Otherworld - Episode 69: The Valley

Episode Date: February 5, 2024

John wrote in after hearing a specific Otherworld episode, saying that he had experienced something very similar. After being diagnosed with a rare medical condition, he was eventually rushed into emergency surgery which resulted in his heart stopping him having a very unique near-death experience. This episode features music from the band Bonny Doon Want more episodes? For bonus episodes and videos, sign up for the Otherworld Patreon Check out our Merch Follow us on: Instagram, TikTok, Twitter If you have experienced something paranormal or unexplained, email us your story at [e-mail] To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to Otherworld. I'm your host, Jack Wagner. When I first read the description of the story you're about to hear, the person who sent it in said that they were inspired to reach out after hearing a very specific episode of the show. And when I read their story, I was positive. The episode had to be The Fog. It was a recent episode that we put out, and his story was so similar in so many ways.

But when I interviewed him, I was surprised to find out that he's never heard that episode. He was in fact reaching out after hearing an episode called The Burthing Tent, which is generally quite different than the story he wrote to me about in the email. Specifically, in that episode, near the very end, there's a part where multiple people describe visiting a place while astral projecting, a place they describe as a green valley full of tents, filled with thousands of excited people who seem to be waiting for something.

Two of the people I talked to described being in one of the tents and being shown footage on screens of births happening. And one of the people in that episode said that that tent is a place where souls get to experience life and understand it before they either begin or end life. I know this is very trippy. I'm very well aware of this. It's a bizarre thing to say out loud, but that's what the episode is about.

He heard that episode in the description of this place, and he told me that it sounded nearly identical to some place that he's also been to. As you probably guessed, this is a story that involves a near-death experience. Sometimes near-death experiences are abbreviated as NDE's, and these happen to people who, either die and are revived, or come so close to death that they describe the experience of passing

on. This is probably one of my favorite topics, and it's one that occasionally gives me great comfort, especially stories from people who did, in fact, medically die and then come back. It's also a topic that I want to cover a lot more in the future of this show. People with a materialistic view of the world, and the majority of mainstream science believe that when we die, that's it, lights out. When our brain turns off, the power goes out, and it all stops. Because consciousness, the way we understand life, our ego, all of it is a creation of the brain. However, when we do get to hear from that very rare group of people who have died and then come

back, they often say that it was not lights out. In fact, sometimes these people experienced something very profound. They went somewhere else. And sometimes they felt as though weeks or even months or years have gone by, even though they were only gone for a few moments. This episode is from somebody who experienced something like that. And I'm very fascinated in what happened to him after he briefly died and then went into a coma. This is episode 69.

The title is The Valley, and you're listening to Otherworld. Bobby? Yes, it is. At its core, the science, you can't argue with. I'm worried about all of a science. Up in the sky. It's almost frustrating that it's happening. I'm going to die.

I'm going to die. Everybody moves back into the light, even if it takes them a minute. My name's John. I'm 39. I'm from Cape Breton Island. So that's the northeastern tip of Nova Scotia on the east coast of Canada. And I guess back in third year university, I started to have some pretty crazy health stuff start happening. I had like a pretty hopping music career at the time.

I was playing in bands and I toured the country a couple times. and we were Canada famous, like, not, probably not something that, like, people down in the States would ever know about, but we were, like, doing really good for up here. And I was, you know, grinding that out and going to university at the time. I studied computer science and mathematics. So, always a very, always a very science kind of logical kind of guy. I love traveling. I love getting to see the country. When you kind of grow up in a small place, you know, small town,

you know, the chance to get to Toronto or the chance to get to Montreal and see one of these like big cities is always like such a rush. Yeah, I miss it. It's one of those things where I haven't played a show since. I think I played a lot of. in like 2014, opened up for Steve Earl. I'm really into that kind of like, you know, outlaw country kind of stuff.

So it was really wild to have that experience. I've always had kind of some health issues growing up, just minor things, you know, like asthma and allergies and that kind of thing. It kind of started pretty gradual where I started started to have very, a lot of difficulty eating. I would sort of, you know, have a couple of bites of food and I'd be full. And then it kind of progressed from there to where it was very difficult to eat anything.

