Otherworld - Episode 57: Many Things Pt 4

Episode Date: October 25, 2023

Sarah's Mom, Dad and Brother discuss the events that lead up to a night where the entire saga comes to a head. Series finale on monday. NEW MERCH IS OUT. GET IT HERE WHILE IT LASTS Subscribe to Otherworld on Patreon for exclusive content and bonus interviews Follow us on: Instagram, TikTok, Twitter If you have experienced something paranormal or unexplained, email us your full story at [e-mail] To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey everybody. Before we start this episode, I have a quick announcement. The new Otherworld merch is officially live. It's available at Otherworldpod.com. We have so much amazing stuff. I designed a lot of this myself, along with Thomas Bradley and Colin, aka Coltac Studios. I'm very excited. We have new hoodies, shirts, stickers, three different hats. There's an extra large tote bag that I'm really, really excited about. There's a long-sleeve shirt inspired by the Monroe Institute. There's so much. Just go check it out. And if you want to get your hands on some of this stuff, I recommend jumping on that sooner rather than later because it's in limited supply and this stuff does normally sell out fast. So otherworldpod.com, check it out. And let's get this episode started. We'll be right back after these ads. Welcome to Otherworld. I'm your host, Jack Wagner. This is part four of an ongoing series. If you haven't heard the other episodes, you should go and start at the beginning. You're about to hear the accounts of Sarah's brother, mom,

and dad. I spoke to each of them over the course of this year, and afterwards I thought a lot about how I wanted to present this story. There was a lot of ways to do it, but ultimately I thought it would be best if I just let the audience hear each side of this saga from the people who experienced it, because you rarely get to hear stories like this told in that way. Each time I spoke to somebody new, they would have an additional piece of information that other people forgot or didn't mention. Each of them played a pivotal role. and witnessed their own sections of this very long story. This is the second to last episode in the series.

You're about to hear from Sarah's mom, dad, and brother. They're going to tell you what they witnessed, and then we're going to discuss the events that led up to a night that really this entire thing centers around, a night where everything comes to a head. This is episode 57. The title is Many Things Part 4, and you're listening to Otherworld.

Is this Bobby? At its core, the science, you can't argue. It's not only. I'm worried about all the science. Up in the sky. It's almost frustrating that it's happening. I'm going to die. I'm going to die. It's slim.

We're just like wrong. Everybody moves back into the light, even if it takes them ahead. So I have a different kind of perspective, right? Because it's not my story to tell. I am Sarah's younger brother. So I'm literally telling you, what I know from what was told to me and from kind of that one night, which we'll get into, that I experienced it firsthand, right?

So I had just moved back from New York. So I would have been 22, 23. You know, I was still a young guy going out, partying, having fun. And I wasn't really, you know, taking work or anything too serious. So I enjoyed the fact that I worked at the family company because I got to see my dad and I got to see Sarah every day. I remember first hearing about it through my mom. She was kind of like, yeah, your sister is having some strange things happen at her house.

And, you know, they got a really good deal on this house. So I was excited. It was a beautiful big house. I would get to hang out there on weekends. Yeah, when my mom kind of told me this, I was like, whoa, this is something different. I really didn't have too many paranormal experiences. experiences. I'm a pretty reason-based guy in terms of my thinking. I'm pretty grounded. I'm not too out there. I tend to use ration to kind of figure out what's going on. I'm not too big into spirits or, you know, astral signs or anything like that. So when my mom told me that, I guess I was kind of like, oh, okay, like, it was just another fact. I was a little bit shocked. And then, you know, it was getting worse and worse as we approached Halloween.

My mom was telling me that things were getting progressively worse at the house. And it went kind of like from something that was like a funny, fun experience to, okay, there's something here. And, you know, it's disturbing both your sister and Cameron. So, yeah, me being a skeptic, I was like, well, you know what? Maybe I should go over to their house. Like maybe I should, you know, go pay him a visit, take their mind off everything. Like I said, I like to make people laugh.

I like to have fun. I like to drink. So I was like, you know, let me go hang out with Sarah and Cam. I'll go to their new house. We'll take their mind off it. Like, we'll have some drinks. We'll watch a movie. It's Halloween time.

