Otherworld - Episode 21: The Black Widow Part 2

Episode Date: February 11, 2023

In part two of this series, our storyteller leaves her psychic reading and things start to escalate very quickly as she attempts to save her father from his newest wife. Then, Jack catches up months later for an update and then sets off to try to find this mysterious clairvoyant woman.  To see photos related to this episode, click here Subscribe to Otherworld on Patreon for exclusive content and bonus interviews Check out our Merch Follow us on: Instagram, TikTok, Twitter  If you have experienced something paranormal or unexplained, email us your full story at [e-mail] To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to Otherworld. I'm your host, Jack Wagner. This is the Black Widow Part 2. If you've not heard part one, you'll definitely need to go back and listen to that first. Now, just to recap, in part one, I come across this story in a bit of an unusual way. I meet somebody in real life. I overhear them talking about a clairvoyant and end up interviewing her about her very unusual story. growing up her dad had this sudden success and an influx of money he ends up having this kind of midlife crisis and starts disappearing to Vegas all the time hang out with strange people things are becoming odd to say the least and then he starts dating this series of gold diggers for lack of a better word

these young women that are kind of transparently using him for his money and taking advantage of him. As a result, he gets divorced and then gets married again multiple times and divorced multiple times. All that is happening in front of his children who are still young and witnessing all of this play out. Then he ends up with this woman, Amy, who's far worse than anyone from before. The list of things that she does is honestly hard to recap. She starts racking up astronomical bills on designer clothes. She's isolating the dad from his loved ones and manipulating situations in a way that any criticism of her comes off as judgmental and kind of classist towards her supposed humble beginnings and difficult background.

And I think that part's really important. She's legally not allowed to see her kids. No custody, no visitation rights, which is very noteworthy because it's very unusual for that to happen to a mother. She ends up getting the dad to hire a team of lawyers to get her custody back of these kids, and she ends up getting full custody. The kids show up to live with our storyteller's dad.

And they're all very strange. Two of them are special needs, and on top of that, all of them clearly need therapy in general for the traumatic situations that they supposedly have been living through. Amy was saying that the father of these kids is a psychopath, he's done all these horrible things, that's why he manipulated the courts into getting her out of custody. So, I mean, clearly these kids need help no matter what the truth is, and they're not getting any help. All while this is going on, the dad's health.

problems start to get worse. And he did have health issues before. So it does make a little bit of sense. It's not completely out of the blue. Plus, COVID's going on during this. But eventually it reaches the point where he genuinely seems like he's near the end of his natural life. His dementia is getting really bad. He's sleeping all the time. And his kids start to accept that he might die. And then during all of this, our storyteller randomly goes to this clairvoyant that is recommended from a friend. And she goes in thinking it'll be fun.

That's not what happened. She goes to this clairvoyant. And the clairvoyant tells her all sorts of things about Amy, unprompted. And then she ends up saying that Amy's poisoning the dad not only that, he's going to die very soon. And we're about to get back to where we left off right there. But I just want to say that upon recording this story,

skeptics, clairvoyance, mediums, all of that, generally speaking, I've always been extremely skeptical of any of these things. Like, I'm open to stuff that most people would consider to be completely nutty. but for some reason, this is where I've always drawn the line. And I'm not going to get into whether or not my opinion has changed in the course of making this story, but I do think that this one seemed different to me right off the bat. This clairvoyant, no matter what you believe, played a pivotal role in this very complicated saga. And I think that's what makes this story really interesting.

Sometimes in life, the most pivotal moments that we ever experience occasionally involve something that most people would call paranormal. But because of the way these stories are normally treated by the people making content about it, it ends up being considered ridiculous. And I think most normal people end up omitting this type of stuff from these stories when they retell them and usually just keep it to themselves. But in reality, there's a lot of stories out there that mostly take place in the real world, but have certain elements of them that are paranormal. And I think this story is a perfect example of that. No matter what you believe or what I believe about psychics, clairvoyance, mediums. This mysterious woman

set things into motion and undeniably had an effect on things. So, with that being said, we're going to get back into it. This is episode 21, the Black Widow Part 2, and you're listening to Otherworld.

