Otherworld - Episode 41: Eilish Poe Pt. 4

Episode Date: July 31, 2023

Eilish Poe reveals what John was doing in the basement while he was hiding in it for over 24 hours and learning about his history of violence against women. We also finally discuss what happened in Spain and some new information that we discovered this week. The next part of the finale, episode 42, is out now. To see photos related to this episode, click here Subscribe to Otherworld on Patreon for exclusive content and bonus interviews Check out our Merch Follow us on: Instagram, TikTok, Twitter If you have experienced something paranormal or unexplained, email us your full story at [e-mail] To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to Otherworld. I'm your host, Jack Wagner. This episode is part of a series we're doing. If you're just tuning in for the first time, you should go back and start from the beginning. Also, this episode contains graphic descriptions of violence and other things that might be difficult for certain listeners. This is the finale of the Ilish Poe series, and I decided to split it into two episodes featuring different themes. The first covers the lingering questions surrounding the attack. The other one covers the paranormal things that Eilish has been experiencing since touching death

and coming back to life, literally and figuratively. This episode is about the why. I think part of the reason stories like this end up usually focusing around the person who committed the crime instead of the victim is that people can't help but ask the question, why? When something happens that's so objectively wrong and horrible, I think it's natural to want to seek out some kind of explanation or reasoning

behind it, because it's easier to think that there must have been something fatally wrong in the system along the way that caused it than to think that people are capable of doing such selfish, hateful, and senseless destruction. But in reality, there's rarely a valid reason behind anything like this. For Eilish, I know that the why does not matter because nothing could excuse or rationalize doing this to a person. Nothing she could have done, no matter what it was, could have given him a reason to do this to her.

But at the same time, this was so out of nowhere from a person who she was on the verge of completely forgetting about, somebody that she dated for just a very, very short amount of time, that I know that she was left seeking an explanation herself. She ended up pouring over all of the police evidence from the case, the 81 page police report, all of the body cam, all of the photos.

I think she's been doing this just to try to understand. And she's still looking for answers to some of the missing pieces. And that's what we're going to be covering in this episode today. Eilish's search for explanation and where that's led her. This is episode 41, Elish Poe Part 4, and you're listening to Otherworld. Hello?

Is this Bobby? Yes, it is. At its core, the science, you can't argue. It's not only. I'm worried about all the science. Up in the sky. It's almost frustrating that it's happening. I'm going to die.

It's limbs were just like wrong. Everybody moves back into the light, even if it takes them a minute. I found out that he had been in my basement the next day. So November 5th, November 5th was like literally the longest day of my life. The police would come in. They dropped this bomb on me of like, hey, did you know that he was in your basement? Like as if I would know that. And then they'd leave and then they'd come back in and they'd be like,

so we just talked to his mom. She's so distraught. And then like leave and then come back and be like, so we've talked to this person, this person, this person. If they call you, you need to let us know. And then they'd leave and then they'd come back. And okay, we've finally found like where he is.

Things like that. So that was like the most chaotic day of my life. It felt like it was never ending. But it was one of the first things that they told me was that they could say with certainty that he was in my basement. They found like the water bottles, granola bars, things like that. He'd used the pillows and blankets and sleeping bag kind of stuff that was already in there.

But while he was down there, he was like reading and looking at some really specific content. And the police ended up giving me this information like three weeks to a month later. Because I asked them to everything that I wanted to know everything that I possibly could. It definitely felt like in some ways they were sheltering me from the details. But I'm like, no, this happened to me in my house. Like I want to know everything. And they would like go to my dad and tell him a detail first. And I'd be like, I'm not a child.

Please tell me first, not my dad. And it definitely felt like they were trying to. protect me because some of it is super super fucked up he'd been in our house for 26 hours when he was in the basement he was watching scenes and movies like only clips on youtube not the full movie and it would be one it was all stuff that we'd watched together two they were just really specific scenes in movies. So, like, one of them was Kill Bill, and it was that scene where the bride is, like, fighting, like, 80 people with a sword and things like that. It's super gory. It's super violent. And I felt like that's relevant because just obviously,

given what he was about to do, it's really disturbing. Two, Parasite, the movie Parasite, you know, the guy is living in the basement and staying in this basement secretly of this unknowing family that he's down there. The specific scene that he was watching over and over and over again was that part where, like, he's the guy's in the basement, but you can, like, see his eyes just above the floor. Even right the second, like, gives me fucking chills. It's just so disturbing. Like, he knew how creepy that was. He was actively looking at this scene.