And then it progressed even further, where it was very difficult to even drink water. I think I maybe developed a little bit of a hesitancy to, you know, go see a doctor at the right time. So I let this thing kind of prolong, probably longer than what I should have. So basically I was home, I think it was Easter break, my third year university, and I hadn't been eaten got probably weeks. having really difficulty drinking, and I think I stopped drinking. I don't know how long that went on, but basically I collapsed. I just pushed this thing as far as I could go, and I fainted in front of my mother.

And basically I woke up in the hospital that day, and the doctors had no idea, you know, what was going on. And so they were started to kind of run through these, I guess the first line. of just, you know, process of elimination kind of thing. And we're like, oh, you know, it's, it must be this thing, you know, acid reflux or something. Like, so take these meds and come see us in a little bit. They didn't do anything. Couldn't even get them to go down, basically.

So I couldn't even drink because I couldn't even drink at this point. And ended up back in the hospital a couple days later. And had to see some specialists. and basically they concluded that I probably had a condition. It's a word I've never heard before that point. It's called Achillesia. So it's basically your esophagus becomes paralyzed in this weird way that doctors still don't really know what the cause is.

They kind of, like they know what's happening to you and basically it's a neurological thing where the nerves that kind of, you know, work everything in there. Basically, when these nerves stop working, the bottom of the esophagus just closes up. So that's basically where I was at. Cape Breton's pretty small. It's very rural. There is like a hospital, but the equipment's not great. the access to more modern stuff isn't great.

So they basically gave me this prognosis that I would need to have this extremely risky surgery to treat this thing, which was rough to take at the time, third year university, and you're kind of, you know, you're looking to just kind of get started in your career within the next couple of years and stuff.

you know, and the prognosis is basically, you know, you're going to have this major, you know, basically the same process as like an open heart surgery, pretty nasty stuff, you know, they kind of, you know, pull the ribs apart and go in. So we, as a family at the moment, sort of decided, like, let's get a second opinion, like, outside of Cape Breton. So we push to try and see doctors in Halifax, which is sort of the capital of Nova Scotia. We managed to kind of push our way in

with a doctor who's basically the head of research at the Dalhousie School of Medicine, which is sort of one of Canada's larger research universities. And he's basically has a bit of a different opinion. He's like, okay, we should, you know, I don't, you know, he doesn't recommend we go straight to the surgery. And he basically recommends that we try a bunch of different other treatments first to see if we can get some functionality back before we go this surgical route. And that kind of starts this like, you know, really long, drawn-out process of kind of hopping between all these different experimental treatments. and, you know, minor procedures and stuff

just to try to get some functionality back. And basically, long story short, is just nothing works. And so that goes on for probably longer than it should have. Years. It was like three or four years. I can't remember. And so basically we exhaust every option. and then we're back at the surgical sort of procedures as being sort of the only route that we can take.

But by this time, the surgery is a little different. So there was actually kind of advancements in this area where they can sort of perform the same procedure, but have it be less invasive. We decide that that's the route we're going to take and then we schedule it. And just because of, it's kind of a smaller province, there's not too many surgeons that are performing the surgery. It's almost another full year is when my surgery date is supposed to be. It was like 11 months or 12 months or something like that. So in this time, again, I'm just declining.

I'm just like getting skinnier and skinnier, weaker and weaker and everything else. And I'm in and out of, you know, the emergency room almost every couple weeks, just because, yeah, just was failing. And so they decide that, like, I can't, I'm not going to survive the full year. So around like the seven-month mark, they are basically like, okay, we need to do this surgery, like this week, basically. So because of that, it gets just slotted in. At the end of a day, just like basically, you know, pushing this, you know, emergency room and an operating room team to work overtime, basically. So on an emergency basis, they basically, you know, slotted this thing in.

