Otherworld - Episode 63: The House on Christmas Tree Lane

Episode Date: December 11, 2023

Despite being a Coroner, there is only one experience that has left Christian truly unsettled. It occurred while staying over at a house that is somewhat infamous in his town of Fresno, CA, on a street called Christmas Tree Lane. Subscribe to Otherworld on Patreon for exclusive content and bonus interviews Check out our Merch Follow us on: Instagram, TikTok, Twitter If you have experienced something paranormal or unexplained, email us your story at [e-mail] To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to Otherworld. I'm your host Jack Wagner. The story was sent to me by a guy named Christian. And while the story itself takes place when he was a teenager growing up in Fresno, California, I also found his current job extremely interesting. He's a coroner, and he used to be an embalmer. I'm not sure what a coroner's supposed to look like, but I would never have imagined one looking like Christian. He looks like somebody that you'd be more likely to see in a skate shop

than an autopsy room. And I'm always fascinated when somebody writes in who does a job that most people would find frightening or bizarre because it's always interesting to find out what it is that actually scares them. So we're going to hear a bit about Christian's work and then, of course, we're going to be hearing about something that happened to him

when he was younger at a house that he is still scared of to this day. This is episode 63. The title is The House on Christmas Tree Lane, and you're listening to Otherworld. Hello? Is this Bobby? Yes, it is. At its core, the science, you can't argue. I'm worried about all the science.

Up in the sky. It's almost frustrating that it's happening. I'm going to die. I'm bug like, it's limbs were just like wrong. Everybody moves back into the light, even if it takes them in it. My name is Christian. I'm from Fresno, California. I work with the sheriff's office as a deputy coroner.

I've been doing the coroner work as an investigator for about a year and a half now. Prior to that, I was an embalmer, so that's how I sort of got into the coroner aspect of it. I was an embalmer for about six years. I went to school in Sacramento for it, embalmed in Sacramento, in Santa Cruz, and then back here in Fresno. So I've been around death a lot. these past, you know, six to eight years now with this current job. So as far as getting into it, like I said, I was embalming. You start seeing people on your table as an embalmer and you wonder

what happened. So I always sort of was a little more interested on the investigation side of it is what happened to this person, what's the story. And that's always something that's held my interest. So I ended up, there was a job opening. My father-in-law told me about it. He's a chaplain with the police department in Fresno, so we're both around this kind of stuff. And he said, you know, you should maybe look into it and apply. So I have my degrees in mortuary science and forensic science. So it's sort of made for this kind of job. The difference between those two jobs is that embalming and funeral homes, it's very much, I mean, it's a business. You're making money off of families. I mean, and they're grieving, but at the end of the day, there's a job to do. And the same

is to be said about the coroners and investigation, but we don't make money off of people. It's a civil, you know, duty. It's a duty to the public. And, you know, it's a duty to our whole community to investigate the death of a homeless person, a rich person. It doesn't matter. to us. We want to figure out what killed that person so we can give closure to their families and also verify that their death wasn't suspicious. So I respond to all types of death scenes. It can be an accident, a homicide, an overdose. I've held dismembered limbs. I've seen some very scary stuff to the normal person that to me is just like, that's Wednesday, you know, But I think that it's changed my view of death and everything because you just realize how fragile everything is.

I've got kids, you know. I think about what these other people deal with when they lose their children. It's very tough and to think that that could happen to you. And I think that a lot of people who don't, I want to say have the privilege of working in this field, they really actually have the privilege of that sort of ignorance is bliss kind of thing where you don't know about how quick it can happen, how rough it can go. So that's changed my views on death a lot. I'm very paranoid about things happening now, especially with my kids and just driving and things that people sort of take for granted, realizing that, you know, it could be very dangerous. But then also just the afterlife aspect of it, you know, I raise. Catholic, but I sort of fancy myself in agnostic, but my wife's Buddhist, has a Buddhist background,

but she's also Catholic. So we're sort of in this weird groove of like anything could be the truth for us. We're sort of keeping an open mind to it. I try to keep an open mind to it, because I've seen a lot of people grieve, obviously, and I have to go tell people when, you know, I go make notification, let them know that. you know, their family member died if they're not aware of it already. So I could be knocking on someone's door at 2 in the morning to tell them that, you know, their relative died. So that being said, you know, I've seen how people grieve and how they take that news.

And some of them really cling to, you know, their religion or just their family. So it sort of makes me look at that as, you know, I couldn't say any of them is wrong, you know. Some religions are just like, this is it. This is the way it could be. I have a problem with thinking that any one way is right because I feel like there's just, there's so much more in common than there is different between how people deal with death too and grief.

So it still makes what happened with me, it still raises a lot of questions because everything we do is so rooted in fact and science, as much as we can, you know, in evidence. And with what I encountered when I was, younger and a little bit older since I had two sort of experiences with it, I still can't explain. So, and that's, that's probably the most troubling part to me. Being the person I am, it sort of throws me off. So I have to ask, what is it like being an embalmer? I've never, I don't think

I've ever talked to somebody with that job before. Yeah, I mean, I think people want to hear that it's like something like, it's more grandiose than it is, but I mean, it's dark. I mean, it's, There's no real way to phrase it. Yeah, when I was in mortuary college, there's just a lot of people that want to become embalmers or funeral directors. And, you know, their persona is very much, you know, it is like they're into death metal or their got gotth or whatever, and they're into corpses.