Yes, it is. We're so warm? Yeah, let us know when you're ready. Okay, okay. I'm a good. As I'm good. Samo in the Pacific Island. This is a story about...

I walk out of the clairvoyant, and things started to move extremely fast. I mean, when someone tells you your dad's going to die, everything kind of... It's like you're underwater. It was an out-of-body experience. Yeah, I remember leaving and feeling completely depleted, and I went home and slept a while, and I obviously called my mom, my brother, everybody I knew, anybody who had ears and would listen to me. So my brother is, he's very business savvy. He's way more go with the flow than I am.

And he also has a way better relationship with my dad. So for him to kind of believe this was going to be such a stretch. Not even believe it, but for him to kind of get on board with what was going on, I had to really kind of like get upset with him and be like, this is happening. And he'd be like, I know, I know, she's crazy. Like, you know, this and that. had to really be like, he won't answer my calls. She screens all of my calls. You're the last person he will answer. Literally. He won't answer me. You need to call. He was like, okay, you know,

kind of like, oh God, like, here we go. And he calls my dad answers and his voice is so unrecognizable. It's so worse. Like, could barely speak. Like, there was I think in the recording I had sent you, there was like silence for minutes at a time where my brother would have to be like, hello, dad, are you there? And then my dad would get frustrated. Almost like my dad was in such a weird state where he thought he was talking, but he wasn't actually speaking, almost like a coma state. He got really aggravated with my brother on the fun multiple times because my brother would be like, dad, are you there? Are you there? he'd be like, you know, what do you want?

My brother was like, dad, are you okay? And he was like, I'm not okay. She's trying to kill me. And that was like one of the only full sentences he was able to say on the phone. I weirdly felt a sense of ease in hearing him say that because I was like, okay, I have what I need. And I feel calm. And I can kind of give this hard evidence to my uncle. So my uncle decides to drive five minutes away and go there.

He's like, I'm going to go there and shake some things up. So there's actually a video footage of him entering the house. He jiggles the door handle. It's open. And he just walks in. And she's like, what are you doing here? And he was like, oh, I'm coming to get my brother. And I called the ambulance.

The police are on their way. And she's like, you need to get off my brother. property. You're not allowed in here. He doesn't want you here. And he was like, no, I'm going to go get my brother. Like walks upstairs, gets my dad. My dad could barely walk down the stairs. I think my dad was sleeping or something. That's all my dad did. Like by that point, my dad was spending days on end just sleeping. And my uncle's walking my dad literally down the stairs. The police and ambulance arrive. They escort him out, she's flipping out, and my uncle's like, go get his wallet. She's like, no, this is my property. This is my property. This is my property. That's all she ever would say. The police, we're like,

go get his wallet. She brings out his wallet. He checks to make sure everything's in there. He's like, I'm taking my brother to the hospital. She, you see her just kind of become distressed. And she strips the entire house, turns it upside down. Scary. And it was already in shambles. They had been living in Florida since March, and this happened in July. And there were still unpacked boxes everywhere, like to the brim in the garage. She packs up the car that my dad bought her eldest son. And I would say by 9 p.m., she had pulled out of the driveway and started driving across the U.S. Meanwhile, my dad's on the way to the hospital.

My uncle's like, I have your address. dad, everything's good, he's going to be okay. He's at the hospital. He's kind of, you know, in a day's state, like what's going on. He gets fluids. They run like a ton of tests on him and, you know, he's a diabetic. He has some heart issues. So they had to run like all of these crazy tests on him and his health was not well. But they did see that he had extremely high levels of like benzos and sleeping pills, ambient, just like really intense sleeping medications in his system. He wakes up the next day.