Like, I have to think that when he was down there, if he thought, hey, this reminds me of that one movie. because it's just, it's so specific. It's too specific to be a coincidence. And then the third one, which when the police, like, told me this part, I, like, started crying just even right now talking about it. I'm, like, about to cry because it just kind of freaked me out. It freaked me out so much.

because the guy that I was talking to, the police officer, he hadn't seen this movie. And it was midsummer. And he watched this scene eight times, eight times, like back to back to back. Was in midsummer when the elderly people like season out and they jump off of a cliff and die. which, you know, knowing what we know that he jumped 150 feet to his death off of a cliff is so, so, so disturbing. And when they told me midsummer before I even won, that was the first time, like, he and I ever hung out outside of our job was to go see that movie with like a group of coworkers. Two, they didn't even have to tell me which scene it was for me to know what it was going to be. When I clicked on that link, it was that exact scene.

Just he watched it eight times. It just is so eerie to think that he was watching that right before. It just is so disturbing. Jesus. It really changes it, doesn't it? It was so premeditated. Yeah, but like almost like, yeah, premeditated, but also like scripted. Like, I think he was like trying to like.

Yes. Like reenacting things he saw in movies. Yes. And I told you that he was like really into movies. And I told you that the way he, he kind of just like romanticized weird things and that he would get mad at me if I didn't say things. the way he wanted me to or like respond in a way that he wanted me to because I feel like he was you know planning things to say to me and then I wouldn't respond how he thought I would like in his head like you're going off script yeah I do think that he was following these movies

and things like that it's an obsession it was it was almost like it was scripted It is so disturbing. I just... And then another thing is that he was reading a book called... One of them was called Best Served Cold by Joe Abercrombie. The other one, though, man, what was it called? Like that he was actively reading in the basement. Yep.

The blade itself. Oh, no, I have that book and I still haven't read it. Well, maybe you won't. Thanks, I know, like, it's definitely like something of war-related. One of those books has like a big plot point of revenge and stuff like that. And it's just really creepy. And yeah, I don't know if romanticize is the right word or if it's just obsessed, scripted, whatever it is. It definitely, that just encapsulates how he was in general.

Like, I feel like the reason he handled rejection, not just from me, but like from anyone, was so poor is because he'd like rehearsed things to go a different way in his head. I don't want to speculate and like, I don't know, I feel like this is probably getting into territory that I don't know. I wouldn't want to offend you even like thinking. You won't. Part of me is can't help but be curious. Like, when did this start? Like, how did he become this way? you know?

That's a great question, and it is one that a lot of people ask. Like, did he have a traumatic childhood? I don't think so. He lived in the same area his whole life. He had a lot of really good friends. I did meet his parents. They were super, super nice. His dad was like a really big goofball, super sweet.

He had two brothers. they talked regularly, but also, I don't think that every psychotic person has a traumatic childhood. And I also don't think it's an excuse because a lot of people have things that happen in their childhood that are really traumatic. and most of those people, I hope, don't become psychopaths and don't do these awful crazy things. Like, I'm a teacher. I see kids go through shit all the time. And like they, it's interesting how each person handles it differently. But it's like, I don't think that it always kind of bothers me that people are, that's like, he must have had something.

in his childhood go wrong for him to be this way. I don't think that's the root of it personally. I don't. I know, everybody makes their decisions. Yeah, I don't know what the root of it. You had through something traumatic just two years ago. Are you going to go become a killer? No, that would be difficult because I am disabled in my hands.

Oh, yes. But, like, they're so weird. Like, this one, the thumb doesn't work. And this one, like, is skeletal. It's crazy. But, yeah, no, I don't think, yeah, it bothers me a little bit that people just think, like, oh, it must, there must have been something. Megan's mom was a detective for years. She'd met him on multiplications.

Like, she didn't think there was anything wrong with him. Lots of people have come forward saying they did not suspect anything was wrong. He literally was like texting his friends from my basement. And they did not suspect anything weird. I mean, why would you? If your friend is just like texting you about a YouTube video they watched or a Reddit something, you know, like they're not going to think anything's, you're not going to think they're sitting in somebody's basement preparing to let kill them. Like you're not thinking that. I know I'm not thinking that.

but I don't know what caused him to snap. I really don't because he was like talking to other women on this like dating app after he and I had broken up like right before it happened. Like the day before it happened. He was still talking to a girl and told her that, hey, I can't do this. I'm still in love with my ex. Shit like that. He was planning to go look at apartments in Denver. Like he had things coming up.