Like, we'll chill out a little bit. And, you know, maybe this is something that will relax them. Because my mom was saying, like, they were both having. you know, some issues sleeping because they were getting woken up. A lot of stuff to do with like her and Cameron's dreams. Like I remember hearing about one that Sarah was saying that it threatened to kill our other brother. Like she was having visions of our other brother like dying or something. And I remember Cam telling me about a dream where this furry demon thing was chasing him.

and he woke up screaming. He said it was like a weird humanoid, like rabbit type figure that was covered in fur and chasing him in his dream. So that was something else that I remember. So like I said, I was pretty skeptical about the whole situation. I was like, okay, well look, it could be something that they're both kind of confused about. like I wasn't really so worried about it. So I went over. I think, yeah, it was just me, Sarah, and Cam.

So I do remember walking in and there was like this heaviness, right, when you walked in the door. And I knew that this was different, right? Because I had been to their house many times. I think they had like a small housewarming party. I was there when they moved in. I helped them move in. And I didn't feel this kind of like cloudy heaviness, almost like, you know, there's somebody else i know it sounds cliche but almost like there's you know something something

else there and other something else watching you like it wasn't just me sarah and cameron there was like another set of eyes in the house or um yeah you know of course the first thing i do when i walk through the door is like okay so tell me about this ghost you know um let me let me see like what's going on like bring me up to speed kind of thing, which I think my mom actually told me, like, don't talk about the ghost. Just go there and like hang out with them. But of course, you know, I wanted to, I wanted to know more. I think they gave me a walkthrough of the house, like where certain things had happened. I don't know. There was something weird in this one room of their house that they kind of showed me. And I was like,

you know, being young and dumb 22 year old, like, oh, there's nothing in here, like, you know, laughing and joking around, which in retrospect was probably stupid. You know, like I said, I was kind of screwing around. So I was like, well, why don't we try to like talk to this thing? You know, like half joking, but half like, hey, like, let's take this up a notch. I'm not sure where Sarah was at this point, but I kind of looked some stuff up online. I think Cameron was kind of like apprehensive about it. We looked up like a hack way to make like a Ouija board.

and then we looked up like a way to communicate with ghosts. I mean, keep in mind, and this is like very hack. And we created this, I guess, Ouija board on paper where you wrote out different letters and you had, I think, like another piece of paper or like a button or something that it's supposed to move. And then we kind of looked up what you're supposed to say. So it's like if there's somebody in this house, please make your presence known, something like that. And then I remember we read, we were supposed to give it an offering. So we gave it like a piece of bread or something.

Honestly, some of these details are fuzzy. But yeah, I remember we did read that you're supposed to give it an offering. So we did all that. And eventually all three of us start playing with the Ouija board. Not much was really happening. Then I remember we were kind of like ready to to like give up and just go back to doing whatever we were going to do, whether it was watching movie or having some drinks. And I was downstairs in the kitchen with Sarah.

And I remember she was like, look. And we looked up and above her kitchen counter, there are these hanging pendant lights. And I just remember one of them kind of started like twisting around. And then they kind of started like swaying, like almost like a pendulum. Think of like a pendulum. And I think there were three lights and they were kind of like swaying kind of like in unison. And I was like, what the fuck? And I was like thinking, did somebody come down here and like touch these?

Is Sarah playing a game on me? Like did she quickly kind of like brush them and then it's like look, look like playing a practical joke? But then I quickly realized that she was not laughing. Like she was kind of like, oh shit. Like this is this is happening. You know, I try to find like the rational explanation, but in this case, I really couldn't. Like, I think the actual lighting in the room was changing a little bit as the pendants were swinging. Just then, as the pendants are still swinging and we're still trying to get over what the heck is happening,

we hear this very loud, loud music coming from the basement. And it was like some, I don't know, like kids' Halloween monster song. And we yelled like Cameron, are you down there? And then Cameron came down from upstairs. So he clearly wasn't down there. And the music was still playing. And he was like, what's up with the music? I was like, okay, well, there's clearly something here.