He's like a different person. My uncle was in the hospital the whole time being like, you got poison buddy, you know, like right when he woke up. It was crazy. It was like a different person. He couldn't even believe it happened to him. They were like, have you been taking this stuff? And he was like, no.

But he's like, I do own a lot of this medication because I have horrible sleep apnea and I sleep with a mask on. And so the doctors always prescribe me these intense medications, but I never take them because they made me feel groggy. So what was happening was he was getting these medications and she was stealing them for herself also and for him to dose him in his food. And, you know, the kids later on told their dad that they saw their mom do this. and they saw her spit in his food and tamper with everything. So that's how she was getting these drugs, but she was amplifying it, you know? And she had just gone further than she ever had because there was an issue with the will. She wanted to know why she wasn't in his will as his wife.

She's mad. She says, like, I'm going to kill myself and I'm going to kill you. me if I'm not in your will and was making all these crazy like threatening things to try to get in the will and she was like I can't believe your kids are in this they don't love you they don't take care of you they don't help you I've been the one that's been taking care of you he vividly remembers her and I don't know if she physically brought the will to his bedside but she was like basically threatening like if you don't put me in your will I'm going to kill you my dad told us that he was thinking those things and he did want to call the police. He was too weak.

He couldn't even like, he couldn't even call 911. I think that it started as I'm going to give him an extra dose of his medication so I can go shopping for longer. And when he wakes up, he'll think I was just at Walmart. Legally in a hospital, they have to report that to the police. They basically came in and were like, oh, this is the situation. This is what's happening. Like, we have to report this to the police. So they report it. Meanwhile, Amy is traveling across the U.S. and my dad has her location because she's a moron that didn't turn it off. And what's so funny, too, is my dad's the kind of guy, even in that state where he's very strategic. He's like, oh, no, we're going to find out how much money she takes out because she stole one of his credit

cards and see what she does along the way. So after all of this, you know, my mom, my brother, everybody goes to Florida to help my dad clean up the house because she had left it in complete shambles. I showed you the photos. She had left behind so many designer things. And that was another crazy thing. Obviously, my dad was sleeping all day. So what would she do? She would go to the mall and she would just shop. And the Neiman Marcus people knew her by name. Like, it was a crazy. She was buying so much stuff. I have no. never seen anything like this in my entire life. You could literally start the real real and have like a successful business of consignment from her closet that she left behind. We don't even know

what she took. We're assuming the most expensive craziest items like all of the jewelry and they're cleaning and they're just finding all of these chenelle, all of this stuff and they pick up this really beautiful Montclair jacket and outfalls my dad's wallet from his hut or from the wedding. She stole it. She stole it. I knew she stole it. I knew it. So as we're unraveling things, a lot of things from the past become clear. One being the Laguna trip. He ghosted me for three days and it turned out that they had gotten into a physical altercation where Amy went to jail. She tried to punch him in the face and a cop saw. She did it in front of a cop. She did it in front of a cop. I think they were pulled over on the road or something, but she struck my dad and she got arrested.

And that's why he ghosted me for three days. Also, the kids were very different. And I just thought it was because they had gone through a lot of traumatic incidents with their dad. That was kind of the narrative Amy was spewing. And what I realized was that they were also being given medications. I've never met kids who slept until 5 p.m. And would miss school and were always sick. She would give medications to the kids to kind of get them out of the way.

And every time I went there, there was like soup being brought in their rooms. and I'd be like, what's going on? Like, oh, so and so sick. So my dad talks to the ex-husband, and he also talks to her father. So the husband says that she's been a nightmare from day one, extremely abusive, physically, mentally, emotionally, all of it.

And master manipulator, she has been caught shoplifting multiple times. She's been in, like, physical altercation. She loves reporting people. There's someone always, like, sexually assaulting her. That father said the same thing. And they had a very strange relationship that I knew of. Allegedly, her mom is also the same way, too.

