Otherworld - Episode 4: The Man in the Hat Part 2

Episode Date: October 13, 2022

In part two of The Man in the Hat we speak to the site owner, administrator, and researcher for The Hatman Project in hopes of getting some answers about what has been terrorizing brothers, Lucas and Austen.  The man behind the project is Timothy Brown Jr., and it turns out that he not only saw this thing himself but that the experience affected him so much that it inspired him to become a pastor. Since his own encounter, he has been documenting people from around the world who have come into contact with the Hat Man. Please subscribe and help spread the word about Otherworld by telling your friends and leaving us a good review! Remember that the more people that know about Otherworld, the more stories you’ll get to hear. To see photos related to this episode, click here Subscribe to Otherworld on Patreon for exclusive content and bonus interviews Check out our Merch Follow us on: Instagram, TikTok, Twitter   If you have experienced something paranormal or unexplained, email us your full story at [e-mail] To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All right, everybody, welcome back. This is episode four of Otherworld. I'm your host, Jack Wagner. This is part two of The Man in the Hat. If you haven't heard part one, that's episode three. I highly recommend going back and listening to it. This is a complicated story, and it'll be pretty confusing if you listen to this

without having heard the first part. So, at the end of the episode, Austin happened to mention to me something that I didn't know before. That was that Lucas had found some kind of online community of people who had seen similar things. Then during that interview, I'm looking at the website. I find this community and it's really interesting. That's how that last episode ended. This thing that people see is called The Hatman.

There's tons of sightings of this, and I guess they go back in history. There's a lot. There's a lot. I mean, it's just, it's definitely something. It's definitely something to consider. I don't know if their story is exactly connected to it, but it's something that I wanted to know more about and at least talk to somebody that could tell me whether or not it's connected.

I had heard of this before, but just didn't think about it because it wasn't exactly the same as what they saw, but then after going to the site, it just really stuck out to me. And I think what stuck out the most was how many people are seeing this. And I just had this moment where I was, seeing it and thinking to myself, something's going on here. They're all seeing the same thing. So even if you think these people are crazy, they're all crazy in the same way.

So even that is noteworthy. Something's going on, no matter what you believe. So I reached out to the person who runs this website. It was a little hard pinning him down. And to be honest with you, I really did not think I was going to be able to make this interview happen. but at the very last minute, he responded to me. We had a long conversation about this stuff, and I learned a lot from him.

I don't think I anticipated how much of his life revolved around the Hatman. One thing that I learned immediately is that he's a priest. I did not expect that. I don't know what I was expecting, but I did not expect a priest. In fact, he became a priest. a priest because of his experiences with the Hatman. So I think that's noteworthy.

Seeing this affected him so much that he decided to become a priest. For that reason, he speaks a lot about his faith, and he speaks about this a lot from a Christian perspective. I wouldn't normally have somebody on this podcast talking so much about a specific religion if it didn't involve a story, but I think in this case, it's okay to make an exception. I don't know if you can really use the word expert

when it comes to talking about any topic like this, one where nobody knows anything about it. But if there is an expert on this, I can't imagine that there's anyone who's read more encounters with the Hatman than this guy. This website has thousands of submissions, and there's a ton posted up there if you want to go read. He says that he's backed up and there's thousands that he hasn't even gotten around to reading yet. I'm going to play the interview that I did with this dude.

Like I said, this is just one person's opinion. He has a lot of very strong opinions. It's just one man's thoughts. And I think you're really going to enjoy it. So let's get this started. This is episode four, The Man in the Hat, Part 2. and you're listening to Otherworld. Press 1.

To send a voicemail, press 2. Yo. Hey, Jack. Okay, this sounds pretty good. Okay, yeah. Yeah, it's pretty good on my end, too. You sound a little muffled, but as long as you can hear me, okay, I guess that's cool. All right, I could hear you.

It'll at least be consistent, I think. So, how did you, I mean, so you run this website called the Hatman Project. Right. You also told me that you're now a pastor. How did this start for you? Yeah, so it all started for me. My first ever experience with the supernatural was when I was six years old. And basically what happened was I was raised by my great-grandmother and my grandmother.

And I remember one night I was in the room and I saw what a lot of people today call shuttle beings. It was just a being that was standing there and was very tall, very big. big, very foreboding looking. And I remember red eyes. And I remember, you know, of course, telling my great grandmother about it. And they didn't really believe me. They didn't, they thought I was just, you know, a kid with an overactive imagination or whatnot. So it was nothing really thought about it for another few years. And then about seven years later is when I had my, my major experience. And that's where kind of the beginning of the Hatman project started, I guess, is my own personal experience.