They got the coffin backpacks and stuff. And but when they get presented with a body on like a, you know, steel table, you know, in a prep room, it's like reality sinks. that that's a dead person that they're in there with. And all of a sudden they're like, no, I'm good. And I mean, that was half my mortuary class. I think we started off with like 45 of us and only like 20 something of us graduated. And then needless to say, of the 20 something of us that graduated,

how many of us actually stayed in the business? I mean, I keep in good close contact with my cohort from mortuary college. And I'm pretty sure I was the last one that was embalming. None of them were doing prep room stuff anymore. And it's not because they couldn't handle it. They all were actually the ones that graduated, got licenses and stuff. It's just, you know, all of our interests sort of spurred out different ways. But we were capable of it, but it's just these people that they think that they can do it.

There's people that think they can be, you know, deputy coroners or even autopsy techs. I mean, our techs at the office are cutting people every day. And they think that, oh, I've got this background I can handle. this or I saw this on TV and then they get into a prep room, start smelling things, start seeing things, start realizing that there's bugs, you know, start realizing these. And all these new fears start coming to them and they're like, oh, no, I'm not built for this. And, you know, and that's fine. Like, I think I respect people that acknowledge what they can and can't do, like someone who's like, oh, I can't be a parent. It's like, good for you. Like, don't force yourself

to do something you can't do kind of thing. So I think everyone just built differently and might, I don't know what it's attributed to, but yeah, I mean, people romanticize it and think that they're capable of doing it. And I think that for me, I had the luxury of going to a prep room and going to a funeral home before I went to mortuary college. My uncle has a funeral home in Santa Cruz. That's how I ended up in Santa Cruz after college. But, you know, he asked me to come out and see it before I went off to school and made my whole, you know, my whole schooling choice to be an embalm. It's like, why don't you come see a dead body first and work with a family and like go through that before you decide that that's something you want to do, which I think I think a lot of people should do with most jobs, honestly. But anyway, yeah.

I feel like everyone that I work with is really open to this kind of stuff. I mean, again, we all are all very, you know, everyone's got like some kind of science background or something. Everyone's very just like, this is what it is. but a few of the techs have heard stuff at our office saying that they've heard someone say their name when they were by themselves. And which usually, I mean, usually there's one or two people in the office, but it's a pretty big office.

We have a pretty new facility. But some of them said they've heard things like their name specifically. I've heard stuff at the funeral homes. There's always that one guy that does removals at the funeral home that says he heard someone praying the rosary in the refrigerator. that was one I've heard. People saying they've heard stuff in the chapels when they close up. So I've heard stories of one of my friends was closing one of the funeral homes we

worked at in Sacramento. And he said that when he went to shut down after a visitation had happened, the body was still in there and in the casket with the casket actually open. This is an open casket visitation. And he said he thought everyone had left. So he was closing up in law. walking and you know the chapel lights are still on the music still playing they have like little CDs they play and he said he walked into the chapel and there was a guy sitting in the pew

facing the casket still and so he was like walking up to the guy and said excuse me and the guy was not turning around or answering them whatsoever um this one gives me chills a little bit because when i heard that one i was like oh that's creepy dude and i had already sort of gone through my thing so i was like yeah i don't want to hear about this but um he said he kept walking up to them and he stopped halfway down the aisle between the pews and the guy didn't turn around and he said all right we're closed i'm going to turn the lights off in like five minutes so if you're not out of here i'm going to turn the lights off and we're locking up because he was just he was scared at this point um so he said he went back to the office and hung out for a minute and walked back and the guy was gone but you know

there's little bells on the doors and stuff like you know when people are coming in because they want you to be able to walk up and greet people when you're going into a visitation or something he said he never heard anything. So that one was always creepy, and I was just like, what did the guy look like? And he's like, he sort of looked like from the back looked like the dude that was in the casket. And I was like, oh, no, okay, so we're good. So that was a little story that he told me. But as far as currently at my current job, I hear stories from mostly like our autopsy technicians when they're by themselves.

They've heard things, weird things. And we have reserved deputies who are, they're with the sheriff's office, but they're college students. And so they got badge guns, everything. But they'll work with us so they can get experience because patrol officers are the first ones to respond to these kinds of scenes. You know, so they'll be the first one to see a dead body most of the time along with EMS. And so those are some of the groups of people that they start and then they see a dead body and they're like, oh, I didn't know what was this. I thought I was just going to be a cop. And it's like, no, you're going to see dead bodies, man.

You're going to, you might do CPR on a dead body. But a few of the 108 reserve deputies have said they've heard things too. But, you know, it's hard to tell. It's a big office, you know. I try to rationalize it a bit because I'm there by myself sometimes too. But, yeah, that's sort of what I've heard from them. At the last funeral home I worked out, I worked only in the prep room, so I wasn't doing services.

