Otherworld - Episode 31: The Night Hag

Episode Date: May 8, 2023

During his childhood, Alec experienced a peculiar phenomenon where he would find himself outside of his own body at night. Upon awakening, he would observe his sleeping form before embarking on a journey to explore his own home. Initially, this activity was enjoyable, but he was apprehensive about entering a specific area downstairs, sensing an ominous presence beckoning him toward it. Eventually, he mustered the courage to venture into that area, only to be tormented by an entity for several hours, a haunting experience that persisted into his teenage years. Alec now believes the entity that tormented him in his childhood was The Night Hag or The Old Hag. This is a supernatural creature that shows up in almost every country and culture around the world, going back very far into history. In fact, the word nightmare even comes from folklore about this entity! This is part one of a two-part series. To see photos related to this episode, click here Subscribe to Otherworld on Patreon for exclusive content and bonus interviews Check out our Merch Follow us on: Instagram, TikTok, Twitter  If you have experienced something paranormal or unexplained, email us your full story at [e-mail] To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to Otherworld. I'm your host Jack Wagner. I'm very excited for today's episode because it begins to dive into a topic that I've heard a lot about, and it's something that has been experienced all over the world through many different cultures. I'll let our guest explain exactly what it is, but things like this really fascinate me. If you've heard episodes three and four, The Man in the Hat, you know all about the Hat, And when I put those episodes out, I was well aware that lots of people have seen this thing, but I truly could not believe how many people ended up reaching out to me saying that they had also seen the hat man. And I'm not talking about listeners.

Friends and family members of mine were calling me to confess that they had also seen the hat man. And they didn't even know it was a thing. It honestly became very overwhelming to be hearing all of these stories. And I can assure you that one day we will be coming back to that topic. But I bring all of that up just to say that even the weirdest things that we discuss on this show are often much, much more common than we even think. Today's episode is not about the Hatman. It's about something else. and this story comes from a man in North Carolina named Alec.

And as a child, Alex started to have very strange dreams that blur the line between sleep paralysis and real life. And honestly, I even hesitate to use the word dream. And I think you'll know why after you hear this. Now, he uses the term sleep paralysis, but sleep paralysis generally only lasts for a couple minutes. And I think when you hear, hear Alex's full story, you'll agree with me when I say that this sounds very different than

anything that I've ever heard about sleep paralysis. This is a very complicated story, so I think we should get started. This is episode 31. The title is The Nighthag Part 1, and you're listening to Otherworld. As Alex, I'm currently living in Asheville, North Carolina, but I've moved around a lot. So I was born in California, and I lived there until I was about nine. Then my family moved out here to, like, the Charlotte area. And I moved around a lot since, but I've been pretty much, like, North Carolina-based since around that time.

And so, like, I pretty much been an agnostic, like, most of my life, I went to to Catholic school, but I never really, like, found, like, a foundation there. And I've always been skeptical. I work, like, in the physical sciences. I consider myself, like, a materialist-oriented person. Like, I think you have to start with understanding things, like, from science. When the science can't explain it, you kind of move to philosophy. When philosophy can't explain it, you kind of move to, like, spirituality or mysticism, that type of stuff. So, my story like starts as a kid um like a lot of these types of things do and um i'll just kind of speak to it like as i understood things at the time and then maybe at the end give like broader context into what i think

it's all about and uh what all was happening so yeah when i was a kid we were living in california um in orange County. And like, it was like a new development. It was like a new house, two stories. My bedroom and my brothers and my family members, you know, my mom and dad, we were all up on the top floor. And several times, at least like three times as a kid, I would kind of wake up and I could see myself sleeping. I could see my family sleeping. And I could kind of walk around the house. in like a alternative world almost. Like nothing was out of place. You know, it was definitely my own real body.

I could see myself so I knew like I wasn't fully conscious. But there wasn't anything out of place. There wasn't anything like suspicious. It was definitely grounded like in, you know, in our reality here. Like I wasn't like floating around or anything. I wasn't like I had like weight. And so it was kind of like first thing I want to get out of my room. Like I want to see what everybody else is doing.