And, man, it was such a crazy time. It all, everything kind of stopped for me. just like I obviously couldn't play music. I had to drop out of school temporarily or like put it on hold at least. I just, I didn't know what like the future was going to be like. I didn't know like, you know, because they're telling you how risky, you know, these surgeries are. You know, it's major, major work. And, you know, at first you don't even know if you're going to make it at the other end. You don't know like how strong you're going to be, like what you're going to be capable of right away.

Are some things just over? So it's a lot of just being scared, like being scared about like, you know, is this, are all my plans done? Or can I, you know, manage to, you know, find a way around this? At the same time, I'm just like, I'm kind of wasting away. And so it's a bit of a blur because I was just really unwell and I'm not doing anything other than waiting. And because I can kind of get a little obsessive, like I was, I pretty much convinced myself that something was going to go wrong.

I was really preparing myself for that. And that's basically what happened was a worst case scenario. So it's all a bit of a rush because they say it needs to happen in. immediately. And it basically does. I almost have no time to really like prepare for the moment because it's happening within 24 hours. So I'm supposed to have one more night of sleep, but I can't sleep. And then around noon, because it's going to be at the end of the day. So it was around noon. I went in for, for prep. I go from being myself and having all my belongings on me to wearing these, you know, these robes, basically. And then I sit for a while. I sit for a really long time with these robes and in this kind of like special section of the hospital. And I just kind of prepare myself. I just sit and I wait. No one's allowed.

my family's not there with me at this moment and by myself. I wait for a really long time because I'm just being kind of like slotted into the end of the day. And they come and they get you and there's like two nurses there with you and they're kind of like, they're to kind of like comfort you a little bit. They wheel you into the Oprah operating room and there is a dozen people and they are in there They've got gloves and masks and all the stuff you expect them to have. And all the tools and stuff weren't there. They were actually in the hallway, and they kind of wheel you buy those.

I remember kind of being like, oh, like, that's the stuff they're going to use. So they kind of walk you through and they introduce you at everybody and give you the rundown of what to expect. basically this surgery is supposed to last I think seven or eight hours and they tell you you know in great detail about like what they're about to do and then they kind of start to prep you and they put you out with a shot of something and then also like a gas and I remember given a thumbs up as this like gas as I'm like kind of breathing this gas and they're like you know really breathe in deep and um and we'll see you see you tomorrow basically and then it just it just goes

black that's when I that's when I woke up I was in a that was in a new place but it wasn't like I it wasn't the way like a dream would feel like I like I like I like I like I like I woke up like that's the best way I could put it and it's a very it's a very strange place it's very like pastoral I would say it's a it's a big field undulating field green green grass and it's kind of surrounded by mountains, you know, high mountains, peaks, you know, with snow on the top, you know, something you'd see in like a, some sort of landscape painting and yellow flowers everywhere on the ground, like daffodils, I guess, I don't know, but just, just this very serene place. I'm, I'm there on a camping trip, is the best way I could put it,

with three other people that I had never met before or since. And all I could sort of gather from the experience at the moment was like these were like family members. To this day, I kind of say like wife and kids, but it was just like an understanding that this was like my immediate family. unit. I had a white t-shirt on and just like a white t-shirt and jeans. That's like a, I was never really like a fashion guy, so it was just like that was kind of like me. It was just like a t-shirt and jeans kind of guy. And it was like the same for them, just really plain clothing. I think the, like in my head, the woman had on like a pair of khakis and just like a V-neck kind of like a t-shirt, like just like very normal.

I think we all just kind of had on, you know, a pair of pants and a really plain shirt. Nothing, nothing fancy. If I had any artistic ability, I feel like I could both still draw this scene and I could draw all of these people. It's as clear as any memory would be. I mean, obviously, it's not as clear as a memory as, you know, what I had for breakfast today, but it's like that. It's slotted in my head in that way. There was a woman about my age, I'm assuming.

It was never like, oh, I'm this age. Age wasn't really like talked about. But clearly someone around my age, you know, early late 20s, early 30s kind of thing. Should shoulder length blonde hair, I'd say about like five, six. we were almost identical in height. I'm a little shorter. Like, I'm like five, six. And she was about five, six.