And I went to put the coat on to lock it up. there by myself on a Saturday. So I've embalmed by myself with bodies everywhere too. And I don't hear caskets falling in that kind of stuff. But I went to lock up and the alarm didn't go off. And it said that it will show where there's a breach. And it says chapel door.

And I'm like, so it's this really old funeral home in downtown Fresno. And I mean, it's got pillars. It's got this old, just almost like, I don't know, like almost like Victorian. plantationist like style looking building and i was like okay and all the lights are off in the funeral home so i'm walking through it's got a big old staircase in the front entrance and i walk by the staircase and i'm just starting to creep myself out because i i started thinking back sort of

to my experience a little bit and i was like oh no and um i went to open the door leading down from the So leading down from the main floor of the funeral home, there's like steps that lead into the chapel area where people have this service. When I opened the door, I heard a door slam. And so I was like, nope. And I didn't go. I was like, I'm not going to set the alarm. I don't care. I ran off.

So I rationalized that maybe there was like an air vacuum. And when I opened the door, it just made the other door slam because it does happen. And that's what I told myself. And that's what I'm going to stick with for now because I can't confirm any of that. but it scared me a little bit. And that's when I started to realize probably too, I was like, man, that whole experience I had sort of messed with me a little bit probably because I try to not think that everything's paranormal, like you said.

You know, I try to, it's 50-50. It could be. It couldn't be. So I've worked around death and things that could scare people for, you know, years now. And I've had experiences that I could always, you know, you know, sort of rationalize or explain. But there's one incident that I still, to the state, cannot explain with the amount of knowledge and experience I have this experience in this particular house.

I just can't explain. It started, well, when I was 16. I got my driver's license. I wanted to start going around, driving around everywhere. went to a skate park not very close to my side of town. And when I was there, I ran into these brothers that I knew that I'd sort of seen around like punk and hardcore shows in Fresno, sort of talked to them, hung out with them for the day.

After some time went by, you know, it's hot. Fresno gets like 115, 116, it gets pretty rough here. They had skated from home, and so I asked where they lived, and they said, well, we live over off Christmas. Christmas Tree Lane. And so in Fresno, there's a strip called Vanis, and it's a lot of these old, really nice houses. They've been around since, like, early 1900s, a lot of them. So when people say they're from Christmas Tree Lane area, you're sort of assuming like, oh, man, okay, like you might be rich or you do good. I mean, it's a lot of dentists, doctors, lawyers, professors, you know, local politicians, people who made their money in Silicon Valley and moved out here because they want a big patch of land kind of thing. So, and that was pretty far from where the skate park was. So I had offered to drive them home. I was like, well, I got my truck.

You just throw your boards in the back and we'll go back to your house. And they were like, yeah, come over. We'll hang out and we like have pizza and stuff. I mean, it's typical like 16-year-old stuff. The house was old. I mean, the furniture, it's got like crown moldings. I mean, it's a very Victorian-looking house. But it's not like run down like,

scary or anything. I mean, people lived there. It's just a little bit, it's like out of this time kind of thing. It's almost like walking into a time capsule, except you've got, you know, these like skate punk kids living in there with their mom. You know, there's nothing really that stood out that was scary. It's definitely the least, like, aesthetically pleasing of the houses by the outside of it, you know? Like, it's not like painted, like, you know, bright, vibrant colors. It's very just like dull um but it's still it's it's just an old style house i mean the staircase is different they've got a dumbwaiter that goes from the second story down down staircase which you don't see very often i had a basement um which in fresno there's not a lot of basement it's uh it's just

not really something you get out here very often but these old houses do so i mean style-wise i it just looked older, but it was not, it wasn't scary. I was just like, oh, not what I was expecting kind of thing. When they told me that they were from that area, I was expecting like, oh, maybe these are, like, rich kids that are slumming it as, like, skater punk dudes. But, like, they were basically, like, these punk guys living in a really old, haunted house.

But it didn't give that vibe when I got there. It just looked like a house that had been in the family for a while, which it had. Their mom actually inherited it from their grandparents who were the people who bought it from the original owners. So their grandparents, these brothers, their grandparents actually bought the house from the parents of the kid that died there. So there hasn't been other families really in between. So that family had been in that house for, I want to say his mom had been in that house for like close to 50 years or something like that. By the time that I had gone in there, she had basically grown her. up in it. So it didn't really give, like I said, haunted house vibes just family home that's been

in the family for a very long time. But it was nice, you know, I locked in, hung out with these brothers and their friends. We're talking about skateboarding and just like punk stuff. They were in a punk band together. So I was sort of just, I was trying to make these new friends, you know. And we hung out pretty late and it got to that point where it was just like, oh, why don't you just stay over? And, you know, at the time, I was just like, yeah, I'll hang out, you know, everyone's up. You know, it's pretty lively in that house. You know, so I tell my mom, I'm not going to come home. I'm going to stay over with these dudes from the skate park.