So I thought my dad was dying from natural causes. And, I mean, two weeks in the hospital did him wonders. He doesn't take much medication anymore. He, his whole house is revamped. It looks beautiful. He got himself a boat and he's thriving, living life to the fullest. I mean, a lot of that stuff did have some effects on his brain. And I think there is still some early onset dementia happening.

But he's pretty with it and he can walk. I mean, there was a point where we were looking at wheelchairs because he was unable to, get off the couch and up to his bedroom. Now he's just making up for it and he's living his best life in Florida. I just was with him and we had a great time. He's dating again. We're a little scared about that, but he says he never wants to get married again

and never really wants anything serious. And we've completely been able to rebuild our relationship. He's a completely different dad to me. He shows up for me in such amazing ways. He posted a really sweet thing on Instagram, and he was like, this is my daughter who saved my life. I still see the clairvoyant. Every six months, she's helped me through other very challenging things

between work, relationships, and all things like that. And I started to think of my dad in an entirely new way. There were certain parts of my dad that I felt like I never really got to know. And we talked about a lot of those. parts. His childhood and things that my dad has never told me, but stuff that when I told my mom about this, my mom knew, and she had never told me either. The most fascinating part about my initial experience with her was that all of this stuff happened within days. I just feel really lucky to have been introduced to her because she was so instrumental in all of this happening and

moving forward. Because if it would have went on a couple more days, I really don't believe he would be here. Maybe even a day, quite honestly. Always listen to your intuition. People will try and manipulate that, but tying it back to the very beginning of when I met Amy, There was something extremely off. And now I kind of wish I would have called the police initially when I met her. When I initially saw my dad fall asleep in his spaghetti on that first night, I had dinner with her.

You know, it's listen to your intuition because we all have that. All right, we're not done yet. But I still want to thank our guest for sharing that story with me all the way back in July. One thing that didn't make into the episode that I thought, was really interesting is that she was looking through her old photos on her phone while I was interviewing her, and she realized that I was interviewing her exactly one year to the day from when she saw the clairvoyant, the exact same day, total coincidence. And that was just one of a few coincidences that came up while making this show. Another one that's not so fun is that we looked

up where Amy is now, and I recognized the name of the street. And I recognized it because somebody I know very well lives on that same street, just a few blocks away. Not a very good coincidence, to say the least. So after I heard that story, I immediately wanted to know more about this clairvoyant woman, as I'm sure many of you do as well. Rest assured, I set out looking for her, and that's why these episodes have taken so long to make. But before we get to that, I thought it would be good to go and get an update from our storyteller on the latest news in the Black Widow story because it has been many months since I did that interview. Okay, we have to take a quick break, but we will be right back. Hey, how's it going? It's going well. How about you? I'm good. First of all, what have you

thought of the episode so far? The episode made me laugh. What part of it? I didn't realize, I guess when I was recording the episode, I didn't realize how hilarious the caricature of Amy is.

What, like jump scare aesthetic? Yeah, just jump scare aesthetic. Just her whole vibe I mean, I find her horrifying personally. No, she's horrifying. That's what's so crazy. But I guess I'm in a place of my life where I can just move on from this and laugh and be like, whoa, I can't believe that happened. It feels so surreal.

But I think that the episode has been really just a good reminder about. all of this and that it is a part of my past and Amy. Amy lives on. I don't know. Boy, does she ever. Okay. So I wanted to kind of recap you on some stuff that's happened since I recorded this. But I think first, we recorded that interview in July, as I'm speaking to you right now, it's February. Is there any kind of update that you could give me on the Amy situation? Last time I heard was pretty much just what had happened that week when you kind of rescued your dad and you said that he's doing well. Is there any kind of general update you could give? Okay, so things that have come to light, like other random

pieces of information that we have found out in this process is that Her ex-boyfriend also allegedly committed suicide. What? Yes. Ex-boyfriend or ex-husband? I'm pretty sure it was an ex-boyfriend. Someone she was kind of doing the same thing to randomly drop dead. And they're saying it was a suicide.