But I was sleeping in my bedroom, not sleeping, but I was going to bed. And I remember laying there with the blanket kind of pulled up to my face. And where my room was positioned, I didn't have a door. But you could see right out the end of my room into my great-grandmother's room. She was asleep. And then past her bedroom was the hallway. And my grandmother was sleeping in the bedroom there. So as I was laying there, all the lights were out.

There was a small light that was on in the kitchen, so there was a little bit of light, but not much. And I remember I was just laying there watching TV. I was 14 years old, and out of the corner of my eye, I saw this figure step into my great-grandmother's room. And he had a long black cape. It was, in fact, the color, I'll say this at the beginning. the color of this thing was the only way that I can describe it is that he was blacker than black, if that makes any sense. In other words, you could be in a completely dark room, and you're going to see this being

because the blackness of this being is darker than the darkness of the room. So he steps into the room, and I could see the flowing cape-looking thing. He had this wide-brand hat, and he just stared. Just stared. He was staring all the way through. my grandmother's room into my room. I was terrified. And I didn't know what it was. I thought we had an intruder in the house. And so I sat there and tried to muster up some courage because I knew that I needed to do something. I was the man of the house. My grandmother and great-grandmother.

So I kind of counted the three in my head. I'm like, okay, one, two, three. I'm going to get up. I'm going to grab something and I'm going to go after this guy, right? So I kind of watched him for a second and I looked around and like trying to identify what I'm going to grab to to go try to hit this guy and I looked at the corner of my eye and he stepped back into the hallway and then he turned his back toward me and leaned in toward my grandmother's room and I thought okay this is my opportunity so I jumped up and I grabbed I had a pair of nunchucks I was in karate I was a teenager and I had a pair of nunchucks so I went off and I went yelling through the house going after this thing Well, I turned the corner, it was gone.

Huh. So I woke up everybody in the house, freaked everybody out, and my grandmother comes out, and she goes, you know, it's funny you say that because just last night, I was asleep in bed, and I saw a figure walk by the hallway, and I got up thinking it was my mother, which is my great-grandmother, and she goes, I thought she was wearing a bathrobe, and I thought that was so odd because she doesn't ever wear bathrobes. So I realized, and we both realized that we had both seen something strange, and we couldn't really figure out what it was. Okay. So that was my experience with the Hatman. That was my first experience with the Hatman. And then fast forward probably another six or seven years, I get married. And I remember one night I was working late, and I was on my way home.

And you ever listened? You remember the old show Coast to Coast A.M. with George Norrie? Of course. Yeah. Well, so I had that thing flipped on on the a.m. And I remember hearing a story about they called it the Hatman. This was around probably 2000, 2001, somewhere around that neighborhood. And I had completely pushed that out of my head.

Like, for years, I thought, well, maybe I was just seeing things. That was just kind of weird, you know, da-da-da-da. And then when I heard these people on George Norris or Art Bell's show, man, it just made the hair of my head, you know, back on my neck stand up. I was freaked out, man. So at that point in my life, I was dabbling and building websites for people and whatnot, and I thought, I really need to know what this is about. Now, the internet was still pretty young at that point, so there wasn't a lot on the internet about it. So I decided to create a project called the Hatman Project.

And so basically I just built a simple website. I put my story out there and just said, hey, has anybody else had this experience? I already knew from the radio program that a lot of people were having it, so I thought, well, maybe if I put a website up, I'll get stories. Well, long story short, I've received thousands of stories over the last 20 years. And, you know, one of the things that I did early on in the project was just read every single story and look for points of commonality. You know, what are the things that are common among these stories?

And is there anything that kind of gives us some insight as to what this experience is? You know, what can be done about it, you know, especially if you're having a negative experience, what can be done about it? So that's kind of where it started. And it's just kind of grown from there. What are the signs or the common things that you've seen? What are like the main common themes you've seen between these thousands of stories? Yeah, so as far as points of commonality, the stories are almost always in unison.