But I'm going to go upstairs and confront this thing. Because Cam's like, no, it only happens on one side of the house. So don't go into that room. Don't like do anything. And I was like, no, screw this. Like something's screwing with, you know, my family. I'm going to go upstairs. I'm not scared.

I don't really believe in what's happening. So I ran up the stairs over to the room, the room that they showed me, where they thought it lived. There's like a little closet, like a little, not walking closet, but like a closet with a door that you open. And on the inside of this closet door, there was this strange kind of writing. And it had like some strange arrangement of like numbers, almost like cipher. and like some letters that made no sense to us whatsoever. As I'm running over to grab the door handle, the door slams.

Like I'm not just talking about closes. Like it slams as though there were like a 200 mile per hour wind behind it. And it slams shut. So I pretty much run downstairs. And I look at Sarah and Cameron and they both have, you know, this kind of glazed over look on their face. Like they couldn't believe what they just heard.

and Cam and Sarah were both kind of like, okay, so now do you believe us? And I was kind of like just left in goilderment. I didn't really know what to say. I think I went home shortly after that. And, you know, I told my mom what happened and she was very, very upset with me. Because, yeah, apparently that did make it worse. And, you know, I did feel pretty bad about what happened. I think it was coming from a good place.

I was trying to keep it light, but, you know, being naive and kind of dumb, honestly, I made it much worse. I've always told my kids never to fuck around with the Ouija boards. Never. I've just, I've, anyone I know who's into this sort of spiritual things, they all say the same thing. Do not fuck around with them. And I was away. If I had heard that, and I always told them that. And don't try to do these stupid. and seances and stuff like that. I said, kids, you know what, you do not do it. So I didn't hear until after the fact, after, you know, after we were away and came home that they did that, I would have told them absolutely not to do that because that will set things off, I think, even worse, once you start screwing around with that. Not only that, even if you have, you know, a spirit in your house, you can bring more in. And I'm just like, do not. And they're, they always tell me they're the low-life spirits, the really bad ones.

So I remember when I was a kid, they had Ouija boards and stuff. And I remember my grandmother who was into this stuff saying, no, no, no, no, she was Irish. Do not ever play with those. Because we used to go to a friend's house and that happened. She'd say, no, no, don't do that. Don't go near that stuff. And I never did. And, you know, Sarah told me after the facts, and I'm like, you idiots, why would you do that, Sarah?

I told you guys never to do that. And they thought that, I think they just thought they could do it and say, okay, go away or whatever and everything would be settled. I don't know. I don't know what possess them. Daniels never admitted it to me because he knows I'd kick his ass. But Sarah was the one who told me and I'm like, oh my God, why would you guys do that? That's really not a smart thing to do. When I first went into the house, I felt something. But, you know, I'm sort of used to that. In our old house, I don't know if Sarah ever told you, in our old house one before we live in now where the kids grew up, we had a little ghost. But it was sort of more, how can I say, it sort of like was parallel to us on a parallel universe.

We didn't bug it. It didn't really bug us or anything. So I went in, went with Sarah's house, and I felt there was something there. But I didn't feel any. I never feel nervous about these things. They don't scare me too much. I come from a long line of what they call Welsh, which is what my grandfather was. Welsh and his family, you know.

And I'm not psychic in the sense, oh, I can tell this or this, but when bad things are going to happen, like the day my sister died, I woke up, and Peter was going on a road trip, and I said, and she wasn't sick. This was when I was very young when I was 21, and she just died very unexpectedly. And he woke up and he went to go and I was begging him not to go. I said, it's going to be a really bad day. I just know something very bad is happening today. And he kept saying, Joe, calm down. There's nothing bad going to happen. And then an hour later, I got a call that my sister had died.