I want to just kind of like check it out. Like is anybody else awake? Like is anybody else kind of doing what I'm doing right now? Am I alone here? Because it seems like really quiet. It seems like I should be asleep. And I definitely need to be asleep. You know, like I have like, you know, like first grade in the morning or whatever.

And, you know, I would just kind of walk around. and have like free roam of the upstairs. I wouldn't really do anything like suspicious or creative. Like I wasn't like, you know, doing much other than just walking around and checking things out. And it feels like in reflection, like the time I spent like in the upstairs of my house, I got alone in this state was actually like quite small, you know, like a matter of like mere minutes compared to like the rest of the experience and what that felt like. So, you know, there was kind of like an attraction to the downstairs of the house, like, as if, you know, I should go down there. I should check something out, almost as if there was like a loud noise that like only I could hear or like an energy kind of drawing you down there. And it definitely peaked, you know, my curiosity. It was like almost like I had to check it out. Like I had to see what was down there. Like it was meant for me.

me or something like that. Like the upstairs was normal. It was a safe space. It had familiar faces. It had my, you know, I was up there, my parents, my brother. The downstairs was a mystery. Like, you know, there was a lot of potential as what could be occurring down there. So I would kind of go down the stairs.

There was like a half platform down the staircase before continuing down the stairs. And, you know, as like a kid, I would always pause there. to kind of figure out what was happening, you know, like, if my dad was watching, like, HBO or whatever late at night, I would, like, sit up there and kind of listen in. If my parents were fighting, I would kind of sit there and listen in, you know, when I was supposed to be, like, upstairs in my room. And so I would kind of pause there a little bit and then go downstairs. And I would go to the living room, which was connected to the kitchen, but separated by a bar. But you can still see over it. And there was, like,

hallway, you know, a doorway between the two. And so as I would walk in there, I would see this figure kind of behind the bar and it would kind of creep out and like stand in that doorway. And upon doing this, I would be frozen in my place. Like I couldn't move. I couldn't speak. I couldn't react in any way other than just stare. And it would make eye contact with me. And it was definitely like a you know, what felt like a more like womanly type presence, like a white face that was kind of hard to make out specific features. Black hair, long flowing black garbs that didn't really have like a discrete end. Like they were just kind of move and shift and like join the shadows, you know, of the night. And it definitely had like a maleficent presence to it.

And it felt like it was holding me in place. Like, I couldn't move or talk or anything because of it, because it had some amount of control over me. And from a distance of maybe like 12 or 15 feet away, it would send these shadows, like, along the floor. And they would kind of like shift and move really fast, and then they would pop up out of the floor and become like three-dimensional and kind of like stab me in the chest.

and almost as if it was trying to cut me open and get inside of me. You know, like, pry me open, like create, you know, like a way it could crawl inside, something like that. So it would like, like, the shadows, like, kind of like, you know, they would start on the ground, like, two-dimensional, like, obviously, like protruding from the body, though. Like, they had a source. They weren't just like the natural shadows, like, of the night.

or whatever. And they would move really fast, almost like in ripples, like, you know, like a wave kind of coming in after it's crashed on the beach. And then they would pop up, you know, maybe two feet in front of me and just kind of become like spears and stab into me. And it would just happen repeatedly, like hundreds, you know, of like penetrations. And for what would kind of feel like hours, but obviously it's hard to gauge time in that type of situation.

But it definitely outlasted any type of experience I was having in the upstairs in my house. Like it was much longer, you know. Yeah, like I could see it, I could feel it. I would want to scream. I would want to run. And I was unable to do any of that. Just like pure paralysis, like no function of anything other than really my eyes. It happened exactly that way at least three times

and it's kind of hard to remember if it was all like in a row or if these were spread out but like it definitely dominated like my psyche as a kid as like the way I interacted with sleep and there was one time that I kind of remember everything is a little bit blurry but I think there was at least a fourth time

where when I was paused on that platform of the stairs I kind of remembered what would occur, you know, if I would go back downstairs again. And so I instead decided to go back up and go into my room and, you know, get into bed and kind of like rejoin my body, essentially. And I don't remember if that woke me up or not. I don't remember if I would wake up from, you know, when I was being stabbed by the shadows. I don't remember how I would get back into my bed from those experiences. And it's all just kind of a blur as to how these things end. But those beginning and middle portions are very clear and vivid to me.