So there's that. Part of her family is also in on the investigation because she did a lot of really gnarly stuff to her family. And they are also trying to find her. So they've been talking a lot with my dad and my dad's. attorneys and whatnot. Because I guess there's some stealing scandals that happened, shoplifting.

I think she was shoplifting from somewhere and that's what we know. Yeah, there's a lot. I mean, I know that there's a lot and you just can't talk about it. I mean, that's kind of the situation.

Yeah, I can't talk about a lot. I will say we uncovered a closet, let's call it, where she was keeping all of this stuff. And it was a sickening amount of clothes with tags on. And I'm talking, Chanel, Balmain, all of the most expensive things you could ever find just thrown in this closet. Huge. You could actually open a resale store with how much was in there. And when I saw it, I was so freaked out. I actually had to sit down as like my family was kind of going through everything because I mean, I have never seen anything like it. Clothes with tags on it.

And so the interesting part was we're coming to find that she made friends with all of these salespeople. And all of these salespeople just kind of started sending her these things. And she would hide, she would hide them. And if my dad ever got close to her closet, she would freak out. It's funny. You're describing this to me. I know what you're talking about. It sounds like you're saying what you've already mentioned in the story, but it's actually an additional one of these.

It's a additional closet. that there's already, you've already uncovered other ones that are completely filled to the brim with designer stuff. And this is a new one. This is a new one that I had never seen before and it scared the living shit out of me. Yeah. I mean, I remember you texted me about this and I said, you actually should, you joked about how you could start a designer store. I'm like, you should sell this stuff. Like, you should do it.

And maybe. It's actually weird because when I was leaving, the facility of the closet. I like that. You were texting me and I was like, this is too aligned. And I was so disgusted that I couldn't take any pictures. I felt really, really sorry for my dad because my dad must have been so out of it and so checked out.

But we all kept blasting because my dad kept saying, where the fuck would be going with all of this stuff? All she did was stay home. Like, where was she going in a Balmain dress? Oh, yeah. Like, why she doesn't need it. No, like gowns. They were gowns.

That costed maybe like three grand. Insane. Stuff that I've just, I've never even really seen in real life was in that closet. And, of course, there's an investigation going on. She's still on the loose. I think some people might find that hard to believe, but, I mean, if you're familiar with the complicated legal system of our country, I mean, she's in a different state now,

and these crimes she's committed in the places where they took place happened a lot. So it's kind of taking a while. Yeah, I mean... And it's increasingly complicated because it involves a divorce, and a lot of these things are just... his word against hers. So hopefully it shakes out for the best, but I know it's very difficult. Yeah. I mean, when you're dealing with someone who's also a pathological liar, it's going to get weird. And it is a her word against his word type of thing. And in the city

that this is occurring in, it's another day at the office kind of situation. So it's taken all with a grain of salt because it happens so often in this particular town. And the interesting part about this is that some days and some months and whatnot, it's completely dead. Like, she'll just go off the grid. She won't pay her attorneys and she'll just completely go off the grid. And then all of a sudden she'll reemerge with new attorneys and, you know, things like that.

And I think I told you that some of her mail is still accidentally sent to our house. And that hospital bill, remember? Oh, my God. Tell me again. There was a massive hospital bill. My dad was like, I wonder what happened to Amy. Amy. Like, this is astronomical. How much was it? How much are you talking?

I think, didn't I send you the... Wasn't it? I think it was like $300,000. Yeah, it was something, it was something crazy. Oh, my God. I just kept saying, geez, I wonder what happened to Amy. It's good that you could laugh about this horrifying thing that happened to you and your family. I can laugh about it now. I also have such an amazing support team around me and such good friends who have helped me get through

this and have helped me be able to find the humor in what I experienced. So I do owe a lot of this to my friends and, you know, all my people that help me in this life. I mean, even just doing this with you has been very healing in a sense because I've had a really hard time talking about it. And even while it was happening, I was still working full force. I was, I dove into work and just didn't tell anybody about it and let it just kind of happen. And I think that in the last two years that this has happened or this has been going on, I think that I have been able to find parts of it that I can laugh at. And I think that I've rebuilt my relationship with my dad, which is probably the most important part of this story.