Hatman almost always appears in people's lives when there's chaos or addiction or pain and suffering, either right before or right after. It seems like it's always somewhere around there. So a lot of times people say I'm seeing the Hatman and I'm like, okay, what's going on in the house? You know, is it drugs? Is it alcohol? Is it raging? Is it, you know, people being beaten in the house? It's violence. It's almost always, and I don't, I can't give you a percentage. It would be really good if I could, but a very high percentage of these appearances occur in households where there is a lot of chaos either about to happen or is happening. About to happen. That's interesting. Like, people didn't know chaos would happen yet. Yeah, yeah. There were times, many stories that I've known where people, especially those who felt like that this was a good being, there's been several cases where people thought that this was like a spirit guide or like a guardian angel or something along those lines. And they will actually welcome him into their lives. And yeah, chaos typically ensues in different ways. People get sick, people die, divorces, addiction, suicide. It's very, very connected to this entity. When people accept it, he appears more?

He appears more and also to the, there's a lot of deception that goes into it as well. I found out that these beings are what the biblical writers, for those of you who understand, you know, Christianity or, you know, the Bible, these are what the Bible calls demons. and they're malevolent beings, they're dark beings. They feed on dark energy and they create chaos. I'm not sure if the story I'm calling you about is even connected to what your website's about the Hatman, but is there any visual common themes that you've noticed with all the stories that people submit to you? Oh, visual? Yeah, visual. It's almost always described the same. there's two or three out there that I believe are higher up than the regular shadow beings.

I think regular shadow beings are just your typical average demon, but they're not unorganized. They are very organized. And there is a system in place of these beings, and there are other beings that are of higher order than those beings that are kind of like overseers or managers, if you will. Hatman is one of those. He is appearing all over the place. There's not a single nation on the earth that he doesn't appear in. I've received stories from practically every nation over the earth. And the stories are very similar.

He's always described as a being with a long flowing cape and a hat, blacker than black. Sometimes there are some variations. Some people will say they've seen red eyes, which I remember seeing red eyes on a being, like I said, when I was six. So I know that that's possible. very, I'd say 20% of the stories talk about the red eyes. And then you'll have a very small minority of the stories, I'd say probably 5%, 2, 3%, maybe,

that will describe facial features, like they can actually see more distinguishable features. But that's very rare, very, very rare. The times where people do describe facial features, what do they say about it? Just nothing very distinguishable, but they can see like, Like, sometimes they describe dark skin, brownish skin, like dead skin almost. I don't know, just very odd kind of stuff. Or kind of an odd texture, like you can feel, but you can't really feel it. It's like you go through him.

But there's some type of tangibility to him. There have been people who have described that. So are there, do you ever get emails where people describe something similar? And you're like, okay, that. That's not the hat man? Yeah, sure. And what does that like? Yeah, there's another being.

There is another being that's very, very widely seen by many people. And this one is, I don't know that it has a name, but it's a hooded figure. It's a hood figure. Like imagine, you know, like an old monk, you know, with a hood over their heads. They describe a dark shadow being like that. And how does that one appear? That one I don't hear about much. I just know of him.

I just know that a lot of times people describe him. But again, Batman is by far the most prevalent. I wasn't a Christian always. Part of my journey in becoming a pastor was because I became so aware of the spiritual reality that goes on around us all the time. Early on, my research took me into ancient stories of demons and shadow beings. And I didn't really put two and two together. about it being a demon until I started learning some of these categories of thinking that go back,

you know, thousands of years. But there are ancient stories that talk about shadow beings and demonic figures. Now, I can't find anything in ancient history regarding Hatman. Why I don't know. But as far as these beings, they are in the human written record for thousands of years going back. and one of the biggest points of commonality. And if it's someone who is into the occult, then typically they will perceive the experience to be positive and they will think it's good. But the overwhelming majority of people who have this experience

also feel, there's like a strong sense of emotion that comes with the experience. They feel fear, they feel dread, they feel paralyzed. There's many, many, many stories of people waking up and being paralyzed, having a sleep paralysis, and then seeing the figure standing at the foot of the bed, hovering over them, watching over them. They're unable to talk, almost like it has some type of control over their lives. So I became convinced early on that the being was not good.

It was dark, and I knew that just from my own experience, but I knew that I had to, I had to see it from a broader perspective. What was the general consensus of all the stories? And the general consensus of all the stories is that this was not a good being. It was a malevolent being. And so the more I got into the ancient, you know, the Book of Enoch, for example, talks about these beings at length, actually. A lot of people don't realize it, but these beings are talked about at length in that book.