And at about, I want to say, it was one, maybe two, one or two in the morning, you know, everyone starts sort of like, I'm done, I'm going to sleep, whatever. And, you know, we're 16, but no one's, like, drinking or doing anything. We're, like, literally drinking soda all night. eating pizza and um you know watching skate videos i want to say we're watching pigwood uh slaughterhouse specifically because i remember that video very specifically now too um so we're was watching skate videos and stuff these guys you know all start falling asleep there's like three couches in the living room and uh so i picked one and it's back is to where there are staircases and then the

front door is you know basically where my feet are and I start trying to go to sleep and they all zonked out pretty fast but I was sort of up and I started feeling when I was there like it was just dead quiet in the house like I couldn't even hear these guys snoring or anything it was just dead silent and so I started trying to close my eyes and every time I'd closed my eyes I felt like someone was standing over me like looking at me like sort of just like over like over completely over my face and so I opened my eyes like to be like what the hell and at first I was thinking these guys are messing with me because you know they're part of the same friend group and I'm sort of like this new guy haven't you know first time I really hung out with them you know outside of like seeing him at a show or something and they're all still sleeping you know one one guy's on the floor

one guy's on the couch and then the other guys on the couch there's like there's four of us maybe there's like four or five of us but um everyone sort of, everyone's still asleep when I wake up. So I'm like, okay. And I start closing my eyes again. And I just get that feeling immediately as I shut my eyelids, like something standing over me. And so I look over the back of the couch, like thinking, you know, someone's a pop out from on the couch, and there's still nobody there. And I do this a couple times. I keep sort of drifting. It gets to a point where I start drifting. I don't have that feeling. And I start feeling myself drift out of sleep, and I'm just feeling it more and more. I think that you know when you're in your head and you feel like, oh, is somebody watching me?

But you can sort of rationalize that feeling. But it's not even so much the mental thing. I almost could, like, almost physically feel the presence of somebody. And I think that's what scared me. And I think any person that you, you know, any of us that really thinks about how we deal with things, when you're looking over your shoulder at, like, the supermarket, when someone's following too close, You can sense that they're there, but you don't know for sure until you look around and see them kind of thing. It was sort of that feeling.

I got this real feeling that someone was just physically just planted over me. And every time I'd open my eyes, they just wouldn't be there. It just felt as if someone was just waiting for me to almost acknowledge them, like to look at them and acknowledge them. That's what it really felt like. But they didn't want to make, they didn't want to make their presence stone. It's like, I needed to discover them kind of thing. Like, I needed to be sort of aware enough to sense where they were at. And that's the only way I can explain it.

I mean, it's just that sort of weird sixth sense that we all have when we feel somebody that's maybe staring too long or standing too close behind you. It's just sort of that, like, I'm in your bubble and what are you going to do about it kind of feeling. I finally looked up and sat up and I sat up on the couch for a while. And when I did that, one of the guys had sat up from the floor. And he was like, did you touch me? And I said, no. And he was like, and he sort of looked at me like, what?

And so he goes back, lays back down, goes to sleep. And I was like, what? And so I became a little paranoid at this point. So I'm sitting up and I laid down. I turned my back and I was just like, oh, maybe everyone's just feeling weird or something, right? And as I'm laying down, I start hearing, I mean, what I can only, only explained was footsteps coming down the stairs. I mean, that's what it sound like to me. It was the creaking, the weight of feet on wood kind of thing. And, you know, his mom was in the house. So I'm thinking,

like, oh, maybe his mom's coming down, but it was just so slow. Like, it wasn't like how people walk downstairs. People don't walk downstairs at such as, like, slow pace, you know, they're usually going upstairs, downstairs. It was just very, like, ominous. And I had this just, like, real sense of like um i don't like dread like i was like i was afraid to sit up and turn around to look and see if someone was there it was just really much like really like one foot maybe like 10 seconds i mean it felt like 10 seconds maybe it was only 5 one foot then the next foot one foot then the next foot it wasn't like um like someone who's walking comfortably through their house it's only like someone sneaking up on you is how I felt, you know?

And so, yeah, that's when I decided. I was like, I'm just going to pop up. Maybe it's just his mom. And there is nobody there. I mean, nobody on the staircase. And the staircase is partially covered. There's like these like wood, almost like their, their vertical, like posts. But you could see if someone's walking down.

There's nobody, nobody walking down there. The staircase does, it goes up and then it makes a turn, though, too. so I was like, well, maybe someone's up higher on the other part, but it sounded low. It sounded where our part of the floor was. And so I had trouble sleeping, obviously. I stared at the ceiling until I started to see daylight come through the windows. And I was like, oh, okay, I feel a little comfortable now, and I fell asleep. So at about like maybe, oh, man, I want to say eight or nine in the morning, roundabout.

You know, I had slept in a little bit. These guys were still out. And we all started waking up and, you know, we're talking in the morning. And I just said, you know, I felt weird last night. And they were sort of laughing about it. And I was just like, well, like you. And I pointed to one of the guys. And I was like, you said you felt someone touched me.

And he's like, yeah, I thought it was you. And then one of the brothers says, well, the house is haunted. And I was like sort of nervously laughed. And then the friend didn't nervously laugh. He was like blank face about it. And then the brother, the older brother was like, yeah, he's not joking. The house is haunted. And so I'm like, what do you mean?