We're so close now. And it was a relationship I thought couldn't really be repaired. So it just took that. And, you know, it was a bad situation, but we're all in a lot better of a place now. When I, this is kind of a spoiler for the listeners, but when I ended up asking the clairvoyant about you, she said she doesn't remember you or the story at all. I know. Isn't that crazy?

It's crazy. Because I've seen her in the last, you know, year or so. and we've talked about it. And she told me she was like, I do not remember this. Because she... Her process, I think, doesn't really allow her to. Yeah, I think she goes into like a trance.

Right. But she helped me so much. And I'm so grateful for her. Yeah. So every time I see her, I'm very just so excited to be in her presence because she's just such a wonderful woman. So after I heard the story, I obviously wanted to learn more about this clairvoyant and try to interview her if I could. I said before that I've always been extremely weary of psychics, clairvoyance, mediums,

basically any human that claims to be able to master these mysterious things that I talk about on this show. my honest opinion at the time is that basically most of these people are just doing clever tricks making a series of educated guesses and playing on people's emotions to make money but what stood out as unusual right away about this clairvoyant is that she has people record the sessions and i've never heard of that before and to me that's like the first thing you wouldn't want to do if you were doing cold readings and making educated guesses or doing any kind of tricks, you would not want a recording of it that the person getting the reading gets to keep. The other thing that stood out is that this woman doesn't ask any questions

and seems to basically just be saying stuff. And the stuff she is saying is all over the place and very specific and at times even incendiary. direct in a way that if she's wrong, it runs a high risk of doing a lot of damage and being very wrong. I mean, most of the time, psychics say very general stuff that applies to most people,

but comes off as sounding unique. They say stuff like, oh, I could see you're trying to find your way, aren't you? You have something on your mind. You don't always like socializing, do you? Things like that. They're basically doing very general stuff that applies to most people at some point and in some way.

But this clairvoyant is saying wild stuff that has a high risk of being wrong. I mean, most psychics are not accusing people's stepmoms of being a call girl. It's extremely unusual. So, from what I was told, this clairvoyant is fairly elusive and does not do interviews. She has no interest in attention at all

and probably would not want to talk to me. she also isn't somebody you could just look up and book an appointment with. She does this at her house and you have to be kind of hooked up by somebody who knows her personally. From what I was told, she was just somebody's mom. And basically at some point, in the not-so-distant past, something happened to her that caused her to have some kind of awakening. And overnight, basically, she had these abilities, and she started knowing things about people, predicting things, receiving information, just knowing stuff that she couldn't know.

And in fact, I was told that she was bombarded with it to the point where she couldn't leave the house for periods of time because she was just receiving too much information and energy when she would leave. But eventually, she figured out how to get this under control and began kind of doing these readings for family and friends. The main thing that I was told is that she really does not want attention. In fact, those two friends from the very beginning of this story did not think me asking her to do a podcast would go over well at all,

especially a podcast that does not even exist yet. Because remember, at this point, other world is just an idea. Nobody even knows that I'm working on it. I barely even had a name in my head for it. So I set out to try to find a way to talk to this mysterious woman. And this part of the story is kind of long, but I'll try to make it short. Basically, I tried a million ways and was not having luck over the course of a couple months. And there were many, many times that I would basically give up and just be like,

I don't need to talk to her. This is a good story without the clairvoyant. I don't need to get a hold of her. But as soon as that would happen, a major lead would basically drop itself right in front of me and kind of get me back on course. In fact, the way I finally ended up being able to make this happen is that I lost a sweatshirt when I was at my gym. I decided to go back to the gym, stop over there and look for it.