We were about identical height, shoulder-length blonde hair, parted it in the middle. But there was this, like, intense, like familiarity about her. Like, I was familiar with this person. I just, and in that moment, it was like the familiarity was really intense. But it's, like, looking back at it, it's like who was this person? I have no idea. I can't associate her with anybody in my past.

I have this weird feeling sometimes that I'm going to meet this person. But in that moment, it's just like we knew exactly who each other were. But looking back, you know, after the experience, So I still can't place her. And same with the children, the two kids. I think the first thing I remember saying to her was like, it's, you know, like, it's finally, like, it's finally over. Like, we're going to spend all this time together now,

almost as if, like, you know, I was retiring. Like, yeah, it's just like, oh, I'm going to make time, more time for my family now. It was sort of the implication between myself and the woman. And there was two children. There was a daughter that was the youngest, also with blondeish hair, not quite as blonde as the woman.

And there was a boy. They were around the same age, but one was sort of, I think, I think distinctly younger. If I had to put a ballpark, I'd say the boy was probably age 10 and the girl was probably aged 8. The boy had short, dark hair in a very similar, like, haircut that I would have had when I was a child, which was like something that kind of just weirdly stood out.

I was like, oh, you know, his hair is like mine. They just wanted to hear everything I had to say. It started with like in reverse, like me kind of saying what I had been up to with, you know, very recently with all the health stuff. But it was like in the past tense, it was over, you know. It was just like, oh, this is what I was going through this and I went through this. And it just kept kind of going. Like, oh, what did you do before that?

And it got into the music career. and played songs and like, oh, what, you know, what was, what were you up to before that? And kind of worked my way back, like, through talking about high school and how things were. And talked about ex-girlfriends and best friends and just things I was into and books I read and comics I was into. you know, a bit of a nerd, and just kind of working my way back and just unloading. It was just like, I was doing most of the talking. It was like story time to hear about what I had been up to. Just like a real sort of openness to the relationship.

And it was, it was like we were reuniting at least. like after like a really long time. And I just remember a lot of it was sort of like, just telling them like what I had been through. And it was, it went, this experience went on for like, like weeks, maybe even months. It's hard to say because the passage of time wasn't sort of in the way that we would sort of record it or,

or notice it, like the sun never set. Like, there wasn't, like, days. It wasn't like a cycle. It was just this constant state of, like, the scene. It was just this, like, one long day. Like, this one humongous day that lasted for what felt like weeks or maybe months. It's just really hard to kind of say.

and it was, we were, like, camping. There was, like, there was a, there was, like, a trailer, like a pop-up, like, tent trailer almost. Something you'd tow in with a vehicle, but there was no, like, vehicle there. It was just, like, and it was, like, a kind of a traditional campsite. Like, there was, you know, stuff, like, sleeping bags, and there was a fireplace, kind of, like,

and it was just this, like, reunited. moment and sort of like catching them up on what I'd been up to for the last my whole life. And a lot of people say how like, oh, like, you know, life flashes before your eyes before you die kind of thing.

But it wasn't like a flash. But it was me sort of recounting everything. It was just like they always, they just wanted to hear more. You know, I was telling them about playing music and how I like to write songs. and I played music for them in a way that I would never do.

I always felt like it was easier to play in front of a large group of people instead of a small, like, intimate kind of group of people. But it was just like kind of running through stories and playing songs that I had written and right back to me being in elementary school and talking about things that happened and things I regretted and things that stood out for me.

And I was recounting my life, but I was also this like, like a little bit of a better version of myself. You know, it was like my skin was fine. You know, I, especially in the winters, I kind of, I get like, you know, bad skin. My face breaks out and eczema and stuff.

All that stuff wasn't there. That's, like, one thing that, like, stood out for me and still stands out. It's just, like, for that, like, length of time or for that experience, I experienced, like, a different version of who I am. Like, it was obviously me. It was obviously my life. And it was my body. Like, I was myself, I think. but there was no like

it was just like a flawless version of myself I spoke better I always knew the right thing to say there was no sort of hesitation with anything I wasn't I wasn't feeling any anxiety or anything it was just very

it was me but a very open sort of version of myself I guess and that's one thing that stood out because I was just in such rough shape. Like, I looked frail as hell, dude. I was falling apart. And I wasn't that version of myself.