And then they're like, well, this is the Christmas tree lane house. Like, it's that house. And so to sort of elaborate on that, in Fresno, everyone knows Christmas tree lane. You grow up here, you go to Christmas tree lane on Christmas. All the houses get decorated. People come from surrounding towns. Some people come from out of town just to see it. We even get like tourists that are like,

it's like one of the stops they make. Like they'll go to Yosemite and then they'll come through Fresno, do Christmas Tree Lane kind of thing for the holiday season. So it's well known. But the story of it, why it started is these people had a son and their son died. And the story has always changed over the years. But the, you know,

because people add stuff to it. And they're like, oh, yeah, it was gnarly. It was this little kid. And the story is it's a little kid. 14-year-old and he died. He got some kind of equipment entanglement in this like pump house in the back of the house. They used to have well pumps out in these big properties because it's the county technically. It's not like an actual city incorporation. So a lot of these big houses have wells. And I guess he got injured inside of this well house and died. And these parents, the dad was a dentist

and looked very well to do, hence the big house and everything that they built. They were the original owners. And after this kid died, he decided to decorate the cedar tree. This whole neighborhoods just lined with these huge trees. And so he decorated the tree in front of the house. And then so the neighbors started following suits. So the whole street just started decorating. And now it's like people have these crazy,

elaborate Christmas decorations. It's pretty neat. And then they get, you know, they get their own radio station. So it's like a little holiday pool. But the story of it is, yeah, a kid died there and that's what started it. So it's like this sort of like Christmas ghost story kind of feel to it, you know, is that, you know, this kid died. And that's why these people put these lights up. But now it's just a tradition that's been carried on for over 100 years now, which is crazy to think about. So they told me that. And I was like, what do you mean? And they're like, this is that house the kid died at and I was like oh boy so that at that point I started to feel I felt like when you find out that you know your cat or died or your dog died or something is like

I got a pit in my stomach like I was like oh something happened last night and I was very sure of it and I was like that wasn't like that that was not like that was real like I something weird was happening while I was asleep. So I left. I went back home and did whatever I did that day. And that night at home in my bed, you know, where I'm feeling all right, I went to sleep pretty fast. And in my dream, I wake up and I'm on that couch again inside of that kid's house. I wake up, I'm looking around. and I'm not much of a vivid dreamer. I have very, like, chaotic dreams when I do dream, I feel like, but this one was very much, like, I'm in this house.

It was, like, an exact replica of the house. There was nothing weird out of place. I want to say I could see the guys sleeping, but I don't think when I woke up, I ever looked that way in the dream. When I woke up in the dream, I should say, I didn't really look in that general direction where they're at, but it's almost like I could sense that they were there, but sort of like blurred out.

Like there was like, I was only supposed to be focused on this one area of the dream. But it was very vivid. All of a sudden, instead of me, like being in myself, I'm standing over myself. And now I can see myself laying on the couch. So I see myself on this couch sleeping, but I feel like I'm awake.

But it's me asleep. and so I'm looking over myself at the couch and I feel something over on my side. I can almost see it through my peripheral and I started to get that feeling of just dread. Like I wanted almost like almost like you want to throw up but you're in your dream. You're like, I am not going to turn.

I don't want to look and see. But it's like I sort of had to. Like it is almost like part of that character development in your dream where you've got to keep doing it so you can get out of your dream kind of thing. and you know so you don't have any control over it and I just started to look and there on the staircase looks like a shape of somebody

there's no distinguishing features there's no clothes I can see it's just this black shape and I think I described it as like if you ever had an old TV when you would turn it off and you were like watching the news or something and you could see almost the outline of the person or the shape that was on TV like a pixel

so it's almost staticy I mean, it's very, it's just like a blurry, dark image, but it's black, you know, and it takes up, it shows up even in like your dark, in a dark room area, even though it's, it's got that weird dream lighting kind of thing, but it was there and I could sense it and I didn't want to look directly at it. I could just sort of feel it in my peripheral and sensed it. And then I remember looking back at myself in the dream and waking up. and I woke up in the middle of the night and I was like, whoa, okay, no, no. And so I stayed up in my room. I remember sitting up in my bedroom in my parents' house, you know, as a 16-year-old

just being like, yeah, I'm not going to go back to sleep now. So I stayed up, as long as I could, I probably ended up passing out from exhaustion a little bit, but I was, it stressed me out. And so after that, you know, I maintained a friendship with the brothers, but I never went back to the house until I was like 21.

So years past, I refused to go there. They had moved out. They were living in like apartments and stuff and doing, you know, street punk things, you know. So they weren't living in that house so much anymore. But then there became a point where we ended up going back when we were older. All right, we have to take a quick break, but we'll be right back.

So I think that the thing that was over me was the thing at the stairs, but trying to show me that I'm that thing too. It was weird. I mean, I've thought about this for years, about what was the meaning of it? Like, what's, like, was this dream? Like, was this thing showing me something?