It's that sort of, that sort I can never like, I didn't know it was her, but I knew something was happening. And it's like when I went into that house, I knew there was something there. And, you know, Sarah thought it was evil. And so I didn't feel so much evil. I felt like it just wanted to be noticed. And I felt it was Sarah said, Mom, you're the only one I know who feels sorry for a ghost, but I did. I felt very bad for it because I felt it was very lost and very misunderstood. and it just wanted some attention of some kind from, I don't know, I was getting very nervous

because I felt it was very, not just aggressive, but it wanted to be noticed, and especially by Sarah. And I got a strong sense, like what scared me, because I really, like I said, I'm not fearful of these things, but what two things scared me about it in the end is I really felt it didn't want Cameron around very strongly. And I felt that, Like the one time, I don't know if Sarah told you that that was the only time I really got a bit fearful is when we were going to a friend's wedding. And there was all this stuff with the plane that was unexplainable. And we kept delaying and delaying. And Sarah just kept saying, I'm not going.

And she always likes to go on these trips and I don't want to go. And I kept saying, Sarah, this is a free trip down to wherever. And I said, you know, what is the problem? She was acting sort of strange that whole time. And I thought, she's not right. There's something not right. And then when I was sitting just in front of her, and she was on the other side behind me. And I remember very clearly as a plane started to taxi, she said, I don't know if it was I'm or she's not going.

And she looked at me and it was like her eyes were all weird. And I thought, that's not, that's the only time that really flipped me out because I thought that's not Sarah talking to me right now. She was trying to undo her seatbelt and stuff. And I was like, okay, sit down, Sarah, calm down, calm down. And I was scared. I thought, we'll be kicked off the plane, whatever. And I remember, then she sort of calmed down after that. And I noticed when we were away, there was nothing happening.

Like, there was nothing going on. And she was fine pretty well that whole time. But then within a few days of getting home, there was some, you know, more weird stuff. And I remember thinking back, I thought, oh, my God, because I grew up Catholic. I remember thinking at the time about the exorcist because I'd read the books, and it was based actually on a priest from Winnipeg where I grew up in the prairies. And I thought, oh my God, what if my child becomes possessed by this thing? That was the only time, I'll be honest, I was really very fearful.

And then I thought, what if it gets her to hurt Cameron or something? That's what was really scaring me in the end. I just sort of went nuts on it one day because I could see how Hagrid the kids were and they weren't sleeping and they were both at their wits end. and I was getting very, very frustrated. I even tried with my nanny, who's also, she's Filipino, she's been a nanny since they're little, and she still comes and cleans for us in Sarah's house,

and I told her, and she still goes to church and everything, and she got me some holy water and stuff, and I said, let's bring the holy water in, and her and I went through the house and said some prayers and did the holy water, and then Sarah said after that, it acted up even worse, like it went ballistic. after that. I do remember Peter getting the rabbis and doing all,

we put up all the mazzuzas through the house, we did all this stuff, and that didn't do much either. I was getting really scared that this thing was starting to possess her. That was my biggest fear of it. And then when she told me, I don't know if she told you any of this, and I don't know how,

I just remember something about, she felt like it jumped on her one night and she couldn't breathe and she didn't know if it was trying to attack. her or whatever. And that's when I got really, I thought, okay, this is getting to be way too much, you know, something has to give one way or another because I thought she'll end up having a mental breakdown. I mean, she was terrified at this point. So was Cameron. Like, he looked like hell. And I mean, I've known that Cameron since he was, I don't know, I guess he was 16 when he came

on the scene. They've been together and, you know, they're in their 30s now. Cameron's 36, 37. So he's like one of my kids, and I could see it on his face every day. You know, I could see it on his face and on her face. And I just didn't, you know, there was no one to sort of call for these sort of things. I would stay a lot at nights. I got very scared. One night I stayed, and she started sleepwalking a lot. And I remember one night I went to get her, and she had that look in her eyes.

And I was like in the guest room and she was in her room. I don't know if Cameron was there that night or he was away. I can't remember, but I just remember. And I grabbed her and she had this like, you know, this, I call it the Charlie Manson look like that look of. And I said, Sarah, Sarah. And then she's like just staring up, staring at me. And then all of a sudden she just sort of dropped down to the ground. Like not even like a fate where you sort of, she literally dropped.