I was back to like a normal healthy weight. And just, yeah, no pain, no nothing. None of my, you know, like smaller conditions were there. Asthma and none of that stuff. You know, my troubles with social anxiety and stuff weren't there. But, you know, going into surgery, I felt like I had the weight of the world on my shoulders. Like, it felt like everything was over. You know, I was pretty down.

Like, you get pretty down when you, you know, deal with major health stuff like that. And I was, I was a wreck, man. And then, like, just this worry, this, like, dread, you know. But, like, recounting all of that, it was like it didn't matter at all. It was just a story. And they just were like happy to hear the story. They weren't like worried for me. They weren't like they weren't being like, oh, that's so awful.

It was just like what else happened? Like it was just like it was so insignificant. And they're not insignificant, but like it just like it didn't matter. It was just something I went through and I wasn't going to have to go through it again. And we were moving on to this like next, you know, chapter where like we were going to be together and it was I was just kind of walking through all these like events that really felt heavy before this but they like they didn't feel heavy that's just the work I had done I had work to do and that was the work I had done good work

like that's what the vibe was almost like I had done a good job like I which is something like I don't really, you know, I kind of struggle with this. Like, I often feel like I haven't done much, right? Like, I let this kind of, like, health stuff kind of really, or not that I let it, but it defined me for a really long time. I struggled with, like, feelings of, like, just kind of, you know, I didn't really accomplish much because I had this, you know, roadblock. But in this moment, it was like I achieved exactly what I was supposed to achieve.

and all of this was exactly what was supposed to happen. And it was just like, congratulations. Like, you did it. Like, that's what the vibe was. All right, we have to take a quick break, but we'll be right back with the rest of this episode. It was almost like a debrief, you know. It was very repetitive in a way,

but it was also just really freeing and kind of like it was just this really relaxed feeling of just like you, You were reuniting with, you know, people that were very close to you, but you hadn't seen for your entire life. I kept asking them when we're going to know. I don't know what I was... In the moment, like, I knew, clearly.

But now I don't. Like, I don't know what I was asking them what we were waiting for. But I kept asking, like, when are we going to know? That's like one of the things that, like, kept coming up and up. And it wasn't like I was, like, worried about it. I just kind of kept saying, like, when do you think we're going to, like, find out? And the answer was always, like, soon. You're going to, like, we're going to know soon.

It's, like, it's fine. But there was this feeling of, like, anticipation, this feeling of, like, waiting. And we were waiting. news for something. It's just, it was this anticipation. I was just really excited to get this news for some reason. And I was like, I was like vibrating with the excitement about getting this news. And I kept asking them. And you're like, are we going to find out soon? Like, what do you think? And it was always just like soon. Like, we're going to know really soon. I don't remember eating. I don't remember going to bed. We were sort of mostly

sitting around like a fire and I can't even really remember if there was a fire it's just like there was a like a place where a where a fire would have been there was a lot of just like sitting

and like holding hands and just kind of like watching and the other thing that really stands out is just this like distinctive like memory of like where I'm waiting for news on something and they

I keep asking them about it. And just talking about how we're going to spend our time in the future. Like a lot of like, oh, you know, we're not going to be apart anymore. You know, we're going to get to be together now. It's sort of like a blur in that way because it was so repetitive. It was just like story time. And then just kind of middling about,

just kind of passing time almost waiting kids would be sort of running around just a lot of like chilling out and I remember there was like other people that were in the space

like that it was this you know massive field and I remember there was other groups of people there, all camping, but like we didn't interact with them. I only interacted with these three people. We never walked over to them. They never walked over to us, just sort of in this space together for a really, really long time. It felt like I was there for at least a month, maybe two months. But this is me

remembering it, you know, in the past, like in the moment, there really wasn't any way to measure it. Other than the fact that, like, I pretty much described word for word my entire three decades of life to these people. That's really the only way that I have to measure the time is just the amount of time that we, like, talked. and the amount of information I shared about myself. And that memory of like sharing that much information, like now in the future, like I need to frame it in like the reference that I have now, like back in, you know, like this experience. But there really wasn't any like, it's like time didn't exist.