Like I have no doubt about the timeline, you know, of how those things would occur up until, you know, like the end. It definitely affected my psyche. Like I was kind of exhibiting like insomnia as a kid. Like I would stay up really late, not wanting to sleep. And, you know, around like two or three in the morning, I would just start crying intentionally to try to wake up my family so that I wouldn't be alone in the night and that they would have to come out and console me. And like then I would have a real excuse, you know, I'd like to go and sleep in their bed or something like that. And I couldn't do sleepovers. Every sleepover I ever went to.

I always did the same thing. I would cry. I would wake up my friend's family, and then they would call my family, and I would go home, you know, three in the morning or whatever. I couldn't really sleep alone, even, probably until I was 13 or 14.

I would sleep in my brother's bed most often, and I would also go into my parents' room secretly and, like, sleep on their floor in a sleeping bag. Like, it was the last thing I wanted to do was go to sleep because it would, allow these things to happen again. And like, so to this day, I don't even like sleeping. Like, I never want to go to bed.

I'd always rather stay up late and just do things. I am really sensitive to, like, to what's the typical witching hour, like, three o'clock. Like, I try to not be conscious at that hour. And, like, if I wake up in the middle of nine, I think it's around then. I just won't even open my eyes or anything. Like, I've never had a good relationship with sleep, and it all stems from this. And the fear of these things, you know, allowing to interact with me, you know, like, not during my waking hours. Like, you know, in the, in this sleep condition, I think I was more vulnerable to these types of experiences.

And it made me terrified, you know, to go to sleep, essentially. And I was just thinking these were like reoccurring nightmares. That was like a concept that I had like interacted with as a kid. You know, I didn't like I had more explanations now, but I wasn't aware of them as a kid. So, you know, I was just like, these are really scary nightmares. They last forever. I really don't want to have them again. And I'm terrified of going to sleep because, you know, what if it happens again, essentially?

essentially. Wait, so you thought you're saying this would happen to you for, you'd be stuck there for hours having that happened to you? I don't know if it was for like literal hours, you know, but that was my interpretation like as I was in it. And it definitely outlasted like anything I was doing upstairs in the house. You know, I was constantly trying to figure out a way to fight back to to get out of like the paralysis, like to be able to move or speak. And I was just unfruitful. Like, you know, if I could put it in like waking hours, like time, relative time, like everything in the upstairs of my house was maybe like 10 minutes.

Everything downstairs was probably like three hours, you know. Like that's kind of how it felt. And I think, you know, I don't even, I don't want to say with certainty, but I feel like at one point I could even like feel it becoming. dawn, you know, and like getting lighter outside, like, as this was occurring. Like, as if, like, my body, spirit, whatever, was trapped down there. And, like, the real earth time, you know, everything, like, was still going on. Like, and I was just kind of, like, living it, but in this, like, altered condition. But, like, time was proceeding as normal, like, outside of

that state. Okay, we have to take a quick break, but we will be right back. My parents, like, stills this day, I don't think I've ever told them about this, nor my brother. I think I've kind of mentioned some things, but not the complete story. So it caused some tension in the family because, like, they just didn't understand, like, why I couldn't sleep in my own bed. And, like, I had to grow up, you know, it's like, oh, you can't be doing this, you know, like, you're getting older. Like, you have to learn how to do this. And, you know, like, we did go to some doctors, like, just the pediatric. nutrition, you know, like for some advice as to like, oh, he's having trouble sleeping. Like, what should we do? And the recommendations were always just like, oh, you know, don't watch

scary things. Like, don't, you know, watch TV before you go to bed. Like kind of like, you know, stay hydrated, like the basics for like insomnia, you know, treatment symptoms. But we, we never did like a sleep study. It never went that far. But, you know, looking back, like I think it might have been like beneficial to have done so. But I was never like fully honest like with what I was going through. So I don't think there was like a like a severity that was like known. And I think the main reason for that is just I was like I don't think people will like believe me when I say this. Like this is like a kid having nightmares and it's not cause for like medical intervention or something. because this isn't real.