When I got there, some guy saw me looking for a sweatshirt and offered to help me find it. and that guy ended up being the clairvoyant's daughter's best friend. And he also didn't think that the clairvoyant would want to talk to me. But he told me that I should just go, get a reading, and give it my best shot. Ask her and see what happens. It's worth a try. So he kind of explained to me how I could do that. I checked her booking system, and she was booked up for the next four months.

so I was a little discouraged. But as I was looking at the booking page, a cancellation must have happened or something like that because a time slot randomly popped up for that day. And without thinking, I just basically booked it and had to gather my stuff and drive over that day to get a reading from this mysterious lady.

I was pretty nervous. I didn't even care about the reading, but I was worried about, I guess, being deceptive. I knew it was going to be a very abrupt pivot after the reading for me to be like, hey, by the way, I'm actually the host of a podcast that doesn't exist yet, and I'm doing a story about you, and I've basically been stalking you for months. Would you like to talk about it? Especially for a person who I know does not want to do any press or things like that.

I also booked it anonymously, and nobody knew I was going over there. So it was just going to be a very weird surprise to do this tour, and I was worried about how that was going to go down. So I pull up. It's an extremely normal house. I ring the doorbell, and a long-haired man opens the door. He's very nice, extremely chill, barefoot, California accent. He offers me a water and asks if I know how to meditate.

Then he walks me into this back room. and he tells me how everything's going to go down. By the way, this room is almost entirely pink and white. There's statues of little angels and crystals everywhere, and I don't know. The best way I could describe it is, it's how I'd imagine a teenage fairy's bedroom would look. It's like the best way I could describe it.

It's very specific looking. So I'm sitting in there by myself, and I have to meditate for 10 minutes. And then at a certain point, she just walks in and sits down. Doesn't really introduce herself or anything. She kind of says this little prayer or mantra or something like that. And she holds my hands for a little bit and then tells me to focus my energy towards her forehead.

And she's not looking at me the entire time. She's kind of like looking up off into the corner of the ceiling, staring into nothing. And she just starts saying stuff. She pretty quickly describes what I do for a living in detail. She describes all of my family members in vivid detail. And this whole time, I'm making a point of not giving yes or no answers. I'm just kind of saying things like, okay, hmm, very neutral responses. Then she starts talking about this new show that I'm working on.

And mind you, nobody knows. about this show. This is August of 2022. Otherworld does not exist. It's just an idea at this point. Even a lot of my closest friends don't even know that I'm doing this. And she starts talking about this new show that I'm making. She's saying like, you're working on a new paranormal show. You're going to be interviewing people. She's so excited about it. Like, truly going on and on about this show and how excited she is for it. And it was almost funny. Like, I had to not laugh on purpose. she was very very interested in my non-existent show and was going on and on finally after about an hour she finishes and leaves me in the room by myself i was kind of in a daze from all of it but i knew that

i finally had to go get up and try to talk to her which is why i was there in the first place i was a little relieved because i was thinking okay good she you know as weird as it is, she knows all about the show, so at least I don't have to surprise her with that, and I thought it would be a little easier. So I get up and I walk, and I find her in the kitchen, and I think I said, like, hey, thank you for that. I wanted to ask you something, if you have a second, about the new show we are talking about. And she looks me dead in the face, and she says, what show? And immediately, I could tell I'm talking to a completely different person. Like, I could see it in her eyes.

It's just different. And I try to remind her, and she has no idea what I'm talking about. I'm like, the new show, the paranormal thing, remember we were talking about it in there for like a half an hour? You're all excited. And she was like, no, I'm so sorry, sweetie. I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't remember anything from these sessions. I usually sometimes will remember bits and pieces, but I usually can't remember anything.

And I could tell she's being dead serious. I could see it in her face. She's absolutely perplexed, and her voice sounds different. It's like I'm talking to a different person. And on top of all that, it's extremely awkward. This is one of the most awkward situations I've ever been in. Most people would have probably folded and been like, okay, thank you.

I'll see you later. But for some reason, I decided to power through. So I explained the show to her. I explained this whole idea for my show, what would be other world. And she looks really confused, but kind of curious. And after my long explanation, I start telling her the Black Widow story.