Like it's like time wasn't really happening. It was just. a moment where all of this stuff was shared all at once, almost without break, you know, like almost in one sort of continuous stream of experience. I can only describe it in the tools that I have now back in this experience. and I think that's why it stands out is taking a really, really long time. But in the moment, like, it really is just this, like,

one continuous experience, and there's no real marker of the passage of time. It's like going on a vacation to the same town, but, like, splitting up entirely and exploring the region separately, and then coming back together and just recounting everything about what you had just experienced. It felt like we were on very similar paths in a similar area and with a similar goal, but completely separate from one another, and experiencing things on our own.

and then at the end of the day you come back to the hotel room and just let them know everything that you've experienced in that day. Only the day is decades and the area you're

exploring is whatever this is, whatever we're doing right now like whatever life is, whatever this experience is with you know time and age and all this, and you go on this ride separately and have this experience,

and then you meet up at the end of the day and kind of unload this data and kind of share what it was. And then there's clearly something that happens after that is what it felt like, and we were waiting for whatever that was. Yeah. I had at this point, gotten pretty far back through my life. You know, I have this, like, memory of this playground, and the playground had this, like, bridge. Like, I called it the rickety bridge. Everybody in my family called it the playground with the rickety bridge. And that's always where I wanted to go as a kid was this playground with the rickety bridge.

It was, you know, one of those kind of, you know, when you're walking on and it kind of, you know, flows back and forth. Like, I thought that was the funnest thing in the world when I was like a toddler. And it's one of my earliest memories. And I remember telling them about the rickety bridge. And this, like, memory of, like, just like running across this bridge to my mom. Just probably the earliest memory I have in life. and that's the last thing I remember is, like that's the last distinct thing I remember

about this experience is sort of talking about that bridge. And then it, there wasn't like a goodbye anything. It was just, it went from that to being pulled into darkness again and then waking up in the, in the hospital, waking up in this hospital bed. I kind of knew something was wrong right away because it just wasn't how I was expecting to wake up.

There was more tubes than I expected. There was more people in the room than I expected. Essentially due to human error for whatever reason, there was an incident. like there was complications. And an artery was severed during the operation, early on in the operation. And due to how underweight I was at the time and how sort of poor my condition was at the time, my heart stopped.

I flatlined on the operating table. and after, I think, a minute and a half, they were able to regain vital signs. But then the surgery still needs to happen. So this surgery that was supposed to be like six or seven hours ends up being this like 12-hour, you know, major, major thing where it's like they need to stabilize and revive. And in order to do that, they need to kind of like, you know,

they had to induce me into a coma. I spent the next three days in a coma. So I remember waking up into this, like, feeling of like, oh, fuck, like something happened. Like something went wrong along. the way because like my sister and like just like people that I didn't think would like have been there you know I knew like my parents would be there and like I was I had a girlfriend at the time and I expected them to be there but there was just way more people and like way more doctors

and way more nurses and I remember I remember my girlfriend at the time was kind of like Like, it's not Wednesday. It's Friday, I think, or whatever, you know, Saturday, or however many days it was. And I was like, what do you mean? And then it was just kind of a blur of like people talking. And you kind of like, it was almost like a ringing in my ears. Like I couldn't accept it because I was still processing.

this switch that happened. And they were trying to tell me things about like why it's Friday, why it's Friday and why there's all these people here. And I'm trying to process like, where did the people go that I was with? Like, where, where is this? Like, what happened? Like, who are these people? But it's also kind of flooding back too at the same time. Like, it all kind of For a few minutes, it's this swirl. It's just this rush of like, what the hell happened? Who are you? I couldn't remember my name.