This is just, you know, a kid having nightmares. And so when we moved to North Carolina when I was nine, we got a new house there. I had my own room, and I was able to, like, set it up the way I wanted to. You know, I was nine, so I, like, I painted, like, camouflage on the walls and, you know, like, G.I. Joe's and stuff like that. And it was, like, a big deal because it was like, okay, this is your room. Like, you're going to sleep here.

This is a new house. We have a new start. You're not going to do that thing where you sleep in your brother's room. You come into our room. Like, this is your room. This is where you're going to sleep. So I, you know, I tried. And I never quite had the same experience as I did in the other house where I would wake up and get out of my body and see my family sleeping.

I think because I was older now, I think you're more likely to be able to do something like that when you're young. You don't have biases. and you know, you're less informed and aware of your body and, you know, the world. So instead of just getting up and walking around my house, I would wake up in the night with sleep paralysis, like a very typical case of sleep paralysis, which I didn't have the words for at the time either. And now I understand, you know, there's more research, you know, medical, scientific basis for that. But I would wake up and I could see, but it couldn't move or speak. I would always be on my back. I could see all around my room. Couldn't move, couldn't speak,

anything like that. The room was exactly as it was during the day. You know, nothing was out of place. Nothing was surreal except for, you know, the figure. She would be back, essentially. And in this house. It was definitely closer, whereas in the other house it was maybe 12, 15 feet. Now it was maybe like 8, 10 feet away, like definitely in my room, you know, like in the doorway of my room, but still in my room, which was new. Previously, it had always been in the downstairs of my house, you know, and when I would become frozen, there would be more distance between us. And it was just kind of the same repeat. You know, it's like, oh, hey, here I am again. Here's my shadows. I'm going to stab you. You thought, you know, going to a new house would get rid of me. It didn't. I'm here. I'm

following you. I'm not tied to that house. I'm not tied to any house. You know, I'm following you. And in that house, I only have one really clear memory and possibly a second one of it occurring. like I think it was decreasing in frequency. It definitely wasn't like as rapid-paced as my experiences as a kid. And I don't quite understand that. Maybe I was getting stronger. Maybe when you're older, these things are a little harder because you have more biases and ideas in your head.

And so you can protect yourself better. I'm not totally sure. I'm also like, you know, these were the first experiences of like a typical sleep paralysis state. And I don't know if that had something to do with it too. Like, I don't know why there was necessarily a difference, you know, why I couldn't leave my body anymore. There wasn't like an intention there. It wasn't like I'm going to intentionally not do that anymore. And I think that happened at least twice in that house.

And I still, same thing, didn't say anything to anybody. And, you know, it was like a lot because, like, I was in like fourth and fifth grade or more then. and that's like pretty abnormal behavior for somebody that age. Like usually people are sleeping without problems, you know. And the same kind of thing. Like when we went to the doctor, like then, and I brought it up, it was kind of dismissed. And it's kind of like, oh, well, you know, you need to stop watching horror movies with your brother and, you know, things like that. And it's like, okay.

Like I didn't really bring up, you know, what had happened before or anything. So, you know, there wasn't like a huge medical. cause for alarm or anything. And so I just kind of kept living with it in secret. And at this point in my life, I definitely had told zero people about this. Like, you know, nobody at all has, at this point in my life, has heard any of these things. And so it kept kind of going. Like, I had the sleep issues.

I had the nightmares. My other nightmares were not like that. They were just more typical. type nightmares, but kind of realistic. Like, so to this day, I, you know, I think I probably have 90% nightmares and like 10% like what you could call a dream. And a lot of those nightmares are very realistic. A lot of it is like family members dying and you going to their funeral and you going

to therapy after the funeral and then waking up and thinking for like five minutes that, like, your dad is actually dead or something like that, you know, just like very vivid things. And I think it all kind of stems from those experiences, like a natural fear of the night and of sleeping and it kind of like polluting, you know, the dreams that you could have and warping the nightmares that you are having into like more realistic things than what you would expect. And, you know, at some point my parents divorced and my mom got a condo separate from the house that we were living in. So at this time I was a freshman in high school. This is probably like the lowest point in my, you know, adolescent life. You know, freshman year of school sucks for everybody, but I was taking it extra bad. The divorce was kind of a lot.