Or was I, like, this person? Like, why is it showing me myself then? Or, like, and I don't know. My other fear was that it that, like was it like look at me look at me like almost like wanting me to like be it or vice versa and that's when i i've sort of heard from other people is just like do you think it was like trying to get into you i mean that's like that's like the scariest thing to ever hear someone tell you is like oh no like again i don't want to hear that um but it i sense that

whatever was standing over me was that thing that was on the staircase, that blur, that black blur thing. But I also think that it was trying to say that I could be it or vice versa. Like we were interchangeable almost. And like it was drawing me away from myself. And that makes me still uncomfortable to this day that I felt drawn out. So I thought about that too is that while I'm at home, right? And am I thinking about this, this house still? The thing that I, that tells me it was a dream is that I obviously, I saw myself, but back at that house. So like, that's the part that's always just like stuck its hooks in me is just like, but what about you seeing you? Because I've only had maybe one of those experiences in a dream before. And it was as a kid and my mom can probably still

attest to it that I woke up and I said, I flew last night. My mom was like, you're probably dreaming. But I think that when I was a kid, I had that sort of, oh, I'm flying out of my body dream that a lot of people have. But that's the only time I've ever felt like that. But that dream was also very vivid. For a kid, you're thinking, oh, I'm flying up towards my ceiling. It gave me that feeling again, but in like the most, like horrible way because I wasn't flying or enjoying myself. I mean, I felt like I'm looking at myself and I'm away for myself. I didn't feel safe. I felt sort of vulnerable. And as far as imagining that, it's just, it's so vivid. I'm quick to shut off thoughts, but it may be subconsciously if I'm working that way and it made my

dreams work that way. Sure, you know. But I think that what solidified how I feel about the dreams now is the encounter when I was 21 when we went back there. That's when I was just like, this place is fucking evil and I never want to go to this house ever again. So I stayed friends with the brothers and they were moving out of an apartment and they were moving into a house. And so the brother that I was closest with was the younger brother. He hits me up and he's like, hey man, like, can you help me move this bed? I had a truck still. It's the same truck that I drove them to when I was 16. And so he's like, yeah, I need to. I need to move this bed, I'll pay you, you know, $20 and I'll give you a burrito, you know,

your set, I'll pay for your gas, whatever. And I'm like, what's this dude getting at? Because he's already like offering stuff. Like normally I would just do that for a friend, just in general, but I was like, where's the bed at? And he goes, it's at my mom's. I was like, fuck no. Like straight up, no. I'm good. And he's like, dude, please. Like, you're the only person I know with the truck. It's like, it was the last thing he needed. They were moving in that night. And it's daytime at this point. So, I sort of fought it and he's like dude I'll get you a brito like he's like come on man like we're 20 bucks and like we were we're in our 20 so we were like you know giving someone 20 bucks

and buying him dinner and gas and stuff is a lot so I was like damn he really wants this bed and he knew how I felt about that house too so I think there was that sort of in play I was like you know what it's daytime I'm just sort of rationalizing with myself at this point was like maybe I was 16 and I was just being you know a wimp or whatever maybe I should just go revisit this. Maybe it would be cathartic is what I'm thinking. I don't get a burrito on cash, you know, whatever. And I did want to help, you know, my buddy out. So we drove back to the neighborhood. And like I said, it's still daytime. It's probably getting sorts like that. That it's probably five or so maybe. So it's starting to get darker, but not super dark

when we're talking about it. By the time we get to the house, it's getting closer and closer. So I'm like, I want to get in here as soon as I can and out of here. Like I said, the property is a square. There's a gate to get in with like a sort of U-shaped driveway that leads you to the front of the house. James hops out of the car, unlocks the gate. He, you know, starts walking towards the house. I pull up and there's a German shepherd on the porch,

which I feel like is notable just knowing how dogs are because I feel like dogs and animals and like they sort of send weird stuff. So we pull up. I get out. and, you know, the dogs are chilling on the porch, and we get inside the front door, and James is walking ahead of me, obviously, because he's the one who unlocked the house,

and I'm walking behind him. I close the door behind me, and I take maybe like two or three steps towards the couch. That couch is still there. Nothing moved, no new furniture, like in that five. Everything was the same. And I take a few steps. He's ahead of me, and he says,

do you want a Pepsi? And, like, before he even finishes seeing Pepsi, I was here. on the front door, like, clear his day. Just the three loudest knocks I could hear. I stopped and he froze and I just sort of, I like shut down, like almost like panic mode. I'm like a, when it comes like a fight, you know, flight or freeze, I'm always a fight guy. I'm not like tuning my horn.

I'm like some like agro person, but typically I don't really back down or like freeze up. But I froze up. Like I felt like my knees like almost like lock up like you're not turning around. and opening that. So we looked at each other and we were just sort of both like, what? And he walked towards the door. Pretty hastily, I should say to you,

like he was going to open it. I'd be like, who the hell's banging on the door? And he opened it and nobody's there. The German Shepherd is sitting on this porch. Like nothing's there. And I can guarantee that if someone that was at that house wasn't supposed to be there, that dog would have been gnawing on them.

I mean, it was a nice dog to people that knew it. But if you didn't know it, it's barking at you at the fence and stuff. So he's looking out the door, looks around, looks back at me, and I'm like, let's fucking get this over with. So we go up the stairs and, you know, the stairs themselves are just creepy because they go up and then they turn. And then there's like a door at the end of them. And they have like that glass that sort of like makes it sort of blurry. It's like that weird like patterned glass. And so it's just.