I don't know what caused him to snap. I don't know if it was seeing me that one day when I dropped off the stuff at his house. Because it was like a week later. I have no idea. And it is really frustrating that I won't know ever. There were like, he had a journal. He had ripped several pages out of it. so the police like couldn't find what those said i really wish they knew what they said

that's why i read through the entire like 81 page police document just so if there was anything that i could find in there to give me some closure or find any reason why he might have done it i just i don't know i don't know if it was like a just he couldn't handle rejection he just got so fed up with it and i just got like the brunt and i just got like the brunt and i just got like the brunt and of it, but nothing is excusable, obviously. When everything happened, I was reached out by what felt like every single person I'd ever met in my entire life, which is amazing.

Like, I was getting so many messages a day. I mean, I'm willing to say, like, I was getting hundreds a day. There were people that I was expecting to hear back from, from or to hear at all from that I like never did. There were several of his friends that I never, that I met, that I never got a single message from. I, like, I know you and I have talked separately about this, about like his family doesn't, I mean, I would have expected to hear something from them in the last two and a half years,

almost three years, I haven't heard anything from them, except for like a couple of his aunts. But I haven't heard anything from his parents, his brothers. I have been like, ignored isn't the right word because to be ignored, I would have had to reach out. And I don't have like the means to reach out. I don't have any of his family on Facebook. The only family that has reached out to me have like said some unkind isn't the right word just like unnecessary seems more accurate unnecessary things like on my Facebook such as like on my life day which is like the anniversary of me surviving um making comments about him it's like this isn't a day that I'm celebrating him this isn't a day where I'm talking about him

I'm talking about me, there was no reason for her to, like, actively search me on Facebook on that day and comment on my video. That was unfortunately public that I changed. I mean, I've had 10 surgeries. No offers, like, of even, like, and I'm sorry. I mean, nothing. And to me, like, I get that they're hurting, but that just is also hurtful to me. And it's extremely dehumanizing to feel like.

there's this entire population of people that know what he did and like actively ignore the isish part i know that his family participates in like a suicide prevention walk thing like a walk-a-thon type style thing i think um where they raise money for those foundations and like that in itself is admirable. There's a massive difference between suicide and murder suicide. They should be doing a walk to end domestic violence, a walk to end interpersonal violence, like a walk to end violence against women. I think that it's completely ignorant of what he did to me. And I was told that one of his family members went on, I think just like a local news station. who was at one of those walk to end suicide events.

And she went on air talking about just like how great he was and how amazing he was and that they were doing this like for him and his memory and things like that. Which like, yeah, it's completely unethical to, to. And just like to do all. of these events and then like to not even ever reach out to me it's like almost unbelievable. It's extremely strange to me that they just completely ignore the eyelish half of what he did. They just completely ignore it to like go on to a news channel and I'm sure it was just like a local channel and preach about what an amazing person he is, knowing, like, full well what he did at the end

that caused him to commit suicide is disturbing. And I know that they're hurting. And I'm not downplaying that at all. Like, I know exactly what it is like to lose somebody who takes their own life. But, like, have they thought about how my parents felt? Probably not. Okay, we have to take a quick break, but we will be right back. Yeah, no, I, yeah, it bothers me a little bit that people just think, like, oh, it must, there must have been something in his childhood. Like, no, people, but really, like.

Also, it's not your job to care. No, it's not my job to care. I don't think he had any respect for women in terms. general. We talked about this the other day, but I don't think we were recording about like his ex-girlfriends. Let me write it down. When do you loop back to Spain? Does that, I was going to ask you that. Another good question. So, um, when he was like, I want to say the eighth, that's my sister's birthday. So that's kind of why it's like sticking out to me. But I was like talking to my friend Will, which is his friend Will on FaceTime.

And I was like FaceTiming people in the hospital pretty much all the time. I didn't have literally anything else to do. He was like, I want to tell you about one of his ex-girlfriends. And her name is B. And I was like, is this the one he did in Spain? And he was like, no, it's actually the one he dated in high school. And I was like, okay, like, I've heard a little bit about like, All I know is that he had a girlfriend in high school.