And, you know, I basically just start from the beginning. And I'm telling her about this story. And at this point, I can tell she's starting to get interested and is asking me stuff and her eyes are lighting up. And she asks me, like, oh, my God, are you serious? Who's the clairvoyant? and like I'm laughing but I have to tell her

you're the clairvoyant this story is about you that's why I'm here and it's extremely awkward but we both laugh a lot and she apologizes again she doesn't remember anything she doesn't remember meeting this girl

eventually I tell her who the girl is and she's like okay I do know that person but I do not remember anything about the black widow stuff like I vaguely remember this but I really just don't remember anything from these readings. And I could tell she's being serious. She looks baffled. But she truly does not remember that reading either. But now she's interested and really wants to hear the full story. So

she invites me into the back room where we did the reading so that I could tell her the full thing. And we ended up chatting for a long time that day. And a couple other days after that. And I ended up getting her to agree to do an interview eventually. She has a very unusual story. I don't even think she fully knows what exactly happened to her. And ever since then, I've been getting to know her, her family, and the people that she's done readings for and trying to figure out exactly what's going on with her.

I've met a lot of people who know her, who get regular readings from her, and it's a really eclectic group. It ranges from family friends to extremely famous pop stars. And this ended up being a very, very big and long endeavor that I've been working on for five months. So this is what I meant when I said

that other world might not even exist if I didn't end up finding this story. I feel like the story of the Black Widow, the clairvoyant, and the beginnings of this podcast are completely intertwined, no matter how you look at it. In fact, I mean, a clairvoyant predicted the existence of this thing and even told me I need to make more episodes. So I set out to make this podcast about other people's stories, but I kind of ended up being a character in this one. And that brings us to the end of this episode, but definitely not to the end of this entire story.

This has been episode 21, the Black Widow Part 2, and you've been listening to Otherworld. You have a lot of stuff going on. It's so crazy, huh? Did you create, just say yes or no, you're doing great. Thank you for being quiet. It really helps me. Because I'm not attached to right or wrong.

I just like to be shown what the energy is trying to show me and interpret it as best I can for you. There could be a script. I'm just going to call them. There could be a script coming up, like a show for something. It's like a series or something about otherworldly stuff. Yeah, like otherworldly, like not of this world. Yeah.

That's what I'm saying. Not that you're filming it or podcasting from Mars. Yeah. Okay. It gives you like a sense of peace in a way to do things that are off. because it's it's almost like you're looking for answers and you can be investigating things and researching things and like looking into like alternative methods and alternative ideas

I feel like it's based on otherworldly ideas and I feel like it's based on you collecting data or information like doing research I feel like you're going to do really well How many shows are you doing? How many do you have planned for? For the how many episodes with the new show? Six.

More. You have to plan for more. You have six scheduled right now. Yeah. It's not enough. Are you kind of thinking you might add a few more? Yes. Yeah, I think so.

I think if you add a few more, you're going to like it better. It gets more colorful. Okay. I think that the show is going to kind of create itself honestly. Who's helping you get your podcast out? Nobody. Yeah, you have to have a little support

because you can't do it on your own. You can, you can do it. That's not exactly true. But it's easier if you have support. It's easier if you have people coming in and help you. Otherworld is executive produced and hosted by myself, Jack Wagner. Our theme song is by Cobra Man. The soundtrack of this episode is by Chrome Sparks and North Americans.

The song you're hearing right now is Wildflowers by Rose City Band. Editing and Engineering by Theo Schaefer. Our artwork is by Coltysak Studios. This is an independent show, so please show us your support by subscribing, leaving a five-star review, and telling your friends. If you want to follow us on social media, we're at OtherworldPod. And finally, if you or somebody you know have experienced something paranormal, supernatural, or unexplained, you could send us your story at Stories at Otherworldpod.com.

Thank you for listening. Thank you.