And then I tried to wake her up and stuff. And she had no idea, but she said she had had this horrible. nightmare about him. And I said, okay, let's get back to bed. Let's get back to bed. And I was really scared too that she would walk out onto the street or, you know, because she seemed to have no clue. And you could not wake her. It was really, I don't know if you've ever seen anyone sleepwalking. First of all, it's very, it's very strange. It's very kind of scary anyways. But I had seen her walking before, but this was even another level. It was like, I don't know, she wasn't there. It was like very strange. And you were kind of scared of her. I was kind of scared of her.

I was like, she had this crazy look in her eye at the time. And then, you know, it's all a sudden she just dropped and then I woke her up and she's like, what am I doing? And I'm like, sorry, come on, honey, get back to bed, get back to bed. But I remember being very bothered by that. I think if anything, those are the things that bothered me most. I felt like I kept saying to Sarah and Cameron, this thing cannot hurt you guys. Like, you know, I've never seen any, any stuff where a ghost or spirit actually, I mean, they can make some banging sounds. They can do all this stuff, but I've never heard of any of them hurting you. And that's why I kept trying to say to the kids, look, it can't hurt you unless you let it.

This one wanted some attention, obviously. And when you would come in, it would be like, I felt like it was trying to scare me for whatever reason. I don't know why, but it was trying, it wanted to be powerful, you know, and I didn't want to give it the power, but I could definitely, it was like, it's draining too. If you go in there for a few minutes and you're like, no, you're not going to scare me, blah, blah, blah, and you come out, it drains your energy as well. It's very drained. And I never, like I said, I've experienced spirits before in different houses, but nothing like this. I never had anything like the energy of this one. I think more than anything is the energy of this one. just was like a wild horse or something. It had so much energy. Everyone thinks you can explain everything, and sometimes you can't,

and I think when people can't find an explanation, they either say, you're crazy, you're making it up, or I don't know what, but people need explanations for everything, and when there isn't some, are something we can't explain, I think they get really, really scared, or they try to pretend it didn't happen. And that's what Sarah said.

If she goes public, she goes, luck, mom, people are going to call me crazy. I said, well, that's up to you. They didn't live it. You know, it's up to you. And she goes, I don't care what they think. She said, I know what I went through. I think there's just so much we don't know. And, you know, I think there's a lot.

We'll never know. But, you know, you just have to, like we got professionals. I guess they were professionals in. And thank God. We were just lucky. I kept thinking, what if? you know, we didn't find something. What would have ended up happening?

That's what scares me sometimes when I think about it. What would have ended up happening if we didn't get any help. Okay, we have to take a quick break, but we will be right back. I am Sarah's father. I was witness to some of this. First of all, I thought it was weird that they found such a nice property in that price range because it didn't really make sense. So my first call it instinct was to say what's wrong with this property?

What could be wrong? Anyway, so once they moved into the house, weird things started happening. So there was all this water stuff that seemingly kept happening. I didn't make very much of that. I just sort of thought, oh, okay, that's weird. seem to be having a lot of water issues. I wonder if they're in a low point or maybe there's some kind of underground waterway

or something that may be adding to this. But anyways, I kind of put that aside. They dealt with their flood. And then the next thing I really was aware of was some paranormal activity happening in the house. And I think it was my wife having spent some time there helping my daughter and my wife saying she kind of felt a presence. She started reporting a few things. Maybe it was noises started to happen, you know, like noises, like, you know, maybe doors opening and closing, stuff like that.

and I thought, okay, tuck it in the back of my hat, but nothing was really, I'm going to say, pronounced enough that I would be worried, right? It was sort of like, okay, there's some strange things going on in the house. We should find out if, you know, the house was haunted. And then I found out, I don't know, somehow I found out that, oh, by the way, the, you know, the house. before the developer got to it,

was laid dormant for like eight years. And then started hearing stuff about that, that, you know, houses that lie dormant for any length of time, that long of a period of time, are subject to being haunted. I think that what kind of kicked it into a high-gear-hear- concerned for me was when my wife started reporting things that my daughter was doing and saying. And she didn't know what to attributed to, but she was getting really worried about Sarah.