And it describes, you know, the fact that these are earthbound spirits. They're not angels. They're not fallen angels, a different category of being. fallen angels are a whole different category. These are earthbound spirits that have heightened sense of passions, and they seek to try to live out those passions vicariously through hosts that they attach themselves to, almost like a leach attaches itself to a human. Does that make sense? Yeah. Okay. So that's what they do. They're feeding off of you, and they're also injecting

you with, the only way I can put it is spiritual poison because of the result that it leaves in people's lives. Huh. So let me ask you this before I explain the reason I'm calling. Yeah. How many of these submissions are people experiencing sleep paralysis? Because I know there's some kind of shadow being that people see all the time when they have sleep paralysis.

I do now. I do now. I used to not. I think, personally, I think sleep paralysis is something very scary for people, but I don't view it as paranormal, generally. So how many of these stories involve sleep paralysis? Let me make a quick correction. If I made it sound as though split paralysis is a major indicator of the Hatman experience, it's not the case. It's a minority experience of the Hatman.

The majority of them are waking experiences. So you'd say most of the time these people are awake when they see that? happen? Yeah, they're awake. And you can go read the stories. Most of the stories are on the, the website. If you want to ever read them yourself, there's a bunch. There's a bunch of, and I've gotten so behind on it, too. I get four or five stories a week, and I just don't have the time dedicated to put them out every time. But I'm probably backed up now with about 300 stories that need to be on the website. They're not there right now. What do you think is the most compelling story or piece of evidence that you've found so far? Oh, I guess my own story. I mean,

You know, your own story. That's the one that leaves you chill in the middle of the night, right? Yeah, I mean, my experience was a waking experience. You know, I was not asleep. Now, since that time, I've had several experiences, I think, because I've interjected myself into this so deeply, I've had attacks. I've had demonic attacks against me and my family as a result of this, which has solidified my belief that these are dark malevolent beings.

you know, I've started to help people be free of this encounter. And there are things that will begin to happen around that when we will perform an exorcism or something along those lines, you know, cast out demons or cast out demonic entities from a person's home. And again, like 95% of the time, man, it's almost always associated with something having to do with their lives. they're getting involved in stuff that they shouldn't be getting involved in, and it's drawing these beings to their home, or these beings are attaching themselves, and as a result, there's resulting chaos in the home. I kind of want to hear about those attacks, but I should tell you why I'm calling you today.

So, yeah, let me tell you a little bit about this. I'm going to tell you the basics of what happened to these two brothers that I've been talking to, and I just want to. hear what you think. I'm not sure if this is related to the hatman or anything that you report on, but I'll give you the bullet points to the best of my ability. Sure. All right, obviously we could skip this, but right here I shared with Tim the entirety of Austin and Lucas's story. I've played it for him because that's the entire reason why I'm calling. So I'm just going to skip right ahead to his reaction after hearing the story. Huh. Now that's up first. I have never heard a

story about the hat coming off before. Really? Yeah, never, never. So you think this is the hat man? Well, it sounds like him. I mean, it sounds a bit more tangible than what I've experienced. But again, like I said, there's been a small minority of people who have seen distinguishable features.

I mean, it sounds connected. If it's not the same being, it's certainly connected, because it's the same kind of stuff. and so many of these crazy wacky dreams where they're just staring at you and they're just filling you full of dread that's so common man it's very very common it's interesting you say that one of them

I forgot to tell you this one of them is allergic to peanuts or something and he's had anaphylactic shock which a symptom of that is dread like a medical feeling of dread that you get and he said that's the only thing he could compare to the feeling that he had seeing the hat man

or whoever it is that you saw. Very sick feeling, feeling sick in your stomach. Yeah. Like the whole world's going to end. Yes. So what do you make of that story after hearing that? You know, whenever I talk to people, and I try to be very respectful

just because I know that now, I mean, early on I didn't have a bias, but I certainly do now because of what I believe these things to be. You know, I always ask them, say, listen, are you okay with me coming at this? from a Christian perspective. And, you know, nine times out of ten, most people are okay with that.

And then I'll just, I'll put my pastor hat on and say, look, what's going on in your life? You know, what's going on in your background? What's the trajectory of your life? What do you plan in your life? Because a lot of times these beings, they thwart God's plan. They try to thwart God's plan. They can't really, they can't really do anything against you

in terms of being a Christian. but when you, or even a non-Christian, they can't really do anything without your permission. And so what they try to do is they influence you. They use deception. They use dreams. They put fear in you. They get you to change your perspective and your attention toward other things so that way you're fulfilling their will, their plan, what helps them with what they're wanting. They are spiritual leeches.

