Otherworld - Episode 23: The Ball of Light Part 2

Episode Date: February 28, 2023

Jack runs into Wendy at a grocery store and she ends up doing a startling reading on a complete stranger. Jack interviews Wendy about her views on the paranormal and afterlife. Later in the episode, Jack discovers a declassified CIA document that sounds very similar to the first hand experiences Wendy has described about her "awakening"  If you would like to read the document in question, you can do so here. Next time, in the final episode of this miniseries we will be diving into the document with a guest and seeing what there is to learn from the theories laid out within.  To see photos related to this episode, click here Subscribe to Otherworld on Patreon for exclusive content and bonus interviews Check out our Merch Follow us on: Instagram, TikTok, Twitter  If you have experienced something paranormal or unexplained, email us your full story at [e-mail] To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Remember at the end of the last episode when I said that just being in the orbit of Wendy is a surreal experience and that strange things started to happen to me when I began hanging out with her? What you're hearing right now is one of those strange things. To the field, which is a field of love, we can receive information and we can help ourselves and we can help others. And so I think of myself like a switchboard operator, like those women from the 40s, and I plug into consciousness, and I receive information,

and it's never not of the light. It always has to be of the light. And if somebody is doing something and it doesn't feel connected to the light, then I would not recommend it. It's really important to be connected to the light. That's just, and whatever that is for you. What you're listening to right now

is a voice memo I recorded on my iPhone at the Food Court of Arawan in Los Angeles, California. Now, if you don't know what that is, It's a very overpriced grocery store. Just think a more expensive, more organic version of Whole Foods. It's not the type of place that something like this would normally happen. Everything is in the field and you can receive information. You're not like I'm calling a comment.

I'm receiving information. I'm like a receiver. It's more like just being very, very receptive. Ultra sensitive. I did not come to this grocery store with Wendy. I had interviewed her in the morning, but this was in the afternoon. I was very hungry and I pulled into the closest place to get a snack, bought some trail mix, and was headed out to my car.

And who do I see walking in? Wendy in Harmony. It was a weird coincidence. Everybody laughed. I did not expect to see Wendy in the wild like that. And Wendy was like, Jack, this is meant to be. You have to come eat with us now. So how do I say no to that?

I went in with them and I kind of wandered around the store while they got their food. And that's when things started to get weird. a woman, a complete stranger, started talking to me in the frozen food section and ended up following me outside. I was not really responding. She was just trying to strike up a conversation over and over again. And she was talking to me about weird stuff. And as she kept talking, the thing she was saying began to get eerily close to what I had just interviewed Wendy about. To the point where I honestly thought somebody was playing some kind of weird prank.

on me to scare me, but other world was not out yet, and nobody even knew I was doing this, so there's no way she could know. Eventually, this reached a breaking point when this woman out of nowhere starts talking about the Kundalini. What happened was I went to a Kundalini class. Excuse me, how are you? My name's funny with my football team. May I have you to pull this animal in my candy bar today? I just bought a candy bar. I'm sorry. Oh, thank you.

This is hilarious. The universe is so funny. I know. Right, yeah. Yeah. Let me just go through all this. So this woman is continuing to talk about strange things, and she starts talking about how she's afraid. And it just becomes very clear that something's going on with her,

and she's clearly talking to us for some kind of reason. And it's weird. There was almost like a magnetism. Like I felt like this woman was pulled to me the entire time, and I could not get rid of her. long story short Wendy ends up doing a reading for this woman very abruptly

in the middle of the Arawan food court and people were giving us looks not only that the reading was very intense and very dark Are you open your eyes Are you going to church now? Yeah you've spent a lot of time there

I skipped the last two weeks Yeah you kind of you've had a lot of fear though And were you living in New York? It was stressful for you. You weren't doing that when you were there. You were attached to some, like, really strange people. Did you know that? I don't know if they were in a group,

or there was groups around you. There's strange groups around you. Like, not of the life. You almost felt like you were involved in that somehow. It's almost like devil worshiping. Yeah. You were involved in. You were involved in that world.

inadvertently it was around you it wasn't of the life it was it feels like there was a reason why you were afraid and there were also like some very weird things going on around you I don't know who was into devil worshiping but it's almost like ritualistic very dark it's so funny because I don't really see this kind of stuff normally Jack was asking me about this and I don't normally see it You understand, sweetie? Yeah. Yeah. You're amazing.