Again, he wouldn't talk about it with me at all, like, at all. Just that he had a girlfriend in high school. I knew that he had this friend who, like, they, or old French, but they, like, he hated each other. And there was just, like, he wouldn't talk to me about it. And I came to stay with Will. And John was just, like, pissed that they would even, like, let him, like, and it just bugged me.

Like, why won't you tell me what this guy does? did to you like it's obviously bad so when i was facetiming will after everything had happened he was like to remember i was like yes i mean i know of him the reason like john hated is because when they were in high school john like beat up the girl that he was dating he like punched her like many times and they're like in high school so i she like had like had told and took what she said seriously and was like, I'm not going to be friends with somebody who

beats up girls, like beats up their girlfriends. And then when I told Will, I was like, why would you never tell me that? Why would you not think that that was important for me to know as his current girlfriend? He was like, because I never thought anything like that would ever happen again. I was so mad. It must be a lot of guilt.

Yeah, I mean, he's, we've talked about it a lot. I don't hold like a lot of resentment towards him, but I think he does for the whole situation of like, yeah, I should have told her that. And so with Spain, like, uh, essentially same thing. Like Will said that, like how John explained it was she like ended it very quickly. And then as soon as like she ended it, he was like,

I have nothing left here in Spain. I have like a same like super similar. Like I need to leave. There's nothing here for me. Blah, blah, blah. Like started looking for jobs in another country. Like it was that big of a deal to him. So but I think it was more of like maybe fear of getting in trouble.

Like that's what I think now. So it's just like he did have a pattern of hurting women. that I just wasn't aware of until after everything had happened. And even then, even though his friends knew, they still told the police he would never hurt a woman. He, not Will. Will was very honest with the police. And I did read that in the police report. And I thanked him for it.

Because all his other friends were like, he's a pacifist. He wouldn't hurt anyone. He doesn't even want to like go hunting because he could never kill an animal. So he did. Here's the proof. Like, this isn't an if, this happened. So this was obviously a major revelation to find out that John had been violent to his girlfriend in high school. And that there was this guy out there who had been warning people about him.

Also, the fact that nobody seemed to know what happened in Spain. John went over there for a teaching job that he was very excited about and then he abruptly quit and moved back home. His friends only knew that a girl had broken up with him and he was very distraught about it, but they didn't know anything else and neither did Ilish. He refused to talk about it. And that's who I was going to loop back to in this episode.

That lingering question because it's a strange mystery. But I was actually able to find and speak to some of the people that knew him in Spain. including this mysterious girl that he apparently dated while he was over there. And this all happened this week, and it's been quite a whirlwind. That's part of the reason I'm breaking this into two episodes. They did not want to appear on the podcast, which is very understandable, especially when you hear what I'm about to say,

but I am going to be discussing some of the things that they told me. First of all, none of the people in Spain knew about what John did, or that he had even died. as far as they knew, he had just moved home abruptly and was living his life in the United States. The way that these people found out about it was by listening to this podcast. That mysterious girl that we've been wondering about had no idea either. And it turns out, by the way, that they didn't even really date. At least she didn't think they did.

We're going to get into that very shortly. But I ended up speaking to several people in the teaching program that he was in and eventually set up a call between Eilish and that mysterious girl from Spain so that they could talk and just meet each other for the first time. Once again, these people did not want to appear on the podcast and they asked to remain anonymous, so I'm going to be bleeping names. Okay, so how was it? Tell me everything. How are you? I'm doing pretty well overall, but yeah, today's been a little weird, but yeah, the call,

I mean, it was really good. I felt like a knowner for a while, like talking to her. I'm sure. It felt pretty natural. It just was bizarre. Just what, like, her side and things like that. So, I mean, it was, it was really great. She, like, didn't have any, like, inklings or anything like that during their relationship. There was just, like, so many things that felt so the same.

Like, his ego was in the way and, like, he felt like he owned everything, like, everywhere he went. Stuff like that. And she said that, like, he just wanted to be more serious. And she didn't, essentially. And then, but that's why, like, they broke up in, like, late November of 2019. And by December 2019, he was, like, leaving. Will told me that he, when they broke up, he said, like, he had to leave Spain. He had to leave.