That's the best way that I can describe it. They attach themselves to you. and they it's like an exchange they there I don't know what it is I can't describe it there's been so many stories I've had it I've had one experience where I've saw the attachment myself and there's some type of exchange it's like they're feeding off of something in you whether it's the fear or or what but but what you receive in return is horrible depression anxiety suicidal thoughts feelings of anger raised murder, sexual, you know, molestation, rape.

I mean, it, these beings are not to be played with. I'll put it to you. I'll put it that way. They are very highly organized, by the way. There is a system in place with these beings, and they have a hierarchy. What do you know about the system and hierarchy? What makes you say that? Well, I didn't learn about it until later on.

When I started having more experiences, it became clear to me through the stories that I was reading that the Hatman was kind of, bite the ring leader for a lot of the other ones, you know, the smaller ones. And then once I got into some of the ancient studies and, you know, Book of Enoch and, you know, some of the other stuff that I was reading, I realized that the demonic realm is very highly organized. Of course, you have the fallen angels, which would be kind of like your Senate, right? They're the ones at the top. And Lucifer, Satan, devil, whatever you want to call him, the big one or whatever, he's kind of at the tip top.

And then he's got, you know, kind of like on God's side, you've got angels. and archangels and so on and so forth. While on the dark side, you've got the same exact thing. They're just highly organized. The ones that you typically wind up seeing are the foot soldiers, right? The little ones. And these are the ones that are being directed

in different places for strategic purposes, of which I don't know. But yeah, they're organized. And how do you differentiate between the different ranks of these ones? Like, for instance, what are the small ones, the small ones, what do they look like? Well, when I say small, when I say small, I mean small in power.

They look like human beings, just straight up, what people call shadow beings. They look like a human figure, but they're black. And the other ones, if I'm assuming what you're asking me is the ones like the hat man, it seems like these higher up ones, they like to have distinguishing features. They want, they want swag. Like a hat, like a cape, like electricity or whatever, you know, this other one or the hood. You know, it's very distinguishable features. Okay, so back to Austin and Lucas.

Let's say this thing comes back. Is there anything they could do to protect themselves from it or do something about it? Oh, absolutely, absolutely. There's dark beings and there's light beings. And over time, you know, as I did become a Christian, as I did start to understand the spirit realm from the biblical perspective, then I realized that when you are aligned with the light, you have to be walking in the light in order for the darkness to not be able to have any ability to get to you. And I see this all the time as a pastor.

I'll see people's lives spinning out of control and the evidence of the demonic in their lives. And I'll say, hey, look, what's going on personally with the family, with the marriage, what's going on with addiction? You know, that getting into the root of what's going on, and nine times out of ten, there's a problem there. and it's because they've opened up the door spiritually for these beings to come in and be uh, uh, uh, spiritual leeches off of them, off of their spirit, off of their soul. So it's more of a correction of a lifestyle correction. Well, and also just claiming authority too. I mean, as a, from a Christian perspective, uh, you know, we have, we have authority over these beings.

And a lot of times we don't realize that. Um, but it's a delegated authority, you know, because of what, what Christ accomplished on the cross, you know, yes, we receive forgiveness of sins. That's the pastoral statement that we make to everyone. But in reality, in the spiritual realm, what he accomplished on the cross was he defeated the powers of darkness. And so any time when you have a person who's walking in that path, in that pathway to follow him, you have authority to rid demons from people. And I've had the opportunity and the blessing to be able to help people be free from these things countless times, many times.

Had men as well. And like I said, that has put a tariff. on our family in the past because of that. But we keep moving forward. And what I've seen with the Hatman, sometimes I'll get a call. And I don't do a lot of this just because I could easily get overwhelmed by it. But when someone sends me an email and they say things like, I'm having suicidal thoughts and I keep seeing this thing,

or I need some help because my nephew keeps seeing this thing, and I caught him with a knife one night, and he said he thinks he's supposed to kill his sister. Like, that's a big deal. Like, people's lives are at stake in this point. And so that's when I will call them like, look, you're dealing with a demon, and you've got to get this out of your house now. And so we'll go through the process, and it's a simple process. You know, I basically start counseling them.