You're a beautiful light and you're on your way to finding your light and it's the truth. Everybody moves back into the light, even if it takes them a minute. They all move back into the light. It's who we are. You can't stay away from it. It's like a magnet that pulls you. It's the truth of who we are, I promise. You're good.

You're going to be great. Welcome here. We're going to be so welcome. Yeah. Welcome to Otherworld. I'm your host, Jack Wagner. This episode is part of an ongoing miniseries that I've been doing. If you have not heard the episodes before, I highly recommend going back to episode 20 and listening from the beginning.

So, as you just heard, I had a very strange afternoon at a grocery store called Arawan with Wendy. that was genuinely one of the weirdest things that's ever happened to me and that clip barely scratches to the surface as to how weird it was. The full story would take more than an episode to explain and that's not what the episode is about today. But if you do want to hear that full story and many other extra things, you can do so on,

the Otherworld Patreon. It's not officially announced yet, but it is up. I'm going to be doing some bonus content on there very soon. So if you want to come become a patron and contribute to the show, it would be very helpful. Your contribution would mean a lot. This is an independent show. You could sign up today at patreon.com slash otherworld. Today's episode is made from a series of interviews I've done with Wendy asking her about the things that I've been most curious to talk about, the paranormal things that we cover on this show. I know most people listen to this show as entertainment, but I'm absorbed in this stuff every day,

talking to people and seeing thousands of emails come in from people who have experienced mind-boggling things. It's not something I could easily just compartmentalize and write off. I genuinely want to know what's going on with all of these people, and my way of finding out is to talking to people about firsthand accounts. So after meeting Wendy, and she began to open up to me, I was obviously very, very curious to ask her opinion about these things. Wendy has one of the most unusual and extreme experiences of anyone I've met so far,

and the stuff she's said to me has always been really out there. But eventually, as you'll hear at the end of this episode, I stumble across something that made it seem not so out there anymore. This is episode 23, and you're listening to you'll listen to you'll see. listening to Otherworld. So, I don't want to talk about it for too long. I don't think you want to either, but what do you, is there anything you wanted to say about the Arawan incident? You know, I wasn't a huge fan of that experience. Does that happen to you normally?

I've never had anything like that happened. It was so bizarre. I mean, I think I had just done that interview with you. Yeah. I thought, did Jack set this person up? this is bizarre. I thought I was thinking the same thing about you. I was like, what is going on? This is really weird. And, I mean, she also just seems so strange. It was peculiar.

The whole thing was very peculiar. Yeah. But God bless her. That's somebody that's sitting in a place of fear. I mean, the way that she was talking. And it's somebody who's had a lot of time. trauma. And so we can't really like say anything negative about it because she was in pain. For me, the weirdest part probably was like, it was almost like a magnetism. Like I felt like she saw

me in this frozen food aisle and I sensed her and then she said something to me and it was like she was kind of following you or something. And then when we sat down, it's like she came over. So I think it was some, she had an interest. And then she started talking. And that's was so bizarre. Yeah, it was weird. Wendy, I just wanted to get trail mixed that day. I didn't expect this to happen. You know, I think it's honestly us. I think certain people, when they're together, crazy things can happen. Okay. I know that you block these things out and have a way of not encountering anything dark, but what do you think of ghosts or spirits or things like that? because obviously a lot of people come on this show with firsthand experiences.

That's probably the most common thing that people write me about that they find confusing and scary. Yeah, I mean, the whole word ghost is I have kind of an issue with. I like that. That's cool. You like that I have an issue with the word ghost? Yeah, I mean, I'm fascinated. I channel people who pass constantly. I would never call them ghosts.

I mean, somebody's mom comes in. she is alive. She's sometimes more alive than the person who's sitting in front of me grieving. The ghost thing for me just doesn't feel like there can be like shadows of energy or energy that's left. Like maybe that's not the full consciousness.

Maybe it's like a recording of an incident that was a traumatized incident that's playing over and over because it's almost like the energy was, if there was a painful incident sometimes, it's almost like a flash where the energy is stuck, but it's not the whole consciousness of the person. But I don't have the experience.