Everything could just sort of creep you out when you're walking up there. Because now I'm just like, is this thing, like, is this happening? Like, is this happening again? We opened up the door, go down the hallway to the room where the bed is, and we're grabbing the bed. And as we're grabbing the bed, I hear those footsteps again, like I heard on the actual stairs. I mean, but this time down the hallway. And it's a little bit faster. Like, it's like someone walking down the hall.

Like, not necessarily with haste, but not as soon. slow as the time down the stairs. And we froze up and looked at each other again. And so, like, we didn't even get anything out. He just started screaming. And he goes, ah, and start screaming and starts dragging the mattress. And so I'm pushing with him. And we're running down the hall.

And we just both start screaming. I think at that point, we're both, like, this house is fucking with us. And so we started screaming, like, almost like you do with, like, a bear or, like, a wildcat or something. Like, we thought we were going to be loud. and there was nothing in the hallway. We rounded the corner, there's nothing, but we're just screaming down the hallway. We get to the end of the stairs,

and it's like you can try to maneuver and do that. We push the mattress down the stairs and just let it roll down, knock shit off, whatever, falls down to the end of the staircase. And I start darting down the stairs with him, and we're dragging out, we're throwing it into the bed of the truck. I'm not tying it down. I'm not fucking with any of that.

He locks up the door, and we get in my truck and drive up to the gate. So we have to get out of another gate at this point. And so he starts unlocking the gate. And, you know, as he's unlocking the gate, he sort of stops and looks up. And this house has a door, like French doors on the second story that go out to this balcony that faces out to the street.

And there's curtains on it, but you can see the light glowing. And I should mention it by this point, it was dark. And my dismay it was dark by the time we got out. And there's just light glowing from the second story. And so the brother goes, did we go in my mom's room? And he's saying this and I'm not looking up. I'm not aware of the lights really on. And I was like, what?

And he's like, my mom's light is on. So I look up in the rearview mirror and I turn around in the truck that I'm driving and look out through the back. and the light shuts off as we're both looking at it. And we freaked out. We were like, nope, nope, nope, nope. And he hops in the car. And there's a guy walking his dog, I remember,

and we like peeled out. He probably thought we were robbing the place because it's an easily caseable neighborhood for people that want to rob it, I'm sure. Like people know you got money if you live over there. That guy looked at us. Like we had a mattress in the back and we're peeling out in this truck and we were driving, I mean, blowing through stop signs.

almost in that neighborhood because I was just like, no, I'm good. I'm not sticking around to see what else wants to show itself. And he called his mom on the way back and asked her if she was home. He said to her, who's home? Because he did have a younger sister who was like a preteen at the time, but she wouldn't have been home by herself. They had an even younger brother who was a toddler who there were stories of him talking to stuff in the house, by the way.

He was like two or three and he would talk to the dumb waiter door. apparently, just weird stuff like that. But no one was home. And he, he said, he said, who's home? She said, nobody. I thought you were going there. And he's like, I was there, but who's home? And she goes, nobody. He said, your light just was on and turned off. And she goes, okay, well, nobody's there. And so he hung up and we were quiet, the rest of the drive to his new house. And so we got there. I unloaded it into the house with him. And we were just, sort of quiet for a bit. And that's when he was sort of just like, what the fuck was that?

And I was like, you tell me, like, what the fuck was like? You lived there. You grew up there. And there was a little bit of talk about, like, how there were things that had happened there when they were younger, but they didn't really think much of it. But he had said himself that it had changed, that the feeling had changed, that it seemed a little bit more, like, sinister. There were stories of, like, they would clean up their,

toys and they'd come home and all their toys were out. There was one toy in particular. I forget. They were, it's very, like, it was a very, uh, specific toy that they spoke of that was one that would show up other places in the house. Like, it would be sitting on a window sill or sitting in the bathroom or sitting on the kitchen table in the morning kind of stuff. So these are all stories I'm hearing now, like after we had gone to this house, now I'm starting to hear this stuff. And I'm like, yeah, like full disclosure would have been nice. because, like, that house is sketchy as fuck. Like, that place is haunted.

Like, after hearing things audibly when I knew I wasn't sleeping, that was enough for me to be like, something's trying to make itself known again. So, yeah, I didn't hang around his new house that night. I wanted to get home again, you know? I was just like, maybe I need to stop hanging out with these dudes. And I went home. I mean, I told my parents about it, too.

I mean, and that wasn't really something. I didn't really talk to my parents about much, but I was like, yeah, that house is haunted on Christmas tree lane. That house is fucking haunted. And so I told them about it. And like my dad and mom are like pretty like, yeah, it might be, man. Like straight up. I mean, I wasn't one to really make up these elaborate stories.