I didn't realize he left, like, that early, I don't think. because he told me he left because of the pandemic, which, like, is believable. But then she said, like, no way. It was, like, way before. Like, that was even a thing. I was like, wow. So, like, this girl he was kind of seeing, like,

breaks up with him, and then he abruptly quits his job and flees the country, basically. Seeing is loose. She said that, like, he basically asked her to be exclusive and to be boyfriend and girlfriend, like right before she went on a girl's trip, And she was just like, no. And, yeah, I know.

So she was like, even hearing you say, like, or that his friend say, like, oh, he had a girlfriend in Spain. She's like, I don't even call it that. She was like, even to hear that for me is cringy. I was like, holy crap. Like, sorry if I were pretty. I was like his girlfriend or ex-girlfriend. And she was like, oh, no, no, no. I was like, but I get that.

Like, we barely dated. So I, like, totally understand. that. And, but I mean, she was kind of in the same place I was where she did not want something serious. I mean, she'd like just move to this brand new country. She didn't want anything serious. And he really did. And she said that like when they broke it off, like he was mad and like angry. And she said that she was surprised that he was angry rather than just like sad. And then that they had like another meetup after like several weeks later and he basically told her like which we both like laughed at this there were several things that we just were both like

cracking up at like how how dramatic how dramatic um where he was like I'm 25 years or I'm about to turn 25 like I don't have time for this like I'm getting too old for this and we were just she was like, I was already 25 at this point. Like I didn't see why that had anything to do with like the severity of him needing a relationship. But what was, what was particularly interesting and what I know you'd find interesting, he had called her friend,

like one of her best friends. And like they had had conversations on the phone and like they were texting and stuff within a week of what was about to happen to me. What were they talking about? Yeah. They talked about like, oh, first of all, also, something that really bothered me, and to preface what I'm about to say, is that he was telling the people in Spain, including that he and I had dated prior to him leaving for Spain,

which was absolutely not true. Did you even know him then, like, or talk to him at all, like outside of a coworker? No, I mean, absolutely not. Like, I was in a three-year-long relationship when he and I worked together. Like, we'd only hung out in groups. We'd only been friends. Like, but he was telling people there was a girl back in Colorado, and she knew me by name. Yeah, because he had been telling people that, yeah.

So that just gave me, like. That's, it gave me hebi-jeebies that he was like a little obsessed with. me before even dating me, like a year before. Like, I did not even know any of that. It freaked me out. Yeah, this was, like, possibly sent into motion, like, long, long before you ever thought it was. And that he had told them, he and I, like, lived together, that we were super, super serious, that we had, like, gotten back together. Like, all this stuff. I was, like, not any of that was true. I was, like, not any of that is true. And I felt pissed. I was so pissed.

Like finding that he's just like been, he had just, I mean, days before he tried to kill me was telling somebody like that we'd broken up because we were both depressed from the pandemic and that both of our jobs were, or that we were both unhappy in both of our jobs. And I just started like cackling and like what? And I was just like, I wasn't even working. Like I was on summer break. like how can I be unhappy in my job? I'm not even working. Like yeah, the pandemic affected my job before he and I started dating. Like we, I was not even working. Like that is just lie. Number one. Like so many lies. But so he actually texted her like that he and I broke up and he had to like

GTFO. And like, she said, when she had heard me talk about how he needed to like get the fuck out of Spain that that was like creepy because he basically said the exact same thing about me like oh ilish and i broke up i need to get the fuck out and move to denver or something like it was just like a creepy parallel and that he did text her on november 1st and um just was like well good luck in Spain, like things like that. A little peace sign. I don't know.

I was like, that's really, really eerie because, like, that was the day I think that he got, like, a rental car to, like, stock me and stuff. Like, he already had plans in place. I mean, it was definitely, like, eye-opening some of this stuff. This is blowing my mind. I mean, I have so many thoughts, but it's funny. We, like, thought that we, like, thought that we. are going to find or like uncover this mystery and talking to the people from Spain like this big thing that happened because it definitely sounded like something happened but it turns out like

this person barely remembers him and didn't even know he was dead and I think if this didn't happen none of this happened I don't think you would remember him either it would just be this like brief moment of your life these couple months where you dated a guy that didn't work out I don't it would be like a a distant memory at best you know right and that's kind of what she said She was like, oh, like he texted me on November 1st, 2020. It was like about a year later after they'd broken up or something like that. And she didn't respond. He had texted her twice.