I've only had one experience that I can say with, that I can recall, maybe I'll recall more later, of a ghost situation when I was taken to a haunted house in Baton Rouge. Probably not the best idea to take me to a haunted. Anyway, it was a haunted house, and I did have an experience there. I walked in and I knew that there was an older woman there and she told me that my dress was too, my top was too low.

And that sounds weird, but that was what happened. And then we went into this room and normally, like how I think of the kundalini energy, when I was doing a lot of deep trans-channeling, it would feel like hot energy going up my spine. It would be like very warm. And I don't ever have like ice cold. going in my never had that but I was in this room and it was my spine got ice cold now when I see my spine I don't mean like my full body my spine felt like ice I know that they exist I don't know what

they are I don't have the answer I did go into I'm sorry Jack this is going to be so long this is good this is good you're going to have to edit and edit I'm so sorry okay I did have this experience see now I'm like remembering my friend bought a historic home down by Santa Monica, old home. She was tearing it apart. She was destroying this house. I mean, she was modern. She wanted to make it modern. And I went there, and this was very, very new after my awakening. And I went there. And I went there and I knew there was this older woman there and her energy was stuck. And I knew that she had had 10 children. And I was walking around and she was, I mean, I'm saying she was leading me, but I don't see

her. I'm just following the energy, if that makes sense. I don't see things because I would probably be afraid. But I just followed the energy and I was in the hall and I was saying she keeps pacing back and forth right here, right here. And I go, what is this? And I hit the wall. Melinda said, it's the electric box. And I said, she's messing with the electricity. And she's like, oh my God, we've been having problems with the electricity all month. And it's that woman's energy had been pacing back and forth. And then all of a sudden, and I saw that she was upset about what Melinda was doing to this house. Like this was her home. And she did, I think on some level, she didn't know that she had passed. And so I went up the stairs and I went into this room and I said, who's room,

what is this room? The energy was so different. It was so beautiful and calm. This was her daughter's room who was young. And this, this is where this woman spent all her time. Well, I told her when we were in that room, I said, I think there was a woman in this house. an older woman and she had 10 kids. Well, Melinda, who didn't believe in any of this, had asked that previous owners did someone die here, and apparently it was a woman who had birthed like 10 or 11 children in that house and that she had died there,

and I think in that room. And so she was definitely stuck there. I don't know that I did anything. I just kind of, I said to my friend, I really love this woman's energy. It's beautiful and I don't want to ask her to leave because she has beautiful energy. But I kind of just said to her,

this isn't your home anymore. And I talked to Melinda and told her, like, she's upset with what you're doing. Like, you need to try to talk to her and make her feel at peace with what you're doing because it feels like you're destroying her house. The other thing that I didn't really get a full chance to talk to you about was just, like, other paranormal stuff.

I think it's really interesting that, I mean, I know you don't see dark and you kind of like to stay away from that. But, you know, obviously my email inbox is full of people who experience all sorts of strange, unexplainable things. I think it's, I don't think that I'm not dismissing anyone's experience. Like, I'm not like, Pollyanna like, oh, it doesn't exist. We literally attract vibrational. what we're sending out. I mean, think about like a tuning fork.

You know, like when you have a tuning fork and you hit it and there's another one next to it that's still, it starts ringing exactly the same. It's why it's so important the energy we're around. Your vibration is going to match

or you're going to start pulling an energy to you that's in that frequency. I think that when we're not connected and we're disconnected, we're going to attract things that are from kind of like, in quote, you know, the lower realms, right? So I think that our job is to stay vibrationally in a place of inner peace. Your connection to God, to source to the light is important.

Because if you're connected to the light, you are not going to have those experiences coming in. What I would say is that there is an absence of light in somebody's life and they are drawing to them these dark experiences. And as soon as they heal things in their own life and release the fear and move into a higher frequency of love because it's all just a vibration, if I'm down here thinking about how messed up everything is and I'm depressed and I'm not taking care of myself and I'm mad at people and I haven't forgiven people, I'm going to be in a lower frequency with my thoughts and I'm going to attract negative situations.