What open doors spiritually do you have in your life right now? and they always will say it's it's either this or that and the other there's all there's all kinds of open doors you can have to these beings and as soon as they close those doors and tell it to leave they no longer have any problem the most dangerous times i've seen is when people are into the occult um and this is my opinion and you'll have to agree and that's totally okay um but when they're into the occult or they're in they're into mysticism and they just accept these beings um but it's just a bad thing it's the bad thing Like a summoning type of thing. Summoning. And because to people like that, they will absolutely display themselves as being guides or people come to give you special revelation or information from the spirit realm or whatnot.

And they're being deceptive. Because the end goal is not to benefit you. The end goal is to benefit them. And that's what they want. Okay, we have to take a quick break, but we will be right. back. All right. So that was a lot. That was definitely a lot. And a lot, a lot heavier than I thought it was going to be. A lot more everything than I thought it was going to be. And I'm sure

some of you are thinking, hey, Jack, I thought you said that you were going to be taking a journalistic approach to the paranormal. I thought this was going to be a more grounded podcast. Who is this guy talking about ranks of demons? That's true. I did say that. And for the most part, the podcast will be like that. But while interviewing Tim, I couldn't help but imagine poor Lucas and Austin's face when I play this interview back to them, which is exactly what I did. Immediately after doing the interview, I got on the phone with them. And this is the conversation we had after. All right.

What'd you guys think? Yeah, that was definitely interesting. I did not think he was going to be a pastor. I didn't either, yeah. It was definitely, I don't know why, but I thought he might be a little more odd, and he sounded not too odd. I think the one thing that really stuck out to me

was I did not like the fact that I was the first for something. I didn't like the fact that I was the first to see something. That's not good. He seemed pretty freaked out about the top. Yeah, I didn't expect that. That really had me weird when he's like, oh, I've never seen this before. Like, we might have something going on here. Yeah.

And for Austin and me, like, I don't think we're not really coming from this from like a Christian perspective or anything too. So I think a lot of the, a lot of that stuff is. We didn't grow up in like a religious household whatsoever, but I don't know if maybe that plays into this. If that's like maybe part of that not having that spirituality, I don't know. I mean, this is just what this one guy thinks, you know? Yeah. It doesn't mean it's, but what is, what do you guys think about the, the turmoil aspect of what he said? I mean, we don't even know if this is what you saw.

Yeah. And for like the turmoil aspect, I have to be honest, like, there was nothing going on that was chaotic, disruptive or anything at the time. Like, everything was going really smoothly. I feel like I was doing as, doing as best as I have in an adult life. Like, I feel like, yeah, everything was normal. Not gay. Yeah, at least for me, like, growing up as a kid, like, had a very nice childhood, very normal, you know, nice, cool parents.

Maybe, like, I was a really stressed out kid. I seemed to have, like, a lot of anxiety when I was younger. So I don't know if maybe that plays into it a bit. But nothing, no, I wasn't on drugs when I was like, you know, eight or whatever there, having these experiences. Yeah. I don't know, Lucas with you, if maybe there's any aspect. of being in the military and things like that where there's any crazy shit going on or knows you guys are the most boring guys in the world aside from this dream it's so funny

we we had yeah at that time too everything was just smoother like he was saying too about like life paths and you know what direction you're going and like I feel like at that point too I had I I feel like we both had everything kind of put together there's no explanation of what was why this was happening to you too no that's a bit of the alarming part too and they can about the first time. Like, I don't, that's the, there's no explanation. And, uh, yeah. I feel like I have to like assess my life now and see like, what, what track I'm on.

Cause now I'm thinking like, well, shit. Like, am I, am I messing up somewhere? I don't know. I mean, after hearing that and I think Lucas, you were the one that originally started diving into the, the Hatman stuff. Like, do you think even you, that's what you saw? I think based on like everything that I've read, it, does sound like it. The only big difference is like what he said was differing too, but from all the stories I've heard, it's about sleep paralysis.

And so I hadn't, I've never had sleep paralysis. I never experienced that. But I'd say by the look of it, it was, it was definitely similar. But I mean, maybe it could, according to the past, or maybe it's other other demons. I don't know. And I don't, yeah, I mean, and you guys weren't, it wasn't sleep paralysis because Austin, I think you eventually did have sleep paralysis for the first time, like much later on, right? just recently here in the last little bit. So yeah, it was nothing to do with that. Do you think it's a case closed situation? I think it's whatever it is, it might be something that attaches to Lucas more this time. I almost feel like I've passed it on.