I was also like coming out, you know, like being like a queer kid, like was a lot more difficult. Like it always has been, but like it was just like hard to figure out. There was like a lot of like depression things going on. And so I think I was like spiritually. probably weaker than I had been at any point in my life, you know, during that time period. And I was in, you know, my room in my mom's condo. It was in the upstairs, a two-story little condo. And this was the, what I'll say is the final, you know, fingers crossed encounter with this entity.

So this was late, you know, I was a freshman in high school. So I don't know, you're like 14 then maybe, something like that. So this is like kind of beyond like just childhood adolescent stuff. And this is really what's set home that this is like a big thing. You know, this isn't like a reoccurring nightmare. This is something different because I was in my room. I was asleep and I woke up with sleep paralysis. And I couldn't move.

couldn't speak, I could see. And the figure was in my room. I know the exact corner of the room it was in. Still to this day, my mom lives in that condo, and I have a special relationship with that corner of my room because of this. And it was staring at me. It was closer to me than ever before, maybe at max six feet away. And not only was it like closer, but it was interacting with me more. So it would stab me again in the chest and then pull in and shove its face in my face. And I couldn't close my eyes. So I would be forced to look at it. And it would kind of laugh at me when it would do so, as if, like, I know you don't want to see me, but I'm forcing you to, like, you can't ignore me. I'm here. And it would withdraw and then do that again very quickly.

And it would kind of, like, do that from different sides of my bed. You know, like, the bed was in the center of the room, so you could do it from the foot or the left or the right of the bed. And, like, it could move, like, in an instant, you know, it wasn't, like, tired. to like human anatomy or anything like that. And the face was more vivid than ever before. I don't recall many specifics. You know, definitely like a white face, you know, but I think it was also like cracked, you know,

essentially like old decrepit, you know, a lot of cracks in the skin. Just like a really scary, unsightly, evil look. And it was laughing. stabbing me and carrying on for probably like an hour in that exact fashion. You couldn't ever see any like actual anatomy other than the face, you know, because these like black shadowy robes would like, you know, just kind of like overwhelm its whole body.

And they were almost like tentacles in a way, you know, like they weren't like arms and legs. It was like there was a lot of them and they could move. interact however they wanted and they could turn into those spears and like stab you and hold you down um and uh you know it had me pinned there in the bed i was on my back and it had me pinned and it had me pinned and i knew because it was closer and because this was occurring like still you know in a third house um and it was attacking me like it hadn't before like putting its face in my face and laughing. I'd never heard it laugh before. I knew this was serious. This was like a, like a showdown, you know? And so, like with all my strength, for the very first time of my life, I was able to

talk in this condition. And it felt like, you know, like ripping like super glue off your lips or something to do so, you know, like incredibly hard. I had to like physically mouth it. And I think, you know, if you had seen me like in my, you know, if a third party had walked into my room and looked at me, it would see my face like struggling to mouth words. And then I probably would have verbally, you know, in my sleep and in this state, you know, get out these words, which were essentially get out. You know, that's what I was able to say, get out. and upon doing so, the figure screamed, no, no. And in like a pitch that was like an earthquake, like it physically shook my entire room.

It was like the loudest thing you could hear like a bomb going off, but like right inside of your ear and like nowhere else. You know, like it was like contained to just, you know, your own head. This noise was like protruding. And I woke up, drents and sweat. I turned on all the lights in my room and I didn't sleep. I went downstairs and I stayed up all night. And I don't even know if I slept the next night either. And fingers crossed, that was the last interaction I ever had with the entity.

And this is kind of where, like, the additional context can come in because, like, at this point in my life, I was a freshman in high school. So I was kind of interested in this more. You know, I was like, okay, this wasn't, like, just a reoccurring nightmare. So what was this? And I kind of just passively, like, you know, tried to push it away and not think about it. And then about four years later, I went and I saw that movie Insidious. And I saw what I had experienced to an extent as a kid reflected in art, like back at me in a horror movie. And if, you know, if people haven't seen it, like there's this main character who's being stalked.