I mean, on some level, I think the Erwan girl is the perfect example that you and I had just been talking in this room and you actually asked me about dark spirits. And I said, I never attract that. And then we went to Erwan separately and this woman started talking about that. Well, don't you find that a little bit interesting? We created that on some level. I never thought about it like that.

That's wild. Early on, since we're going down memory lane, early on I did have kind of a strange experience that somebody came over, let's just say Mary, I'm changing the names, but she had been afraid of having a reading and afraid of what I was doing, nervous, not sure, because this was very early on. And this is someone who's, you know, close to me. and loves me very much.

But she came over and somehow I just said, oh, let me touch your hands for a moment. I touched her hands and I was just talking about things with her boyfriend and just kind of, you know, little things. And then all of a sudden I just kind of became almost stressed. And I started saying there's dark energy in your house, there's dark energy in your house. And that's not like a normal thing for me to do in a session. In fact, I haven't done it since forever. But I was saying there's dark energy in

your house and I was, it sounds so scary, but I say it like that. I was just overtaken with this. I didn't, sometimes it's like when you're in that state of consciousness, the energy is just the energy is showing you things and you're literally just the vessel. Like I am a, I am a vessel. So what's moving through me at that point was I was being alerted and alarmed. And I kept saying, there's dark energy. And I said, somebody came into your house and they brought this dark energy. Who came to your house? Who came to your house?

And she said her sister's friend just came over. And this person, who I'm calling Mary, kind of grabbed my hands and held my hands because I was kind of like moving my hands fast. Like we have to go like this as I was talking. and I was almost kind of shaking, and I don't do that when I read. By the way, you know, we talked about me shaking in deep trance. That's different. That's like overwhelmed by so much love moving through you.

But this was a different thing. This was, I was emphasizing. And so she kind of grabbed my hands and said, Wendy, Wendy, Lori, my sister, Lori said this morning that she had a dream last night that we were all saging the house and saying, only love and light exists, only love and light exist. So her sister, her sibling, had a precognitive dream the night before this occurred, which adds a weirdness, an element of weirdness to the whole story.

So her sibling, before this person came to my house, Mary, her sibling, Lori, had said, oh my God, I had a weird dream last night. We were all staging the house. There was this dark energy in the house. Are these people that normally are thinking about energies, light, or dark? They don't think about that at all. And so what happened was, I was like, we have to go. And it was almost like we were going to put out a fire.

It was really that intense. We raced over there to Mary's house, and this person is sitting there and kind of in a daze goes, I hope it's not me. And it was so creepy. Wait, wait. So did you burst in the door and say that? We kind of like run in the house and go, there's dark energy in the house. Like we're putting out of fire.

Like I said, it sounds so funny. And the person was sitting there kind of straight backed in a chair. And this other person, Mary, is saying, Wendy just channeled and there's dark energy in the house. And this person literally went like, almost like a zombie voice. like, I hope it's not me. And the whole room cleared. And I'm not kidding.

It went like, everybody went away from that person like they were scared. It was Lori's friend, childhood friend, who had come over for a visit. I knew that this energy, part of the feeling of being upset about it was that I knew that this dark energy could affect other people in the home. and I was concerned about that because there's other people who live there. I kind of went into a trans state. I've never done anything like this, but I will tell you I was not afraid.

I was not afraid at all. Everyone was saging because we brought this big giant bowl full of sage. And so they were all saging and they were all doing only love and light exists just like Lori's precognitive dream. I was very focused that I needed to help this person and and that help her so that it would also help not affect other people in this in the home. And I was in this trance state and I knew what to do. And I knew that it came, that this energy came through her. The back here, there's a little area back here and I think it's called the occipital.

And I knew it came in through there. and it attached to her. And I think that she had been going through a lot because she had been fighting with her mom and kind of like a bad fight and was in a very, I think that would put somebody obviously in a very low vibrational state and depressed. She was very depressed at the time. And she was staying with her boyfriend. I was telling this energy to get out. and I was pulling off her arms and I was saying,

you need to leave her alone and you need to go into the light. You need to remember who you are and you need to return to the light. I want to just emphasize, I have never experienced anything like this. I was not looking for this experience. This was like getting a 911 call from source. Like you need to help. I've read for thousands of people over the past so many years now.