Some of it would have been like swearing. Some of it would have been acting out. Some of it would have been saying things about Cameron or to Cameron that were completely out of character for Sarah. So we spoke about that, but you know how it goes, like, or maybe you don't, but at first when you hear these things, you kind of shrug them off as being, eh, okay. So you heard some doors opening and closing and, you know, things are weird, or you slept over and you felt a presence.

So you kind of, you know, shrug them off, or at least I do, until it started getting weirder. We were sitting down in our family room one evening. I think we were making a fire and having a nice chat, just my wife and I and them. I don't forget what we were talking about. And I think Sarah picked up the poker that was sitting next to the fireplace and said something along the lines of, I could kill you, you know, if I wanted to. It wasn't like there was a preceding argument. It wasn't like, it was just like kind of out of a...

nowhere. I knew something was wrong. This was not my daughter. This was somebody else, some other presence speaking through her. Stuff like threats, you know, swear words, swearing at him and, you know, saying, you know, I'm going to kill you or I don't want you here or, you know, time for you to go or, you know, it's something along those lines or, you know, why don't you just leave us? You know, stuff that was out of character. My daughter would never utter those threats. And when I first encountered that, I said, you know, this is concerning because it was clear

that whatever was talking through her would have had the tendency to. to be violent, was uttering death threats, and I take that seriously. That's what first got us concerned. And then when I saw it in person, I said, okay, this is a whole other level. So I reached out to a trusted source. And principally because of the concern. that she was in trouble. You know, people call them psychics.

Some people call them clairvoyance. Some people call them, you know, intuitive. And this person, woman, clarified for me a lot of things, a lot of things. And she very quickly pinpointed the fact that the house was situated in a piece of property that a long time ago was kind of a native First Nations crossing where tribes came together and there was a waterway. And it was built on, it was built in this place. So it had a very Aboriginal or First Nations residence to her.

And she said there's definitely that component going on. And the other thing she said was you should be concerned about your daughter because it seems to me that maybe one of the spirits that has attached itself to the home is seeking to attach itself to your daughter. There's something going on and you need to deal with it. And so she right away said, I would try and seek out, get some crystals happening, bring some, bring some crystals and and rocks that are healing rocks and protective rocks into Sarah's immediate surrounding. And she said, if you can, reach out and see if you can find someone who can help you.

you know she basically gave me the message that what sarah was experiencing was real wasn't in her mind what we were seeing was a real concern and there was an entity or entities that were attempting to attach themselves to my daughter so i did go out i found a place that had you know crystals and rocks and did uh aura cleansing and all this stuff and i have a I happened to have a friend of mine who's met through a photography workshop and I was taking a number of workshops with this guy and his partner is a woman who has also kind of a sixth sense about her and I phoned her up and I said I'm really concerned about my daughter. There seems to be, I mean, I know it sounds crazy, but there seems to be. seems to be the spirit that has attached itself to her house, to her, potentially. And in a harmful way, I'm really concerned about her well-being.

And she said, you know what? I don't know. She said, let me make some inquiries after a little bit. She came back to me and said, you know, I don't usually do this for people, Peter, but you're a good friend. Why don't you and Sarah come over for dinner? and I'll see what I see and I'll tell you what I see. So we did. I invited Sarah over to their house.

They very kindly had us over for dinner. After dinner, she took me aside and said, there is definitely a spirit that has attached itself to your daughter. I was there. I could see him. I was encountering him. He's attached. And he's.

not letting go, not easily. And he's definitely with her, you know, wouldn't leave. And she had this sense of him being possessive of Sarah. So I didn't argue. I didn't argue with her. I said, oh, that's very interesting. I mean, obviously, I couldn't see or detect anything, but she said most definitely there was a spirit.

and sitting right next to her. One of the strangest experiences I've ever had with my daughter, frankly, we were sitting in this Japanese cafe, having a nice lunch, and I started inquiring about these episodes. And she started explaining to me how she didn't feel, herself sometimes and that something was taken over.

And I looked at her from across the table and I've never had this happen before, but I actually saw my daughter's face start to distort, almost like, how can I put it? Almost like in the movies when they, when it's pretended that there's static on a screen, it's almost like her face started to distort in that way. And it was like when she was telling me the stuff about her not feeling in control, that's when her face started going weird. and that's when I became totally and utterly convinced that there was a spiritual being attached to her and that I had to do something on my own volition to deal with us. And I've never had that before and never had it since.