Lucas is making a face. I feel like it's almost been passed on, but nothing since then. And I think Lucas experienced the majority since then. I do feel a little bit like it's a past thing. I don't have a reason to think that it's continuing. I mean, I kind of hope it doesn't, but I haven't seen anything since those two or three instances.

So I think that since it's been like several years now, I don't think, I don't expect to see anything again. And have you guys experienced anything else paranormal outside of these two things? Not that I can think of. Just like when I was a kid, they told me I had to be exercise. Oh, yeah. But that was, I don't remember that. I was just told this by my parents.

Like literally or? Yeah, like literally. Yeah. I was at like a high needs daycare as a kid, as a child, like a baby. And I guess I was like too much for them. I was like tearing down curtains and things like that. And one of the helpers there like talked to my mom and said like, this child needs to be exercise.

Like there's something seriously wrong. them. And so what they ended up having to do with me was tie my stroller to a tree outside of the daycare because that's the only place where I would be quiet. It sounds like you were just getting abused. It sounds like you're getting abused. That sounds like abuse. That does not sound like an exorcism Austin. That's the only other time. It's like child abuse. We just realized that you were

They're abused. Yeah, hold on. I don't know why they switched daycares. Yeah, they still want to deal with these. They tied me to a chair. Somehow my parents were okay with this. I don't know. I might need to talk to them again.

Wait. So they would tie you to a tree? Yeah, they'd ride you to a tree outside. I might need to talk to my mom about this again. Did they like... The only place I would stay quiet, I guess. But that's not an exorcism. That's just tying you to a tree.

They never exercised me. But they... They wanted me to be exercised. They told me I should be. They put your stroller like next to a tree. Yeah. I think it's just because you're a bad kid too. You're a bad baby.

From then on, I was great. I don't know. I was told I was a very polite kid. I don't know. That is really funny. But of other like ghosts or like spiritual, paranormal things, I don't think we have had much else. Not for me at least.

I know our mom has experienced a few things before. You should ask her about it. Yeah. I'm not thinking with these other Hatman stories, if it's maybe related, because a lot of of these people seem to be seeing this in real life. And I think she had a bit of a harder time growing up, but her dad wasn't around and kind of raised by her mom. And so I wonder if, you know, that could be part of the Hatman story, too.

What strikes me about your story is like who you guys are. I think if anybody else was telling me these stories, I might be a little suspicious, but I could just tell in talking to you that you're not the type of people that would make this up. And like quite the opposite. Like even your reaction to Tim back there when he was talking about, yeah, you're straying from the path and like doing bad things. There's a reason for it.

And you guys are just like, oh, no, we're on the path. Never really did anything wrong. I think we're pretty good kids for the most part. And like we had a fairly normal upbringing. I think probably better than most. And so, and yeah, I guess just like I'm not very spiritual and like usually pretty skeptical about things in general. Like, you know, when people, even just kind of religion in general, like I'm, I guess

maybe a bit of a, you know, it's not something for me. It's fine for other people. But the fact that this has happened to me is like kind of goes against most of kind of what I look to and, you know, think about like, I just. try to look at things very scientifically and this does not fall into that so it's kind of tough to to have that contrast and deal with that almost what do you make of this if that's how you normally think i think for like a while i just like up until lucas telling me about his dreams i would just think like these are these are bad dreams and like you grew i grew up with having these types of dreams

so it wasn't like something new or that's scary just like something i had to deal with. But as soon as Lucas spoke about it, then that's where I was like, okay, this is freaky. And I think maybe that's why we didn't talk about it that much afterwards was because it doesn't really fit into how I think about the things or think about things or how I think about the world. It's just like kind of goes against that. So to put too much thought towards it, it's like, oh, I almost don't want to.

Yeah. And to have the shared experience, too, is pretty different. Like for the solo experiences I've had to, I feel like it's a bit, like if I'm trying to think of it scientifically. It feels like a momentary, like, lapse of mental health. Like, it just, like, it's something that could be written off. But I feel like with having something shared too with that, it feels like it can't, it can't be something that we can really write off as something scientific. I feel like even though I've had these experiences, I still want to feel skeptical. And so like he's he knows way more, but I feel like I just naturally want to to like

not know it. Or I feel like it's just like, oh, right off like something else. But and now that that has happened to me, I feel like I just can't. But I think, Jack, that's like similar to like your story before where it's like I just don't want to deal with this right now. Like I too many other things to think about. And like it's almost easier to just try to forget about it. Lucas, I think your reaction is a really interesting one. Even though you've seen. a significantly more extreme version of the Hatman more times than the guy who runs Hatmanproject.com or whatever the URL is, you're still sitting there listening to this interview like, oh, listen to this quack.