I've never seen something like this before, or the person's energy in a state where it almost was like in a zomified state like almost like flat of any emotion like almost like not aware or not alert and not able to access herself in a way and it had somehow decided to

infiltrate her I was not connecting to it I was speaking to it I was just speaking to that energy that it needed to leave. There was a few other things that I don't feel comfortable sharing because it's so private for her. But I was basically telling it needed to go into the light. And it left.

And when she came back, she said that she had been Googling last night, the night before, she had been Googling, what does it mean if it feels like someone else is in your body? What do you think caused it? I think that it was because she was in a deep depression. And apparently there was somebody who had passed that week or something, an older man who was living there. And I don't know if when he passed, he just attached. I don't know exactly.

But there was clearly something bizarre going on. Am I understanding this right, that this girl, was like not getting along with her family and she went to live with the boyfriend because she was very depressed. And then a man in the house, some man died. And then she came over to this other house

kind of looking for help because she's not doing very well. And then at some point, you burst through the doors saying that there's darkness in the house or whatever. I thought it was a very wild story. It was wild to experience it. I've obviously spent a lot of time talking to you.

I don't even know what number interview I'm on with you right now, but I think one thing that made me so fascinated to talk to you is that in doing this show, I mean, I talk to people about really dark things. And I hear so much of it. And it's hard not to eat, no matter how much you distance yourself from it, It's hard not to get scared sometimes, you know. And I think it's refreshing talking to you, somebody who's so focused on like the exact opposite of that.

I guess I don't know what my question is. I mean, honestly, I feel like I'm here because I work for the lie. And I say that's, people say that word all the time. But I mean, I really feel not like I'm important. I think I'm one of many. But I feel like the reason that I can talk. about it is because that's who I'm employed by. I'm not working for the dark. And I think it does exist. I think it's just an absence of light. I think the way that we view it, we make it terrifying and

scary with our own thoughts. Even like in ourselves, like I teach people and talk about, you know, when people have negative thoughts or they loop thoughts, that to send love and light to that instead of running away from it because the fear is the thing that keeps us in a lower frequency. For me, hearing all these stories and helping people kind of document these things that happen to them, it's like a big puzzle with a lot of missing pieces. And every time I hear something new, it's kind of like I get a little new piece of that. And it's interesting talking to you because I think it's the same thing. Like, you don't even, you're not even confident about what exactly is going on with you

and you're still trying to figure that out. The other interesting thing is that a lot of these things you say to me, whether you know it or not, sound very familiar to other things people have told me or things that I've read in my own emails by people who are very confused and also don't know what's going on. So, yeah, it's really interesting.

I feel like I've, I enjoy kind of trying to solve the Wendy puzzle and also hopefully try to solve the bigger puzzle. But I was just reminded, you mentioned to me one time that there was something that occurred that you think maybe also had something to do with your awakening. Can you tell me about that? The year before, I was with my friend,

she has twins, and one of them fell on the table. jacuzzi and was spinning around face down. And I went running across to save him. And I tripped on this metal piece or something. And I went in the water. Literally, it was like my Oprah moment, I guess, in life. I lifted him up above the water, but I'm, I hit my tailbone. And as I was researching how to fix it, because I was in so much pain, I couldn't even stand up without tears going down my face. It was so, so painful. When I was researching how to fix it, there was articles, I found an article that said, some people injured their tailbone on purpose to release the kundalini energy, but I wouldn't recommend it. And it's like at that point, I didn't even really

have too much of a reference about what that was. I just kind of like, I remember it and then I move past it because that wasn't going to help my cause. But I have wondered, because that was the second time I've injured my tailbone. I injured it when I was in high school. I was a cheerleader and somebody dropped me from, I was doing the splits up in the air. They were holding my legs and one girl, my leg swung down. So that's the first time I injured my tailbone. So there is some, I don't know if you, maybe you'll find some information about it. I don't know. I've never looked into it. But that was a year before my awakening. But my awakening was, so what I'm saying is maybe the kundalini energy could flow

freer because of that. But I don't even know. I don't know the science behind it. I don't know, though. I can't tell you. I just know that that was something that I had read and maybe that had some impact in some way. You know, honestly, from a higher self-level,

all of this is so planned. We plan everything. We kind of are designers of our life. And we get to choose. It's not like we don't have free will. We can choose. on some level we put different things. We orchestrate it.

