matter what you think about this story, explanations, or otherwise, this is ultimately the story of Forrest going through a very, very strange saga with his closest friend during

a really important part of his life. I was hoping to get some more answers for Forrest. Maybe those will come one day if we ever hear back from Sam. Again, this episode has been called The Other Sam. and you've been listening to Otherworld. Otherworld is executive produced and hosted by myself, Jack Wagner. Our producers are Theo Schaefer,

Theo Krantz, Haley Pearson, and Nikki Kate Delgado. Our theme song is by Cobra Man. The soundtrack of this episode is by Wiccalfe's Springs Eternal, Juice Jackal, and North Americans. Our artwork is by Coltysack Studios. Please show us your support by subscribing,

leaving a five-star review, and telling your friends about the show. If you want to hear bonus episodes of Otherworld, you could become a patron at patreon.com slash Otherworld. Our social media is at Otherworld Pod. Thank you to the team at Odyssey, Leah Reese Dennis, Mara Curran, Josephina Francis, Eric Donnelly, Kate Rose, Colin Gaynor, and Hillary Schuff. Follow and listen to Otherworld now for free on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. And finally, if you or somebody you know has experienced something paranormal, supernatural, or unexplained,

you could send us your stories at stories at otherworldpod.com.