And he was so nice, too, like, he was so helpful. No, but you've seen, but no, I mean, you know, he's not a, I don't think that he's a quack. But I want to think. Yeah, but it's a funny human instinct to do that where you're like immediately judging him and trying to write it off. And you probably do that to yourself too. Oh, definitely, yeah. Because I even still feel like skeptic over things that have happened to me.

And so I don't blame people for being ultra-sceptical, but maybe something will happen that will change your mind too. I don't know if anything can really change your mind until something happens to you. Yeah, I agree. And I feel like it's almost frustrating that it's happened to me because there's no reason for somebody to believe it, but it happened. And like, I guess unless you know me, you won't be able to really get a sense of what I'm like.

But it's like frustrating to me that this has happened. It's not something that I wanted to happen to me. I'm trying to think of how we should wrap this one up. I don't even know how, is this a case closed situation or is this a to be continued situation? I think that's the big concern. I'm feeling pretty case closed here. But I, I mean, I didn't expect to see that one time or two times. times anyway. So I mean, maybe

it's not case closed. I hope it is. And I've had times where it was like years in between these dreams and like there's always that, you know, scenario where something could happen again. Since it's been so long for me, at the moment too, I feel like,

yeah, it's kind of past. This part is done. But we'll update you if there's anything new. Absolutely, yeah. I think that's a great way to end it. Thank you guys so much. Good luck out there. Stay safe.

Yeah, thank you. It's been great going on this. So I really appreciate you and you telling our story. Fun and the help, too. Appreciate it. All right. Thank you to Austin and Lucas for telling us that story. Honestly, one of my favorite ones in this entire season.

Thank you so much. I was about to say that this brings us to the end of the Man of the Hat. That is until something just came up about a minute ago. I don't know how many of you noticed this, but there was a brief moment in that interview where I think Austin said something about maybe his aunt and mom having experiences as a child similar when they're kind of speculating as like

why this happened to them. I didn't think too much of it. I think I said to them, oh yeah, why you ask him about it? But I really wasn't thinking too much of it. Anyway, he just texted me a file of a report. that I just listened to. And I'm going to play you out with a snippet of it.

I think that you'll enjoy hearing. That does bring us to the end of this episode. I don't know if we're going to do a follow-up one day. For now, this brings us to the end of the Hatman Part 2. If you like this story, share it with your friends. I'll play you out with this clip. and thank you for listening to Otherworld. I'm your host, Jack Wagner.

Hello, Mother. Hi, Auntie. And Uncle Nigel, Auntie Shalager. So, is this the podcast with that guy you guys were excited about? Yeah, so me and Lucas did our individual parts. And then he spoke with a quote-unquote expert on like this similar type of thing that we've seen and like experienced and then we just he just got our reaction from it and then he was like asking about like anything else paranormal that we've experienced um and i mentioned that you might

have experienced um like a similar type thing like as i remember something about you telling me before um like when you were falling asleep there was something that you guys saw like in your doorway or something like that is that true what What did this thing look like? To me, it was like in a room that we, we called it the room by itself because nobody wanted to sleep there. Because you had to sleep by yourself in that room. And, but that was why I didn't want to sleep there because this, this shadowy figure. To me, it was like a man shape and like a big man and kind of just standing there.

And, and yeah. And he was just looking. He was just stood there. He wasn't even looking really, but I felt him looking. But you couldn't see anything, except for this sort of figure. And I would just close my eyes and then think, oh, I wish I had a magic book. And if I had a magic book, I would make that go away. Wow.

That's creepy. And it was funny because I think I actually saw him first. I don't say anything. And then Cindy slept there the next night. And then in the morning she said, did you see the man in the doorway? And I go, yeah, I did. And then I was saying, yeah, he just was kind of standing in the doorway there. And then we both were describing exactly the same thing.

All right. Otherworld's executive produced and hosted by myself, Jack Wagner. Our theme song is by Kroberman. Music and soundtrack by Chrome Sparks, Traer Tryon, North Americans, and Jekuzi Boys. Editing by Theo Schaefer. Our artwork is by Coltysack Studios. Once again, this is an independent show, so please show us your support by subscribing and leaving a five-star review and share with your friends. It's really helping. So thanks for that.

And thank you for listening to Otherworld. I'm your host, Jack Wagner.