We put things in our path to help us grow because this is an experience of growing. Okay, we have to take a quick break, but we will be right back. So this might open up a big can of worms, but as I was listening back to the interviews, some things early on when you had talked to me, you kind of danced around a little bit,

and it was probably because you didn't know me that well, but I've learned bits and pieces since then. When you started the deep trance and like this higher self knowledge and all that, like, what are the things, what are the first like lessons and new things you learned that you didn't know before? Well, do you really want to go down that road? Yes. I guess that what I would say is that the information I channeled in the, beginning was that we're very powerful beings and that we're very out of touch with how powerful we are

and that we're um beginning to wake up and i called this time that was coming the revealing and i kept saying everything will be revealed the light is coming and everything will be shown and i also um saw that we are very very telepathic and intuitive and that's the direction that we're going to be going. I think that the things that we think are weird, to me, I guess, are normal because we've been so conditioned to think things are weird. I mean, look, I was in Palm Springs, and there was somebody doing readings there,

and I was like, I felt skeptical. I didn't go up and get a reading from this person, but I can see how people are skeptical naturally. But at the same time, I'm living this experience. I'm doing this experience. I just had somebody write me today, like, Wendy, you only gave me a 20-minute reading, but everything you said has happened. I'm freaking out, and I need another 20-minute reading, although I don't usually do 20-minute readings.

I just tried to help this person, but it happened, you know, things I predict that are very specific, so, so-specific happen all the time. And I'm just kind of, as you know, playful about it and not really so serious about it. Oh, the other thing I would say that I, learned. I mean, there's so much, Jack, honestly, you could do 50 episodes on the stuff I learned, but the things we make significant are not so significant. We make everything really hard on ourselves and very difficult. And we should be playing more and we should be lighter more and we should be having, like moving into a higher frequency of gratitude and love. But we, we should be. And we,

almost make problems. A lot of the things that we get upset about, they're lessons and then we frame it as, oh, this is a problem. It can be framed as a lesson. There's just been so much information. I've learned so much. I've learned so, so much from these readings, from the channeling, from all the readings I've done. I've done so many readings since this all began. I guess it's been almost seven years now of reading full time. and that's a lot of people. I've learned that the world that in general, that people are so good and so loving and that people really want to be loved.

And that I would say most, basically everybody I've read for, I have found something beautiful and good in all of them. How I think of it for me personally now is kind of like we are avatars and we put our consciousness into these, avatars to have these experiences and to grow. And we go back to source energy and we're all part of source energy. And we help in that expansion of source energy. And that's how I think of it.

In the first interview, you talked about like all these things that would break my brain that you wouldn't tell me. Is it, are these, are we talking about the things now? Okay. My brain's doing okay. I'm hanging in. So I wondered, you remember, you told me about something that happened a long time ago to you, an experience you had. And I said it was very similar to some of the weirder emails that I've gotten in the past. A thing that I haven't come out on the show yet, and I thought that they might be connected. Can we talk about that? Wow, you are real.

Now, this, I don't want in the... Okay. Okay. I don't want to talk about this. because it's too much. This whole part right here that we're discussing right now, you have to chop, chop, chop. You, will you?

Yes, I promise. I don't feel, I don't, like, I'm going to, how can I say this? Can you just make sure that none of this is on there that I'm going to say? I want to feel safe with you and I don't want to feel nervous about you. well turn off the voice memo i can't like turn it off and start it back up again after so wendy is very adamant about me not telling the story on the episode and i kind of don't blame her i promise i'm not being intentionally spooky right now like withholding this but

there's a reason that i'm so interested in wendy's story and the puzzle pieces if you will that it might hold. And it's because there's some, a few things she's told me privately that are very, very similar to some of the most bizarre emails I've gotten from certain people. And these are always people that are very confused about something that has happened to them. And I think maybe one day will eventually talk about this. Maybe one day Wendy will be down. And even if not, I think whenever these episodes do come out,

you'll probably understand. But I will just say that for me in doing the show, there's a pre-Wendy and a post-Wendy understanding for me of how I look at certain stories and what might be going on. I'll just leave it at that.