He, as a kid, he could, like, astro project is what they called it, where he could walk around in this, like, other world. and this like dark, white-faced woman entity followed him, got closer and closer to him, and eventually like got into his body, spoiler. And while watching this movie, I had a panic attack. It became instantly aware to me that this thing that I had never talked about before was not only happening to me, at least not explicitly, that this was something that other people have had some interaction with. And I knew that because it was being reflected back at me

in this movie and art. And that's when I decided, okay, I have to start talking about this. The pain attack, like, I don't believe in, like, repressed memories necessarily. Like, I don't think, if I'm correct, I don't think they really, like, hold up in, like, modern psychology. Like, unless there's, like, intentional repression or, like, really intense. trauma or something, but it was almost as if all the details that had pushed back and not thought about since I was a kid came to light, like all in a row and all the dots connected as I was watching that film. So the astral projection, I finally had a word for it when I was a kid and I can

get out of my body and I can look around. I was like, okay, astral projection, you know, that's where your spirit can leave your physical body, you know. Sleep paralysis, okay, that's when you can wake up in the night, but you can't move. because like your your brain is awake but your body is like still sleep essentially because you're in that like soft part of part of like a REM sleep cycle or whatever and then it's like okay spirit realm like you know there's potentially like another realm other than like the you know human realm and like the spirits can sometimes live and interact in that realm and so these concepts kind of like connected you know I was definitely freaked out

I didn't let it show, like, because I was with my mom and dad, or my mom and brother, and I don't want to, like, freak out and, like, have that conversation and, like, be so, like, affected in public. But, like, again, I don't think I slept, like, three nights after watching that movie. Just not that the movie itself is, like, special or unique or whatever, but just that those, the concepts in that movie, like, brought it all to light and just made it aware that, like, not only did this, happen and like it definitely happened. It's happened to us other people and there's themes here.

Like it's not, they're not all disconnected. There is some connection here. So I started talking about it after that. The few people that I did tell that believe me still talk about it this day with me. And, you know, so sporadically after that I would tell people like nobody in my family but my best friends. And later in life, I did meet, like, some other friends. I was working at a restaurant, and, you know, a lot of them had like a Buddhist background, specifically like Theravada Buddhism. And they, like, you know, they incorporate a lot of spirits and things like that into their mindset, you know, their religion, their philosophy, whatever. And, and, and, and, and they have explanations for things that when I was talking about kind of made sense.

And it started putting this all like in a framework that I thought was like a healthier way to deal with things. And it made sense to me. And, you know, I had those conversations. You know, that was during college. At one point I moved away from college or, you know, from where I was going to college and moved to Washington State where I had a job there. First day in the office there, one of my co-workers comes in and gives me this weird stare and I just kind of stared back at him because it was like a seeing each other type of stare. It wasn't like a judgmental thing.

And then about a month later, he comes up to me and he's like, hey, I want you to meet my mom. Like, can I take you to my house? And I was like, okay, yeah, sure. Because like I didn't know anybody. I hadn't been like talking or hanging out or socializing at all. So I went back to his house with him just to try to get to know a co-worker. And his mom lived in the house next door. And he was like, okay, so when I saw you at first, I knew you were an empath.

And I wanted you to come and meet my mom because she's a medium. And I think you guys will have a lot to talk about. And this was like before I had explained any of my stuff to him. And so I was like, okay, this is kind of strange, but let's do it. So I went and I talked to his mom. who was a medium. She was instantly kind of in link with everything I was saying. She didn't doubt anything I had to say. She accepted it fully and then she started giving me some answers. She told me that I have an X on my forehead that, you know, a lot of empaths are going to be attracted to me

and I'll be attracted to them. And, you know, I think this is pretty much true. Like a lot of my friends also believe in these types of things. It's like I kind of filter people for these things. You know, like if I'm dating somebody, like the first date, you know, I'll be like, hey, do you believe in ghosts? If they say no, that's like a huge check against them. You know, it's like, okay, we're not going to, there's going to be a limited amount of interaction we can have, like, at a certain point when getting to know each other. But this medium, you know, it was like, you have an X on your head. Other people are going to be attracted. to you and everything that you experienced was real. Don't be afraid of it. It was all real.