It all felt equally real. But everything felt very unfamiliar. It went from being very familiar with these people to being surrounded by people. And, like, I didn't really recognize anybody. I didn't recognize myself even really. I took a second. But I knew that there was like an expectation

that these people were waiting for me to recognize them. And it was just this like panic because it was just like a light switch kind of like went off on one life and came back on on the other. And that's the transition in and out of this is like lights go out on one, lights come up on the other.

I mean it wasn't that smooth as far as like familiarity and memory and stuff. Because I was locked in to this place and then I'm pulled back into this place. Still to this day is just the weirdest thing. It took a while. It took a while to kind of come to. And I kind of remember like panicking a second. And like I was really weak, but I was like trying to like,

I was trying to like pull the IV out of my arm and just like, because I was like, what's going on? Like, why are you, who are these people? Where am I? And people are telling me that, you know, there was complications. And I'm like, complications for what? Like, I think they had to like, I think they actually had to like give me a little bit of like a, like a sedative or I think it was, maybe it was like the pain medication or something. Eventually I kind of like calmed down a little bit. And that's when it kind of sunk in. Like, I was like, oh, right, right. I'm all fucked up.

And I'm in the hospital. And then people had to repeat it a bunch of times that, like, you know, you were, you've been out for a really long time. And it was kind of touch and go there for a second. And I think that's when I start to, like, try to rationalize the experience that, you know. And that's when I start to, like, try to rationalize the experience that, you know. And that's when I. I started to kind of like do the work of like, oh, that was just a dream.

Oh, that was just, even though it didn't feel that way, but that's just who I am. And I just kind of like, man, those were some drugs. That's the conclusion I came to is like, wow, they must have been using some good stuff. That's because that was the only way I could kind of quantify and sort of organize everything. And that's where it stood for the longest time. And then I listened to that episode with Gavis. Abby and David, which was on astral projection, or people's experience with astral projection.

And when I heard David's description in the end of the Burthington episode, he mentions having a conversation with an old man who tells him that all these people are in this scene. And he describes a scene very, very similar to. to what I would describe the scene as. It's a large green field in between two mountain ranges and people tenting, camping, like sort of milling about and tables and all of that.

Like, that's exactly how I would describe it. Groups of people kind of experiencing the same thing. Like in my head, it's just like we were all on some sort of trip. And it kind of spooked me a little bit because, like, for a while, I'd, you know, passed a lot of this off. I spent a lot of time just kind of being like, oh, you know, it's, you know, you're under the influence of all these medications. You're in a coma. You're this, you're that. And, you know, it's nothing and whatever.

But when he said that he spoke to someone who said that people were waiting to move on to the next place, it just kind of rocked me a little bit to the point where I, it just kind of reawakened a lot of things. I've been going over it in my head a lot lately, and I don't know if this was like, everything about the scene seemed very intentional. like it was very like set up to be comforting. And I don't know, I struggle with like, are these people I've met and maybe they're just like their ideal versions of their selves?

And like, and I just don't recognize them as being someone I met? Or if it's just like was part of the experience that was like, tailored for me like to sort of allow me to to sort of go through these events in my life or

are they people I'm supposed to meet? I kind of go back and forth I mean there's still a big part of me that's just wants to explain it away but I find that hard to do sometimes just because of how distinct it is in my memory.

And so I don't know if these are people I've met or if they were just parts of the experience to allow that experience to be the way it was. Were they constructions of my imagination? I don't know. hearing somebody else kind of describe a very similar scene as a weird experience that kind of has brought me back

to thinking about things again as bad as the complications were during the surgery they still completed the work that needed to be done because of it kind of like changing from like a routine thing to a sort of an emergency situation

things are a little rougher. So, like, I still have complications. I still have, like, nerve damage and, you know, I've got, like, numb spots where, like, you know, some of this damage happened and still struggle with, like, some pain from the surgery. I'll probably have, you know, complications for the rest of my life because of it, but it has allowed me to sort of get healthy again.