I think it's something that's very explained. That's why I think it's less woo-woo. I love the spiritual part of connecting, but I don't think any of it's woo-woo. I think it's very explainable of who we actually are. This is a lot. It's so exciting.

I hope that I figure out the right way to tell this full story. I think you will. I believe in you. I think you've done a great job with everything. The comments I thought were funny. I could tell that people were interested. in hearing more. Can I just say something that maybe you can put in somewhere? Because it's one of the most important things I could say is that if everybody who heard your podcast would forgive everybody

in their life, we could actually create some sort of change. That means you don't have to be like, I'm going to let people walk on me or step on me. But if we could, if every person that heard your podcast could move into a softness in their heart towards others and forgive them and feel love and compassion for others, we could actually create a change and shift. It would shift all of us because we're all so ultimately connected to one another. Is that one of the things that you've learned in those trances? I think that's the most important thing I've learned is that we need to forgive. We need to move into a higher frequency of love. It is probably the most important thing I've learned. The other things that I shared with you are kind of interesting, but the most important thing

we can do is move into a frequency, a higher frequency of love and forgive people and understand that there's almost like, well, there's lessons in all of it. And we don't have to repeat those lessons if we forgive those who came before. All right, Wendy, the last thing I wanted to talk to you about, and I might have mentioned this before, but have you ever heard of something called the gateway process? It was in the 80s when the CIA was investigating people who experienced something very similar to what you have experienced?

I don't know that much about it. I haven't, I mean, I just haven't had time to read. research, like I would love to explore it more and understand it more. I'm just doing it. I'm just living it and helping people as much as I can. I understood some of it. I couldn't understand all of it. It was pretty intricate. I thought the whole thing was really interesting because after talking to you for hours and hours, sort of in a vacuum of your own experience, I then stumbled across that and it's bizarrely thorough. Yeah.

Bizarrely thorough for a CIA document. And what they're describing is a very complicated scientific version of exactly what you described to me, basically. Yeah. Well, the thing I thought was interesting, too, is I think the article, didn't you say it was from the 80s? Yes. So imagine what they know now. I know. Yeah.

What I was just talking to Wendy about is something that I came across that changed everything for me. What I'm referring to is a specific declassified CIA report called the Gateway Process. For months, I listened to Wendy describe her experiences

and her personal way of making sense of these strange things that happened to her. What I think is so great about her is that she doesn't pretend to have all the answers. This report is from 1983, and it describes the CIA and the U.S. Army intelligence studying people like Wendy and a place called the Monroe Institute. This report also lays out very specific and highly detailed theories that explain what might be going on with Wendy biologically,

why she can know the things she knows, and how it could possibly be replicated on other people to give them these abilities. After months of listening to Wendy explain herself to me in her very Wendy way, it was shocking to read this paper and see the exact same things explained in a detailed scientific way. Now, I'm sure many people have heard about like Ronald Reagan making decisions based off the White House astrologer or the Carter administration using a clairvoyant. But this thing is different. It's unusually detailed. It's clear that they weren't just briefly looking at it.

into this. It definitely seems like they believed there might be something going on with all of this. Next week will be the last episode of the series, and I'll be doing my very best to go through the theories laid out in these declassified documents and see if there's something to learn about Wendy, people like her, and other mysteries we encounter on this show. And if you're curious, you could go read these documents yourself. Just search the gateway process. They're literally on the CIA website. Once again, before I leave, if you're you're interested in contributing to the show, patreon.com slash otherworld. This has been episode 23, and you've been listening to Otherworld. Otherworld is executive produced and hosted by myself,

Jack Wagner. The theme song is by Cobra Man. The soundtrack of this episode is by Theo Schaefer, Juice Jackal, and Treyer Deletore. Once again, a special thank you to Wendy, Vince, and Harmony for allowing me into their home and allowing me to tell the story. This is an independent show, so please show us your support by subscribing, leaving a five-star review, and telling your friends. If you want to follow us on social media, we're at OtherworldPod on Instagram and Twitter. Also, if you or somebody you know

have experienced something paranormal, supernatural, or unexplained, you could send us your story at Stories at Otherworldpod.com.