You are not crazy. You're not hallucinating. You were being stalked as a kid because you could leave your body and when you did so, you became vulnerable because your physical body was separated from your spiritual body. And upon an entity realizing that, they saw an opportunity to essentially possess your physical body so that they can have more power and more, you know, strength and continue some form of life, perhaps. And it stalked you. It wasn't tied to a house. So it went, you know, followed you throughout your life through these different houses.

And, you know, that's why, like, when you changed, it didn't go away, like, it still kept following you because it was attracted to you and your spirit. it still saw that opportunity. And as I was getting closer, it was trying to make its move. And in what I had said was the final confrontation, when it was screaming no, I was luckily reassured that that was because I had essentially cast it off successfully because humans are stronger than spirits. We have our physical and our spiritual selves.

They only have their spiritual selves. as much powers they can create, we are still stronger than them. And if we can stand up to them and cast them off, which I believe I did when I say get out, then we can defeat them. And still to this day, that was the last experience I ever had. The insight that Medium gave me was helpful to just kind of realizing that this wasn't like crazy, you know, that this did happen and that I just grew up in a culture where there's no contact, to understand these things or speak about them freely.

And they are significant and you shouldn't, you know, push these back to your head. You should, you know, kind of dissect them and engage with them and then move on with your life. And that's like my part of the story. There's a lot of like research and cultural context and art reflections that I've seen since then. And I don't understand it all. You know, like, I think the sleep paralysis stuff has a foundation in science and I'm totally open to future scientific explanations for some of these things, if not all. I don't, you know, I'm not against that understanding. I think these things have been going on for longer than I've known, you know, than I had been experiencing it.

When you look these things up, you look these symptoms up online. You kind of come across this theory, or this hypothesis, rather, you know, which is like the Nighthack. And this is like kind of another can of worms that we can open up. It's not my own experience necessarily, but there's a lot of crossover between what I saw as a kid and what other people have attributed to this entity in their experiences. Okay, so I'm just jumping in to give a brief explainer. The night hag, also known as the old hag, is one of many names given to an old woman entity that is seen by people all over the world.

Oftentimes, this is associated with sleep paralysis, and people see and feel the hag sitting on their chest, or the victim's chest. There's some version of it in almost every country and culture. If you just browse Wikipedia, you can see it broken down by continent and country. And it would be very difficult to find a place where some version of this does not exist in their culture. In fact, the word nightmare originally referred to this specifically. That's how long it's been going on. Now, this is a very, very big topic. I could probably do an entire show just studying this and never run out of material.

But for now, let's get back to the episode. What I've experienced that, I think there needs to be more communication and coordination around these concepts here. Because there's so much crossover. There is variability. Like with me, like I think I did astro project and like, you know, like certain meditation practices or yoga practices, like say that is something that you can like intentionally do. But there's not like much of a scientific basis for it, you know. So I don't know. Like that's not part of everybody's typical story.

Like most people only experience this in sleep paralysis. I also never had anything explicitly sitting on my chest, but I did have something trying to get into my chest. So there is variability. I don't have a one for one with any other story I've heard, but there's definitely a lot of crossover. And like I would be open to a scientific explanation. You know, I would be like, oh, like under these certain traumas

or these certain conditions, you get this hormone. or chemical that creates this specific hallucination or whatever. But that's not where I think it's at. Like I don't, I would be open to that, but I don't think that's where it's at. So this is what's so confusing to me is like, I don't know if this is like one powerful spirit entity or like a species of them almost. Where I met with it now is like, you know, an amalgamation of what my friends have told me in that medium is like, you know, I was targeted because I was actually objecting.

Spirit left the physical body. It followed me, you know, throughout time and geography. Like, that stuff doesn't matter. And I was able to successfully cast it off because humans are stronger than spirits. I think that it is a real phenomenon. Other people have experienced it. It has, you know, a different cultural context. And I think those cultural contexts are helpful in understanding it, but I do think there is something broader occurring here that goes beyond just like our cultural religious understanding of it.