It's almost like, it's almost like, you know, when there's an image of a face that's gone, through a scanner, but it's like the scanner is not, you know, it's off tune. It's like one side of her face was being, was like visually distorting, almost like that. Like it was distorting, like it wasn't, it wasn't continuous tissue. It was like it was being scanned. There was like lines of light that were almost like shooting through. her skin on one side of her face.

I tried not to overreact and freak out. I just said to myself, there's something fucking very real here. I knew that at that point in time, I was seeing it for myself. That there was, even though I couldn't see the spirit, I saw her face distort. And I knew something was, you know, in my daughter, on my daughter.

Within my daughter, I, like, attached to my daughter. And I just, it was scary, you know, very scary. Because this was not my daughter. I said, okay, I've got to do something. I've got to take matters into my own hands and try and find someone who is going to help me with this because the psychic wasn't doing it. This other person wasn't, I mean, wasn't available. I didn't think the rocks and the crystals and whatever we were doing to try and protect Sarah's immediate environment was really changing anything. So I said, I got to get involved in

and try and find somebody. So I started with the only person, and I mean the only person that I've ever encountered in my career who was First Nations, you know, Canadian Indian, whatever you want to call them. And he, there was this fellow who worked for me, did jobs, demolition jobs. He was a window washer by trade. I pulled him into my office one day and I said, forgive me, I don't know anyone else to ask. I feel really awkward doing this because you're the only person I know who's First Nations and I don't know who else to turn to. And explain the whole situation to him. And he was incredibly sympathetic and just listening. And at the end of the long explanation, as I told him what was going on, and I said that we were told that there is,

is definitely a First Nations component to this, that the house might have been residing on some old trading ground. I said, is there any chance that you might know somebody? And he just looked at me and said, as a matter of fact, my brother is like a medicine man. And I said, wow. He said, Peter, leave it with me. We're approaching a full moon in the next couple of weeks. Leave it with me. let me contact my brother and see if he's willing or knows someone who is willing to take it on. A week goes by, I hear nothing. Then all of a sudden I get a call from him out of the blue. And he says, okay, here's what we're going to do.

We're waiting for the full moon. My brother, along with his assistant, is going to join. with you and Sarah and Cameron at the house. We're going to do a full moon ritual, basically, where we bring in some sacred artifacts, and we will burn some sacred wood, build a fire, build a bonfire, and then we're going to have to interview

Sarah and Cameron before all of this, and then conduct essentially a spiritual exorcism in the house. So that was it. I basically had to wait, you know, until the full moon. I waited for them to call me. And of course, eventually they did. All right. Thank you to Sarah's family members for,

speaking to me. Next week is going to be the finale of this series. We'll be hearing from everyone as they talk about what happened on the night that all of this came to a head. This has been episode 57, Many Things Part 4, and you've been listening to Otherworld. Otherworld is executive produced and hosted by myself, Jack Wagner. Our theme song is by Coburman. The soundtrack of this episode is by Juice Jackal and North Americans. This episode was edited by Theo Krantz and engineered by Theo Schaefer. Our artwork is by Coltisack Studios. Production help by Nikki Kate Delgado and Haley Pearson.

Please show us your support, especially with these episodes, by telling your friends, subscribing, and leaving a five-star review. If you want to hear bonus episodes of Otherworld, you could become a patron at patreon.com slash Otherworld. Our social media is at Otherworld Pod. We also have some really good merch coming. Stay tuned for that.

Thank you to the team at Odyssey. J.D. Crowley, Jenna Weiss-Berman, Leo Reese Dennis, Rob Morandi, Eric Donnelly, Matt Casey, Casey Klauser, Moira Curran, Josephina Francis, and Hillary Schuff. Follow and listen to Otherworld Now for free on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. And finally, if you or somebody you know has experienced something paranormal, supernatural, or unexplained, you could send us the story at Stories at Otherworldpod.com.