I've managed to, you know, you know, kind of put my life back together. I have a good job. I have a girlfriend now. I'm just making the best of it is sort of where I'm at right now. Just you never know what's going to happen. You never know how short things can be. You never know. So just live and be as happy as you can. That's where I'm at. it's hard not to think that there's some element of consciousness after an experience like that, like that persists past the medical definition of death. There's still part of me that's like, oh, that's not logical, that's not, you know,

but it's just hard not to come to that conclusion. I've always been sort of very materialistic in a way. way that like this is all just you know evolution and highly advanced you know brains with neurons firing and when death happens that's it's just you know blackness like that that was you know i've always been sort of an atheist and just science and logic and but it's it's it's it's really hard not feel like something continues past that moment where your heart is no longer pumping blood through your body after experiencing something like this. And like hearing people that have had similar experiences, hearing other

people talk about near-death experiences. I've heard similar experiences of people not having a very similar experience to me, but having an experience that closely relates to mine and that it's like a debriefing. Like, um, that there's someone out there that wants to hear the work you did. And so just like hearing similar experiences sort of supports that feeling, I guess. So it does change my outlook a little bit. It really has lessened that fear of what happens. and it has lessened that feeling of like heaviness of like if you're dealing with like strife

and you're dealing with like, you know, whether it's disease or or some other hardship in your life, knowing that or having that belief really kind of takes some of the thud out of that stuff. I think if I was dealing with these complications before having that kind of experience, I think it would really chew me up, you know? Just, you know, feeling like you're, you know, damaged and all that kind of stuff. But I just, I don't really let that kind of take over anymore

because I do kind of like go back. back to that moment and how it felt about me talking about some of the worst things that could happen to somebody or the worst things that have ever happened to me and how insignificant they were and how it was just like part of the plan. It was just part of what you were supposed to go and do that day. Like that's what it felt like. It's just routine things that you think are the end of the world just aren't. And I kind of, I use that a lot. Just, um, feel better about things. I mean, like, you know, life can get tough. Like, the world looks crazy sometimes. Like, it's just something that's in the back of my mind that nothing, none of that

really matters all that much. Thank you so much to John for sharing this story. I had so many questions, thoughts and ideas after hearing this one. And I'm sure a lot of you listening have some as well. I asked John many of them, and of course, he's just as puzzled as me. And he has his own long list of questions. One of the main things I kept coming back to is who is this woman? Who was she? And I know that was something that was really bothering him as well. I mean, I couldn't imagine going through what felt like such a long period of time

with this mysterious person, somebody that feels like your wife, and then all of the sudden being sucked back in to find yourself dating somebody who feels like, almost like a stranger, and then having to forget this person who you don't even know. He told me that he had the impression that it would be her turn to share her life experience after he finished telling her about his.

But he got sucked back into his life back on earth right before he got to the end of his story. This one gives me a lot of comfort, even though it's such a strange story. The thing that really sticks out with me is John's description of how brief and beautiful his entire life felt from that perspective. Maybe there is something bigger out there. Maybe after we die, we do get united with people we knew in this life, maybe even others. And maybe everything from your birth until death, just feels like a roller coaster that you just got off of

and you can't wait to tell these people about. Maybe it feels like you were only away from those people for a few minutes. Personally, I think I like that idea a lot more than lights out. This has been episode 69. The title is The Valley, and you've been listening to Otherworld. Otherworld is executive produced and hosted by myself, Jack Wagner. Our theme song is by Cobra Man.

The soundtrack of this episode is by Juice Jackal. The song you're hearing right now is Saul Light by the band Bonnie Dune. This episode was edited by Theo Krantz and engineered by Theo Schaefer. Our artwork is by Coltisack Studios. Production help by Nikki Kate Delgado and Haley Pearson. Please show us your support by subscribing, leaving a five-star review, and telling your friends. If you want to hear bonus episodes of Otherworld, you could become a patron at patreon.com Our social media is at Otherworld Pod.

Thank you to the team at Odyssey. J.D. Crowley, Jenna Weiss-Bernernery, Eric Donnelly, Matt Casey, Moira Curran, Josephina Francis, and Hillary Schuff. Follow and listen to Otherworld Now for free on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. And finally, if you or somebody you know have experienced something paranormal, supernatural, or unexplained, you could send us to your story at Stories at Otherworldpod.com.