And I will say that like if you, if anybody listening is like had this, like it's real. Like you're not crazy. You don't have to like act like it was nothing. If it affected you, it affected you. And like don't be alone in this, you know? you're not the only person. This has been a thing throughout history and culture. And it is significant.

Like in the very least, you know, you experience something that is like on the edge of like our scientific understanding of what sleep and sleep paralysis is in the very least. And the most you very well could have interacted with like an entity in the spirit realm. And anything in between that is significant. You know, the least significant outcome or scenario for this is still something that, you know, is impactful in your life. And if you haven't experienced this stuff, consider yourself lucky. Like, don't seek it out. Don't, you know, don't do any of this stuff. Like, don't try to create astro projection.

Don't try to create sleep paralysis. I used to do dream journals and lucid dream and, like, set alarms to wait. up so that I can intentionally lose a dream. Don't do any of that stuff, really. I mean, dream journals, maybe, but like don't try to intentionally lucid dream. Don't do sleep paralysis intentionally. Leave this stuff alone. Okay. Thank you to Alec for telling us that story. That one was really mind-blowing to me, specifically the fact that he was experiencing this for hours at a time in a completely lucid state. It's hard to comprehend. and I think you could see how much it affected him with how long he ended up sleeping in his parents' room

through his teenage years. Now, for that reason, I knew that this is much more than a simple ghost story. So I started to look into it and actually there's been a decent amount of research done on this over the years. And some really interesting scientific papers and studies have been published on the subject. But honestly, as I was looking for answers, I just ended up finding more questions. Not only have people all over the world and throughout history experienced the same thing, people have actually died in their sleep after seeing the night hag. In fact, hundreds of deaths have been linked to it, and it was studied at length by the CDC. This sounds made up. This is not made up. This is completely real. In 1975, Hmong refugees that fled Vietnam after the war

began suddenly dying in their sleep. And this specific group of people was studied at length. It was studied thoroughly by doctors, scientists, and anthropologists. And in the investigations of the people who suddenly died in their sleep, the family and friends of the deceased said that the person had been experiencing attacks at night from this same entity. In fact, 97% of the people involved believe that is the cause of death for these 100 plus people that died. And scientists did not find any conclusive explanation for this. And they simply just called it sudden unexplained death syndrome or sudden arithmetic

death syndrome. It's one of those things where they kind of gave it a name, but have literally no idea what it is or why it happens. And these deaths are a mystery to this day. So I've been researching this, and I'm covering all of it in a very, very long follow-up episode that's going to be available this week on the Other World Patreon. I'm joined by Josh Sidorella, and we both spent weeks reading studies and papers on this very big subject. Honestly, the more we learned, the more questions we ended up having. This is a very, very strange phenomenon, and I'm surprised it's not discussed more. If you want to hear that episode, it's going to be on Patreon this week.

Sign up at patreon.com slash otherworld for just $5 a month. It's also a very great way to support the show, but we dive really, really deep into this topic, and it was very interesting reading about all of this. And honestly, a little unsettling, but it was fun recording this episode and I think you're all really going to enjoy it. So once again, patreon.com slash otherworld to hear the follow-up, the Nighthag part two.

Thank you again to Alec for telling us that story. I'm certain this is not the last time we'll be discussing this topic. Even for the most skeptical person, I think it's hard to deny something that's been experienced so often and by so many around the world and something that has absolutely no

evolutionary explanation or purpose for occurring. These are exactly the type of stories we want to hear and the questions that we want to try to answer on this show. This has been episode 31, the Nighthag, and you've been listening to Otherworld. Otherworld is hosted and executive produced by myself, Jack Wagner. Our theme song is by Cobra Man. The soundtrack of this episode is by Juice Jack.

editing and engineering by Theo Schaefer. The artwork for our show is by Coltosec Studios. This is an independent show, so please show us to your support by subscribing, leaving a five-star review and telling your friends. And like I said, if you want to hear the follow-up to this, or just support the show and hear a lot of other bonus content we have up, go to patreon.com slash otherworld to sign up. If you want to follow us on social media, we're at Otherworld Pod on Instagram and Twitter.

Also, if you or somebody you know, have experienced something paranormal, supernatural, or unexplained, you could send us your story at stories at otherworldpod.com.