I mean, as a kid, yeah, sure. But like as an adult, I think for them it was like, oh, like you saw something. Like, and almost like they didn't want to acknowledge it too. that and that was always my dad's thing was like you know you can't really uh if you give him too much power because he was sort of like religious and stuff but you know it gives them energy and like makes them like more real or like strong or whatever but his stuff was always like demons and you know the devil and stuff like that but um i i like told them about it and i was like yeah i'm good i ended up going to sleep and um when i slept that night i had another really vivid dream of

the house. It was almost like I wasn't in the truck, but almost like I was not floating, I want to say, but just being moved through the dream from the driveway up to the front door. And the dog was on the porch. And I go up to the front door. And again, nothing that I'm choosing to do, it just happened. I just go on the front door and bang the front door. And the door opens. And James answers the door and I'm standing behind him frozen just looking out towards the door but like I'm looking at nothing and I'm there again and I feel it out of my peripheral and I'm getting visible chills right now I feel it out of my peripheral at the staircase again just looking at me and I try not to look at it but I get a glimpse of it just almost like to validate the

that this is what I'm seeing and feeling again. And there it is, just this dark blur again. It was very unsettling. And seeing James looking around out the door and not seeing me, not acknowledging me, and me looking out the door, not seeing me, not acknowledging me. Like I was there as like a specter in myself, you know, was very weird. And that scared me. And so when I woke up, I was like, never.

again. Like I, for a burrito for $20, for $1,000. And it's hard because we live like across maybe one major street, like a neighborhood away from it. So, I mean, we've walked there from our house, not to the house specifically, but to Christmas Street Lane. And when we walk by it, I do not like walking on that side of the street. I don't like being close to it. I don't like looking towards it whatsoever. During Christmas, when it's Christmas tree lane, they won't. weren't decorating it for a while because some people bought it and are trying to renovate it. But if we're walking with the kids, I'm walking with a stroller across the street. And my wife knows.

And she's, you know, she's like, oh, there it is. And I'll be like, no. And we'll walk by it. And, you know, it still gives me that feeling. I think I'm just afraid I'm going to see something. I'm going to see a light turn on or I'm going to see that figure. This past Christmas, there was people actually outside of the house. It must be the people, new people that own it, maybe, but they had, like, people out front.

And they were, you know, they had, like, a bonfire going. And, you know, they were, like, eating snacks and stuff. And people were pulling up to the car and waving. And they had, like, a little, like, ice skate rink. It was, like, the elves from the Rudolph Red Nose Reindeer, like, claymation one. It was, like, those elves, like doing things. So, like, they're decorating it. They have, like, a snowman up on that balcony where,

the balcony lights were, there was a snowman, like inflatable snowman. And my wife was like, oh, look, they decorate it. And I was like, I don't want to fucking look at that. I don't want to, because the snowman's going to turn on me. Like, I don't know. I just, it still just gives me that, that feeling of just dismay and just doom. And that, that feeling that I had in the dreams where it was just like, I felt that pit in my stomach. It happened still when I go by the house. And sometimes, I'm just thinking myself, is it just because I remember these things? And it just, I'm making it more than is. Am I giving it too much power? Or did something actually happen? And I'm just having to acknowledge that I can't

explain it. And that for someone like me is very difficult that I can't explain something. I'm used to being able to explain things or find a way to explain something. And obviously there's those things that, you know, you can't explain that are, you know, no one can explain. But they're sort of like reasonably accepted, but that's hard to accept, you know, that you can go to a house one night for a sleepover and then basically have this weird out-of-body dream and then go there five years later, five or six years later, I think it's five years later, go back and have a more visceral experience outside of your dream and in person is very intense. I almost wonder if I went back there now if I went to sleep, I would have a dream about that house if I was, you know,

because one time is one thing, but two, I feel like that's just, it's weird. That to me is weird. And some people would say, you know, I'm sure they could probably chop it up to a traumatic experience or, you know, whatever else. But, I mean, to have such a vivid, visceral dream is just, it's, I don't know. I've just, I've never had a dream like that in my life. That just made me feel like scared when I woke up. Like, you weren't safe now that you're up.

Like, it's still out in the world. It's not a dream creature or something, you know. All right. Thank you so much to Christian for telling us that story. I'm always really, really interested to hear things like that from a person whose job is already so strange, a job that most people would be terrified to do, or at least with a social. with the paranormal. I mean, he literally works with death every single day.

That being said, it's interesting that this one stuck with him so much and really is sticking with him to this day. I know that he's scared to even drive by this house, even though he has to quite often. That brings us to the end of this episode. This has been The House on Christmas Tree Lane, and you've been listening to Otherworld. Otherworld is executive produced and hosted by myself, Jack Wagner. Our theme song is by Cobra Man. The soundtrack of this episode is by Juice Jackal.

This episode was edited and engineered by Theo Schaefer. Our artwork is by Coltisack Studios. Production help by Nikki Kate Delgado and Haley Pearson. Please show us your support by subscribing, leaving a five-star review, and telling your friends. If you want to hear more episodes of the show, you could sign up to become a patron of Otherworld at patreon.com Our social media is at OtherworldPod.

Thank you to the team at Odyssey, J.D. Crowley, Jenna Weiss-Berner-Marie, Eric Donnelly, Matt Casey, Morric Curran, Josephina Francis, and Hillary Schuff. Follow and listen to Otherworld Now for free on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. And finally, if you or somebody you know has experienced something supernatural, paranormal, or unexplained, you could send to your story at Stories at Otherworldpod.com.