She didn't respond to either. And that she just like never thought about him really again. Like she didn't think about it. Like that's exactly it. Like a blip. Like she didn't, she wasn't thinking about him at all. And then like I think. the girl had like sent him a text in like December or something 2020 and obviously like he was

dead at that point so like didn't get a response but um that they were just like oh well he's probably just done with the Spain group because of like he doesn't want anything to do like with that part and they were just kind of like okay and like never Googled him never like really thought about it until like, and listens is like a reoccurring listener of other world. And she said that she just was like, I don't know, like maybe on the off chance, what if I know this person? And she's not even thinking that. It's like, John. And she knows the guy's name is John. And she's not even like, like, when I was telling me this, I was like, oh, she heard that it was a guy named John in Spain. and she just knew, and she was like, no.

She was like, no. She heard it was a guy in Spain, and that his, and like that did during this time, and that his name was John, and she... Like, he wasn't even significant enough to come to mind? No. And then she Googled my name, because obviously it's the episode title,

Googles my name, and the first thing that pops up, when you Google my name, it's not my picture. It's his picture. And she was like, holy fucking shit. Like she told her on Wednesday this past Wednesday. And she just said she has not been able to stop thinking about it, like, since then.

So, yeah, it was. I did, like, go ahead and tell her about, like, how he had, like, hurt another woman from his past and stuff. And she was just, like, I think that was kind of hard for her to process. Um, because it's like, I mean, my probably my mindset, if that were me, if I were like in her shoes would be like, why did this like, I mean, very fortunately not happen to her. Yeah, she was very, very sweet, very funny. It was, this like insane thing that we were talking about was like a mutual person. but at the same time, this was bizarre. I mean, she said, like,

that she's open to, like, talking with me more in the future and, like, like, any of the people in Spain that, like, know about me now. She said, like, we're all just, like, our heart goes out to you, and we just, ever since we found out, it's, like, all we can all think about.

And she says, like, she keeps, like, she's worried that he's getting, to like appear in her dreams now, but she has to remind herself like he's been dead for years and he hasn't. So like that kind of thing. But yeah, it was, it was great. It was nice to just like know who she is. I mean, I told her. I was like, I literally knew nothing about you. Like, name anything. All right. Thank you so much to everyone from Spain that spoke to me for this episode. That was a very wild, wild situation. I could not imagine finding out something like that while listening to a podcast. And not only that, then having to talk to the host of the podcast and

Ilish right after without having any time to process. Some of the information that we learned in that call was really interesting to me and changed it a little bit. I mean, in some ways. I think there are certain people who would love to write something like this off as a momentary thing, a heat of the moment, mental health crisis, but all of the evidence has always pointed to it being calmly premeditated and planned out. He rented a car to do this and was even calling people, having casual chats during that time, possibly even while he was in the basement, which is very weird. And probably the most bizarre detail of all, is finding out that he was telling people

that he was dating Eilish long before she even really knew him. And it kind of indicates that this might have been set into motion long before he was even on her radar at all. So that brings us to the end of this episode. The other half of the finale is out now. You can go listen to it. That episode covers the paranormal things that have been happening to Eilish

ever since all of this happened. and getting back to life, literally and figuratively. This has been episode 41, and you've been listening to Otherworld. Otherworld is executive produced and hosted by myself, Jack Wagner. Our theme song is by Coberman. The soundtrack of this episode is by Juice Jackal and North Americans. This episode was edited by myself and engineered by Theo Schaefer. Our artwork is by Coltysk Studios.

Please show us your support by subscribing, leaving a five-star review, and telling your friends about Otherworld. If you want to hear bonus episodes of Otherworld, you can hear a lot of them on our Patreon. We have tons of bonus episodes up there. Become a patron at patreon.com slash Otherworld. Our social media is at Otherworld Pod on Instagram and Twitter. Thank you to the team at Odyssey, J.D. Crowley, Jenna Weiss-Berner, Leah Rees-Denis-Denis-Rawrandy, Eric Donnelly, Matt Casey, Casey Klauser, Moira Kourin, Josephina-F, and Hillary Schuff. Follow and listen to Otherworld now for free on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts.

And finally, if you or somebody you know has experienced something supernatural, paranormal, or unexplained, you could send us your story at stories at otherworldpod.com.